Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 25 Mar 2018 19:25

This is from 2014:
https://anthropology.net/2014/11/07/kos ... -european/
I wonder what the current state of this research is. As you can see, it throws doubt on the Yamnaya invasion of Europe.

European genetic ancestry used to seem straightforward and in general is now understood as an admixture of three sources; indigenous European hunter-gatherers from 42,00 to 45,000 ago, Middle Easterners from the agricultural revolution 10,000 years ago, and Central Asians who charged through Europe in the last 4,000 to 5,000 years. Last month, a paper in Nature, suggested at each entity entered Europe by way of a separate migrations and only coalesced in the last 5,000 years. A new study published in yesterday’s Science changes this suggestion.

This new study is based on ancient DNA extracted from the fossilized skeleton, Kostenki 14 or K-14, who once was a short, dark featured man from approx. 36,000 years ago who died along the Middle Don River in Kostenki-Borshchevo, Russia.


Analysis of his DNA shows he has genes from all three of those migratory groups and so was already “pure European,” by modern standards says evolutionary biologist Eske Willerslev of the Natural History Museum of Denmark at the University of Copenhagen, who led the analysis. K-14 shared genetic ancestry with hunter-gatherers in Europe—as well as with the early farmers, suggesting that his ancestors interbred with members of the same Middle Eastern population who later turned into farmers and came to Europe themselves. Finally, he also carried the signature of the shadowy western Asians, including a boy who lived 24,000 years ago at Mal’ta in central Siberia. If that finding holds up, the mysterious DNA from western Eurasia must be very ancient, and not solely from a wave of nomads that entered Europe 5,000 years ago or so, as proposed by researchers in September.


Link to the paper: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/e ... ce.aaa0114

One more story about this find:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/11/ ... 6000-years

What is surprising is this guy represents one of the earliest Europeans, but at the same time he basically contains all the genetic components that you find in contemporary Europeans—at 37,000 years ago,” Willerslev says.


“There was a really large met-population that probably stretched all the way from the Middle East into Europe and into Eurasia,” Willerslev says. These people interbred at the edges of their separate populations, keeping the entire complex network interconnected—and so giving the ancient Kostenki man genes from three different groups. “In principle, you just have sex with your neighbor and they have it with their next neighbor—you don’t need to have these armies of people moving around to spread the genes.”


But even if the man from Kostenki in Russia had all these elements 36,000 years ago, that doesn’t mean that other Europeans did, Reich says. His team’s DNA data and models suggest that Europeans in the west and north did not pick up DNA from the steppes until much later. He and Krause also think that Willerslev’s study needs to be confirmed with higher resolution sequencing to rule out contamination, and to have more population genetics modeling explain the distribution of these genetic types. The bottom line, researchers agree, is that European origins are “seem to be much more complex than most people thought,” Willerslev says.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 25 Mar 2018 19:54

This is meant to be a sarcastic light-hearted post - lest someone gets upset...

This can't be right. 6000 years ago they domesticated horses in the Steppe and invented the wheel. Then they had chariots compared to the asses that others had and the asses who lived in India. This much we know from earlier brains on BRF. Then by 5000 years ago - these steppe people who were speaking PIE rode out and conquered Europe. Then they went to Syria - composing Rig Veda on the way. They left their mark in Syria and went to Iran and India driving the Dravidians and their heathen language towards Lemuria. This is the true history. Dismiss all that rubbish about 36,000 years ago genes etc. How can geneticists know more than what linguists found out?

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Dipanker » 25 Mar 2018 20:16

syam wrote:
According to Dipankar and some other folks, this is final proof to migration theory..


You are misquoting me. My current position is leaning AMT but with certain degree of ambivalence and certainly with no finality. More evidences are needed needed for that.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby RoyG » 25 Mar 2018 20:53

Dipanker wrote:
syam wrote:
According to Dipankar and some other folks, this is final proof to migration theory..


You are misquoting me. My current position is leaning AMT but with certain degree of ambivalence and certainly with no finality. More evidences are needed needed for that.


AMT is irrelevant in the sense that it doesn't tell us whether any particular group was oppressive. Migrations in and out happened but the culture that we know today was produced within the confines of the Indian subcontinent and moved both eastward and westward. Talageri proved it already.

As far as oppression goes, if you read chapter 11 of Balu's Heathen in His Blindness and skim through hipkapi blog you see sort of a validation of Talageri's thesis. Bharatas which were a subset of Purus made contact with Ikshvaku and accepted their anthropology which is why we didn't go down the path of Zoroastrians and Greeks. They figured out how to create a stability architecture by transmuting the Upanishads into existing ritual practice. Overtime, rituals from all over India borrowed from each other and became tradition when a threshold level of awareness of knowledge from Upanishads was achieved. Contrast this with Greeks/Romans who depended on worship of Emperor to maintain a unity after purge of Bards and contact with the Jews. Zoroastrian and Egyptions may have followed a similar path.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 25 Mar 2018 21:25

A_Gupta wrote:One more story about this find:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/11/ ... 6000-years

What is surprising is this guy represents one of the earliest Europeans, but at the same time he basically contains all the genetic components that you find in contemporary Europeans—at 37,000 years ago,” Willerslev says.


“There was a really large met-population that probably stretched all the way from the Middle East into Europe and into Eurasia,” Willerslev says. These people interbred at the edges of their separate populations, keeping the entire complex network interconnected—and so giving the ancient Kostenki man genes from three different groups. “In principle, you just have sex with your neighbor and they have it with their next neighbor—you don’t need to have these armies of people moving around to spread the genes.”


But even if the man from Kostenki in Russia had all these elements 36,000 years ago, that doesn’t mean that other Europeans did, Reich says. His team’s DNA data and models suggest that Europeans in the west and north did not pick up DNA from the steppes until much later. He and Krause also think that Willerslev’s study needs to be confirmed with higher resolution sequencing to rule out contamination, and to have more population genetics modeling explain the distribution of these genetic types. The bottom line, researchers agree, is that European origins are “seem to be much more complex than most people thought,” Willerslev says.

The interesting thing here is that it connects up with what Shrikant Talageriji says here in the Indology video: watch for about 2 minutes from the point I have linked below
https://youtu.be/KmeVR8sqSd4?t=404

He says that linguists simply assumed that "Aryans" brought language to India from South Russia but they never claim that those same Aryans bought language to England from South Russia.

Ironically - the genetic studies quoted by Arun above actually clearly state that modern European all have a steppe/south Russian component :D

Now try and tell linguists that? You may convince some but 200,000 pages of linguistic trash published over 200 years is going to take a long long long time to be wiped clean.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby RoyG » 25 Mar 2018 21:56

shiv wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:One more story about this find:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/11/ ... 6000-years






The interesting thing here is that it connects up with what Shrikant Talageriji says here in the Indology video: watch for about 2 minutes from the point I have linked below
https://youtu.be/KmeVR8sqSd4?t=404

He says that linguists simply assumed that "Aryans" brought language to India from South Russia but they never claim that those same Aryans bought language to England from South Russia.

Ironically - the genetic studies quoted by Arun above actually clearly state that modern European all have a steppe/south Russian component :D

Now try and tell linguists that? You may convince some but 200,000 pages of linguistic trash published over 200 years is going to take a long long long time to be wiped clean.


Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Mar 2018 00:10

I have no idea of the goodness of the information. Perhaps someone here knows.
http://njsaryablog.blogspot.com/2017/04 ... 4677389056
I am seeing ASI components in the ancient DNA found outside India. Probably you can shove it in davidski's face and ask him how :)

https://i.cubeupload.com/mTFkyU.png

The ASI component has been calculated as specified by Reich. And it is clearly evident how the ASI components outside India has diluted over time with no further input. So who invaded whom?


Image

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby RoyG » 26 Mar 2018 00:31

A_Gupta wrote:I have no idea of the goodness of the information. Perhaps someone here knows.
http://njsaryablog.blogspot.com/2017/04 ... 4677389056
I am seeing ASI components in the ancient DNA found outside India. Probably you can shove it in davidski's face and ask him how :)

https://i.cubeupload.com/mTFkyU.png

The ASI component has been calculated as specified by Reich. And it is clearly evident how the ASI components outside India has diluted over time with no further input. So who invaded whom?


Image


If the data provided is true it would be in line with post-ivc drift because of trade and invasions. So if anything it can serve as a neutral marker of sorts.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Prem » 26 Mar 2018 01:06

Doc talk on AIT watch


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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby JE Menon » 26 Mar 2018 01:12

^^It is only a brief commentary in there. I am awaiting the full presentation ...

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Pulikeshi » 26 Mar 2018 02:58

^^^Starting catching up with the Swadeshi videos uploaded - thank everyone who wears involved for this - kudos!

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Pulikeshi » 26 Mar 2018 03:03

For those interested in the European - Judeo-Christian-Islamic distortions based on Hamitic theories - this video is a must watch:
got a couple of maps/charts that provided me with valuable references to go back and research



PS: Do watch till the end, as the video is a purva paksha not an acceptance of the European idiocy
PPS: It is important to view these distortions and the genocidal after effects on several cultures and civilizations of the world not just India
PPS: It is also important that we not repeat the same mistakes looking for “the lost Brown Tribes”

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby suryag » 26 Mar 2018 09:04

Latest article on Swarajya states that purana qila may have been the site of Indraprastha

https://swarajyamag.com/culture/asi-is-again-digging-up-the-site-of-indraprastha-in-delhi-and-the-findings-are-exciting

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Mar 2018 09:50

RoyG wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:

Image

If the data provided is true it would be in line with post-ivc drift because of trade and invasions. So if anything it can serve as a neutral marker of sorts.


That Kostenki14_UP_SG is the 37,000 year old European referred to above, I believe.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6848&p=2261305#p2261169

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 27 Mar 2018 08:30

Watch Rajiv Malhotra talking about how the "Harvard Tamil Chair" is handing money and control of the Tamil narrative to Harvard. Watch it all if you have time - or at east 10 minutes from where I have linked
https://youtu.be/trVnXl4vylY?t=509

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 27 Mar 2018 10:25

How the Tamil Hindu identity was hijacked by evangelists. Watch from here
https://youtu.be/e8OTfay7a2I?t=3744

- Dravidians before Caldwell

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 27 Mar 2018 10:41

JE Menon wrote:^^It is only a brief commentary in there. I am awaiting the full presentation ...

Yes JEM - my longer talk has not yet appeared online but here are a couple of responses I have about "Horse Evidence" and Saraswati river - watch about 2 minutes
https://youtu.be/KmeVR8sqSd4?t=1260

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby JE Menon » 27 Mar 2018 10:41

(Re) Posting this one here, as it is a valuable read and very coherently put together:

https://medium.com/the-indian-interest/ ... aaacee8be3

The Aryan Invasion Myth: How 21st Century Science Debunks 19th Century Indology

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby JE Menon » 27 Mar 2018 10:49

Thanks doc. You should do this more often please. Now that you have been on the Infinity Foundation conference series, there should be ways of spreading wings gradually into national media.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 28 Mar 2018 07:45

Tony Joseph
‏@tjoseph0010

One of India's most respected geneticists, Prof. Partha P Majumder of the National Institute of Biomedical Genomics, weighs in on the Aryan migration debate in the March 10 issue of Current Science:
https://t.co/GAqR9IG7H4
Image

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 28 Mar 2018 08:26

^^^ But in https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9707623532, Prof Partha P Majumder et. al. argue that:
The pattern of clustering does not support the model that the primary source of the R1a1-M17 chromosomes in India was Central Asia or the Indus Valley via Indo-European speakers.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 28 Mar 2018 08:27

A_Gupta wrote:
Tony Joseph
‏@tjoseph0010

One of India's most respected geneticists, Prof. Partha P Majumder of the National Institute of Biomedical Genomics, weighs in on the Aryan migration debate in the March 10 issue of Current Science:
https://t.co/GAqR9IG7H4
Image

My response on Twitter. Nilesh Oak in the video
https://twitter.com/bennedose/status/978827188848902144
The good Prof has already mentally internalised the idea that there were Aryans and an Aryan homeland and then speaks of migration. This is where good genetic work fails as they use false racist "history". Well summed up here - 3 minutes https://youtu.be/KmeVR8sqSd4?t=627

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 28 Mar 2018 08:46


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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 28 Mar 2018 08:55

Pulikeshi wrote:For those interested in the European - Judeo-Christian-Islamic distortions based on Hamitic theories - this video is a must watch:
got a couple of maps/charts that provided me with valuable references to go back and research



PS: Do watch till the end, as the video is a purva paksha not an acceptance of the European idiocy
PPS: It is important to view these distortions and the genocidal after effects on several cultures and civilizations of the world not just India
PPS: It is also important that we not repeat the same mistakes looking for “the lost Brown Tribes”


Bears repeating to those who think "if the idea came out of Europe it must be science".

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby JE Menon » 28 Mar 2018 09:06

A_Gupta wrote:Yet another AIT paper:
https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/a ... 017-0936-9


Thanks A_Gupta. I think this is the paper being referred to by Tony Joseph. The opening paragraph, under "Background", is extremely interesting (if only for the ridiculous linguistic contortions):
_________________
India is a patchwork of tribal and non-tribal populations that speak many different languages from various language families. Indo-European, spoken across northern and central India, and also in Pakistan and Bangladesh, has been frequently connected to the so-called “Indo-Aryan invasions” from Central Asia ~3.5 ka and the establishment of the caste system, but the extent of immigration at this time remains extremely controversial. South India, on the other hand, is dominated by Dravidian languages. India displays a high level of endogamy due to its strict social boundaries, and high genetic drift as a result of long-term isolation which, together with a very complex history, makes the genetic study of Indian populations challenging.
_________________

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 28 Mar 2018 09:09

Tony Joseph is referring to this one:
http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/114/05/0971.pdf
Understanding the Aryan debate: population genetic concepts and frameworks
Partha P. Majumder

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby JE Menon » 28 Mar 2018 17:58

^^No A_Gupta, I meant the paper he was referring to in his original article where he refers to Silva.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 28 Mar 2018 23:58

Important. The case below claims to be one of cultural continuity even though there was population replacement.

"Divided by DNA: The uneasy relationship between archaeology and ancient genomics
Two fields in the midst of a technological revolution are struggling to reconcile their views of the past. "
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-03773-6
Thirty kilometres north of Stonehenge, through the rolling countryside of southwest England, stands a less-famous window into Neolithic Britain. Established around 3600 bc by early farming communities, the West Kennet long barrow is an earthen mound with five chambers, adorned with giant stone slabs. At first, it served as a tomb for some three dozen men, women and children. But people continued to visit for more than 1,000 years, filling the chambers with relics such as pottery and beads that have been interpreted as tributes to ancestors or gods.

The artifacts offer a view of those visitors and their relationship with the wider world. Changes in pottery styles there sometimes echoed distant trends in continental Europe, such as the appearance of bell-shaped beakers — a connection that signals the arrival of new ideas and people in Britain. But many archaeologists think these material shifts meshed into a generally stable culture that continued to follow its traditions for centuries.

“The ways in which people are doing things are the same. They’re just using different material culture — different pots,” says Neil Carlin at University College Dublin, who studies Ireland and Britain’s transition from the Neolithic into the Copper and Bronze Ages.

But last year, reports started circulating that seemed to challenge this picture of stability. A study analysing genome-wide data from 170 ancient Europeans, including 100 associated with Bell Beaker-style artifacts, suggested that the people who had built the barrow and buried their dead there had all but vanished by 2000 bc. The genetic ancestry of Neolithic Britons, according to the study, was almost entirely displaced. Yet somehow the new arrivals carried on with many of the Britons’ traditions. “That didn’t fit for me,” says Carlin, who has been struggling to reconcile his research with the DNA findings.


Many archaeologists are also trying to understand and engage with the inconvenient findings from genetics. Carlin, for instance, says that the Bell Beaker genome study sent him on “a journey of reflection” in which he questioned his own views about the past. He has pored over the selection of DNA samples included in the study as well as the basis for its conclusion that the appearance of Bell Beaker artefacts coincided with a greater than 90% replacement in Britain’s gene pool. “I didn’t want to be questioning it from a position of ignorance,” Carlin says.

Like Heyd, he accepts that a shift in ancestry occurred (although he has questions about its timing and scale). Those results, in fact, now have him wondering about how cultural practices such as leaving pottery and other tributes at the West Kennet long barrow persisted in the face of such upheavals. “I would characterize a lot of these papers as ‘map and describe’. They’re looking at the movement of genetic signatures, but in terms of how or why that’s happening, those things aren’t being explored,” says Carlin, who is no longer disturbed by the disconnect. “I am increasingly reconciling myself to the view that archaeology and ancient DNA are telling different stories.” The changes in cultural and social practices that he studies might coincide with the population shifts that Reich and his team are uncovering, but they don’t necessarily have to. And such biological insights will never fully explain the human experiences captured in the archaeological record.


Reich agrees that his field is in a “map-making phase”, and that genetics is only sketching out the rough contours of the past. Sweeping conclusions, such as those put forth in the 2015 steppe migration papers, will give way to regionally focused studies with more subtlety.

This is already starting to happen. Although the Bell Beaker study found a profound shift in the genetic make-up of Britain, it rejected the notion that the cultural phenomenon was associated with a single population. In Iberia, individuals buried with Bell Beaker goods were closely related to earlier local populations and shared little ancestry with Beaker-associated individuals from northern Europe (who were related to steppe groups such as the Yamnaya). The pots did the moving, not the people.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 29 Mar 2018 00:04, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 29 Mar 2018 00:00

^^^
In duelling 2015 Nature papers6,7, the teams arrived at broadly similar conclusions: an influx of herders from the grassland steppes of present-day Russia and Ukraine — linked to Yamnaya cultural artefacts and practices such as pit burial mounds — had replaced much of the gene pool of central and Western Europe around 4,500–5,000 years ago. This was coincident with the disappearance of Neolithic pottery, burial styles and other cultural expressions and the emergence of Corded Ware cultural artefacts, which are distributed throughout northern and central Europe. “These results were a shock to the archaeological community,” Kristiansen says.

Cord cutters

The conclusions immediately met with push-back. Some of it began even before the papers were published, says Reich. When he circulated a draft among his dozens of collaborators, several archaeologists quit the project. To many, the idea that people linked to Corded Ware had replaced Neolithic groups in Western Europe was eerily reminiscent of the ideas of Gustaf Kossinna, the early-twentieth-century German archaeologist who had connected Corded Ware culture to the people of modern Germany and promoted a ‘Risk board’ view of prehistory known as settlement archaeology. The idea later fed into Nazi ideology.

Reich won his co-authors back by explicitly rejecting Kossinna’s ideas in an essay included in the paper’s 141-page supplementary material7. He says the episode was eye-opening in showing how a wider audience would perceive genetic studies claiming large-scale ancient migrations.

Still, not everyone was satisfied. In an essay8 titled ‘Kossinna’s Smile’, archaeologist Volker Heyd at the University of Bristol, UK, disagreed, not with the conclusion that people moved west from the steppe, but with how their genetic signatures were conflated with complex cultural expressions. Corded Ware and Yamnaya burials are more different than they are similar, and there is evidence of cultural exchange, at least, between the Russian steppe and regions west that predate Yamnaya culture, he says. None of these facts negates the conclusions of the genetics papers, but they underscore the insufficiency of the articles in addressing the questions that archaeologists are interested in, he argued. “While I have no doubt they are basically right, it is the complexity of the past that is not reflected,” Heyd wrote, before issuing a call to arms. “Instead of letting geneticists determine the agenda and set the message, we should teach them about complexity in past human actions.”

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Pulikeshi » 29 Mar 2018 11:50

Nilesh,

Since you read/contribute on this thread. I just watched your presentation online at the Swadeshi conf.
First, congrats on a fantastic job on doing a purvapaksha and then demolishing the Dogma. You should plan to speak more :mrgreen:

If you are receptive, here are two points for you to consider:

  1. AIT/AMT are dogma as you correctly point out, perhaps even worse. However, in showing that Talgeri, Archeological evidence etc. have debunked dogma, you are merely arguing against a false religion. My very humble suggestion would be that if you also point out where Talgeri or Archeological evidence, etc. is lacking and where further research could provide stronger agama, if you will, to help generate better hypothesis, I think you will have a much more stronger case to make... this will make Patanjali’s way even stronger for either the researchers you are critical of (even if they are friends) or inspire other younger minds to keep the flame alive.
  2. Myths and Dogmas never die, they are replaced - if you buy this argument. Scholars such as yourself and others have the onus to provide atleast the kernel of the alternate myth or better yet hypothesis that can be validated by others... So it is not only critical that you do that, but also provide other scholars the intuition and insight of critical feedback.

Just some humble feedback for what that is worth...
Love that works you guys are doing! Keep it up!

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby vanand » 29 Mar 2018 21:30

Accidentally found this. I don't know this place will be appropriate, posting it here since this may help who is interested with linguistic. People who can know Tamil well can go through this and can initiate discussions based on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehhtOEjJvkM

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 30 Mar 2018 03:17

vanand wrote:Accidentally found this. I don't know this place will be appropriate, posting it here since this may help who is interested with linguistic. People who can know Tamil well can go through this and can initiate discussions based on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehhtOEjJvkM


1. Mandura Mountains - Mandura is said to be from Tamil.
But: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandara_Kingdom
Tradition states that Mandara was founded shortly before 1500 by a female ruler named Soukda and a non-Mandarawa hunter named Gaya. The kingdom was first referred to by Fra Mauro (in 1459) and Leo Africanus (in 1526); the provenance of its name remains uncertain.


2. The NOVA video narration is that the main crop of the Mofu people is sorghum, in the native language it is millet. The person who finds Tamil says that their main crop is solam which is millet in English.

Sorghum (jowar), btw, originated in North Africa, per Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorghum_bicolor

http://www.sorghumcheckoff.com/all-about-sorghum
The origin and early domestication of sorghum took place in Northeastern Africa. The earliest known record of sorghum comes from an archeological dig at Nabta Playa, near the Egyptian-Sudanese border, dated 8,000 B.C. Sorghum spread throughout Africa, and along the way, adapted to a wide range of environments from the highlands of Ethiopia to the semi-arid Sahel.

The development and spread of five different races of sorghum can, in many cases, be attributed to the movement of various tribal groups in Africa. Sorghum then spread to India and China and eventually worked its way into Australia.


From elsewhere, sorghum arrived in India around Harappan times.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Sorghum

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 30 Mar 2018 03:35

The Swadesh list is a list of common words used for comparative linguistics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swadesh_list

The Cameroon Mofu language has a Swadesh list below.
https://ia800301.us.archive.org/34/item ... -1/mif.txt
Here is how Microsoft Word interprets the Unicode characters. Perhaps Tamil-speakers can now figure out if there is any link to Tamil.

all: tábə̀yá
and: tà
ashes: ́ɗə̀wár
belly: hwáɗ
bird: ɗə̀yàng
bone: tétèɬ
come: ̀s-à-wà
day: ɗár
eat: ́zàm̀
eye: dèy
fall: ́kwàỳ
father: pàpá-ng
few: nékèɗè
four: ́mfàɗ
good: màháyà
hand: hár
head: rày
he: ánga
how: kwárà
in: dá
I: yà
know: ̀sàr̀
mother: mámà-ng
mountain: ángwà
mouth: méy
not: bá
one: pál
other: mékèlé
rain: vár
river: wáyàm
say: ́làv̀
seed: hwálfàɗ
sit: ̀nj́
split: ̀pàk̀
stone: ángwà
sun: pás
that: ngèné
there: fétè
they: átá
this: káá
thou: kà
three: máhkàr
tree: wə̀déz
two: cèw
walk: ̀dàw
we: álà
what: mè
who: wá
with: tà
woman: ́ngwàs
you: ákwàr

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Gus » 30 Mar 2018 05:55

solam is maize, which came to India from americas post-columbian - right?

and there is no tamill word in that list.

i suspect a lemurian at play in that video.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby sudarshan » 30 Mar 2018 06:16

Gus wrote:solam is maize, which came to India from americas post-columbian - right?

and there is no tamill word in that list.

i suspect a lemurian at play in that video.


Got to agree. I didn't see a single similarity to any Tamil word in that list. I can post actual Tamil words for each of those items if you guys want, you will see just how different the words are.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby shiv » 30 Mar 2018 07:37

This is not the first time a Lemurian video has been posted here. That narrative has so many holes that it is not worth discussing.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Pulikeshi » 30 Mar 2018 10:37

^^^A while ago when I look at these lemurian videos they seem to be connected to some EJs propagandu - not really sure what their angle is...
Perhaps someone has looked into this angle and shed some light.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Murugan » 30 Mar 2018 14:13

Tamarind = El Tamar El Hind = Date of India

In the mean-e-while, (added later), enjoy this song by Tunisian Singer who is going ga-ga (literally) over Tamr el Hendi :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsZHcMEn0aE

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby A_Gupta » 31 Mar 2018 07:24

From a comment on my blog:
With that being said,I don't think R1a-M17 originated in Western India now that we have expanded the R1a tree and found that R1a in India is just a sub-branch of R1a-Z93.
A bird told me that even Dr Gyaneshwar chaubey is a closest believer in R1a arrival to India somewhere near 2500 BC to 5000 BC :).


http://arunsmusings.blogspot.com/2017/1 ... 0132990754

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Postby Murugan » 31 Mar 2018 09:51

It is high-time we have our own understanding of 'who we are' very well documented keeping in mind our own traditional literature; and modern genetics, archaeology and other evidences.

Let those morons do Purva Paksha on our work, if they want to. How long we will keep doing purva-paksha of others' AIT and Linguistic non-sense ? Especially when their motive are dubious; do they deserve purva-paksha ? Like Raktabija Asur they keep coming with more and more sh8te and we are just involved in countering them.

***

Arabic and Persian work on India is reliable link to our past; which is hardly studied by Indians.
Jain Agams and Buddhist work will give good insight on India as their work is preserved in various mediums.


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