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Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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tandav
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby tandav » 15 Apr 2017 09:04

Liu! don't you think the parallels between PRC China and Nazi Germany are many. No one denies that China has made massive progress, infact I find Chinese people and their work ethic and culture very very admirable. Chola I would not bring women and their preferences into this conversation. To some extent I find that Chinese women are the dominant gender in most relationships, Children of Chinese/East Asian women and Non Chinese Men are generally brought up as Chinese/East Asian unlike in other cultures where the man's culture dominate. It was also the reason why China was able to withstand the Mongol invasion. Even though the original Chinese men folk were defeated the women folk ensured that the outsiders became insiders by marriage or womb and the Mongols became the Yuan dynasty. Though now China claim the Yuan empire, it would be akin to India claiming Turkey, Iran, Middle East and Central Asian Stans since some Indian dynasties like the Mughals originate there (it may happen later that all these states would willingly accept the India's security guarantees to create peace and join the Indian economic Union shortly).

Some parallels between Nazi Germany and China that I find
1) Nationalistic Jingoism and Victimhood taught in schools
2) Racial Superiority inculcated in citizens from young age
3) Large Industrial Base and much Scientific progress
4) Hard Working Disciplined People who do not question their Government
5) Manufactured claims over territory (Lebensraum)
6) Bullying Smaller Nations around borders

But given that Chinese leadership is supporting Islamic terrorist groups in Pakistan/Afghanistan and Despotic leaders North Korea who are threatening the world with Nuclear weapons using covert and overt support from China. Not that this is any different from the USA but as I see it basically Chinese support to a local strongman makes the supported country a North Korea type dictatorship.

It's well known that Pakistani and North Korean Nuclear weapons and delivery systems are designed, manufactured and supported by China overtly and covertly. Its also well known that China has funded and armed secessionist groups in India for nearly 50 years now. It is due to this support that India's Nuclear Strike policy now considers any Nuclear Strike by Pakistan equivalent to a Chinese Nuclear Strike on India with attendant MAD options invoked. Chinese takeover of Pakistan via OBOR/CPEC implies Pakistan is defacto a Chinese protectorate. A few years down the line Beijing mandarins will be claiming Pakistan as part of China just like they did Tibet in 1950. Japan will go nuclear shortly to counter Chinese nukes in NK. Japan will also consider any nuclear strike by NK on Japan as a Chinese Nuclear strike. I have no doubts that China will get into a war with India shortly and you will perhaps make significant progress just like Germany when it overran Poland or France at the beginning WW-2.

It is up to China to undo the hate/bad feelings that it is promoting among its citizens. To create lasting peace I suggest following.
1) Indo China jointly administerd Tibet peace park where Indians and Chinese can interact peacefully lead the world. Tibet is where there is potential to develop the area as the Watershed of Asia and it requires China to be more statesmanlike and work with India for mutual benefit.
2) An Indo China initiative to reform Islam in Pakistan and elsewhere and create lasting peace. China has good standing in Islamic nations as of today and if China stops arming and funding Radical Islamic states like Pakistan.
3) More Chinese and Indians should interact and exchange ideas somehow (even this forum is a method to create relationships)

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Liu » 16 Apr 2017 09:06

1. nazi German is just 1/20+ of china, by population or landmass,

2.nazi German was the pioneer of the science&tech and had the best tech team,
china has not yet,though it is still a follower on the way to catch up.

3. china has global largest industry base( its yearly industry added~value is larger than USA+japan)while Nazi German had not.
even in its climax of power,the industry might of nazi German was still only 1/3 of USA(in the same league of Soviet and UK).


4.china does not provide weapons to rebels in northeast india,otherwise those rebel would has heavy weapons such as tankers,cannons and missles.
During cold war(1960s),chinese military industry aleady could arm 500+ divisions every year and stocked enough weapons for WW III.
obviously china would rather leave those weapons(canons,tankers,rifles…)decayed in stock than gift them rebels in india.


5. pakistanion nuke might be connected with china.
but noko's nuke programme is opposed by china.


6. china might be interested to jointly administrate assam with india, imstead of tibet.

Suraj
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Suraj » 16 Apr 2017 09:28

Liu wrote:6. china might be interested to jointly administrate assam with india, imstead of tibet.

How sweet. Let's see how well the joint administration of Tibet by India and China goes first, though.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 16 Apr 2017 10:42

Liu wrote:4.china does not provide weapons to rebels in northeast india,otherwise those rebel would has heavy weapons such as tankers,cannons and missles. During cold war(1960s),chinese military industry aleady could arm 500+ divisions every year and stocked enough weapons for WW III. obviously china would rather leave those weapons(canons,tankers,rifles…)decayed in stock than gift them rebels in india.

China does not provide weapons to insurgents in India's North East, did you say? This is as good as saying Pakistan is not a terrorist country. Oh, I forgot. China does in fact claim that Masood Azhar is innocent, right? There is enormous evidence contrary to your statement, Mr. Liu. And, your argument is also funny to prove your point. A circular argument based purely on your assumption. Just funny, like how the Chinese foreign office spokespersons build & explain their logic when questioned!!

Liu
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Liu » 16 Apr 2017 11:26

SSridhar wrote:
Liu wrote:4.china does not provide weapons to rebels in northeast india,otherwise those rebel would has heavy weapons such as tankers,cannons and missles. During cold war(1960s),chinese military industry aleady could arm 500+ divisions every year and stocked enough weapons for WW III. obviously china would rather leave those weapons(canons,tankers,rifles…)decayed in stock than gift them rebels in india.

China does not provide weapons to insurgents in India's North East, did you say? This is as good as saying Pakistan is not a terrorist country. Oh, I forgot. China does in fact claim that Masood Azhar is innocent, right? There is enormous evidence contrary to your statement, Mr. Liu. And, your argument is also funny to prove your point. A circular argument based purely on your assumption. Just funny, like how the Chinese foreign office spokespersons build & explain their logic when questioned!!


well,show some your evidence,ok?
aren't they some ak47 'made in china' so called?


china indeed exports/donated many ak47 ,especoally when mao ruled china.

some of them might be out of the control of the governments or revolutionits and are in the hand of rebels ,drug traffickers or somalia pirates.




if china were to have india rebels as the proxy, india rebels would not be armed so poorly as now.


pls google the United Wa State Army (佤邦联合军).
it is the remains of Burma communists and acknowledged as a legal armed force by burma govnment.

outside china,the united wa state army might be the sole non_government armed force with the semi_official support from china .




https://timgsa.baidu.com/timg?image&qua ... 506bdb.jpg


https://timgsa.baidu.com/timg?image&qua ... 312255.jpg

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby manjgu » 16 Apr 2017 12:59

not so poorly armed !!? what are u expecting they will be flying JF 17's?

Liu
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Liu » 16 Apr 2017 15:00

manjgu wrote:not so poorly armed !!? what are u expecting they will be flying JF 17's?

as i said, During cold warchina produced millions of rifles,thousands of jets, canons , tankers and other armor vechicles, which are enough to arm hundreds of divisions.


those weapons might be outdated to PLA,but still can upgrade indian rebels much.(just imagine what would indian rebel do,if they were armed with canons&tankers)

but china now would rather leave those weapons decayed on stock,rathet gift indian rebels.

nam
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 16 Apr 2017 15:40

Liu wrote:
6. china might be interested to jointly administrate assam with india, imstead of tibet.


I would actually love to invite the Liberation Army in to Assam. It is a bit difficult to go back up the Himalayas, but it is quite easy to come down.

Since there is no plans to go back, so it should it be alright.

When are they coming?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSharma » 16 Apr 2017 16:22

Liu wrote:
6. china might be interested to jointly administrate assam with india, imstead of tibet.


this is just lovely.

make an imaginary demand then cede it to get something real.

india should learn to do this too.

we should jointly administer tibet with china

and xingiang with afghanistan

nam
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 16 Apr 2017 16:25

SSharma wrote:we should jointly administer tibet with china

and xingiang with afghanistan


We should propose joint administration of Bejing.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSharma » 16 Apr 2017 16:29

nam wrote:
SSharma wrote:we should jointly administer tibet with china

and xingiang with afghanistan


We should propose joint administration of Bejing.


i totally agree with the sentiment, go for places with 0 issues going on.

lets jointly administer guangzhou or something

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 16 Apr 2017 18:24

Liu wrote:
SSridhar wrote:China does not provide weapons to insurgents in India's North East, did you say? This is as good as saying Pakistan is not a terrorist country. Oh, I forgot. China does in fact claim that Masood Azhar is innocent, right? There is enormous evidence contrary to your statement, Mr. Liu. And, your argument is also funny to prove your point. A circular argument based purely on your assumption. Just funny, like how the Chinese foreign office spokespersons build & explain their logic when questioned!!


well,show some your evidence,ok?
aren't they some ak47 'made in china' so called?
. . .

Oh . . . don't put on this face of injured innocence. Evidence is aplenty. But, what are piddly AK47s etc when you can transfer strategic nuclear weapons, their designs, HEU, Pu extraction plants, TNWs and weapon delivery systems to all rogue nations? Or, is that what you are trying to tell me?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DavidD » 17 Apr 2017 02:38

tandav wrote:Liu! don't you think the parallels between PRC China and Nazi Germany are many. No one denies that China has made massive progress, infact I find Chinese people and their work ethic and culture very very admirable. Chola I would not bring women and their preferences into this conversation. To some extent I find that Chinese women are the dominant gender in most relationships, Children of Chinese/East Asian women and Non Chinese Men are generally brought up as Chinese/East Asian unlike in other cultures where the man's culture dominate. It was also the reason why China was able to withstand the Mongol invasion. Even though the original Chinese men folk were defeated the women folk ensured that the outsiders became insiders by marriage or womb and the Mongols became the Yuan dynasty. Though now China claim the Yuan empire, it would be akin to India claiming Turkey, Iran, Middle East and Central Asian Stans since some Indian dynasties like the Mughals originate there (it may happen later that all these states would willingly accept the India's security guarantees to create peace and join the Indian economic Union shortly).

Some parallels between Nazi Germany and China that I find
1) Nationalistic Jingoism and Victimhood taught in schools
2) Racial Superiority inculcated in citizens from young age
3) Large Industrial Base and much Scientific progress
4) Hard Working Disciplined People who do not question their Government
5) Manufactured claims over territory (Lebensraum)
6) Bullying Smaller Nations around borders

But given that Chinese leadership is supporting Islamic terrorist groups in Pakistan/Afghanistan and Despotic leaders North Korea who are threatening the world with Nuclear weapons using covert and overt support from China. Not that this is any different from the USA but as I see it basically Chinese support to a local strongman makes the supported country a North Korea type dictatorship.

It's well known that Pakistani and North Korean Nuclear weapons and delivery systems are designed, manufactured and supported by China overtly and covertly. Its also well known that China has funded and armed secessionist groups in India for nearly 50 years now. It is due to this support that India's Nuclear Strike policy now considers any Nuclear Strike by Pakistan equivalent to a Chinese Nuclear Strike on India with attendant MAD options invoked. Chinese takeover of Pakistan via OBOR/CPEC implies Pakistan is defacto a Chinese protectorate. A few years down the line Beijing mandarins will be claiming Pakistan as part of China just like they did Tibet in 1950. Japan will go nuclear shortly to counter Chinese nukes in NK. Japan will also consider any nuclear strike by NK on Japan as a Chinese Nuclear strike. I have no doubts that China will get into a war with India shortly and you will perhaps make significant progress just like Germany when it overran Poland or France at the beginning WW-2.

It is up to China to undo the hate/bad feelings that it is promoting among its citizens. To create lasting peace I suggest following.
1) Indo China jointly administerd Tibet peace park where Indians and Chinese can interact peacefully lead the world. Tibet is where there is potential to develop the area as the Watershed of Asia and it requires China to be more statesmanlike and work with India for mutual benefit.
2) An Indo China initiative to reform Islam in Pakistan and elsewhere and create lasting peace. China has good standing in Islamic nations as of today and if China stops arming and funding Radical Islamic states like Pakistan.
3) More Chinese and Indians should interact and exchange ideas somehow (even this forum is a method to create relationships)


1) There are a lot of similarities, the National Socialists' method of nation building was quite impressive and there's a lot to learn from them, but what they did really isn't that much different from the methods of Imperial China, which is probably the more likely source of inspiration for the current Chinese leaders. I mean, things like cultivating national identity, supporting education and intellectual development, espousing a culture of hard work, and seeking to establish dominance over regional rivals is as old as the rise of imperialism.

2) I have no doubt that there will be no war between India and China in the foreseeable future. The very idea of a sustained assault across the Himalayas makes me laugh. Also, the hate is only from India toward China. From what I can gather from Chinese message boards, most Chinese know little about India and either look down on Indians based on stereotypes or are indifferent. The most significant conflict between China and India since...ever? was a brief war in '62, why would the Chinese hate India anyway?

3) Pakistan is a problem for China too, and I think CPEC is one of the ways China intends to secularize Pakistan. After all, it's mostly the destitute who become terrorists, and society naturally secularize once it becomes wealthy. Working with India on this is a non-starter at this point though. I'm afraid any sign of Indian influence would have the exact opposite effect in Pakistan.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 17 Apr 2017 03:11

DavidD wrote:2) I have no doubt that there will be no war between India and China in the foreseeable future. The very idea of a sustained assault across the Himalayas makes me laugh. Also, the hate is only from India toward China. From what I can gather from Chinese message boards, most Chinese know little about India and either look down on Indians based on stereotypes or are indifferent. The most significant conflict between China and India since...ever? was a brief war in '62, why would the Chinese hate India anyway?



Given that India have handed over nuke plants, warhead design, nuke material, missiles & tech to make missiles to a crazy country like Vietnam, which carry out terror attack on Chinese civilians and drive cross border attacks on Chinese forces using Buddhism as rallying point , all under a umbrella of nuclear blackmail....

The Chinese keep talking about a Nov 26, 2008 incident in Shanghai, where 10 Vietnamese went on a rampage killing 166 people.

I don't get it. why do Chinese hate India so much...

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 17 Apr 2017 06:46

DavidD wrote:3) Pakistan is a problem for China too, and I think CPEC is one of the ways China intends to secularize Pakistan. After all, it's mostly the destitute who become terrorists, and society naturally secularize once it becomes wealthy. Working with India on this is a non-starter at this point though. I'm afraid any sign of Indian influence would have the exact opposite effect in Pakistan.


:rotfl: This is the most fantastic reason I have heard yet! The Chinese spokespersons bring mirth in an otherwise dull and serious world!

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby tandav » 17 Apr 2017 09:16

SSridhar wrote:
DavidD wrote:3) Pakistan is a problem for China too, and I think CPEC is one of the ways China intends to secularize Pakistan. After all, it's mostly the destitute who become terrorists, and society naturally secularize once it becomes wealthy. Working with India on this is a non-starter at this point though. I'm afraid any sign of Indian influence would have the exact opposite effect in Pakistan.


:rotfl: This is the most fantastic reason I have heard yet! The Chinese spokespersons bring mirth in an otherwise dull and serious world!


Actually I like Dan's new take on things and it should be logically developed.

Firstly the destitute do not become terrorists its only the radicalized elite who shape such activities and it is this radicalized elite that are being controlled / supported by China and I for one welcome China's wisdom in taking steps to mend its previous stupidity in choosing Pakistan's friendship over India.

To secularize Pakistan: All China has to do is to support India in taking over POK as per UN resolutions and support 1 India policy. Since Pakistan is a artificial colonial / Abrahamic construct to keep India and China from progressing. China should help India take control in secularizing Pakistani provinces such as Balochistan and Sindh. Deradicalizing Pakistan's mullah led population and helping merge it with the Indian Economic union. Remove Chinese nuclear weapons from Pakistan or look on as India also retaliates by posting its Nuclear forces in the Indo-China sea.

Imagine the possibilies! We ship troublemakers from Pakistan to the Indo-China jointly managed Tibet peace park / reeducation camps where these misguided radicals can help provide hard labor to help the entire subcontinent. Deradicalization via exposure to Yoga, Tai Chi and meditation in these camps.

China has to repay India for supporting it back in WW2 by fighting for Chinese freedom by defeating the Japanese, supporting it at the U.N security council. You will also note that even after Han genocide of Tibetians, India has not armed tibetian groups to kill Chinese and has always tied a line of peace and understanding without violence. You will also have to educate you population not to look down on India, its frankly racist and will come back to bite you.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DavidD » 17 Apr 2017 12:17

Well, CPEC is going full speed ahead right now, roads, power stations, and all sorts of infrastructure is popping up everywhere. I guess we'll see if it works soon!

Karthik S
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Karthik S » 17 Apr 2017 12:58

DavidD wrote:Well, CPEC is going full speed ahead right now, roads, power stations, and all sorts of infrastructure is popping up everywhere. I guess we'll see if it works soon!


I always wondered, may be you can give some insight. You do realize PoK is Indian territory. What is Chinese plan if India one day takes back PoK one way or another.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DavidD » 17 Apr 2017 13:06

Karthik S wrote:
DavidD wrote:Well, CPEC is going full speed ahead right now, roads, power stations, and all sorts of infrastructure is popping up everywhere. I guess we'll see if it works soon!


I always wondered, may be you can give some insight. You do realize PoK is Indian territory. What is Chinese plan if India one day takes back PoK one way or another.


Territories are fluid, they've been changing for as long as humans have staked claims to them. China doesn't so much as care who controls it, long as it allows China access to the Indian Ocean. Of course, if India were to wage war to control it, it'll complicate this access, so China would try to prevent it. If India one day succeeds though, then I suspect China would try to work with India to allow it continued access.

In any case, that one day is pretty far away if it ever comes, trying to see that far into the future is just a mind exercise.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Lisa » 17 Apr 2017 13:11

DavidD,

Do you agree with a One India policy?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 17 Apr 2017 15:39

DavidD wrote:Well, CPEC is going full speed ahead right now, roads, power stations, and all sorts of infrastructure is popping up everywhere. I guess we'll see if it works soon!

Oh, the ROTFL is not about the speed of implementation of CPEC, but about the excuse you offered for CPEC. China comes out with funny excuses expecting the listeners to swallow them! It is always amusing to hear the Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman and woman when they offer inane excuses whenever questioned a little bit more than they are usually accustomed to!!

Oh, about the infrastructure 'popping up everywhere', what will poor Pakistan do with all that? The whole CPEC will be another Sri Lanka type Han-occupation venture (Hambanatota Port where no ships call, Mattala Airport which operates just one flight per day (that too at best) since c. 2013, Media Centre which no media house has occupied and now the 15000 Acre Industrial Zone & the Magampura Port). May be Pakistan can sustain a little bit more pressure than Sri Lanka before completely caving in, or can it?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 17 Apr 2017 15:55

India should not use Dalai Lama to undermine us, says China Foreign Ministry - PTI

China should not use Pakistan, Masood Azhar, ISI, Pakistani Army, the insurgents in North East India, multinational fora and 'String of Pearls' to undermine India.

Liu, DavidD et al: Is there anything wrong with such a counter statement?

China said on Monday that the recent visit of the Dalai Lama to Arunachal Pradesh had a “negative impact” on Sino-India ties and New Delhi should not use the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader to “undermine” Beijing’s interests.

“Dalai Lama’s visit to Arunachal Pradesh had a negative impact on India-China ties. India should observe commitment on Tibet-related issues and should not use the Dalai Lama to undermine China’s interests,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang said.

He said it was only in this way that “we can create a good atmosphere for the settlement of the boundary question”.

The Chinese spokesman’s remarks came in response to India’s Ministry of External Affairs statement on Friday that there was no change in New Delhi’s position on Tibet being part of China. External Affairs Ministry spokesman Gopal Baglay has said India will continue to seek a fair and mutually acceptable solution to the vexed boundary issue.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 17 Apr 2017 16:08

It is wonderful that the Chinese are building good roads as CPEC. Soon the Pakis will start moving in to Xinjiang illegally, after all it is just a drive away.

Pakis are famous for illegal migration. They make up most of the Syrians fleeing in to Europe.

Congratulations China, for your future problems.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 18 Apr 2017 07:03

China scales down offensive against India - Saibal Dasgupta, ToI
At least three Indian ministers, including foreign minister Sushma Swaraj, are expected to visit China to attend the upcoming BRICS summit in the country's Xiamen city. The visits come amid repeated Chinese warning that bilateral relationship had been badly damaged by the recent visit of the Dalai Lama to Arunachal Pradesh.

The official website of BRICS has put up a detailed schedule of meetings by ministers of Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. As a member, India is expected to attend all the meetings at the ministerial level from June, sources said.

PM Narendra Modi is expected to attend the final summit in September. Finance minister Arun Jaitley, commerce minister Nirmala Sitharaman and power minister Piyush Goyal are expected to visit China to attend minister-level meetings of BRICS and the meeting of its financing agency, the National Development Bank, in June and July. NSA Ajit Doval is also due to attend a security related meeting of BRICS, sources said.

In fact, China is already trying to soften its tone towards India and gradually take the focus away from the Dalai Lama controversy. China is keen to persuade India to participate in an international conference on its One Belt, One Road (OBOR) programme in May, and make a success of the BRICS meetings.

China is almost desperate to ensure Indian presence in the Belt and Road Forum, which will be attended by heads of states from 20 countries. Beijing also expects British PM Teressa May to attend. Most of the other attendees will be leaders of countries like Pakistan which depend heavily on China to build infrastructure. India's presence will add much credibility to the conference.

India is reluctant to join because one section of OBOR, the China Pakistan Economic Corridor passes through Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, and threatens Indian claim over the area. New Delhi feels China is trying to legitimize Pakistan's claim over the area by constructing infrastructure in the disputed area.

Sources said India is unlikely to participate in the forum until China agrees to make a clear statement that it does not support Pakistan's claim over the disputed PoK area. The name, China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) itself gives credibility to Pakistan's illegal control over the disputed area, Indian sources said.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Liu » 18 Apr 2017 10:14

tandav wrote:
SSridhar wrote:
:rotfl: This is the most fantastic reason I have heard yet! The Chinese spokespersons bring mirth in an otherwise dull and serious world!


Actually I like Dan's new take on things and it should be logically developed.

Firstly the destitute do not become terrorists its only the radicalized elite who shape such activities and it is this radicalized elite that are being controlled / supported by China and I for one welcome China's wisdom in taking steps to mend its previous stupidity in choosing Pakistan's friendship over India.

To secularize Pakistan: All China has to do is to support India in taking over POK as per UN resolutions and support 1 India policy. Since Pakistan is a artificial colonial / Abrahamic construct to keep India and China from progressing. China should help India take control in secularizing Pakistani provinces such as Balochistan and Sindh. Deradicalizing Pakistan's mullah led population and helping merge it with the Indian Economic union. Remove Chinese nuclear weapons from Pakistan or look on as India also retaliates by posting its Nuclear forces in the Indo-China sea.

Imagine the possibilies! We ship troublemakers from Pakistan to the Indo-China jointly managed Tibet peace park / reeducation camps where these misguided radicals can help provide hard labor to help the entire subcontinent. Deradicalization via exposure to Yoga, Tai Chi and meditation in these camps.

China has to repay India for supporting it back in WW2 by fighting for Chinese freedom by defeating the Japanese, supporting it at the U.N security council. You will also note that even after Han genocide of Tibetians, India has not armed tibetian groups to kill Chinese and has always tied a line of peace and understanding without violence. You will also have to educate you population not to look down on India, its frankly racist and will come back to bite you.


there is/was no genocide of tibetans.

tibetan's polulation is 2~times more than it was when PLA marched into tibet.


Tibetan now have a higher/better life quality than their foerign neighbours including indians.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby darshhan » 18 Apr 2017 11:04

Karthik S wrote:
DavidD wrote:Well, CPEC is going full speed ahead right now, roads, power stations, and all sorts of infrastructure is popping up everywhere. I guess we'll see if it works soon!


I always wondered, may be you can give some insight. You do realize PoK is Indian territory. What is Chinese plan if India one day takes back PoK one way or another.


These roads, power plants and other chinese developed infra would fall into hands of India. That is exactly what will happen. Not a single penny would be paid to China. Chinese personnel will be asked to leave(those who survive the intense bombing campaign). These are our Spoils of war.

But then China sure doesnt mind. From venezuela to Sri Lanka, they have a history of making bad investments. Probably the chinese taxpayer doesn't mind as well. Who are we to complain?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 18 Apr 2017 11:12

pakistan will export terrorism and let china ask them to "control" it .. and payments for CPEC to be deferred in lieu of that .

it is interesting that the pakistani civil government has no idea of how the payments / money coming in and going out . its as if some one takes over your land and do what they want to do with it. obviously the beneficiary is the miitary and china is helping the military to use the rest of the country or whatever is left. In this situation china may not need repayment as it will take up raw material resources in lieu for payment , and get a strategic advantage as well. the pakistani militay will soon be reduced to chowkidar status as the chinese military takes over ! :mrgreen:
Going by china s record they will re write the rules for good terrorist / bad terrorist . India can expect its usual supply of cross border terrorism with better arms and training.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Karthik S » 18 Apr 2017 11:20

darshhan wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
I always wondered, may be you can give some insight. You do realize PoK is Indian territory. What is Chinese plan if India one day takes back PoK one way or another.


These roads, power plants and other chinese developed infra would fall into hands of India. That is exactly what will happen. Not a single penny would be paid to China. Chinese personnel will be asked to leave(those who survive the intense bombing campaign). These are our Spoils of war.

But then China sure doesnt mind. From venezuela to Sri Lanka, they have a history of making bad investments. Probably the chinese taxpayer doesn't mind as well. Who are we to complain?


That's our perspective, I wanted to see theirs. You see his cocky reply for that query.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby darshhan » 18 Apr 2017 11:25

By the way all this CPEC, OBOR etc are nothing but scam. A scam to put employ behemoth chinese construction firms to work. To develop chinese infra, the chinese construction industry scaled up like never before in the history of the world employing tens of millions. Now there aren't enough contracts or projects in domestic landscape leading to lack of harmony. So these CPEC or OBOR type projects are being floated to provide contracts for chinese construction companies, supply opportunities for chinese vendors and job security for chinese workers. So far so good.

But here is the catch. Just completing a project doesnt mean anything. The power plant that you construct in Karachi or gwadar actually has to give you returns to justify your investments. They will give you returns only when your client actually has the buying power( in this case pakistani govt and its people ). If they dont have that buying power, then you will end up having a lemon in your hands, just like hambantota port in Sri Lanka or the venezuelan debts financed by chinese govt. Only this time it will be much worse. At this point China will transform into another East India Company to squeeze pakistanis.

At the end of the day CPEC and OBOR are nothing but giant ponzi schemes.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby darshhan » 18 Apr 2017 11:45

My request to all the posters including Chinese. Can someone provide the Detailed Feasibility Report (DFR)/ Detailed Project Report(DPR) for CPEC/OBOR ?

That is if they exist.

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Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Peregrine » 18 Apr 2017 14:29

darshhan wrote:My request to all the posters including Chinese. Can someone provide the Detailed Feasibility Report (DFR)/ Detailed Project Report(DPR) for CPEC/OBOR ?

That is if they exist.
darshhan Ji :
These Detailed Feasibility Report (DFR)/ Detailed Project Report(DPR) for CPEC/OBOR
Sir Ji, These detailed reports - AFAIK - HAVE NOT EVEN BEEN PROVIDED TO THE CLAPISTANI PARLIAMENT.
Cheers Image Image

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bheeshma » 18 Apr 2017 14:34

https://www.dawn.com/news/1327740/most- ... oad-summit

Most major Western leaders to skip China's New Silk Road summit
REUTERSPUBLISHED ABOUT 2 HOURS AGO

Only one leader of a big Western country is attending China's most important diplomatic event of the year, a summit next month on Chinese President Xi Jinping's New Silk Road strategy, as China's foreign minister denied it had been snubbed

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 18 Apr 2017 15:53

Liu wrote:there is/was no genocide of tibetans.

tibetan's polulation is 2~times more than it was when PLA marched into tibet.


Tibetan now have a higher/better life quality than their foerign neighbours including indians.

Liu, I agree that there was no genocide of Tibetans, unlike genocide of Han Chinese by Mao and his coterie during Great Leap, Cultural Revolution etc. which runs into a few dozen millions. No, that was not the case in Tibet. There has only been some large-scale killings of Tibetans, forced exile, imprisonment without charges, disappearance etc which are normal in China anyway. But, more than that, when the Tibetan monks and thinkers are committing suicide through self-immolation (unlike the Uyghurs who also commit suicide but with suicide vests, taking along with them a bunch of Han Chinese too), where is the need for a genocide?

By the way, the '2-times' growth of population is the Han Chinese claim, is it not? Do the Tibetans agree with that? No, they don't. They, in fact, claim a decrease in population. We need to know the facts because joint administration of Tibet needs complete information, doesn't it?

And, while we are at it, thanks for speaking the truth about PLA marching into Tibet.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby tandav » 18 Apr 2017 17:18

Liu. Why doesn't China/PLA accept India's leadership and friendship rather than fund radical states like Pakistan and NoKo. Why do you guys try to usurp Dharmic nations/civilizations like Tibet and that can be far more harmoniously developed under the Indian system of governance. I for one would love for Indians to emulate the Chinese work ethic from your folks.

In the Indo-China Tibet peace park, we can jointly guarantee that Chinese guests will still have visa free travel to Tibet and be accorded the highest respect. Atithi devo Bhava is in Dharmic blood everywhere. Protecting and spreading Dharma/Dharmic is India's core interest and throughout history Dharmic civilization encompasses all territory from Mongolia to North and Antartica to South, Afghanistan in West to Vietnam / Philippines and Japan in East with India the fountainhead of inclusiveness. You should do some Tai Chi a derivative of yoga to gain inner peace.

One concern I have is that the massive stockpile of weapons that China has built can one day be used to kill Chinese people themselves. Even today there are sections of the PLA that can rise up against Beijing like it has happened the past. How should India help in securing your people?

As far as being Tibet being more developed than Neighboring India, what is the reason why there are many Tibetians who choose to live in India and flee the paradise that is Tibet under the PLA?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kmkraoind » 18 Apr 2017 22:33

China won't sit idle if India takes protectionist measures: Beijing media - Economic Times

India should resist the temptation of resorting to "protectionism" to shield local mobile phone makers against Chinese smartphone firms, China's official media said today warning that Beijing could take countermeasures against any such move.

The Indian firms are seeking government action to ease the pain of their defeat to Chinese rivals, an article in the state-run Global Times said referring to pleas by the mobile phone makers that government should raise supplementary levies against handsets from Chinese companies.

"As for China, the Chinese government is unlikely to sit idly while India harms the interests of Chinese companies. We cannot rule out the possibility that China will take countermeasures if India takes unfair measures to protect its home grown companies from international competition," the article said.


Now China is blowing HOT.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Cosmo_R » 18 Apr 2017 22:34

China says CPEC has 'no direct link' with Kashmir issue

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 237372.cms

By the same token closer relations all round with Taiwan need not be political and have no direct link to 'One China'

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Cosmo_R » 18 Apr 2017 22:36

@tandav^^^ +1

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Karthik S » 18 Apr 2017 22:47



It's funny how many threats PLA issues every day to other countries. Wonder even if they can remember the number of threats they give out.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby VKumar » 18 Apr 2017 23:14

During the Vietnam War, China used to issue a ' final' warning to USA almost every other day. This is Chinese way of threatening. Chinese and Pakis have similar mindset, exaggerate and lie.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby rsangram » 19 Apr 2017 07:09

Chinese just got full control of the entire South China Sea region, in exchange for "helping" the US to "set North Korea" right.

The Chinese themselves engineered the North Korean crisis by secretly plotting with the North Koreans to up the nuclear ante. Then when North Korea threatened to test long range missiles capable of hitting the US and a nuke, they proposed to the "nuke terrified" Americans lead by Trump, its not easy, but they will see what they can do about dissipating this North Korean threat to the US, in exchange, of course for full control of the South China Sea and complete future continued American hands off on CPEC.

And all of a sudden, Chinese are no longer villians in the US, they are no longer currency manipulators, no longer "robbers" of American jobs, no longer "stealing" the Americans blind, no longer a destabilizing force in the world.

There is full consensus now, just like there is and has always been about supporting PAkistan.........across the political spectrum, the one thing that Democrats and Republicans can completely still agree on, and mutually masturbate on.......which is that "Chyna.....now is good, baby".


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