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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 05 Oct 2017 19:30

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/just-10 ... eststories

cheen is now back to another round of nibbling in doklam

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 05 Oct 2017 21:31

I haven't look at the map but 10 km away would take it out of Doklam plateau more like in Chumbi valley i.e Chinese area proper. Granted such a road *could* ultimately be to make access to Doklam plateau easier.

Sensational headline ...

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 05 Oct 2017 22:48

China has just issued a travel advisory reg. it's citizens travelling to India.With it's party congress due closer by the day,a Chin military surprise attack at places on the border may be in the immediate future.Watch this space.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 05 Oct 2017 23:03

Again sensationalist post ....

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/jVcNsq ... India.html
Chinese embassy issues travel advisory warning Chinese tourists about denial of visas to visit ‘restricted areas’ like the Andaman and Nicobar Islands

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 06 Oct 2017 04:55

Tx for the clarification. But why mention this now,by the Chins? The A&N islands in any case are restricted for most of the region,esp. for firangis.

Or could it be a warning not to in case they get picked up as being involved in snooping? The Chinese are notorious for using their tourists as intel agents.Many of them are in fact in the military.They have a holistic approach to Intel gathering and espionage,stealing Info in any way poss.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 07 Oct 2017 13:49

The smoke signals from China - Pallavi Aiyar, The Hindu
For China watchers, the popular TV series, ‘Game of Thrones’, is but an anaemic trifle when compared to the backroom intrigue and power play expected at the 19th National Congress of the Communist Party of China (CPC). The Congress will begin on October 18, accompanied by platoons of analysts in paroxysms of tea leaf-reading, attempting to decipher which men — no woman has so far been appointed to the Party’s highest body: the Politburo Standing Committee — will control the levers of power in the country that is increasingly shaping global affairs.

The one name every cup of tea is sure to reveal is that of reigning Party chief, Chinese President Xi Jinping. The million yuan question is whether Mr. Xi will further cement his power base, making him the most formidable national leader in the post-Mao era, or whether there will be a last minute stunner, as a rival faction fights back {Surely, there is no last minute stunner; nobody in the horizon. But, you never know in such close-knit communist societies}

Party Congresses are held every five years. Mr. Xi took over the leadership of the CPC from his predecessor, Hu Jintao, at the 18th Congress in 2012. At the time the CPC Central Committee was packed with cadres handpicked by previous leaders, limiting Mr. Xi’s freedom of manoeuvre. But much water has flowed down the Yangtze in the half decade since, with the Chinese President rewriting the rules of institutional workings and bureaucratic promotions, as well as reshaping China’s diplomacy and sense of self in the world.

Consolidating control

Since coming to power, Mr. Xi has strategically centralised control by collecting a smorgasbord of titles. He not only leads the Party and military but is also head of several newly instituted bodies such as the Central Leading Group for Comprehensively Deepening Reforms and the Central National Security Commission set up to combat terrorism and separatism. In January this year he took over as Chairman of the Central Commission for Integrated Military and Civilian Development, only a few months after being hailed by the CPC as a “core leader”, an epithet that has thus far only been conferred on three leaders: Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping and Jiang Zemin.

Until Mr. Xi’s presidency, China had followed Deng’s diktat of “tao guang yang hui”, or keeping a low profile internationally, biding time while focussing on domestic economic growth. The leadership of the Party had also evolved into a collective practice, resembling a boardroom more than an imperial court, with Chinese politics increasingly tied to predictable procedures rather than ruler’s caprice.

But under Mr. Xi, this settled topography has been upended. The Chinese President is a more charismatic and individualistic leader than his predecessors, Hu Jintao and Jiang Zemin. Moreover, under him, China has come to unabashedly project power abroad, and no longer makes any bones about its geostrategic ambitions.

Three strategies

Shin Kawashima, a China scholar at the University of Tokyo, points out that Mr. Xi has deployed three strategies to amplify his power: an anti-corruption blitzkrieg, a tightening of media control and a restructuring of the military. {We have said the same thing here}

The anti-corruption campaign has been a particularly useful tool, serving the dual purpose of toughening party discipline and purging inconvenient rivals. More than 200 officials, many of them in senior positions, have been removed in corruption probes, allowing Mr. Xi to place loyalists or associates of close allies in key positions.

A recent example is that of Sun Zhengcai, former party chief of Chongqing, considered by some to be a contender for future President and a shoo-in for the Politburo. In July, Mr. Sun was abruptly placed under investigation for disciplinary violations (a euphemism for corruption) and removed from his post. He was replaced by Xi-protégé Chen Miner who is now a contender for Mr. Sun’s expected spot on the Politburo’s, innermost, seven-member Standing Committee.

Party Congresses usually last between seven and 10 days. The length of October’s meet will be closely watched. If it’s shorter than usual, it will signal that Mr. Xi’s rival factions found it tough going, while a longer summit would imply the opposite. About 2,300 delegates from different provinces and constituencies like state-owned enterprises and the military will attend the meeting and elect the 200-plus members of the Party Central Committee. The Central Committee will in turn vote for the CPC’s most senior positions. At least 11 of the 25 members of the Politburo are expected to retire, unless an informal rule that requires members to step down at 68 is relaxed. Whether or not Wang Qishan, Mr. Xi’s trusted anti-corruption honcho, stays on the Standing Committee, despite being 68, will be closely watched as an indication of the President’s clout.

Leaving a mark

One likely outcome is the enshrining of Xi Jinping “thought,” the crystallisation of the President’s values and ideals, in the CPC’s constitution. This is standard practice for China’s top leaders. However, other than Mao and Deng, no other leader has had their name tagged on to their “thought”. Mao Zedong Thought and Deng Xiaoping Theory are known as such. But Jiang Zemin’s Three Represents and Hu Jintao’s Scientific Outlook on Development do not have their names appended in the constitution. Whether or not Mr. Xi’s name is added to his “thought” (which has not been given a formal title as yet) will consequently be another key indicator of his sway within the Party.

Finally, the Congress will be scrutinised for any moves that might enable Mr. Xi to stay in a top leadership capacity even after his second term as CPC General Secretary and Chinese President ends in 2022. For example, he might delay the designation of a successor.

Mr. Kawashima hastens to point out that Mr. Xi is still far from all-powerful. Some push back from sidelined groupings will almost certainly occur. But all Mr. Xi needs to steamroll his vision is the support of four out of seven members of the Politburo Standing Committee.

The composition of this group will determine China’s attitude towards global hot spots such as North Korea and border disputes with neighbours like India. A stronger Xi Jinping will likely see an even bolder and more aggressive China regionally and globally.

Domestically, although western Sinologists tend to see the centralisation of authority under Mr. Xi as having a potentially narrowing effect on economic reform, many analysts within the country see his moves as stemming from the need to ride roughshod over vested interests in order to push through difficult reforms. Only time, and perhaps the tea leaves, will tell.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chetak » 07 Oct 2017 18:16

Image

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Amber G. » 08 Oct 2017 00:58

Picture worth a thousand words.. India's Defense Minister..
Nirmala Sitharaman ✔@nsitharaman
Acknowledged a row of Chinese soldiers from across the fence who were taking pictures on my reaching Nathu La. @DefenceMinIndia

Image

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Peregrine » 08 Oct 2017 03:04

China says healthy relationship with India serves interests of both countries

BEIJING: China on Saturday said a healthy and stable relationship with India serves the fundamental interests of both the countries, as it played down the remarks by the Indian Air Force chief about a two-front war.

China and India are important neighbours to each other and are the two largest developing countries and emerging markets, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said.

"A healthy and stable China-India relationship serves the fundamental interests of the two peoples and is also the common expectation of the region and the international community," it added.

The ministry made the remarks in response to India's Air Chief Marshal B S Dhanoa's comments that his forces are capable of effectively countering any threat from China while engaging in a two-front war also involving Pakistan.

"We hope that relevant people of the Indian military will see the historical trend and say more conducive to the development of China-India relations," the ministry added.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 08 Oct 2017 07:38

India plans to lessen its drug reliance on China - Sushmi Dey, ToI
The recent tension between India and China has prompted the government here to think of measures to reduce its dependence on China for pharmaceutical products.

The health ministry along with drug regulators is planning to take a series of measures to limit reliance on China as well as tighten the regulatory checks and balances to ensure only good quality supplies are entering the Indian market.

Currently, India gets 70-80% of its medicines and medical devices supplies, including raw material for pharmaceuticals (Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient) from China. This poses a major risk of severe drug shortage if India's diplomatic relations with China worsen.

In fact, in 2014, National Security Adviser Ajit Doval had also warned the government about India's over-dependence on China for API and how tension between the two countries can cause a crisis in the public health system of India.

Following Doval's alert, the government had formed a committee of experts to formulate a specific policy to boost API manufacturing in India.

The list of regulatory and financial measures being planned by the government includes routine inspections of plants, higher registration charges, hike in licensing fee, tougher sourcing procedures, higher customs duty and deeper scrutiny of supply chain.

"We do not want the trade to cease between the two countries. The idea is to regulate small foreign players who may not be supplying quality products but giving pricing advantage. This in turn is hurting the interest of Indian patients as well as the industry. We want to create a level playing field for Indian companies and also ensure good quality products for Indian patients," Drugs Controller General of India (DCGI) G N Singh said.

The regulator is planning to start site inspections from next month itself,
he said. The government is also planning to make changes to the Drugs and Cosmetics Rules soon to hike registration charges and licensing fees.

Industry executives say Indian companies are subjected to much higher fees when they sell their products in China or in other countries but apart from imposing tougher norms on Chinese companies, the government must also take steps to boost the growth of Indian industry.

"The measures are important to bring a parity to fee structures but it has its consequences like impact on prices and competition," says D G Shah, secretary general of Indian Pharmaceutical Alliance.

The landed price of API from China in India is 15-20% less than its production cost here, making it more viable for companies to import.

"Once the government strengthens the regulatory mechanism and imposes higher fee structures, a lot of fly by night operators will stop operating in this space. While Indian players will benefit from this, it will also ensure patient safety,"
said Himanshu Baid, managing director of Ploy Medicure and chairman of CII Medical Technology Division.

Currently, API accounts for less than 10% of India's over Rs 1 lakh crore pharmaceutical industry. However, India was once a favoured destination for sourcing low-cost, good quality raw material for manufacturing medicines. Gradually, China has taken over this bulk drug market globally in the past few years by creating huge capacities.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby TKiran » 08 Oct 2017 08:14

The China traders don't care what procedures you create, you give them access to market, they will flood, even if you have any number of restrictions. Complete stoppage of China origin anything is the only solution.

The problem with the India is that they don't understand China mentality, they are susceptible to China deception. Those who see through and understand, do not device policies correctly. They leave a small hole in the ship, so that water can seep in inconceivable.

The trade deficit with China cannot be contained by this govt. This govt is clueless. How cleverly this guy is fooling Indian public, by saying that we don't want the complete stoppage, but a fair play for Indian manufacturers. Unless there's complete boycott of anything China, India is doomed economy wise.

Chinese products are new opium. For China there's only one strategic weapon, TRADE

With that weapon, they could subjugate mighty USA within a span of one and a half decades.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ashish raval » 08 Oct 2017 12:56

^Agreed sir, but how many businessman and Babu's have wherewithal to follow the dreaded path? They can always invoke reciprocal access clause to stop Chinese flooding the market. The issue even with this is that Chinese only open up sectors where they know that they are very strong and no outside will be able to compete in their domestic market. Indian businesses never thought about global strategy and now paying price as importer and assembler of things rather than being producers and innovators.. Indian business choose path of easy life while Chinese choose path of reverse engineer everything that weather and are now reaping benefits by flooding other developing nations at will.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby TKiran » 08 Oct 2017 13:28

ashish raval wrote:^Agreed sir, but how many businessman and Babu's have wherewithal to follow the dreaded path? They can always invoke reciprocal access clause to stop Chinese flooding the market. The issue even with this is that Chinese only open up sectors where they know that they are very strong and no outside will be able to compete in their domestic market. Indian businesses never thought about global strategy and now paying price as importer and assembler of things rather than being producers and innovators.. Indian business choose path of easy life while Chinese choose path of reverse engineer everything that weather and are now reaping benefits by flooding other developing nations at will.

That's perfect excuse, like for example, you give your kid 'charas' and ask him not to try it.

It's the duty of the government to frame policies and make sure that the trade with China is impossible.

For example, you say that, Chinese have to use India as their tourist destination and spend (meaning buy rupees) the same amount of money which is the trade deficit right now. In other words, spend $60 B for the year 2018, as the trade deficit has been $60B for the year 2017. We can use that amount to improve the infrastructure for tourism.

Do you think this suggestion sounds stupid, well, the Chinese have put such restrictions on trade, dangling the attraction of huge market.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ashish raval » 08 Oct 2017 13:52

TKiran wrote:
ashish raval wrote:^Agreed sir, but how many businessman and Babu's have wherewithal to follow the dreaded path? They can always invoke reciprocal access clause to stop Chinese flooding the market. The issue even with this is that Chinese only open up sectors where they know that they are very strong and no outside will be able to compete in their domestic market. Indian businesses never thought about global strategy and now paying price as importer and assembler of things rather than being producers and innovators.. Indian business choose path of easy life while Chinese choose path of reverse engineer everything that weather and are now reaping benefits by flooding other developing nations at will.

That's perfect excuse, like for example, you give your kid 'charas' and ask him not to try it.

It's the duty of the government to frame policies and make sure that the trade with China is impossible.

For example, you say that, Chinese have to use India as their tourist destination and spend (meaning buy rupees) the same amount of money which is the trade deficit right now. In other words, spend $60 B for the year 2018, as the trade deficit has been $60B for the year 2017. We can use that amount to improve the infrastructure for tourism.

Do you think this suggestion sounds stupid, well, the Chinese have put such restrictions on trade, dangling the attraction of huge market.



True. India can afford to frame domestically oriented policies and yet attract FDI And other monies to give it legs. If China with communist regime can attract FDI with restricted market access to foreign players, then India can certainly do so by dangling the carrot of huge domestic market. Western democracies will make noise but not beyond a point where they loose market become second player and never become top player. We should be very wary of opening markets in insurance, banking, electronics and retail to Chinese and certainly become stronger domestically first. For this government will need massive scale skills development likes of which Germans run to keep Chinese at bay. The other way is to make new standards for the country which are favourable to Indian manufacturers. These should be so comprehensive that every step of the process from procurement to quality should have a standard which is followed by Indian manufacturers. If Chinese have to follow the same process and same standards I am sure that their product will be more expensive in the process. European union tries to build the walls in this way to keep Chinese at bay. Rules of everything i.e. type of elastic, quality of rubber for underwear too - haha to put it on witty note.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby periaswamy » 08 Oct 2017 20:16

TKiran, Why all this whining OT nonsense about Indian politics in this thread? How is this even remotely related to dealing with China? Aren't there other threads for political cr@p?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Amber G. » 08 Oct 2017 20:23

My hats off to our DM.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gerard » 08 Oct 2017 20:27

Moderation note. Please keep discussions on Indian politics out of this thread.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 08 Oct 2017 20:44

Gerard wrote:Moderation note. Please keep discussions on Indian politics out of this thread.


Respected Mods, times like this that GDF is missed sorely. Going forward will we stop even discussing topics like this. How can we discuss military or economics if we omit any reference to government of the day and its leaders. While I defer to the reasons that would have prompted shut down, it does become difficult

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Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Peregrine » 08 Oct 2017 22:47

China urges India to 'face the facts and abide by historic treaty' on border areas

BEIJING: China on Sunday referred to the 1890 UK-China treaty which it claims demarcated the Sikkim sector of the China-India border as it urged New Delhi to abide by its provisions, a day after Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman made her maiden visit to the Nathu La post.

Reacting to Sitharaman's visit to the area, the Chinese foreign ministry on Sunday said "the Sikkim section of the China-India border has been demarcated by the historical boundary+ ".
"It is the best testimony to this fact. We urge the Indian side to face the facts, abide by the provisions of the historic boundary treaty and the relevant agreement of the parties, and work together with the Chinese side to maintain peace and tranquility in the border areas," it said in a written response to PTI, to a query about Sitharaman's visit.

The ministry did not directly name the 1890 Britain-China treaty which Beijing often referred to during the Doklam stand-off+ stating that it has defined the Sikkim section of the boundary with Tibet, therefore the border in that area has been settled.

Sitharaman on Saturday visited the Nathu La area on the China-India border and interacted with Army and Indo-Tibetan Border Police officials.

Nathu La is the last post separating the border between the Sikkim on the Indian side and Tibet on the Chinese side. Sitharaman's trip was the first high level visit to the area after the 73-day standoff between Indian and Chinese troops at Doklam in the Sikkim sector of the border which ended on August 28 following a mutual agreement between India and China.

Of the 3,488-km India-China border which stretches from Jammu and Kashmir to Arunachal Pradesh, a 220-km section falls in Sikkim. The two sides have so far held 19 rounds of Special Representatives' talks to resolve the dispute.

The Doklam standoff began on June 16 over the PLA's plans to build a road in the area claimed by Bhutan after which Indian troops intervened to stop the construction as it posed a security risk to the 'Chicken's Neck' - the narrow corridor connecting India with its northeastern states.

China, which earlier opened the Nathu La route for Indian pilgrims to visit Kailash and Manasarovar, closed it after the Doklam standoff and is yet to reopen it.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 09 Oct 2017 04:21

NS should not have interacted with the PLA.Have you EVER seen a single senior Chin.min EVER interact with the Indian Army on a disputed border? No way! This attitude I'm sorry to say shows weakness from our side,always willing to offer "traditional Indian hospitality".Instead she should've unveiled a "trespassers will be shot sign".We show weakness the Chins advance.We show spine and steel they halt and retreat.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby vijaykarthik » 09 Oct 2017 09:09

^Agree.
On a different note, Im not a big fan on making her the def minister either. BJP should have had a more strategic leader in there than just fill in the role and gain brownie points with the nation. Strategic and defence affairs is no laughing matter and we time and again miss that point. History teaches bad lessons to those who forget it.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 09 Oct 2017 10:08

Nirmala surveys Doklam, Nathula - The Hindu
While the troops disengaged, China continues to have a sizeable presence a few hundred metres away, with stores and new bunkers. Sources have spoken about China carrying out the overlay of a road leading towards the Doklam area, but within their territory.

‘Status quo prevails’

The External Affairs Ministry on Friday dismissed media reports about the Chinese presence.

“The status quo prevails in this area. Any suggestion to the contrary is incorrect,” it said.

Army sources said if the Chinese did not withdraw from the deployment before winter, they would have established a “new normal”, in terms of forward deployment in Doklam. “It is not something that we can accept,” a source said.

In the next few weeks, India and China could engage again in bilateral negotiations for restoring the status quo ante, sources said.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 09 Oct 2017 12:09

Igzackly!, .....as dear Obelix would've said.The Chinese have cheated us on the disengagement agreement.They slimy stayed put and have increased their presence.The PRC party congress is round the corner,a huge personality cult status is being built up for the drunken master,
XI Gins in advance of his attempt to emulate "Chairman" Mao.

He wants to show everyone how clever he was by tricking India into withdrawing unilaterally. I agree.The party should've appointed a former chief as Def. Min. to show the strongest signal to the world and China in particular.Not that I am rooting for Gen.VKS.Someone else.It would also put babudom in place,faster decision-making and execution of defence-related plans long pending.Big opportunity missed,no disrespect to NS at all.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 09 Oct 2017 14:57

X-posted from the Rohingya thread

China reinforces mediation call as Rohingya crisis spirals - Atul Aneja, The Hindu
Without alienating Bangladesh, China is backing Myanmar, setting the stage of mediation between the two countries to resolve the Rohingya humanitarian and refugee crisis.

On September 28, China flew 2,000 tents and 3,000 blankets as part of a 150-tonnes relief package for Rohingya refugees, fleeing the violence in Myanmar.

The Chinese stressed that they had flown in the supplies purely on humanitarian considerations to help Bangladesh shoulder the burden of the sudden refugee surge. Politically, Beijing empathised with Myanmar,
which had become a target of harsh criticism from the West on the familiar grounds of violating human rights and engaging in “ethnic cleansing.”

“The Chinese side is highly concerned about the difficulty facing Bangladesh in resettling the displaced people in the Myanmar-Bangladesh border area. In order to help the government of Bangladesh with the resettlement efforts, the Chinese government has decided to provide emergency humanitarian supplies to the government of Bangladesh,” said Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang during a September 30 media briefing.

However, Beijing also ensured that Myanmar avoided harsh international sanctions, which the United Nations could impose. During the first debate in the UN Security Council on September 28, the Chinese side defended Myanmar, highlighting the context of the humanitarian crisis.

Myanmar’s Rakhine State is at the heart of the Rohingya crisis. On August 25, the Arakan Rohingya Salivation Army (ARSA), operating in the State, attacked 30 police posts, killing 84, with 54 going missing. The massive retaliation by the Myanmar armed forces triggered an exodus of 4,00,000 people, seeking sanctuaries in the Chittagong hill tracts of neighbouring Bangladesh.

Strategically vital

Rakhine is strategically vital for both China and India. The website The Irrawaddy from Myanmar has reported that Beijing has been pushing for preferential access to the deep seaport of Kyaukphyu — part of its ambitious infrastructure investment plan to deepen its links with economies throughout Asia and beyond. China has plans to pitch in $10 billion in the neighbouring Kyaukphyu Special Economic Zone.

Besides, it wants to establish a railway from the Bay of Bengal, linking Myanmar with its Yunnan Province, within the framework of its Belt and Road undertaking. India, on its part is developing the Sittwe port, the capital of Rakhine province, for providing port access to its landlocked northeast.

With the crisis escalating, China has reiterated its offer to mediate between Myanmar and Bangladesh.

“China is willing to continue promoting peace talks in its own way, and hopes the international community can play a constructive role to ease the situation and promote dialogue,” China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi was quoted as saying.


Pakistan’s role

China’s offer to broker a resolution is not new. In April, Chinese Special Envoy for Asian Affairs Sun Guoxiang visited Bangladesh and offered to tackle a diplomatic row between Bangladesh and Myanmar over the flight of the Rohingya.

Yet, China’s efforts may not succeed without active behind-the -scenes support from Pakistan
, another player that has been drawn into the Rohingya entanglement.

Writing in the Asia Times , Bertil Lintner, a Myanmar specialist, points out that ARSA’s leader, Ataullah abu Ammar Junjuni, also known as Hafiz Tohar, was born in Karachi and received madrasa education in Saudi Arabia. The group was earlier known as Harakah al-Yaqin, or “the faith movement,” and only last year adopted its more ethnically oriented name.

Mr. Lintner pointed out there were thousands of first, second and third generation Rohingya living in Orangi, Korangi, Landhi and other impoverished suburbs of Karachi. “The areas where they live are long-time hotbeds of extremist activity, with some known to have been recruited to fight in the wars in Afghanistan,” the article observed.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sudhan » 09 Oct 2017 15:25

Philip wrote:Instead she should've unveiled a "trespassers will be shot sign".We show weakness the Chins advance.We show spine and steel they halt and retreat.


We should wave a bunch of signs that says in chaste mandarin that shows the following messages:

1. How many of you have been in combat?

2. Dressing up and goose stepping while screaming your lungs out does not count as combat.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby TKiran » 09 Oct 2017 17:34

Beautiful story of saltmen of Tibet.

https://youtu.be/-FkhB04Tx7M

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 09 Oct 2017 18:23

An Indian move in the Andamans - Ravi Velloor, Straits Times
INDIA SENDS RETIRED FOUR STAR ADMIRAL TO RUN THE ANDAMANS

The bottom half of the Andaman and Nicobar chain of islands is controlled by India and with its southern tip only 90 nautical miles or so from Sumatra, this gives the South Asian power a foot hold in South-east Asia.

Indeed, ships passing through the Strait of Malacca have to enter or emerge under the watchful eye of the Indian Navy.


Developing the Andaman and Nicobars and militarising them have always been on the Indian agenda, but New Delhi has tended to go slow on it.

In the 1980s, a plan to station Jaguar fighter bombers on Car Nicobar island was given up after the foreign ministry advised against it, fearing it might make South-east Asia nervous as to Indian intentions.

Today, there is no such nervousness in South-east Asia. Indeed, given China's assertive behaviour in the region, there might even be a sense of reassurance to see India beef up military capabilities in the vicinity.


Since the 2004 tsunami, which also affected the islands, India has eyed plans to significantly build up the area.

Now, real muscle is being added to the effort and nothing underscores this as much as the appointment last week of former Indian navy chief Admiral DK Joshi to the post of Lieutenant Governor of the Andaman & Nicobar administration. Since it is a federally administered territory, Adm Joshi has direct charge of the entire administration of the islands, and reports to the Home Ministry in New Delhi.

Adm Joshi's appointment to the civilian governor's job is doubly significant since he has expert knowledge of the islands, having served there before during his military career, when he was Commander-in-Chief Andaman & Nicobars, or CINCAN in Indian military parlance. The Andamans is the first and only triservice command, integrating all three sword arms of the Indian military.

The appointment also is in some ways a rehabilitation for the admiral. In February 2014, he abruptly resigned as navy chief following a series of accidents involving his fleet, including the loss of a submarine after an accident on board.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 09 Oct 2017 18:50

From Rohit Vats
http://vatsrohit.blogspot.in/2017/10/do ... stand.html
..read it all at the link
.
(D) So, where do we stand?
    It is my considered opinion that the road construction activity which had triggered the stand-off has ceased and hence, the resolution came about.
    Chinese will be smarting from this loss of face - they did a horrendous miscalculation - and will try to test the tripwire as far as India and Bhutan are concerned.
    For example, can they get away with larger body of troops based on the plateau? This would be a departure from the past where they only patrolled the plateau with lesser number of troops. It will represent more physical assertion of control. And to achieve this, Chinese will have to build permanent and more enhanced infrastructure. The very act of not objecting to Chinese infrastructure work will be considered a tactic acceptance of their objective of maintaining larger number of troops.
    Can they work on improving existing track on the plateau? Remember, tracks coming from Senche La towards Doka La have existed from at least 2005 (as seen on historic Google Earth satellite imagery). Will work towards improvement of this older track evoke response from Bhutan or India?

As explained earlier, India and Bhutan cannot allow larger Chinese presence on the plateau and associated infrastructure development.

Whether this point becomes another flash-point will depend on what the Chinese do during the winter month. If the Chinese withdraw, then all is good. If they stay, and for that they'll have to improve infrastructure, then we're in store for more fireworks.

However, what is most likely to happen is that Chinese will withdraw after lingering in the area a bit longer. But will come back during the next summer season. When they do this time, they would've worked out the contingencies in advance. This time, they were caught off-guard because they'd not gamed Indian response. Next time, they will factor in the same and prepare themselves for putting pressure at some other point(s) on the Sino-Indian border.

Long story short, this is not the last we've heard of Dolam Plateau.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 10 Oct 2017 02:31

X-Post....

Nirmala surveys Doklam, Nathula - The Hindu
While the troops disengaged, China continues to have a sizeable presence a few hundred metres away, with stores and new bunkers. Sources have spoken about China carrying out the overlay of a road leading towards the Doklam area, but within their territory.

‘Status quo prevails’

The External Affairs Ministry on Friday dismissed media reports about the Chinese presence.

“The status quo prevails in this area. Any suggestion to the contrary is incorrect,” it said.

Army sources said if the Chinese did not withdraw from the deployment before winter, they would have established a “new normal”, in terms of forward deployment in Doklam. “It is not something that we can accept,” a source said.

In the next few weeks, India and China could engage again in bilateral negotiations for restoring the status quo ante, sources said.


MEA should decide what is their message?
Is status quo ante established or being restored?

MEA should not have a say in border regions but deal with far away places.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 10 Oct 2017 07:31

China goes gaga over Nirmala’s namaste to PLA soldiers on LAC - Saibal Dasgupta, ToI
Defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman's unscripted interaction+ with Chinese soldiers during a visit to the India-China border at Nathu-La in Sikkim drew favourable attention in Chinese social media where a video of her exchanging greetings with the soldiers has gone viral.

Even Chinese experts have praised her initiative to advance goodwill but the Chinese foreign ministry tried to play down the matter merely reiterating its earlier stance on the border issue.

Sitharaman has also been praised as a "brave women" facing the border challenge as a defence minister. This is significant because there is no woman in the senior ranks of the Communist Party and government in China, a source said.

"I am happy to see this peaceful scene," posted a blogger, Zhui Zhui. Another Internet user, Tu Yueyue, wrote in Sina Weibo, the Chinese equivalent of Twitter, "The Indian woman defence minister directly faced the tough border problem. Such a brave woman."

But Sitharaman's exchange of greetings with Chinese soldiers came in for praise by Qian Feng, an expert at the Chinese Association for South Asian Studies.

It "sent a goodwill signal towards mending bilateral ties and putting relations back on track toward normality", Qian told party-run Global Times.

Another expert, Hu Shisheng, said, "Although leaders of the two countries are exploring more cooperation, the focus and priority of the two countries is to avoid friction and conflict."

In a commentary, Global Times editorialised her border inspection as an "aggressive posture" but said she had "diluted" it by conducting "friendly interactions with Chinese soldiers".

"New Delhi needs to exercise restraint. It can only strengthen military infrastructure on its own soil when and where international law permits. It should consider deepening strategic security communication with China, which can enhance mutual trust between China and India," it said.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby vijaykarthik » 10 Oct 2017 15:15

SSridhar wrote:“China is willing to continue promoting peace talks in its own way, and hopes the international community can play a constructive role to ease the situation and promote dialogue,” China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi was quoted as saying.


What lovely double speak contained inside a single statement. China will continue to promote team talks in its own way. Reading between lines, if the countries don't toe the line, China will express serious disappointment in how the countries behave and urge them to do the right thing and call upon the international community to speak up on that fact.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sum » 10 Oct 2017 16:18

Actually i admire this way of firmly putting their core interests in the open and wish we do same to both TSP and China instead of wishy washy statements

(Am still cringing at the stuff being said by NSAB member and ex RAW honcho Dulat in London. Am wondering what core interests we put forward if the men in charge of it are themselves so clueless)

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 11 Oct 2017 06:57

Doklam effect: Army pushes for upgrade of infrastructure along China border - Rajat Pandit, ToI
The Army now wants a concerted push towards border infrastructure development in Uttarakhand and Himachal Pradesh as part of the overall plan for "capability enhancement" all along the 4,057-km Line of Actual Control (LAC) after the tense Doklam troop stand-off with China.

This is one of the crucial issues on the agenda of the ongoing Army commanders' conference, which is being chaired by General Bipin Rawat with all top Lieutenant Generals of the 11.73-lakh strong force, in the backdrop of both India and China maintaining high operational alerts and force-levels along the LAC despite "disengaging" at Doklam.

Defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman, who herself visited forward areas at the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet tri-junction last Saturday+ , assured the military brass she would "focus on capacity and capability development" and "closely monitor improvement in strategic infrastructure" while addressing the conference on Tuesday.

The Army, for one, needs full road connectivity to the four mountain passes of Niti, Lipulekh, Thangla-1 and Tsang-Chokla in Uttarakhand by 2020, with links to three other passes in the region being taken up thereafter, say sources.

There is also a proposal for "better command-and-control" of Army battalions and units spreading from the Karakoram Pass to Lipulekh by integrating them under one corps, with three divisions (15,000 soldiers each) under it, as well as improved inter-sector connectivity through lateral road links.

The 545-km long middle sector (Uttarakhand, Himachal) of the unresolved LAC has relatively been the most peaceful over the years, with India and China even exchanging maps of their "claimed lines" around 17 years ago. In contrast, several spots in the western (Ladakh) and eastern (Sikkim, Arunachal) sectors have emerged as major flashpoints with frequent troop face-offs.

Gen Rawat, incidentally, had just last month warned that China was flexing its muscles and would continue with its efforts to nibble away Indian territory through "salami slicing"+ and other measures.

China, of course, has assiduously built an extensive network of railway lines, highways, metal-top roads, air bases, radars, logistics hubs and other infrastructure in the entire Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR) to sustain over 30 divisions (each with over 15,000 soldiers), including five to six "rapid reaction forces" there.

The People's Liberation Army now also has requisite infrastructure for swift mobility of troops and weapon systems in western TAR opposite the middle sector of the LAC. "PLA has already connected four passes there, with its road-heads to another seven-eight passes being less than 5-km," said a source.

China has also re-organized its 2.3-million PLA into five theatre commands to crank up its offensive capabilities. Its Western Theatre Command now handles the entire LAC with India instead of the earlier Chengdu Military Region in the east and the Lanzhou Military Region towards the north.

But India has floundered in playing catch-up. Only 27 "strategic all-weather roads" (963-km) of the 73 (totalling (4,643-km) identified for construction along the LAC over 15 years ago, for instance, have been completed till now. Moreover, the long-proposed construction of 14 "strategic railway lines" for the western and eastern fronts has not even kicked off till now, as was earlier reported by TOI.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 11 Oct 2017 07:14

Very innovative move by Her Excellency the DM. Seriously dented the Chinese propaganda. Just the right tone of steel behind the Namaste. I would have added:
"Chera-teeni kullanmare, marappati-kunjungale, teeppatti-kollikale!"

I thought she was going to ask about the soldier's family, mother and grandmother etc and make him cry.

Incidentally, also showed the Chinese at the frontlines to be basically pleasant, polite kids trained to fight. Sad. India and China should be friends after the *&*^&*( Commie Gang is liquidated and the border moved back to KunniMangalam and Longitude 100E.
I think her team should have distributed a few laddoos to the soldiers on both sides.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby vijaykarthik » 11 Oct 2017 09:57

The upshot of all this Dokalam episode will be that China played its hand too early with the Indians and will live on to regret it. Good that we didn't sit down and take it in stride unlike the SE Asian neighbours and were ready to pack a punch. Now, its going to be a more complicated game as both China and India will start suspecting each other more openly and build more offensive capabilities and harden and batten down defenses.

The long run is what is going to decide who will win from here and in the short run, the one who blinks first will have a disadvantage. The Chinese strategy of buying time is dead in this instance. They have already shown their sword sheath in the foreground. Too early. Costly mistake, IMHO.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby vijaykarthik » 11 Oct 2017 13:06

USS Chafee (DDG-90) did a FONOP near the Paracel islands.

Did the same in international waters. Chinese Fin Min hasn't mentioned anything about it yet.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 11 Oct 2017 19:06

China only understand miliitary might.Nothing else works.Lucknawi Oudh style etiquette diplomatique is simply scorned by the Middle Kingdom,who consider themselves superior to everyone. The megalaomaniac leader that they have at the moment,XI Gins,drunk on [power,lusting after absolute power,like a Chin emperor of yore,ill only wake up to reality when an Indian bayonet is stuck up his nether end. A perfect example of Chin diplomacy/duplicity can be understood while watching that cult film,"Mars attacks:",starring jack Nicholson as the US pres. When the two leaders meet,Jack N makes an impassioned speech why mars and earth can't be friends and cooperate.The Martian leader's face dissolves into a sympathetic smile, sheds a crocodile tear and then promptly blasts Jack N to eternity!

Therefore,we should avoid useless diplomacy unless it is a diversionary tactic to gain much-needed time as our infra. and mil. might needs a lot of beefing up to face both china and Pak.But a definite show of strength on the border with a no-entrance /trespassers-will-be-shot attitude is the only way to stall the Chins.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby yensoy » 11 Oct 2017 19:45

Philip wrote:China only understand miliitary might.Nothing else works.Lucknawi Oudh style etiquette diplomatique is simply scorned by the Middle Kingdom,who consider themselves superior to everyone. The megalaomaniac leader that they have at the moment,XI Gins,drunk on [power,lusting after absolute power,like a Chin emperor of yore,ill only wake up to reality when an Indian bayonet is stuck up his nether end. A perfect example of Chin diplomacy/duplicity can be understood while watching that cult film,"Mars attacks:",starring jack Nicholson as the US pres. When the two leaders meet,Jack N makes an impassioned speech why mars and earth can't be friends and cooperate.The Martian leader's face dissolves into a sympathetic smile, sheds a crocodile tear and then promptly blasts Jack N to eternity!

Therefore,we should avoid useless diplomacy unless it is a diversionary tactic to gain much-needed time as our infra. and mil. might needs a lot of beefing up to face both china and Pak.But a definite show of strength on the border with a no-entrance /trespassers-will-be-shot attitude is the only way to stall the Chins.


Sir with due respect, this is a huge over-generalization. Yes, every nation understands "might". You could pulverize Pakistan tomorrow and they will begin to "understand" you. Same with China, same with the US - if it is ever possible.

The fact is that overwhelming force is impossible to muster, and all negotiations have to be done with a combination of carrot and stick - political, commercial, economic, soft-power, 3rd party influence and finally military force. Likewise you need to understand your opponent's intent as well as signalling; you also need to be keenly perceptive of your opponent's world-view in particular how they view themselves and how they view you. Equally important is how you communicate - your consistency, your speaking in one voice, your drawing of red-lines as well as showing room to negotiate, so that your opponent is naturally drawn to where you want them.

Many analogies can be made in real life - with how we deal with our children, pets and most challenging of them all, our respective spouses.

Only recently has our foreign office got adept at reading the opponent's mind. You may be very correct in stating that sympathy is not in PRC tradition - but that papers over the real subtleties, (i) sympathy is very much human conditioning - and there are people and organizations within China which do have sympathy for causes they believe in (see the overwhelming response to Dangal, a human drama built around empathy for the underdog); (ii) the PRC government appreciates strength and consistency - you cannot elicit both sympathy and maintain a credible world-class military at the same time; (iii) when it comes to China and us, we are talking of civilizational interactions which go back several thousand years - so our goal should be to not just engage the CCP which is a flash in the pan by historic standards, but the people of China at large.

Disclaimer: of course we should not let our guard down like we did in the 50s and 60s

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kumarn » 11 Oct 2017 22:22

Why would you want sympathy?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 12 Oct 2017 15:25

Nowhere is it stated that "overwhelming force" is reqd. A def. analysts suggested that 3-3.5% could be devoted to India's def. budget keeping in mind the reqs. of the next 25-50 yrs.Anything less will ensure our continued harassment and attempted blackmail by the Chinese as they're doing today.
Unless they realise that they will get as good they give,they will never relent. The US dropped the ball in the Indo-China Sea and the Chinese immediately invaded the Spratlys ,gobbling them up. had the US even planted the flag in one tiny atoll,it would've made the Chins stop and think.Now it is a fait accompli.This is what the Chins are attempting to do on land in the Himalayas/Occupied Tibet.Therefore the only way to prevent this from becoming a reality is sufficient military strength that can teahc the Chins a lesson next time round. A massive mil. beefing up exercise is past time. Regrettably this is v.difficult right now thanks to the eco downturn and impending elections perhaps end next yr.2018 is going to be a yr. of great tension for India with poltiical strife entering into high gear pre-election,plus Chin mischief once XI Gins the magnificent is enshrined on his imperial throne after the party congress. he will then have the imperial clout to "clout" upstart India that dares to defy Chinese hegemony over Asia and beyond..


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