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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby TKiran » 25 Oct 2017 11:28

^^^but doklam was completely imposed by India on China. They didn't plan for it, (if they did plan for doklam, there was ample reason for PLA to launch military strikes).

Himalayas are natural borders for India, how much ever China tries to alter that fact, it's not gonna work. India can do a Bangladesh to Tibet at any time, that's a strategic reality, which was the very reason why China wants to fortify Tibet for the last 55years, but with one small stroke, India brought that reality into the full glare of the world, and USA came running to India for alliance.

To their credit, Chinese always feared India's advantage in Tibet, but never thought India would open teeth and show the canines.

It's India which defused the doklam, whereas, China didn't have a clue as to how to save it's face. All the Chinese dreams of nurturing Pakis as counterweight to India fell like a heap of cards. (పేక మేడలా కూలింది).

Rest assured, China will never try land route to attack India.

Also, even though China is trying hard, it has serious disadvantages vis a vis India in Indian ocean, Gwadar or not, that strategic reality also is going to dawn on China sooner than later (another doklam in Indian ocean).

The more immediate danger to China security is in the domain of economy. China has had a free ride so far, but they have a formidable foe challenging it's place in the form of India, if India plays it's cards properly, China's economy will crash like a heap of cards.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby vijaykarthik » 25 Oct 2017 15:19

Peregrine wrote:Fellow B-RFites : I am sure that that China will issue a New "RED BOOK" with statements like "I pass my Molning Evacuation Fastel as I have my Molning Evacuation accolding to the THOUGHT OF CHAILMAN ELEVEN GIN PEGS"

Concern for India as China's Communist Party includes Belt and Road Initiative in constitution

Cheers Image


After reading the first line of your post, my brain led me to read the title as follows: Concern for India as China's Communist Party includes Belt and Road Initiative in constitution constipation.

My keyboard is paying the price currently.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby srinebula » 25 Oct 2017 23:38

UlanBatori wrote:But..but... wasn't this the purpose of License Raj? Isn't this exactly a reversion to License Raj? How do you reduce this to "1-window permit"? Instead, a maker of a toy now has to get Certification from Authorized Laboratories for this and that and that and this and whatever. Are these Authorized Labs certified for compliance with no bribe, no delay, prompt processing, guidance to meet standards etc? How does a small toy-maker survive, without access to her own Patent Lawyer, chemical analyst, engineering standards testing lab, provider of a list of required licenses, etc etc etc? Isn't this Nehruvian Socialism run amok?

When the British Raj introduced these sorts of things, it was to benefit mass-produced British goods over distributed cottage industry mode of India. It totally destroyed Indian cottage industry. Why do you think this new round is going to be any better?


This new requirements seems to be only for imports:

The notification by the Director General of Foreign Trade (DGFT) says import of toys shall be permitted freely only if the manufacturer abides by norms of

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 26 Oct 2017 09:07

Why 500,000 Chins are going to be squatting at Gwadar,a veritable army at the gateway to Baluchistan and forestall any attempt by India to turn Baluchistan an independent nation. The Baluchis are the ones who will have to make life difficult for the Chins making the cost of controlling the state unaffordable.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 26 Oct 2017 19:23

Are there no Indian op-eds on China? Has the China watcher community collapsed in India?

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Peregrine » 26 Oct 2017 21:52

Why ale Eleven Gin Pegs "Factum Factotums" Lunning aftel India to join BRI - CPEC?

India should shed its reservations over Belt and Road Initiative and join it: China

BEIJING: China on Thursday said India should shed its reservations over President Xi Jinping's ambitious 'Belt and Road Initiative' and join the project as it will not change Beijing's stand on the Kashmir issue.

The BRI, which includes China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), has been included in the Constitution of the ruling Communist Party of China in the just concluded once-in-a- five-year Congress.

"We welcome other countries including India to participate in the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) on the basis of voluntarism," Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang told media briefing here today.

The BRI's goal is to promote connectivity between regional countries and common prosperity of all countries, the spokesman said.

"The initiative will not affect China's position on relevant issues and our position on relevant initiatives will not be changed," he said.

China has been reiterating that the USD 50 billion CPEC which traverses though the Pakistan-occupied Kashmir is a connectivity project and will not affect its stand that the Kashmir issue should be resolved between India and Pakistan through talks.

India has objected to the CPEC as it is being laid through the disputed territory and boycotted a high-profile Belt and Road Forum organised by China in May.

The BRI will bring tangible benefits to those who are participating in the project at an early date, Geng said. Mistel Geng lie thlough his teeth! India no want to fall fol 11 Gin Peg's Con Tlicks!!

BRI has been included in the CPC Constitution as part of President Xi's ideological thought putting more pressure on Chinese officials to work for early harvest from the massive amount of investment being poured by China in Pakistan and other countries.

According to a senior CPC official, the Chinese firms so far have invested $560 billion overseas under the BRI since 2013 and paid over $100 billion in taxes and created millions of jobs.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ArjunPandit » 27 Oct 2017 05:43

I think Indian diplomats should say to Chinese counterparts thanks but go fvck yourself

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 27 Oct 2017 05:58

It is time for India to return the BRI favour in the same kind.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Hari Seldon » 27 Oct 2017 09:53

SSridhar wrote:It is time for India to return the BRI favour in the same kind.


+1. Build a 'connectivity' road initative connecting North Sikkim with Bhutan via Chumbi.

After all, its just a connectivity project and our stand that the disputes should be amicably resolved by talks with the Tibetians isn't affected. No?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ArjunPandit » 27 Oct 2017 12:04

Hari Seldon wrote:
SSridhar wrote:It is time for India to return the BRI favour in the same kind.


+1. Build a 'connectivity' road initative connecting North Sikkim with Bhutan via Chumbi.

After all, its just a connectivity project and our stand that the disputes should be amicably resolved by talks with the Tibetians isn't affected. No?

+1

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby vijaykarthik » 27 Oct 2017 13:27

SSridhar wrote:It is time for India to return the BRI favour in the same kind.


Times Now says that Japan is approaching India with a plan to counter OBOR with an OBOR-like plan. If they are do the same crescent and do both Sea and Land, it will be stronger than the Chinese plan.

Will the Indian govt take up the offer. Will they be serious about implementing it.

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Peregrine » 27 Oct 2017 15:04

Chinese premier Xi orders PLA to be combat-ready as he begins 2nd term

BEIJING: Chinese President Xi Jinping has begun his second five-year term ordering the country's 2.3 million-strong military, the world's largest, to be absolutely loyal to the ruling Communist Party and intensify its combat readiness by focussing on how to win wars.

The once-in-a-five-year Congress of the Communist Party endorsed Xi's leadership of the party, the military and the presidency this week and approved his ideology to be written into its Constitution, elevating him on par with modern China's founder Chairman Mao Zedong and his successor Deng Xiaoping.

Xi, 67, began his second tenure on Thursday by holding a meeting of top military officials, regarded as a main source of power base.

Xi, who heads the powerful Central Military Commission (CMC) the overall high command of Chinese military, is the only civilian leader in the body which is otherwise packed with top most officials of the armed forces.

The new CMC line-up which was unveiled on Wednesday will be led by a group of seven, down from the 11 members who headed its operations before.
Earlier reports said Xi, who consolidated his power in the last five years with a massive anti-corruption campaign in which over a million officials were punished wanted to shrink the Standing Committee of the party to five from seven.

But apparently, he did not succeed as other groups in the party headed by former leaders pressed for status quo to include their nominees in the highest-ranking body bringing it a semblance of balance in power equations.

In the last night's meeting of top military officials, some high-ranking officials were conspicuously absent, Hong- Kong based South China Morning Post reported.

It appeared from the state-run CCTV report that two top generals, the former chief of general staff General Fang Fenghui and director of the political work department, General Zhang Yang were absent.

Both Fang and Zhang were CMC members in Xi's first term, but they were left off the list of PLA delegates to this month's party Congress.

Earlier the two Generals were taken away on the same day last month as part of a corruption investigation, the Post report said.

Meeting top military officials, he ordered them to be absolutely loyal to the party, to focus on how to win in wars, to pioneer reforms and innovation, to scientifically manage commanding a unit, to lead troops in accordance with the strictest standards and to take the forefront in complying with laws and regulations.

He also told the officers to strengthen party-building within the military and to continue to intensify combat-ready training and exercises, to keep carrying out reforms in the national defence system and the military, and to carefully consider strategic issues concerning the PLA's future development, the official media here reported.

Defence ministry spokesman Ren Guoqiang said on Thursday that Xi's plan to strengthen the military would be fully implemented and his authority would be upheld.

Xi asked the PLA officers to learn and implement the spirit of the just-concluded 19th CPC National Congress by following the road of building a strong army with Chinese characteristics and promoting the modernisation of national defence and the army.

"We should strive to fully transform the people's armed forces into a world-class military by the mid-21st century," Xi said.

He said that during the past five years, the CMC has endeavoured to build an army that follows the command of the CPC, capable of winning battles and has a fine style of work, the state-run Xinhua news agency reported.

During his previous tenure, Xi carried out widespread reforms of the military including reconfiguring the command structure, slashed three lakh troops from 2.3 million military, cut the size of the army to a million and made navy more powerful to push China's influence abroad.

Over 13,000 military personnel including top generals were punished in the anti-graft campaign. With over $141 billion-dollar annual budget, Chinese military is next only to the US in terms of defence spending.

Xi also said the military should obey CPC's absolute leadership over the armed forces, innovate military strategy, govern the army by law and promoting civil-military integration.

Senior officers, as the backbone of the campaign to build a strong army, should be loyal and obedient to the party, be good and smart at combat and endeavour to reform, Xi said.

Unlike other countries, the military in China functions under the party and not under the government.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 27 Oct 2017 15:37

vijaykarthik wrote:
SSridhar wrote:It is time for India to return the BRI favour in the same kind.


Times Now says that Japan is approaching India with a plan to counter OBOR with an OBOR-like plan. If they are do the same crescent and do both Sea and Land, it will be stronger than the Chinese plan.

Will the Indian govt take up the offer. Will they be serious about implementing it.

For almost two or three years now, Japan has been willing to fund projects with Indian manpower in various countries in Asia to counter the Chinese influence. The projects do not progress even at a tenth of the pace at which the Chinese projects go.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 27 Oct 2017 15:46

Peregrine wrote:Chinese premier Xi orders PLA to be combat-ready as he begins 2nd term

BEIJING: . . . Senior officers, as the backbone of the campaign to build a strong army, should be loyal and obedient to the party, be good and smart at combat and endeavour to reform, Xi said.

This constant reminder to the PLA to be 'loyal and obedient' points to issues on both these scores, doesn't it? The Spokesperson of the PLA has said, after the 19th Congress, that Xi's command would be 'obeyed', again pointing to a flaky situation.
Peregrine wrote:Unlike other countries, the military in China functions under the party and not under the government.

That's what Xi has effectively bridged by being the General Secretary of the Party, President of the State, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces and Chief of the Central Military Commission (CMC) all at the same time.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 27 Oct 2017 16:24

Abe's re-election is a god's gift for us to get tech and capabilities like how China did by siding with US against Russia.

The biggest Chinese exports are electronics and Japan & Taiwan had a huge hand in progressing Chinese electronics manufacturing.

We need to do what it takes to get Japan gift us some of the tech power it has.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 27 Oct 2017 16:53

The problem is we are too slow. And, we have excuses for being slow.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 27 Oct 2017 18:14

Japan to propose strategic dialogue with US, India and Australia: Report - Agencies, ToI
Japan will propose a strategic dialogue among leaders of the United States, India and Australia, aiming at counteracting China's expansion under its "Belt and Road" policy, foreign minister Taro Kono told the Nikkei business daily.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is expected to propose the idea to US President Donald Trump on November 6
when they plan to hold a summit meeting, said the Nikkei on Thursday.

The proposal is for the leaders of the four nations to promote free trade and defence cooperation across the land and sea to Southeast, South and Central Asia, and beyond to the Middle East and Africa, Kono said in the interview with the Nikkei conducted on Wednesday.

"We are in an era when Japan has to exert itself diplomatically by drawing a big strategic picture," Kono was quoted as saying.

"To maintain free and open ocean, the economy and security will surely be on the table," he said.

Kono said the aim was to also promote high-quality infrastructure investment across Asia to Africa.

Chinese President Xi Jinping's vast "Belt and Road" infrastructure project was included in the ruling Communist Party's constitution on Tuesday, giving it greater policy heft and added pressure to succeed.

The "Belt and Road" plan, a "Silk Road"-like initiative, is a vehicle for China to take a greater role on the international stage by funding and building global transport and trade links in more than 60 countries.

'Every movie does not require a villain'

Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar said Indo-Japan cooperation and joint connectivity initiatives should not be described as a competition to anyone.

"We have the silk road. We probably have more ownership on the silk road than anybody else, even if... we lost the branding on the route. But the point is that we have a certain view of how connectivity projects should come about. So, what we laid out earlier in the year was our viewpoint and at that point there were concerns saying we are getting isolated," Jaishankar said at an event in Delhi.

Jaishankar also said but if you see the developments in last two months, one can see many of the concerns that India articulated in the summer have become topic of international concerns.

"We hear this with Japan, we hear this with the US and we hear this in Europe. So, in some ways, I think it is important that we have a view point, the conviction to speak up. We can not always be a follower or an abstainer on the big international debates," he added.

Responding to another question on presence of a "villain" in the growing "romance" between India and Japan, the foreign secretary said the relationship between them has a larger value for Asia, considering the investments done by the two giants in several countries.

"Every movie, does not require a villain," the foreign secretary quipped.


I recall my following post here in July last:

But, the other two partners in the alliance have a strong relationship with the Aussies already. India has, IMO, acceded to that by starting a separate military relationship with the Aussies. It is only a matter of time before the Aussies will be formally inducted into the emerging (some might say, 'emerged' ) alliance; most probably next year.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 27 Oct 2017 18:25

Abe has got a supermajority just now and Xi has a ringing endorsement as well.

While Abe's supermajority would allow him to change the constitution even more, it is Xi's 'superpower' that causes wide fear and revulsion all across Asia.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 27 Oct 2017 19:21

SSridhar wrote:The problem is we are too slow. And, we have excuses for being slow.


I know.

It is such a opportunity. Japanese give us tech, we give them market, scale, preferential tax regime and..visit to Bodh Gaya.

We have a Buddhist superpower, a religion born in our country right in front of us.. and we as usual.. .

Need to learn something from the Saudis.In another decade 3 out of 5 top GDPs of the world will have religious ties to India.

Chinese have historical ties to Buddism, Japan Buddism, India Hindus. There is Saudi style religious money to be made!

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 27 Oct 2017 23:33

SSridhar wrote:Abe has got a supermajority just now and Xi has a ringing endorsement as well.

While Abe's supermajority would allow him to change the constitution even more, it is Xi's 'superpower' that causes wide fear and revulsion all across Asia.


Modi needs a supermajority in his next elections, good for India. Is sickening to see the Chinese running after Pappu during the Doklam situation

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 27 Oct 2017 23:37

nam wrote:Abe's re-election is a god's gift for us to get tech and capabilities like how China did by siding with US against Russia.

The biggest Chinese exports are electronics and Japan & Taiwan had a huge hand in progressing Chinese electronics manufacturing.

We need to do what it takes to get Japan gift us some of the tech power it has.


India sure can use the mid-tier consumer electronics technologies and software development for the high tier segment ... for now.. now, where are those chip fabs ??

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 27 Oct 2017 23:40

why not include the South China sea as a part of India Japan transit corridor .. let's develop some ports in Philippines and Vietnam

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 28 Oct 2017 00:50

http://www.atimes.com/article/chinas-pr ... atellites/

China’s precision navigation system to use 30 satellites

China is building a military-grade navigation system called BeiDou-3 that will have global coverage through more than 30 satellites, according to an academic speaking on the sidelines of the 19th National Congress of the Communist Party of China.In 1995, China started to develop its first BeiDou Navigation Satellite System as an alternative to the Global Positioning System in use by the United States, Dr Wang Feixue, a professor at the College of Electronic Science and Engineering, National University of Defense Technology, said at a media briefing on Sunday evening.“Our satellite program kicked off 20 years later than foreign countries’. We have not yet achieved full global coverage at the moment,” Wang said. “There is still a long way for us to go.” As China only had the resources to launch six satellites two decades ago, its scientists could only use two satellites to track an object, he said. However, they faced a problem with “fast capture”, a key technology for navigation, he said.“At that time, my team and I were interested in taking the challenge, and finally tackled the problem by using some new technologies,” he said. Based on their achievements, China now has BeiDou-2, which can connect to more than 10 satellites, and is developing BeiDou-3, he said.“Even if our satellite system can achieve full global coverage by 2020, we should not slow down, as technology is improving every day,” he said. His team will continue to help equip the People’s Liberation Army with new technologies.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Arjun » 29 Oct 2017 10:20

India diffident about OBOR alternative??! WTF !

https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/in ... ina-181544

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby periaswamy » 29 Oct 2017 10:36

QUESTION: Nike Ching with the Voice of America. So does United States has the Chinese-led AIIB, Asia Infrastructure and Investment Bank, in mind when Secretary Tillerson was talking about having an alternative financing mechanism in South Asia?

AMBASSADOR WELLS: As Secretary of Defense Mattis said, I think it was two weeks ago, there are many belts and many roads. And so what does the U.S. have to offer? What does the U.S., Japan, Australia, other countries, India, other countries that share the values of transparency, sustainable debt, responsible development – what do we have to offer. So this is not to counter something; it is a positive vision of what important democracies in the Indo-Pacific region should be doing and how we can work better together.

The example that I always like to give is the Millennium Challenge Corporation’s $680 million project in Nepal, 130 million of which is funded by the Government of Nepal,


That is from the Indo-US thread -- while it would be nice to see this as some sort of alliance against China, that cannot be taken for granted. This is just another means of countries like the US to send in their missionary hordes and get a foothold in the region where they do not have any, except for Afghanisthan, at this time. The question India probably has is "what is in it for India?" -- US and Australia getting a foothold in Nepal, for example does nothing for India. Quite the opposite.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby vijaykarthik » 29 Oct 2017 10:48

^ if we always looked at what is in it for us, there will be no difference between us and China. Sustainable debt and responsible dev are important ideals and the very fact that we can help the other country in infra with sustainable debt means we can have some soft power and keep them from doing things which are inimical to our interests. Unlike China,like any loan shark, which will try to get its pound of flesh.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby periaswamy » 29 Oct 2017 10:53

vijaykarthik: If we always looked at what is in it for us, there will be no difference between us and China.


What else are we supposed to look at? How best to differentiate ourselves from China? What is the value of that kind of thinking? Who gives a damn if we are the same or different from china, as along as we take steps to improve our power and standing over time?

Sustainable debt and responsible dev are important ideals and the very fact that we can help the other country in infra with sustainable debt means we can have some soft power and keep them from doing things which are inimical to our interests. Unlike China,like any loan shark, which will try to get its pound of flesh.


If India is not being given a central role of funding these projects (or cannot afford a central role), what makes you so sure that India will have any leverage on these countries down the line? Japan I can understand. But USA and Australia are the same aholes supporting the Pakis currently, and trying to screw India in its own neighbourhood. Why do you think that will change when these countries get more leverage in the neighbourhood. Why is it any better than China in the neighbourhood? At least china has skin in the game when it comes to stability around its borders. What skin in the game does the US have? In fact, they have funded the pakis against India for 50 years precisely because they have no skin in the game.

"What have you done for me lately?" is a perfectly legitimate and worthwhile question in such circumstances.

The real question is: what is the answer from these people who want to gain a foothold in the region? Australia is not a dependable country and the Chinese own Aussie Arse. Why won't the aussies collude with China against India down the line? Already the aholes are making it hard for India to do business with them as seen by Adani's travails.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sanjayc » 29 Oct 2017 11:29

vijaykarthik wrote:^ if we always looked at what is in it for us, there will be no difference between us and China. Sustainable debt and responsible dev are important ideals and the very fact that we can help the other country in infra with sustainable debt means we can have some soft power and keep them from doing things which are inimical to our interests. Unlike China,like any loan shark, which will try to get its pound of flesh.


This kind of mindless idealism and Santa Claus approach to international relations has ruined our image on the global stage - we are considered as sissies unable to do any kind of realpolitic or use military muscle, we are humiliated by even small countries like Maldives and Sri Lanka ... Hard bargainers get respect on international stage, not Gandhian simpletons who are expressing good wishes for all and sundry

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby vijaykarthik » 29 Oct 2017 22:00

periaswamy wrote:What else are we supposed to look at? How best to differentiate ourselves from China? What is the value of that kind of thinking? Who gives a damn if we are the same or different from china, as along as we take steps to improve our power and standing over time?

We differentiate ourselves by being a partner in their development. Not by telling them its my way or the highway. China pretty much does that and people inside China might appreciate it but the countries don't. (Think African countries and their complicated relation with china, for e.g.)

periaswamy wrote:If India is not being given a central role of funding these projects (or cannot afford a central role), what makes you so sure that India will have any leverage on these countries down the line? Japan I can understand.


You are taking my statements out of context. I never mentioned India shouldn't be in the drivers seat.

All that I mentioned was that India needs to be mindful of the other countries concerns and be an equal partner. And no country will act if something is not in its interest. No questions there. However, if we started playing the Chinas game, we will lose the moral equation that is usually equated with us and will eventually lose a lot in the game as we are currently in the "right" side and hence will get support from all the parties eventually because the other option is infinitely more dangerous. Its a long game and we need to stick to the options which are on the "right" and practical side of things.
Last edited by vijaykarthik on 29 Oct 2017 22:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby vijaykarthik » 29 Oct 2017 22:05

sanjayc wrote:
vijaykarthik wrote:^ if we always looked at what is in it for us, there will be no difference between us and China. Sustainable debt and responsible dev are important ideals and the very fact that we can help the other country in infra with sustainable debt means we can have some soft power and keep them from doing things which are inimical to our interests. Unlike China,like any loan shark, which will try to get its pound of flesh.


This kind of mindless idealism and Santa Claus approach to international relations has ruined our image on the global stage - we are considered as sissies unable to do any kind of realpolitic or use military muscle, we are humiliated by even small countries like Maldives and Sri Lanka ... Hard bargainers get respect on international stage, not Gandhian simpletons who are expressing good wishes for all and sundry


you are again taking it out of context. Its pretty clear what I meant and I stand my ground. Responsible dev and sustainable debt are important concerns and it has nothing to do with being a sissy. The other side of not caring about it will be what China does and Sri Lanka is pretty much paying the price for not being prudent about its finances. It will be a matter of time before Pakistan gets the same feeling.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 29 Oct 2017 22:46

periaswamy wrote:
vijaykarthik: If we always looked at what is in it for us, there will be no difference between us and China.


What else are we supposed to look at? How best to differentiate ourselves from China? What is the value of that kind of thinking? Who gives a damn if we are the same or different from china, as along as we take steps to improve our power and standing over time?

Sustainable debt and responsible dev are important ideals and the very fact that we can help the other country in infra with sustainable debt means we can have some soft power and keep them from doing things which are inimical to our interests. Unlike China,like any loan shark, which will try to get its pound of flesh.


If India is not being given a central role of funding these projects (or cannot afford a central role), what makes you so sure that India will have any leverage on these countries down the line? Japan I can understand. But USA and Australia are the same aholes supporting the Pakis currently, and trying to screw India in its own neighbourhood. Why do you think that will change when these countries get more leverage in the neighbourhood. Why is it any better than China in the neighbourhood? At least china has skin in the game when it comes to stability around its borders. What skin in the game does the US have? In fact, they have funded the pakis against India for 50 years precisely because they have no skin in the game.

"What have you done for me lately?" is a perfectly legitimate and worthwhile question in such circumstances.

The real question is: what is the answer from these people who want to gain a foothold in the region? Australia is not a dependable country and the Chinese own Aussie Arse. Why won't the aussies collude with China against India down the line? Already the aholes are making it hard for India to do business with them as seen by Adani's travails.


I would not let the Aussies into any alliance that really matters.Period.They will sink the ship when it really matters.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 29 Oct 2017 22:48

Arjun wrote:India diffident about OBOR alternative??! WTF !

https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/in ... ina-181544


India will in an alternative only when it calls the shots, it is not going to be a neo-colonial imperative .Sorry America

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby KrishnaK » 30 Oct 2017 02:36

periaswamy wrote:If India is not being given a central role of funding these projects (or cannot afford a central role), what makes you so sure that India will have any leverage on these countries down the line? Japan I can understand. But USA and Australia are the same aholes supporting the Pakis currently, and trying to screw India in its own neighbourhood. Why do you think that will change when these countries get more leverage in the neighbourhood. Why is it any better than China in the neighbourhood? At least china has skin in the game when it comes to stability around its borders. What skin in the game does the US have? In fact, they have funded the pakis against India for 50 years precisely because they have no skin in the game.
The reason the US has funded Pak for 50 years, while also helping us, is the same reason India chooses to have relationships with both the US and the Soviet Union. We took financial aid from the US for decades and bought weapons from the Soviet Union. To this day the Pashtuns remember that India chose to forget its vaunted non-alignment when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. (the only two people that remember that damn thing are Phillip and the Taliban) If there's a hole India can't fill, it'd rather the US/Japan/India and itself fill it to China. That's as simple as it gets today. You can't stop US from dealing with Nepal or BD or SL unless you're willing to completely destabilize all of them. Nobody in South America likes the US because of such policies. Joining a coalition helps India gain more influence than she has today. It's about giving those countries alternatives when it comes to dealing with Chinese influence or even getting squeezed between India and China.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 30 Oct 2017 18:47

China to block UN ban on Masood Azhar, yet again - Atul Aneja, The Hindu
Citing a lack of “consensus,” China has said on Monday that it is once again not designating Masood Azhar, head of Pakistan-based militant group Jaish-e-Mohammad, as an international terrorist.

The Chinese position, expressed by its Foreign Ministry spokesperson, Hua Chunying, came ahead of Thursday’s meeting of the 1267 committee of the United Nations Security Council, where Azhar’s status would be discussed.

Xi-Modi’s “excellent” meeting

Chinese President Xi Jinping and Prime Minister Narendra Modi had apparently held an “excellent” meeting at the sidelines of the Brazil-Russia-India-China-South Africa (BRICS) summit in Xiamen in September, raising a slim possibility that Beijing may change tack on Azhar during this month’s UN conclave.

“We have made our position clear many times from this podium. The relevant resolutions of the security council have clear stipulations as to the mandate to the 1267 committee and also clear stipulations when it comes to listing of relevant organisations and individuals,” said Ms. Hua.

She added: “As for listing the application by the relevant country, there are disagreements. China raised the technical hold so as to allow for more time for all parties to deliberate on this matter. To our regret the committee so far has yet to reach a consensus.”
"Pakistan is a victim of terrorism"

Asked whether China was resisting the ban on account of its special ties with Islamabad, Ms. Hua said: “I can understand why you raised this question but cannot side with what you said. China always upholds the principle of objectivity and fairness and we judge this matter on its own merits.”

The spokeswoman stressed that Pakistan itself was a “victim of terrorism.”

“You mentioned Pakistan. Pakistan is also a victim of terrorism and we support Pakistan in countering terrorism in accordance with its own national conditions.”

China had repeatedly imposed a “technical hold” on India’s application for banning Azhar, who has been accused of masterminding last year’s attack on an Indian Air Force base. In January, the United States filed a fresh application, backed by Britain and France after India’s filing on Azhar’s listing had lapsed last year.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Arjun » 30 Oct 2017 19:59

China has been a multiple time, repeat offender on this count! Don't know why India continues to have normal relations with this rogue nation.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 30 Oct 2017 22:17

cheen plans 1000km tunnel to divert tsangpo waters to east turkestan
http://www.news18.com/news/india/china- ... 61861.html

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Oct 2017 22:40

This can give us the excuse to pull out of of WIT saying Indus system is disrupted

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Peregrine » 30 Oct 2017 23:09

Aditya_V wrote:This can give us the excuse to pull out of of WIT saying Indus system is disrupted
Aditya_V Ji :

Sir Ji, I am not aware of the connection between Brahmaputra and Indus. Please advise of the connection.

Cheers Image

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby krithivas » 31 Oct 2017 00:20

^^ It is good that China is executing multiple grandiose white-elephant projects - Three Gorges, OBOR, and now this Brahmaputra river diversion. Bleed to bankruptcy.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby A_Gupta » 31 Oct 2017 01:51

Time to liberate Tibet and Xinjiang :)


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