Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

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Prem
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 01 Oct 2015 06:39

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/sukkot-a ... ped_Report
Sukkot and Modi’s Guru: On the passing of Swami Dayananda

On this Sukkot eve, I would like to share the story of one man who came to Jerusalem, representing nearly a billion faithful. This man is Swami Dayananda Saraswati, one of India’s greatest spiritual teachers. Dayananda passed away just after Yom Kippur. The media referred to him by appeal to his most celebrated student, India’s prime minister, Narendra Modi. The closest Jewish parallel I can think of would be to refer to the Lubavitcher Rebbe as the Rebbe of President Zalman Shazar. But Dayananda did not need Modi to be known in India, and globally.Swami Dayananda is also the driving force behind the most important Jewish-Hindu encounter ever. Through the council of Hindu leaders, he held two high profile summits with the Chief Rabbinate of Israel, the American Jewish Committee and other Jewish leaders and scholars. These summits are seen by many as a breakthrough in Hindu-Jewish relations, in a sense establishing “spiritual-diplomatic” relations between them. What drove Dayanandaji to invite the Chief Rabbi of Israel to Delhi and to come himself to Jerusalem, with a significant delegation of Hindu religious leaders? Vision, concern and pain.
Let me begin with the pain. I would like to share two different conversations I had with Dayananda, both of which are relevant to the Jewish-Hindu summits he initiated. The first took place in Montreal, in advance of the first summit of Hindu-Jewish leaders. Dayananda was in Montreal for a large conference, where he shared his pain about how Christians are converting Hindus. Conversion is a nation-wide problem in India, and a very much unresolved one, as it continues to feed violence on the ground. Dayananda carried the pain and concern for Hindu identity that he felt is being undermined by missionaries using inappropriate missionary tactics. His unitive vision and his recognition of the validity of all faiths did not detract from the problem and the enormous pain with which I was confronted.As a Jew I was sympathetic. And as a savvy international leader, Dayananda knew he needed allies, and he recognized Jews share his sentiment. He therefore sought to cultivate relations with Jewish leadership in combating Christian missionaries. The declaration issued during the first summit includes this as one of its messages: “Neither [Hindus nor Jews] seek to proselytize, nor undermine or replace in any way the religious identities of other faith communities. They expect other communities to respect their religious identities and commitments, and condemn all activities that go against the sanctity of this mutual respect.”Dayananda carried a second pain, that of being misunderstood. I recall another conversation with him, this one in his Ashram in his Rishikesh, where he passed away a couple of days ago. Dayananda was beside himself at the accusation that he was an idol worshipper. “Me, an idol worshipper?” He addressed to me his frustration at Jewish authorities who could not see beyond the externals of Hindu worship to the spiritual reality that he of all people, as India’s foremost teacher of Vedanta, was well aware of, and that informed his spiritual horizons. Dayananda had a deep need to clear up what he considered a fundamental misperception of Hinduism, on the part of Jews. This was the second most important goal of the summits. Reading the transcripts of the summits one realizes that assembled rabbis heard for the first time that Hinduism was not primitive idolatry and that Hindus worship the one Supreme Being, the same one worshipped by Jews. This recognition stood at the top of the declarations and was considered by Dayananda as their greatest achievement.

The Jerusalem meet concluded with a landmark declaration that Hindus worship ‘one supreme being’ and are not really idolatrous.The implications of this are profound in content and far-reaching in effect. Judaism was born of the complete repudiation of idol-worship and the rabbinic literature abounds with denunciation of idolatry in an entire tractate of the Talmud devoted to this.The importance of this issue in the Jewish and other Abrahamic traditions cannot be overstated. Since its first encounter with these religions, due to their incomplete understanding of its Sastras, Hinduism has been perceived by them as idolatrous and promoting many gods, says Swami Dayananda Saraswathi.The Hindus have, for centuries, experienced the extremely violent consequences of this wrong perception.The historic declaration made at the Hindu-Jewish Summit at Jerusalem on 18 February, 2008 sets at rest the wrong notion that Hinduism is idolatrous.The declaration reads: ‘It is recognized that one supreme being in its formless and manifest aspects has been worshipped by Hindus over the millennia. The Hindu relates to only the one supreme being when he / she prays to a particular manifestation. This does not mean that Hindus worship ‘gods’ and ‘idols’.The Jewish leaders, in so many words, owned their perception of the Hindu tradition as erroneous and came up with the declaration which the Hindu delegation could happily accept. This establishes that honest and bold dialogue can completely reverse wrong views and erroneous perceptions held over millennia.
If one thinks about it, this is a remarkable moment. It is remarkable because Jews and Hindus have made significant progress in their mutual understanding. In my soon to be released The Jewish Encounter with Hinduism (Palgrave-Macmillan, 2015), I query whether Dayananda was over-optimistic in his reading of the summits’ achievements and whether indeed the issue of idolatry is off the table once and for all. But that does not detract from the fact that for the first time ever a theological conversation took place between Jewish and Hindu leaders, and that its outcome was transformative. It is also a remarkable moment in terms of process, a fact underlined by Dayananda himself. Dayananda was able to channel his pain into constructive action. He did not simply complain about Hinduism being misunderstood. He took steps to make it better understood. And in this, he appealed to the procedure of dialogue as the way forward in clearing up misunderstandings. This is itself a remarkable achievement. Dayananda came to Jerusalem to increase understanding and the procedure he undertook was that of dialogue. When we think of the seventy nations this Sukkot, we are invited to consider not only what they will receive by coming, but also what we might receive by their presence. Our experience of Sukkot may be deepened when we realize that receiving guests in our Sukka is an invitation to dialogue

shiv
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 13 Oct 2015 13:54

Image

Vipul
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Vipul » 13 Oct 2015 17:29

No wonder he got the Highest Puki Civilian Award for services rendered. Ack Thoo on him.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby JE Menon » 13 Oct 2015 21:10

Excellent cartoon...

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 02 Nov 2015 03:18

chetak wrote:Those who question appointment of Yellapragada Sudershan Rao as chairman of ICHR



One year has been passed since the formation of Modi led BJP government at center. Secularist of every hue doubt the intention of Modi or its promised change. While everyone entitled to ask question about progress of the country. But if we read commentary, editorial or Op Ed we find common allegations against Modi government. We will discuss every allegation one by one but today we will deal with appointment of Yellapragada Sudershan Rao as ICHR chairman.
Everyone who question PM of the country also question Dr Rao as chairman of ICHR and they express their fear that Dr Rao will become instrumental in changing the History books of the country.
My question is simple if they fear that Dr Rao will change the History it means they know History as subject very objectively rather than Marxist objectivity. Now if seriously we are are ready for History debate in India we must study about our ICHR's The Eminent Entrepreneurs in first place than we can discuss whether Dr. Rao is not fit for ICHR or Mr. Modi have any agenda for Hindutva.
ICHR's The Eminent Entrepreneurs!
Arun Shourie
Answer by the Ministry for Human Resources Development to Unstarred Question number 3466 in the Rajya Sabha : "Professor Bipin Chandra was sanctioned a sum of Rs 75000 during 1987-88 for the assignment entitled 'A History of Indian National Congress'. A sum of Rs 57500 has been released to him till 23-6-1989. The remaining balance of Rs 17500 is yet to be released because a formal manuscript in this regard is yet to be received."
I, therefore, wrote to the Ministry : "Does this mean that some informal manuscript has been received ? Or that no manuscript has been received ? If the latter is the case, how is it that nine years having passed, the scholar having taken Rs 57500 for a project and not having submitted the manuscript, no action has been taken ?"
After some reminders, the Ministry eventually wrote to say : "... it has been confirmed by ICHR that no manuscript -- either formally or informally -- has been received so far." As regards the action taken, the Ministry said, information was being obtained from the ICHR.
I am now informed in writing that the Rs 75000 allotted to this "eminent historian" for this project -- "the Oral History Project" -- was but a part, a small part of the total take. Bipin Chandra was given in addition Rs 200,000 by the ICSSR and Rs 400,000 through the Jawaharlal Nehru University. Neither institution has received any manuscript.
Actually this matter became an issue when time came for this "eminent historian" to retire from the JNU. The University, naturally, could not do without his eminence. A proposal was, therefore, put up to engage him again after retirement. The then Rector of the University pointed out that, according to the University's rules, the retirement dues etc. could not be settled, and a contract to engage Bipin Chandra again could not be entered into till the accounts for the Rs 400,000 had been submitted, and that Bipin Chandra had studiously neglected to furnish the accounts. No accounts came. The then Vice-Chancellor papered over the matter.
As nothing but nothing has turned up in the ICHR in return for its grant, the second part of my query remained : what action has the ICHR taken in the matter? I am now told, "No action has been initiated on this as Dr. Bipin Chandra is stated to be still working on the project." That is the position nine years after his eminence collected the money!
From documents which have been furnished in response to my queries, it turns out that this is the pattern. The ICHR commenced a National Movement Project -- to which I shall come in a moment -- to document our freedom struggle from the mid-1850's. Bipin Chandra took Rs 12000 to produce the volume covering 1885-86. Result? Nothing has been heard of it since. He took another Rs 12000 for the volume covering 1932-34. Outcome? "Not submitted," says the ICHR. Being eminent, Bipin Chandra is naturally in the circle of friends among whom the "Towards Freedom Project" was parceled. To assist him to shoulder his onerous load in this regard, the ICHR has employed over the years one "regular" staff member plus eight staff members "on consolidated salary". Result ? "Volume not submitted."
But, to be fair, this pattern is not confined to this eminent historian alone. It has been the pattern for the entire institution manned and controlled by these "eminent historians."
Mr V N Gadgil, the Congress member, asked a written question in the Rajya Sabha about the projects which had been undertaken by the ICHR, and what had happened to them. In its reply ( to Unstarred Question number 3476 ) the Ministry of Human Resources Development stated, "According to the information furnished by the ICHR, three major projects -- namely, the 'Towards Freedom', 'Dictionary of Inscriptions,' and the 'Economic History of India' -- started between 1976 and 1992 have been continued during the last five years. These are in different stages of completion..."
The rat was there for everyone to see : Gadgil, after all, had not asked about "major projects," nor had he said anything about projects "started between 1976 and 1992." Therefore, after some inquiries with, as journalists say, "informed sources," I asked, "But what about the project for documenting the National Freedom Movement from 1857 to 1936? How many volumes were to be produced under it? To whom was each volume assigned? How much was paid to each scholar? How much has been spent on each volume? How many volumes have been produced under this project ?"
The Ministry replied, "... the Indian Council of Historical Research have stated that no project was commissioned by them to document National Movement between 1857 and 1937." What a foolish evasion ! All I had to do was to draw the attention of the Ministry to successive annual reports of the ICHR which had been presented to Parliament over two decades : report after report had listed this as one of the major projects which the ICHR had initiated! Please look at the account commencing from page 26 of the Annual Report for 1972-1973, I wrote; please look at the account commencing from page 16 of the Annual Report for 1973-1974, I wrote...
The result ? I am now informed that such a project had indeed been undertaken. Nineteen volumes were to have been produced. The volumes were assigned to different scholars -- our eminencies as usual led the rest ! Each scholar collected Rs. 12000 per volume he had been assigned. The result ? Here, in the words of the ICHR, is a list of the period to be covered by the volume, the scholar to whom it was assigned, the money the scholar collected, the result :
1. Before 1857 : K. Rajayan : Rs 12000; Submitted but not traceable.
As you read the amounts, do remember that they were paid out in the mid-1970s, when they amounted to much, much more than they do in these days of scams..
And what about the project to document the Praja Mandal Movement, the freedom movement in the princely states ?, I inquired. The requisite details are being collected by the ICHR, the Ministry wrote.
After a reminder, the Ministry wrote : "The ICHR had taken [sic.] such a project. No further information is readily available." "Surely, you would not like to leave the matter at that," I had to write. "Was a large sum of public money not spent on the Project ? Who had been assigned the Project ? What has resulted from the large expenditure of public money ?" The ICHR has furnished the details now. These conform to the norm, so to say : the Project was assigned to one of the key-point men of the "eminent historians" in the Council, R. C. Shukla. Staff was assigned. Materials are reported to have been collected between 1976 and 1982. A sum of Rs 435,000 was spent. The net outcome ? "No publication has come out on PMM [the Praja Mandal Movements], to the best knowledge of the Council," says the Council.
What about the project which was undertaken to document "Peasants Movements" ?, I inquired. Fourteen volumes were to be produced, the ICHR says. Six of these were assigned among three scholars at Rs 12000 per volume. One of these has been published. Two are listed as "Not Submitted." And three as "Submitted but not traceable."
What about the "Economic Data and Statistics Project," which was listed with such fan-fare in the Annual Reports till some years ago ?, I asked. Six volumes were to be produced under it, the ICHR says. The authors, the subjects they were to cover in the volume assigned to them, the money which was paid to them, and the outcome, in the words of the ICHR, are as follows :
B. B. Chaudhuri : "Agriculture, Rent and Revenue"; Rs 12000; Not submitted. S. Bhattacharya : "Financial and Currency Policies"; Rs 12000; Not submitted.Surendra Gopal : "Trade (inland and foreign) in the 17th and 18th Centuries"; Rs 12000; Not submitted. Nilomani Mukherjee : "Trade (inland and foreign) in 19th and 20th Centuries"; Rs 12000; Not submitted. A. K. Bagchi : "Indian Industries (1860-1939"; Rs 12000; Not submitted. V. B. Singh : "Labour, Prices, and Wages (1914-45)"; Rs 12000; Submitted but not traceable.
In a word, as against the six volumes which were to have been published, not one has been published. The money having been disbursed, the project was just given up!
Only to be succeeded by an even more ambitious project around the same theme, the "Project on Documentation on Economic History." What about this one ?, I asked. After all, it had been listed by the ICHR itself as one of the major projects the Council had undertaken. The project was commenced in 1992, says the ICHR. Seventeen volumes were to be produced between 1992 and 1997. The total cost was to be Rs 25 lakhs. As of today, says the ICHR, no volume has been published. And a cool Rs 195,000 have already been spent.
What about the "Medieval Sources Project" ?, I asked. After some search, the ICHR has supplied the following list of the scholars to whom the work was assigned, the subject he was to cover, the money sanctioned to each, and the result :
1. Satish Chandra & Co. : Hindi translation of "Early Sources of Akbar's Reign"; Not completed, money not indicated. 2. Irfan Habib : Akbarat-e-Aurangzeb : Rs 27000; Not completed. 3. Moonis Raza : "Atlas of the Mughal Empire" : Rs 22400; Not completed. 4. Anis Faruqi : Tashir-ul-Aqwani : Rs 9000; Not completed. 5. Satish Chandra : Documents on Social and Economic History : Rs 23000; Not completed. 6. P. Saran : Tarikh-i-Akbari : Rs 18500; Submitted but not traceable
-- but on that last entry, more in a moment.
What about the much-touted "Translation Project", I inquired. It began in April, 1972, the ICHR says, when the National Book Trust proposal for translating the volumes in the Bhartiya Vidya Bhavan Series on the history and culture of India was received in the ICHR. A committee consisting of the usual eminencies -- S. Gopal, Tapan Raychaudhuri, Satish Chandra, Romila Thapar -- was constituted. This Committee resolved that the Bhartiya Vidya Bhavan volumes -- which in fact are the very best and most outstanding of works produced in the last fifty years -- "are not suitable for translation into Indian languages," and that this proposal should not be pursued any further. The Committee suggested that alternative titles be selected for translation.
And, lo and behold!, the largest number of titles which the eminent historians selected were of the eminencies themselves, and of those who advocated their line! R. S. Sharma, a Chairman of the ICHR : five titles; S. Gopal : three titles; Romila Thapar : three titles; Bipin Chandra : two titles; Irfan Habib : two titles; his father, Mohammed Habib : two titles; Satish Chandra : one title...
What amount has been spent on this Project, I inquired, how much royalty was paid to the authors, I inquired. The ICHR has incurred an expenditure of Rs 4,189,000, the Ministry said, and added, "Authors of the books selected for translation were not paid royalties."
Having got to know their ways by now, I persisted. Had I used the wrong word ?, I inquired. Had they got payment under some head other than "royalties"? The ICHR has now said that in fact authors were paid, "a lump sum for translation rights" : Rs 1000 per language per volume if the book was more than 200 pages, and Rs 500 per language per volume if the book was less than 200 pages. Hence, R S Sharma got a total of Rs 47000 for his books; Bipin Chandra, Rs 14000; Irfan Habib, Rs 11000; Romila Thapar, Rs 12000...
What other projects have been undertaken ?, I inquired, and to what result ? The ICHR's list :
1. K.K. Dutta : "Old Zamindari Records of Bihar" : Rs 12000; Submitted two volumes but not traceable. 2. B. Ramakrishna : "Writings of Veerasalingam" : Rs 12000; Not submitted. 3. Bipan Chandra : "Oral History Project" : Rs 75000 from ICHR, Rs 200,000 from ICSSR, and Rs 400,000 from JNU; Not completed.
Having reached our friend, the eminence, again, I abandoned the search.
In his question V. N. Gadgil had asked the Minister to state "whether several hundred manuscripts are either missing from the Council's custody or are totally damaged; if so, what action Government have taken in the matter." In its written reply to the Rajya Sabha the Ministry stated, "The ICHR have informed that a few manuscripts are reportedly either missing or have not been sent to the Press for certain reasons. The Council have intimated that it has initiated action to ascertain whether any manuscript has been lost or appropriated otherwise."
Another rat : see how the case of manuscripts which were "missing" had been clubbed with that of manuscripts which "have not been sent to the Press for certain reasons." And how the case of manuscripts which have been lost had been clubbed with that of manuscripts which have been "appropriated otherwise."
I, therefore, wrote to the Ministry inquiring, "How many manuscripts are covered by the phrase 'a few manuscripts' ?" Second, could information please be compiled separately for manuscripts which have been "lost" and those which have "not been sent to the Press for certain reasons ?" Third, "Since when has the ICHR 'initiated action to ascertain whether any manuscript been lost or appropriated otherwise'? What is the current status of this so-called action? In particular, is it a fact that the manuscript submitted by one of the most distinguished medieval Indian historians, Dr.P. Saran has been 'missing' ? Is it a fact that an inquiry has been instituted to ascertain whether this very manuscript has been purloined by a staff member and printed under his name?"
On 24 July, 1998, I received not one but two letters from the Ministry. One stated that details in this regard were being collected. The second letter of the same day stated, "As regards missing manuscripts, the Council has stated that to the best of their knowledge no manuscript is missing." I naturally had to draw the attention of the Ministry to the fact that this was at considerable variance with what they had implied in reply to Gadgil's question.
But much more curious was what they said about the specific manuscript to which I had drawn their attention -- namely, that of Dr. Parmatma Saran. The note accompanying one letter said, "The Council has been requested to furnish details in this regard." The note accompanying the second letter of the same day said, "As regards Dr. Parmatma Saran's manuscript entitled 'Tarikh-i-Akbari' (English translation) does not appear to have been received in the Council. However, an extensive search is on to trace it in the archives."
I pointed out to the Ministry that this assertion was, to say the least, odd. How did it square with the fact that the Annual Report of the Council for 1976-1977 on pages 10 and 11 had listed the "English translation of Arif Qandhari's Tarikh-i-Akbari by Dr Parmatma Saran" as being among the volumes which "have already been completed and received in the Council" ? How did what was being said now -- that the manuscript "does not appear to have been received in the Council" -- square with the fact that the Annual Report of the Council for 1977-1978 had on page 9 listed "Tarikh-i-Akbari of Arif Qandhari : English translation by Dr Parmatma Saran" as having "been received in the Council" ?
The ICHR has at last taken a giant step closer to the truth. It says, Yes, the Annual Reports confirm that the manuscript prepared by Dr. Saran was indeed received in the Council. Yes, Dr. Saran died, his son-in-law wrote to the Council in 1995. He pointed out that the Annual Reports of the Council themselves showed that the manuscript had been received by the ICHR, and added, "As we understand, this project of my father-in-law was to be later published by the ICHR. We are not aware if this has indeed been done by the ICHR although nearly 20 years have elapsed since the translation was completed, but we have been extremely disturbed to hear stories to the effect that not only has someone else published the translation as his own work, but that this has been done by a member of the staff of the ICHR..."
The ICHR now acknowledges that an inquiry was initiated in 1995. The heads of the Publications Section, of the Grants-in-Aid Section, and of the Medieval Unit were asked what had happened to the manuscript. The Grants-in-Aid Section had confirmed that the manuscript had been received. The Publications Section said the manuscript had never been forwarded to it. That left the Section which was in a sense responsible for overseeing the project -- the Medieval Unit. The Deputy Director in charge of this unit said that the manuscript was not traceable in his unit. Not satisfied with the reply, the then Director once again urged the Deputy Director, Medieval Unit, "to do his best efforts [sic.] to trace out the manuscript."
But the friends, all entangled in those "webs of mutual complicity," intervened. And the inquiry was killed.
Guess who obtained a Ph. D. from Rajasthan University in 1992 by submitting "an annotated English translation of Arif Qandhari's Tarikh-i-Akbari". Guess who has published the book in his name ? The very same Deputy Director in charge of the ICHR's Medieval Unit -- Tasneem Ahmed! And guess who has written the preface to the book ? The very eminent Irfan Habib!
And guess what has happened now that the issue has been pursued ? The appropriator had thought he had executed the perfect crime -- that he had destroyed the manuscript of Dr. Saran. But the thorough search initiated by the current Chairman of the ICHR yielded sixty two pages of the manuscript in another file -- with corrections in the late Dr. Saran's own hand ! And wonder of wonders -- that manuscript written twenty years earlier was an exact verbatim prelude to the book published by Tasneem Ahmed as his own !
A new Committee was therefore constituted to compare the two and assess the chances that this miracle could have happened without the Deputy Director of the Council Tasneem Ahmed having stolen Dr. Saran's work!

I look forward to the happy result.

2. 1857-1885 : S. R. Mehrotra : Rs 12000; Not submitted.
3. 1885-1886 : Bipin Chandra : Rs 12000; Not submitted.
4. 1896-98 : Bipan Chandra : Not assigned.
5. 1899-1902 : B.L. Grover : Rs 12000; Submitted and published.
6. 1902-1903 : B.L. Grover : Not assigned.
7. 1903-1905 : B.L. Grover : Not assigned.
8. 1905-1907 : Sumit Sarkar : Rs 12000; Not submitted. 9. 1907-1909 : Sumit Sarkar : Rs 12000; Not submitted. 10. 1910-1915 : M.N. Das : Rs 12000; Not submitted. 11. 1915-1919 : T.K. Ravindran : Rs 12000; Not submitted. 12. 1919-1920 : V. N. Duty : Rs 12000; Submitted and published. 13. 1920-1922 : Sita Ram Singh : Rs 12000; Submitted, under production. 14. 1922-1924 : Sreekumaran Nair : Rs 12000; Submitted and published. 15. 1924-1926 : Amba Prasad : Rs 12000; Not submitted. 16. 1927-1929 : Bimal Prasad : Rs 12000; Not submitted. 17. 1930-1931 : Bimal Prasad : Rs 12000; Not submitted. 18. 1932-1934 : Bipan Chandra : Rs 12000; Not submitted. 19. 1934-1937 : Gopal Krishna : Rs 12000; Not submitted.



How many have given back awards?

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby svinayak » 03 Nov 2015 23:42

Here is a revealing note from friend A**** V****. Anyone who is still deluded that free speech exists take note. I suspect the hand of the leftist establishment in this foul play:
While the brand value has been projected to have increased, the cultural content being proliferated by the MEA through its youtube channel "Indian Diplomacy" is restricted in the U.S. (This change has been a very recent development - just in the last two weeks) Many important documentaries hosted by MEA through its Youtube channel have been locked out specifically in the U.S. Have a look:


So a secret group within India and outside India are undermining the Indian govt and news channel of Indian govt.

The leftist liberals awards and protest against PM in all his foreign visits , western intellectuals signing petitions against India
and Indian TV media fake propaganda against India intolerance are all linked.

Somebody said that Anuj Dhar - Netaji Subhash and the details coming out in Jan 2016 is linked to these protest from the intellectuals. Met Anuj Dhar recently. Very good information from him and he is going to make world headlines in Jan

Keep collecting info on all these subjects and we need to connect the dots

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 04 Nov 2015 02:52


chaanakya
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby chaanakya » 04 Nov 2015 19:06

When CR is brought to India he could be detained under NSA. Of course he would not challenge it and could continue under safety of Indian custody if there is any agreement. Bringing to court and arresting him etc may not serve much purpose. Custodial interrogation can be done by any agency if they feel it appropriate. After release from maximum term he could be re detained or arrested if need be in different cases one after another.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 12 Nov 2015 04:47

muraliravi showed on twitter BJP did not lose vote share and yet lost.

I have theory.

Bihar polls were complex.
Everyone including media thought they were complicated.

Pranaoy Roy and Shekhar Gupta were flummoxed.

Complicated systems are well defined pieces put together like a car or a machine.
Robustness is achieved by redundancy.

Complex Systems are different

Robustness is achieved by having individual parts to adopt and adapt.

By centralizing control, like in Gujarat and UP style, in Bihar, BJP did not adapt as campaign evolved.*
For instance the spread of de-reservation message/intolerance message were like flocking a phenomena which explains complex systems behavior. Spread of fear by word of mouth.

Only way for BJP to win was old Chanakya neti of breaking enemies.

* Looks like Kakaji posted article gist also points to this.

Amit Shah is going no where.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Paul » 12 Nov 2015 10:02

Modi needs to repeat Kejriwal and IG trick on a whole new level if he wants to win in 2019. Break away from old guard. Form a new party maybe a year before the elections.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Nov 2015 11:06

No new trick is required, just do some governance, RJD kept quiet in order tog et power after 10 years, now they will go full steam. Nitish will loose 50% of his support in 2 years time.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Paul » 12 Nov 2015 15:16

Good Governance is not enough to keep the votebank together. By 2019 either the deadwood goes out. He needs a new team

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby RoyG » 12 Nov 2015 19:30

Paul wrote:Good Governance is not enough to keep the votebank together. By 2019 either the deadwood goes out. He needs a new team


I would say there def needs to be a restructuring. It will also need to get legislation through somehow. Simply don't have the time especially with color revolution type of events brewing within the country and on its periphery.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Manny » 13 Nov 2015 23:26

http://www.desicontrarian.com/the-hindu ... -in-india/

“THE HINDU” NEWSPAPER STOKING FOR A GENOCIDE IN INDIA

The leftist pap of a newspaper in India called “The Hindu” has been inflaming and stoking for a communal hatred between citizens of India. They have been constantly propagandizing and writing outrageous editorials in its newspapers to build a chasm between peoples of Tamilnadu, India.

This week is a celebration of “good over evil”, light over darkness, Knowledge over ignorance. This festival is called “Diwali” or “Deepavali”. This is the biggest religious celebration for Hindus.

And this trash called “The Hindu” runs an article about how the “evil” portrayed by “good vs evil” is a “dalit” an untouchable caste

disha
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby disha » 14 Nov 2015 03:13

Major news., major terrorist attack in France. 25 people dead. several hostages taken.

Islam is religion of peace.

Modi talked about taking on terrorism today. This must resonate across the channel.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby JwalaMukhi » 15 Nov 2015 21:37

Paul wrote:Good Governance is not enough to keep the votebank together. By 2019 either the deadwood goes out. He needs a new team

Unfortunately, there is no governance, let alone good one. NDA is ruling, but the power is still with congress. The present dispensation is in deep competition to be the most secular one, with governance being a secondary byproduct.
What explains:
1) Continuing to have ties with pakis by promoting kirket match, all the while lamenting about how US, UK etc should stop supporting pakis? If one continues to behave like abused spouse one will get treated as such.
2) Molly coddling media that actively abets pakisque secularism views.
3) Being a voluntary door-mat by declaring one day mourning for saudi king.

Manny
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Manny » 16 Nov 2015 05:56

Merry Diwali!

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Image

And for this Merry Diwali We are kidnapping...err I mean adopting Ganehsji!

Image

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


http://www.desicontrarian.com/religious-iconoclasm/]


THIS MAKES ME SO SAD AND ANGRY
POSTED ON JUNE 5, 2015
Today I discovered that at least one and most likely two very nice young couples are in reality, the worst kind of Jew scammers.

A few weeks ago, during the Kiddush after Shabbos services, I met two couples that are so young, I was surprised they were married. They were dressed as Orthodox Jews right down to the tzitzit on the men (although the women’s heads were uncovered) but there was something, “off” about them. During our conversation I discovered that they were Christians that were looking to connect with and eventually convert to Judaism. I asked them if along their path they had ever been involved with any messianic “Jewish” organizations such as, Hope of Israel. They said no but they had been members of Bella Torah. I must have looked askance because they quickly disavowed the group. They said that they discovered it was phony Judaism and that was why they were here.

The following Tuesday I was at the JLI (Jewish Learning Institute) at Chabad and one of the couples was there as well. We spoke again and they were such a nice young couple that I let my guard down.

During Kiddush a week ago, my husband overheard the men making irreverent comments about what one of the Rabbis was saying. He later told me that he got a bad vibe from them, even thinking that they might be Jew Scammers.

It was the last JLI class last night and the placards with our full names on them were clearly visible. I copied down the names of the one couple that was there. The next morning I started my investigation. Sadly, I quickly found out that they were still active members of Bella Torah. I have written about Bella Torah and their connection to First Fruits of Zion (FFOZ). FFOZ is a Torah centric, educational clearing house for groups of messianic “Jews”. They teach them to do everything they can to be more like the Jews. It is a slightly different form of Messianic “Judaism” as they tell the Jews they do not want to convert them, just study Torah together. This Torah however is not our Torah. They then take their time bringing in the Jesus centered conversations.

Once I had gathered all my evidence, I called Chabad and spoke to one of the Rabbis. He asked me to send the information to him which I did. It was a very sad moment for me and for the Rabbi as well. He told me that Joseph Squiccharini had assured him that they had no intentions of trying to convert any Jews.

The first thing Joseph told me when I was introduced to him was that he was Jewish. When I commented that his name was very Italian sounding and asked if he might be Sephardic, he quickly backpedaled and said that his whole family was studying to become Jewish. When I met his wife moments later and asked how she was doing in conversion classes, she looked at me as if I had two heads. She emphatically stated that she, Joseph and her children were all Christian and had no intention of ever becoming Jewish. Joseph heard me talking to her and after giving his wife one of those “looks” said that they hadn’t started conversion classes yet but were hoping to in the near future. Rule one; like Doctor Who, Joseph lies. In fact, they all lie, all these Christians who devote their lives to make themselves seem Jewish to lure Jews into becoming Christian.

As I write this post I can feel my sadness turning to anger. How could I have allowed myself to be duped by these people? Every other time I have met one of these Jew Scammers the hairs on the back of my neck have literally stood up. Not this time. I was fooled by the obvious warmth of these four young people and ignored my own early suspicions. That will never happen again.

Here is my biggest fear; if I can be fooled, even for a short time, how many others will be as well. The evangelical Christians are spending millions, possibly billions of dollars to do one thing; get Jews to accept Jesus as their savior.They are fanatics and they will not be stopped. The only answer is to keep educating Jews, not only about the multitudes of Jew Scammers out there but about their own religion. Judaism is full of beauty and spirituality. It is there for you to learn. Judaism is our beautiful heritage and why any Jew would look for that light elsewhere is a question for which I have no answer.

RELIGIOUS ICONOCLASM!

Lilo
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Lilo » 17 Nov 2015 23:17

X-post

Historians, archaeologists, scholars call for unbiased and rigorous new historiography of India
A group of eminent historians, archaeologists and scholars has responded to two separate statements on 'rising intolerance' — one issued by 53 academic historians and the other, an open letter by academic historians and social scientists of India at academic institutions overseas — saying they are "neither intellectual nor academic in substance, but ideological and, much more so, political."

Here's the full text of their statement:

On 26 October, 53 Indian historians voiced alarm at what they perceived to be the country’s “highly vitiated atmosphere” and protested against attempts to impose “legislated history, a manufactured image of the past, glorifying certain aspects of it and denigrating others....” This was soon followed by an “Open letter from overseas historians and social scientists”, 176 of them, warning against “a dangerously pervasive atmosphere of narrowness, intolerance and bigotry” and “a monolithic and flattened view of India's history.”


Such closely-linked statements appearing with clockwork regularity in India and abroad — there have been several more from various “intellectual” circles — are a well-orchestrated campaign to create a bogeyman and cry wolf. They are neither intellectual nor academic in substance, but ideological and, much more so, political.


As historians, archaeologists and academics specializing in diverse aspects of Indian civilization, we wish to respond to these hypocritical attempts to claim the moral high ground. Many of the signatories of the above two statements by Indian and “overseas” historians have been part of a politico-ideological apparatus which, from the 1970s onward, has come to dominate most historical bodies in the country, including the Indian Council of Historical Research (ICHR), and imposed its blinkered view of Indian historiography on the whole academic discipline.


Anchored mainly in Marxist historiography and leftist ideology, with a few borrowings from postmodernism, the Annales School, Subaltern and other studies, this new School, which may be called “Leftist” for want of a better term, has become synonymous with a number of abusive and unscholarly practises; among them:

1. A reductionist approach viewing the evolution of Indian society almost entirely through the prism of the caste system, emphasizing its mechanisms of “exclusion” while neglecting those of integration without which Indian society would have disintegrated long ago.

2. A near-complete erasure of India’s knowledge systems in every field —philosophical, linguistic, literary, scientific, medical, technological or artistic — and a general underemphasis of India’s important contributions to other cultures and civilizations . In this, the Leftist School has been a faithful inheritor of colonial historiography, except that it no longer has the excuse of ignorance. Yet it claims to provide an accurate and “scientific” portrayal of India!

3. A denial of the continuity and originality of India’s Hindu-Buddhist-Jain-Sikh culture , ignoring the work of generations of Indian and Western Indologists. Hindu identity, especially, has been a pet aversion of this School, which has variously portrayed it as being disconnected from Vedic antecedents, irrational, superstitious, regressive, barbaric — ultimately “imagined” and, by implication, illegitimate.

4. A refusal to acknowledge the well-documented darker chapters of Indian history , in particular the brutality of many Muslim rulers and their numerous Buddhist, Jain, Hindu and occasionally Christian and Muslim victims (ironically, some of these tyrants are glorified today); the brutal intolerance of the Church in Goa, Kerala and Puducherry; and the state-engineered economic and cultural impoverishment of India under the British rule. While history worldwide has wisely called for millions of nameless victims to be remembered, Indian victims have had to suffer a second death, that of oblivion, and often even derision.

5. A neglect of tribal histories : For all its claims to give a voice to “marginalized” or “oppressed” sections of Indian society, the Leftist School has hardly allowed a space to India’s tribal communities and the rich contributions of their tribal belief systems and heritage. When it has condescended to take notice, it has generally been to project Hindu culture and faith traditions as inimical to tribal cultures and beliefs, whereas in reality the latter have much more in common with the former than with the religions imposed on them through militant conversions.

6. A biased and defective use of sources : Texts as well as archaeological or epigraphic evidence have been misread or selectively used to fit preconceived theories. Advances of Indological researches in the last few decades have been ignored, as have been Indian or Western historians, archaeologists, anthropologists who have differed from the Leftist School. Archaeologists who developed alternative perspectives after considerable research have been sidelined or negatively branded. Scientific inputs from many disciplines, from palaeo-environmental to genetic studies have been neglected.

7. A disquieting absence of professional ethics : The Leftist School has not academically critiqued dissenting Indian historians, preferring to dismiss them as “Nationalist” or “communal”. Many academics have suffered discrimination, virtual ostracism and loss of professional opportunities because they would not toe the line, enforced through political support since the days of Nurul Hasan. The Indian History Congress and the ICHR, among other institutions, became arenas of power play and political as well as financial manipulation. In effect, the Leftist School succeeded in projecting itself as the one and only, crushing debate and dissent and polarizing the academic community.


While we reject attempts to portray India’s past as a glorious and perfect golden age, we condemn the far more pernicious imposition by the Leftist School of a “legislated history”, which has presented an alienating and debilitating self-image to generations of Indian students, and promoted contempt for their civilizational heritage. The “values and traditions of plurality that India had always cherished in the past” are precisely those this School has never practised. We call for an unbiased and rigorous new historiography of India.


1. Dr. Dilip K. Chakrabarti , Emeritus Professor, Cambridge University, UK; Dean, Centre of Historical and Civilizational Studies, Vivekananda International Foundation, Chanakyapuri, Delhi; member, ICHR

2. Dr. Saradindu Mukherji , historian, retired from Delhi University; member, ICHR

3. Dr. Nanditha Krishna , Director, CPR Institute of Indological Research, Chennai; member, ICHR

4. Dr. M.D. Srinivas , former professor of theoretical physics; former vice-chairman, Indian Institute of Advanced Study; chairman, Centre for Policy Studies, Chennai; member, ICHR

5. Dr. Meenakshi Jain , associate professor of history, Delhi University; member, ICHR

6. Michel Danino , guest professor, IIT Gandhinagar; member, ICHR

7. Prof. B.B. Lal , former Director General, Archaeological Survey of India

8. Dr. R.S. Bisht , former Joint Director General, Archaeological Survey of India

9. Dr. R. Nagaswamy , former Director of Archaeology, Govt. of Tamil Nadu; Vice Chancellor, Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswathi Viswa Mahavidyalaya, Kanchipuram

10. Dr. B.M. Pande , Former Director, Archaeological Survey of India

11. Prof. Dayanath Tripathi , former Chairman, ICHR; former Head, Dept. of Ancient History, Archaeology and Culture, D.D.U. Gorakhpur University, Gorakhpur; former Visiting Professor at Cambridge, British Academy

12. Prof. R.C. Agrawal , President, Rock Art Society of India; former Member Secretary of ICHR

13. Prof. K.V. Raman , former professor of Ancient Indian History & Archaeology, University of Madras

14. Dr. Padma Subrahmanyam , Dancer and Research Scholar

15. Prof. Kapil Kapoor , former Rector, Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi; Chancellor, Mahatma Gandhi Antararashtriya Hindi Vishwavidyalaya, Wardha (Maharashtra)

16. Prof. Madhu Kishwar , Professor, Centre for the Study of Developing Societies, New Delhi

17. Dr. Chandrakala Padia , Vice Chancellor, Maharaja Ganga Singh University (Rajasthan); Chairperson, Indian Institute of Advanced Study, Shimla

18. Sachchidanand Sahai , Ph.D. (Paris), National Professor in Epigraphy, Ministry of Culture, Government of India, Advisor to Preah Vihear National Authority under the Royal Government of Cambodia; member, ICHR

19. Dr. J.K. Bajaj , Director Centre for Policy Studies, Former Member ICSSR

20. Dr. Makarand Paranjape , Professor of English, JNU; Visiting Global South Fellow, University of Tuebingen

21. Dr. Nikhiles Guha , former professor of history, University of Kalyani, West Bengal; member, ICHR

22. Prof. Issac C.I. , member, ICHR

23. Prof. (Dr.) Purabi Roy , member, ICHR

24. Prof. Jagbir Singh , Former Professor and Head, Dept. of Punjabi, University of Delhi; Life Fellow, Punjabi University, Patiala.

25. Dr. G.J. Sudhakar , former Associate Professor, Dept. of History, Loyola College, Chennai

26. Dr. Bharat Gupt , Former Associate Professor, Delhi University

27. Prof. O.P. Kejariwal , Central Information Commissioner & Nehru Fellow

28. Dr. S.C. Bhattacharya , former Professor and HOD, Ancient History, Culture and Archaeology, Allahabad University; former National Fellow, IIAS, Shimla

29. Prof. S.K. Chakraborty , former professor, Management Centre for Human Values, Indian Institute of Management Calcutta

30. Dr. Amarjiva Lochan , Associate Professor in History, Delhi University; President, South and Southeast Asian Association for the Study of Culture & Religion (SSEASR) under IAHR, affiliated to the UNESCO

31. Dr. R.N. Iyengar , Distinguished Professor, Jain University, Bangalore

32. Professor (Dr) R. Nath , former Professor of History, University of Rajasthan, Jaipur

33. Kirit Mankodi , archaeologist, consultant to Project for Indian Cultural Studies, Mumbai

34. Prof. K. Ramasubramanian , Cell for Indian Science and Technology in Sanskrit, IIT Bombay; Council Member International Union for History and Philosophy of Science; member, Rashtriya Sanksrit Parishad

35. Dr. M.S. Sriram , Retired Professor and Head, Department of Theoretical Physics, University of Madras; Member Editorial Board, Indian Journal of History of Science; Former Member, Research Council for History of Science, INSA

36. Dr. Amartya Kumar Dutta , Professor of Mathematics, Indian Statistical Institute, Kolkata

37. Dr. Godabarisha Mishra , Professor and Head, Dept. of Philosophy, University of Madras

38. Dr. R. Ganesh , Shathavadhani, Sanskrit scholar

39. Sri Banwari , Academic and Journalist; former Resident Editor, Jansatta

40. Dr. S. Krishnan , Associate Professor, Dept of Mathematics, IIT Bombay

41. Dr. Rajnish Kumar Mishra , Associate Professor, Special Centre for Sanskrit Studies, Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi

42. Dr. Vikram Sampath , Director, Symbiosis School of Media and Communication; former Director of Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts (IGNCA) - SRC; historian and author

43. Prof. K. Gopinath , Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore

44. Prof. M.A. Venkatakrishnan , former Professor and Head, Dept. of Vaishnavism, Madras University

45. Dr. Sumathi Krishnan , Musician and Musicologist

46. Dr. Prema Nandakumar , Author and translator

47. Dr. Santosh Kumar Shukla , Associate Professor, Special Centre for Sanskrit Studies, Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi

Very handy set of arguments in one place,when one needs to scuttle the "historical" arguments of leftist types .
Especially like a new word(for me) "Legislated History" in above petition .

A_Gupta
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Nov 2015 00:25

Why a country's brand matters:
http://blogs.cfr.org/asia/2015/11/17/ho ... -a-nation/

Use when someone complains about Modi's foreign policy.

shiv
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 18 Nov 2015 07:14

Image

member_29172
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby member_29172 » 18 Nov 2015 07:17

Please check out this link: http://bharatvani.org/books.html

Has a collection of books pertaining to the national interest, thanks

Prem
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 18 Nov 2015 09:28

Full text of statement issued by 46 academics against "leftist" historians :D
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 888794.ece

A group of eminent historians, archaeologists and scholars have responded to two separate statements on the issue of 'rising intolerance' — one issued by 53 academic historians and the other, an open letter by academic historians and social scientists of India at academic institutions overseas — saying they are "neither intellectual nor academic in substance, but ideological and, much more so, political."On 26 October, 53 Indian historians voiced alarm at what they perceived to be the country’s “highly vitiated atmosphere” and protested against attempts to impose “legislated history, a manufactured image of the past, glorifying certain aspects of it and denigrating others....” This was soon followed by an “Open letter from overseas historians and social scientists”, 176 of them, warning against “a dangerously pervasive atmosphere of narrowness, intolerance and bigotry” and “a monolithic and flattened view of India's history.”Such closely-linked statements appearing with clockwork regularity in India and abroad — there have been several more from various “intellectual” circles — are a well-orchestrated campaign to create a bogeyman and cry wolf. They are neither intellectual nor academic in substance, but ideological and, much more so, political.As historians, archaeologists and academics specializing in diverse aspects of Indian civilization, we wish to respond to these hypocritical attempts to claim the moral high ground. Many of the signatories of the above two statements by Indian and “overseas” historians have been part of a politico-ideological apparatus which, from the 1970s onward, has come to dominate most historical bodies in the country, including the Indian Council of Historical Research (ICHR), and imposed its blinkered view of Indian historiography on the whole academic discipline.
Anchored mainly in Marxist historiography and leftist ideology, with a few borrowings from postmodernism, the Annales School, Subaltern and other studies, this new School, which may be called “Leftist” for want of a better term, has become synonymous with a number of abusive and unscholarly practises; among them:

1. A reductionist approach viewing the evolution of Indian society almost entirely through the prism of the caste system, emphasizing its mechanisms of “exclusion” while neglecting those of integration without which Indian society would have disintegrated long ago.

2. A near-complete erasure of India’s knowledge systems in every field —philosophical, linguistic, literary, scientific, medical, technological or artistic — and a general underemphasis of India’s important contributions to other cultures and civilizations . In this, the Leftist School has been a faithful inheritor of colonial historiography, except that it no longer has the excuse of ignorance. Yet it claims to provide an accurate and “scientific” portrayal of India!

3. A denial of the continuity and originality of India’s Hindu-Buddhist-Jain-Sikh culture , ignoring the work of generations of Indian and Western Indologists. Hindu identity, especially, has been a pet aversion of this School, which has variously portrayed it as being disconnected from Vedic antecedents, irrational, superstitious, regressive, barbaric — ultimately “imagined” and, by implication, illegitimate.

4. A refusal to acknowledge the well-documented darker chapters of Indian history , in particular the brutality of many Muslim rulers and their numerous Buddhist, Jain, Hindu and occasionally Christian and Muslim victims (ironically, some of these tyrants are glorified today); the brutal intolerance of the Church in Goa, Kerala and Puducherry; and the state-engineered economic and cultural impoverishment of India under the British rule. While history worldwide has wisely called for millions of nameless victims to be remembered, Indian victims have had to suffer a second death, that of oblivion, and often even derision.
5. A neglect of tribal histories : For all its claims to give a voice to “marginalized” or “oppressed” sections of Indian society, the Leftist School has hardly allowed a space to India’s tribal communities and the rich contributions of their tribal belief systems and heritage. When it has condescended to take notice, it has generally been to project Hindu culture and faith traditions as inimical to tribal cultures and beliefs, whereas in reality the latter have much more in common with the former than with the religions imposed on them through militant conversions.
6. A biased and defective use of sources : Texts as well as archaeological or epigraphic evidence have been misread or selectively used to fit preconceived theories. Advances of Indological researches in the last few decades have been ignored, as have been Indian or Western historians, archaeologists, anthropologists who have differed from the Leftist School. Archaeologists who developed alternative perspectives after considerable research have been sidelined or negatively branded. Scientific inputs from many disciplines, from palaeo-environmental to genetic studies have been neglected.
7. A disquieting absence of professional ethics : The Leftist School has not academically critiqued dissenting Indian historians, preferring to dismiss them as “Nationalist” or “communal”. Many academics have suffered discrimination, virtual ostracism and loss of professional opportunities because they would not toe the line, enforced through political support since the days of Nurul Hasan. The Indian History Congress and the ICHR, among other institutions, became arenas of power play and political as well as financial manipulation. In effect, the Leftist School succeeded in projecting itself as the one and only, crushing debate and dissent and polarizing the academic community.
While we reject attempts to portray India’s past as a glorious and perfect golden age, we condemn the far more pernicious imposition by the Leftist School of a “legislated history”, which has presented an alienating and debilitating self-image to generations of Indian students, and promoted contempt for their civilizational heritage. The “values and traditions of plurality that India had always cherished in the past” are precisely those this School has never practised. We call for an unbiased and rigorous new historiography of India.

Manny
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Manny » 20 Nov 2015 09:31

St. Stephen’s bends its constitution for the Church

quote "Teachers fear that the amendment, if passed, would destroy the “secular and intellectual” fabric of the Delhi University college. “This is being done to establish oligarchy of Christians who will run the institution as they like. The new constitution removes the system of checks and balances. The secular and intellectual interest of the institution is being compromised by vested interests who have already brought bad name to the college,” said a senior teacher, who has been a governing body member."

“Now what is the legitimacy of the changes that are being brought? Moreover, the college is a government-funded institution and CNI does not even give 5% that they are supposed to give, so why is so much power being vested in them,” she asked.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/education ... hmHXM.html

THE SLOW COOKING OF THE HINDUS IN INDIA

http://www.desicontrarian.com/the-slow- ... -in-india/

vishvak
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby vishvak » 20 Nov 2015 20:49

What is this church of north India? Wonder what gives "north" kind of nomenclature any legitimacy even in education sector. I have not seen Russians - who have been communists - talk about north India or south India in any loose manner whatsoever.

shiv
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 23 Nov 2015 09:50

Indian Secularism is Colour Blind
When the U.S. launched the war in Iraq, there were protests across the world by anti-war activists. When Saudi Arabia launched the current air strikes on Yemen, anti-war activists went to sleep. Pakistani army regularly kills people in Balochistan, but Pakistanis do not rise up. In India, secular journalists who claim they are concerned about human rights do not get angry when victims are Hindu.

Indian secularism is colour-blind.

Secular journalists who are angry at Akhlaq’s killing adopted total silence on a number of murders recently. Last August, army jawan Vedmitra Chaudhury was lynched to death in Hardevnagar, near Meerut, for saving a girl from molesters. In March, a Hindu man was abducted and murdered in Hajipur of Bihar for marrying a Muslim girl. Last June, a man was lynched to death near Eluru in Andhra Pradesh. A mob killed a man in Bhandup West area of Mumbai in June.

Secular journalists’ colour-blindness prevents them from seeing these murders: they do not get angry; they want Muslims to be murdered; only then they speak up. Indian secularism has tasted the Muslim blood.

Indian secularism is not only colour-blind, it is also half-Pakistani.

Secular leader Arvind Kejriwal, the chief minister of Delhi, spoke with Ghulam Ali after his show was cancelled and will host him in Delhi. Secular leader Akhilesh Yadav, the chief minister of Uttar Pradesh, organised Ghulam Ali’s show in Lucknow.

But Kejriwal and Akhilesh didn’t invite our own Oscar-winning musician A. R. Rahman when his music show of 13 September in Delhi was cancelled due to a fatwa by the Barelvi group Raza Academy. Secularism does not like Indian Muslim singers; it does not like Indian writers like Salman Rushdie. Mamata Banerjee, another secular leader, supported Ghulam Ali, saying music has no international boundaries but she will not support Taslima Nasreen, the Bangladeshi writer.

Indian secularism is truly Pakistani, not even a quarter-Bangladeshi.

Indian secularism is also counter-nationalist: secular lawyers turned out at midnight before the Supreme Court to save the life of convicted terrorist Yakub Menon but remain silent on death sentences of common Indians.

Indian secularism is not even Indian: it is incomplete without eating beef. It loves to eat beef because Pakistanis eat beef. It is essentially Pakistani. It aligns with Pakistanis.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Yayavar » 23 Nov 2015 10:00

shiv wrote:Indian Secularism is Colour Blind
When the U.S. launched the war in Iraq, there were protests across the world by anti-war activists. When Saudi Arabia launched the current air strikes on Yemen, anti-war activists went to sleep. Pakistani army regularly kills people in Balochistan, but Pakistanis do not rise up. In India, secular journalists who claim they are concerned about human rights do not get angry when victims are Hindu.

Indian secularism is colour-blind.

Secular journalists who are angry at Akhlaq’s killing adopted total silence on a number of murders recently. Last August, army jawan Vedmitra Chaudhury was lynched to death in Hardevnagar, near Meerut, for saving a girl from molesters. In March, a Hindu man was abducted and murdered in Hajipur of Bihar for marrying a Muslim girl. Last June, a man was lynched to death near Eluru in Andhra Pradesh. A mob killed a man in Bhandup West area of Mumbai in June.

Secular journalists’ colour-blindness prevents them from seeing these murders: they do not get angry; they want Muslims to be murdered; only then they speak up. Indian secularism has tasted the Muslim blood.

Indian secularism is not only colour-blind, it is also half-Pakistani.

Secular leader Arvind Kejriwal, the chief minister of Delhi, spoke with Ghulam Ali after his show was cancelled and will host him in Delhi. Secular leader Akhilesh Yadav, the chief minister of Uttar Pradesh, organised Ghulam Ali’s show in Lucknow.

But Kejriwal and Akhilesh didn’t invite our own Oscar-winning musician A. R. Rahman when his music show of 13 September in Delhi was cancelled due to a fatwa by the Barelvi group Raza Academy. Secularism does not like Indian Muslim singers; it does not like Indian writers like Salman Rushdie. Mamata Banerjee, another secular leader, supported Ghulam Ali, saying music has no international boundaries but she will not support Taslima Nasreen, the Bangladeshi writer.

Indian secularism is truly Pakistani, not even a quarter-Bangladeshi.

Indian secularism is also counter-nationalist: secular lawyers turned out at midnight before the Supreme Court to save the life of convicted terrorist Yakub Menon but remain silent on death sentences of common Indians.

Indian secularism is not even Indian: it is incomplete without eating beef. It loves to eat beef because Pakistanis eat beef. It is essentially Pakistani. It aligns with Pakistanis.


Zabardast article. Hits home. Also great to note that it is was also published in Hindi paper Dainik jagaran ('secular qabeeley key log' - the people of secular tribe/group).

shiv
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 24 Nov 2015 21:35

Image

Prem
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 25 Nov 2015 05:31

https://www.academia.edu/18337993/The_R ... _Philology
The Real Threat to the Humanities Today: Andrew Nicholson, The Nay Science, and the Future of Philology

Vishwa Adluri and Joydeep Bagchee

we feel an obligation to scholarship to respond. Our task is made more difficult by the fact that we regard Nicholson as a colleague and as a friend. Our response takes the form of a quotation of key passages from his text, followed by a clarification beneath the respective passage. T
I also have questions about the authors’ frequent use of the word “pseudocritical.” Is their position that a true “critical Indology” is possible, but that German Indology has fallen short? There are two instances where Adluri and Bagchee seem to suggest that Indology has succeeded in being genuinely critical. One is the critical edition of the Mahābhārata completed by scholars at the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, to whom the book is dedicated . . . . The other genuinely critical attitude mentioned by Adluri and Bagchee is Mohandas K. Gandhi’s approach to the Bhagavad Gita.
(4) Nicholson confuses textual criticism with historical criticism, a distinction that is one of the central themes of the book. We defended textual criticism in the introduction being rather thename of a movement within Protestant theology advocating a Christocentric approach to the Bible, particularly the Old Testament . There is a good reason why we defended the work of the Bhandarkar Institute scholars: textual criticism is mechanical, rigorous, and follows objective and explicitly stated principles. The Bhandarkar Institute scholars were following textual criticism, not the pseudo-critical, anti-Semitic method of historical criticism


Long article,New word PSeudo Critical is now introduced in debate/Danga/Panga.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 25 Nov 2015 22:14

http://swarajyamag.com/culture/why-the- ... s-at-risk/
Why The Kumbh Mela Is At Risk
The sanctity of the mela is under threat from many directions. Keeping a traditional gathering open to all is different from losing control of it.

When Harvard University created a major new initiative called the Harvard Kumbh Mela Project, Hindus naturally became impressed and proud. After all, it brought global importance to our heritage. However, it is my nature to cross check such foreign interventions, and, therefore, I decided to study the project more closely. I also decided to take a look at various other international interventions on the Kumbh Mela besides those by Harvard. What I found has disconcerted me on several counts.
I have organized my concerns into the following categories, in increasing order of seriousness:
1. Dilution as exotic tourism2. Source of research for appropriation and digestion3. Distortion and secularization of the mela itself4. Infiltration and hijacking by Christian and Islamic groups
5. Condemnation as another “human rights violation” to be exposed through atrocity literature.
6. This is the destructive stage.To put it bluntly, I am suspicious of Harvard’s involvement, even if those directly involved in it might be innocent at this stage. Nor is my concern entirely focused on Harvard. There is a long history of Western interventions that have benign and noble beginnings, but that later take a dangerous turn. There is still time to investigate the risks discussed below, and I will offer some concrete recommendations to prevent the hijacking and destruction of the Kumbh Mela.
Professor Diana Eck, Harvard’s renowned professor of Hinduism studies, made a telling remark in the official video by Harvard’s Kumbh Mela project team. In a sense, she inadvertently gave away the hidden agenda. She said that she missed seeing feminist NGOs at the mela (1). This is exactly how Ford Foundation started its interventions in India several decades back: by training, funding and empowering several feminist NGOs in India, and then using them to dish out atrocity literature on Indian society, along with the large-scale training of a whole generation of Indian women in Western feminist ideology. The goal was to make Western feminist ideologies fashionable among the bright, young women of India by constantly encouraging them to do studies on women’s oppression in Indian society. I certainly want our society’s serious gender issues to be studied and remedied; however, there ought to be balanced research on the pros and cons of importing Western feminism into Indian society in such an aggressive manner.The resources for gender studies within Indian traditions should also be brought into play in such analyses.In other words, if one looks at the themes and results produced by the hundreds of anthropology and social sciences projects on India, the same list of research investigations can easily be applied to the Kumbh Mela. This would make the mela a new “site for research” in South Asian studies. Thus far, the mela has been almost entirely ignored by Western researchers, and so far their “sites” for such research have been in poor villages, in “Hindu chauvinism” organizations, in episodes of violence where Hinduism can be blamed, etc. I fear that this mela is about to turn into the latest playground for such mischief.In the same way, demographic studies will soon be commissioned on caste exploitation at the mela. The façade will be to position these as diversity studies. The real goal of these will be to look for inequalities in the facilities available to caste groups. As in all sociological research, Indian NGOs and political groups representing various fragments will get roped in to politicize the mela. If the other trajectories of Western research interventions are any indicator, one may expect Western-sponsored research to look for crime against sadhvis and lower caste participants. There will be dissertations written with juicy allegations concerning women being victims of rape, tantric sex orgies, etc. Case studies will get published in National Geographic magazine, and Western television documentaries will be produced on dowry, sati, idolatry, some naked sadhus allegedly eating human flesh, etc.

The mela will turn into the biggest unexplored frontier of the exotic, “uncivilized and dangerous” others. It is far too open, and this offers huge opportunities for Western frontiersmen seeking adventure, fame, and fortune. Already, there were media reporters at the Nasik Kumbh Mela saying that there ought to be large scale distribution of condoms at the Kumbh Mela. Times of India set the ball rolling on this sensation (2) with India Today and Britain’s Daily Mail quickly picking up the hot story (3).A blog by the Harvard Kumbh Mela team reported: “One of the major outcomes of this group’s research was observing the concern many people at the Kumbh had about the pollution produced throughout the course of this festival.” (4) In other words, we can expect future research on how the mela causes pollution, and just as Divali, Ganesh festival, and some other Hindu festivals have already become targeted as environmental hazards, so will the Kumbh Mela be added to the list of primitive nuisance practices. Students from Harvard and other places will be assigned projects to document the health hazard being caused by immersing ash and other ritualistic objects into the Ganga and by the cremation of dead bodies and disposal in the rivers all year long, etc. In other words, apart from the feminist and sociological lens explained above, the environmentalism lens will also get applied to “study” the mela. This will be presented (and appreciated by many Indians) as Western “assistance” to help upgrade and modernize the mela.The atrocity literature production about the mela is bound to explode with the help of camera crews that are everywhere. One enterprising Westerner bragged that he participated in the tradition of kite flying on the river bank, as this allowed him to hide a camera on his kite, thereby turning it into a drone for filming from the sky: imagine the treasure trove of scandalous and sensational video footage he could collect this way!

There are already attempts by Christian missionaries to infiltrate the mela for proselytizing. Any restrictions against this are likely to be challenged by missionaries with the help of their Western and Indian supporters. Arguments will be made that since “nobody owns the mela” or the Ganga (or any other public place where the mela is held), every citizen should have an equal right to go for a dip in the river. Such infiltrations will start in a small and passive way to get inside the door, and then gradually become entrenched and expand in size, scope, and level of assertiveness. Missionaries are experienced in entering as good guests using sama (friendship) and dana (charity). They will undoubtedly bring lots of free things to give away, and this will be a big hit among the villagers who comprise most of the attendees at the mela.I anticipate that many confused Hindu groups who teach that all religions are the same will become facilitators to help such penetration by Abrahamic religions. How would one object to a so-called Hindu organization wanting to put up pictures of Jesus depicted as a yogi, or Mother Mary in a saree wearing a bindi? How would one stop prasad being given away by a missionary school wanting to feed the poor children at the mela? There are plenty of confused Hindu groups seeking the international limelight and money who will be glad to facilitate in opening such doors.Harvard’s Pluralism Project (also run by Diana Eck) could easily open the door in the name of studying and nurturing “pluralism”. To disarm naïve Hindu leaders, it will offer patronizing praise for “Hindu tolerance” that would stir pride among these leaders. All this would make it difficult for anyone to deny them free access for their strategic intrusions.
Secularization of the Kumbh Mela is another shift that is not far away, either.

The first mela intervention by Harvard has already succeeded in its goal to secure a buy-in from many kinds of elites in India. Unfortunately, these elites lack far sightedness and are easily bought off, in exchange for prestigious association with Harvard and other international institutions.
Scholars of the colonization process must take note that Harvard refers to its work as “mapping” the Kumbh Mela (7). One has to read Benedict Anderson’s Imagined Communities to understand how the British colonialists were obsessed with the mapping (in a broad sense of organizing databases) of the geography, population, religious practices, social and political structures, all for the purpose of developing a template for better negotiation and control. The same kind of mapping had earlier been done in North America by the European settlers, which helped their systematic aggression against the natives. Some of the best socio-religious databases on India at the district and village level are the ones developed by the Church and CIA.Harvard refers to its Kumbh Mela project as an interdisciplinary one, combining many departments each with its own separate lens. The departments already participating include: urban planning, logistics, public health, religious studies, business school, anthropology, design school, etc. Each lens is highly secularized, lacking even an iota of shraddha for our traditions. They are looking for “interesting specimens” to study. This is a perfect example of a synthetic unity framework being used to study (and distort) the integral unity.

None of the materials produced by Harvard’s team have discussed the metaphysical meaning of the yajna being carried out at the Kumbh Mela. When they did discuss the “myth” behind the mela, it was presented as some exotic, primitive story along the lines of a Hollywood movie like Lord of the Rings. They do not have the embodied knowing experience, or even the interest, to appreciate the metaphysics of ritam and yajna, and how these manifest in every aspect of the world including in our lives. Such a profound insight into the integral unity lacks because there is no shraddha in the top leadership of the project. None of the project experts interviewed on camera mentioned anything about the metaphysics of re-enacting the cosmic yajna as the purpose of the mela. It is the latest hunting ground for the anthropology of the exotica and erotica.Harvard’s team has announced that in the next phase they will move from descriptions/modeling to prescriptions and interventions. This will make it more dangerous in my opinion. The purpose of their interventions, they said, will be to “solve issues” and bring better “architecture/public health policies and assistance.” In other words, they make no secret that having “mapped” the Kumbh Mela within their framework, now it’s time to intervene in various ways. Sadly, we have quite a few clueless swamis, sadhus and gurus already eagerly waiting to serve them as functionaries for “reforming” the Kumbh Mela.I am not saying all these stages will necessarily happen. I predict this as the likely trajectory if things continue in a present manner. The grand effect of all this will be a sweeping shift in the adhikar to interpret our traditions.. Our leaders must develop poison pills to protect against digestion. These include respect for living gurus, sacred places, non-translatables, sacred sounds and mantras, sacred objects and symbols.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Paul » 26 Nov 2015 09:14


A geopolitical round up: last week of Nov 2015
by mAnasa-taraMgiNI
Many turns of the sun ago, when we were still a kid in school, we had some classmates who had an unbridled admiration and enthusiasm for the Anglosphere and a rather deep-seated self-identification with it. While their English had little in it to commend itself, they felt more American than Indian. From New York to San Francisco they would know of all places great and small in the leader nation of the Anglosphere and imagine themselves as part of its existence – living out a vicarious American life via the medium of movies, cartoons, picture-books, and dime novels. We, in contrast, held the view that the Anglosphere was to be much feared and excluded from the cultural, politico-theoretical, and self-definitional landscape of the Hindu to the maximum extent possible. While not denying the fact that its language has become the dominant language of expression in the world, we believed it is should seen as a vyāvahārika bhāṣā rather than something more visceral, where one is more at home with Shakespeare or Twain rather than the itihāsa-purāṇa.

Some of our classmates came to adopt our views, albeit with a lack of self-study, much like several scientists these days find it expedient to copy our findings and pass them as their own without a deeper understanding. This latter set of classmates needed a strong pole of attraction to counter that of the Anglosphere, which they could not find in the Hindu dharma because of their deracination. Hence, over the matter of an year or two they gravitated towards the Rus. Similar was the situation of udraśmikeśa, that giant among men, who felt torn between his in absentia Americanness and his patriotic urges, which were placed in the Rus rather than his own nation. We had our own soft corner for the Rus because they provided us with unparalleled educational material in the sciences and mathematics, which the Anglosphere intentionally tried to keep out of the Hindu's hands in India by virtue of its exorbitant pricing. But increasingly we realized that the Rus would be defeated by the Anglosphere and there was no point putting our lot with that of the Rus – it could sink us with them. We greatly feared this event because we realized that without the Rus weaponry the Hindus were pretty weak for we were rather incapable of making astra-s, nālikā-s, varma-ratha-s and vimāna-s for ourselves. At the same time, unlike our classmates, we feared that Hindus attaching themselves to the Anglosphere could do them even greater harm. Indeed, it came to pass and the Rus empire collapsed at the end of 1991.

While we survived the collapse of the Rus, we cannot be sure that we are doing too well for we are quite vulnerable to the Anglosphere and the marūnmattas, and they are going to get serious with us quite soon. Because have developed āṇavāstra-s they act as a deterrent for a direct strike on us. However, the ekarākṣasavādin-s have perfected the art of getting us by other means. It is against his background that the fall of the Rus interested us – the same methods which the mleccha-s perfected against the Rus are deployed against us. Seeing the fall of the Rus empire and the sneaking in of Yeltsin, we realized that the mlecchas had put in place long-term measures to completely finish off the Rus and make them geopolitically insignificant. When Putin revived the Rus, some said the Rus had found their feet again. But we felt that Putin might not be able to stem the slide. Rather, he would only incite the western mleccha-s headed by the Anglosphere to deploy the next round of action against the Rus. This indeed came in the form of Georgia and Ukraine. But Putin's resolute action in both places minimized the damage. At least on the Georgian front the Rus seem to be making good advance. But we always suspected that a much older fault-line would be revived.

Rolling back the reel of history we may place ourselves in the 1800s. The English were at the height of their power. In 1814 they had burned down Washington DC sending the message to their American cousins as to who was the boss in the Anglosphere. In 1815 the English lead a mleccha alliance to rout the French and interred Napoleon in an island in the middle of the Atlantic. Between 1818-1821 they completed the conquest of India. Flushed with triumph they played their age old card of the śava-marūnmattābhisaṃdhi, which they had been doing from the days of Suleyman kānūni the Osman Sultan or Moulay Ismail the Bloodthirsty of Morocco. Now the English used the Osman Turks as a front end to limit Rus westward ambitions. As the Rus smashed the Turk navy at Sinop the English entered the war together with the French on the side of the Mohammedan Khalifa to attack the Rus. Several Rus towns in Crimea were taken by the English and French by the end of the war in 1856 despite strong action of the Rus generals. The Rus even eventually lost Russian America (Alaska) because they feared its conquest by the English in the aftermath of this war. However, the notable point in the war was that in total France lost much more men than the English and Austria also suffered major losses from the war despite its marginal involvement. This is something the Anglosphere perfected – their enthusiatic allies end up losing much more than themselves in any conflict which Anglosphere engineers. It also illustrated how the Anglosphere in particular and more generally the western mleccha-s could effectively use the marūnmatta-s to multiply the force against their rivals (Just as in India both the French and the English tried to use the Mohammedans as a glove to punch the Hindus). Reeling forward we come to 1939 when the wily English, who had built up Poland into considering itself bigger than its real strength, nudged Germany into war on the continent. The French hoped that the Turks might turn against Germany. Hence, they let things slide when the Turks held a false referendum in the French-controlled Hatay province of Syria and annexed it. Since then it has been an integral part of Turkey though claimed by Syria.

Against this backdrop we come to the current era. Seeing their action against the Rus as being inconclusive in Georgia and Ukraine due to Putin's resolute action, the Anglosphere decided to up the ante. They had earlier facilitated the rise of the new Islamic Khalifa and other al Qaeda affiliates in Syria to overthrow al Assad probably to help their ally and civilizational guide the agravātula-s, and their dear friends from the hellhole of Saud. They hoped that the Rus fearing the loss of Syria, their conduit to West Asia, would intervene. Their objective was to catch the Rus in a quagmire with the marūnmatta-s and destroy them, even as they had done in the Afghan war. The Rus indeed responded and their swift action seemed to put both the Khalifa and other Mohammedan terrorists backed by the Anglosphere on the retreat. But the Anglosphere aided by the agravātula-s kept backing them hoping to make it hot for the Rus. First, we cannot put it above the Anglosphere that their devices ultimately helped the Khalifa's forces to knock the Rus passenger jet out of the sky – it is interesting that they announced that the Khalifa had knocked out the Rus airplane even before the Rus themselves. Seeing that this was only increasing the Rus resolution to knock the wind out of the marūnmatta-s, they brought to play the Crimean war game yet again. Using Turkey as the front end they delivered a humiliating punch to the Rus by having the Turks down their Su-24 followed by jihād and A-O-A-yelling ghāzīs performing qatl of the Rus airmen. This was immediately followed by a downing of one of the Rus rescue helicopters with the help of their Turkoman terrorist allies and the killing of one more of their soldiers. This attack on the Rus was followed by the Anglosphere along with their vassals (the NATO) firmly backing the Turks against the Rus even as in the Crimean war. To add insult to injury, even as the Anglosphere and its vassals do to us when we are episodically slapped by the Mohammedans, they asked the Rus to show restraint. Thus, if Rus has to save face it will have to be able to fight the Anglosphere with its vassals. With this the Anglosphere has pulled off a big one against the Rus. We suspect that this move could well be the turning where the Rus are drawn into what the Anglosphere has been waiting for all this time – a situation where they could use marūnmatta-s and assorted vassals as a glove to punch the Rus into oblivion. Would this be the outcome? We feel this time it might not be so straightforward. Nor are things going to be easy for the Rus for they have not really proven themselves in offensive wars. The experiences of Napoleonic France and Nazi Germany have taught the Anglosphere that it is unwise to pursue to Rus into their backyard but drawing them into a distant conflict especially in the west Asian quarter could still prove a useful strategy to defeat them.

Why should we be bothered about all this? Let us not fool ourselves: the Anglosphere is the primary obstacle for the existence of an independent, powerful Hindu state. First and foremost, they have installed Mohammedan gloves in the form of the terrorist states of Pakistan and Bangladesh in the subcontinent to be used while punching us. Second, they send out and support kravyasādhaka-s to undermine Hindus within the boundaries of residual India. Third, they export bad ideas which befool Hindus and foment trouble in the India state via their first responders. Some of these are methods that they have perfected against the Rus in some form. It should be kept in mind that this is all just the beginning. The torrid time they are giving the Lāṭeśvara's government is part of the Anglosphere's action to prevent even a quarter resolute government from taking root in India. What they want is a mūḍha, like the substance-addled Rahula Mlecchikāputra, who cancontinue the tradition of the Indian Yeltsin, earlier installed in the form of the bald Sikh. We strongly suspect that in the coming days we will see the marūnmatta-s being deployed against against India. In the future if the Hindus perchance grew a spine and decided to put ekarākṣasavādin-s in place in Bhārata then we will have the Anglosphere come to their aid even as they are now standing behind Turkey.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Satya_anveshi » 27 Nov 2015 00:33

^^Good dharmik lapeto!!

During this window of 2016-2022, I have no doubt in my mind that having Hemachandra Vikramaditya in Delhi is unacceptable for Mleccha santaan and if care is not taken, we will yet again fall into centuries of rut.

The most horrible mistake Indians can make is to assume that this war will not affect us. It is absolutely coming to us whether we want it or not/ like it or not. It will come at a time when others need it and they will be better prepared for it. We will be caught off guard.

Take measures NOW so that eventually is prevented. It is about time the gloves need to come out domestically, the said Vikramaditya cut down foreign travel and even limit exposure domestically. Fervently carry out swacha bharat campaign on security front first.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Satya_anveshi » 27 Nov 2015 05:10

x posting from other thread:
Satya_anveshi wrote:Other reason for making Indian pests take back seat in ISIS coverage could be that their time has not come yet. After this training in desert, they will be let loose in India to kill scores of innocent people and suddenly they will become best fighters on the planet with 24/7 coverage on presstitute media of India.

We will have to deal with "intolerant" comments from rich/well off but traitor shitizens of a particular religion on the one side and rabid jihadi violence from lower classes on the other.

A better plan to deal with this is to force better coverage of terrorist actions in India 24/7 (which is deliberately not covered), ensuring everyone from the intelligentsia come out against it (without equivocation and without references to saffron colors ), name and shame people for supporting terrorist action of west asian terrorists. If need be kill most rabid ones in "encounters" who can potentially cause much greater mayhem.

Afghanistan and Pakistan are already in their control.

It is the Desh and Bangladesh that they want to see convert into Daesh and BanglaDaesh.

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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby svenkat » 27 Nov 2015 08:03

http://thewire.in/2015/11/22/india-will-not-become-a-great-power-by-loudly-proclaiming-its-intentions-16049/

Shivshankar Menon was India’s National Security Adviser from January 2010 to May 2014.


Instead, she will be a great power through building her own strength and capabilities and continuing to show wisdom and good sense in her choice of engagements abroad


In the limited space I have, I would rather focus on what the author says about India as a great power. There are two main aspects to this. One is what is a great power. The other is why and how India should become one.

What a great power does – and doesn’t do

Bharat Karnad defines what separates a great power from others thus:

“With a modicum of economic strength, and natural attributes of size, population and location apart, what separates great powers and would be great powers from the rest are a driving vision, an outward thrusting nature backed by strong conviction and sense of national destiny and matching purpose, an inclination to establish distant presence and define national interests within the widest possible geographic ambit, the confidence to protect and further those interests with proactive foreign and military policies, and the willingness to use coercion and force in support of national interests complemented by imaginative projection and use of both soft power and hard power to expansively mark its presence in the external realm.”

And yet, has it really been so in history? I do not think so. This is a description of how empires or hegemons behave as they wane: of the British Empire at the end of the 19th century and after the Boer War, of the US since its moment of unmatched preponderance just after World War II, of Rome after Marcus Aurelius, of the Qing after Qian Long, and so on. And frankly speaking, what happened in history when they did adopt such policies? Did they arrest or significantly postpone their decline? The record is mixed. The most successful at managing decline were the British. Others who followed the kind of assertive policies that Karnad advocates before they had built the power base to sustain it saw their relative position decline rapidly. And some saw calamity – as did Wilhelmine Germany and militarist Japan, which chose to stress adventurist power projection and said so.

Peter Gordon has noted how “modelling all countries and peoples as if they were America-in-waiting has led to any number of false predictions and ineffective and misguided policies.”

Where does India stand on the historical curve of power? She is still rising, putting in place the sinews of power and accumulating it. She is certainly not in the ranks of the declining or mature great powers who have followed the assertive policies Karnad urges.

During the period of their rise, the great powers went through long extended debates on their role abroad, avoided external entanglements where possible, concentrated on building up their internal strength, and projected/cultivated the myth that they acted abroad only reluctantly or for moral reasons. The US invoked freedom and human rights, but intervened in Europe in the two World Wars only after the old established powers had knocked each other out. The British even claimed to have acquired two empires in a fit of absent mindedness! None of them declared their purpose and goals in the terms that Karnad uses. Deng Xiaoping’s 24 character strategy of keeping one’s head down etc. sums up the approach adopted by successful rising powers through history.

The reason for this is simple. Existing power holders do not share power easily or unless they are forced to by external circumstance and shifts in the balance of power. It is a declared goal of US policy to prevent the emergence of peer competitors in the world. And yet the paradox of power is that precisely those balance of power strategies that Henry Kissinger so assiduously learnt from Metternich and Bismarck have enabled the rise of China to a position where she can actually consider herself a strategic competitor of the US, despite their economic interdependence.

Should India therefore adopt Bharat’s prescriptions? Certainly not as declared policy.

What India has been doing

As for his detailed policy recommendations, some of the more eye-catching ones are likely to be controversial and seem unlikely to be adopted, while others are actually part of the government of India’s practice though not presented in the same fashion as Karnad does for their effect on China.

More assertive ones – like military bases abroad, providing security in Central Asia and Antarctica, thermonuclear testing and force projection – sit ill together with his assertions about the hollowness of Indian military power and the defence procurement system, and are subject to divided opinion among our own forces, as he acknowledges in the book.

The book recommends that India declare an Asian or Indian Monroe Doctrine. An Asian ‘Monroe Doctrine’ of sorts was suggested at last year’s CICA Summit in Shanghai by the Chinese president when he spoke of “Asia for the Asians”. The idea sank without a public trace. No other Asian government has picked it up. Instead, their actions since have consolidated their considerable external balancing to China’s rise – witness the India-US Joint Vision Statement on Asia-Pacific Security in January 2015, the Japanese Diet passing laws permitting the deployment of Japanese forces abroad this month, the increasing defence and security ties among countries on China’s periphery, and other developments.

As for the book’s other prescriptions, it is hard to see how some differ from the practice (not the rhetoric) of successive governments of India. For instance, he speaks of the need to make the extra effort to involve Pakistan in our regional integration. That is precisely what the previous government did, when it came closer than ever before to neutralising the issues that divide us while opening up economic and other links with Pakistan. That the effort did not succeed was due to internal developments in Pakistan, not for want of trying here. Karnad is right in saying that our primary strategic focus should be China, not Pakistan.

Without entering into a polemic, it was precisely the period of the UPA, which the author decries as a lost decade, when India shifted strategic focus from Pakistan to China, when India’s nuclear weapons programme and deterrence were fully operationalised, when India accumulated economic power at an unprecedented rate with GDP growth rates unmatched by any other Indian government/decade, when the government decided to raise the mountain strike corps which Bharat wants more of and strengthened the posture along the China border, and so on. The verdict on this period’s work will come when India finds that she needs to turn to her economic sinews to support and sustain her military and political quest as a great power.

I do believe that “speak softly and carry a big stick” is likely to be a more productive policy to deal with the consequences of China’s rise and the other changes we see around us. What this book seems to suggest is to “shout loudly and brandish whatever stick you have, whether big or not”! The chapter on the infirmities and strengths of the armed forces suggest that Karnad thinks we have a pretty weak or useless stick. Frankly, the best judges of the size and quality of the stick are the professionals themselves.

What India must do next

I am convinced that India will be a great power if she continues on her present course. This will not be through her soft power. Here Bharat Karnad is right, though he sets up a straw man – saying that there are those in the establishment who think so. I have never heard anyone responsible saying so or professing this peculiar belief. Nor will it be by others giving great power status to India, through some mysterious process of entitlement or accretion. Nor will it be through a variant of Bismarckian policy, which – despite all of A.J.P. Taylor’s and Henry Kissinger’s efforts to convince us otherwise – was a much simpler task than that facing Indian policy makers. (Bismarck had to deal with one continental system, which by its nature was a zero sum game. We have to deal with a complex continental system containing the rise of China, and simultaneously with an equally complex maritime system which is a positive sum game.) Instead, I believe that India will be a great power through building her own strength and capabilities and continuing to show wisdom and good sense in her choice of engagements abroad.


Why am I sure that India will be a great power, despite all the limitations that Bharat Karnad mentions in his book? Because it is in India’s interest to be a great power. And this brings us to the purpose of power. Why should we want to be a great power? Theoretically it could be argued that like post-war Japan until recently, or Australia and Canada, we should be satisfied with concentrating on our own economic development and leave security to others. India cannot accept that for a simple reason. India, as Karnad says rightly, cannot rely on others for its security. Its interests are unique, whether economic, political or security – a function of its unique history, geography and culture. If we wish to abolish mass poverty, hunger, illiteracy, and disease and modernise our country, (or, as Gandhiji said so much more elegantly, “wipe the tear from the eye of every Indian”,) we can only do so by becoming a great power, with the ability to shape the international system and environment to our purposes. India is and has been an anti-status quo power, seeking to revise and reform the international order since Nehru’s day. That we have not succeeded is evident. That we need to be a great power if we want to have a chance of succeeding is also apparent.

There is also a chapter on what sort of power India should be which bears reading. This is something on which there can be and are legitimate differences among Indians. But I agree with Karnad that we are not clear yet in India about this concept. To me, the idea of a “responsible power” is a red herring. It is only a way existing power holders use to encourage conformity with their wishes and preferences. If you conform, you are labelled “responsible”, if not you are “irresponsible” or a “rogue”. We should worry less about the labels and the attempts by the world to fete us as a great power, and more about our own accretion of hard power and influence.


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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Manny » 28 Nov 2015 07:06

Quote from a Patriot of India: Sofiya: Which obviously pisses off the anti Hindu bigots of MCC (Madras Christian college).. This keeps getting deleted by the Anti Hindu Jesus freaks of MCC.

Not sure if you guys have seen this...Its all over Facebook...

She made a post on FB which went Virul and then it got picked up by Huffington Post. A Lament from a patriotic Indian Muslims.. This obviously burns and chaffs the butt of the Jesus freaks of India.

My Husband And I Are Thriving Muslim Professionals In India. We Have Only Felt Acceptance

http://www.huffingtonpost.in/dr-sofia-r ... 1448615082

And then she posted this. She was accused of being a Hindu pretending to be a Muslims..then one of her batch mate came to FB and vouched for her... The evangelical Jesus nutjobs of MCC seem to be so flustered at this post...


On November 26th when I posted the article, which has gone viral, not even in my wildest dreams, I had imagined that it would touch the hearts of thousands of people. Within no time, it became so widespread that I was almost in a daze that day. For me, it was another write up, and I still find it so ordinary because all that it details is our ordinary life experiences like other people!! Normally, one would expect articles which highlight victimization and negativity to go viral because human nature now adays is such that we like to focus more on the wrong rather than the good in society and so I had expected it to reach only my regular friends and well wishers. By the end of the day, I started to get calls from my ex colleagues who are not on Facebook but had read the article on WhatsApp. It has been published by various online magazines and has all ready been translated in Kannada also. I have decided to now replicate in Hindi as well.
While many abuses and negative reactions have come, there are many more responses of appreciation and gratitude as well, and this is what makes the difference to me. I hold no grudges against those who have abused me and many even said that I am doing this for publicity! If speaking in support for nation and my people is for publicity, then I have nothing more to say to such people. Let me tell you all, that my clinic is doing extemely well and even though it was opened only last year, it is being rated as one of the best in Bangalore. Besides, I work not for money or fame but because it's my passion. I am more than happy in what I earn and always feel ever so grateful to God for the blessings.
Thank you from the depth of my heart to everyone, both who appreciated and those who abused as well because of all of you, this write up will now reach people globally as it has been published by Huffington Post. Kudos to the power of social media, which is controlled by ordinary people like us and not by paid media. I wanted to highlight that Muslims are doing fine and are not being suppressed, which has been falsely propagated by main stream media and prominent personalities, and so my dream has come true. This is really nothing short of a dream, because an ordinary write up like this one reaching the masses is miraculous and the credit goes to all of you! At the end of the day, all that we want is peace and harmony in our country; and appreciation for eachother. That's what humanity is all about.

shiv
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 28 Nov 2015 20:40


shiv
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 28 Nov 2015 20:44

Manny wrote:Quote from a Patriot of India: Sofiya: Which obviously pisses off the anti Hindu bigots of MCC (Madras Christian college).. This keeps getting deleted by the Anti Hindu Jesus freaks of MCC.

Not sure if you guys have seen this...Its all over Facebook...

She made a post on FB which went Virul and then it got picked up by Huffington Post. A Lament from a patriotic Indian Muslims.. This obviously burns and chaffs the butt of the Jesus freaks of India.

My Husband And I Are Thriving Muslim Professionals In India. We Have Only Felt Acceptance

http://www.huffingtonpost.in/dr-sofia-r ... 1448615082


Another
Reproducing a piece written by an anguished citizen of India. Must read

Amidst a fake atmosphere of Intolerance being created in India, in the last 1 month, I owe my version of what I, a Muslim lady, living and working in India feel like. This has been due from me since sometime. Now, I feel the water has gone above the head and I too need to share my views. So, here it is.

I am a Muslim lady, a practicing dermatologist by profession and I run my own high- end laser skin clinic, in Bangalore. I was brought up in Kuwait and at the age of 18, came to India to pursue medical education. I decided to stay back in India while almost all my friends left India for greener pastures. Not even once did I consider that being a Muslim could create a problem for me, as my sense of nationalism held me back to my roots and so here I am, serving my country since the last 20 years.

I studied in Manipal, Karnataka. I lived alone like all students do. While I was in college, all my professors were Hindus and almost all the people who I would interact with were Hindus as well. There is not a single incident when anyone showed partiality towards me based on my gender or religion. Every single one of them was kind and in fact sometimes, I felt as though they made an extra effort to make feel like I was one of them. I am ever so grateful to all of them for making my life in Manipal as comfortable as it could get.

After leaving Manipal, I relocated to Bangalore with my husband. By then I had been married and so we decided to make our life in Bangalore. There is a reason, why we chose Bangalore and here is where I will talk about my husband. He is a Muslim too, with a very typical first name, Iqbal. He is an aerospace engineer with MTech from IIT-Chennai and PhD from Germany. His profession takes him to the most highly secured organizations of India, like DRDO, NAL, HAL, GTRE, ISRO, IISc, BHEL; you name it and be assured that he has visited all of them without any hassles. Not even once he has been stripped off or asked for special security clearance or any such bias has been shown towards him. And NO, things have not changed even after Modi gov came into power. Things are in fact more disciplined and streamlined even at government organizations, from what I hear from my husband. As a matter of fact, Iqbal has been completely stripped each time he traveled to US and was under secret surveillance while he was doing his PhD in Germany, after the 9/11 attacks on US. We literally received a letter from the German government that he has been cleared and is not anymore under suspicion. Talk about Muslim paranoia! Its very understandable too due to the current situations in the world. My husband is highly respected and loved by the people he works with, and all of them happen to be Hindus. None of this has changed even in recent times, so Intolerance is just a word for us on a practical basis.

I opened my clinic last year, just before Modi gov came into power. I am a law-abiding citizen and I file my taxes like service tax on a monthly basis. I have never indulged in any activities, which could put me into any kind of trouble. I am comfortably running my clinic, which is doing very well, thanks to all my patients and clients, who all happen to be Hindus. A handful of my patients are from other communities. My entire staff is Hindu, and believe me when I say that they take better care of my clinic than I could any day! I interact with bankers, government officers and with so many people on a daily basis. Not even once in the last 20 years, did I have the need to even think of leaving India! My entire family lives abroad and all that I need to do is just decide that I don’t want to stay here. I have open offers of opening clinic in Kuwait, which would fetch me huge amount of revenue and yet why should I stay in India, if I am not happy and if I am facing any kind of bias?

In Kuwait, we are considered as NOBODY. Yes, despite being in Kuwait for the last 40 years or so, my family is still considered as expatriates, with no rights. We need to renew our resident permit periodically and the laws there constantly keep changing, making the life of expatriates only harder. We have to strictly comply with their rules and laws, which is fine but we are openly discriminated. They consider Asians as third grade people, while giving preference to their citizens, Arabs and Whites. We are not unhappy there but we have no sense of belonging either. At least, I never had and never have even when I visit Kuwait now. We are Muslims in a Muslim country, and yet we are considered as Indians with no special regards. I figured long back ago, that India is the only country, where I will have a sense of belonging. You are an Indian-American in US, Indian-Canadian in Canada, Indian-British in UK and so on but only in India you are an Indian. Period. Rest can say whatever they want and defend their choices but this is a fact. You can only feel at home, in your own home. I have lived in different places and everywhere I stand out but in India. No body in India asks me, ‘Are you an Indian?’, and this is what makes all the difference.

So, what are these celebrities ranting about? An ordinary citizen like my husband and I are not facing any such issues, then what have they faced? Why is Amir Khan’s wife, Kiran Rao feeling so afraid? They are prominent people, living in posh localities, their children study in the best of schools and they have personal security escorting them at all times. I travel alone everyday and yet don’t feel afraid. I want to know as a responsible citizen, from Amir Khan and Shahrukh Khan as well, why did they make such irresponsible statements and spoil the image of the 13 crores of Muslims in India? Who the hell are they to make public statements based on their personal perception? Who gave them the liberty to tarnish the image of my country on an International level, that Muslims are not safe in India? How dare Pakistan invites them to stay in Pakistan? I feel hurt when I read the statements of my Hindu friends on Muslims. I feel afraid that they are being pushed to the limit and the tolerance and acceptance that I have enjoyed all these years, might just vanish! I feel afraid that my own people might shun me and I may get alienated in my own country, because of a handful of ungrateful bunch of fools! How long can I expect majority of Hindus to tolerate this nuisance? It’s high time that Muslims understand the value of the freedom and acceptance that we enjoy in India and if not, I pray that my Hindu fellow citizens continue to keep their patience.

- Sofiya Rangwala

Prem
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 30 Nov 2015 08:14

Has any BRfite read this Book?
The Krishna Key by Ashwin Sanghi


ramana
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 30 Nov 2015 09:30

English media in India starts everyday with an outrage. In interests of civility a few of them need to be shut down.
Timesnow, CNN-IBN.

NDTV should be shut down for criminal fraud.

chetak
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby chetak » 30 Nov 2015 09:38

ramana wrote:English media in India starts everyday with an outrage. In interests of civility a few of them need to be shut down.
Timesnow, CNN-IBN.

NDTV should be shut down for criminal fraud.



everyone knows exactly what needs to be done but when exactly is it actually going to be done??

not taking visible action means that Modi is also beginning perceived as being tarred with the same corrupt brush.

action not only needs to be taken but also seen to be taken.

JE Menon
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Re: Indian Interests (09-08-2014)

Postby JE Menon » 30 Nov 2015 10:47

Isn't NDTV being chargesheeted?

For the rest, they have to break the law first. Or they have to be changed. This does not happen after 60 years of control and a particular ideological line being promoted, in a period of 60 months. And who will replace these people. A new ecosystem of journalists, anchors, etc... have to emerge. It takes time. When you have power, patience is also important. Understand what kind of India you want to build, and then build it by taking as many people along as you can. Don't let your pet preferences come in the way. This is not going to be easy, and a simple matter of flicking a switch here and there.


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