Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

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A_Gupta
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 06 Jan 2018 05:43

Did you know that {PS: a total of} 18 skeletons were recovered from Rakhigarhi in by April 2016?
I had not known till today.
Amarujala: https://www.amarujala.com/photo-gallery ... pa-culture

PS: http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/haryan ... 21923.html

PPS: Seems to me that Tony Joseph in The Hindu was unaware of all this and still thought the skeletons from 2014 were being analyzed.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 06 Jan 2018 06:22

Here is proof that Aryans invaded. Genetic evidence is not necessary. Look at the image on the right
1. There are cannon balls near the skull proving that there was war.
2. A striped blue weapon was used to strike and kill and then placed in the grave
3. The skeleton is of a person who is laughing in a Dravidian way
4. The skeleton has no nose as recorded as "anas" in the Vedas
5. No natural burial will look like this. The person was stiff with fear establishing that violence took place
6. Will provide linguistic evidence also in my next post

Image

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby disha » 06 Jan 2018 09:13

^ The skeleton is Short-Dark and Rice Eating as well. Further the skin colour of the skeleton shows that it was a dravidian dark color.

Also there are no wheels. And neither any horses.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Vayutuvan » 06 Jan 2018 13:07

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ some public course-work here: https://quizlet.com/77587591/coalescenc ... ash-cards/
"Coalescence Theory and the Genealogy of Genes"

Good sight - good info.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Nilesh Oak » 06 Jan 2018 15:16

^^ Thank you Rudradev ji. This was educational and brings me closer to the specific hypothesis I am exploring! :)

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 06 Jan 2018 15:21

Nilesh sir, please accept my compliments for the great work you are doing.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby JE Menon » 06 Jan 2018 15:23

>>3. The skeleton is of a person who is laughing in a Dravidian way
>>4. The skeleton has no nose as recorded as "anas" in the Vedas

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby csaurabh » 06 Jan 2018 19:20

Did IVC people bury their dead or burn them?
Can we reconcile it to Vedic literature?

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 06 Jan 2018 19:29

csaurabh wrote:Did IVC people bury their dead or burn them?
Can we reconcile it to Vedic literature?

Vedas do mention burial. But I repeat- personally I think IVC is too far away from Vedic culture to find too much of that - like trying to find Vedic culture in Bengaluru - it exists, in pockets onlee..

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Prem Kumar » 06 Jan 2018 19:50

Shiv: you forgot the ribs! The skeleton had 34 ribs, proving that he was a Dravidian. There was 1 rib missing, which proves that it belongs to a man and proves Christianity as well. The Garden of Eden might have been in Rakhigiri and Jesus came back to visit his ancestral land, while teaching Yoga on the side

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 06 Jan 2018 19:54

Recent updates on the history of rice cultivation in India
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... 96DF6C33C#
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0316300322

A related news-article:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 539240.cms
...radiocarbon dating to provide the first absolute dates for Indus multi-cropping: 2890-2630 BC for millets and winter pulses, 2580-2460 BC for horsegram, and 2430-2140 BC for rice.


Basically, at least in the Saraswati region, during the early to late Harappan period, there is a gradual transition from use of wild rice to use of domesticated rice (dryland varieties) and then the wetland varieties arrived from China or the east around 2000 BC.

In the Ganga region, rice may have a much earlier history.

Per K.T Achaya "A Historical Dictionary of Indian Food", rice is not mentioned in the Rg Veda and is first mentioned in the Yajur Veda.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 06 Jan 2018 20:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 06 Jan 2018 20:01

If the Rg Veda was old in 2000 BC, then, some consequences are (my speculation):
1. At least some languages are more stable than the historical linguists are comfortable with.
2. If we assume Rg Vedic verses reflect material culture and geography, then they extend from when the Saraswati was flowing, but before widespread use of rice, through the horse age, and to the dawn of the iron age. I suppose one has to assume it is sections of the Rg Veda that are very ancient, and some are relative recent, and the time span of ages is thousands of years.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 06 Jan 2018 20:10

shiv wrote:
csaurabh wrote:Did IVC people bury their dead or burn them?
Can we reconcile it to Vedic literature?

Vedas do mention burial. But I repeat- personally I think IVC is too far away from Vedic culture to find too much of that - like trying to find Vedic culture in Bengaluru - it exists, in pockets onlee..


Is this in the Sathapatha Brahmana a description of a burial ceremony?
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbr/sbe44/sbe44113.htm

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 06 Jan 2018 20:19

A_Gupta wrote:
shiv wrote:Vedas do mention burial. But I repeat- personally I think IVC is too far away from Vedic culture to find too much of that - like trying to find Vedic culture in Bengaluru - it exists, in pockets onlee..


Is this in the Sathapatha Brahmana a description of a burial ceremony?
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbr/sbe44/sbe44113.htm

I am no Veda expert but I have read that the Shatapatha Brahmana texts have been derived verbatim from the Vedas. To me the quoted text appears to be Rig Veda 10:18 - i. Mandala (book) 10, Sukta ("verse") 18

And yes those relate to afuneral - specifically a burial. This is also the Sukta which has been mistranslated by Griffiths and then further corrupted into a blatant lie by David Anthony to connect with Sinthashta horse graves. It featured in my Indology conference talk

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 06 Jan 2018 20:41

These notes of a 2010 talk by Dr. Vasant Shinde (who is the archaeologist behind Rakhigarhi aDNA) are worth a read.
http://www.tifr.res.in/~aset/talk062510_blog.html

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 06 Jan 2018 21:25

shiv wrote:I am no Veda expert but I have read that the Shatapatha Brahmana texts have been derived verbatim from the Vedas. To me the quoted text appears to be Rig Veda 10:18 - i. Mandala (book) 10, Sukta ("verse") 18

And yes those relate to afuneral - specifically a burial. This is also the Sukta which has been mistranslated by Griffiths and then further corrupted into a blatant lie by David Anthony to connect with Sinthashta horse graves. It featured in my Indology conference talk


Well, they can't have it both ways - say the Vedic people are derived from Steppe people who bury their dead, and then turn around and say - but Harappan people who bury their dead can't be Vedic.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 06 Jan 2018 21:39

^^ :D
Do you know what I think? Personal view - as always. There has been a fight against the 1500-1000 BC AIT dates of the Vedas and because SarSi (Saraswati-Sindhu) civilization was the first solid proof against AIT. So there has been a concerted effort to find Vedas/Veda evidence in Harappa. But it appears that new and emerging findings are (I am certain) going to push Vedas back to 8000 BC or earlier - so Harappa has been left with only vestiges of Vedic era life.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 06 Jan 2018 21:40

A_Gupta wrote:If the Rg Veda was old in 2000 BC, then, some consequences are (my speculation):
1. At least some languages are more stable than the historical linguists are comfortable with.
2. If we assume Rg Vedic verses reflect material culture and geography, then they extend from when the Saraswati was flowing, but before widespread use of rice, through the horse age, and to the dawn of the iron age. I suppose one has to assume it is sections of the Rg Veda that are very ancient, and some are relative recent, and the time span of ages is thousands of years.

Arun - I am betting on Rg Veda 8000 BC. Believe it or not

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 06 Jan 2018 21:44

Prem Kumar wrote:Shiv: you forgot the ribs! The skeleton had 34 ribs, proving that he was a Dravidian. There was 1 rib missing, which proves that it belongs to a man and proves Christianity as well. The Garden of Eden might have been in Rakhigiri and Jesus came back to visit his ancestral land, while teaching Yoga on the side

Also proves that he was sub-human and rightly discriminated against by Ayr-yans because humans have 24 ribs...But Church will save him by removing ribs - 1 for random woman, 4 for 4 wives, 4 for 4 witnesses and one for pleasure

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Pulikeshi » 06 Jan 2018 22:25

shiv wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:If the Rg Veda was old in 2000 BC, then, some consequences are (my speculation):
1. At least some languages are more stable than the historical linguists are comfortable with.
2. If we assume Rg Vedic verses reflect material culture and geography, then they extend from when the Saraswati was flowing, but before widespread use of rice, through the horse age, and to the dawn of the iron age. I suppose one has to assume it is sections of the Rg Veda that are very ancient, and some are relative recent, and the time span of ages is thousands of years.

Arun - I am betting on Rg Veda 8000 BC. Believe it or not


While I can sympathize with the intent... I'd again caution us against sticking a date of any kind to the Rg.
It is better to say the preceptors of the Vedic age lived from 10 KBCE to about 5 KBCE.

Side note: Can we atleast on BRF stick to BCE and CE?
People have dates, that which is eternal - Sanathana does not!
The Rg itself is undatable as it is eternal. My 2 naya paisa!

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Vayutuvan » 06 Jan 2018 23:15

BCE instead of BC and CE instead of AD is a good suggestion. I ran into this problem while editing an article on wikipedia about sami people of Finland. I changed BC to BCE; then they were reversed by one fellow who seems to be contributing a lot to the page saying that it is annoying. I pointed out to him that that is the new standard in American K-12 schools and beyond and also linked the wikipedia page on why BCE/CE. He agreed that BC and AD are in fact Christian centric but said he still wants to keep the BC/AD stuff. I let it stand. It is on his talk page and will be there as long as wikipedia exists.

As Pulikeshi says, a little caution should be exercised. Giving an interval is better. Contingent truth and all that (material implication like if [set of asusmptions are true] then [the date is within the interval ...] will put a bound on the earliest date. Otherwise, some motivated folks are sure to use it in a way that shows indigenous researchers in a bad light, at least in the perception of the public at large.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Prem » 07 Jan 2018 04:56

shiv wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:Shiv: you forgot the ribs! The skeleton had 34 ribs, proving that he was a Dravidian. There was 1 rib missing, which proves that it belongs to a man and proves Christianity as well. The Garden of Eden might have been in Rakhigiri and Jesus came back to visit his ancestral land, while teaching Yoga on the side

Also proves that he was sub-human and rightly discriminated against by Ayr-yans because humans have 24 ribs...But Church will save him by removing ribs - 1 for random woman, 4 for 4 wives, 4 for 4 witnesses and one for pleasure


True to their nature,i think these Punjabi skeletons are laughing that they are proof of ultimate BC joke on BC Erawalas.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby krisna » 07 Jan 2018 06:15

https://rajivmalhotra.com/wp-content/up ... Final_.pdf
It is also one of the oldest recorded living traditions of Hindu civilization with about 8000 years of records and hence stands as a testament to its antiquity


Above is regarding Kumbh Mela.
RM says the akharas have astronomical events recorded from over 8000 years. He has met them and discussed about the issues at stake.
This might interest some of the brfites here.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 07 Jan 2018 07:45

Pulikeshi wrote:
While I can sympathize with the intent... I'd again caution us against sticking a date of any kind to the Rg.
It is better to say the preceptors of the Vedic age lived from 10 KBCE to about 5 KBCE.

Side note: Can we atleast on BRF stick to BCE and CE?
People have dates, that which is eternal - Sanathana does not!
The Rg itself is undatable as it is eternal. My 2 naya paisa!

2 issues:

I found BCE to be as "obfuscative" as BC, if I may concoct a word. I prefer "10,000 years ago" to 8000 BC or 10,000 BCE, but I sometimes have an ulterior motive in using BC as I did in the above post

That said I think I need I need to be indulged in my creation of a semantic argument for putting a date of at least 10,000 ybp on the Rg Veda. While the content is eternal - it was most likely pronounced first by human lips and handed down starting at least 10,000 ybp. There is a very strong "political" reason for using this kind of argument - especially when my date (and argument) are not aimed solely at AITians. While I can (and I am certain Pulikeshi can) argue and debate my way out of an AIT curve ball that asks uncomfortable questions about "eternal" and "undatable" things with snide remarks - most Indians who genuinely want to make an argument against AIT will be trapped and pushed against a wall by a battery of AITians if they insist on "eternal and undatable".

My advice to them is to say "The sounds of the Rig Veda are eternal and undatable but evidence is now pointing to the fact that human lips first started voicing those eternal sounds over 10,000 years ago - in other words 8000 years Before Christ"

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Pulikeshi » 07 Jan 2018 12:49

shiv wrote:My advice to them is to say "The sounds of the Rig Veda are eternal and undatable but evidence is now pointing to the fact that human lips first started voicing those eternal sounds over 10,000 years ago - in other words 8000 years Before Christ"


No issues with using ybp - still suggest using a range for the people who were the original preceptors.
12 kybp to 7 kybp is when these people lived for example... with justification for the upper and lower limits.
This technique lets you defend claims more meaningfully as it approaches the boundaries with evidence.

The side note: The AIT fight is a side note in history. It must be fought. However, in a broader sense it is less relevant...
The civilization requires the defense of Veda as - Sanathana/Anaadi (eternal), Apourusheya (not of human or divine authors), and Svah Pramana (primary evidence not reliant on any other - like a fundamental force of nature). This is one of the reasons it was orally transmitted...

Why is this critical? Without above principle there is no Hinduism. This is what separates Hinduism from other religions - the others are all based on human or divine authors, are written in an imperfect language that is retransmitted and translated, cannot make the epistemological claim and defend it for being self evident primary evidence and therefore non-eternal.

All other religions per Hinduism is just really some person's opinion! A mere belief! :shock: :mrgreen:
(All this sarva dharma samabhav I call bs on as most are not dharma anyway...)

Dilution of this principle occurs when we repeat a date for Rg Veda. It is critical to apply the date only to humans.
For Christ sake can we not use him for politics and history :mrgreen:

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 07 Jan 2018 14:30

Pulikeshi wrote:No issues with using ybp - still suggest using a range for the people who were the original preceptors.
12 kybp to 7 kybp is when these people lived for example... with justification for the upper and lower limits.
This technique lets you defend claims more meaningfully as it approaches the boundaries with evidence.

The choice of 10,000 ybp was not a random choice. It is based on some evidence. It is easily supportable and usable against AITians because it assumes that the Rig Veda mentions a Saraswati flowing to the sea. AITians, having already used the Rig Veda with literal meanings as a historical (and geographical) document can hardly argue against my using the Rig Veda similarly. My argument is not supportable ONLY if one claims that the shruti has no historical/geographical value. But then, if it has no such utility - all the AIT arguments that use "historical data" from the rig Veda are equally demolished by that one fact alone. No grave. No horse eating. No dasyu. No pur. No nothing. Since AITians are not going to give that up I see it as fair game to return their compliment with a blow against their theories. Rhetoric - but necessary in this game.

In fact I place Manusmriti between 9,000 and 6000 ybp again with reason based on some research papers. I do not place Manusmriti after 5000 BC based on some other evidence. Perhaps the Manusmriti evidence is on stronger grounds than the Rig Veda evidence - but that hardly makes a difference.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby peter » 07 Jan 2018 16:00

shiv wrote:....
That said I think I need I need to be indulged in my creation of a semantic argument for putting a date of at least 10,000 ybp on the Rg Veda. ....

Shatpath Brahman refers to Krittikas rising exactly in the east. SB Dixit and others have shown this event to be in the range 2925 +/- 100 BCE. This text is attributed to Yajnavalkaya, the Vedic sage, a disciple of Vaishampayana, who is an important narrator of the Mahabharata.

This shows the traditional date of Kaliyuga and Mahabharata War in 3067 BC is consistent with the Vedic Corpus.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 07 Jan 2018 20:35

shiv wrote: Since AITians are not going to give that up I see it as fair game to return their compliment with a blow against their theories. Rhetoric - but necessary in this game.


Unfortunately so. The popular theory needs to be dislodged from those of the archaeogeneticists so that they interpret their findings without constantly trying to fit it into a 3500 ybp Aryan invasion/incursion/migration theory. Otherwise it will be Garbage In, Garbage Out.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Prem Kumar » 07 Jan 2018 23:43

One eye opener for me (among several others) from the SI-3 conference was from Dr. Priyadarshi's lecture. We tend to focus on human migration & aDNA. But equally important are animal DNAs, because they were domesticated by humans and travel with them during migrations.

He gave several examples of how the Indian domesticated dog, domestic cow, bull etc all made it to Europe, Afghanistan, Africa etc. Genetic studies are quite conclusive about this! How come there are no Central Asian horse genes in India, while Indian domestic cow genes are found in Europe? This in itself is a clinching piece of evidence in favor of Out-of-India theory

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Rudradev » 07 Jan 2018 23:58

Prem Kumar ji, very interesting take by Dr Priyadarshi. Any link?

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Nilesh Oak » 08 Jan 2018 02:37

Prem Kumar wrote:One eye opener for me (among several others) from the SI-3 conference was from Dr. Priyadarshi's lecture. We tend to focus on human migration & aDNA. But equally important are animal DNAs, because they were domesticated by humans and travel with them during migrations.

He gave several examples of how the Indian domesticated dog, domestic cow, bull etc all made it to Europe, Afghanistan, Africa etc. Genetic studies are quite conclusive about this! How come there are no Central Asian horse genes in India, while Indian domestic cow genes are found in Europe? This in itself is a clinching piece of evidence in favor of Out-of-India theory

PK,

I don't recall if P Priyadarshi mentioned domestic mouse. In any case, domestic mouse began its journey from India and went to all parts of the world. The time estimate for the initiation of this migration is around 25K - 35 K years ago. I briefly referred to it in my plenary speech on 'What falsifies AIT"

--
Rudradev ji

Grab a copy of his book (Priyadarshi) if you can (library is best bet) - The first civilization of the world.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Nilesh Oak » 08 Jan 2018 02:40

^^^^ When Shiv ji talks of 10,000 ybp or 8000 BCE or 8000 BC.. he is indeed talking of the range. What he is saying is 8000 BCE (or 8000 BC) or earlier into unknown antiquity. Of course, there are many ways one can place an upper limit, but it is neither clearly known nor relevant for AIT discourse.


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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby RoyG » 08 Jan 2018 10:47

TWO MOONS

5,000-year old rock art found in India is likely the oldest depiction of a supernova

Akshat Rathi

January 07, 2018 Quartz India

Imagine looking up at the sky one night and finding two moons. If it happened in 2017, Twitter would be abuzz with people posting photos. News channels would get astronomers to explain what’s happening, and they’d say it’s not a supernatural phenomenon but likely an exploding star—a supernova. Within hours, telescopes would have nailed down the exact star that suffered the dreadful fate. And then, likely for weeks to come, you’d be able to enjoy the presence of a very, very, very bright star in the sky.

Now imagine seeing the same sight 5,000 years ago. Nobody in your tribe has any clue why there’s suddenly an extra super-bright object in the night sky. There are no records, written or pictorial, to consult. However, curious as you and your tribemates might be, you aren’t going to risk asking someone in the rival tribe nearby. All you could do is wonder about the oddity—and perhaps try to represent it through your favorite artistic medium.

Scientists say this is likely what happened back in 3600 BC. Astrophysicist Mayank Vahia and his colleagues at the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research believe a rock painting found in what is today part of the Kashmir region of south Asia is the oldest record of a supernova and likely the oldest sky chart ever drawn. The artwork shows two bright objects in the sky, with figures of animals and humans underneath. A study detailing the discovery has been published in the Indian Journal of History of Science (pdf). (Vahia also spoke about the discovery for the podcast The Intersection.)

colorcorrected (6)
Photograph of stone carving from Burzahom. (IGCNA)
Vahia began the study by taking many steps backwards. Rock art is difficult to date with precision, but Vahia had a solid starting point. The rock was buried in a wall (though hidden from view of residents) of a house that had already been dated to around 2100 BC. The oldest known settlement in the region was founded around 4100 BC. So the rock art is likely to have been made sometime between those two millennia—then inadvertently used to construct a new dwelling.

Next, Vahia needed to understand why someone would draw two bright objects in the sky. It couldn’t be two suns, because we have and have always had only one. It couldn’t be the sun and the moon, because although it’s possible to see both solar objects in the sky at the same time, a full moon can never appear so close to the sun. (From Earth, we see the moon as “full” when it’s on the direct opposite side the planet as the sun.) The only remaining explanation, Vahia figured, was a supernova: if one exploded relatively nearby our solar system (hundreds or few thousands of light years away), it could shine as bright as the sun or the moon.

Of course, this explanation only makes sense if there actually was a supernova bright enough to have been visible on Earth between 4100 BC and 2100 BC. The good news was that Vahia had a way to accurately identify many of supernovas of the past thousands of years.

When a supernova explodes, it releases a lot of energy. The energy we can see with the naked eye—that is, visible light—is only a small fraction of what the explosion produces. The supernova continues to emit high-intensity X-rays for hundreds and thousands of years. Astronomers have been able to track down these supernova remnants and calculate when and how big the stellar explosion would have likely been.

With all constraints set, the database gave Vahia just one option: supernova HB9. It seemed to have all the right characteristics. It exploded around 3600 BC, and it’s about 2,600 light years away. At the time of its explosion, it would have appeared to Earthlings as a glowing ball (though not perfectly round) and just a little less bright than a full moon.

There’s even better proof to be found when you look more closely at the artwork. The figures underneath the supernova and the moon on the rock painting aren’t part of a hunting scene, as it might seem at first glance. Instead, Vahia’s analysis shows they neatly fit the constellations that surrounded the supernova: The man with the bow and arrow on the left is Orion; the stag is Taurus; the man on the right holding a spear is part of Pisces; and the dog is the Andromeda galaxy. In other words, the rock art is likely a sky chart and, if it is, it would be the oldest sky chart on record.

colorcorrected (7)
(Vahiya et al)
There is just one problem. Working with the Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts, Vahia has studied many more pieces of rock art from the region, but couldn’t find any other sky charts. Though the rock art analyzed here fits quite well with what the sky might have looked like back then, it could also be just a big coincidence. To prove it’s not, Vahia would need a second example. If the people in the region drew a star chart once, they must have drawn it many more times for other kinds of celestial events (such as comets passing or meteor showers).

That is why, on its own, Vahia’s rock painting isn’t enough to definitively prove itself to be the oldest human-made star chart and supernova record. Still, Vahia is confident that as more rock art emerges from the region, he will find the additional evidence needed to solidify the claim.


https://qz.com/1171320/5000-year-old-ro ... supernova/

Prem Kumar
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Prem Kumar » 08 Jan 2018 17:23

Rudradev: I don't have a link. He presented a bunch of slides via video-conference. All SI-3 lectures were video recorded. So hopefully, we will see them all in YouTube and/or Facebook soon

Nilesh: I don't recall if he mentioned the mouse or not. But I think he also mentioned the Indian pig

Ah-ha: Google to the rescue. Here is a link to an article from Dr. Priyadarshi where he talks about domestic Indian pig, cow, mouse etc traveling to rest of the world. He says he has mentioned all this in his book that Nilesh referred to above

https://aryaninvasionmyth.wordpress.com/tag/priyadarshi/

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 08 Jan 2018 17:45

http://prekshaa.in/myth-kalabhras-showe ... lNgGEvat0I
Kalabhras is part of the Dravidian myth. In this context, the above should be read.

wig
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby wig » 09 Jan 2018 19:38

http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/kash ... 71676.html

Oldest supernova found in 5,000-year-old rock carving in Kashmir
excerpts
In an interesting find, Indian astrophysicists have unearthed a nearly 5,000-year-old rock carving in Kashmir which, they believe, is the oldest record of supernova and sky chart found in human history.
The rock carving -- known to be the earliest form of human expression -- found in Burzahama region in Kashmir is on an irregular stone slab with a size of about 48 cm by 27 cm.

The figure shows two bright objects in the sky with rays of light coming out of them and a hunter spearing an animal below the first object.
There is another animal to the left of the hunter drawn above the hunter's spear, representing a hunting scene. The two objects are a pair of bright stars at the local zenith at the beginning of the hunting season.
The two objects cannot be Sun and Moon since, with such proximity to the Sun, the Moon would be in a partial phase around the new and hence not very bright, said researchers led by Hrishikesh Joglekar from the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research (TIFR) in Mumbai.
"The stone drawing is a complete sky chart of the night on which the Supernova was first observed by unknown observers around 4,500 BC," Joglekar said in a statement on Tuesday.


link to the TIFR paper
http://www.tifr.res.in/~archaeo/papers/ ... ashmir.pdf

RoyG
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby RoyG » 09 Jan 2018 21:13

There’s even better proof to be found when you look more closely at the artwork. The figures underneath the supernova and the moon on the rock painting aren’t part of a hunting scene, as it might seem at first glance. Instead, Vahia’s analysis shows they neatly fit the constellations that surrounded the supernova: The man with the bow and arrow on the left is Orion; the stag is Taurus; the man on the right holding a spear is part of Pisces; and the dog is the Andromeda galaxy. In other words, the rock art is likely a sky chart and, if it is, it would be the oldest sky chart on record.


https://qz.com/1171320/5000-year-old-ro ... supernova/

If we look at the artwork we may be able to trace it back to a particular style and ascertain the culture of origin. No doubt very sophisticated in the sense that they seem to have embedded a local narrative within the star chart to make it accessible to future generations.

The article itself has to translate the picture to egyption/greek to make it accessible to us.

syam
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby syam » 09 Jan 2018 21:29

This travel video is surprisingly very informative,

syam
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby syam » 10 Jan 2018 15:14

@shiv sir, can you tell me how any one can read Cuneiform script. I am going through some material. They have so many pictures of these scripts.

Wonder how it is possible to read without knowing the language of the speaker. Can we learn arabic or chinese just by looking at script?


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