India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 29 Jan 2015 07:03

^+1.

Dick Verma in a fit of tactical brilliance (infected by close Baki contact in the state department, perhaps?) has ensured that his stock in Delhi has sunk to newer lows. As it is, he was viewed as a cloutless dandy to start with (allegedly).

Shabaash mere sher. *Slow clapping*.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 29 Jan 2015 07:32

Hari Seldon wrote:^+1.

Dick Verma in a fit of tactical brilliance (infected by close Baki contact in the state department, perhaps?) has ensured that his stock in Delhi has sunk to newer lows. As it is, he was viewed as a cloutless dandy to start with (allegedly).

Shabaash mere sher. *Slow clapping*.

Guys, some reserved judgement is in order. Look at ur logic:
a) Embassy -e- Dilli is filled with racist, conversionist germs.
b) 'Rick Worm-A is not a WASP.
c) POTUS BO is not a WASP.

Take Postulate a) as a given and consider what they would do to b) and c). Do u believe it is in their interest for b) and c) to be on good terms with current dispensation in Dilli?

What happens when BO and 'Rick W. get to be on really good terms and seek advice on what India would like to see at the embassy? I mean, to the musharrafs of the a)?

So I think this is a back-stab, big-time. Let's see if Worm-A gets some action, sending a whole bunch packing. Trouble is, there is no way to know.
Maybe Bee Jay Pee should oblige and organize a good demonstration saying GHAR VAPAS JA! PACO GO HOME!

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 29 Jan 2015 07:40

Is this an attempt by some of the higher ups to throw the new ambassador and the mid-to-low ranking officials in the US embassy under the proverbial bus?

Surely, PoTUS and his close advisors would not be naive to include this reference to "religious freedom" in the Obama's address based on the advice of some unnamed embassy officials and a new ambassador, who's new to the region, even if he has some roots here.

No sirss, the initiative came from somewhere much higher in the hierarchy and the US Embassy in India, which already has people not in good books with the government have been made the scapegoats.

Not to say that they would not have engineered or campaigned for this in the first place (probably based on some nudges and 'insights' from the friends and contacts in the lutyens and the EJ mafia). The likes of NDTV, Turdesai etc were too well prepared and gleeful in their TV programs.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 29 Jan 2015 07:42

Here is one more possibility similar to the above: Ombaba realized he effed up and wanted a fall guy. Enter Dick Worm-A

In any case, I do hope that the Indian side does a thorough post mortem analysis on this and find the poisonous roots both within our fifth column and in the faggy battam juvenile gang.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 29 Jan 2015 07:48

I hear that in Dera Atlanta Khan, the Injun Consul has become as popular as the boll weevil. Locals invited one of his deputies to be chief guest at some function. The Consul tried gate-crashing. Was met at the door by the organizer, who told him very firmly that he could come in as a member of the public, but as for being invited to sit on the dais or make a speech, forget it.

'Rick Worm-A is headed for a similar fate in Dilli unless he does some fast back-pedalling.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 Jan 2015 08:21

The question still remains why did "my friend barry" do this to me. Does el presidente just read out the speeches from the teleprompter without prior review. You have to give the office more credit than that. He is not that stupid after all the 2.5 days of dining and dealing.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 29 Jan 2015 08:23

This is not about race but about religion. Dick Worm-a, like Bobby J might want to endear himself to SD's Judeo-Christian framework by acting more faithful than the faithful. Obama's proclamation that he/wife are Christians is pretty much a barb directed at White-Christians in the US who are convinced he is Hussein. So, I consider it quite plausible that SD, Worm-a & Embassy staffers will continue to be a thorn in Hindu-Extremist Modi's side (just like NYT & WaPo). They may grease the wheels on better trade/defence-cooperation/nuke-deal etc but be hardliners when it comes to GharWapsi, "oppression" of Christians etc. With Modi's prioritization of Economy over Hindutva, they have read the tea-leaves correctly that they can continue to push him on this front & not expect a retaliation

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jan 2015 08:27

so, you are saying baba was not infected with worms ahead?

ps: if it is on the agenda, we will see that soon.

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 29 Jan 2015 08:36

This parting shot, or absolute backstabbing of the trust that was established between Modi and Obama, even before he left the country can only be good for India. The truth (about Obama and the US evanjehadis, gnashing their teeth and biding their time) has come out so quickly. This will help remove any "romantic notions" about US, that might have crept into BJP government after all the "Barack and I" sound and optics. Indians tend to get carried away with sound bites and flattery. This will force a rethink, if that had happened. US is certainly not a friend of India. It is a jackal hiding in a sheep skin.

This has the potential to wipe out all or most of the good will generated in this visit.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 Jan 2015 08:43

What backstabbing where there is none, it is just that Ombaba did a madison square garden in India and spoke his mind. If people are delusional about their abilities to influence others, it is their problem only no ? The message is perhaps we will do business with you, but we do not endorse your world view...or whatever. Just brings clarity after all those American style hugs and effusive love.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 29 Jan 2015 08:48

So, Sujatha Singh was either sleeping while reviewing the speech (yes, Indian side much review and approve the speech of BO and Modi/Swaraj just relied on their team) or was complicit in it as she was congress loyalist. Appears every chair, every desk, and every flower pot needs to be checked to see if congress bugs and critters are hanging around.

Dr. S JayaShankar is a phenomenal diplomat.

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 29 Jan 2015 09:01

^^ Bade ji,

Modi didn't attack the real ills of America in Madison Sq. Here Obama chose to attack a non-existent ill of India.

If Obama had spoken privately to Modi and communicated his concerns, that would have been in good faith. Modi could have privately replied what the evanjehadis are doing to India. Instead Obama chose to sneak in a condescending speech just before hopping off to SA. Obama and his speech writers must know what his evanjehadis are up to in India and the dirty games they play on Hindus. They are at the root cause of religious intolerance in India. So his speech is certainly a betrayal of the good faith extended to him.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 Jan 2015 09:14

All I am saying is that OB did not do anything that was not expected of him as a POTUS. People here think he should not have said what he had on his mind, to not feel let down by him. It is his or his state's view irrespective of whether you or me not believe in what he is saying.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 29 Jan 2015 09:19

Obama's speech must be criticized not because it offends anyone's sensibilities (most don't give a crap), but because we need to send a message that this sort of behavior is uncouth. His speech must be criticized with contempt, not hurt. We may privately "expect this of a POTUS", but publicly he must be derided.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 29 Jan 2015 09:25

Ombaba came here as a "friend", acted as a "friend" and did the exact Baki thing that any AmirKhan el-Bresidente would do. Those of us who thought there was a genuine change of heart were fooled, and rightfully so

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 29 Jan 2015 09:25

The state (US) knows its perfidy, and how they are funding hatred within India, and how they are screwing Hindus/India. With that knowledge, this speech is not what is really on his mind (I do agree it is their official position). It is just a calculated assault, which backfired in my opinion. He just exposed his hand and that can only be good for India. Hopefully it puts the power to be on guard, and not be too generous in its dealings with the US. This speech has harmed US interests, in a way.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 29 Jan 2015 09:32

The Baki way of doing things is to spread lies while being a hypocrite doing the exact same thing that you are advising others against. Ombaba was not truthful in his speech, and he was spreading sanctimonious advice based on a dishonest moral stand.

Again, that is to be expected from el-presidente of a Baki like country.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 29 Jan 2015 09:35

Bade wrote:All I am saying is that OB did not do anything that was not expected of him as a POTUS. People here think he should not have said what he had on his mind, to not feel let down by him. It is his or his state's view irrespective of whether you or me not believe in what he is saying.

And here I thought that art of diplomacy was to keep others sensibilities in mind before mouthing off. But if you mean to imply that being a PoTUS automatically turns someone into an undiplomatic arse, then so be it.

I do wonder if he said what was really on his mind once he left Arabia.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 Jan 2015 09:38

To me it looks like a political statement on his part couched in usual US state policy on freedom of religion. It is clearly directed at his new found "friend" and it looks like the friend needs GOTUS support more than the other way around. Just bear with it and the friend also knows it, and he seems to have got something in return for now to show for all this trouble.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 29 Jan 2015 09:40

Another way to put it. India stretched its hand for a shake-hand, Ombaba shook it and then spit on its face

. I hope that clears the reason for the Khujli.

You can expect your face to be spit on by getting close, but getting spit on is always a difficult position to be put in, regardless of whether one knows that event is going to occur or not.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 29 Jan 2015 09:42

Bade Saar: there only on question that needs to be answered by the U.S.

Is there religious freedom in India?

while I made it into a decision problem, the situation is a little more complex but the answer is AS yes. Same is true with women's rights. One cannot apply the same yardstick as the U.S. which President BO is trying to do. India is lot more complex than the mostly homogenous Europe or the US or any of the Islamic countries or even Japan for that matter.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 29 Jan 2015 09:51

i am very convinced that unsolicited advice was an EJ insertion. presidents do not read everything on their own, or write their own speeches - they get 'daily digest' type reports, and the State dept is full of india haters and EJ sympathisers.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 Jan 2015 09:55

matrimc, the way you formulated the question, it depends on each country/society/individual's view on what constitutes religion. Unfortunately no state supports "freedom from religion" which would have a more cut and dry answer. So religion has become a political tool for both internal and external affairs in politics. I will leave it at that.

We should evaluate the success of this visit on trade and military ties solely and not based on each other making adjustments to their versions of exceptionalism, which is fraught with complexities and ambiguity.

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 29 Jan 2015 10:02

^^Gus Refer to the "insight" news posted above, Dick Verma has a role to play in this.

By the way, Dick verma is 1/2 paki. His mother a paki (moved to India during partition), father an Indian. He has an Armenian wife.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 29 Jan 2015 10:06

Bade: freedom of religion is subsumed by freedom of expression. There is not much censoring in India unless of course it hurts the sentiments of certain beliefs. It would be good to remember satanic verses no?

In that sense there is no freedom of expression. I hope that is what president BO had in mind when he gave that speech. If not, as an US citizen I would say that he had hurt american interests by not being truthful. Indian aam admis while not as polished as Harvard educated lawyers are quite capable of smelling hypocrisy however much one wants to hide it behind ingratiating Bon homie.

We Americans do need the kicks on our axess we get from Saudi royals once in a while. Otherwise we tend to think we have become chatrapati, wouldn't we?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jan 2015 10:18

if you have access, take a look at the russia today channel.

it is running exactly the same urbane counter-psyops on the US as is being advocated for a revamped DD.

the first goal obviously is to break the idolization of amrika in the indian mind as the ideal liberal state. show its good stuff which is on all channels 24x7, but pull up and display and discuss the numerous warts as well like a surgical panel.

once the pagan idolatry is broken (!), true faith can seep in....

this is the only way to control the gratuitous lectures that western countries like to dish out.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 Jan 2015 10:23

matrimc, you are right on primacy of freedom of expression over religion.

In this specific case, POTUS did not spare his countrymen for bringing up his own beliefs to question while on foreign soil. So to say he was spitting at his new friend alone is not entirely true. It definitely had a political tone.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Jan 2015 11:15

Bade stop digging the hole.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 29 Jan 2015 11:44

Singha wrote:if you have access, take a look at the russia today channel.

it is running exactly the same urbane counter-psyops on the US as is being advocated for a revamped DD.

the first goal obviously is to break the idolization of amrika in the indian mind as the ideal liberal state. show its good stuff which is on all channels 24x7, but pull up and display and discuss the numerous warts as well like a surgical panel.

once the pagan idolatry is broken (!), true faith can seep in....

this is the only way to control the gratuitous lectures that western countries like to dish out.

True. I think the biggest strength of Amirkhan is Hollywood-Media. The next biggest strength is Univs. And of course, there is always the almighty dollar.

In short, entertainment-information-education-currency.

Its really amazing how they can simply make or break anyone through their media coverage. If they really want they can definitely portray Modi as the biggest villain in the world. Or they can portray him in positive way. Really amazing...

I think the ground is being prepared to portray the Modi govt as evil Hindhuthva fascist govt which persecutes the minorities. These statements by Churches and Obama are essentially pointing towards that. Of course, right now, they seem to need each other and are being goody goody. But, if US needs to villainize Modi, then they can bring out these charges.

They need a stick to beat every regime.

Amirkhan is actually funding NGOs and missionaries all over the world. There was an article posted somewhere on the forum about See Eye A and its links with missionaries. These missionaries and NGOs are not always what they claim to be. They have subversive agendas against the countries in which they work. So, basically, Amikrhan is funding to weaken other countries to stay on top.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 29 Jan 2015 11:50

Some nerve for the US to talk to India about tolerance,blah,blah.What about the race riots not too long ago? Mr.Modi should've reminded him about those riots! The US bombing civilisations across the MEast into oblivion as well should be commented upon.
Nothing seems to have changed with the "Ugly American". O'Bomber was accorded a unique welcome which no other head of state has ever recd.,but he blew it with his condescension.India is NOT a US neo-colony,vasssal state,poodle like Britain or inferior to it in any way.Our civilisation spans thousand of years.The US of A is barely a couple of centuries+ old.

Anyway,the lame duck has departed.Time will show the fultility of high hopes.Once the Pakis start their act again,the US and O'Bomber will have to "walk the talk",otherwise India will have to go it alone as usual. Weakening India's independence and sovereignty is a US fundamental,as India being the globe's largest democracy,where every election is held free and fair in impeccable manner,something that nations around the world look up to,is a huge threat to the US's claim of being the world's moral superior.

The immediate announcement after "Washington Duck" departed,that our dear PM would visit Beijing for "Beijing Duck",with Sushma leaving shortly to pave the way for the visit,indicates that there is a distinct desire upon the establishment and new dispensation not to ruffle the feathers of the PRC unduly. It shows that India has friends all over the world,including the US,but that if China and India can reach an understanding,esp. on the border,Tibet,etc.,there would be no need for India to align itself with an anti-Chinese mil. clique.Moreover,the BRICS clique needs to get their act together as Europe is in sh*t street and the developing world must band together casting off western eco institutions which have held them captive for a century impoverishing them.

Mr.Modi would be a great bridge player,as in foreign affairs he seems to playing towards a "Grand Slam",where every major nation is his buddy. The Beijing visit comes on the heels of the Berlin visit and one is sure that a visit to Moscow will not be too far away.
Not for a long time,have we seen an Indian PM so actively involved with foreign affairs.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 29 Jan 2015 12:03

Guys,

Ignore onlee.

We need to be focused on the long term goals that we need to accomplish. We must not get sidetracked by the pinpricks. Learn from NaMo.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 29 Jan 2015 18:55

JohneeG wrote:True. I think the biggest strength of Amirkhan is Hollywood-Media. The next biggest strength is Univs. And of course, there is always the almighty dollar.

In short, entertainment-information-education-currency.

It may seem like a strength in the time scale of the past 100 years. But it currency is most certainly not its strength. For 10 years, post Bretton Woods conference i.e. until 1955, it was certainly its strength. Ever since it has been an albatross around its neck. Think this one through. Everything currently rests on the primacy of USD. EVERYTHING.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 29 Jan 2015 19:01

American military might should not be ignored when discussing their strengths.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 29 Jan 2015 19:13

prahaar wrote:American military might should not be ignored when discussing their strengths.

Does the tail wag the dog or does the dog wag the tail?

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 29 Jan 2015 19:25

by rsgrini
By the way, Dick verma is 1/2 paki. His mother a paki (moved to India during partition), father an Indian. He has an Armenian wife.

What kind of hate statement is that? Both of my parents moved from Bakistan to India in 1947 so that makes me full paki?

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 29 Jan 2015 19:44

Sbajwaji,
I agree. When I read it now, It doesn't sound good. Even what I wanted to actually convey through that statement is not relevant to this discussion.

I apologize to you and others if this has caused any offense.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 29 Jan 2015 20:25

Thanks!!
that's ok!!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Jan 2015 20:56

If 77% of Toshiba-Westinghouse and 50 % of GE-BWR are owned by Japan why is US pushing the nuke deal as it will only benefit marginally from power reactor commerce with India. Its Japan which will benefit from this IUCNA deal. But Japan has its own demons to deal with vis a vis Indian power reactors.

Is the US hope that they can send intrusive inspections into India above and beyond the IAEA?

But even this has been waived by President Obama!

Or some sort of Sword of Damocles on a future Indian decision to test a nuke? But this is a national security decision that will be taken regardless of atmospherics.

The supreme national interests consideration far outweighs any treaty/veaty.

So what is the dynamic pushing the US on the nuke deal?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jan 2015 21:02

they have nothing to lose and potentially some leverage to gain. its a cheap investment with potential good ROI in future...value investing.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Jan 2015 21:10

Think deeper.