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Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

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Nilesh Oak
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Nilesh Oak » 10 Oct 2017 06:14

ramana wrote:Nilesh If you have 30+ projects you are like DRDO. Need to focus or frame out the smaller projects to a band of followers.

Yes to both.

In first case, me learning new craft.. so uphill. Do let me know if you know a sharp and smart experienced scriptwriter who is very much indic at his/her heart and enthusiastic enough to do this for the heck of it. Of course, there could be (more than likely) good rewards at the end. But this is totally new territory for me so don't want to promise anything. Bottomline.. the person should be willing to put in sweat equity for the sake of Dharma and trust that 'Dharmo rakshati rakshatiah." BTW, I have met few, run into few, spend 2+ months with couple of them.. but realized that no success was going to happen and thus decided to cut my losses and close the chapter. They had experience but were totally incapable of comprehending both macro and micro objectives of the project.


In second case, things are working out ok.. slowly but surely. Actually I am delegating/framing out to band of followers and they are good.. in fact in some cases masters in their own right. Still lot of hand holding.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 10 Oct 2017 17:46

periaswamy wrote:
a_gupta: Further, in some cases, one had to understand just how the observation was made. One may have to reproduce a calculation in the way it was originally made, not how one might do it today.


The reference to the arundhati and vasishta stars was an observations in the Mahabharata did not involve any calculations-- just the relative positions of the stars. How does that involve any astronomical calculations?


At a minimum, it requires knowing which stars Arundhati and Vasishta refer to. That needs knowledge of Indian texts.

PS: The proper motions of stars may be significant.
https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments ... in_motion/

Also:
Alcor is moving -16.04 ± 0.11 miliarcseconds/year towards the north and 120.21 ± 0.13 miliarcseconds/year east if we saw them in the horizon.
Mizar is moving -25.97 ± 1.40 miliarcseconds/year towards the north and 119.01 ± 1.71 miliarcseconds/year east if we saw them in the horizon.
https://www.universeguide.com/star/alcor
https://www.universeguide.com/star/mizar

OK, over 7000 years, the change in the Alcor-Mizar separation (north south) would be of the order of an arc minute.
The overall position in the sky (north-south) would have changed by the order of 3 arc minutes.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Nilesh Oak » 10 Oct 2017 18:40

A_Gupta wrote:
periaswamy wrote:
The reference to the arundhati and vasishta stars was an observations in the Mahabharata did not involve any calculations-- just the relative positions of the stars. How does that involve any astronomical calculations?


At a minimum, it requires knowing which stars Arundhati and Vasishta refer to. That needs knowledge of Indian texts.

PS: The proper motions of stars may be significant.
https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments ... in_motion/

Also:
Alcor is moving -16.04 ± 0.11 miliarcseconds/year towards the north and 120.21 ± 0.13 miliarcseconds/year east if we saw them in the horizon.
Mizar is moving -25.97 ± 1.40 miliarcseconds/year towards the north and 119.01 ± 1.71 miliarcseconds/year east if we saw them in the horizon.
https://www.universeguide.com/star/alcor
https://www.universeguide.com/star/mizar

OK, over 7000 years, the change in the Alcor-Mizar separation (north south) would be of the order of an arc minute.
The overall position in the sky (north-south) would have changed by the order of 3 arc minutes.


A Gupta ji

If you go back to your original comment...

a_gupta: Further, in some cases, one had to understand just how the observation was made. One may have to reproduce a calculation in the way it was originally made, not how one might do it today.


The important point to realize is that "There is no calculation to reproduce in the way it was originally made". It is a visual observation.
--
If someone is theorizing that these positions were back calculated in Gupta period (pun intended.. but this speculative nonsense of epics being severely interpolated during Gupta period is being claimed in social media, of course without even a tinge of evidence to support it), then of course, what you are stating ("One may have to reproduce a calculation in the way it was originally made, not how one might do it today.") indeed comes into the picture.

Of course, that would (should) very much excite DIO folks. In reality, if they care is different subject.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Nilesh Oak » 10 Oct 2017 18:46

BTW....

Also:
Alcor is moving -16.04 ± 0.11 miliarcseconds/year towards the north and 120.21 ± 0.13 miliarcseconds/year east if we saw them in the horizon.
Mizar is moving -25.97 ± 1.40 miliarcseconds/year towards the north and 119.01 ± 1.71 miliarcseconds/year east if we saw them in the horizon.
https://www.universeguide.com/star/alcor
https://www.universeguide.com/star/mizar

The net movement of both stars is to the South-East (with respect to say ecliptic north pole), and with Mizar about 60% faster than Arundhati in the south direction.

This was indeed the reason AV observation - Arundhati walking ahead of Vasishtha is the unique instance (only during 11091 BCE - 4508 BCE) of antiquity.

This is because as one goes backward, in antiquity, through another round of precession of earth's axis, Arundhati would not have appeared to walk ahead of Vasishtha.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 10 Oct 2017 20:56

Nilesh Oak wrote:BTW....

This was indeed the reason AV observation - Arundhati walking ahead of Vasishtha is the unique instance (only during 11091 BCE - 4508 BCE) of antiquity.

This is because as one goes backward, in antiquity, through another round of precession of earth's axis, Arundhati would not have appeared to walk ahead of Vasishtha.


What was the angular separation of Arundhati-Vasishtha around 4500 BCE?

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby vikasdangi » 10 Oct 2017 21:16

Note that even these genetic lines far predate Kurgan peoples who leave Archeological evidence only from 4000 BC with classical migration as late as 2000 BC. Per AIT, Kurgans from 2000BC to about 500BC completely replaced entire European lineages, swamped North India and also produced completely different religious structures, wrote Veda's, wrote Zoroastrian texts, and technologies in one fell swoop. They also then proceeded to depopulate Central Asia to such an extent that there is almost no trace of R1a1a left in Central Asia at the place of supposed birth. Every single European language and many many lines besides are present in India. AIT claims that all the lines present in India just died out elsewhere. It is a sign of how little imagination these people have.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Nilesh Oak » 10 Oct 2017 23:11

A_Gupta wrote:
Nilesh Oak wrote:BTW....

This was indeed the reason AV observation - Arundhati walking ahead of Vasishtha is the unique instance (only during 11091 BCE - 4508 BCE) of antiquity.

This is because as one goes backward, in antiquity, through another round of precession of earth's axis, Arundhati would not have appeared to walk ahead of Vasishtha.


What was the angular separation of Arundhati-Vasishtha around 4500 BCE?

Don't know.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 11 Oct 2017 06:11

By my calculation, simply extrapolating the current proper motions backward in time, the angular separation of Arundhati and Vasishtha 6,500 years ago was pretty much what it is today (11.4 minutes back then vs 11.8 minutes today). Imperceptible.
Which is a good thing. :)

A nicer thing would have been for the angular separation to have increased perceptibly as we go back 6,500 years.

The Arundhati (Alcor) - Vasishtha (Mizar) system is quite remarkable by telescope. The Mizar system is actually made of two binary systems (4 stars) and Alcor itself is a binary. The Alcor system is by current measurement gravitationally bound to Mizar system with an orbital period of around 750,000 years (which is why I feel confident in simply extrapolating back 6500 years).

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observin ... d03252015/

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby UlanBatori » 16 Oct 2017 04:42

AoA!

I need some serious info: A list of Brophejars (any rank) in North America, S. America, Oirope, Phar East, Australia, Africa whom you guys would accept as reasonably like-minded as in **not** biss-ant commie-paki. Purpose: Evil 6th coujin wants to see if they will contribute beer-review baber to a Jirga on Vedas. For example, Broph. Juluri qualifies. Can't think of many others any more. Younger Generation seems to be 99.9999% spaghetti-spine onlee.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby UlanBatori » 16 Oct 2017 21:42

Gee! You'd think this dhaga had been taken over by Mullah KumbhaKarna. Here's something to wake ppl up:
Prof. Narahari Achar's videos on how MBW ****MUST** have happened in 3067 BCE.


I note that there is no published paper, just a lot of yak-yak and Majik Videos.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Nilesh Oak » 17 Oct 2017 01:25

UlanBatori wrote:Gee! You'd think this dhaga had been taken over by Mullah KumbhaKarna. Here's something to wake ppl up:
Prof. Narahari Achar's videos on how MBW ****MUST** have happened in 3067 BCE.


I note that there is no published paper, just a lot of yak-yak and Majik Videos.

:) :lol:

Prof. Achar has published this work, in peer reviewed journals, conference proceedings etc. multiple times since 1999. What is interesting is that no reviewers could identify utter illogical and unscientific nature of his claims.

Not sure if this says more of Prof. Achar's sophistication or inability of "peer" reviewers in detecting it.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby UlanBatori » 17 Oct 2017 07:44

Please see my post above. Some of the experts here should please consider the possibility of being able to write a 1-page abstract and 8-page paper with clear references. If you don't get your work into such shape, how can we propagate it properly?

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby UlanBatori » 17 Oct 2017 07:46

AoA shivullah! By now you should have recovered from EyeEyeTee conference. How about a vijit to Gleat Satanistan? Put in a paper pls?

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 17 Oct 2017 08:45

UlanBatori wrote:AoA shivullah! By now you should have recovered from EyeEyeTee conference. How about a vijit to Gleat Satanistan? Put in a paper pls?

I have a couple of ready papers, refs and all - but I can answer for sure only in 2 weeks time because one may (or may not) get selected.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Oct 2017 06:41

Jirga-e-Vedas is WAVES 2018.Date is given wrong: It eej Aug. 2-5 onlee.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby periaswamy » 25 Oct 2017 03:42

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/taj-mahal-controversy-sangeet-som-blot-remark-bjp-yogi-adityanath-mughal-empire-4903344/

For example, the people who composed and recited the Rig Veda for centuries were a beef-eating, horse-sacrificing lot. Medieval Hindu rulers desecrated one another’s temples and idols (a practice which inspired similar behaviour among Muslim rulers after they arrived in India).


Just of topical interest, re: the clout of the AIT crowd. genocide-glorifying POS "academic" Audrey Truschke continues her ongoing pretence as "expert on sooth asian history" and is being given ample space by the "Indian" media. 3500 year old vedas and "horse sacrifice" thrown around as fact very casually -- another new product of the BS-producing factory of "Indology academics" and student of chief charlatan Sheldon Pollock.

Apparently, all the idol breaking behavior of islamist kings was just mimic-ing the behavior of Hindu kings. This is being repeated from this farticle

https://scroll.in/article/767065/war-trophies-when-hindu-kings-raided-temples-and-abducted-idols

I am pretty sure she is completely aware of Islamic aversion to idol worship as the motivator for their destruction of temples, as displayed by the Taliban. But pretends that it was learned behavior from Indian hindu kings.

Indian history does not belong to the modern nation state of India


She clearly thinks she is too clever by half.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 25 Oct 2017 06:49

Sorry OT
hahahahahahahahaha
Image

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby JE Menon » 25 Oct 2017 10:40

Truschke too will be doniggered...

Some of us remember when Christine Fair, on Twitter, recounted an episode where she was invited to a party at the Doniger residence during her university days, and she went with her 9 year old (IIRC) nephew. It turned out, however, that the party was not quite a family friendly one in the sense that draft beer was being served from a keg where the tap was designed as a penis/scrotum...

It also turns out that Doniger had a punchbowl full of dildos at her bar at home - all in all, not the picture of scholarly rectitude that she presents on air. Fair had photographs, which she uploaded on Twitter. I have seen them, but did not have the foresight to screenshot and/or download at the time. The photos were removed by Fair (I presume) fairly quickly, perhaps under some sort of legal threat (who knows). But some of the texts remained...

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Gyan » 25 Oct 2017 21:01

Church ran a huge & massive campaign to destroy temples of all native & ancient religions between 300AD to 500AD. RoP simply carried over from Christianity in this regard. RoP was just a militant & barbaric arm of RoL perhaps launched to topple Persian Empire.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby periaswamy » 28 Oct 2017 20:42



Now Christian missionary Max Mueller is a master of Indian vedas once again. Max Mueller Bhavan needs to be renamed, so that the charlatan can be forgotten by Indians.

"There is nothing wrong with foreigners interpreting native cultures" is now the excuse for misinterpreting Indian writings based on a half-assed understanding of sanskrit. "Foreigners should be able to interpret the cultures of other people" -- this is to justify the theologists in the west misinterpreting vedas and Indian texts any way they wish.

But this is a false argument, because the real problem here is that the Max Muellers, Wendy Donigers, and Audrey Trushckes and Sheldon Pollocks will not engage with people from the very cultures that they are pretending to understand.

Of course, as Audrey Truschke repeatedly defends her BS, you can only engage with these western "vedic scholars" if you attend an american university where they teach their "indology" Bulls**t. Nice circular argument. Indian sepoys like the ones working the US State dept.(Tanvi Madan) and american think tanks (Sadanand Dhume) are pushing this line as a group. This is happening at the same time minorities in the US are starting to question this kind of arrogant cultural appropriation by the white christians.


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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Prem » 02 Nov 2017 08:52

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... paign=show
ASI approves excavation at site of Mahabharata’s ‘house of lac'

MEERUT: After years of requests by archaeologists and local historians, the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) has finally approved the excavation of what locals believe is the site of the 'Lakshagriha', the house of lac which features in an important incident in the Mahabharata.
The site is located in Barnawa area of Baghpat district.Retired ASI superintending archaeologist, (excavation) KK Sharma said, "Lakshagriha plays a significant part in the Mahabharata. The Kauravas had built the palace out of lac and planned to burn the Pandavas alive, but the brothers escaped through a tunnel.The structure was located in what is now Baghpat, at the site called Barnawa. In fact, Barnawa is the twisted name of Varnavrat, one of the five villages that the Pandavas had demanded from the Kauravas to settle in after their exile."
Speaking to TOI, director (excavation) of ASI Jitender Nath said, "After a thorough study of the proposal we have given licence to two ASI authorities, Institute of Archaeology in Red Fort, Delhi, and our excavation branch, to jointly conduct the excavation."Asked about the religious significance of the site, Dr SK Manjul, director, Institute of Archaeology, said, "It will not be appropriate to say anything on the religious aspect of this site as of now. We chose this site primarily because of its proximity to other important sites like Chandayan and Sinauli. In Sinauli, excavations had revealed an important Harappan-period burial site. We had recovered skeletons and pottery in large quantities in 2005. Similarly, a copper crown along with carnelian beads was found in Chandayan village in 2014."The crown was found by local archaeologist Amit Rai Jain and the find had been reported by TOI. Though not much remains at the site, its most significant part is the tunnel inside the mound, which the Pandavas may have used to make their escape.Krishan Kant Sharma, associate professor, department of history, Multani Mal PG College Modinagar and secretary of Culture & History Association, "No one has ever ventured too deep into the tunnel as it has several turns. But maybe now this excavation will map its length."

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Gyan » 02 Nov 2017 21:49

Gyan wrote:Church ran a huge & massive campaign to destroy temples of all native & ancient religions between 300AD to 500AD. RoP simply carried over from Christianity in this regard. RoP was just a militant & barbaric arm of RoL perhaps launched to topple Persian Empire.


I was reading some blogs about a theory that there are practically no surviving original manuscripts of Greek Philosophers. The theory goes on to say that after almost complete destruction of European Pagan Knowledge base, some Nestorian & Jesuits Christians saved some libraries in Middle East (after dark ages) and started translating some Persian & Arabic works into Greek. These Persian & Arabic works were in turn based on Sanskrit works. Lot of these translations were reworked and attributed to ancient Greeks to create to myth of Ancient intellectual & academic standing of Europe. So the conclusion is that Old Greek philosphers and scientists may be largely a back dated myth like perhaps Jesus.

The point is I lost the blog links, can someone out me in right direction? Google is not helping.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby krisna » 03 Nov 2017 02:26

Edward pococke India in Greece

Don't know if it is useful but a book by Edward Pococke about India in Greece written 2 centuries ago.
It claims that lot of Greece words names places have Sanskrit root words etc. Indians had good interaction with them etc etc.
India is the mother of the greek civilisation sort of .

of course westerners refuse to acknowledge it as it will debunk all their claims easily.

His books original have been lost. some say by the british others say church/Vatican whatever.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 03 Nov 2017 02:41

https://books.google.com/books?id=Qd41A ... &q&f=false

krisna wrote:Edward pococke India in Greece

Don't know if it is useful but a book by Edward Pococke about India in Greece written 2 centuries ago.
It claims that lot of Greece words names places have Sanskrit root words etc. Indians had good interaction with them etc etc.
India is the mother of the greek civilisation sort of .

of course westerners refuse to acknowledge it as it will debunk all their claims easily.

His books original have been lost. some say by the british others say church/Vatican whatever.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Gyan » 04 Nov 2017 09:56

It's good addition to my reading list. There is strong opinion that some Indian religious texts were back dated around 500AD. This is being tackled by Indian Scholars like Nilesh Oak. My limited contribution is to add that if we assume Civilization began at Ice Age Maximum ie 20,000 BC then everything falls into place but at that time Europe was under Ice, so Europeans don't want Civilization to begin till Ice Age end ie 10,000 BC.

The point of my question was, what's is the Original source of proof of existence of Greek Scholars? What's the oldest manuscripts? How old are copies? Who wrote copies? Who found those copies? Was most of Greek copies written in 1500 AD by Nestorian Christians/Jesuits and attributed to vague ancient Greek or Roman names?

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby UlanBatori » 05 Nov 2017 00:59

How old is the Angkor Wat temple? Is the 12th century dating credible or was it much older?

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Nilesh Oak » 06 Nov 2017 16:46

My informal chat/interview with Vastu-shastra team with deep interests in connections of Vastu-shastra with calendars and astronomy

https://youtu.be/iMV3FEiCjCI

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 11 Nov 2017 03:36

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11 ... s-by-boat/

For decades, students were taught that the first people in the Americas were a group called the Clovis who walked over the Bering land bridge about 13,500 years ago.

"In a dramatic intellectual turnabout, most archaeologists and other scholars now believe that the earliest Americans followed Pacific Rim shorelines from northeast Asia to Beringia and the Americas."

The pre-Clovis people traveled along a now-drowned coastline, submerged after the last of the ice-age glaciers melted. New techniques in marine archaeology, ranging from ROVs to underwater lasers, are helping scientists explore ancient submerged villages. A team even turned up a 14,500-year-old campsite in Florida in a blackwater sinkhole last year.
...
....
Rick and his colleagues write that the big question now is when pre-Clovis people actually arrived in the Americas. They suggest the arrival could be as early as 20,000 years ago on the verdant kelp highway. Other researchers, however, say people could have arrived during a temperate period about 130,000 years ago

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Nilesh Oak » 12 Nov 2017 23:25

A_Gupta wrote:https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/majority-of-scientists-now-agree-that-humans-came-to-the-americas-by-boat/

For decades, students were taught that the first people in the Americas were a group called the Clovis who walked over the Bering land bridge about 13,500 years ago.

"In a dramatic intellectual turnabout, most archaeologists and other scholars now believe that the earliest Americans followed Pacific Rim shorelines from northeast Asia to Beringia and the Americas."

The pre-Clovis people traveled along a now-drowned coastline, submerged after the last of the ice-age glaciers melted. New techniques in marine archaeology, ranging from ROVs to underwater lasers, are helping scientists explore ancient submerged villages. A team even turned up a 14,500-year-old campsite in Florida in a blackwater sinkhole last year.
...
....
Rick and his colleagues write that the big question now is when pre-Clovis people actually arrived in the Americas. They suggest the arrival could be as early as 20,000 years ago on the verdant kelp highway. Other researchers, however, say people could have arrived during a temperate period about 130,000 years ago


A Gupta ji

Thank you
--
BRF members,

Can anyone post the link to PDF?

Appreciate the help,

Nilesh


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