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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 16 Jul 2017 15:34

A Government of India servant, like the magistrate of Darjeeling, could not have met the Chinese Ambassador without authorization from GoI.It is against service rules to do so without clearance. I am not even sure if the Chinese ambassador could have travelled to Darjeeling without notifying GoI.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby vijaykarthik » 16 Jul 2017 15:36

Singha wrote:does india have full diplomatic relations with taiwan? I assume our economic ties are very cordial - I am typing this out on a Benq monitor.

also tibet must have a full consulate in delhi with the dalai lama as exiled head of state and india must formally renounce its one-china policy wrt tibet and xinjiang. we should invite the xinjiang uighurs to select a Khalifa from the ranks in turkey or idlib and send him over here with full diplomatic protocol accorded :lol:


Nope, we don't. In fact even Panama went back on the dip link with Taiwan recently (rumors that China bathed them and washed them with cash deals and promise of more coming... ). I think about 20 small / tiny countries have dip reln with Taiwan - a few in Africa, Tuvalu etc etc.

We should do two things - been a strong proponent on them earlier too:

a. Deliberately disintegrate the one China policy. Time we broke it and show Chinas true color to the world - we have a vantage point in both history ad geography (The subcontinent perhaps crept up and hit the Tibetan plate for a reason, eons back). We need to do all the moves to show Chinas double speak and question their deplorable moves and nefarious plans. I think Modi's term is attempting to do a lot of things right. Boy, am I glad its a leader with a pair at the helm and not the Congi types currently at the top. (Tibet will come really handy in achieving. So will arming Vietnam or having a more nuanced strategy in SCS)

b. We need to start treating the near neighbors a lot better. We have doodled for a very long time with some very appealing policies. If anything, Chinese behavior is even worse with their neighbors - we need to keep showing that every time we speak with the near neighbors (think BD and China asking the soft loans to be converted to a higher interest loan). We need to have a more encompassing win-win policy and win back a lot of our neighbors.

We need our strategic depth and also start shaping the media narrative!

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby vijaykarthik » 16 Jul 2017 16:30

SSridhar wrote:Me too. That's not what I said either.

Even the Modi government seems to agree with the assessment of the UPA that this alliance is needed. There is simply no truth that this emerging alliance does not exist. So, there should be a reason why Modi is also persisting, in fact investing more, in this alliance.


Do you think that we will need to be part of the quad even for getting access to logistics support or ISR?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 16 Jul 2017 17:42

shiv wrote:We are there all year round controlling DoKa La and Batang La

We are just next door in Sikkim, but if it snows in the plateau, then the Chinese have no place to go except the steep slopes toward Yadong to retreat to for safety. So we can supply Doka La all year long, not so for them.

I predict they will withdraw in winter without declaring anything and will be back again in Spring, if a war does not happen before they withdraw.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby IndraD » 16 Jul 2017 17:46

cases like these should be widely pubilicised by msm India
Liu Xiaobo was innocent, he died for us, says Chinese film maker
Nobel Peace Prize winner Liu Xiaobo, considered a dissentient by China for his pro-democracy activism, died of liver cancer on July 13
http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... iIXrM.html

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby fanne » 16 Jul 2017 18:24

I am laughing at china having 5:1 economic advantage over India, let the Chinese (or their Indian apologist) convince TSP, where we have 7:1 economic advantage to not mess with India and china can only remind us 1962 (we can remind them 1967), we can remind TSP of 1947, 65, 71 and 99.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chetak » 16 Jul 2017 20:08

SSridhar wrote:A Government of India servant, like the magistrate of Darjeeling, could not have met the Chinese Ambassador without authorization from GoI.It is against service rules to do so without clearance. I am not even sure if the Chinese ambassador could have travelled to Darjeeling without notifying GoI.


I am sure that all the requisite permissions were taken by the SDM. The question is why did the han meet the SDM?? This is tantamount to interference in the internal affairs of India.

I have never heard of an ambassador meeting some low level baboo(n) like an SDM, especially in a troubled area.

I am equally sure that the GoI is fully informed about the discussions in the said meeting.

meeting mamta banoo and pinarayi vijayan is unfortunate.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 16 Jul 2017 20:17

chetak wrote:meeting mamta banoo and pinarayi vijayan is unfortunate.

Shows Chinese desperation and an intent to send a message to scare the wits out of the Narendra Modi govt that Mamata, Budhoo and Vijayan will topple the Indian government. I think our hosting the Dalai Lama is not curable even with Burnol

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sanjaykumar » 16 Jul 2017 20:35

Every day that Indian troops are on Doklam is a day of shame for this super-power. What kind of lessons are the observers learning?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby hanumadu » 16 Jul 2017 20:46

Bade wrote:
shiv wrote:We are there all year round controlling DoKa La and Batang La

We are just next door in Sikkim, but if it snows in the plateau, then the Chinese have no place to go except the steep slopes toward Yadong to retreat to for safety. So we can supply Doka La all year long, not so for them.

I predict they will withdraw in winter without declaring anything and will be back again in Spring, if a war does not happen before they withdraw.


Can't we demolish the roads they built while they retreat in the winter? We can occupy the entire disputed area and prevent them from returning.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby A Deshmukh » 16 Jul 2017 20:47

chetak wrote:The question is why did the han meet the SDM?? This is tantamount to interference in the internal affairs of India.

+1. we can expel the chini ambassador for interference in the country.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 16 Jul 2017 20:55

Do we know if the amby did not have permission?

Just as a though experiment, if an amby is given permission to visit a district in say Karnataka who from state government side will interface with the amby while he is in the district hanji? Me thinks it will most likely be the DM/SDM.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 16 Jul 2017 22:03

So why would the Chinese ambassador be given permission to visit the Darjeeling DM and Mamata when Mamata is at loggerheads with the Gorkhaland movement ? This sounds more like a cock and bull story to me. If he went to Darjeeling post June 9th, then he had to be escorted by Bengal Police all the way to the DM's office as people were being evacuated by then out of town due to riots. Mamata is on record claiming outside interference (read China) in the unrest in the hills, so why would she provide such a service. Makes no sense.

That story is a plant.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 16 Jul 2017 22:07

hanumadu wrote:Can't we demolish the roads they built while they retreat in the winter? We can occupy the entire disputed area and prevent them from returning.

Why not use the same roads to enter Chumbi valley and cut them off entirely (from Haa valley) at first sign of Spring if they do that instead. Will have all of 2018 to fight a local war. :D

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 16 Jul 2017 22:13

Bade wrote:So why would the Chinese ambassador be given permission to visit the Darjeeling DM and Mamata when Mamata is at loggerheads with the Gorkhaland movement ? This sounds more like a cock and bull story to me. If he went to Darjeeling post June 9th, then he had to be escorted by Bengal Police all the way to the DM's office as people were being evacuated by then out of town due to riots. Mamata is on record claiming outside interference (read China) in the unrest in the hills, so why would she provide such a service. Makes no sense.

That story is a plant.

http://in.china-embassy.org/eng/gdxw/t1460615.htm
Ambassador Luo Zhaohui Meets with the District Magistrate of Darjeeling - 2017/04/30

Image
On April 30, Ambassador Luo Zhaohui and his wife Dr. Jiang Yili met with Ms. Joyoshi Das Gupta, District Magistrate of Darjeeling during their visit to the district.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 16 Jul 2017 22:20

So this was before the current unrest.

That looks like a perfect tourist picture with everyone smiling, with no signs of tension.
Last edited by Bade on 16 Jul 2017 22:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 16 Jul 2017 22:24

Yes 2 months old. So it is journalistic liberty with the news? or was there another one just recently? Did the Chinese ambassador visit Darjeeling twice in 2 months? I doubt that.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Yayavar » 16 Jul 2017 22:26

DavidD wrote:
rsingh wrote:There was a poster (RishiRishi IIRC) who told that BR is accessible in China. Is it possible to make a China specific thread for Chinese. Secondly is there any way of breaking great bullshit wall that blocks free flow of information. Hold on free and true information is biggest weapon China has.


It's not accessible in China, at least not the last time I went back in 2014. I tried from various locales in Beijing and Wuxi, all blocked.


hongkong?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 16 Jul 2017 22:27

At best it can be classified as a testing the waters mission, perhaps....but they put it on their website. So all official only from what one can tell. I am sure such visits are common to such destinations.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 16 Jul 2017 22:35

Ok this is how news is manufactured ...

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinio ... d-4752323/
Ever since the stand-off between India and China, the movements of Chinese Ambassador to India Luo Zhaohui have aroused curiosity. Zhaohui not only called on Rahul Gandhi but has also met other Opposition leaders: West Bengal Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee, Kerala Chief Minister Pinarayi Vijayan, former Assam chief minister Tarun Gogoi, his son Gaurav. He also met former national security advisor Shivshankar Menon and even the Darjeeling district magistrate.

With "Ever since the stand-off" a time marker has been inserted into your thinking to read the rest as following afterwards. And it ends with "He also met ... even the Darjeeling district magistrate."

So now it is easy to read the meeting to have occurred after the stand-off.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 16 Jul 2017 22:43

Also Global Times cannot make up its mind. Too many heads talking at odds with each other ?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 621523.cms
"China should be calm seeing India's rise. To cope with competition from India, China could start working on a more effective growth strategy for the new era now," it said.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 16 Jul 2017 22:50

One word. Anxiety!

For various reasons and at multiple levels.
Last edited by pankajs on 16 Jul 2017 22:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby schinnas » 16 Jul 2017 22:52

Unless GoI wanted to allow the meeting to see what the Cheena man is up to.

That said, the key callout of Coomi Kapoor's article wasn't the ambassadors meetings, but that of his wife's trip to Bhutan. All these meetings of the ambassador here might have inadvertently served as a smokescreen that covered up the real meeting cheena had with Bhutan royals and influential decision makers there.

One would get to learn the stuff RAW and MEA is made off in the months to come. Hope it doesn't disappoint us Jingo's.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DavidD » 16 Jul 2017 23:09

Deans wrote:DavidD, My understanding is that there is conscription for college students. This started as an experiment some 15 years ago but today there are
around 150,000+ college students inducted into the PLA each year. The intent was to provide the PLA with a cadre of technically competent people.
It is this group that has inadequate combat training, because whatever little training time there is is divided between political lectures and combat training.


This "conscription" has been around for a lot longer than 15 years I believe. College students spend the first like 4 weeks of their college career doing military training, then they get along with their studies. It's more of a public relations, know what the military life is like kind of exercise. Actual college grad cadets are recruited, not conscripted. With the social structure in China it'd cause an uproar if intellectuals are forced to serve in the military, I'm not sure if that's ever happened in any significant scale even in times of war.

pankajs wrote:Let me state the current position on these three points.
1. Most supplies for the landlocked Bhutan is from India and most of the exports are to India.
2. India-Butan border is without disputes, demarcated and peaceful and thus worry free for Bhutan.
3. Bhutan and India have agreed to take each others sensitivities into account and not allow their territory to be used against the other. From memory so may not be exact words but you get the gist.

Suppose Bhutan wants to cut a deal with China *behind* India's back. Now in light of the 3 points listed above.
1. Will such a move fetch peace for Bhutan?
2. Will it solve their boundary problem?
3. Will it improve Bhutans position?

The answer to all of the above is a big NO. it will just replace the current problem with another FAR bigger problem with India.
1. While Bhutan can diversify its trade in the long run and at a cost, in the short run an *issue* with India will cause a lot of suffering and certainly no peace.
2. What prevents the Indo-Bhutanese border from suddenly becoming disputed? For arguments sake, lets assume India claims a wide swathe of Bhutanese territory to preserve its cushion wrt the chicken's neck. Will Bhutan then call in the Chinese to help oust India? And will such a move bring peace to Bhutan or will it make it the military battleground for Indian and Chinese forces?
3. If India decides to move on Bhutan with or without the involvement of the Chinese will it improve Bhutans position wrt now?

While Bhutanese can decide for themselves any move that ignores India's concerns or imperils it's security will doubly impact Bhutan in a negative way. Any move away from status quo will only bring conflict to Bhutan.

Are the Bhutanese such duffers that they think putting India's security at risk will not invite a response? The farts that purport to speak on behalf of the Bhutanese are actually speaking on behalf of the Chinese.


You're misinterpreting Bhutanese intentions and underestimating their ingenuity. Your post essentially states, like many others' opinion, that Bhutan needs to choose sides. However, they don't want to choose sides. They don't want to hurt Indian interests nor Chinese ones, they just want to stay the heck out of this conflict. What they did essentially is that they acquiesced to Chinese claims, but also allowed the Indians pass through their territory to protect their interests, telling both sides that Bhutan can't withstand their pressures so do what you two want with Doklam. As I've said before, all that's changed is that Bhutan is no longer the buffer, the cloak that covers what's really a Sino-Indian dispute, which is what Bhutan wants.

For decades China worked hard to split Bhutan and India. As China made some headways in recent year India has increasingly stepped up the pressure to split Bhutan and China. With one move Bhutan has succeeded in ridding itself from the conflict. By throwing the tantalizing hot potato to China, India and China are now directly at loggerheads at Doklam, and Bhutan can be the spectator it always wanted to be. Brilliant move, I'd say.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 16 Jul 2017 23:18

Like I said, Bhutan has to cede to India just the tri-junction area adjoining the tip of the dagger on its side of the valley till the Doklam plateau where they are willing to cede land to China, and perhaps we can all call it a day for now at least. This way the Siliguri corridor gains some more width for India, though it is all hill country and reserve forest area from google maps.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 16 Jul 2017 23:23

DavidD wrote:You're misinterpreting Bhutanese intentions and underestimating their ingenuity. Your post essentially states, like many others' opinion, that Bhutan needs to choose sides. However, they don't want to choose sides. They don't want to hurt Indian interests nor Chinese ones, they just want to stay the heck out of this conflict. What they did essentially is that they acquiesced to Chinese claims, but also allowed the Indians pass through their territory to protect their interests, telling both sides that Bhutan can't withstand their pressures so do what you two want with Doklam. As I've said before, all that's changed is that Bhutan is no longer the buffer, the cloak that covers what's really a Sino-Indian dispute, which is what Bhutan wants.

For decades China worked hard to split Bhutan and India. As China made some headways in recent year India has increasingly stepped up the pressure to split Bhutan and China. With one move Bhutan has succeeded in ridding itself from the conflict. By throwing the tantalizing hot potato to China, India and China are now directly at loggerheads at Doklam, and Bhutan can be the spectator it always wanted to be. Brilliant move, I'd say.

If Bhutan acquiesced to the Chinese claim in the Chumbi valley then they must have gotten the northern disputed area in return as proposed by the Chinese as swap. There is no news of that till date but lets watch.

While Bhutan may prefer to be a spectator, it has rid itself if nothing. The land for which India and China are face to face is disputed between Bhutan and China. Unless it wills away its claim in favor of either China or India it remains enmeshed in the stand-off.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Venkarl » 16 Jul 2017 23:35

pankajs wrote:Yes 2 months old. So it is journalistic liberty with the news? or was there another one just recently? Did the Chinese ambassador visit Darjeeling twice in 2 months? I doubt that.


Purpose of this meet? To do some recce of the chicken neck? Is the current situation a result of an action taken at that time by cheenis? too many threads going haywire in my head....

We need to have this chicken neck centrally governed for atleast 5 years and transform it into a garrisoned town making it as a home to a new Gorkha Regiment and initiate a recruitment drive to pull in Gorkha Youth. After 5 years or so, Center can decide whether to create Gurkha state or keep it as a UT..but definitely not under Kolkata Administration. This piece of land is too vital to have it in the hands of Bengal Commies/Didis (No offense meant to BangaBandhus).....Bottom line is to completely secure this piece of land...like we have a strong Punjab in the west....Chicken neck/Gorkhaland (sic) in the east.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 16 Jul 2017 23:39

Gorkhaland has to expand further to the west to Nepal, to make it an effective strategy. One of the issues is that west Sikkim has significant Nepali population, so Sikkim may not go with the idea as it might impact them too.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DavidD » 17 Jul 2017 01:22

pankajs wrote:
DavidD wrote:You're misinterpreting Bhutanese intentions and underestimating their ingenuity. Your post essentially states, like many others' opinion, that Bhutan needs to choose sides. However, they don't want to choose sides. They don't want to hurt Indian interests nor Chinese ones, they just want to stay the heck out of this conflict. What they did essentially is that they acquiesced to Chinese claims, but also allowed the Indians pass through their territory to protect their interests, telling both sides that Bhutan can't withstand their pressures so do what you two want with Doklam. As I've said before, all that's changed is that Bhutan is no longer the buffer, the cloak that covers what's really a Sino-Indian dispute, which is what Bhutan wants.

For decades China worked hard to split Bhutan and India. As China made some headways in recent year India has increasingly stepped up the pressure to split Bhutan and China. With one move Bhutan has succeeded in ridding itself from the conflict. By throwing the tantalizing hot potato to China, India and China are now directly at loggerheads at Doklam, and Bhutan can be the spectator it always wanted to be. Brilliant move, I'd say.

If Bhutan acquiesced to the Chinese claim in the Chumbi valley then they must have gotten the northern disputed area in return as proposed by the Chinese as swap. There is no news of that till date but lets watch.

While Bhutan may prefer to be a spectator, it has rid itself if nothing. The land for which India and China are face to face is disputed between Bhutan and China. Unless it wills away its claim in favor of either China or India it remains enmeshed in the stand-off.


That's exactly the scenario we're discussing. The article that spawned this discussion purports that Bhutan has agreed to the exchange, the other poster said that it makes no sense for Bhutan to do that, and I'm arguing that it makes perfect sense. Bhutan will not openly confirm that they agree to the exchange, that would be a blow to India, just like how they've yet to openly declare their permission for India to fight there, as that would be a blow to China. Bhutan's silence, IMO, has been a deafening attestation to my argument.

Now their stance may change in the future, they'll probably be keeping a close eye on where the wind blows, but I think the status quo suits them quite well and they stand to benefit from both sides' courting.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chetak » 17 Jul 2017 01:32

Venkarl wrote:
pankajs wrote:Yes 2 months old. So it is journalistic liberty with the news? or was there another one just recently? Did the Chinese ambassador visit Darjeeling twice in 2 months? I doubt that.


Purpose of this meet? To do some recce of the chicken neck? Is the current situation a result of an action taken at that time by cheenis? too many threads going haywire in my head....

We need to have this chicken neck centrally governed for atleast 5 years and transform it into a garrisoned town making it as a home to a new Gorkha Regiment and initiate a recruitment drive to pull in Gorkha Youth. After 5 years or so, Center can decide whether to create Gurkha state or keep it as a UT..but definitely not under Kolkata Administration. This piece of land is too vital to have it in the hands of Bengal Commies/Didis (No offense meant to BangaBandhus).....Bottom line is to completely secure this piece of land...like we have a strong Punjab in the west....Chicken neck/Gorkhaland (sic) in the east.


the chicken's neck corridor has already been well settled by a large beedi population. That cannot be a mere coincidence but it is a well thought out strategy by the ISI, planned and implemented.

the sucmmunists were complicit in letting this happen unchecked for their vote banks.

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Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Peregrine » 17 Jul 2017 02:12

China should 'keep calm' about India's rise: Global Times

BEIJING: India is receiving a "massive influx" of foreign investments which will greatly enhance its ability to develop the manufacturing sector and China should "keep calm" and start working on a more effective growth strategy for the new era, a state-run newspaper said on Sunday.

"This massive influx of investment by foreign manufacturers is of great significance for India's economy, employment and industrial development," an article in the Global Times said.

"China should be calm seeing India's rise. To cope with competition from India, China could start working on a more effective growth strategy for the new era now," it said.

The influx of foreign manufacturers is addressing some of India's weaknesses and enhancing its manufacturing ability, with Chinese companies also playing an important role in the process, according to the article.

"This is a repeat of China's introduction of foreign investment, which is why it is likely that India may succeed."

"If in the past India lacked capital, a developed manufacturing sector and skilled manufacturing workers, the foreign manufacturing inflow is now helping India address the problem, backing up the government's 'Make in India' initiative," it said.

The article listed a host of foreign companies including some of the Chinese firms which are investing in India.

"It should be pointed out that what is happening in India occurred in China two decades ago.

"Just like what happened with China during its reform and opening-up, the arrival of foreign manufacturing will greatly enhance India's ability to develop its manufacturing sector, which will help in cultivating a large number of skilled workers, managers and factories," it added.

Cheers Image

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby darshan » 17 Jul 2017 02:28

Did NDA1 have any strategies planned for tri junction that were not carried out by UPA?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 17 Jul 2017 04:44

How does that help now?
Need to deal with now and future?
We waste time on past.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby darshan » 17 Jul 2017 07:06

ramana wrote:How does that help now?
Need to deal with now and future?
We waste time on past.

Curious from the 2019 perspective unless we are taking return of BJP for granted. Does present GoI need to devise strategy with two years in mind or longer? If UPA had not carried on NDA1's policy and strategy, then present GoI has very short window to make sure that nation's long term goals are secured.

ramana
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 17 Jul 2017 07:18

There is GOI and there is BJP and NDA.

All different. We have politics thread in GDF.

shiv
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 17 Jul 2017 07:25

darshan wrote:Did NDA1 have any strategies planned for tri junction that were not carried out by UPA?

Political arguments should not be combined with reality. It is normal in Indian politics to blame the party in power for not doing things that did not need doing, let alone stuff that needed to be done.

In fact 99.99% of all ministers and baboos will have no clue as to whadafug Tri Junction means.

The only publicly available facts are that no agreements could be reached about disputed areas and so under the Narasimha Rao government agreement was reached that neither side would encroach and build anything in those areas. Apparently the Sikkim border was "settled". There was nothing to do at the tri junction but the Indian army had adequate vigilance at the accepted border.

That is how China decided to do gaandmasti in Bhutan. That said I think the Indian army presence has increased gradually over recent years because of regular Chinese patrols and incursions into areas that they dispute and that needs to be checked. 2015 Google Earth images show no roads in Do Kala, In 2017 road building has been thwarted. In NDA lose power in 2019 it will be their turn to cook up and blame UPA for something or other, true or false

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby hanumadu » 17 Jul 2017 07:25



I think this is a major reason for the encroachment. Show Modi is incapable of defending India and affect his election chances. Probably the commie congi gang gave them the idea. The tweet by congi spokesman Sanjay Jha after news of encroachment came out was of 56 inch chest.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ldev » 17 Jul 2017 08:14

New Delhi is ~350 kms from the nearest Chinese border. Beijing & Shanghai are ~2500 kms from the nearest Indian border in Arunachal Pradesh. The Siliguri corridor of which so much has been made in the current stand-off is much closer to the stand-off site. And the Siliguri corridor is critical as India's link to the entire north east. At it's narrowest it is, depending on various accounts, only 17 kms or 22 kms wide.

So, India is defending a position which is critical for it's national security. In fact, given that the northern Indian heartland and the capital itself is 350 kms from the Chinese border, India is defending it's heartland. China on the other hand is pushing aggressively on a front which is not critical for it's national security given that for a 500-1000 kms distance from the border depending on which direction one travels, Tibet is sparsely populated. So India massing troops at the border will not have the same threat on China as a massinng of Chinese troops at the Indian border which directly threaten critical Indian territory.

The only thing that will make China sit up is an equivalent Indian threat to the Chinese heartland. And that Chinese heartland unfortunately is not accessible to India either by land or in a meaningful way by air. it's only via the sea route. That is what IMO India has to concentrate on, to ensure conventional deterrence at the border. Without that ability to conventionally threaten the Chinese heartland from the sea, India will always be playing a defensive game at the border. But with the IN in place off the Chinese coast, China will be made aware that a threat either to the Siliguri corridor or the Indian heartland could be countered with large scale damage to it's prosperous coastal cities/ports and other infrastructure.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby vijaykarthik » 17 Jul 2017 08:19

GopiD wrote:My assumption is, China will be given some kind of face saver and they will return to their original positions earlier to 16th June in Doko La. Or if the chinese want a fight, they will make sure its local.

For us, we won’t hit CPEC until we are ready to take back that area forever.




Just out of curiousity, if we had that kind of strength and actually planned to take the area, why will anyone want to destroy the infra in it? That will be for the loser to do so we can't use that infra.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 17 Jul 2017 08:42

ldev wrote:New Delhi is ~350 kms from the nearest Chinese border. Beijing & Shanghai are ~2500 kms from the nearest Indian border in Arunachal Pradesh.

This is a Delhi centric view - which would be pleasing to central government types.

For folks in Arunachal Pradesh and Assam the threat is very close and I don't think Beijing has to be hit to reduce the threat. All we have to do is comprehensively defeat the Chinese armed forces at the border and make inroads into China held Tibet.

I don't think the world has yet turned a full circle where major powers will go back to decimating each other's cities. The logical way to do that is with nuclear weapons and in my view all talk of long range bombers dropping puny conventional loads which did not work in WW2 or Vietnam should be set aside. Attacks on Arunachal and Assam cities should invite retaliation of mainland Chinese cities starting with Chengdu and Yunnan. We should be willing to let Delhi, Bangalore and other cities be hit by hitting China hard if the start destroying Itanagar, Guwahati or Shillong. Lay waste to cities in mainland China. There can be no two ways about it.

Itanagar to Chengdu is 1000 km.
Imphal to Yunnan is 750 km


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