India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 14 Mar 2015 00:36

Inviting the christian fundamentalist rat ba***** Obama to India's republic day was a mistake. The other question is what was the reason for the aholes in the Hindu to provide the USCIRF a voice and make this plea? The day the Hindu burns to the ground under debt will be a good day.

On second thought, ignoring the USCIRF is probably the best approach. No need to acknowledge the Lantos-type aholes in the USA.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 14 Mar 2015 00:57

The kind of politics we have imported also comes with such ganging up:

The Commissioner also underscored the U.S.’ concerns regarding continuing violations of religious freedom rights of minorities in India, including attacks on churches in New Delhi

Didn't mention 'just before elections'.

However, point to note is that USCIRF is NOT reporting about news from within USA. It is 'abroad' only commission, and Indians in no way has stopped the commission to probe any incidents within USA.

By the way, this happened during 'annual prayer breakfast' in a speech by a speaker called Darrel Waltrip (member of NASCAR Hall of Fame):

Four minute segment of Darrell Waltrip's keynote address to 3600 hundred people attending the President's National Prayer Breakfast. President Obama, the Dalai Lama and hundreds of others present to hear this speech about Heaven and Hell. (segment cut from C-Span Youtube)

youtube link: good guys go to hell .
The mention of this national prayer basket, where Pres. Obama expressed some views about religion etc., seems to be conspicuously absent in remarks by USCIRF member.

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Mar 2015 11:58

Bangladesh newspaper The Daily Star reprints article that appeared in the October 1971 issue of Foreign Affairs by Sydney H. Schanberg titled “Pakistan Divided”.

The US’s Equal=Equal policy it appears was discredited way back then but yet the US refused to kill it off:

Most Asia analysts feel that in clinging to its notion of maintaining a balance between India and Pakistan and in treating the current crisis as an Indo-Pak dispute, Washington is pursuing an unrealistic and shortsighted policy. They believe that Pakistan cannot be treated as equal to India -- in size, importance, democratic traditions or stability -- and that the realistic course for Washington would be to try to persuade Pakistan to adjust to a secondary role instead of inflating its delusions.

Pakistan Divided

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 14 Mar 2015 12:43

^
My takeaway line is highlighted one

The United States has been straddling the fence in the crisis, and the role has drawn worldwide attention and criticism. In India, it is regarded as a betrayal, and U.S.-Indian relations have plunged to a new low. Washington has apparently decided that it is impossible to separate the East Pakistani upheaval from the emerging Indo-Pakistan confrontation and that such punitive acts as stoppage of aid or public moral denunciation of the military repression would be counterproductive. Washington seems to be still wedded to its view of Pakistan as a "balance" against India on the subcontinent. There is also a reluctance to abandon the huge U.S. financial investment in Pakistan and even more so to concede that the old policy of massive military and economic aid was, on balance, a failure -- that it fostered development only in West Pakistan and thus helped fuel Bengali bitterness. From 1954 to 1965, a decade of idyllic U.S.-Pakistan relations, Washington outfitted and trained the Pakistani armed forces, and Pakistan became a member of CENTO and SE ATO, both pro-Western, anti-communist military alliances. During this period--when Pakistan was having problems with the Russians and Chinese--the Americans gave the Pakistanis what has been estimated at $1.7 billion in military aid alone (although it may be far less). The economic aid was even greater.

There is not much difference between "==" and "balance" game on the ground BUT an "equal-equal" can still be justified using examples of UN General assembly vote, WTO vote, etc. It can still be spun as some kind of positive as every one being equal and all countries enjoying equal rights/votes/etc.

However, using Pakistan as a "balance" against India makes the American objective wrt India rather stark. The Americans deliberately cultivate Bakistan to act as a counter against India just as they desire to use India as a counter to China.

We don't need the words of an American jurno to understand this basic truth about Indo-US relations. Any *objective* observer of US policy (Acts of omission and commission) wrt the Indian sub-continent would reach the same conclusion.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Mar 2015 21:03

Rajeev Srinivasan explores
US Deep State and India's daughter-is India new axis of evil?

US Deep State and 'India's Daughter': Is India now part of a new 'axis of evil'?

by Rajeev Srinivasan Mar 13, 2015 01:00 IST

Many have expressed opinions about the artistic and ethical merits (or otherwise) of the video India’s Daughter – a documentary on the victim of the December 2012 Delhi gangrape which included interviews with her rapists. These points are worth pondering. On the other hand, nobody has quite answered the question as to why this video was made, and why it was made into a cause celebre right now. I suggest that it is not about the victim nor about her rapist, or about women’s rights at all. It is about the discovery of a new Axis of Evil by America - and the Deep State that lies behind it.

America does not merely mean the US of A. It means both the main Anglo-Saxon protestant nations, the other being the United Kingdom. The two are a package for the simple reason that where America leads, the UK follows. Whether it is the fraudulent search for non-existent weapons of mass destruction, or the fight against real or imagined terror, or anything to do with any global issue, Britain is the lamb following the US (Bloody) Mary, right or wrong. The US Deep State includes Britain. The British tail wags frenetically on a mere wink-and-a-nod from Uncle Sam. So when the US defines its enemies or indicates the countries to be placed in the doghouse, Britain follows unquestioningly.

The old Axis of Evil was posited by former US President George W Bush in 2002. If you recall, he suggested that the axis of evil in the world was North Korea, Iran and Iraq. It was a bit of an exaggeration then too, of course: there were several American “allies” who belonged in that list too, such as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and China.

They were an odd threesome. North Korea was a Chinese cat’s-paw (and still is). Iran and Iraq were bitter enemies and had fought a disastrous war with each other. Just about the only thing the three had in common with one another was that the US was upset with them - for various reasons: North Korea, becaus it threatened ally South Korea; Iran the 444-day hostage crisis that humiliated the US, and because Israel is paranoid about it; and Iraq because, well… the US had fallen out with President Saddam Hussein after befriending him earlier.

Fast forward to today, and you see the results. Iraq is destroyed, a western embargo killed 500,000 of its children, and it is now reeling under ISIS. Iran has endured a bitter decade of ostracism, negligible growth and some real hardship (although they are being rehabilitated now). North Korea continues to be, by all accounts, a miserable nation.

Leslee Udwin. Ibnlive

So what exactly is an “axis of evil”? It is simply a list of countries that the US is unhappy with at any moment, for some reason; and it may also have something to do with animosity towards a leader, as in the case of Presidents Ahmedinejad of Iran and Saddam Hussein of Iraq, and perhaps the rather difficult President Kim Jong-il of North Korea.

Is there a new “Axis of Evil” now? The evidence suggests that there is, and that it is Russia, Japan and (probably) India. The animosity is levelled at the leaders of the three countries, President Vladimir Putin of Russia, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, and Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India. All three of them are seen as thwarting America’s plans to some degree, and therefore, ipso facto, they must be evil.

Putin is pursuing policies that benefit Russia. One of these is the equivalent of a Truman Doctrine in ex-Soviet states: that they may not stray too far from the fulsome embrace of Mother Russia. This may or may not be a fantasy about re-creating the old Soviet Union, though that would be beyond Russia’s straitened circumstances. However, it is clear that in the near-abroad, eg. Georgia and Ukraine, Russia will not cede ground. Thus the Ukraine war was brought about by the West which underestimated Russian resolve. They should have remembered Stalingrad.

In the case of both Japan and India, they have new-ish leaders who have quite clearly embraced nationalism and will be unwilling to quietly toe the American line. This is enough reason to want to create trouble for them, and if possible, emasculate and defang them. Abe’s efforts to repeal the pacifist Article 9 of his constitution, which was written by American occupiers, is unpopular with Americans, and they have criticised Abe loudly.

As far as India is concerned, Narendra Modi has endured a dozen years of harsh personal and political vilification, with the Indian English media a willing comprador for western efforts to tie him up in court and shame him. The withering criticism and persistent efforts to exclude Modi from office are dreamt up by clever strategic analysts in the West and executed by their loyal sepoys in India.

The tactic, then, has been to demonise all three and to create ‘facts’ on the ground that would lead them to feeling constrained by so-called ‘international public opinion’. The pages of The Economist magazine are a convenient proxy for Nato’s (and the US State Department’s and the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s) views. And the evidence is telling: the magazine has consistently attacked Putin, blamed Abe for his entirely reasonable (in my humble opinion) visits to the Yasukuni shrine that honours his war dead, and endorsed not Modi but his enigmatic opponent, Rahul Gandhi.

I think there is enough out there to suggest that the West is out to get these three men, and their countries, who seem to be on the point of escaping from Western overlordship.

If so, why did this vile film by Leslie Udwin come out right now? I call it vile because of several reasons, apart from the Udwin’s own insufferable priggishness, which I attribute to her bearing the “White Woman’s Burden” (I wrote about this meme in my 1998 piece “Speaking of Women”).

First, it is a dishonest film, possibly made with malafide intent and ill-motivation, much like Deepa Mehta’s Fire some years ago, which was intended to malign Hindu men and suggest religious conversion as the answer for Hindu women: pretty much the same that India’s Daughter does too, subtly. Avanindra Pandey, the Delhi gangrape victim's friend and the only eye-witness to the savagery, has roundly condemned the film as ‘a fake film’.

Second, the agony of poor, dead Delhi gangrape victim and her family. There is something altogether monstrous in deceiving them; something ghoulish in generating profits from the dead. Can’t the Delhi gangrape victim escape exploitation even after she was so gruesomely disembowelled and murdered? Christopher Hitchens once accused Mother Teresa of being the ghoul of Kolkata, and again for the same reason: conversion and easy money.

Third, the tremendous amount of ill-will it has generated for India, once again reminiscent of M Teresa: she single-handedly created a billion dollars’ worth of bad publicity for India, and so has this Leslie Udwin. It should not surprise us that a professor named Annette Beck-Sickinger in Leipzig in former East Germany actually wrote to a male Indian applicant that she could not give him an internship because she was afraid he’d be a menace to the women in her department. (By the way, why is this obvious racist not being tarred, feathered, and drummed out of her university?) We should not be surprised, either, if some totally innocent Indian man is attacked by Western racists who call him a ‘rapist’. (Incidentally, the relative silence in India on the stabbing to death of Prabha Arun Kumar in a Sydney park is nothing short of shocking).

Fourth, BJP MP Meenakshi Lekhi, a lawyer, pointed out in The Indian Express that Udwin broke the law, for example by violating the terms of her agreement to not show the film while the case was still under trial, lest it prejudice judges. If this film is the root cause of a mistrial - the rapists’ lawyers can argue that their clients could not expect a fair hearing - that would be a serious problem. Besides, the filmmakers ignored a direct request from the Indian government to cease and desist.

Fifth, the film, if shown widely, can trigger vigilante justice. In Christian-majority Nagaland, a 1,000-strong mob dragged an alleged Muslim rapist (who had allegedly raped a Christian girl) from a jail and beat him to death publicly (although there is some doubt about there being non-consensual sex). This may have nothing to do with India’s Daughter, but who can be sure the film will not trigger anger against alleged rapists if shown widely?

Sixth, the indirect connections to Hillary Clinton and Madeleine Albright - Clinton is sponsoring the showing of the film in New York - are big question marks (see the diagram from a tweet by @trackevangelism below). Plan International, Udwin’s quango, is sponsored by the US government. Coupled with the Devyani Khobragade incident (“Indians treat Christian maids as slave labour”), the denial of a visa to Modi, and the influence of what appears to be anti-India personnel on her staff suggest that a possible Clinton presidency would be extremely harmful for India, and we are getting a sneak preview of it.

There are indications that the Ford Foundation is involved in all this (although they have plausible deniability), and given long-standing Ford Foundation-CIA links, it takes on suspicious overtones. Regime change, anybody? Or “the forcible removal of Narendra Modi”, as Karan Thapar once blurted out? The ghosts of Mossadegh of Iran and Salvador Allende of Chile are reminders that people thwart the US at some personal peril. (See Kishen Kak’s piece at www.indiafacts.co.in here)

The only semi-reason for anybody to support the film - as several arch-bigots who pretend to be liberals have been shouting from the rooftops - is freedom of expression. But that is a contentious issue. As I said years ago in The Problem with ‘Fire’, there are no absolute freedoms. You have to be cognisant of the impact on others, that is, you will not cry ‘Fire’ in a crowded theatre (no pun intended) even though yes, you have the right to do so.

No, I believe the evidence is strong that it is not random, but part of a calculated assault on Narendra Modi’s administration. A roadmap was set out in The Economist of 14 February. “…Destabilisation is also being achieved in less military ways. Wielding power or gaining influence abroad—through anti-establishment political parties, disgruntled minority groups, media outlets, environmental activists, supporters in business, propagandist “think tanks”, and others—has become part of xxx’s hybrid-war strategy. This perversion of “soft power” is seen by xxx as a vital complement to military engagement…”.

A more lucid articulation of the West’s tactics against Russia, Japan and India (and particularly against Modi) would be hard to find: thank you, The Economist. But ironically, this was in a piece accusing Putin, titled “What Russia wants”. This is generally true: the West accuses others of doing what, in fact, it does itself.

Look at India: political parties (AAP), minority groups (churches, godmen), media outlets (the entire MSM), environmental activists (Kudankulam agitators), supporters in business (those funding chairs and classics at Harvard and Oxford), thinktanks (you name them). Yes, all the classical angles of subversion, just as The Economist suggests. A particularly interesting group is the “Armed Conflict Resolution and People’s Rights” Project at UC, Berkeley: See my earlier article here on their dubious goals and see their website for the alarming list of working group members, including Chatterji, Setalvad, Mander - all known Modi-baiters.

Why, one might wonder, are these tactics not used against China, which is a bigger threat to the West? The simple answer is that the Chinese are jingoistic, racist and supremacist – they believe in “Chinese exceptionalism” – and they will not betray their country for 30 pieces of silver. Alas, Indians are none of the above, and will happily sell their nation down the river for a pittance.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 14 Mar 2015 21:51

some observations,

The Sydney park incident, there is no condemnation in the MSM of Australian culture etc and the comments sections are close to empty

Egypt's mass uprising against Morsi is the template, and any banning of social media (facebook, twitter) under foreign jurisdiction will be twisted as muzzling freedom of expression, in that sense BBC has thrown a challenge to GoI with the documentary, this seems more like it has already been gamed.

Chinese while a ethnic common lot are easy targets for their govt. should they cross the line and which doesn't much care about bad publicity, any Chinese students getting denied admissions or a visa on those grounds? in fact Germans are big partners with them. This is where the Chinese see the Indian democracy unable to respond tying itself into knots.

Maybe National Interest Waivers can be made outside the purview of Indian Judiciary aka Black hole, in prosecuting these issues, especially foreign related. Recently, the US Supreme court stepped away from hearing the Guantanamo survivors petitions citing 'no jurisdiction'

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 15 Mar 2015 00:14

^^^"The Sydney park incident, there is no condemnation in the MSM of Australian culture etc and the comments sections are close to empty"

Our media and GoI are inward looking. Our soft power is exercised defensively. Where is our annual report on religious freedom and racism? Our private media is besotted with bollywood, cricket, food and local horror stories. Could Doordarshan not have functioned as our Beeb? Instead we get high pitched screaming about President 11

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 15 Mar 2015 05:16

one guy tearing the US rape mongers a new one

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2424566

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 15 Mar 2015 06:34

Cosmo_R wrote:Our soft power is exercised defensively. Where is our annual report on religious freedom and racism? Our private media is besotted with bollywood, cricket, food and local horror stories. Could Doordarshan not have functioned as our Beeb? Instead we get high pitched screaming about President 11

Sire: I put it to you that the highlighted part above is not exercising soft but hard power. I posit that there is nothing like "soft power". Everything is hard power.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 15 Mar 2015 07:05

Christian Woman pleads guilty in fatal subway shove laced with hatred towards Hindus

A woman has admitted shoving a Hindu man off a New York City subway platform to his death in an attack motivated by religious animus.

Erika Menendez pleaded guilty to manslaughter on Friday for killing Sunando Sen in December 2012 in Queens.

Menendez pushed Sen off a No. 7 train platform. An oncoming train crushed him.

Menendez told police she did it because she has hated Muslims and Hindus since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

Queens District Attorney Richard Brown calls the killing “every subway commuter’s worst nightmare.”

Menendez faces 25 years in prison at her sentencing next month. She could have faced life in prison if convicted of murder.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 15 Mar 2015 07:13

Hope the average Christian is smarter than this.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 15 Mar 2015 07:20

sanjaykumar wrote: Hope the average Christian is smarter than this.

You hope too much.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 15 Mar 2015 07:50

US Deep State and 'India's Daughter': Is India now part of a new 'axis of evil'?

Note, a couple of the entities in the diagram above organized a high profile "US premiere" of the docudrama psy-ops, with Meryl Streep as chief guest.

Vital Voices Global Partnership and Plan International Host U.S. Premiere of India's Daughter

member_26011 · Post by **member_26011** » 15 Mar 2015 08:59

PFI has representation from Indian govt., appears largely Indian, why is it funded by USAID and in turn funding PLAN, run by a bBC guy and largely out of India.

member_26011 · Post by **member_26011** » 15 Mar 2015 09:11

A typical undergraduate costs $10/hr, hiring two per campus 10hrs a week, 100 key campuses would be a two million dollar enterprise, including permanent staff, to collect data and disseminate gyan. A budget of 50Cr per annum for this is enough to maintain essential information on campus rape and assault, which is negligible in India but very high in the US. Even 5Cr would do. Sabka bhala bha ho sakta hai. Goiwalla koi padh raha hai to kuch sponsor karein, moi appeal.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 15 Mar 2015 09:38

chand.bhardwaj wrote:A typical undergraduate costs $10/hr, hiring two per campus 10hrs a week, 100 key campuses would be a two million dollar enterprise, including permanent staff, to collect data and disseminate gyan. A budget of 50Cr per annum for this is enough to maintain essential information on campus rape and assault, which is negligible in India but very high in the US. Even 5Cr would do. Sabka bhala bha ho sakta hai. Goiwalla koi padh raha hai to kuch sponsor karein, moi appeal.

All you need is for existing indian ethnic professors to publish the campus security bulletins emailed to them. published rates are high enough. you dont need none of this grassroot democracy.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 15 Mar 2015 13:08

One of the main reason why west may be highlighting this rape in relation to India - Indian history books are being re-written to state with enough documentation that west has raped the world and India got even special treatment. Just like congress party in India may not even get 44 seats next elections and a generation will grow up without knowing congress party, there will be a future generations in India who could in theory grow up and see the west for what they are - trans-national rapists of the world. All the available avenues to create Pankaj Mishras, Arundhoti roy would vanish.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 15 Mar 2015 13:55

I had lively discussion on the subject with black western born guy in the office. He saw the documentary on BBC and though it was not for soft hearted. The argument went bit long and I told him how a nation with 10X times more rapes per 100k person is obsessed about showing one adverse case that happened in India. I said I am not against making documentry per we but it has to be objective they should have published the rape statistics of west and conviction rates too to paint a complete picture rather than putting a one sided story. He agreed and said it looks like colonial mindset in west working !! Absolutely one person enlightened that is one person less in the anti India ideas.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 15 Mar 2015 16:05

100 key campuses would be a two million dollar enterprise, including permanent staff, to collect data and disseminate gyan. A budget of 50Cr per annum for this is enough to maintain essential information on campus rape and assault, which is negligible in India but very high in the US. Even 5Cr would do. Sabka bhala bha ho sakta hai. Goiwalla koi padh raha hai to kuch sponsor karein, moi appeal.

No secret about this since the Clery Act was passed, following campaign triggered by rape-murder of U. Virginia student Ms. Clery.
That would be http://ope.ed.gov/Security/GetDownloadFile.aspx
The Campus Safety and Security Data Analysis Cutting Tool; Office of Post Secondary Education, Department of Education.
Guvrmand site onlee.
Bliss to send a cheap, cheap, cheap $1.999million to Ulan Bator Conspiracy & News Inc, c/o PeeAref Adminullahs.

Murders:
2011: 34
2012: 33
2013: 42

Code: Select all

Forcible Sex Offenses 2011-2013 (total)
2011: 4198	
2012: 4949
2013: 6016

A growth industry, clearly.

member_26011 · Post by **member_26011** » 15 Mar 2015 17:49

The ope site is great and I wasn't aware of it, I can find statistics there, but took only a quick look. But that's not enough IMHO. The material needs to be more than reported summaries, but include information, more than a tweet, less than a thesis. This needs more data to be available at hand, closer to realtime. Going global, e.g. What does ubn have on Leipzig recent assaults? If it is willing to disseminate source material, hey please do send the money to it.

I was also thinking of outreach, through student awareness program. We have a very young caitanya here, who comes every Monday with wife and young son in tow, a phd himself. They cook good food, serve the students who come after some yoga, discuss Vedanta through Gita and answer such white ppl questions as my friend learned Sanskrit and says she can't understand it, it talks of..., with grace. A student woman who participates will typically reject the trash being doled out on the coat tails of current events. Outreach will clearly need more work where 2M (but note 50cr) could seed something, and would be rather hard earned for two UGs to pull off. Not much more than pamphlets and schedules for a monthly tour by someone else. Still connecting data gathering and dissemination would be a meaningful step IMHO.

On the crime bulletins, yes an obvious place to start to get data in near realtime. We have that, thanks.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 15 Mar 2015 18:22

Now there is some old nun is raped in WB and media is runing it. This was captured in CC tv. How CC tvs are there in a convent no one knows.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Mar 2015 18:55

"I too am India's daughter"
http://indiafacts.co.in/i-too-am-indias-daughter/

The director of “India’s Daughter” claims her film should be viewed and debated, even by those who might not agree with her. On the surface, this seems such a reasonable stance. Until you realize that her film is merely a full-length movie version of my dentist’s question. This film only concludes what it has already presupposed. There is no scope for a conversation or a debate in these circumstances. There is nothing to learn. In fact, there is less than nothing to learn.

member_26011 · Post by **member_26011** » 15 Mar 2015 19:10

A response to the Nun report is another in PA. It was posted here but I can't do the link yet. Without getting tired please post it in response where you can, IMHO.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 15 Mar 2015 20:39

A_Gupta wrote:"I too am India's daughter"
http://indiafacts.co.in/i-too-am-indias-daughter/

The director of “India’s Daughter” claims her film should be viewed and debated, even by those who might not agree with her. On the surface, this seems such a reasonable stance. Until you realize that her film is merely a full-length movie version of my dentist’s question. This film only concludes what it has already presupposed. There is no scope for a conversation or a debate in these circumstances. There is nothing to learn. In fact, there is less than nothing to learn.

Clearly this Leslee Udwin (director of “India’s Daughter” ) is a attention seeking individual. A hit job was used to grab headline and an entire media industry is feeding on this

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 15 Mar 2015 21:10

Svinayak: Dr. Satya's article is very good I hope you are referring to Udwin and not Dr. Satya.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 15 Mar 2015 21:27

Fixed''

saip · Post by **saip** » 15 Mar 2015 21:41

I read the CNN report on the Nun. Looks like she was 'gang raped' by one. Rape is heinous I agree but why call it a gang rape when only one committed the act?

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 15 Mar 2015 21:48

I think it is high time to roll up all the rhetoric from the likes of Obama and the americans about being friends of the Indian people (but not the govt.) and have them bend over, so the Indian public can shove their two-faced redneck rhetoric up their glorious american freedom hole.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 15 Mar 2015 23:48

saip wrote:I read the CNN report on the Nun. Looks like she was 'gang raped' by one. Rape is heinous I agree but why call it a gang rape when only one committed the act?

Saip in all due respect, what is your point?

Rape is heinous crime. Period. After Nirbhaya's case most India realizes that it is NOT to be take lightly.

Seriously, think about it, in a land which talks about "Vasudev Kundumkam" .. this victim could be anyone's family member.

Think about it!. Seriously...

Before coming out with..like some one did in the other dhaga.. wondering more about "cc camera in the church', "ghar vapasi' or "criticizing others about talking about ghar vapsi .. or describing victim as "old nun"????

Now, were you present there to witness that the it was "committed by only one"???

What difference is that going to make????

Shameful!

As said before, think of the victim as a family member.. Have we fallen so low that we are asking such questions as if making fun of CNN, or throwing gaalis at chuches.. is more important than protecting citizens...

Yes that was a heinous crime. Please stop trivializing it....

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 15 Mar 2015 23:56

Amber GJi,

If anybody trivialized that rape, it was that Brit b!tch, the Indian sepoys, the Cong traitors (most likely madam) who gave that b!tch permission to p!ss on India and make huge moolah.

If the intent was to show the degenerate pathology of the rapist, and nothing else, and this pathology is the same, be it a white Christian rapist or Hindu rapist, then the documentary would have served a cause.

But instead, this was crass commercial exploitation, white colonial racism masquerading as concern for the rape victim, and to satisfy the colonial urge of a bunch of elitist, self-loathing, deracinated a@s-holes in India who have assumed the mantle of the erstwhile colonialists.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 16 Mar 2015 00:04

Tuvaluan wrote:I think it is high time to roll up all the rhetoric from the likes of Obama and the americans about being friends of the Indian people (but not the govt.) and have them bend over, so the Indian public can shove their two-faced redneck rhetoric up their glorious american freedom hole.

That's not what PM of India (Narendra Modi - who was elected by citizens of India) said during his visit to USA. He spoke (on India's behalf) quite clearly at MSG, central park, white house and other venus.
He articulated it pretty well how India and US are good friends.

And, yes, he invited "likes of Obama" (calling Obama a "friend"). And yes, contrary to "O'bomber" haters.. Obama is an elected president of USA. The invitation to this friend was to attend India's republic day as a chief guest. Obama also spoke quite clearly to both GOI and Indian people on a few occasions.

People like Pankaj Misra and 89% of the posters in Brf who talks non-stop about evil india and/or US, and how they ought to be enemies, are still going like EB's... with no clue .. lot of ignorance and bigotry.Will they ever realize that they have no credibility left among common India and US people.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 16 Mar 2015 00:11

CRamS wrote:Amber GJi,

If anybody trivialized that rape, it was that Brit b!tch, t.

Cramji.. What a class?

Can you even communicate without using words like "B!tch"????
And do you call every female a bitch?
- disgusted beyond words.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 16 Mar 2015 00:20

If US govt. was very much worried by its own crime statistics, why did it allow a British channel BBC do a "poodle cut" at around International Women's Day ie removing reference to crime statistics from all over the world including USA, Australia etc - and while at it from UK too.

More importantly, at whose instance, did an NGO sponsored documentary got its reference to certain countries' crime statistics removed, on the occasion of International Women's Day?

Please read the last line from quote below, the portrayal in the documentary is worthy of banning as per courts, and India is shown as a country where crime rate is exceptional problem alone. So why this selective treatment while not maintaining same standards?
X-posting from Indo-UK thread:
viewtopic.php?p=1812652#p1812652
..

Shonu wrote:Why to blacken India on rape do they have to omit the facts?

A huge row has erupted in India over India’s Daughter, a film made by the BBC on the gang-rape and murder of a young medical student on a Delhi bus in November 2012. What aroused particular anger was how the film, designed to be shown in seven countries to mark International Women’s Day, seemed to want to portray India as the rape capital of the world, with its headline claim that the country has “a rape every 22 minutes”.

But what has also come to light is that when the film was privately previewed in Delhi, its original version included evidence that in many countries in the West the incidence of rape is actually much greater. In Britain, the official Crime Survey for England and Wales 2014 estimated that there are 85,000 rapes every year, or one every six minutes. Equivalent US figures suggest that 1 per cent of all women are sexually assaulted each year, one every 25 seconds.

Those who saw the preview of India’s Daughter in Delhi have testified that the original version did make comparisons with the rest of the world. One, Anna Vetticad, praised it as a “balanced documentary”, because it ended with “worldwide statistics highlighting violence against women from Australia to the US”. But when the final version emerged, all this had been cut out. India was shown standing alone, as a country where rape is an exceptional problem.

What also led the Indian courts to ban showing the film was its portrayal of a country where violence towards women is part of its national culture.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 16 Mar 2015 00:24

Amber G. wrote:That's not what PM of India (Narendra Modi - who was elected by citizens of India) said during his visit to USA. He spoke (on India's behalf) quite clearly at MSG, central park, white house and other venus.
He articulated it pretty well how India and US are good friends.

And, yes, he invited "likes of Obama" (calling Obama a "friend"). And yes, contrary to "O'bomber" haters.. Obama is an elected president of USA. The invitation to this friend was to attend India's republic day as a chief guest. Obama also spoke quite clearly to both GOI and Indian people on a few occasions.

People like Pankaj Misra and 89% of the posters in Brf who talks non-stop about evil india and/or US, and how they ought to be enemies, are still going like EB's... with no clue .. lot of ignorance and bigotry.Will they ever realize that they have no credibility left among common India and US people.

AmberG-ji, with all due respect, I humbly posit that Modi's stand (or anyone's for that matter) is not set in stone. What you refer to about MSG etc. was an example of Modi reaching out to the US, in spite of the hate campaign run by the US (I hope you don't disagree with that). Obama, however, responded by publicly lecturing to us not once, but twice, on something unrelated to India-US relations and in a way that we could not respond to it. Do you honestly think we shouldn't re-evaluate our relations with the US periodically, and in this case, sort of dial it down based on Obama's pronouncements?

<fixed some typos>

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 16 Mar 2015 00:26

That's not what PM of India (Narendra Modi - who was elected by citizens of India) said during his visit to USA. He spoke (on India's behalf) quite clearly at MSG, central park, white house and other venus.
He articulated it pretty well how India and US are good friends.

Utter nonsense. Please use that on 5th graders, if you really have to use that line. There are no friends in international politics, only interests. All this going on about India and US are "friends" is rhetorical nonsense; countries exist to protect their interests and if it takes hollow rhetoric for short term reasons, it will be done. The US finds it in its interests to portray India as a regressive country, even as it refuses to do so for far more regressive countries in the middle east, so what exactly does some speech in Central Park have to do with anything? seriously. Please think a little before writing such nonsense.

US and India will do business as it suits them (or not do business) regardless of what is written in newspapers and online forums. So there is no need to put some positive spin about how the US establishment wants to portray India -- it is pretty clear that they have some motivation to portray it negatively regardless of speeches made by the Indian PM in New york or elsewhere.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 16 Mar 2015 00:28

CRamS ji, I have reported your post.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 16 Mar 2015 00:56

arshyam wrote: AmberG-ji, with all due respect, I humbly posit that Modi's stand (or anyone's for that matter) is not set in stone. What you refer to about MSG etc. was an example of Modi reaching out to the US, in spite of the hate campaign run by the US (I hope you don't disagree with that). Obama, however, responded by publicly lecturing to us not once, but twice, on something unrelated to India-US relations and in a way that we could not respond to it. Do you honestly think we shouldn't re-evaluate our relations with the US periodically, and in this case, sort of dial it down based on Obama's pronouncements?

<fixed some typos>

Arshyam - I may respond to a few points later (if I think it will be helpful) but let me respond to a small point.

Modi's speeches here in US were not covered by MSM, and NYT's Misra type pooh-poohed it, calling it usual "Hindu nationalist/anti secularism propaganda..like mentioning that he was wearing saffron etc.. Most people I know did not fall for it, and they were very impressed with NaMo's energy etc..,

Same thing with Obama.. I think those were historic, excellent speeches.. although some are spinning it as "lectures" etc..The Obama trip, by any account, was extremely successful. Unprecedented to be sure. Of course, the haters gonna hate so they put spin..but Obama did not insult India. In fact, every small indication I get in terms of real values (eg details of scientific collaboration etc) I am amazed at the rate the relationship is becoming better.

Of course, there are many here in US, like EB keep on telling that NaMo is so evil that he was denied Visa, and he should not be trusted as PM of India..

Likewise there are many in India (specially in brf

who warns that US is nothing but bad news...

Most people I know, here in US (or in India) know better. NaMo wouldn't be calling Obama his friend, if he thought US was pure evil.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 16 Mar 2015 00:57

Amber G.

Honest reporting is important. Noone is trivializing rape as a heinous crime.
What if there are riots because of such reporting.

RS

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 16 Mar 2015 01:01

Ok there seems to be some fall out within the sistas. Shoba De was one of those cheer leading this Brit, but now she seems might upset. AmberJi, please read this and tell if that Brit has any class?

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... -leslee-2/

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 16 Mar 2015 01:08

Amber G. wrote:Most people I know, here in US (or in India) know better. NaMo wouldn't be calling Obama his friend, if he thought US was pure evil.

It's good that well educated Americans don't read Namo well.