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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby khan » 16 Jul 2017 06:32

Bade wrote:The Chinese got smart sensing this agreement with Bhutan, and started moving troops into the area close to the Doka La pass nearer the tri-junction, which was not demarcated but Bhutanese territory. This is when India moved in troops to object to it. Maybe even the Bhutanese objected as they knew India would not agree with it.

The Chinese got greedy and wanted to grab all they could but it all got out. If they had just limited themselves to the Doklam plateau on the east side of the Chumbi valley, then perhaps India would have had to keep quiet following a settlement between China and Bhutan. But it is too late now for that due to their greed. Their salami slicing got bigger for their own good.


I don't think there was any subtlety here.

I think China & Bhutan made a deal India didn't like and India strolled in.

Now to maintain their deal and more importantly - their prestige China need to put up or shut up and lose face.

And the part about not using each other's territory for the detriment of the other in the "friendship" treaty, gives India the Diplomatic cover to do this.

China needs to put up and escalate in an area where they are weak - or lose face with all their neighbors.

The above obviously holds if my original theory holds water.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 16 Jul 2017 06:39

Whodafuk is P.Stobdan?

How does he know how all Bhutanese feel.

Someone fire up Google earth and look at Doklam. In fact I might just make another video - but I am a little surprised at what I have seen so far.

You can imagine the tri-junction between India, Bhutan and Tibet as a cake with a cherry on top. The cherry is Dokla or Doklam. But the cherry is off center. If the cake is cut into exactly 3 pieces, the cherry falls at the apex (sharp tip) of the Bhutan slice of cake.

If you look closely at the plateau it looks like a large field - maybe 5-6 km in all directions sitting 4100 meters high. If you walk towards Tibet - you find the slope going down down down over wooded countryside into Tibet towards a river valley

If you walk towards Bhutan - you find the slope going down down down over wooded countryside into Bhutan towards a river valley

If you walk towards Sikkim - you find the slope going down down down into Sikkim towards a river valley

There are plenty of paths on the Indian side leading up to the border, but not across the border. Indian troops in the area have remained within the designated border. It is the Bhutan side that surprises me. I have found no paths yet to Dokala from Bhutan. Looks like they did not go there much.

It is only the Chinese who have done the bench-odd-giri of having a winding path crossing into Bhutan. Looking at 2015 pictures on GE you find plenty of Indian army infra on the Indian side. As of 2015 there were only paths on the China side entering Bhutan. No built up infrastructure. need to see 2017 images. I thought I saw 2017 images on Bing. Still could not make out much. But it is difficult to manipulate Bing - maybe because I use a non Microsoft system.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 16 Jul 2017 06:58

If one follows the river valley south to Bhutan from Yadong, it is headed straight to India across Bhutan. That is where the Chinese are headed.

It is time to ask Bhutan to give us two districts around the tri-junction point till the Doklam plateau ( on the east side of Chumbi valley) which is shown as disputed between China and Bhutan in google maps with red boundary markers. This area may not be strategic to India, unless India wants to take over the entire valley near sikkim borders. Bhutan could settle that with China and get back their northern areas ceded to China voluntarily :-)

And India gets to keep the southern side of the tri-junction and valley to stop any further Chinese advance south...they have no business to be in Yadong at all, still.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 16 Jul 2017 07:05

May I once again try and move beyond clichés and extrapolate? We see a lot of references on BRF and in the media about "losing face". If X happens - China will lose face. So what happens if someone loses face?

A lot depends on whether that person can do anything about it or not. If a Paki father finds hos daughter dating a kafir he loses face. Some may swallow their pride and realize that honour killing is not possible in the country where they live. Others may score a self goal by doing an honour killing.

So it is possible to lose face, swallow one's pride and try not to attract attention to one's shame. If the Chinese want conflict to assuage their wounded pride they need to understand that they will get conflict and some single sons of Han parents are going to die on a high plateau 3000 km away. Or else they can swallow their pride...

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sanjaykumar » 16 Jul 2017 07:09

You fools! Don't you realize what it means if the Chinese remain? Don't you remember your history? The last time the Chinese came, they stayed a thousand years. The French are foreigners. They are weak. Colonialism is dying. The white man is finished in Asia. But if the Chinese stay now, they will never go. As for me, I prefer to sniff French shit for five years than to eat Chinese shit for the rest of my life.

Geopolitics encapsulated in the vulgarity of a general. Priceless.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby tandav » 16 Jul 2017 07:13

Tibet is fast becoming a disputed territory due to recent developments. In the interest of peace and India's historical role on Tibet since historically Indians had visa free access to all of Tibet and of course keeping in mind China's acceptance of being Tibet's spiritual vassal, a grand bargain can be made to convert Tibet into a India-China peace park after demilitarizing Tibet. The natural border of India and Tibet is not the high mountain ranges but as per international norms is typically a river valley. So 1) India and Tibet can formalize the Brahmaputra valley as the soft border and China and Tibet can perhaps consider the Yangste River valley as soft border.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 16 Jul 2017 07:16

As I said much earlier, if India does not take control of the valley to the south of the tri-junction point, it will become disastrous in the long run. The fight is for the valley from the Chinese point of view, the ridges are just temporary points to capture and claim rights further downstream later.

They have already come one extra ridge line south of Yadong that they need, to even secure that outpost.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby khan » 16 Jul 2017 07:52

If China made a backroom deal with Bhutan, the main country China needs to "save face" with is Bhutan.

Obviously, everyone else in the world is watching and it China does back down, they might view it as a blueprint to resist Chinese imperalism.

If the speculated deal falls through, until something changes fundamentally in the India-China-Bhutan power equation, there is no reason any other deal made with China is worth anything more than toilet paper.

But I don't think China wants to shed any blood over Dhoklam, but H&D must be preserved - hence the "monkey trap".

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 16 Jul 2017 08:02

If Bhutan has tried to stab us in the back then should we not do the needful and remove the treacherous rulers from power. May be this is what China is fearing now . After things calm down on "Goklam" , India will adopt Bhutan as part of State family and PRC loss sealed till Nehru take rebirth. Xi xan consider this pay back for uncouth behavior by PLA when he was visiting India.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby hanumadu » 16 Jul 2017 08:32

Wiki on Bhutan
Government revenues total $407.1 million, though expenditures amount to $614 million. 25 percent of the budget expenditure, however, is financed by India's Ministry of External Affairs.


Bhutan's main export partner is India, accounting for 58.6 percent of its export goods. Hong Kong (30.1 percent) and Bangladesh (7.3 percent) are the other two top export partners.


Bhutan's largest export is hydroelectricity. As of 2015, it generates 5,000 MW of hydropower from Himalayan river valleys. The country has a potential to generate 30,000 MW of hydropower. Power is supplied to various states in India.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 16 Jul 2017 08:46

Bhutan exists as an independent state only because India respects that.

If you look closely at the border near Dokala and the plateau you find that the Indian Army has not been sitting with thumb in Musharraf. We have a robust presence in the area. But we have not wandered into Bhutan despite Bhutan having no defences. It is the Chinese who have wandered into Bhutan and caught with their pants down.

When someone looks down at you with contempt as the Chinese do at Indians - they only way forward is to get into a fight and give them a bloody nose.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sanjaykumar » 16 Jul 2017 08:59

The contempt is ersatz and carefully cultivated. They know the meaning of elections and a free press or a free judiciary. These are the ideas that will eventually contaminate and cause the dissolution of the empire.

There is no defence. The USSR went the same way. In 40 years the Soviets had led the way in several fields most famously space (The road to the stars is open- Korolev 1957). Yet the Soviets were not immune when the time came. In 70 years China has innovated nothing. What would make them believe they are not living on borrowed time.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SriKumar » 16 Jul 2017 09:00

I am not so sure that Bhutan is doing something on the side with the Chinese. Their ambassador in India clearly gave a statement (The Hindu reported it) a few weeks ago that they had taken issue with the recent Chinese movements and had communicated their concerns to them. I doubt that Bhutanese ambassador would make such a statement from Indian soil if their interests/loyalties lie elsewhere.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... RBw6H.html

As far as India is concerned, IMHO it is India that really has no choice here. The only 'choice' is to confront/fight now or fight a bigger problem later. The last 10-20 years have shown what the Chinese do at the border, the moves are boring in their predictability- declare a territory disputed, a few years later build some roads in said disputed territory, bring/deploy troops and put military pressure to yield. And that movie has played enough times for people (in India or Bhutan but especially India) to know what's coming. If they dont deal with a smallish Chinese presence in Chumbi valley today, in 5 years, IA will be dealing with a brigade or worse right in the chicken neck area.

Recall that about 3-4 years ago, the Chinese started making noises about Arunachal being disputed- that Tawang was where an earlier Dalai Lama was born etc. etc. (Arunachalis not requiring a visa etc.) Until a few years ago, google had it as a solid line as the border and now it is dotted. Guess what will happen in a few years from now in that area.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 16 Jul 2017 09:17

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/china ... 170708.htm
China: 5. India: 1
July 08, 2017 12:54 IST
'The Chinese have taken to telling their Indian interlocutors to bear in mind the 5:1 disparity in the sizes of the two economies.'
'The message from Beijing, says T N Ninan, is clear: Acknowledge superior Chinese power, and behave accordingly.'
The principal international challenge for India in the coming years has to be coping with China's rise and growing assertiveness.
Beijing's reminder of this country's 1962 military debacle is an over-the-top response to a relatively minor Sikkim border stand-off, quite apart from it failing to recognise India's current military capabilities.
But if we are not tone deaf we should take note of the increasingly arrogant nature of China's public protests which matches the message in private conversations.
The Chinese have taken to telling their Indian interlocutors to bear in mind the 5:1 disparity in the sizes of the two economies.
The message is clear: India should acknowledge superior Chinese power, and behave accordingly.
India has refused so far to overtly acknowledge any power imbalance, or it would not have stayed away from the Belt and Road conference recently.
......

Using the same logic, China should never started the 1962 conflict as India-China were equal economically. It should not have come to North Korea's aid in 1950, as the USA was far ahead militarily or economically. I wish they would come up with better logic. But I do expect a number of Indian press to side with China's logic because: naach meri bulbul ke paisa milega-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6JlLpmncz8
Gautam

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Guddu » 16 Jul 2017 09:23

@SriKumar +1000, we all know what needs to be done.
However, does anybody think that India will initiate hostilities ?. IMHO, odds of India initiating hostilities, 10 %, odds of cheeni initiating hostilities 40 %, 50 %chance of a diplomatic solution. What do others think on the likelihood of conflict and who will fire the first bullet.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby darshhan » 16 Jul 2017 09:26

g.sarkar wrote:
http://www.rediff.com/news/column/china ... 170708.htm
China: 5. India: 1
July 08, 2017 12:54 IST
'The Chinese have taken to telling their Indian interlocutors to bear in mind the 5:1 disparity in the sizes of the two economies.'
'The message from Beijing, says T N Ninan, is clear: Acknowledge superior Chinese power, and behave accordingly.'
The principal international challenge for India in the coming years has to be coping with China's rise and growing assertiveness.
Beijing's reminder of this country's 1962 military debacle is an over-the-top response to a relatively minor Sikkim border stand-off, quite apart from it failing to recognise India's current military capabilities.
But if we are not tone deaf we should take note of the increasingly arrogant nature of China's public protests which matches the message in private conversations.
The Chinese have taken to telling their Indian interlocutors to bear in mind the 5:1 disparity in the sizes of the two economies.
The message is clear: India should acknowledge superior Chinese power, and behave accordingly.
India has refused so far to overtly acknowledge any power imbalance, or it would not have stayed away from the Belt and Road conference recently.
......

Using the same logic, China should never started the 1962 conflict as India-China were equal economically. It should not have come to North Korea's aid in 1950, as the USA was far ahead militarily or economically. I wish they would come up with better logic. But I do expect a number of Indian press to side with China's logic because: naach meri bulbul ke paisa milega-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6JlLpmncz8
Gautam


Actually this is India's advantage. The hans have much more to lose now. They are no warriors not anymore. They are traders. A full fledged war today will definitely favour India. Most probably sections in PLA know this.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Rudradev » 16 Jul 2017 09:27

Ramana,

You had mentioned the idea that Xi was driving the conversion from a Communist to a Nationalist China.

I think it is slightly more complicated. Mao was an imperialist with overtly exceptionalist proclivities... his China would define its role on the world stage in terms of the CCP's unique worldview and nothing else. It could define the rules by which it played, simply through its sheer size and willingness to defy the worldviews of either the Western or the Soviet camps. In sharp contrast to the exceptionalism of Mao (a form of revisionist Nationalism, though cloaked in red garb) Deng Xiaoping set China on the path to becoming a thriving economy through leveraging what was then the globalist order in its embryonic form.

The pendulum swung back and forth afterwards as different successors came to the fore. Jiang Zemin, the key architect of the policy of building up nuclear rogue states like NoKo and Pakistan as proxies via proliferation, was more Maovadi. Others like Hu Jintao were more Dengvadi. Yet none of these leaders had as much direct control of all three axes of the Chinese setup (the Party, the State Council, and the Military) to the extent that Mao used to. Until Xi Jinping.

To my mind Xi is like Napoleon III consolidating power as head of the Second French Empire after the interlude of the Orleans restoration. A man of strong political capability domestically, but more ambition than vision internationally.

Of course Napoleon III's grand ambitions ran headlong into a brick wall when he encountered a rival that would never again allow France to achieve pre-eminence on the European continent: the rising Germany of Otto von Bismarck. The Franco Prussian war furnished a bloody nose that is still in some sense bleeding, and marked the overall decline of France into the second rank of global power until this day.

I think Napoleon Xi has met his Bismarck in Modi. The conflict he wants to provoke is the one that will, directly and indirectly, circumscribe the Chinese footprint in Asia for centuries to come. "G2" as a notion will meet its end in the eastern Himalayas.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 16 Jul 2017 09:36

Guddu wrote:@SriKumar +1000, we all know what needs to be done.
However, does anybody think that India will initiate hostilities ?. IMHO, odds of India initiating hostilities, 10 %, odds of cheeni initiating hostilities 40 %, 50 %chance of a diplomatic solution. What do others think on the likelihood of conflict and who will fire the first bullet.

Chin moved into the area, India reacted and stopped this, thereby initiating hostilities. Chin can withdraw, and consequently tell the world that they are just paper tigers and suffer at all future conflicts, or it can use force and take risk of a military loss. India can stay or withdraw after being militarily defeated like in 1962. Or both sides can continue the status quo indefinitely and let things cool down. I do not see too many other alternatives.
Gautam
PS "Actually this is India's advantage. The hans have much more to lose now. They are no warriors not anymore. They are traders. A full fledged war today will definitely favour India. Most probably sections in PLA know this."
Hindus do not fight, 1 pak soldier is worth 10 Indian soldiers. Jews have never fought and went into the gas chambers without protest. Germans have become traders. French surrendered to the Germans without a fight in WWII. These are not correct thinking IMHO. One should not underestimate any one. Irrespective of this, I hope the Indian army is pouring in soldiers in the Dhokla area. October is the month.
Last edited by g.sarkar on 16 Jul 2017 10:00, edited 2 times in total.

shiv
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 16 Jul 2017 09:58

Guddu wrote:@SriKumar +1000, we all know what needs to be done.
However, does anybody think that India will initiate hostilities ?. IMHO, odds of India initiating hostilities, 10 %, odds of cheeni initiating hostilities 40 %, 50 %chance of a diplomatic solution. What do others think on the likelihood of conflict and who will fire the first bullet.

There is only one viewpoint IMO
1. China initiated hostilities by building a road in Bhutanese territory.
2. Bhutan is an Indian protectorate and it is our dharma to defend Bhutan
3. We simply stopped Chinese aggression.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DrRatnadip » 16 Jul 2017 10:00

Beijing won't have formal talks with India; stand-off may continue till winter: Chinese expert

BEIJING: Beijing will not agree to formal talks with New Delhi until Indian troops withdraw from the position they are holding at the Doklam plateau on the Sikkim border, a prominent Chinese expert told TOI in an exclusive interview on Saturday.
The border stalemate may continue until the harsh winter sets in the area, he said.
China is trying to send a signal that National Security Adviser Ajit Doval is unlikely to persuade Beijing to begin negotiations without a troop withdrawal from the Indian side during his visit to Beijing later this month.

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/beijing ... 610373.cms

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 16 Jul 2017 10:02

g.sarkar wrote:
http://www.rediff.com/news/column/china ... 170708.htm
China: 5. India: 1
July 08, 2017 12:54 IST
'The Chinese have taken to telling their Indian interlocutors to bear in mind the 5:1 disparity in the sizes of the two economies.'
'The message from Beijing, says T N Ninan, is clear: Acknowledge superior Chinese power, and behave accordingly.'
The principal international challenge for India in the coming years has to be coping with China's rise and growing assertiveness.
Beijing's reminder of this country's 1962 military debacle is an over-the-top response to a relatively minor Sikkim border stand-off, quite apart from it failing to recognise India's current military capabilities.
But if we are not tone deaf we should take note of the increasingly arrogant nature of China's public protests which matches the message in private conversations.
The Chinese have taken to telling their Indian interlocutors to bear in mind the 5:1 disparity in the sizes of the two economies.
The message is clear: India should acknowledge superior Chinese power, and behave accordingly.
India has refused so far to overtly acknowledge any power imbalance, or it would not have stayed away from the Belt and Road conference recently.
......

Using the same logic, China should never started the 1962 conflict as India-China were equal economically. It should not have come to North Korea's aid in 1950, as the USA was far ahead militarily or economically. I wish they would come up with better logic. But I do expect a number of Indian press to side with China's logic because: naach meri bulbul ke paisa milega-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6JlLpmncz8
Gautam

There is a reason I coined the term SLIME. Self Loathing India Media.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Neela » 16 Jul 2017 10:04

Image

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Arjun » 16 Jul 2017 10:06

Guddu wrote:@SriKumar +1000, we all know what needs to be done.
However, does anybody think that India will initiate hostilities ?. IMHO, odds of India initiating hostilities, 10 %, odds of cheeni initiating hostilities 40 %, 50 %chance of a diplomatic solution. What do others think on the likelihood of conflict and who will fire the first bullet.

Odds of India initiating hostilities - 0%.

Odds of Chinda doing so: > 30%. Also odds are high that China will escalate to Kashmir should hostilities break out. Odds of India targeting Tibet and / or CPEC once that happens: 100%.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 16 Jul 2017 10:09

shiv wrote:
Guddu wrote:@SriKumar +1000, we all know what needs to be done.
However, does anybody think that India will initiate hostilities ?. IMHO, odds of India initiating hostilities, 10 %, odds of cheeni initiating hostilities 40 %, 50 %chance of a diplomatic solution. What do others think on the likelihood of conflict and who will fire the first bullet.

There is only one viewpoint IMO
1. China initiated hostilities by building a road in Bhutanese territory.
2. Bhutan is an Indian protectorate and it is our dharma to defend Bhutan
3. We simply stopped Chinese aggression.


+108*786

Only true position for Indians.
In 1962 civilian leadership interfered and panicked leading to the debacle. All troubled started from then. Doklam plateau stand off will take thr wind out of the Chinese dragon gas bag.Vande Mataram

Need to rebut that Ninan fool.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 16 Jul 2017 10:11

Neela wrote:Image



Chinese Ambassador was assessing chances of regime change in India. I would keep.an eye on all those he met mentioned in Coomi Kapoor column.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby vijaykarthik » 16 Jul 2017 10:11

shiv wrote:Finally - a personal note - in the last BRF+DFI meet I had during Aero India - deejay told us a very funny story where a group of Air Force and army personnel went hunting for the wreckage of an aircraft at the border. They wandered into Chinese territory - a fact that was known to the accompanying army men but not to the Vayusena explorers until much later. But what ultimately chased them off was a bear if I recall correctly.


Im not here as often I used to about a year ago. When will the next meet be? I am most motivated to join it. I am based out of Bangalore. And yes, where will I get to know information / discussion about face to face physical (no, not that physical!) meetings happen?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 16 Jul 2017 10:12

ramana wrote:
Neela wrote:Image



Chinese Ambassador was assessing chances of regime change in India. I would keep.an eye on all those he met mentioned in Coomi Kapoor column.

Ramanaji
This is tantamount to a coup. Public must be informed of the Chinese traitorous strategy

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby krisna » 16 Jul 2017 10:15

To folks like Shiv Ramana RD SS etc and others,
why are we not giving importance to ideology like communism.
This is the gorilla hiding in plain sight.

we considered the dynasties of china over centuries talked about expansionist zeals etc etc.

But all were within landlocked island of Chinese influence-- nothing beyond that sphere.

economically china was one of the strongest economies for centuries along with china.

India influenced widely across asia from west to east and greeks etc etc.

what about china except nearby areas.
Heck even UB ancestors :mrgreen: went upto turkey and established their skills.

The imprint of china and east asia is unmistakably Indian dharma etc. with confusican thought etc.


China never attacked India except once over Himalayas into Nepal in around 600AD-- not very well known.

If it was expansion zeal why China never entered India when lot of movements occurred in India(weakened) leading to Islamic invasions and later Christian ones led by European powers.
Actually China overtook India as leading economic power during this period.

------------------------------------------
My impression is communism changed the Chinese leadership into expansionist zeal going into various regions, making enemies of its neighbours by its attitude.

communism is like "my way or highway" ideology. No middle ground as in Indian dharma.
(recall USSR and many others). They export ideologies all over etc.

In fact if Chinese communism falls apart it will be India,s friend or at least be neutral ( will take time to remove communist dirt)


JMTs.
Last edited by krisna on 16 Jul 2017 10:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby krisna » 16 Jul 2017 10:18

ramana wrote:
Neela wrote:Image



Chinese Ambassador was assessing chances of regime change in India. I would keep.an eye on all those he met mentioned in Coomi Kapoor column.



curious all the Indian folks are mentioned are sickulars and anti NaMo.
why did not the ambassador met BJP leaders etc say CMs of various states

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 16 Jul 2017 10:19

Despite his AAP sympathy proclivities, Lt Gen Panag speaks the language of strength and gives a very clear view of reality as held by India and as perceived by China

https://www.newslaundry.com/2017/07/08/ ... kim-bhutan

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 16 Jul 2017 10:21

Chetak, Akshay

Have you guys gone through MHOW?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 16 Jul 2017 10:22

Iyersan wrote:Ramanaji
This is tantamount to a coup. Public must be informed of the Chinese traitorous strategy

This would be a coup only in China. In India we give Z class security to even separatists and will pull along perfectly well.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Guddu » 16 Jul 2017 10:24

Looks like China is going to use the weather as an excuse to withdraw. If this were to happen, will we maintain a presence during winter, or would we too be forced to withdraw.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 16 Jul 2017 10:30

We are there all year round controlling DoKa La and Batang La

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 16 Jul 2017 10:34

Iyersan MAD knows. If a chota muh like us can figure it out they can too as they have the reports.

But need to give long rope. Only 0.5 of the three legged stool is in their hands.
Judiciary, most executive and Rajya Sabha are not.
Add the rascals in.media.

See that moron Ninan article.

Big fear of the 2.5 is President Kovind.

All crisis tempo is to reduce the margin.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby JE Menon » 16 Jul 2017 10:48

Are we doing anything to influence the stability of the Chinese leadership in a positive way? I have a strong feeling that what we are seeing now is a power-play at the top in China. Xi seems to know the truth, but not all the truth. He is not being told, and those who tell him are not being told.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 16 Jul 2017 11:13

His problem no?
Who gives rat behind whether it's Eleven or Thirteen?
Same hot air since Mao.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chetak » 16 Jul 2017 11:34

ramana wrote:Chetak, Akshay

Have you guys gone through MHOW?


not me, saar.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chetak » 16 Jul 2017 11:38

ramana wrote:
Neela wrote:Image



Chinese Ambassador was assessing chances of regime change in India. I would keep.an eye on all those he met mentioned in Coomi Kapoor column.


darjeeling district magistrate??

are the hans hell bent on stoking the nepali separatism?? Is this why darjeeling is burning now??

must admit that I did not see shiv shankar menon playing the role of brutus or more correctly, judas.

This is why the MEA tends to sink any initiative of the GoI.

this is also why Modi has wisely bypassed the whole dumb gravy train riding MEA lot, leaving the naxal pasand lootyens lot upset.

this ministry has had people like kr narayanan, mani shankar aiyar and a whole host of India loathing kattarpanthi commies who were nothing more than parasites on the body politic
Last edited by chetak on 16 Jul 2017 11:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Deans » 16 Jul 2017 11:48

hanumadu wrote:
TIFWIW.
According to this video there is massive unemployment among retired soldiers. Don't they get pension? Only 60 dollars per month according to the video. Also the soldiers undergo training in communist party propaganda in addition to military training and they should spend 30 percent of their time for the communist party propaganda. Some fighting unit it will be.


True. I had argued earlier in this thread that all members in the CPC are not on the same page - many fear being purged by Eleven. Similarly, the army might resent Eleven trying to take control. His opponents may be trying to create a situation where Eleven is publicly embarrassed by having to pull back.

Most Chinese soldiers are conscripts, so apart from a very short tenure in the service, political lectures eat up a lot of their training time.
This was the biggest problem in the Soviet army, which the Russians have since corrected.
There is no experienced NCO/ JCO cadre, who also have terrain experience - unlike IA.


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