Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 15 Jul 2017 11:53

The Indian media, in online news portals, tends to either copy the Chinese narrative verbatim (e.g. according to Global times/Chinese expert etc)
or have correspondents attempting to write independently, but with inadequate knowledge of the facts.
We at BRF can influence option by commenting online. Often good comments get a lot of readership. That's because half the comments tend to
be trolls (vicious pro/anti Modi comments) while most of the others are uninformative one liners.

The significant online news portals in order of importance are: (I've checked rankings, no of comments, following etc)
- timesofindia.indiatimes.com
- indiatoday.indiatoday.in
- ndtv.com
- thehindu.com (NDTV & Hindu need the most attention for obvious reasons)
- zeenews.com
- firstpost,com
- scroll.in
- oneindia.com

Its relatively easy to set up news alerts on China/ Pak on our cell phones - the stories will invariably be from the above portals. If each of us makes just 1 comment a day, and rebuts one, it will impact both readers and editorial opinion (since they see which comments get the most likes).
Do change log in ID's periodically.
Its a lot easier to do than changing wiki.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 15 Jul 2017 13:48

SSridhar wrote:
TKiran wrote:Han get their spines soaked with sweat when I argue that India is a challenger. They just can't digest.
TK, ordinary Han folks may not yet recognize the Indian challenge because the CPC (or the Politburo, more particularly) has not yet decided to indoctrinate them with the 'new threat'. For the sake of public consumption, the CPC continues to dismiss India as inconsequential. The Chinese may even hope that such a position demoralizes India. That's why it continues to equate India with Pakistan (yesterday's FO briefing, for example, where the Chinese spokesman said "India and Pakistan are two important nations of South Asia") But, common sense demands that the Chinese leadership are well aware of who the future threat is. Of course, tactically, they have to tackle the US, protect the First Island Chain from being breached, develop capability to take the war into Western Pacific, subdue Japan, establish Indo-China Sea as its lake, kill any emerging alliance against it etc. But, make no mistake, the Leadership is not shutting its eyes to the looming Indian threat.

Please listen from 35 minutes onwards. https://www.thefelderreport.com/2017/07 ... ro-puzzle/

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 15 Jul 2017 18:32

Not that it matters, but an European view...

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 769_1.html

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 15 Jul 2017 18:43

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... vYbUP.html
Mehbooba Mufti meets Rajnath, accuses China of meddling in Kashmir
Could this be true

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 15 Jul 2017 18:47

Iyersan wrote:http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... vYbUP.html
Mehbooba Mufti meets Rajnath, accuses China of meddling in Kashmir
Could this be true

ALERT "She said the above to the newspapers after visiting Rajnath today".... there is serious stuff brewing. If china has started meddling in Kashmir why hasn't Tibet freedom movement been propagated

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 15 Jul 2017 18:53

There will be no war, till we want one. Chola is right of course, but Indians are not ready for war for sure, unless imposed upon them by China. The media in China is toning down a bit, but it means like in Siachen will have to dig in and stay put for both sides, which both do in any case so nothing new.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Jul 2017 18:57

Iyersan wrote:http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... vYbUP.html
Mehbooba Mufti meets Rajnath, accuses China of meddling in Kashmir
Could this be true

I have been intrigued by the IS symbols appearing lately in J&K as well as the apparent split in the Hizbul Mujahideen group with Zakir Musa openly threatening to behead Hurriyat leaders and the latest when slain HM terrorists were ordered not to be wrapped in Pakistan flag by some gun-toting terrorists who claimed to allege to the IS. Definitely, IS is *NOT* present in J&K to carry out such types of operations. I tend to believe that it could be a false flag type operation. It could well be that while the ISI/LeT/JeM are behind AQIS, the Chinese Ministry of State Security could be behind the 'apparent' IS presence. Ms. Mufti should be taken seriously, at least on this issue.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 15 Jul 2017 19:03

Iyersan wrote:http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... vYbUP.html
Mehbooba Mufti meets Rajnath, accuses China of meddling in Kashmir
Could this be true

I said this a week ago.

The sudden ratcheting up of the cashmere issue and attack on the Hindu pilgrims is too much of a coincidence. Mehbooba Mufti has spilled the beans.

she is now fearful of the genie has been unleashed from its bottle and its all her doing.

stupid lady who thought that she could play with the big bad boys from across the border. The hans are equally apprehensive of losing face and that would result in a very severe loss of influence for them among the asian nations that the hans so desperately seek to leverage for their moth eaten belt and pant scheme.

More bad is to come. Rocket launchers seem to have made their appearance into the valley. A supply chain has also been activated, it seems.

Let us wait and watch.

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 15 Jul 2017 19:06

chetak wrote:
Iyersan wrote:http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... vYbUP.html
Mehbooba Mufti meets Rajnath, accuses China of meddling in Kashmir
Could this be true
I said this a week ago.

The sudden ratcheting up of the cashmere issue and attack on the Hindu pilgrims is too much of a coincidence. Mehbooba Mufti has spilled the beans.

she is now fearful of the genie has been unleashed from its bottle and its all her doing.

stupid lady who thought that she could play with the big bad boys from across the border.

More bad is to come. Rocket launchers seem to have made their appearance into the valley. A supply chain has also been activated, it seems.

Let us wait and watch.

News report of chemical weapons in the hands of terrorist orgs?
GOI thru intel must know this. I have a sinister feeling regarding the all party meet. Why was it called?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 15 Jul 2017 19:15

Iyersan wrote:
chetak wrote:
I said this a week ago.

The sudden ratcheting up of the cashmere issue and attack on the Hindu pilgrims is too much of a coincidence. Mehbooba Mufti has spilled the beans.

she is now fearful of the genie has been unleashed from its bottle and its all her doing.

stupid lady who thought that she could play with the big bad boys from across the border.

More bad is to come. Rocket launchers seem to have made their appearance into the valley. A supply chain has also been activated, it seems.

Let us wait and watch.
News report of chemical weapons in the hands of terrorist orgs?
GOI thru intel must know this. I have a sinister feeling regarding the all party meet. Why was it called?

chemical weapons are too far up the escalation ladder.

expertise is needed to deploy it and also contain the damage by localising the effect.

The big boys like russia, US and the hans will stomp very hard on the pakis irrespective of who has deployed it. International sanctions are the very least that can be expected as well as withdrawal of ALL aid.

this is one genie best left in the bottle.

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 15 Jul 2017 19:16

https://mobile.twitter.com/chellaney/st ... 1987635200
TERROR: China has long aided Indian insurgents. It harbors ULFA chief. Now it has "begun interfering" in Jammu & Kashmir says chief minister
5:19 PM · Jul 15, 2017

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 15 Jul 2017 19:22

Chinese potential interference is a given with their presence in PoK and the CPEC dreams through it. I am sure the center is aware of it and now the state of J&K is allowed to air the concerns. This also gives Mufti some breathing space.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 15 Jul 2017 19:34

twitter

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Jul 2017 19:43

Any chemical weapon attack would elicit a nuclear strike from India.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 15 Jul 2017 19:47

The standoff in Sikkim (Doklam) will have its counter reaction in J&K via Chinese proxies. So the action has shifted to the western front as it is a stalemate on the eastern front for the time being.

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 15 Jul 2017 20:02

China says no room for negotiations on Sikkim standoff, adds Ladakh to dispute with India
http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... Grn7I.html

The commentary by the official Xinhua news agency warned that India could face “embarrassment” if it does not withdraw its border troops and sought to add yet another dimension to the face-off by bringing in the Ladakh region and linking it to Pakistan.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 15 Jul 2017 20:06

Bade wrote:Not that it matters, but an European view...

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 769_1.html

He has been critical of China for a while now. I dont discount his views, I think we should cultivate/publicize more such views in the western world.

In his remarks, Mr. Ryszard Czarnecki spoke about the China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), a project comprising a network of railways, roads and pipelines that would connect Pakistan's port city of Gwadar in the province of Balochistan, with the Chinese city of Kashgar in landlocked XUAR. He highlighted the manner in which this project was being constructed against the will of the local population in Balochistan, leading to the heavy presence of Pakistani military and police apparatus in the area. While this security deployment was apparently for the safety of Chinese personnel and infrastructure, it had resulted in a situation where the human rights of the local population were being frequently violated. The grievances of the local Baloch community were being completely ignored, and anything interpreted as dissent was being crushed. Moreover, the Pakistani Army was said to be engaged in forceful evacuation of people from their traditional homesteads and farmlands in several areas of Gilgit-Baltistan and Balochistan, so as to make land available for the CPEC. Czarnecki highlighted that the failure of the international community to intervene against the Pakistan army in the areas proposed for the CPEC, would result in the escalation of human rights violations of innocent civilians in Pakistan.

https://www.telegraphindia.com/pressrel ... gress.html

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 15 Jul 2017 20:12

Bade wrote:Chinese potential interference is a given with their presence in PoK and the CPEC dreams through it. I am sure the center is aware of it and now the state of J&K is allowed to air the concerns. This also gives Mufti some breathing space.

It has been made to take the pressure off the pakis.

We have clamped down on most cross border trade as well as almost all visas.

We must now stop the pakis from using the multiple entry long term SAARC media and some eminent person type visas that has already been issued. Just cancel all such visas and treat each as a new case by case application.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 15 Jul 2017 20:12

Tibetan flag at Tsang Po Indonesian renaming of SCS areas Vietnam extending oil exploration rights to India Philippines marking out its offshore oil fields India US Japan practicing hunting chinese in the IOR.

And what support does China have? A failing Pakistan and that old Maoist Neville Maxwell. Perhaps it's china that ought to be embarrassed

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 15 Jul 2017 20:22

There was a poster (RishiRishi IIRC) who told that BR is accessible in China. Is it possible to make a China specific thread for Chinese. Secondly is there any way of breaking great bullshit wall that blocks free flow of information. Hold on free and true information is biggest weapon China has.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 15 Jul 2017 20:24

Why not put up Free Tibetan flags at all border locations with China.

It must be set high enough to be visible to their soldiers as a constant reminder. That sort of propaganda should not cost much at all.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 15 Jul 2017 20:26

I repeat my question... have we achieved our objectives at Doklam/Dok La? Or are the Chinese in possession of enough territory in the plateau to build their defences and install their artillery pads?

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 15 Jul 2017 20:29

Why no Kashmiri or Bakistani ever speak about part of Kashmir gifted to China?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 15 Jul 2017 20:30

There is no news from the site. All we know is both sides have forces in the area separated by 100-150 feets apart.

Anything else is speculation

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 15 Jul 2017 20:31

There is no way to verify it unless you are willing to spend money in buying publicly available land imagery from the west. You cannot get that in India for sure. A time series of such ones over the year will yield some information. You are asking for classified information.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 15 Jul 2017 20:36

I think its time the govt tables the 62 war report to the public and talk about the advances we have made in the last 40+ years. There is too much dhoti shivering in the general public and having a clear representation of information (not the operational ones) like that naval war college report will make wonders for the general public morale. Any further twisting or bending of facts by the left or Cheen can be easily countered in the social media, remember we have a good billion people too.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 15 Jul 2017 20:36

By mid June India had restricted all access to Nathu La and even Tsongo lake (approx 15 miles from Gangtok) for tourists. No way any information on actual troop locations is shared with the public. Everything around the Corp HQ in the city looked normal...was even close to one location at the highest view point and we were only told that landslides had closed access even to pilgrims to Kailash.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 15 Jul 2017 20:36

Bade wrote:Chinese potential interference is a given with their presence in PoK and the CPEC dreams through it. I am sure the center is aware of it and now the state of J&K is allowed to air the concerns. This also gives Mufti some breathing space.

I tend to agree. She is speaking of this thing with GOI's blessings whatever be the game.

Ok .. here is a thought .. China interfering in J&K and link it with Chemical weapons and what do you get?
Lets take this further and say something *resembling* a gas [choose one, something of old vintage and not as deadly as the those of the current generation] gets used in J&K or is alleged to have been used and China has threatened to teach India a lesson in J&K [a bit of an exaggeration but you get the point].

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 15 Jul 2017 21:06

The map below, courtesy geopoliticalfutures illustrates a point I made in my earlier post about the center of economic and political gravity in China being along it's Eastern part, especially the coastal areas. The vast interior areas to the west and south-west are mostly empty spaces and are natural land buffers to the Han heartland. In the event of conflict, India will not cause any serious damage if it attacks the "Tibet buffer", other than loss of face. By building outposts on reefs and reclaiming land in the South China sea, the Chinese are attempting to build a sea buffer similar to the land buffer they already enjoy.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 15 Jul 2017 21:32

Bade wrote:There is no way to verify it unless you are willing to spend money in buying publicly available land imagery from the west. You cannot get that in India for sure. A time series of such ones over the year will yield some information. You are asking for classified information.

Thanks. That wasn't my intent, was checking if there was any public info or even hint/rumour as to where the face-to-face happened. I hope it was upstream enough and they were pushed back right at (our version of) the Chinese border.

VKumar · Post by **VKumar** » 15 Jul 2017 21:43

US HOUSE APPROVES 625.1 BN USD BILL ON DEFENCE COOPERATION WITH INDIA. What does it cover?

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 15 Jul 2017 21:55

Iyersan wrote:China says no room for negotiations on Sikkim standoff, adds Ladakh to dispute with India
http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... Grn7I.html

The commentary by the official Xinhua news agency warned that India could face “embarrassment” if it does not withdraw its border troops and sought to add yet another dimension to the face-off by bringing in the Ladakh region and linking it to Pakistan.

Very good...This incident is bringing out all the cards cheena thinks it has little prematurely. A great wake up call for any old school fellows in MEA and strategic circles. India should work its ammunition of its various cards in China. A robust PR propaganda in Iran and middle East about how muslims are subjected to humiliation and slow genocide in North West china is one of it...But even Indian media isn't highlighting it enough.

I am sure we have enough resources to start a social media campaign in Afghanistan and Pakistan about how China treats muslims in their country.

Once the flame is lit, the security cost of cheen operations in Af Pak will become prohibitively expensive.

Chinese are acting like clueless idiots that they are. They have an exposed underbelly of Chinese traders, construction workers , engineers and army people in Af Pak and Africa. With the way they treat their muslims, i am sure some strong blowback is going to come to them. India just needs to bring media attention to their atrocities against muslims.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 15 Jul 2017 22:02

I am sure that it is just a matter of time before some soosai attack happens on their outpost in Dijibouti. Al Queda and other terror groups nurtured by their friend Pakistan are already pissed off with the treatment china meets out to Uighur muslims.

All their grand plans on OBOR will go bust once there are a few revenge attacks that result in engineer or senior level casualty.

Even US with their global spy network, tech gizmos and fortresses are vulnerable. Chinese are exposing hundreds and thousands of their engineers and traders in all risky parts of the world. It's just a matter of time before they face hard realities of the world.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 15 Jul 2017 22:16

^^ They do not care about their own citizens well being in the pursuit of larger strategic goals. Even the USA cannot do all it wishes to do like them with no holds barred.

But the Chinese veiled threat to creating trouble in Kashmir via their media spokespeople is rather bewildering. It gives the perfect excuse for India to go after every two bit actor in J&K violence and no one will ask India why it went hammer and tongs. I am beginning to think the Chinese are rather dumb in reality and cannot even think straight.

All the smarter in their lot have left the shores for the west, who we see and interact with here. What is leftover in China are pretty much party functionaries with connections even in their universities.

manju · Post by **manju** » 15 Jul 2017 22:31

Funny

http://www.firstpost.com/india/get-this ... 04149.html

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 15 Jul 2017 22:37

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOyJZ4UGeD0

Karolina Goswami on India-China again, delivered in her inimitable way. Does not cut any corners. "Can we have brotherhood with a country where many people don't have brothers"?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 15 Jul 2017 22:52

Bade wrote:^^ They do not care about their own citizens well being in the pursuit of larger strategic goals. Even the USA cannot do all it wishes to do like them with no holds barred.

But the Chinese veiled threat to creating trouble in Kashmir via their media spokespeople is rather bewildering. It gives the perfect excuse for India to go after every two bit actor in J&K violence and no one will ask India why it went hammer and tongs. I am beginning to think the Chinese are rather dumb in reality and cannot even think straight.

Modi welcomed the chinese guy xi with a red carpet because of his (Modi's) dealings with chinese companies all of whom Modi had welcomed to Gujarat when he was the CM. He was eager to press on with the good relations and even build upon it with xi

xi paid back Modi's very generous hospitality in a truly uncultured and barbaric way when large numbers of chinese PLA troops transgressed deep into Indian territory right during the visit.

Matters went rapidly down hill from there. xi expected a docile MMS type response but was truly taken aback when Modi did not follow the chinese script.

Dalai lama's tawang visit was a very very clear and unmistakable message to xi from Modi as is the current doklam standoff.

The hans now very well know that Modi will not back down or ever again.

xi is looking at a huge loss of face and maybe his own bleak future.

The hans simply cannot handle India in a shooting war now. It really does not matter how strong they think that they are.

The Indian Forces more than match them in every sphere, if push does indeed come to shove.

The Indian forces are really spoiling for a fight and the hans also know this.

It is the very same Indian Army of 1962 but now with the leadership that the Indian soldiers deserve, both political and military, a leadership that they did not have in 1962, the very same indomitable soldiers of 1962, only better led, better fed, better trained, better armed, better supported and better clothed for high altitude and a much richer, much better led country that stands readily behind these "spoiling for a fight" jawans.

revenge is a great motivator, especially the revenge of the wronged hindi cheeni bhai.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 15 Jul 2017 23:05

Bade wrote:^^ They do not care about their own citizens well being in the pursuit of larger strategic goals. Even the USA cannot do all it wishes to do like them with no holds barred.

But the Chinese veiled threat to creating trouble in Kashmir via their media spokespeople is rather bewildering. It gives the perfect excuse for India to go after every two bit actor in J&K violence and no one will ask India why it went hammer and tongs. I am beginning to think the Chinese are rather dumb in reality and cannot even think straight.

All the smarter in their lot have left the shores for the west, who we see and interact with here. What is leftover in China are pretty much party functionaries with connections even in their universities.

They may not care about their lowly construction laborers, but their traders and engineers and senior level officials are on their own volition and can choose to go back or demand much higher salary and safety. Many private entities can close shop.

This is a very real threat that has tied down the Cheen from interfering in Syria. In fact, Syria offered Chinese a golden opportunity to showcase to the world that they have arrived. However, they were happy to let Russia steal the show. One reason is that they don't yet have the firepower of Russia but I suspect that the real reason is that they are scared of antagonising a billion and a half muslims all over the world.

Thats also the reason all their rhetoric against religious fundamentalism and oppression of muslims happen under an iron clad media and internet blockage.

All US and Indian agencies have to do is let the truth come out and get discussed widely in various middle East and Pakistani internet forums and social media.

China has the most exposed underbelly now of all countries. It isn't too difficult to make them rue the say they dared to mention Kashmir and Ladakh.

I don't expect purely pakistan focussed indian agencies to have such imagination and execution capability but US can. If anything, it will reduce the heat US is getting from global ummah by directing it against atheist Cheen.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 15 Jul 2017 23:13

The ugly truth is that to a fight a war, the strength of the economy does not scale linearly forever in your favor and China knows this. At lower levels like in the 1962 era, it mattered perhaps more though both countries were at similar levels then. Now for the last decade or so both have reached a saturation point, where adding more wealth or strength does not bring immediate end to wars with a short victory to one side unless limited to one local theatre, like say Sikkim tri-junction. So that is deterrence in itself, unless a local flashpoint erupts and then a local peace need to be found either with a decisive victory or a truce called.

So China cannot escalate the tri-junction flashpoint to a more widespread war, the only thing left for it to do is use their proxies in Pakistan to make trouble for India in J&K. There is some benefit for them in doing so clearly, but it needs to be done not as explicitly as they are trying to do which makes them look like idiots.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 15 Jul 2017 23:16

It was extremely stupid of China to take the nane of Kashmir when they have far bigger issue with Uighurs demanding sovereignty.

If we cannot make cheenaa pay for this blunder, that's totally our mistake.

Cheenaa has been very lucky that global ummah's attention is not on them yet. Why would they volunteer for such attention now is a Trillion Yuan question.

I know that Chinese are smart people but arrogance and greed is clouding their intellect and they are behaving like total idiots. Perfect time to reach them a lesson. In fact they are creating opportunities for it. Hope US, Tibetans, Global Uighurs, India, Japan, South Korea and other impacted powers make full use of it.