Internal Security Watch

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sanjaykumar
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sanjaykumar » 27 Jan 2021 02:00

They have made it very clear they don’t want to see Hindus in gurdwaras. I ha e no problem with that.

When I see Hindus wearing a kara, I have a good laugh.

I have little problem with Sikhs. Part of it is I don’t have any interest in their religion. I know more about Christianity and Islam. They are a Hindu problem not mine Jamal ji.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby jamwal » 27 Jan 2021 02:07

So what if they have family in armed forces? How does it makes them special, more than Tambis, Kumaonis, Marathas, Garwhalis, Kumaonis, Dogras. Nagas, Laddakhi, Jats, Gujjar, Gorkhas, Rajputs or any Indian citizen of any so called "non-martial" race for that matter?
In 1984 some including one Lt Gen fought alongside terrorists and 1000s of others mutinied. A huge percentage of them still deify khalistani terrorists and deride Hindus every chance they get. Remaining either stay quiet or turn a blind eye.
If supporters of Ram Rahim can be shot at, then why not these idiots?

Problem in general is with people who put them on a pedestal, treat them specially and whitewash their faults.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Ambar » 27 Jan 2021 02:12

On a day like today i wonder if proselytization by evangelicals should be encouraged in Punjab, then again i see what happened to the Hindus in the NE, and i think it will only accelerate the problem. For all the talks of "martial race" of the sikhs it is quite surprising none of them see seem to introspect on why the "martial race" went through a genocide in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

There is yet no news if the terrorists have cleared red fort area, atleast until 10 PM IST they were still there. Given the security situation its not a bad idea to delay the budget session in my opinion.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sanjaykumar » 27 Jan 2021 02:15

I would not get too excited. I have stated before that there is a medievalism at play. Pre-modern societies are tribal societies.

The Indian nation needs to understand this. I can tell you bluntly that I have more in common with an educated ‘Madrasi’ or German, certainly britisher than people from my ancestral village.

But I also know that without an education except religious instruction, I would be as backward as my coreligionists in the village.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby OmkarC » 27 Jan 2021 05:07

There is a clear strategy to target Hindus in their own homeland, if they don't consign themselves to meek dhimmification towards these aggressive anti-national forces. But this is also a chance for us to improve our Hindu "Qaum":

- Get rid of antiquated concept of "Dharmic" brotherhood - Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists - should understand that even in that clique of "Desi" religions, the onus of being "secular" solely falls on the shoulders of Hindus alone. We will be secular anyway, its natural to our culture, they dont need any special treatment due to a few of their ancestors.

- Ditch the idea of "martial races" - any community cannot rest on their past laurels.. sorry to say, even Rajputs, Marathas, etc.. we need to modernize our own outlook and stop feeding the egos of some castes. Jat Sikhs are a giveaway here and took it a bit far with their anti-national behavior, but there are also many egoistic communities across entire India even among Hindus, who have a chip on their shoulder due to their caste/surname. Needless to say they are avowed anti-BJP, anti-RSS minded folk even if they are devout Hindus.

- Continue to focus on the "Viraat" Hindu identity - across caste & region. Hindus, if united, dont need anyone else's support in the entire world. Pro-Hindu actions by govt should increase, more visibly - to financially empower Hindus, maintain their demographies and empower their places of worship.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sanjaykumar » 27 Jan 2021 05:21

The martial race is a matter of religious identity to the Jat Sikh, good luck with that.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby OmkarC » 27 Jan 2021 05:43

^^ good for them. Let them be martial & medieval, they got their 10-second barbaric glee by hoisting their flag over Indian national flag, and in the process sealed their enmity in perpetuity with the rest of the nationalist Indian population for good.

But for them, we are in the age of AI, deep learning and neural links... while they are dinosaurian in their outlook.

If Hindus cannot unite and show these "martial race" fanatics their place, they are bound to be destroyed by those who are more ruthless, united and technologically advanced. Hindus only wanted mutually beneficial coexistence, while others will enslave and colonize these brutes.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Srutayus » 27 Jan 2021 05:55

The martial race is a matter of religious identity to the Jat Sikh, good luck with that.

It is a pity and a sign of low self-esteem that communities rely on tags bestowed by our erstwhile colonial oppressors to hang their identity on; Tags from racist theories that the original bestowers have long discarded, which were designed to further their rule back then.
Like the poster says above, you will quite often see that people who are invested in community identity to seek self-esteem are the ones who tend to be anti-BJP while being Hindu.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Vayutuvan » 27 Jan 2021 06:33

sanjaykumar wrote:I can tell you bluntly that I have more in common with an educated ‘Madrasi’ or German, certainly britisher than people from my ancestral village.


Strange thing is that I feel I have more in common with people from my ancestral village, and folks who were in my grad school - Swiss, German, British, Jewish (American as well as Israeli, Argentinian, Brazilian), Greek, Turkish, Portuguese, Spanish, Austrian, Danish, Finnish, Russian, Chinese, Vietnamese, Burmese, Indonesian, and Taiwanese. (I think I got all of them right). :mrgreen:
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 27 Jan 2021 06:53, edited 1 time in total.

sanjaykumar
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sanjaykumar » 27 Jan 2021 06:37

I would highly recommend going to grad school with the United Nations-it is the best antidote to parochialism, tribalism and self-aggrandisement.

No joke.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby OmkarC » 27 Jan 2021 06:48

Here's a kicker - I am hearing about some new WhatsApp groups inciting hatred among JAINS towards Hindus.. a good friend of mine, Jain from some semi-urban part of North India, tells me that he has been getting a barrage of posts showing how Jain saints have been insulted by Hindu "Mobs", Jain Shopkeepers are being "threatened" by BJP & Hindu goons for not paying up to celebrate Hindu festivals.

Apparently, ever since BJP came to power, life of Jains in India has become "unbearable" due to BJP/RSS "Mobs", these WhatsApp group posts say.. my friend says he isn't influenced, but I think its a matter of time his own progeny will become the new "Sikhs".. after all, till 1900s Murtis of Hindu Gods used to stay in Golden temple, now listen to them pout off nonsense about "idol worship" & insulting Hindu Devi/Devatas in the worst possible guttural language. Its constant pressure - a one-sided, hateful propaganda being relentlessly peddled for decades on & on.

Same rhetoric, I suspect was being peddled to Lingayats of Karnataka when congress wanted to grant them a separate religion status.. they didnt fall for it as BJP had their man as the CM candidate, but its a matter of time for BIFs to repeatedly target them.. Congress also succeeded in creating a new tribal religion in Jharkhand..

I would rather focus all our attention in ensuring the false pride of caste/regional fanatic hindus is destroyed and save the Lingayats & tribals from going into the dark side than worry about Jains or Sikhs or other so-called "Dharmic" folks.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sanjaykumar » 27 Jan 2021 07:03

I agree with you, but have you seen how the book is venerated in gurdwaras?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Vayutuvan » 27 Jan 2021 07:15

sanjaykumar wrote:I would highly recommend going to grad school with the United Nations-it is the best antidote to parochialism, tribalism and self-aggrandisement.

No joke.


I did have all those in my Grad school - CompSci.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby OmkarC » 27 Jan 2021 07:53

sanjaykumar wrote:I agree with you, but have you seen how the book is venerated in gurdwaras?


Which book ?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sanjaykumar » 27 Jan 2021 08:03

The guru granth.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby darshhan » 27 Jan 2021 11:22

OmkarC wrote:There is a clear strategy to target Hindus in their own homeland, if they don't consign themselves to meek dhimmification towards these aggressive anti-national forces. But this is also a chance for us to improve our Hindu "Qaum":

- Get rid of antiquated concept of "Dharmic" brotherhood - Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists - should understand that even in that clique of "Desi" religions, the onus of being "secular" solely falls on the shoulders of Hindus alone. We will be secular anyway, its natural to our culture, they dont need any special treatment due to a few of their ancestors.

- Ditch the idea of "martial races" - any community cannot rest on their past laurels.. sorry to say, even Rajputs, Marathas, etc.. we need to modernize our own outlook and stop feeding the egos of some castes. Jat Sikhs are a giveaway here and took it a bit far with their anti-national behavior, but there are also many egoistic communities across entire India even among Hindus, who have a chip on their shoulder due to their caste/surname. Needless to say they are avowed anti-BJP, anti-RSS minded folk even if they are devout Hindus.

- Continue to focus on the "Viraat" Hindu identity - across caste & region. Hindus, if united, dont need anyone else's support in the entire world. Pro-Hindu actions by govt should increase, more visibly - to financially empower Hindus, maintain their demographies and empower their places of worship.


Wishful thinking

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Srutayus » 27 Jan 2021 11:29

Wishful thinking

Seems like a tall order. Let us all play our roles so it is not so. There are far more channels for us to support and get the message across than ever today.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sachin » 28 Jan 2021 09:13

Republic Day violence | For policemen, a near-death experience
From what ever visuals I saw; the Delhi Police riot gear did not seem to be upto the mark. Most had motor cycle helmets and only a kind of thick cotton pad covering their upper torso and a shield. The R.A.F platoons had more apt body clinging riot armour. Poor riot gear and then the action plan being to remain in a defensive position is not some thing good.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Cyrano » 28 Jan 2021 14:24

The key takeaway for me from that article is not about the police gear but the conscious move to use low levels of force in defensive postures to calm things down rather than adopt aggressive posture that would have led to escalation and would have made both sides equal-equal in violent action.

Now the whole situation looks like the state is doing non-violent resistance while protestors are indulging in violent repression of the rights of farmers all over India to sell freely on the market.

Quite a unique turn of events.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Philip » 28 Jan 2021 17:41

The external puppet- masters of these disturbances must be identified and punished rather than make us turn against our own people. There is evidence that the Pakis/ ISI have been involved in stirring trouble using anti-Indian entities ,many who live happily abroad in Canada,Britain,the US,EU,etc. plotting against India.
The aim of the Sino- Pak JV is to show India as an unstable nation where investment and relocating industries from China would be unwise. We know who undertook the chaos on R- Day, but who set them off? Who lit the fuse? A huge achievement it will be for the Sino- Pak combine if a wedge is driven between the entire Sikh and farming community and the rest of India, which will only help separatist divisive forces of Khalistan. Let us not fall into this trap while we pursue the local perpetrators,their lumpen louts.

China is still in the dock over the Wuhan virus,the originator of the global pandemic.It has refused international investigators to properly investigate at Wuhan the origins of this plague,and why? To obviously cover up its covert biological warfare experiments.
Our aim should be to reward these two entities in deserved manner. Let our covert and overt forces swing into action.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Tanaji » 28 Jan 2021 18:41

Sachin wrote:Republic Day violence | For policemen, a near-death experience
From what ever visuals I saw; the Delhi Police riot gear did not seem to be upto the mark. Most had motor cycle helmets and only a kind of thick cotton pad covering their upper torso and a shield. The R.A.F platoons had more apt body clinging riot armour. Poor riot gear and then the action plan being to remain in a defensive position is not some thing good.


Sachinji, they were being charged by tractors in an attempt to run them down. Any another country and this would be vehicular homicide and the perpetrator shot, especially in the land of milk and honey Kanada.

The police should have had spike strips and containers to stop the tractors at the beginning of the march itself when it was going out of hand.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sanjaykumar » 28 Jan 2021 20:53

Naaw those visuals of the uncle brandishing his sword, of turbaned men charging police with tractors, of hitting female officers are priceless. Khalsa army jai ho.

Leave aside some more donations to your local gurdwara. These are desperate people in need of your support.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby dsreedhar » 28 Jan 2021 22:06

Philip wrote:The external puppet- masters of these disturbances must be identified and punished rather than make us turn against our own people. There is evidence that the Pakis/ ISI have been involved in stirring trouble using anti-Indian entities ,many who live happily abroad in Canada,Britain,the US,EU,etc. plotting against India.


+100.
We all know these Khalistanis in west are also given intellectual space and support openly by leftists and Democrats. Those Indians who are avid Biden supporters should get this admin to act against these Khalistani forces. Arrest a few and put them to task, much of this non-sense will subside. They are just going uncontrolled with Referendum 2020 and all dangerous BS.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby vimal » 28 Jan 2021 22:30

Permanent ban on PIO visas for Kanneda based group members would be a good start.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby mmasand » 28 Jan 2021 22:43

FIR registered in UP against Rajdeep Sardesai, Mrinal Pandey Jaffar Aga, Pareshnath and Ananth Karva, Vinod Jose, editors of Caravan magaine for spreading fake news, and spreading communal violence.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Primus » 29 Jan 2021 00:14

Turdesai should be tarred and feathered and then beaten black and blue on his backside with a bamboo stick. He has long been a troublemaker and fake news peddler. The government knows who all these urban Naxals are - it is time the law was applied to them.

In some ways I do tend to agree with the Congress rule - they spared nobody who came up against them. Ruthlessness is what is needed in India today. We have already paid too big a price over the past seventy years, no more.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sudeepj » 29 Jan 2021 01:36

OmkarC wrote:Here's a kicker - I am hearing about some new WhatsApp groups inciting hatred among JAINS towards Hindus.. a good friend of mine, Jain from some semi-urban part of North India, tells me that he has been getting a barrage of posts showing how Jain saints have been insulted by Hindu "Mobs", Jain Shopkeepers are being "threatened" by BJP & Hindu goons for not paying up to celebrate Hindu festivals.

Apparently, ever since BJP came to power, life of Jains in India has become "unbearable" due to BJP/RSS "Mobs", these WhatsApp group posts say.. my friend says he isn't influenced, but I think its a matter of time his own progeny will become the new "Sikhs".. after all, till 1900s Murtis of Hindu Gods used to stay in Golden temple, now listen to them pout off nonsense about "idol worship" & insulting Hindu Devi/Devatas in the worst possible guttural language. Its constant pressure - a one-sided, hateful propaganda being relentlessly peddled for decades on & on.

....


Yes, there are a few of these handles/groups. But Jains are too intermarried and intermixed among Hindus for this to have any effect. For an issue that is limited to one easily excitable caste with Sikhs, why are you dragging in every Dharmic people you can think of? Drink some cold milk and calm down.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby SRoy » 29 Jan 2021 02:18

^^

Come out of the make believe world of "Dharmic" brotherhood.
There is no such thing.

Notwithstanding your fairyland of "Dharmics", economic and social repercussion will be painful for the self proclaimed "martial race".

They have committed treasons many times.

What they did during Op Bluestar and now, even the much derided Muslim community has not done.

370 or CAA, even there were at least one or two token Muslim with sane voice.

But not even a single prominent personality from the current community in question that has come out to speak.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby m_saini » 29 Jan 2021 02:59

SRoy wrote:
But not even a single prominent personality from the current community in question that has come out to speak.


+1
This often gets overlooked but not one prominent member from sikh community has come out and spoken against what we witnessed. Gone are the days of sane voices like Khushwant singh etc

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Vivek K » 29 Jan 2021 03:55

This whole episode smacks of ulterior motivations - at ChiPak's urging. MSP is used to sell the worst possible crop to the Government. No farmer sells his crop for such a low price - only the rotten one. The government has helped farmers with thousands of incentives at the cost of industrial development - No income tax, free power, loan waivers. What else do they need? Most of the money laundering is done by farmers. Give them cash and they deposit it into their banks and give you checks (black to white).
Every trade does their bit. Engineers make roads bridges, cars, power plants and homes, doctors ensure we stay healthy, scientists fight to keep us at the tech front, soldiers give their lives so that we may be safe. So what do farmers do that is different? Why should they get all this help when they don't contribute to the country's growth through payment of taxes?
Every profession is noble and should be respected but be the same in the eyes of the government and law. Farmers making more than 10 lacs should pay taxes like everyone else.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby darshan » 29 Jan 2021 04:20

One wonders why they don't look at everyone with certain travels in great details.
Gujarat ATS nabs Afghani staying illegally in Ahmedabad for over one and half decade
https://www.deshgujarat.com/2021/01/28/ ... lf-decade/
Anti Terrorist Squad(ATS) of Gujarat Police today nabbed an Afghan national Sardarkhan Pathan, 55, illegally living in Mirzapur area of the city for about one and half decade by managing to have fake documents. The accused has been booked under the Passport and Foreigners Acts. Police has found a Pakistani identity card also from his place in Mirzapur area of Ahmedabad. Pathan lives here with his son. He has travelled to Pakistan on number of occasions, using Indian passport. He is into money lending business.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sudeepj » 29 Jan 2021 04:43

SRoy wrote:^^

Come out of the make believe world of "Dharmic" brotherhood.
There is no such thing.

Notwithstanding your fairyland of "Dharmics", economic and social repercussion will be painful for the self proclaimed "martial race".

They have committed treasons many times.

What they did during Op Bluestar and now, even the much derided Muslim community has not done.

370 or CAA, even there were at least one or two token Muslim with sane voice.

But not even a single prominent personality from the current community in question that has come out to speak.


That Dharma is a universal brotherhood is a fact that shall always stay true, regardless of your confirmations or denials. It is not a Madhab. If you read the Guru's bani, its the highest upanishadic truths, composed in the most accessible language.

Unfortunately, Sikhi establishment was deliberate undermined and derailed by the Brits for their divide and rule politics. After 1857, when Sikh armies were loyal to them (for understandable reasons! companies purabiya soldiers had been fighting them just a few years ago, and there was no love lost between the two soldieries), Brits took a deliberate policy of employing only the most radical preachers in their Sikh regiments, and the Khalsa panth as the 'only true Sikhs'. They recruited soldiers at the age of 15-16, and once their soldiering was done, they were awarded lands in Punjab. In this way, a new religious identity, supported by economic heft, that was at a 180 degree odds with Hindus was stood up from the ground, when in reality, Sikhi is not different from Vedic religion.

Subsequently, Sikhs *were backstabbed* by the Congress leadership when Congress agreed to a partition that resulted in a loss of vast lands and properties in Punjab. Many other political promises made to Sikhs were broken, some for understandable reasons. The whole ugly scene culminated in the cynical manipulation of the Sikh community in the late 70s early 80s to again, create a separatist threat out of nothing. Yes, many Sikh leaders participated in this process with their eyes open. They were a part of this manipulation and are not blameless. Yet, the average Sikh people suffered terribly because of these machinations. When things went out of hand, the state pulled out a djinn, KPS Gill, and once his job was done, sent him back inside the lamp. Again, many Punjabi Hindus also suffered terribly, but numerically and proportionally far fewer in number.

We need to look at violence in the Indian sunbcontinent with a wide angle lens, and when we do, we see horrible violence inflicted upon all dharmic people, inflicted by an anti-dharma/communist/secular state. Akal Takht was attacked, massacres after 84, kar sevaks were murdered with impunity in the ram mandir stirs, communists massacred hindu refugees from Bangladesh in Marichjhapi, our holiest temple sites were denied to us, every caste/clan division was encouraged and exploited till it erupted in violence, tens of thousands of hindu tamils were led up the garden path by 'agencies' and left to the tender mercies of Sinhala armies.. While almost every dharmic people suffered, when it comes to ethnicities, no two ethnicities have suffered as much as Bengalis and Punjabis at the hands of 'secularism', and perhaps no other panth has suffered as much as Sikhs.

I am mad at the idiot nihangs and jats who attacked red fort too, and I wont ask you to not be mad. What they did was sacrilege. Be-adbi. But I will request you, to keep the violent history of our country in mind. Compared to past incidents, this is nothing. Reacting in a rage will only benefit enemies. Every time hindus and Sikhs have a spat, zam zam glasses clink in pindi.

I for one, am very thankful that we have a leadership in Delhi that is keenly familiar with Indian history. Delhi Police and the MHA ensuring that no one died at the hands of police firing was a triumph of the Indian statecraft. There are more trying days ahead, but so far, we are winning. Wait and watch, my feeling is with in 14 days, these idiots will give the excuse the govt. needs to extirpate an entire range of actors permanently from Indian soil.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Vivek K » 29 Jan 2021 04:57

sudeepj wrote:
Subsequently, Sikhs *were backstabbed* by the Congress leadership when Congress agreed to a partition that resulted in a loss of vast lands and properties in Punjab. Many other political promises made to Sikhs were broken, some for understandable reasons. The whole ugly scene culminated in the cynical manipulation of the Sikh community in the late 70s early 80s to again, create a separatist threat out of nothing. Yes, many Sikh leaders participated in this process with their eyes open. They were a part of this manipulation and are not blameless. Yet, the average Sikh people suffered terribly because of these machinations. When things went out of hand, the state pulled out a djinn, KPS Gill, and once his job was done, sent him back inside the lamp. Again, many Punjabi Hindus also suffered terribly, but numerically and proportionally far fewer in number.


Backstabbing by the Congress? Man what a sense of entitlement. Bud we all lost lands and immense fortunes due to the partition but did not declare war on our government. And then you perpetrate another falsehood by saying that Punjabi Hindus suffered but far fewer in number. How did you arrive at that figure? Care to explain? Even the Pakistanis accept that Hindu businesses controlled Lahore (> 85%) and it was expected to be given to India. But was not. Reason - the Pakis were not willing to give up and the choice was to keep fighting or to have an independent state. Seems like you would have preferred India became like Palestine - they also will not accept anything less than 100% demands.

Its like saying - I wanted my father to get us a 50" TV but he did not (probably because he didn't have the money) so I will kill him.

So that is the crux of the problem. For Sikhs today, their loss is more than the loss of others, especially Hindus. And these imagined "backstabbings" continue to come out of the woodwork. First it was - Chandigarh should be given to Punjab, and India has never allowed a Sikh Army Chief. Well India has shown how much it values its Sikh community. There have been Sikh Army Chiefs, Air Chiefs, PM, Chief Election Commissioner, etc. etc. But the demands show the sense of entitlement. Haryana has moved its government apparatus to adjacent Panchkula.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sanjaykumar » 29 Jan 2021 05:29

Perhaps Hindus need to take Sikh protestations at face value.

They basically disregard the deliberate provocations. It really reminds one of a parent indulging a wayward child. Perhaps, those who love the killers of Hindus should be encouraged to find greener pastures in Pakistan, Kaneda or whatever. They should encourage their compatriots to vacate properties given during partition as these are tainted by Hindu motives.

A state that senses a threat from a segment of the population needn't recruit from that segment into its military and police forces. The majority need not provide space for business, education, career advancement to a minority whose complaints are positively tiresome.

This indulgence is an adequate reason to explain why there are no Sikhs condemning what happened in Delhi. They know they can get away with it. However one also needs to understand the levels of intimidation in this community. The beatings, knifings, killings.

At any rate, I am glad the state chose not to employ undue violence in this case, establishing a distinct moral superiority. I do not think Muslims in India would even entertain such an assault on the Red Fort.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sudeepj » 29 Jan 2021 05:59

Vivek K wrote:
sudeepj wrote:
Subsequently, Sikhs *were backstabbed* by the Congress leadership when Congress agreed to a partition that resulted in a loss of vast lands and properties in Punjab. Many other political promises made to Sikhs were broken, some for understandable reasons. The whole ugly scene culminated in the cynical manipulation of the Sikh community in the late 70s early 80s to again, create a separatist threat out of nothing. Yes, many Sikh leaders participated in this process with their eyes open. They were a part of this manipulation and are not blameless. Yet, the average Sikh people suffered terribly because of these machinations. When things went out of hand, the state pulled out a djinn, KPS Gill, and once his job was done, sent him back inside the lamp. Again, many Punjabi Hindus also suffered terribly, but numerically and proportionally far fewer in number.


Backstabbing by the Congress? Man what a sense of entitlement. Bud we all lost lands and immense fortunes due to the partition but did not declare war on our government. And then you perpetrate another falsehood by saying that Punjabi Hindus suffered but far fewer in number. How did you arrive at that figure? Care to explain? Even the Pakistanis accept that Hindu businesses controlled Lahore (> 85%) and it was expected to be given to India. But was not. Reason - the Pakis were not willing to give up and the choice was to keep fighting or to have an independent state. Seems like you would have preferred India became like Palestine - they also will not accept anything less than 100% demands.


If you dont react to Congress backstabbing you, that's your problem, not that of the Sikhs. They reacted in the way they know. Perhaps you are too angry to read clearly, but I thought the reference to Sikhs suffering far more than Hindus was about the 80s violence. Do you disagree that far more Sikhs died in that episode? And proportionately the number was far fewer on the Hindu side, it was easier for Hindu society to recover and find its bearings.

Its like saying - I wanted my father to get us a 50" TV but he did not (probably because he didn't have the money) so I will kill him.


May be you think that way.

So that is the crux of the problem. For Sikhs today, their loss is more than the loss of others, especially Hindus. And these imagined "backstabbings" continue to come out of the woodwork. First it was - Chandigarh should be given to Punjab, and India has never allowed a Sikh Army Chief. Well India has shown how much it values its Sikh community. There have been Sikh Army Chiefs, Air Chiefs, PM, Chief Election Commissioner, etc. etc. But the demands show the sense of entitlement. Haryana has moved its government apparatus to adjacent Panchkula.


Yes, this is a problem. Sikhs dont see the violence from their side and dont feel the need to acknowledge it, dont feel the need to apologize for it, see it as justified even. On the other hand, we have people sucking on Congress propaganda leading up to Bluestar who cheer for it as if it was some great victory won by the Indian Army! Till the time Sikhs see Bluestar as a Hindu attack on Sikhs, till the time Hindus see these random insurrections as Sikh attacks on Hindus, and not as handiwork of an anti-dharmic state pitting one dharmic community against the other, this problem will continue. Are you not aware how it was Congress that propped up Bhindranwale and Longowal? Are you not aware how he was repeatedly arrested, only to be let lose again, so his 'image' would rise compared to moderate Akalis? If you are not, please listen to this interview of a former Sikh RAW officer or read his book.



Even Mark Tully's book, that was basically an apologia for Mrs Gandhi, acknowledged these facts. Why shouldnt then, Sikhs feel betrayed and backstabbed?

Aditya_V
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Aditya_V » 29 Jan 2021 07:06

sudeepj wrote:
Unfortunately, Sikhi establishment was deliberate undermined and derailed by the Brits for their divide and rule politics. After 1857, when Sikh armies were loyal to them (for understandable reasons! companies purabiya soldiers had been fighting them just a few years ago, and there was no love lost between the two soldieries), Brits took a deliberate policy of employing only the most radical preachers in their Sikh regiments, and the Khalsa panth as the 'only true Sikhs'. They recruited soldiers at the age of 15-16, and once their soldiering was done, they were awarded lands in Punjab. In this way, a new religious identity, supported by economic heft, that was at a 180 degree odds with Hindus was stood up from the ground, when in reality, Sikhi is not different from Vedic religion.

Subsequently, Sikhs *were backstabbed* by the Congress leadership when Congress agreed to a partition that resulted in a loss of vast lands and properties in Punjab. Many other political promises made to Sikhs were broken, some for understandable reasons. The whole ugly scene culminated in the cynical manipulation of the Sikh community in the late 70s early 80s to again, create a separatist threat out of nothing. Yes, many Sikh leaders participated in this process with their eyes open. They were a part of this manipulation and are not blameless. Yet, the average Sikh people suffered terribly because of these machinations. When things went out of hand, the state pulled out a djinn, KPS Gill, and once his job was done, sent him back inside the lamp. Again, many Punjabi Hindus also suffered terribly, but numerically and proportionally far fewer in number.

.


This is the crux of the problem as well climbing on the wrong tree, the True culprits here are Pakjabis and the British, but the Khaslistanis are nurtured by these2 plus Canada, funny any hint of working against these Khalistanis and EU Government comes down heavily against individuals- just like the soo called Australian farmer who died in the Tractor accident.

We must accept for long term solution there must be a Khalistan starting 35KM West of Amritsar and include holy Sikh cities of Lahore, Tauba Tek Singh etc. Those who eat meat other than Jatka meat must leave this land.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Philip » 29 Jan 2021 07:57

I've often said that despite our huge expenditure on security,cops,CRPF,RAF,etc.,etc.,we seem to be manpower intensive rather than tech intensive. Thousands of cops can be outnumbered by tens of thousands or lakhs of protesters.
That thousands of tractors,etc. were waiting to enter the capital was known for 2 months! Surely helos,drones,whatever would've alerted the cops to the enormity of the situ. When migrants walked back home,they were sprayed with water.Where did the water cannons disappear to? The invasion of the Red Fort,a fort that too ,done so easily,is inexplicable. The silver lining is that we had no Jallianwallah Bagh firing ,mentioned on a channel,what the puppet masters would've wanted,which would've been catastrophic. Huge credit to the police who preferred to take the stick rather than dish it out. I was impressed with the calm manner a top cop showed at the IPO point. However,a complete review of anti-riot tactics needs to be done and whatever eqpt. is needed must be acquired. New Delhi,the capital, subject to so many protests and agits., requires a better security masterplan to deal with such events.
Last edited by Philip on 29 Jan 2021 09:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby vimal » 29 Jan 2021 08:12

Why stop an enemy whose walking towards his defeat.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby krishna_krishna » 29 Jan 2021 08:40

Guys I have been on this forum since '06 days it is sad that some posts on this thread have either come to maligning Sikhs or some portraying them as victims and historical context of their anti-india/anti-hindu stance and justifying how they behave are direct result of this context. I disagree with both of these narratives.

Guys leave this for a side, try to think a) who benefits from such BIF anti-india movement. b) Where has the support originated from c) what is the larger picture or long term effect of these.

a) I believe Porkistan/Massa/kanada , ookkay all set to benefit from this.

b) Where did the support originate from : massa land via sheltering such SFJ goons look that guy pannu ever since his dream of 2020 referendum went into crash by COVID, he has been on overdrive to do something spectacular to justify his relevance to his master and show that their is still enough fire to burn whole India. Probably loaded with funding he could not spend as referendum 2020 climax did not go as planned.

The plan was and has been alienate Sikhs of India via increasing cessation movement, (I believe next movement will be in Deep South either Tamil / all three southern most states).

Showing sympathy in foreign political circles MP from ookay, Kanada, and some ooeeesss senators. This is out in out seeayyeyeeah modus operandi.

Kartarpur sahib corridor, showing special support and asylum to numerous such people in massa land has been going on for many years (How do I know , I come in contact with many ushc vakils in certain state who just do asylum and common theme in the affidavit at court BJP/RSS threatened them yada yada).


c) Long term plan is balkanization of India, : Punjab , sindh , Gujarat , Maratha the song has Punjab as first place is due to its importance as cradle of saptasindhu , geography and immense contribution of all from this land (including Sikhs, dogras and hindus).

Think guys it will sow seeds of separation, alienate more people from Sikh community divide from hindu. Sikhism was created to protect dharma still today Sikhs celebrate deepavali with same fervor in India, Canada and US with same pomp as hindus. If you visit any temple in US /Canada on Mahashivratri day I can challenges you you won't find a single temple where there is no Sikhs to give jal abhishekam to lord shiva.They will always be there on that day. The first word of Guru when he came from Cave was "ek Omkar" . ie. one om. The more we talk such things more separated we become and then where does this end ? Why Gujjus ? Why Bengalis ? Why Marathas ? Remember there have been many attempts to show that vegetarian gujjus vs. meat eating Bengalis yada yada.


The need of the hour is unity and show that we criticize anyone and everyone who disrespects tricolor and not one community . They are our own too.
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Having said above I have also seen how more and radicalization has been going on especially in ooeesss and kanada , not even that even in India. This is result of specific forces invoking Sikh pride and showing hindus in poor light. They are been groomed in a way to show their importance and how rest of India is nothing even though the lad lives in Kanada/ooeess they are propped about so called martial superiority and how we are better without India and we will take our land and go separate ways. If you tell them that hey look you have a new country now Khalistan and go live there , not a single one will leave their Mercedez , bmw and Cadillac and try to go to this promised land. It never will and how does so these foreign citizens get right to protest/fund/support against India. I at least know three families who went remote working in COVID And decided to visit India over thanksgiving holidays and went to join these protest (all Itvyt folks, massa citizens from at least 5 years and all extended families living in massa land). The only person who died in these riots was 24 year kid returned from Australia, now think.

I have been also aware that in Army too there is lot of backlash as more and more recruitment has started from other states, with Chandigarh gang exposed by Gen V. K Singh to expose their plans to tune succession has put their plans to end. So they are squeezed here too and rightly so.

Drugs have been a big issue too , no one is paying heed to the problem. The young person just sees one hope to escape from this hell to foreign land, get rich and come back with vengeance agains evil yindoos who made their life hell by taking away all the benefits that they could have had. This is the mind set we are against and yes that is the Jatt Sikhs who control all these. but does that mean that we shoo them away ?

On top of this biggest soul harvesting, conversions program is run in Punjab now connect the dots.
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Need of the hour is unity and making Sikhs around you understand your point and talk as families/brothers do. The fabric of the country will depend on how each of us treat each other. If we are able to convince good Sikhs around us that we are not against them but select few they will understand and will kick black sheeps among them out. I know someone said many generals did mutiny after 84 but I also know a name of KPS gill and others who drove this mad dogs out of panjab for good. There is a reason by GOI even after so many provocations did not use excessive force on that day and no single bullet was fired even after grave risk to police people may claim that we are meek (yada , yada) but I argue there is an indian way and which government took and now after this whatever harsh steps it taks will be dharmic. Snake has lifted hood again with porki support lets kill two snakes with one stone.

Philip
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Philip » 29 Jan 2021 09:19

Good points KK.Yes,the drug menace in Punjab is a Paki plot to destabilise the state well knowing its strategic importance to India from geographic, economic, military aspects in particular.
In the 1980s when the Khalistani problem was at its height,I told a foreign VVIP when asked about it,that it would be resolved and that the Pakis were using it to divert attention from their real goal,Kashmir.And so it was.The Pakis are now doing the reverse.Suffering setbacks in Kashmir after Art.370 was dumped,they are now stoking the Punjab Khalistani embers while we were engrossed in Kashmir.

I have an idea for the govt. which will immediately take the wind out of the farmers agit.and counter the regional aspect of the current protests.
Unilaterally declare a 2 yr. suspension of the farm laws,as it is already willing to do so. Don't wait for these farmers to approve of. Get the SC to initiate the talks with whichever farmer's body is willing from whichever state too.Splits have already taken place. Get farmers bodies from each state to give their viewpoints on the laws.2 years are available to hammer out mods. to suit each state The arrears for cane are 12K cr. as one gent said in UP. Armed with an all-India mandate the GOI will be able to dissolve the dispute piece by piece.

While this is going on,a full-court press against the Pakis ( military,covert and overt) and Chinese interests ( dpl. and economic). Baluchistan,Sindh and the Afghan rebels must be fncouraged to thd hilt,nothing less than the breakup of Pak as we did in '71,40 years ago must be our mission,pursued with relentless focussed zeal.


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