Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

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Virupaksha
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Virupaksha » 12 Mar 2015 14:30

Mort Walker wrote:The use of the IAS officer for the collector is IMHO a shoe horn solution to a real problem. Yes, the district collector as we know it today is in charge of revenue, distribution, policing and keeping high ranking MLAs happy. It leaves a lot of scope for corruption.
It must go! Such officials need to be elected.
AFAIK, the ZP chairman does not have as much power as a collector because he does not control a larger police force or large revenue distribution.

in the entire set up at the district level, the ias officers are the only non-locals and so there is a reasonable chance that they could be non-partisan to the local interests. One always need to have some non-local element- to ensure checks and balances. Remember they also wear the hat of defacto election commissioners.

Strictly speaking, the ZP and state decides on the budget. The ias officers have some discretionary powers, as the district collector wears many hats at the same time. It was a system designed for a govt which had no money, no men(pure white christian englishmen) to act as the local overlord, which we have continued.

What you are technically asking for multiplying ias (or whatever fancy name) by 10 times. Talk to your local clerks, ias are "i also sign". I know of one ias, who came to a dept and gave heart attacks to 3 people working below because of drive against corruption.

Every elected person is beholden to one group or another, if he/she wants to be reelected. One needs to fine tune the balance between
i) elected representative - representing will of people and has fully known partisan views
ii) unelected bureacracy - make sure that elected representative cannot get away with murder (think CAGs Rai and MMS). To ensure that regular transfers so that they do not get sucked into the local politics.

Remember the golden rule "Every system will be abused." If you decrease the potential for abuse, one has the danger of making it unworkable or too big or too costly. There is also no power or system which will not be abused at the very high levels.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby krithivas » 17 Mar 2015 00:30

This is a 2011 article by Rajiv Malhotra and may have seen its BR days - Re-posting in any case to focus attention on the venom called Christian evangelical missionaries:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-mal ... 41606.html
Most liberal Americans are simply unaware of the international political machinations of evangelicals. Funded and supported by the American Christian right, they promote a literal and extreme version of Christianity abroad and attempt to further a fundamentalist Christian political agenda using unscrupulous methods. In India, picking up where the colonialists left off, they have gone so far as to revive discredited racial theories and fabricate scholarship in a dangerous game of divide and rule.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 19 Mar 2015 08:20

Arun Shourie on Preparing India for the Future
http://www.niticentral.com/2015/03/19/a ... 07398.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=708KEdwjawk

Alluding to the challenge in India of poor and mostly outdated data Mr. Shourie said that even when we have facts they are very dated and hence end up being of little use. Giving the example of a Survey during the UPA government Mr. Shourie pointed out how the then Government came to know that no meaningful jobs were created between 2005 and 2010. The UPA then ordered one more survey in 2012 which found out that 15 millions jobs had been created in two years. He said this was like CBI during the UPA era making the kind of case one wanted to suit the regime in power.
On Land Acquisition he said that it is surprising that only 3% land is taken up and if that is doubled also it will only come to 6% and that wonderful cities can be easily set up in completely non arable land. Mr. Shourie said that it was as if we are looking for excuses for not doing the most obvious things.Mr. Shourie added that the flip side of this was that we do not even look at our successes. He gave the example of Indian Railways earning 154 billion rupees in 2014 through online ticket booking being completely ignored while Flipkart at 28 billion rupees is considered a success.with the problems automatically solutions comeMr. Shourie illustrated this with an example that when the law doesn’t allow hiring of people the solution comes in the form of contract labour. He added that the moment something starts moving government stops it and people again come up with some other unique solution.He further elaborated that our schools and colleges churn out unemployable graduates and so companies like Infosys and Tata come up with their own training programmes. For skill development companies come up with vocational courses. Mr. Shourie then went on to quote Professor Hayek and said that,He went on to add that when by our lack of knowledge we insist on government’s intervention then there are unintended consequences which are not intended by us or government.
He gave the example of how in the Agriculture Sector women get paid less than men. To balance this out the Government under NREGA pays equal wages to both genders. What is the result – women lose out on jobs more as compared to men.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby harbans » 20 Mar 2015 04:31

If we want India to be Pluralist and Respectful to other beliefs why are we not opposing Doctrines or ideals that oppose Pluralism and Respect and instead propagate hatred for other beliefs?

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Manny » 21 Mar 2015 02:11

A REBUTTAL: AS A CHRISTIAN, SUDDENLY I AM A STRANGER IN MY OWN COUNTRY, WRITES JULIO RIBEIRO

http://www.desicontrarian.com/?p=261

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Vipul » 21 Mar 2015 03:54

Hindus don’t always have equality with minorities.

An article written by former police officer Julio Ribeiro, initially headlined I am on a hit list, has ignited a debate concerning India’s Christians and their security under the Narendra Modi government. The 86-year-old Ribeiro—who admitted later he “slightly exaggerated” to attract attention—makes a series of scathing allegations against the Modi government, writing, “I feel threatened, not wanted, reduced to a stranger in my own country.”

He points to reports of church vandalism, asserting India’s Christians are threatened because of such incidents. It speaks to the discourse prevalent in India that every incident of vandalism or crime where a minority community is involved is viewed through the lens of communalism and secularism.

Investigations into these incidents have found that they were petty crimes and localized incidents, not necessarily motivated by religious hatred, but those who stoutly believe that minorities are under siege allege the investigations are compromised or influenced. No facts can convince them that there may be no grand design; the assertion of motivated attacks itself serves as proof that there is a conspiracy against minorities, and that assertion isn’t allowed to be undermined.

Ribeiro makes one tenuous claim after another. First, he asserts the Christian community has made significant contributions to India by building educational institutions and hospitals. Second, he proclaims that Mother Teresa was an “acknowledged saint, acknowledged by all communities and peoples”.

It is true that many of India’s leading schools and colleges are run by Christian organizations, and have done yeoman’s service for the country across generations. But this has not been entirely without an agenda. The missionary organizations running these institutions received substantial subsidies from the Indian public; in the British era and even after independence, missionary-run institutions received prime land in city centres at subsidized rates. More importantly, they were allowed autonomy and freedom in how they should run their institutions.

Even today, top ranked institutions like St Stephen’s College, Christian Medical College in Vellore, St Xavier’s College and countless missionary schools across India clearly declare themselves to be minority institutions and admit Christian students through explicit quotas; all of this is done at a subsidy, implicit and explicit, from Indian taxpayers, who are largely Hindus. For example, Christian Medical College clearly states in its admissions prospectus that its aim is to “train individuals for service in needy areas, especially in Christian mission hospitals”, and “a large number of Christian churches and missions make use of training” it offers in medical education. It has a special “sponsored category” constituting up to 50% seats, reserved for Christian applicants. For the nursing programme, 85% seats are reserved for Christians. The college says that “staff and student retreats led by eminent Christian thinkers are an important feature of the spiritual nature” of the college community. St Stephen’s has a 50% Christian quota and lower entry cutoffs for Christian applicants. Its principal, Valson Thampu, made news recently when a staff member alleged he was being coerced by Thampu to convert to Christianity.

The principal of St Xavier’s College in Mumbai went so far as to issue a political statement to the 3,000 students of his college criticizing the Gujarat government’s economic record and praising the Congress-led United Progressive Alliance government during the 2014 general election campaign. Why must a college principal make political proclamations to his student body? When premier schools and educational institutions funded by public money have large religious quotas - and protectionism through government regulation certainly helped these institutions achieve their premier position - it’s a clear incentive for Hindus to convert, for becoming Christian increases one’s chances of getting admission to some of India’s top schools and colleges.

The obvious implication is also that India has a system of government-funded Christian evangelism; is that secular? It’s acceptable that these institutions retain Christian quotas. The problem is the alternatives for Hindus are limited by state diktat because of stifling regulations in the education sector that have created artificial shortages. By not liberalizing the education sector, Prime Minister Narendra Modi would be supporting a quasi-monopoly enjoyed by Christian evangelical organizations. Liberalizing the sector would level the playing field and create a more equal India. By the same token, if non-Hindus enjoy the religious freedom to convert Hindus, Hindus too should have the freedom to propagate their faith.

But these are facts that are well-known to even left-liberal intellectuals. Writing in June 2007, when St Stephen’s College talked of raising its Christian quota to 50%, eminent historian Ramachandra Guha had said, “According to the Union ministry of education, fully 95% of the expenses of the college are met by the University Grants Commission. Why should a college that draws so heavily on the public exchequer be allowed to choose 40% of its students from 2% of the country’s population?”

Today, because there is a government in New Delhi headed by a man and a party they despise, the intellectuals maintain a calculated silence and merrily bandy Ribeiro’s victimhood-filled article as evidence of a state conspiracy against minorities. Mother Teresa is seen as a saint by some devout Christians. But to assert that she was universally seen as a saint is not just false, but unacceptable to any liberal and secular individual.

Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh chief Mohan Bhagwat’s comment that Mother Teresa had an evangelical agenda is simply a statement of fact; it is something which she herself proudly admitted. A staunch Roman catholic, Mother Teresa was opposed to birth control and abortions, calling it “the greatest destroyer of peace” in her 1979 Nobel Prize acceptance lecture - the so-called liberal movie stars who jumped to Teresa’s defence might be blissfully ignorant of her beliefs.

Contrast Teresa’s regressive views on this issue with that of Modi, who said last year in an interview to a television channel, “Women should have every right to take all the decisions of their lives. How much they want to study, where they want to study, when to marry, whether to marry, what work to do, where to work, when to have children, how many children to have, whether to have children - all these decisions should be in the hands of the woman alone.” Yet, Teresa is a secular-liberal icon and Modi is a fundamentalist.

A committed harvester of souls for her God, Teresa received criticism for baptizing the impoverished on their death beds. It is for such unethical and fundamentalist acts that British writer Christopher Hitchens called her the “ghoul of Calcutta”. “If my DNA is tested, it will not differ markedly from Bhagwat’s”, writes an impassioned Ribeiro. But the reality today is the Indian state treats a Ribeiro or a John differently from a Bhagwat or a Gupta.

Christian educational institutions are regulated less strenuously than Hindu ones. Christian places of worship are not controlled by government, but Hindu temples are. In flesh and blood, Christians, atheists, Muslims, Parsis, Buddhists and Hindus may all be the same - but in the eyes of the Indian state, they are not. Correcting this heinous perversity is the Modi government’s mandate - it is telling that not one self-described solider of secularism ever asks that Hindus be granted this equality.

During the 2014 general election campaign, Modi faced opprobrium from the intelligentsia for declining to wear the Muslim skull cap. Not wearing the cap amounted to an insult to Muslims and a violation of secularism, we were told. But Modi took the firm and principled position that as a practising Hindu, he could not and would not wear a religious symbol only to garner votes. It’s a question that begs to be answered—will Hindus have to circumsize or baptize themselves to prove they are secular and tolerant? It should be revolting to every secular Indian that Hindus and non-Hindus are treated differently by the Indian state.

Under the Nehruvian template, special treatment of minorities in several areas has become the norm in our country. It is equally true that freedom has been denied in areas such as personal laws to minorities. Muslims, for instance, are forced to abide by a religious personal law code. Nehruvian India is a discriminatory, bigoted India that arbitrarily affords more freedom to one religious group and less to the other. This is immoral and grossly unfair, for the Indian state should not be favouring or disfavouring individual citizens based on their religion. Given his mandate and his clearly articulated stand on religious freedom during and since the election campaign, Modi has a historic opportunity—an India where all citizens are equal in the eyes of the state is within reach.
Last edited by Vipul on 21 Mar 2015 03:56, edited 1 time in total.

sanjaykumar
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby sanjaykumar » 21 Mar 2015 08:20

Well well, rationalism is beginning toclaim a public space in India.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby A_Gupta » 21 Mar 2015 16:22

Not sure where to put such "soft power" news-items.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/ludhiana/ ... 28945.aspx
about international students in Punjab.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby A_Gupta » 21 Mar 2015 16:31

Another soft-power issue:
Why millions of foreign Muslim tourists are hesitant about visiting India’s marvellous mosques
India ranks 40 on the list of 100 preferred holiday destinations for Muslim tourists in the world.
http://scroll.in/article/715165/Why-mil ... us-mosques

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby svenkat » 21 Mar 2015 16:40

THE SLOW COOKING OF THE HINDUS IN INDIA

Over a period of time, the Admissions to MCC (Madras Christian College) and (Other similar Institutions) have slowly been squeezing out the Hindus to such a point, this cannot stand anymore. I am told MCC is almost 60-80% Christians only… I got nothing against Christians 3% of the population. But when a public funded institution sitting on public land (in the alleged “secular” India goes from 30% in the 80s to 60-80% today, It’s nothing short of overt discrimination and institutional segregation. Not sure what these Sonia govt and the leftists have been thinking..This could lead to some happy place? if its 80%, might as well make it 100% using the same rationale. The Christian Medical College, Vellore is 90% Christians.


The Land that sits on is Public land, the teachers salary are paid by the UGC Commission..(tax payer)..so basically Hindus are paying the hangman to buy the rope to hang them so to speak. Imagine a similar situation in the US, where tax payer school for exclusively for Muslims (because they are a minority) and they are free to discriminate against Christians. Would it work here? Would this bizarre practice work in any other country? Why should this be acceptable in India?


Remember, they just have Christian names…they are not funded by the Church

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Hari Seldon » 21 Mar 2015 20:20

4,000 Year Old Vishnu Statue Discovered in Vietnam

The fact is there are no other ‘officially’ recognized Vedic artifacts that have been dated back to such an early date. This would make Vietnam home to the world’s most ancient Vedic artifact. While there are indeed many other ancient artifacts that represent the same Deity, they are not presented in the ‘Indic’ tradition and cannot be directly recognized as the Vishnu of the Indic Vaishnava tradition.

The 4000-3500 year old Vietnamese Vishnu sculpture is part of an exhibit featuring some of Vietnam’s most ancient artifacts. It was discovered in the region of Southern Vietnam's Mekong Delta. The Mekong (Ma Ganga) River is named after the Ganges River of India. The entire region was once the home to several ancient and prosperous Vedic Kingdoms and many intriguing and unique Vedic artifacts have been discovered.


http://www.speakingtree.in/spiritual-bl ... ck=cntshtw

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby RamaY » 21 Mar 2015 21:29

A_Gupta wrote:Another soft-power issue:
Why millions of foreign Muslim tourists are hesitant about visiting India’s marvellous mosques
India ranks 40 on the list of 100 preferred holiday destinations for Muslim tourists in the world.
http://scroll.in/article/715165/Why-mil ... us-mosques


Most likely because majority of Indian Mosques are unislamic as they are built after destroying Hidnu/Buddhist temples. The real Muslims also know that these mosques aren't permanent structures and may go when Indian Muslims return to their native faiths.

Yes, TajMahal isn't a mosque in any shape or form because it is a burial place of a woman, Mumtaj Begum.

Islam in India isn't same as Islam in Arabian nations, Sunni or Shia (Iraq).

P.S: There is a soft power thread for further discussion.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby fanne » 21 Mar 2015 21:52

Hari Seldon, how come that be? Aryan were attacking India 1500 BC (3500 years ago), how come there is a 4000 years old Shri Vishnu Statue? Did it time travel (using Aryan horses)?

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Raj » 21 Mar 2015 22:22

Hari Seldon wrote:4,000 Year Old Vishnu Statue Discovered in Vietnam

The fact is there are no other ‘officially’ recognized Vedic artifacts that have been dated back to such an early date. This would make Vietnam home to the world’s most ancient Vedic artifact. While there are indeed many other ancient artifacts that represent the same Deity, they are not presented in the ‘Indic’ tradition and cannot be directly recognized as the Vishnu of the Indic Vaishnava tradition.

The 4000-3500 year old Vietnamese Vishnu sculpture is part of an exhibit featuring some of Vietnam’s most ancient artifacts. It was discovered in the region of Southern Vietnam's Mekong Delta. The Mekong (Ma Ganga) River is named after the Ganges River of India. The entire region was once the home to several ancient and prosperous Vedic Kingdoms and many intriguing and unique Vedic artifacts have been discovered.


http://www.speakingtree.in/spiritual-bl ... ck=cntshtw


This seems to be a made up story. Were there any newspapers which reported this?

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 22 Mar 2015 06:57

Indian scientists make breakthrough in agricultural productivity
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/education/ ... 24952.html

Five Indian scientists have been able to demonstrate an increase of whopping 40 per cent to 100 per cent in agricultural production using nano-technology and iron-pyrite - one of the cheapest and abundant minerals available on earth.The 13th New AG International Conference - world's largest event for agricultural technology - was held this week in New Delhi this year and attended by hundreds of delegates from more than 60 countries. However India stole the show with this breakthrough innovation that enhances productivity without fertilizer or genetic engineering.The team of Mainak Das, Deepu Philip, Sushil Kr Singh, Kalpana Bhargava and Niroj K Sethy found a new way to treat seeds with nano-particles of iron-pyrites before sowing that enhances plant growth significantly. "I always wanted to do something to eradicate hunger. That is what motivated me to pursue this research", says Mainak Das who is a faculty in Biological Sciences at IIT Kanpur. He and his colleague Deepu Philip from Industrial Engineering, IITK left their lucrative careers in USA to come back to India and give back. Kalpana and Sushil also have the same story. They also quit plush foreign jobs to join Defense Research & Development Organization (DRDO). The five pooled their own savings and assets for this research. While speaking to India Today, Sushil said, "We have been able to show wonderful results with spinach, carrot, fenugreek, sesame and beetroot so far. And this happens without disturbing the soil ecosystem unlike fertilizers as we are treating seeds and not soil. This is first time such results have been achieved to best of our knowledge.""We have observed significant increase in plant dimensions as well as healthy mineral content. This is called bio-stimulation. It is like making Captain America from frail Steve Rogers. In fact this is Captain India!", Niroj shared with excitement.Kalpana added, "The dosage requirement is minimal because of nano dimensions. There are no adverse impacts on either plant or soil. There is no tinkering with genome.""We are currently working towards making this technology production-ready and expanding to other food-items. We went so far ahead on our own. But would need support to take it to next level and achieve the dream of hunger-free India and hunger-free world in next two decades.", said Deepu. Mainak who leads the team summarized the passion of team, "Why just Make in India? We want Made by India, Make for India, Make for World."

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Rahul M » 22 Mar 2015 11:59

this is a very interesting blog by someone who claims long term connections to IG and RG regimes and even post that. his father was apparently a senior diplomat. makes some very intriguing claims. read for yourself.

http://independentindian.com/

have no idea about veracity though.

edit: the articles are also published in new Indian express, so that lends some credence I guess.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Paul » 22 Mar 2015 13:23

Subroto Roy has posted here before. He strongly objected when I quoted from his website in the days even though the link was provided by me. This in the days when I was very active on the forum.

Ramana had to play intermediary role.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Manny » 22 Mar 2015 23:05




Tuvaluan
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Tuvaluan » 22 Mar 2015 23:36

http://independentindian.com/

Don't see anything unique here -- same old stupid twaddle that has been peddled by the Delhi Bureaucracy that Pakistan can somehow make peace with India, if only India and Pakistan engaged each other bilaterally (we can all see how wonderfully that is working out as it plays out in front of us, as seen in the 26/11 thread). So in that sense, it makes sense that this guy has "connections" in the Indian establishment -- the stupidity drips from these thought processes.

The India MEA and FP establishment wants to ignore 60 years of precedents created by the pakis and pretend that cooperation with pakis is just a step away and around the corner -- sometimes it hard to tell who is more delusional: the pakis or the "diplomatic" peace-mongers who run paki foreign policy in New Delhi.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 23 Mar 2015 01:19

Image

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 23 Mar 2015 02:16

Image
Teenager Bhagat Singh

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Manny » 23 Mar 2015 06:25


Manny
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Manny » 25 Mar 2015 01:06



https://www.saddahaq.com/politics/india ... eye-opener

Something must be done..this cannot go on. If this is not hate speech I don't know what is.

http://www.desicontrarian.com/?p=380

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 25 Mar 2015 03:00

Ankar wrote:Image

Manglore Church attack: The man was working with the church till a month ago and he was unhappy with the pay. He was drunk that night and was the one who threw stones at the prayer centre.

Panvel church attack :Navi Mumbai church attack act of vendetta against raid on illegal club

Jasola Church attack :A police source said a call was made by the church administration after it found “an unusually large gathering of local boys” outside its vicinity and panicked fearing the worst. “We rushed a team to the spot as soon as the call was logged and realised that it was a misunderstanding on part of the mass attendees. No damage could be ascertained to have been caused to the church as claimed by the caller,” said a police source.[/url

Rohini Church attack : [url=http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/crib-on-church-premises-found-gutted-in-delhi/article6753393.ece]“A decorative light was placed around the crib and it is possible that the it caught fire due to a short-circuit bringing down the entire structure,” said a senior police officer.The officer added that if it were a deliberate attempt, other things near the crib, like a statue of Christ placed close to the crib, could also have been damaged.


Vikaspuri Church attack: "They'd had drinks that night and it was Harpreet who had challenged Ravinder to do the act while Narender Singh was also present on the spot," said Deputy Commissioner of Police (West) Pushpendra Kumar. "They had committed the act just to fulfill the bet. Ravinder, who is seen punching the glass pane and pulling down a statue inside it, had even bowed his head and folded hands before committing the act.

Nun rape case : Nun Rape Case: Police detain two Bangladeshis on suspicion

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Hari Seldon » 25 Mar 2015 13:05

Rajendra Chola commemorated. Finally. The wonders of having an Indic govt.

Image

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 26 Mar 2015 05:51

Sadhguru & Pandit Jasraj - Ektara

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Gus » 26 Mar 2015 06:14

that's a great stamp.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 29 Mar 2015 09:06

Debate on 'Hinduism & Indian Grand Narrative', Delhi Univ Psychology Dep

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Manny » 30 Mar 2015 01:40

What's the Beef about Beef!

http://www.desicontrarian.com/?p=485



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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby RamaY » 30 Mar 2015 05:04


RamaY
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby RamaY » 30 Mar 2015 06:49

Jhujar wrote:Debate on 'Hinduism & Indian Grand Narrative', Delhi Univ Psychology Dep



What is interesting in this debate is that every speaker who used the word "we" to describe India, they were implying "Hindus" and Hindu Culture/Heritage etc.,

"We" can't escape the truth :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Manny » 31 Mar 2015 00:02

Fantastic Article.

CHRISTIANS ARE NOT UNDER ATTACK IN INDIA

March 30, 2015 · by mariawirthblog ·

https://mariawirthblog.wordpress.com/20 ... mment-3073

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 01 Apr 2015 21:27

https://whatalotofbirds.wordpress.com/2 ... habharata/
MAGHA’S SHISHUPALA VADHA: THE MOST COMPLEX POEM EVER CREATED?The Shishupala Vadha by Magha might just be the most complex and beautifully-wrought poem ever written. So why hasn’t anyone heard of it?
ah! Infinite is the variety of language, even though it is made up of only a few letters, just as music, though it is made up of only seven notes.”
– Magha’s Shishupala Vadha, II. 72
The Shishupala Vadha, an epic poem written in Sanskrit in either the seventh or eighth century, is undoubtedly one of the most complex and beautiful poetic works ever created. This masterpiece of Sanskrit poetry follows the story of Krishna as he marches to Indraprastha, on his way to attend the great sacrifice held by his friend Yudhisthira, who is being crowned the King of the World.This story from Krishna’s life, taken from an episode of the epic Mahabharata, begins with a brilliant light descending from the clouds, and all the people of the world pointing and marvelling.“The townspeople watched, amazed, all saying ‘the path of the sun is horizontal. Its fire burns from on high, as we all know. But this light spreads itself in all directions, and falls to earth. What is it?’”This light is the great sage Narada, who descends from heaven in order to warn Krishna that the terrible demon king Ravana, the grand evil of the Ramayana, has been reborn as a man. His name is King Shishupala, and his evil deeds are already known throughout the world.The character always follows the man,” Narada tells Krishna. “Like an actor taking on another role, this scheming one has returned in another birth, and, though he is the same, is thought by everyone to be a different man, for his personality has been born under the name of Shishupala.”This is high drama at its finest. From the inciting incident of Narada’s appearance, the story blossoms forth in all its florid abundance. It is unstoppable, ebullient, bubbling forth in all directions.Now Krishna must make a choice: does he attend the great sacrifice to which he has been invited, or does he march his army to defeat the evil-doer? He consults his older brother Balarama, who counsels him to march to war.“The man who does nothing when a fierce enemy practises hostility against him, he is lying down to sleep in the grass once it has caught fire,” says the choleric mace-wielder.
Then, Krishna consults the wise man Uddhava, who advises greater caution and wisdom. A prince, he says, must at first hide his agitation when confronted by enemies.“But when the right time comes, he shows his rage and he is as invincible as a disease. Although he has been treated poorly by others, he must not let them know his aggravation at first, but when the crisis occurs he must violently rage, and there must be no cure for his wrath.”These passages have the feel of “mirrors for princes” or specula principum such as Niccolò Machiavelli’s The Prince that became popular among European nobility during the Medieval and Early Renaissance eras. They form a manifesto of what it is to be an effective ruler, a shrewd diplomat, and a cunning tactician in battle.Finally, after much deliberation, Krishna decides that he will take his army to the sacrifice. After all, Shishupala will surely be there, and his famous recklessness will doubtless give Krishna the opportunity to strike.From this remarkable set-up, the march of the great army takes more than ten long chapters. Magha has an amazing ability to paint all the chaos of an army on the move into his poetry, zooming out to pan across all the noise and clamour of the men and animals, the elephants and chariots, the cavalry and supply wagons, all preparing to leave the city, and then zooming back in to pick out a single happening: the army’s “banners lowered as they threatened to crack the high arches of the city’s gateways”, or “a cat, ducking and remaining still among a group of carved birds in order to stalk among the parapets of the houses”.
Arjuna and Krishna confront Karna during the battle of Kurukshetra
This remarkable attention to detail seems to belong to a much more modern work, as does the inner conflict Krishna feels as he begins his march. There’s also a beautiful self-reflection and coyness that could almost be post-modern. For instance, when Krishna’s army camps beneath the holy mountain Raivataka, and all the soldiers marvel at its supernatural beauty, Magha claims “The great height and beauty of the mountain need none of the false, exaggerated embellishment of a poet” – before progressing, for the best part of 100 verses, to extol its great beauty and height in the most extravagant terms.
The mountain sprouted trees, in whose branches magnificent peacocks lounged, around the trunks of which large snakes were twined, and from which the tips of many vines swung like pendulums.”

There’s also a Chaucer-like cheekiness to some of the detailed episodes that dot the army’s chaotic march:“Shying away from an elephant cow, a donkey reared up violently as all the people laughed, and the harem :?: lady riding upon him fell from the loosened saddle, while the robe on her hips slipped down.”However, it’s not the beauty of the poetry or the skill of the storytelling that has impressed scholars throughout the ages, but the metrical skill involved in its creation. Magha was a manipulator of the Sanskrit language who knew no equal. This can perhaps best be demonstrated by the following verse, in the 19th chapter of the poem:
सकारनानारकास-
कायसाददसायका
रसाहवा वाहसार-
नादवाददवादना
sakāranānārakāsa-
kāyasādadasāyakā
rasāhavā vāhasāra-
nādavādadavādanā.

Now, if you reverse the lines as though placing a mirror beneath them, this forms a palindrome in four directions: the most complex poetic device ever created.
sa kā ra nā nā ra kā sa
kā ya sā da da sā ya kā
ra sā ha vā vā ha sā ra
nā da vā da da vā da nā
(and the lines reversed)
nā da vā da da vā da nā
ra sā ha vā vā ha sā ra
kā ya sā da da sā ya kā
sa kā ra nā nā ra kā sa
“[That army], which relished battle (rasāhavā) contained allies who brought low the bodes and gaits of their various striving enemies (sakāranānārakāsakāyasādadasāyakā), and in it the cries of the best of mounts contended with musical instruments (vāhasāranādavādadavādanā).” (Trans. George L. Hart)
The same chapter ends with a verse written in the tortuously difficult wheel design, or chakrabandha. If you rearrange the syllables in the form of a wheel, there is a message hidden among the spokes: “This is Śiśupālavadha, a poem by Māgha”
Magha_chakrabandha_shishupala_vadha_sanskrit_poetry
There are also stanzas written using only one consonant:
दाददो दुद्ददुद्दादी दाददो दूददीददोः ।
दुद्दादं दददे दुद्दे दादाददददोऽददः ॥ dādado duddaduddādī dādado dūdadīdadoḥ
duddādaṃ dadade dudde dādādadadado’dadaḥ
“Sri Krishna, the giver of every boon, the scourge of the evil-minded, the purifier, the one whose arms can annihilate the wicked who cause suffering to others, shot his pain-causing arrow at the enemy.”
(Trans. Vijay)
“I am enraged by not having the chance to pay Krishna what he deserves,” Shishupala says, the whole chapter embodying his duplicitous, two-sided nature.Today, the Shishupala Vadha is still unobtainable in English. There is a fantastic version in German, by Eugen Hultzsch, on which my translations are based, and another in French by Hippolyte Fauche. Unfortunately, until some Sanskrit scholar of greater knowledge and patience than I comes along to translate it, the secrets and wonders of one of the world’s greatest poetic works will forever be obscure to us.

ramana
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 02 Apr 2015 02:07

Jhujar wrote:http://www.indiatomorrow.co/nation/3021-christians-are-not-under-attack-in-india-hindus-are
There is probably no other country where members of other religions were as safe as in India. Hindus always gave shelter to those who were persecuted in their homelands. Jews gratefully acknowledged that India is the one country where they were never persecuted. Syrian Christians under their leader Thomas of Cana (Thomas the Apostle did not come to India) were given refuge in the 4th century. Parsis came in the 10th century to escape the Muslim invaders in Persia. And in 1959, some 100,000 Tibetan Buddhist refugees found shelter in India — only 12 years after the British had left the country, divided and poverty-stricken.In contrast, the rich USA with an area three times the size and only a quarter of India’s population allowed only in 1991 one thousand Tibetan families to enter.Indians never hesitated to accept those who were in trouble and who wanted to preserve their faith because they did not distinguish between human beings on religious lines. Their attitude was that all belong to one big human family and all have the same divine essence in them. For them “religion” was not an identity but a natural, ideal way of life.So what happened that nowadays there is a lot of talk that Christians are under attack in India? Have Hindus suddenly become intolerant?No. Hindus have not changed. All the so called attacks on churches which were hyped up recently on many TV channels turned out to have been minor crimes unconnected with “Hindu extremists”. In other countries they would hardly find space in the local paper. Why were they flogged for days on TV channels? Why were Christian spokesmen given plenty of airtime to falsely blame the “Hindu right” and claim that Christians are under attack? There seems to be an agenda by the Churches and it would need to be investigated why so many TV channels obliged. A smashed glass pane outside one church, a fire due to short circuit in another church, a theft of 8000 Rupees in a convent school, stones thrown by a mixed group of Hindus and Muslim surely don’t warrant hours of hyped coverage.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby nawabs » 07 Apr 2015 07:49

PM slams developed nations for questioning India's green norms

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 405_1.html
Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Monday hit out at developed countries for questioning India’s credentials in curbing environmental pollution and said those who “lecture” the country “refuse” to provide nuclear fuel for clean energy.

Asserting that India was committed to promoting clean energy, including nuclear, he said India has “not been” sufficiently projected on the global arena and occasionally perceived to be a barrier in the global climate change fight.

The prime minister also urged the world to “ease restrictions” for India on import of nuclear fuel so that India could also produce clean nuclear energy in a big way.

In an apparent reference to western countries which are not providing nuclear fuel to energy-starved India, Modi noted the country has taken several initiatives in clean energy sector, including solar and wind.

“See the irony. The world gives lectures on climate, but if we tell them we want to move forward in nuclear energy as it is a good path for environment protection and when we ask them to provide necessary fuel for nuclear energy, they refuse,” he said.

Modi, addressing a conference of state environment ministers and officials, launched the National Air Quality Index in 10 cities to monitor pollution levels.

This comes in the backdrop of criticism by western countries on the very “unhealthy” air quality in India’s metros, including the national capital which has been termed as one of the most polluted cities prompting many embassies and other international establishments to install air purifiers.

The prime minister observed that “wrong” impressions have been projected about India that it was neither concerned about climate nor environment.

“Everybody has come to believe that the world is concerned about climate change but India is posing hurdles... We have grown up in a culture where nature is worshipped like god and protecting nature is linked to humanity.

“But due to some reasons, maybe we have been ruled by others for centuries, we are inhibited in expressing our view. Till the time we gain confidence in ourselves, we will not be able deal with the problem,” he said.

Modi said protecting the environment is “in our tradition” and rather than following others, India should lead the world in finding solutions to the issue of global warming.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Tuvaluan » 07 Apr 2015 07:55

^^^Is this true? I recall reading that India had bought several Uranium mines in CAR and in other countries over the past decade and was able to acquire nuclear fuel in the open market.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby deejay » 07 Apr 2015 09:35

Tuvaluan wrote:^^^Is this true? I recall reading that India had bought several Uranium mines in CAR and in other countries over the past decade and was able to acquire nuclear fuel in the open market.


I do not know about Indian Government but I know of an Indian company which owns Uranium Mines in African trouble spots - Taurian Group which also has Iron & Steel PLant (Taurian Iron & Steel Company), TISCO. Very unscruplous (my opinion) characters. Big time players in mining across India, very close to UPA regime, have large offices in Bandra Kurla Complex and Worli.

They have branched out in to many things now.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Tuvaluan » 07 Apr 2015 09:43

I guess the PM is referring to being a member of the NSG. Some reference to it in this article:

http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/letterfromwashington/pakistan-does-a-north-korea-openly-brandishes-its-nuclear-weapons/

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 10 Apr 2015 02:50

India Has Achieved 'Universal Primary Education': UNESCO
NEW DELHI: Making significant progress, India has reduced its "out of school" children by over 90 per cent and has achieved "universal primary education", according to a UNESCO global education report released today."In fact, India is predicted to be the only country in South and West Asia to have an equal ratio of girls to boys in both primary and secondary education," the report, released by HRD Minister Smriti Irani, said.The Education for All 2000-2015 report said that while globally 47 per cent of the countries achieved universal pre-primary enrolment, eight per cent of the countries including India were close to achieving so.The report, though, called upon the international community to find, in partnership with countries, the means to bridge the $22 billion annual financial gap for quality pre-primary and basic education for all by 2030.Addressing the meet, Ms Irani said the initiatives to improve the enrolment level and "a new paradigm of education that fosters knowledge, analytical skills, vertical reasoning and the ability to imagine beyond the given is being adopted".This is being carried out recognising the vision of Prime Minister Narendra Modi of making education a pillar in nation's character building, she said, adding enhanced focus was being laid on science and mathematics which are central to school education.The UNESCO report also noted the achievement of gender parity in India but said the country is yet to achieve significant progress in adult literacy. It said 32 per cent of the countries including India are still "very far" from achieving it.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Tuvaluan » 10 Apr 2015 06:12

That UNESCO report flies in the face of facts that very few of the people in school actually graduate -- these numbers only measure enrollment rate, not graduation rate, which is pathetically low. These guys are equating enroilment rate with "achieving primary education". This scam has been going on since the UPA govt., and looks like nothing has changed.


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