India-US Relations : News and Discussion

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 30 Jan 2015 17:46

ramana wrote:UB even RSS said the same thing and folks twittered.

However, BO landed in Saudi, instead of Auschwitz Holocaust Liberation anniversary event. And Saudi have no constitution other than Holy book, no secularism, a terrible record of financing jihadis and paki-like jihadi fronts, decades old oil monopoly/cartel leadership, history of enmity with Iran, etc etc.

And I am not going into details of why one exclusive ideology looks down upon another exclusive ideology.

And the preaching/judging WaPo crowd ended up with frown on Mrs. BO, instead of asking why have the welcoming troupe from Saudi Royals not got any lady from their harem along for accompanying Mrs. BO. But then, Saudis already have civilized ideology, no? So preaching heatheins and pageins of India must be where a secular American can show sincerity and be preachy n all. By the way, secularism seems to be not a topic well discussed in USA. Wonder why.

So is America a secular country? Has to be, in order to point out flaws in Heatheins & Pageins.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 30 Jan 2015 17:47

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 067498.cms
President Barack Obama's message on tolerance was 'universal': US ambassador Richard Verma

NEW DELHI: Days after the US President made a strong pitch for religious tolerance during an address here, US Ambassador to India Richard Verma today downplayed that it was a subtle message to India, saying Barack Obama's message was "universal" and he was speaking as much for American people as for Indians.

"This was a message that was for all people and not just people in India. It was universal. President likes to talk about these universal rights," Verma said during an interview with Karan Thapar in his programme "To the point".

Look who is talking it up ... not the US amby.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 30 Jan 2015 19:17

UlanBatoriJi, I know you were being lounge'n cheek, but it was a brilliant list nevertheless. Its absolutely stunning that India under relentless attack by Abrahamic Jihadis, but the blame is on Hindus. This attack is by a combination of self-loathing, corrupt elitist, colonized Hindus themselves in cohort with white Hindus haters, all of whom have the money, and the media power.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 30 Jan 2015 20:56

I know you were being lounge'n cheek,

But I was NOT! That is the only way to interpret BO's statement. The

reaction is what is totally wrong. WHY should yindoos read it any other way, hain?

To quote a postor on Facepook:

So for the first time, an American President has acknowledged that trying to divide India arguing about separate regions for each religion, etc, is a disastrous course. Duh!

So much for Pakistaniyat, as practised in Cash-More Valley, Godhra (where they only raise the Pakistani flag on Aug 14-15). Or of marching in Tian An Men Square.

The PM-e-Yindoostan should compliment the USA on having the Voting Rights Act and on amending the Constitution the first time (phew!) and say that as long as the USA has freedom of speech and allows minorities to vote, she will be successful. I am sure that millions of Americans are not aware of either of those changes and need the education.

Now THERE mah tongue is in mah cheek, massa! Ain't that the Lawd's own truth!

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 30 Jan 2015 21:44

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/ta ... 835420.ece
Takeaways from the Obama visit

The most significant achievement was the progress made in military and defence cooperation. The renewal of the 10-year framework for the U.S.-India Defence Relationship; the announcement of joint projects, including the co-production of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and specialised equipment for military transport aircraft; the establishment of contact groups to explore co-development of jet engine technology and aircraft carrier systems, and the decision to upgrade bilateral, annual naval exercises represent substantive steps that will deepen the defence partnership.

The establishment of a hotline between the two leaders and their national security advisers are also an indicator of the two countries taking ties to a deeper, strategic level.
...
Nonetheless, U.S. officials seem to appreciate the effort India’s negotiators are making in trying to resolve the civil nuclear deadlock. Many were sceptical that Mr. Modi would invest much political capital in trying to move the deal forward since it was initiated under the previous government headed by Dr. Manmohan Singh. The time and the attention the Indian side has devoted in trying to resolve differences over the nuclear liability issue shows that the Modi government is taking ownership of the deal.
...
Forming the backdrop of progress on India-U.S. defence and strategic ties is undoubtedly the military and economic rise of China. The Joint Statement’s call for freedom of navigation and overflight, especially in the South China Sea, should be viewed as a veiled reference to Chinese assertiveness in the region.
...
Incidentally, the Washington-based Heritage Foundation will join the Delhi-based Vivekananda International Foundation, the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, the Tokyo Foundation, and the Jakarta-based Habibie Center in Bali, Indonesia, next week for a Track II Quad-Plus dialogue to discuss ways to enhance cooperation in defence, regional security and counterterrorism.
...
The two sides advanced their counterterrorism dialogue and recommitted to cooperating against Pakistan-based groups such as the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT). There is confusion about whether Pakistan is cracking down on the LeT front organisation, Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD), led by the LeT founder, Hafiz Mohammad Saeed.
...
Mr. Modi has stayed away from communal politicking and has signalled that he is more interested in focussing on his economic agenda, rather than in pursuing Hindutva policies. He has taken steps to reach out to the Muslim community. For instance, during his first speech to Parliament last June, he said it was unacceptable that the Muslim minority often lagged behind the rest of the country in socio-economic terms.

But he needs to reaffirm his commitment to religious freedom and show that he is not beholden to those pushing a hardline Hindutva agenda. Failing to do so could harm the BJP government’s international reputation and dampen India-U.S. ties.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 30 Jan 2015 23:11

Slightly amusing to see Kissinger and Albright's testimony in recent US Congressional (Senate Armed Services Committee) hearing.
(The one in which McCain got mad and called the police because a few people chanted inside "Arrest Kissinger the War Criminal")

Here is a story in one paper..
India is now entering the Asia equation: Henry Kissinger

India is now entering the Asia equation which as of now is being dominated by China, a former top US diplomat and national strategist said today, days after President Barack Obama’s successful visit to the country.
A special aspect of any Asian system will be the relationship between the US and China, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger told members of the Senate Armed Services Committee during a Congressional hearing.
“Now India is entering this equation. With vast economic potential, a vibrant democracy, and cultural links to Asia, the Middle East, and the West, India plays a growing role that the United States will naturally welcome. The emphasis should be on social and political alignments, not strategic groupings,” Kissinger said.
He said the equation between United States and China is often described as one between a rising power and an established power.
“Two successive American and Chinese presidents have announced their joint aim to deal with this matter on the basis of cooperation.
Significant spokesmen in both countries have stressed the adversarial aspect. The direction taken will play a defining role in our period,” Kissinger said.
He noted in Asia, many economies and societies are flourishing. “At the same time, a number of these countries are contesting with each other over territorial claims, so far without clear limits or arrangements to constrain their rivalries. This introduces a measure of volatility to even seemingly local disputes.”
The former top American diplomat said that the US finds itself in a paradoxical situation.
“By any standard of national capacity, we are in a position to achieve our objectives and to shape international affairs,” he said.
“Yet as we look around the world, we encounter upheaval and conflict. The United States has not faced a more diverse and complex array of crises since the end of the Second World War,” Kissinger said.
“One reason is that the nature of strategy has shifted from an emphasis on objective strength, to include a major component defined by psychological contests and asymmetric war. A second reason is that the existing international order itself is being redefined,” he added.
Testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee, former Secretary of State Madeline Albright said, “the United States should also stay vigorously engaged in Asia, where the administration’s rebalance has reinforced commitments to allies such as Japan and the Republic of Korea, built stronger partnerships with India and the nations of Southeast Asia, created new opportunities for regional trade, and helped expand engagement with China on economic, diplomatic, and military issues.”
“The President’s historic trip to India this week cemented the positive progress we are making in strengthening another vital relationship in the region,” Albright said

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 30 Jan 2015 23:53

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/01/27/how ... mic-state/

Just so sweet that the pompous mofos in the US FP crowd want India to get onto the ISIS's crosshairs, even as they preach about "religious tolerance" to Indian yindoos and also fund the paki army mofos to get at India at the same time. If India had followed the advice of the strategetic analeests in India that were pushing India into Iraq -- ISIS would have good reason to focus on India at this time. Best that ISIS focus on KSA/USA/EU and their allies, even as they fight their wars for world domination.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Jan 2015 00:21

I think we still have the same problem continuing.. as was in the past of thinking US, Russia .. P5 are superior to SDRE indics.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 31 Jan 2015 00:41

All those platitudes by the hasbeens (Sri Kissinger, and Smt. Albright) are so that India will help the US/allies (nay - axis) out in `Syria/Iran/ISIS. Unfortunately these are the two worthies who were part of the retinue of public servants who the American bed. Unfortunately they are going to sleep in Ritz-Carletons and American proletariat has to sleep in the bed made by these.

By the way, these two are way past their sell date. They still think that their old tricks will still work .World has moved on leaving these two and Sri Zbig behind to watch it go by from their window.

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 31 Jan 2015 00:51

Henry Kissinger cannot be forgiven until he unconditionally apologizes and acknowledges his disastrous role in the 1971 genocide and for the death of 3843 Indian soldiers that laid down their lives for the liberation of Bangladesh.

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 31 Jan 2015 04:37

Sorry for the OT: But I remember reading here some years ago that there were camps run by ex-US servicemen and CIA for Khalistani terrorists, either in Virgina or South Carolina. Is there a link to an article or paper that talks about this?

Thanks

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 31 Jan 2015 05:04

krithivas wrote:Henry Kissinger cannot be forgiven until he unconditionally apologizes and acknowledges his disastrous role in the 1971 genocide and for the death of 3843 Indian soldiers that laid down their lives for the liberation of Bangladesh.

Well, you're not alone.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/protesters ... ar-crimes/

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 31 Jan 2015 05:57

krithivas wrote:Henry Kissinger cannot be forgiven until he unconditionally apologizes and acknowledges his disastrous role in the 1971 genocide and for the death of 3843 Indian soldiers that laid down their lives for the liberation of Bangladesh.

Why do we need to go anywhere near this gent?? Let him rot where he is.

Just ignore this biased anti Indian bigot.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Jan 2015 06:37

you can still ignore him without this language.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 31 Jan 2015 06:42

MurthyB wrote:Sorry for the OT: But I remember reading here some years ago that there were camps run by ex-US servicemen and CIA for Khalistani terrorists, either in Virgina or South Carolina. Is there a link to an article or paper that talks about this?

Thanks

such links are not allowed in BRF, because it will interfere with GoI...but someone can post it after .......{ducks for cover}

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 31 Jan 2015 07:30

Ajatshatru wrote:"Stop Being Indian-American"!?!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/parthiv-n ... 19042.html

Absurd? But that is precisely what Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal recently suggested. In a prepared statement obtained by POLITICO, which (at the time of this writing) was scheduled to be delivered at the conservative Henry Jackson Society in London, Jindal states:

"I do not believe in hyphenated Americans." The statement further quotes him as saying, "My dad and mom told my brother and me that we came to America to be Americans -- not Indian-Americans." And, "If we wanted to be Indians, we would have stayed in India."

Maybe there is some drainex sort of compound that will help scrub this poor tortured soul of his Indian genes??

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 31 Jan 2015 07:53

All that Gov Jindal is saying is that just as one can be an Indian and support America and keep looking to America and genuflect b4 America and hang on every word of the American Prejdent and ask him to please please tell off Hindootva onlee,

so can one be an American and admire and worship NaMO and Madhuri Dixit (oh, wait! she IS an American already!) and Jayalalithaaa and so on.

Exactly what is the problem with that?

Jindal does not have to call himself an Indian-American to support India, just as Jewish ppl in the US don't have to call themselves Israeli-American to be 100% loyal supporters and even presumed-citjens of Israel. Every heard of KissMahAssinger describing himself as an Israeli-American? Ever heard all those who go genuflect b4 Her Neigh-ness Queen Eli-2 describe themselves as British-Americans? Do Americans of French descent describe themselves as French-Americans? Why do only non-whites feel compelled to be 'hyphenated"?

Minnesota has 885,661 Americans of Norwegian descent. Not a single one would describe itself as a "Norwegian-American". California has 600,000 Americans of Swedish descent: they don't call themselves "Swedish Americans". There are some 50 million Americans of German origin: none can be heard describing themselves as German-Americans.

Does Arnold Schwarzzenegger describe himself as an Austrian-American?

Why then is it required by BRFee diktat that all Americans of INDIAN origin/genes should be sure to describe themselves as Indian Americans?

Maybe some here feel that people of INDIAN origin don't really BELONG in America, so they should go around wearing big labels? Required to wear a saffron-green-white armband all the time? Or its OK to just go around being oneself?

I don't understand why people here feel compelled to attack Gov. Jindal for stating plain common sense. Has he ever been heard attacking India? Has Gov. Nikki Haley been heard attacking India? Do you have any idea how much good these people have actually done for India? No I don't, just asking if you do.., but I know that they have ever done any damage either. They are both known for being extremely EFFECIVE Governors, both in the toughest states of the USA to be Governors (most of their predecessors are serving long sentences in the state pen).

So Gov. Cuomo can be just an American, not forced to call himself always Eyetalian American. Pres. Obama can call himself American, not Kenyan-American. But Gov. Jindal is not allowed to call himself American because, hey, LOOK! He's BROWN! Just like ME! And I AM NOT A GOVERNOR!

How DARE he be one?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 31 Jan 2015 08:01

^^^^^

Point well taken, sir.

Never quite saw it like that before.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 31 Jan 2015 08:16

Just feeling in a particularly obnoxious mood.

I think we have to start seeing things OUR way from now on. Realized it when I looked at BO's statement about relijjius toler-antz etc and realized that it was just a matter of changing one's lens. BO compliment Indians on the religious tolerance part in the Fundamental Rights of the Indian Constitution, and NaMO compliment Americans on the Voting Rights Act and the First Amendment. Why not? Be Happy! Be confident!

If The Queen likewise compliments Indians, compliment the British on the Magna Carta. On Abolitionism. On Wimmen's Suffrage. Even on beating the Sierra Leone Happy Boyz in war. Eventually. And say how few PoorHouses and WorkHouses there are these days. How Oliver Twist might feel safe on the streets (except in Brixton and Birmingham). On no Scottish queen having been beheaded for oh! well over 200 years now!

Compliment Angela Merkel on closing down the Soap Factories. This could be big business: sell Compliment Cards. One to Japan on ending the practise of keeping Korean women enslaved as "joy women" or whatever they called them. One to China on closing the Gobi Deselt LeEducation Centel.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 31 Jan 2015 08:17

UlanBatori wrote:Jindal does not have to call himself an Indian-American to support India, just as Jewish ppl in the US don't have to call themselves Israeli-American to be 100% loyal supporters and even presumed-citjens of Israel. Every heard of KissMahAssinger describing himself as an Israeli-American? Ever heard all those who go genuflect b4 Her Neigh-ness Queen Eli-2 describe themselves as British-Americans? Do Americans of French descent describe themselves as French-Americans? Why do only non-whites feel compelled to be 'hyphenated"?

Irish-American, Jewish American, Italian American, Greek American, Polish American - all very common terms and these hyphenations have been around since the beginning of emigration from these regions to the New World.

If Jindal had something like "I prefer to term myself American rather than Indian-American" that would have been OK. But he went WAY beyond that... He says he does not believe in hyphenated Americans (terminology that has traditionally been as American as apple pie) - and goes on to actively debunk the hyphenated American concept. That certainly calls for pushback from the folks who do believe in hyphenated Americans.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 31 Jan 2015 08:19

Not for second/third generation Americans.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 31 Jan 2015 08:20

The terms have been around since the discovery of the New World, so have murder and slavery and rape, but Gov. Jindal's point is that it is not necessary to go around wearing those as chains.

French ppl (1st gen) who became US citjens are still citjens of France, with voting rights, still. But they DO NOT call themselves French-Americans. (They just go around with their noses in the air, proud of the nation that surrendered to Britain, to Germany, to Algeria, to Vietnam and now to the Ummah).

I am just saying that the hostility towards Gov. Jindal is largely unwarranted. OK, I am saying that to clear my conscience. my skin crawls to see him spout his pseudo-T-Party Hitler Jugend philosophies. But the man has a clear record as BY FAR the best Governor Louisiana has had since the Civil War.

Haley amazes me: South Carolina is a perpetual strong contender for most Pakistani State in the USA, yet THEY elected HER? And she seems to be doing extremely well: SC politics have not been in the news now since she got elected. Efficient. Quiet. Dynamic. Now all one hears is about Boeing moving to SC, BMW has moved to SC, GE has moved to SC.... it is THE place to move to, in order to do bijnej. Just came out with the first Encyclopedia on Hinduism, considered to be very good.

Louisiana has had a nightmare decade, with the hurricanes etc. But they seem to be building up too. IMO, the impression being created is: want good government? want to come into the 21st century? Elect an Indian-looking American. They can do math. They are extremely good gubernors!

But sadly, the desi community is behind only the KKK in hating these people for their perceived religious non-ideal behavior. Or something. Seems like they can do no right.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Jan 2015 08:29

Jindal is questioning the mosaic framework of Amercan culture. Nor does he accept the melting pot. What his saying is after naturalization or birth, Americans are Americans and no hyphen or wink wink not one us.

Its the subaltern asserting. Why not let him?

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 31 Jan 2015 08:32

UlanBatori wrote:The terms have been around since the discovery of the New World, so have murder and slavery and rape, but Gov. Jindal's point is that it is not necessary to go around wearing those as chains. .

If you think of these terms as chains, don't use them yourself - but don't impose your views on others who see the terms more as a badge of honor.

Everyone needs to have pride in their origins - but at the same time subscribe to one set of national values. That is very much the Indian way - and the American way.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 31 Jan 2015 08:32

Well, I think the basic question is: Idea of America. What is America's identity?

If America is defined as a white country, then the non-whites will be hyphenated. If America is defined as a country of its locals, then all immigrants(including the europeans) would be hyphenated.

Let us see who are hyphenated:
African-Americans
Indian-Americans
Latin-Americans

Is there an European-American? No. But, note that even the original Americans are called 'native-americans', so even they had been hyphenated. What does that mean? It means when there is no hyphenation, it refers to white Americans. For non-white Americans, there is an explicit hyphenated tag. That means, America implies white implicitly.

Is the message of Jindal is that non-whites(i.e. non-Americans) should stop wearing their culture on their sleeves and instead try to assimilate(imitate) the American(i.e. white) culture? If so, then he must realize that as long as America is defined as white, a non-white can never be completely assimilated.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 31 Jan 2015 08:35

but don't impose your views on others who

Exactly. Excellent advice to advice onself.
Gov. Jindal stated his view. Why feel compelled to attack him for that? I don't think Jindal has passed a law prohibiting Lousianic-Americans from stating that they are Louisianic-Americans, has he?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 31 Jan 2015 08:37

All just political maaya onlee. Nobody says 'I will work for votes', because it will not get votes. Push the emotions, ka-Ching votes pour through the roof onlee. Well, Modi might be different....India direly needed a PM who would work for the country.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 31 Jan 2015 08:45

As (British-American) Ronald Reagan would have said: There u go again:

and instead try to assimilate(imitate) the American(i.e. white) culture?

WHY is it "assimilating(imitating) the American (i.e. white)" to say: I live in America, I pay taxes, I vote, therefore I am American. Period. That is ALL that Jindal has been saying, and I say, more power to him.

Reminds me of the (******-American) girl who asked me

Where are u from?

Ulan Bator.

But no, you can't be, not with a name like that! Like, Ah'm from Yoolan Bator!

"I've lived and paid taxes in Ulan Bator since before you were in diapers, so why not?"

Now that is not because I am not proud of my Gujranwali heritage, but the fact is that I am "from" wherever I have lived the longest, if I feel like claiming that that day (mainly to irritate the airhead, but that is a different question)

Should Parsis living in Mumbai be compelled to describe themselves as Iranian-Indians? Should Smt. Mumtaz?

You don't think they are proud of their Persian heritage?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 31 Jan 2015 08:57

Mumtaz is always mumtaz-pertynose.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 31 Jan 2015 08:58

UlanBatori wrote:Gov. Jindal stated his view. Why feel compelled to attack him for that? I don't think Jindal has passed a law prohibiting Lousianic-Americans from stating that they are Louisianic-Americans, has he?

There is no attack. Its just a strong difference of opinion. And I am speaking from an American POV here - not an Indian one, by the way.

I believe the presence of hyphenated Americans is to be celebrated (as long as these groups subscribe to liberal American values). Jindal does not believe in even celebrating the concept of hyphenated Americans.

The equivalent Indian concept incidentally is to celebrate the presence of different jatis in India, while subscribing to one set of Indic values.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 31 Jan 2015 08:59

Arjun ji: when the Americans say Indian-Americans are not really full Americans and want to give more rights to Americans then where are we Amerigai going to be, eh?

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 31 Jan 2015 09:02

matrimc wrote:Arjun ji: when the Americans say Indian-Americans are not really full Americans and want to give more rights to Americans then where are we Amerigai going to be, eh?

How is that consistent with liberal American values - to discriminate on the basis of origin ?

On the other hand, it is fair to discriminate on the basis of values. If you believe in Sharia over constitutional law - you do not deserve a place in America.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 31 Jan 2015 09:04

UB, but none of the others cited in your example - gubernator, cuomo etc go out of their way to distance / disown themselves from their heritage either.

it is when see from that angle, it looks like piyush

jindal is continuing the distance/disown thing.

no other prominent politician of other heritage does this sort of distancing from their heritage. many do embrace it politically at least when playing to that group.

jindal does an ulta. he plays to the republican crowd that he is not indian.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 31 Jan 2015 09:19

Arjun wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:The terms have been around since the discovery of the New World, so have murder and slavery and rape, but Gov. Jindal's point is that it is not necessary to go around wearing those as chains. .
If you think of these terms as chains, don't use them yourself - but don't impose your views on others who see the terms more as a badge of honor.

Everyone needs to have pride in their origins - but at the same time subscribe to one set of national values. That is very much the Indian way - and the American way.

Problem with Piyush Jindal is that he is ashamed of his Indian roots, he converted his religion, all so that he could in his mind be indistinguishable from Americans. I imagine if Piyush bhai was to run for prez, someone would ask about his pagan religion and sdre background.
While he is running from his roots, most white immigrants are proud of their roots. I don't think Piyushbhai would be caught dead visiting his relatives in India. This is no commentary on his skills and ability as a governor.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 31 Jan 2015 09:45

Arjun wrote: If you believe in Sharia over constitutional law - you do not deserve a place in America.

Is your case that if somebody calls herself Muslim-american, then by default she believes in IsIS and died not have a place in America.

How about hindu-american? I am a (lapsed)hindu-American and a vegetarian? So I automayically become a vegetarian rapist?

The haddi in the kebab is the First amendment,myou see. there is no difference between xxxx-american and american. Period.

By the way same is true in India. Same same.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 31 Jan 2015 09:58

Part of the identity problem is that when one says he is Jewish-American, he may have come from Israel, Russia or any of several countries in Europe. Same for Latin-Americans and South America, Chinese-Americans and Asia. But Indian-Americans come only from India. Even Pakis and BDs call themselves Indian-American to slink by and run "Indian" restaurants and grocery stores. Only Jindal hizzoner wants to wash hiz Indianness completely off hizzelf.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 31 Jan 2015 10:13

johneeG wrote:Well, I think the basic question is: Idea of America. What is America's identity?

If America is defined as a white country, then the non-whites will be hyphenated.
Latin-Americans

Native americans are the real McCoy. All others are hyphenated amrus even though not hyphenated in common parlance.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 31 Jan 2015 10:15

Gus wrote:no other prominent politician of other heritage does this sort of distancing from their heritage.

Because theirs is an abrahamic heritage.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 31 Jan 2015 10:24

matrimc wrote:Is your case that if somebody calls herself Muslim-american, then by default she believes in IsIS and died not have a place in America.

No, that's not my case. Religion can never be taken to automatically imply associated values - but merely propensity to believe in the values. Whether or not a specific individual subscribes to those values can only be ascertained through other means.

The haddi in the kebab is the First amendment,myou see. there is no difference between xxxx-american and american. Period

The West suffers from a terminological deficiency that needs to be rectified at some stage.

The West says no discrimination on the basis of Religion. But Religion actually comprises of Faith (Bhakti Marg to use a more effective Indian term), Cultural Traditions and Values.

There can never be discrimination on the basis of Faith / Bhakti Marg / personal God.
There can never be discrimination on the basis of one's Cultural Traditions (as long as they don't violate existing laws).
There can however be discrimination on the basis of Values.

There is therefore a bit of a disconnect that is bound to become more acute in the future in the assertion of non-discrimination on the basis of Religion. One way as I mentioned earlier - is to assume that Religion does not automatically imply certain values - but check on those values through other means.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 31 Jan 2015 10:52

I thought only mathematical types come up with impractical ideas. Chalo, calling it a night.