Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct 2014

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Shreeman » 13 Oct 2014 05:04

UlanBatori wrote:The whole misunderstanding between India and Pakistan is that Indians seem to believe that Pakistan is a permanent thing, that we have to learn to live with each other etc.

Why does Pakistan have any right to exist as One Big Pakistan? Because the bloody British said so? Ha!
Every hostile act by Pakistan is an excuse to push hard towards the fundamental objective: Multi-Pakistanism. Or Many Little Pakistans where there was just the one big one before. All reducing each other to pakistan. All made to understand that hostility towards India == cause for becoming even more pakistans. None of this "calibrated response using same kind of weapon" etc. Just massive Retribution, but not just at border posts. Directed very economically and intelligently to reduce the Pakistan infrastructure and the Army's mobility to zero.


I see what you are saying. Instead of one big pakistan you divide it by essential functions:
1 No. 1 station
2 No. 2 stall
3. Shower province, and
3.5 Baby changing station.

This way you improve the efficiency of each of the four fathers and improve independent function. However, you decouple the synergies and cause ownership conflicts.

Not happenning.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby shiv » 13 Oct 2014 05:18

CRamS wrote:
http://www.ibtimes.com/narendra-modi-pu ... an-1703478


military officers in both countries and officials in New Delhi say the violence that has killed nearly 20 civilians escalated because of a more assertive Indian posture under the new government of nationalist Prime Minister Narendra Modi.



Not sure why this news upset should upset anyone. Indian reports were clear about this from day 1. There are more Paki military insallations near civil areas - and collateral damage to civilians is likely to be higher on the Pak side. I think the displaced Pakis number was 180,000? Or was it 20,000. Can't recall. Big deal Like Hamas if you build mil fortifications in civil areas - Pakis should not expect to get a respite.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby shiv » 13 Oct 2014 05:24

A_Gupta wrote:
An editorial in the Indian Express on Friday called for cooler heads, saying further escalation would damage India's reputation as a responsible nation and attractive investment destination, and could rekindle a separatist insurgency on its side of Kashmir.


:rotfl:

What amazes me is the juvenile immaturity of so many ostensibly adult and mature Indian minds. People talk like school children afraid of what teacher will say. Independent thought seems to have been washed clean from the minds of Indians in independent India. We make statements like:

1. India's reputation will be damaged (I will be called a bad boy)
2. Kashmir will be internationalized ( Teacher will find out about my mischief)

What a bunch of naive-child brains we have with needless juvenile anxieties that demand that we accept punishment and chastization (terrorism and killing) simply to have a good reputation and have irrational fears of what others might do

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby shiv » 13 Oct 2014 05:35

It is easy to misinterpret C.Fair's statement that "Surviving" is victory as meaning that there is no use beating them because they will not feel beates.

In fact if Pakistanis are not beaten they get tempted to provoke and then claime that they are superior. They need to be punished. they need to feel pain. If they survive after that (as they are likely to do) they will fear hitting India for a short while and during this short while they will boast within Pakistan, among themselves that "We have won because we survived"

Hitting them and punishing them is essential or else their "victory" which always exists in their minds will come cheap. Not hitting them will also prove to them the usual boast that Indians are cowards. Hitting them will at least make their nightmares come true.

So let us stop these doubts, fears and anxieties about hitting them

As regards terrorism - I think we do injustice to out internal security if we believe that terrorism has gone down because of cease fire. Yes more attacks can occur - but that will reveal ch!nks in the system.

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6948
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Anujan » 13 Oct 2014 05:36

From the article that Partha ji posted, written by a Pakistani motorma

In 1999, during a previous Sharif-led administration, Pakistani paramilitary forces crossed the LOC into Indian-held territory at Kargil and stayed until international pressure forced a withdrawal.


Actually Pakistan army got their musharraf kicked and had to leave, when we coined the statement "Downhill Skiing" here. Recall that the same Motorma interviewed Ms Fair and tried to shove in "Pakistan itself victim of terrorism onleee"

Also in the NDTV clip that was posted, the first Paki fella, is quite a subtle troll, I know him from other contexts. If you are to ever debate him, maintain a cool head and kick under the belt. I had the pleasure of doing so once.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Oct 2014 05:55

partha wrote:UBji, I would like to give a bojitive spin to "Give peace a chance, destroy Pakistan" and say "Break up Pakistan to save Pakistan." 8)


U mean, pee bissfool and make it just Give Peace A Chance?

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6948
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Anujan » 13 Oct 2014 05:57

Here is an interesting article

http://tribune.com.pk/story/774469/bail ... -december/

Pakistan has agreed to the International Monetary Fund’s (IMF) proposal to club the incomplete fourth review of the $6.7 billion loan with the programme’s fifth review, relenting from its earlier hostile stance towards the offer following a push from the United States.
The retreat will allow Islamabad to secure two loan tranches amounting to a total $1.1 billion by December this year, subject to implementation of all outstanding conditions set for the period of April-June and July-September.

Last month, Finance Minister Dar told The Express Tribune that he had turned down the IMF’s proposal to club the fourth and fifth reviews.


Basically what is happening is this. IMF withheld 550 million $ because Nawaz government couldnt not raise the electricity tariff or proceed on its disinvestment goals. This is because Imran Khan is protesting and raising prices now is probably not a good idea. Now 550 million $ is due again in december. IMF is saying that they will evaluate whether Pakistan has met all targets in one go and then if they did they will handover 1.1 Billion $. Here is the interesting part. Pakistan had refused this lumpsum deal. Instead they said that they will forgo the $550 million related to raising the electricity tariffs and IMF can consider that a loan repayment of the previous IMF loan :mrgreen: 8) So if you were supposed to lend me 300 Rs in 3 batches of 100 Rs each and you dont lend me the second batch, I will consider that a repayment of the first 100 Rs I borrowed 8)

Sialkot does teach some nice statistics

partha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4004
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 15:25

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby partha » 13 Oct 2014 06:22

^
And just to recap, this is what Pak FM said in 2013 and see how they have downhill skiied :lol:
http://tribune.com.pk/story/563092/bailout-package-talks-with-imf-on-pakistans-terms-says-dar/
“Talks will also be held for a programme but on terms and conditions of Pakistan,” said Dar. The IMF’s dictation will not be accepted, he added.

partha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4004
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 15:25

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby partha » 13 Oct 2014 06:51

UlanBatori wrote:
partha wrote:UBji, I would like to give a bojitive spin to "Give peace a chance, destroy Pakistan" and say "Break up Pakistan to save Pakistan." 8)


U mean, pee bissfool and make it just Give Peace A Chance?

If "destroy Pakistan" becomes obvious and common knowledge then nothing like it.

partha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4004
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 15:25

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby partha » 13 Oct 2014 06:55

http://www.dawn.com/news/1137631/pm-likely-to-visit-china-next-month
LAHORE: Minister for Railways Khawaja Saad Rafique has said that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif is likely to visit China next month to urge Chinese businessmen to make investment in infrastructure development projects in the country.

“Ministries concerned are busy in homework for the visit,” Mr Rafique said at a news conference here on Sunday. The prime minister will ask Chinese businessmen to help Pakistan develop infrastructure in sectors of ports and shipping, energy, railways and highways.

Hain? Weren't we told that the Chinese were coming to Pakistan with $35 Billion investment and that the visit of the Chinese premier was only postponed and not cancelled? What's the need for begging for investment if 11 Jinping's visit with $35B investment money should be happening anytime now?

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6769
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby CRamS » 13 Oct 2014 07:24

Looks like things have indeed quietened down. On the lighter domestic side, ModiJi was indeed right on the money when he said things will be fine. His haters must be seething in anger :-).

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3622
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Kashi » 13 Oct 2014 07:46

partha wrote:Some Paki loser called Tariq Peerzada made a complete fool of himself. Anybody knows who he is? Was he a diplomat?


He doesn't need to do so since he's one. He's a quintessential RAPE as Shiv so eloquently described in his ebook, inbred, puffed up with false bravado, hyperbolic, steeped in hatred of Hindus, drop the work nuke at the every opportunity- the only difference is while many RAPEs may pretend to appear rational at least publicly, this Muppet does away with that entirely and fully displays his inner Pakistaniyat.

If I recall correctly, he was the one who threatened to nuke India in one of the earlier TV programs which also included Nitin Gadkari (this was just before the swearing in) to which Gadkari replied with something to the effect of..we are not congress and you'll be paid back in the same coin or even worse.

Having people like him on Indian TV shows does have a positive outcome..more and more people see these fellows in action on Indian TV instead of youtube videos and that goes some distance in shaping opinions and perspectives about Pakis..people begin to see through the gibberish of "we are the same people only", especially when someone claims that Eid in India is about the Yeendu philosophy, I think even the thickest viewer will take note. Remember the laughter and disbelief in VC's show? The people assembled could scarcely believe how delusional this nut was and his comments were so outrageous that there was no way someone in NDTV could spin it as otherwise..

johneeG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3473
Joined: 01 Jun 2009 12:47

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby johneeG » 13 Oct 2014 08:01

Anujan wrote:
Sonugn wrote:Use your mandate to resolve Kashmir issue: Imran Khan tells Modi

I thought that Indians in general and Hindus in particular had small hearts.


Modi should give Imran Khan some advice too.
Imran Khan! I give you free suggestion. Pakistan people have not given you a mandate. You should first get one


Unfortunately for the Bakis, Modi seems to be actually trying to resolve Kashmir. And if Bakis are not careful, Modi might just resolve Bakiland also.

pankajs wrote:Its all Modi's fault
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/ ... 3H20141012

Modi's bravado ups the ante in India-Pakistan fighting
(Reuters) - To judge from the shrill outrage of India's TV news channels, the past week's bloody clashes along the border dividing Kashmir are all Pakistan's fault: one network has been plugging the Twitter hashtag #PakBorderDare.

However, military officers in both countries and officials in New Delhi say the violence that has killed nearly 20 civilians escalated because of a more assertive Indian posture under the new government of nationalist Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

"The message we have been given from the prime minister's office is very clear and precise," said a senior Indian Home Ministry official. "The prime minister's office has instructed us to ensure that Pakistan suffers deep and heavy losses."

In his first extensive comments on the violence, Modi told a political rally on Thursday - when 1,000 Indian mortars rained across into Pakistan - that "it is the enemy that is screaming".

"The enemy has realized that times have changed and their old habits will not be tolerated," he said.

The exchange of mortar and gunfire across a populated border area of Jammu, in the lowlands of Kashmir, has been India's most serious brush with Pakistan in a decade.

Almost 20,000 Indian civilians have fled their homes to escape the fighting, taking refuge in schools and relief camps.

The guns fell quiet on Friday, hours before the Nobel committee named an Indian child rights crusader and Pakistan's teenage education activist Malala Yousafzai as this year's Peace Prize winners. But heavy firing resumed on Saturday And continued into the early hours of Sunday.

Modi's robust approach towards Pakistan, supporters say, is aimed at emphasizing India's superior strength and making Pakistan's military think twice before firing across the border.

It is a strategy he also used to stand up to India's larger neighbor, China, during a border standoff between several hundred Indian and Chinese troops on the Tibetan plateau that coincided with President Xi Jinping's visit to New Delhi last month.

But the new stance risks more violence in the Himalayan region of Kashmir, already one of the world's most volatile fault lines, and has eroded a border truce that has largely held between India and Pakistan since 2003.

The nuclear-armed rivals have fought two of their three wars since independence in 1947 over Kashmir, which is divided between them and claimed in full by both.

Since Modi's election victory in May, military commanders have been encouraged to step up border patrols and retaliate with more force if they come under attack. New Delhi has insisted there can be no talks with Pakistan unless it ends shootings and pushing militants into the Indian side of Kashmir.

"This is what we feared would happen if Modi came to power," said Ikram Sehgal, a former Pakistani military officer and chairman of one of the country's largest security companies.

"This could easily escalate into something that won't be good for Pakistan or India."

RISKY GAMBLE

India may be gambling that Pakistan can ill afford to inflame hostilities in Kashmir while its army is engaged in a full-blown offensive against jihadi militants close to Afghanistan.

But the stakes are also high for India.

An editorial in the Indian Express on Friday called for cooler heads, saying further escalation would damage India's reputation as a responsible nation and attractive investment destination, and could rekindle a separatist insurgency on its side of Kashmir.

Officials say India's new policy is being orchestrated by Ajit Doval, the country's national security adviser, a decorated former intelligence official renowned for his role in dangerous counter-insurgency missions. He has long advocated tough action against Pakistan-based militant groups.

In conversations with Reuters as head of a right-wing think tank in New Delhi before he joined the new government, Doval said India must lay down core security policies, one of which was "zero tolerance" for acts of violence.

In August, after days of cross-border firing between India and Pakistan, Doval attended a meeting at the Home Ministry along with the head of the para-military Border Security Force (BSF) and a decision was taken to give a free hand to the ground commanders in Jammu, a top security official in the region told Reuters.

Until then, the BSF, which guards the Jammu section of the border with Pakistan, had complained that instructions on how to respond to provocations were unclear.

"It is a very tough stand that our top bosses want us to take against Pakistan and the tone is very different from the previous government," said the Home Ministry official.

"The previous government indulged in lip service. Publicly the former home and defense minister would showcase an assertive stand against Pakistan but actually neither BSF nor the army was given a free hand."

A spokesman for India's defense ministry did not respond to requests for comments.Pakistani military leaders say they have been taken aback by the level of aggression of Indian forces over the last week.

At a time when the Pakistan army is combating militants in the tribal areas in its northwest they do not want the distraction of battling India on its eastern flank, they said.

"India is deliberately putting pressure on Pakistani security forces by opening this new front," said a senior Pakistani military official posted on the border. "The message from India is clear: 'We will teach you a lesson.'"

Indians in the border areas of Kashmir, who have lived through decades of cross-border firing, said they themselves had noticed a change in tactics by the Indian forces.

"Pakistan fires one, our boys fire six back," said Atma Ram, 71, who was standing about 300 meters (yards) from the electrified fence that separates the two countries in the Suchetgarh area near Jammu. "They are giving a response we should have given before."


Yep, Modi is a rabid Hindhuthva guy looking to establish Akhand Bhaarath. Bakis should be the rational ones. Otherwise, Modi might go bombastic.

----
johneeG wrote:To me the strange thing is: whenever there is tension on Bhaarath-baki border, there are wails of new-clear flash point from western outlets. This time, there have not been such wails till now. Why?


Link to post

LokeshC wrote:Here are some random thoughts on why nucular phlashpoint has not been used yet:

1) Could be because Bakis have lost credibility in the eyes of average wersten man (and woman).
2) could be that reality of the situation (i.e. where India stands and where Bakis stand) has sunk in to a large number of media folks.
3) Could be that everyone started going "yaaaawnnn, we know, whats news..., hey there is a new child rapist in brishitstain" aka hunting for higher TRP.

kmkraoind wrote:
johneeG wrote:To me the strange thing is: whenever there is tension on Bhaarath-baki border, there are wails of new-clear flash point from western outlets. This time, there have not been such wails till now. Why?


1. Actually new-clear flash point is being used to browbeat India, but after ISIS and AQ headaches, no body wants to strengthen Islamic new-clear weapons in any way (even diplomatically).
2. Ajit Doval staying a few days in US more then Modi. I bet he met have policy makers in US and had given what India is expecting and what US can expect from India. Probably, they will adhere to that unwritten code.
3. After OBL incident, I bet US must have secured most of strategic assets of Pak. Even I read somewhere here in the forum recently that their F-16 cannot be used as Pakis will. So Us have placed tighter controls on Pak. US know that India has intention of spoiling its growth story with Nuclear blackmails and Pak cojones are in US hands, so no worry of escalation.
4. US needs a big ally in Asia, either to tame PRC or Araps, so anything that spoils India's growth story is not in interest of US, so they must have given red lines to big news corporations. No doubt leftists like NYT can cross some yellow lines, but not all lines. All US news papers will depend on US establishment for such global juicy bits.

I bet after PNS Zulfiquar incident (either it may be hijack or an effort to steal new-clear material), US-India must have come to on same page on many things.

pankajs wrote:Noclear phlashpoint argument is aimed at the Indian public onleee and is effective only till such time that it is believed by the Indian masses. The moment it is ripped apart in public by Modi by perusing retaliation in face of noclear blackmail it stops being a factor except when it is used.

The Pakis, west and the WKK's realized that the only way to preserve the sanctity of the noclear umbrella in the face of Modi's stand is to leave it in the background for the moment.


Saars,
there are two points:
a) Generally, the western outlets & their dheshi proxies start wailing about new-clear flash-point.
b) One is told that all the previous regimes's hands were tied due to new-clear weapons.

a) Why are the western outlets & their dheshi proxies not wailing about new-clears this time?
Somehow the answers given by you guys is not convincing to me. Raising the specter of new-clear weapons would be not be such a big deal for people like Aholedesai or his compatriots. As for west, its always looking to do equal equal. Just look at the noble prize. So, why are they not wailing about new-clears? If we understand that, then perhaps it will be key to dealing with this new-clear wailings in future also.

b) One is told that all the previous regimes's hands were tied due to new-clear weapons.
Earlier, it was cold war. During cold war, Amirkhan would jump in to protect the Bakis directly. After the cold war, bakis have been under the protection of new-clear umbrella. Previous Bhaarath's regimes have tacitly sent signals that it is the new-clears which are stopping the Bhaarath. Then, why are they not stopping Modi? Is Modi not afraid of new-clears? What if the Bakis are really mad? What if they use new-clear weapons against Bhaarath? That would be a disaster for Bhaarath, no? So, why is not Modi afraid like his predecessors?

I think the only answer is:
muraliravi wrote:The nuclear flashpoint has not been used simply becos bakistan has no nukes and India knows this very well. Barking dogs dont bite. Have you ever seen a country which really has nukes go around telling the world that we are nuclear armed 1000 times a day. Those who have it dont open their mouth. Have you ever seen Indian GOI establishment claim about our nukes day in and day out. Reality is bakis dont have nukes. Its a different matter that if push comes to shove, *deleted* will lend them some. But do they have any of their own, the answer is a no.


I think this is the only answer to explain Modi's fearlessness. Bakis are nuke nude.

So, what was protecting the Bakis all these days was not the new-clears. No, it was the kongis who were protecting the Bakis.

In a way, the Baki-army(RAPEs) & kongis(Elites) are both products/proxies of the west. So, both of them protect each other.

aditya wrote:
@Vikram_Sood: This was written by @tufailelif in 2013. Makes me proud to be an Indian. We must all reread this. http://archives.dailytimes.com.pk/edito ... fail-ahmad


India is able to offer these freedoms to its citizens because it is a successful democracy. It was good for India to lose the 1857 war; if the British had lost, Indians would have continued to be governed by kings and nawabs, and under shari'a courts that existed during the Mughal era. At the time of independence, the British left behind a justice system that was blind to religious and caste inequities in Indian society, an inclusive democracy that guaranteed equal rights and religious and political freedoms for all; English language that opened doorway to enlightenment and scientific education; and a civil service that treated everyone as Indians rather than Muslims, Hindus or Christians.


Hmmm... Further from the above article by Tufail Ahmed

Effectively, India is a 'western' country. :| In the popular imagination, the west is viewed as a geographic concept, covering mainly the United States, Britain and parts of Europe. However, the ground realities are otherwise. Several countries, notably Australia, New Zealand, Japan and South Korea, are situated in the east, but in terms of their values and politics are firmly part of the west. Conversely, countries such as Russia and some in Latin America are geographically in the west but cannot be called a western country as their citizens do not enjoy the social and political freedoms available to free people in the west. The organising principles of Indian polity and society are the same that define a western country: a multi-party system, individualism, liberty, a free press and rule of law.


It may or may not be noteworthy that a former Indian intelligence chief has endorsed the above, wholesale.

However, on a related track, Jaideep A. Prabhu @orsoraggiante opines:

http://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/the ... ar-BB897SI

The state of Indian academia is just as depressing; not a single programme is considered among the world's best, Indian journals have no presence in their fields, and few professors have publications in the most esteemed journals and presses. As a result, students seek out Western universities which have better libraries, better informed professors, and access to the best academic journals. These institutions inevitably pass on the value systems and priorities of the host culture to their students. The cumulative effect of this knowledge system is that an Indian who wishes to study Iranian history or Shintoism will most likely end up looking at his subject through Western eyes.

At a practical level, the reliance on Western universities and thinktanks subverts any uniquely Indian perspective - if it exists - from emerging.
The spread of post-Enlightenment European rationalism posited several false universals such as linear history, time, and Liberalism that are only now being noticed, ironically more so in Western universities. The loss of indigenous voices is damaging not just nationally but also internationally for two reasons: one, the burden of Third World progress falls squarely on the West and its unique experience, and two, the implantation of Western values on local cultures has failed time and again in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia.


Now which think tank does Tufail Ahmed work for? ...

Link

True, India is a western country. Kangrez was setup be westerners. Bakiland is also a western country. The difference between average western country and India or Bakiland is: India is populated by mostly non-western Hindhus whereas Bakiland is populated by mostly non-western Muslims. This is the difference between an average western country and India or Bakiland.

This is the definition of proxy-colonialism: Rulers are westernized and the ruled are non-western.

The election of Modi is precisely changing these contours. By ejecting the kongis, Modi has started a process of de-colonization in Bhaarath. If this process continues it will have affect on entire region from Iran to Indonesia and Tibet to Lanka. All the artificial entities will find it hard to exist. All these artificial entities were created and sustained by the west and its proxies, particularly kongis.

partha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4004
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 15:25

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby partha » 13 Oct 2014 09:27

From TOI:
While Aziz accused India of deliberate ceasefire violations and blamed it for the deteriorating LoC security situation, there was no official reaction from the Indian government with sources here saying India did not have to react to all frivolous charges or demands made by Islamabad.

+1.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21144
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Prem » 13 Oct 2014 09:33

Pakistan wants peace, trade with India, says Dar
Off Course, Pookarstan always want

WASHINGTON: Federal Minister for Finance Ishaq Dar (Who is on begging spree) said has said that Pakistan wanted peace in the region but would fittingly respond if India tried to impose war on the country, DawnNews reported.The finance minister made the statements during a press briefing in Washington on Sunday. Dar is currently in Washington to discuss a range of strategic and economic issues with US lawmakers as well as members of international financial institutions.He said that for progress in the region, it was pertinent to promote trade activities, adding that Pakistan wanted to maintain peaceful ties with India.Dar said it was clear that many wars have been fought in vain.His remarks come as skirmishes between the India and Pakistan sides across the Line of Control (LoC) and the working boundary continue, having inflicted casualties on both sides.According to a press release issued by the foreign ministry in Islamabad yesterday, Indian firing has so far killed 12 civilians and injured 52 in Pakistan this month.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23837
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby SSridhar » 13 Oct 2014 10:24

CRamS wrote: . . . or that foul mouth abida hussein (she pissed on dorknob by categorically asserting that Hafeez pig is a "social worker") etc . . .

She comes from Jhang, the Mecca of Pakistani terrorism, jihad and sectarianism. What else do you expect?

johneeG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3473
Joined: 01 Jun 2009 12:47

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby johneeG » 13 Oct 2014 10:29

CRamS wrote: . . . or that foul mouth abida hussein (she pissed on dorknob by categorically asserting that Hafeez pig is a "social worker") etc . . .


Saar,
I don't know why you always use such words for Bhaarath & Bhaarathiyas. It was Arnab who exposed her as a jihadi sympathizer. Before that she was trying to posture herself as a peacenik in the show. But, once she called Hafeez as 'social worker', her credibility was gone.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13653
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby pankajs » 13 Oct 2014 10:35

I used to be totally against having Pakis on Indian TV but now I do think there is some benefit in having them on Indian TV and provoke them to summon up inner pakistaniyat on live tv.

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6948
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Anujan » 13 Oct 2014 10:38

Pakis should be regretting all the blustering they did during MMS time instead of taking the deals offered to them. Remember that Nawaz didn't want to grant MFN during MMS term thinking that he would get a better deal sheet the elections? Now they are claiming that they wanted to gift MFN to the new dispensation so that they could have a new beginning. Trust the pakis to find creative ways to lie.

By the way. To jog peoples memories.
http://m.rediff.com/news/1999/jul/06aziz.htm
Pakistan Foreign Minister Sartaj Aziz has said that some progress on the Kashmir issue was needed to persuade the militants to withdraw from the Kargil sector.

''If the Mujahideen or the freedom fighters, as we call them, are going to be persuaded to withdraw, then they obviously would do so if the world is paying some attention to their concerns and their right of self-determination,'' Aziz told BBC World Television from Washington.

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6860
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby habal » 13 Oct 2014 10:44

As long as they don't grant something as insignificant as the MFN, then it means nothing to India, but it signifies to world community that Pakistan is still not ready to integrate into the region and the world.

One step wrong, and USA, Israel, India & NATO will attack Pakistan from 4 sides and reduce them into a rump Pakjab state with civilian leadership that does whatever is asked of them.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23837
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby SSridhar » 13 Oct 2014 10:51

On the question of 'pulverizing Pakistani posts' and whether it will work, we are sure it won't work. The point is in recognizing the fact that the strategic culture of the Pakistani Army is to defeat India. It believes that it can do so over a period of time. It believes that India will crumble on its own weight and its internal contradictions. It believes that it has to help the forces of internal dissension in making this happen. It calls for attacking India from within while maintaining pressure militarily and diplomatically. The original 'Pearl of Strings' was authored by Pakistan but usurped by China later on because of its clout, influence and deep pockets. These are the bases of Op. Topaz as formulated by Gen. Zia-ul-Haq to 'inflict a thousand cuts to bleed India to death'. This project is a work in progress and every Pakistani leader has acquiesced in it irrespective of his/her other issues with the Pakistani Army or even among themselves.

This realization calls for a multi-pronged approach from us too. So far, we have limited ourselves to protecting ourselves against attacks, or defeating the Pakistani Army in wars, or exposing Pakistani perfidy (which the rest of the world is not too keen to appreciate), or hoping to resolve issues through talks, or generally reacting to Pakistani diplomatic moves. This reactive approach will not bring us any dividends. Nor is there a single magic bullet to resolving Pakistan. Our efforts must be holistic, covering the entire gamut of Pakistani state and its tentacles. But, this calls for a conclusion to be reached that we have exhausted all avenues to normalize relationship with this entity called Pakistan and future efforts will bring us only more and more diminishing returns and may even harm our integrity, sovereignty, well-being and our goals to eliminate poverty from and provide security to our nation. I think that though such a point was reached a long time back, the political courage to come to grips with that conclusion and act accordingly have been lacking so far.

I hope that the massive retaliation is an indication of future course of action along the only line left for us to deal with Pakistan.

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5782
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby vishvak » 13 Oct 2014 10:56

habal wrote:As long as they don't grant something as insignificant as the MFN, then it means nothing to India, but it signifies to world community that Pakistan is still not ready to integrate into the region and the world.

One step wrong, and USA, Israel, India & NATO will attack Pakistan from 4 sides and reduce them into a rump Pakjab state with civilian leadership that does whatever is asked of them.

So why hasn't NATO attacked pakis already? Fact is that Pakistan, with all the pakistaniyat and generations of terrorists and pseudos, is terrorist munna of fourfathers.

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6860
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby habal » 13 Oct 2014 11:02

they have a time-frame for everything. By 2016, if Pakistan does not mend it's ways by then and integrate into ASEAN or the Indian economic zone effectively. It will culled.

Proof of this is in the foreign private inflows into Pakistan. There is no FDI or FII coming into Pakistan. Pakistan army can read these tea leaves well, it still is reluctant to loosen it's grip over the country, and it's nervousness is what shows in its antics on the border. If they can't mend their ways, they will have to go. Pakistan will go ahead, but it will be without this army.

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5782
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby vishvak » 13 Oct 2014 11:23

Sorry, but what do we care? We don't want inbred psychos 'integrated' in the Indian economic zone or coopting in other zone, do we. We seem to have missed memo on dormant malsi or is it another WU mess.

Pakistan is result of invaders from the west, let them sort it out or fall to the absurd pakis.

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6860
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby habal » 13 Oct 2014 11:48

that is the western agenda, do you think India will be able to resist forming an emerging coalition against Pakistan army.

Look at the way the cards are placed.

1) Qadri & Imran parachuted into Pakistan. They are a long term play. Qadri is supposed to be a 'moderate leader' and Imran a playboy with jewish wife. In short, the western vision of 'moderate leadership'.
2) C. Fair has suddenly started railing against Pakistan army in all the famous institutes in the world. CFR, Hudson etc.
3) Prominent Americans are suddenly appearing on clips in youtube openly against Pakistan (army) hypocrisy.
4) No FDI/FII coming into Pakistan. It is going to all other places for any variety of reasons.
5) Joint statement by Obama/Modi in tackling terrorism in Afpak region.
6) Withdrawal from Afghanistan will complete by 2015.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23837
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby SSridhar » 13 Oct 2014 11:51

The beggar is preparing grounds for more begging
In this respect, he said the country has already spent a huge amount of Rs 46 billion for relief of internally displaced persons from Zarb-i-Azb operation, and the flood affectees.

He said these two expenses are massive, with the flood relief and recovery cost likely to be Rs. 80 billion. Another major amount would be needed for reconstruction once the Zarb-i-Azb operation under way in North Waziristan concludes.

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6948
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Anujan » 13 Oct 2014 12:03

^^^
Six drone attacks in Past week. No way Pakistan will fulfill IMF conditions by december. Kerry-Lugar last tranche ended in September. So connect the dots :mrgreen:

RCase
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2034
Joined: 02 Sep 2011 22:50
Location: Awaiting the sabbath of Fry djinns

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby RCase » 13 Oct 2014 12:20

SSridhar wrote:The beggar is preparing grounds for more begging
In this respect, he said the country has already spent a huge amount of Rs 46 billion for relief of internally displaced persons from Zarb-i-Azb operation, and the flood affectees.

He said these two expenses are massive, with the flood relief and recovery cost likely to be Rs. 80 billion. Another major amount would be needed for reconstruction once the Zarb-i-Azb operation under way in North Waziristan concludes.

That is such a lie. There will be no monies spent on reconstruction. They still haven't done reconstruction for destruction due to floods that happened a few years ago. Even the KKH that was cut off due to the landslide, has not been restored.

member_22733
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3788
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby member_22733 » 13 Oct 2014 12:22

RCaseji,

That is precisely why they need more money. To fix all of that.

RCase
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2034
Joined: 02 Sep 2011 22:50
Location: Awaiting the sabbath of Fry djinns

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby RCase » 13 Oct 2014 13:20

Has anyone been monitoring the Paki news media lately? Almost all seem to be parroting the ISPR version that goes along the lines:

1. Modi's US trip did not go well. Modi fasting while on US visit was a show. Ombaba and the 'US Establishment' felt slighted that they could not eat a good dinner!
2. The massive reception by desis at MSG did not sit well with the US Establishment that it's citizens and permanent residents of Indian origin were rooting for a foreigner.
3. Modi is trying to gain in the elections by targeting Pakistan on the LoC and 'Working' border
4. All media references are 'Working' border. Is that code for working on trying to change it by Ghazwa-e-hind? (However, with the UN, they never mentioned 'Working Border' and instead used the correct term 'International Border')
5. India is afraid of Zarb-e-Azb :lol:
6. India has been busy killing only civilians in the working border, LoC skirmish.
7. Paki fauj has given befitting reply to India.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23837
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby SSridhar » 13 Oct 2014 13:49

RCase wrote:5. India is afraid of Zarb-e-Azb :lol:
6. India has been busy killing only civilians in the working border, LoC skirmish.
7. Paki fauj has given befitting reply to India.

IMV, these mean that they got a good pasting at IB.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13653
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby pankajs » 13 Oct 2014 14:21

That sums it up

ANI ‏@ANI_news 28m28 minutes ago

Pak can beat their drum but its India they have to talk to but for that they need to create a peaceful environment: Siddharth N Singh, BJP

Neela
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3637
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 15:05
Location: Spectator in the dossier diplomacy tennis match

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Neela » 13 Oct 2014 14:32

You see cripples who show their grotesque handicap , elicit sympathy and beg using that.
Pakis do just that. Show their floods, their IDPs,etc to beg for money.
When sympathy does not work, the beggars will increase their nuisance value.

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6769
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby CRamS » 13 Oct 2014 16:04

RCaseJi,

Absolutely, its almost as if all of them have been trained like robots to repeat those same lies. One more thing I might add, note every RAPE who comes on Indian TV will also repeat this "both sides need to fight poverty" etc. One significant change from yesteryear is their demand on the "core issue". Previously, talks only to talk about "core issue" while India was saying lets make piss first. Now, the RAPEs while they do mention the "core issue", are vociferous about pee-pee contact, trade etc.

Baikul
BRFite
Posts: 1133
Joined: 20 Sep 2010 06:47

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Baikul » 13 Oct 2014 17:08

IMHO, the one thing, that matters is that Pakistan's punishment be undeniably visible to the world. I just cannot discount Pakistani shamelessness and their ability to blatantly lie, not just to others, but themselves. Unless blatantly obvious, they are capable of presenting Titanic level disasters as stunning victories.

This is a nation that has been America's whore for decades, starting with Jinnah who made pimping Pakistan a part of his geopolitical credo ("strategic location") and yet for decades has claims to political and moral leadership of the region.

This is a nation that saw the world's most recognizable terrorist Osama Bin Laden killed in a blaze of publicity in its military backyard in a massive firefight and first refused to accept the story and, second, claimed it was a hoax then, third, claimed a conspiracy.

This is a nation that claims 1965 was a victory, Kargil nearly a knockout blow.

Today, we may have justification in claiming that our arty is presently blowing Pakistani regiments off the map across the LOC. The world may recognize it as punishment but Pakistani leaders who are taught to lie with their mother's milk will spin it as a great victory for Pakistan, Islam and Jihad.

How, in the case of a nation uniquely capable of lying to the world and itself on a daily basis, will we inflict punishment that is recognized as punishment (assuming we indeed need to do it)? One option is the one suggested earlier on this page- keep punishing them, until (even as they claim victory every time) the sum of punishments so accumulates as to destroy their army and by extension their power structures and current geographical disposition.

Or inflict a smaller punishment that is so visible and conclusive that no call to echandee can hide it. 1971 is a punishment that they cannot forget. So, next time there's a serious violation, we take a part of their land. A small part. And say we took it because of well publicized reasons. And keep it.

I do not claim we can follow through on the second option which could lead to war. But it's a thought, one I find very tempting.

Harish
BRFite
Posts: 140
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 10:30
Location: Bharat

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Harish » 13 Oct 2014 17:24

So finally how many pakjihadi fistulas were actually halaled? I have heard some numbers bandied about (165 was the last I heard) but is there anything official from the Indian side? I ofcourse don't trust the pakis to tell the truth.

RCase
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2034
Joined: 02 Sep 2011 22:50
Location: Awaiting the sabbath of Fry djinns

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby RCase » 13 Oct 2014 18:28

^^^
Sir ji, per ISPR spin, all those halaled on the Paki side would be 'innocent muslim civilians' onlee!

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby shiv » 13 Oct 2014 18:55

Baikul wrote:IMHO, the one thing, that matters is that Pakistan's punishment be undeniably visible to the world.

The world need to see nothing as long as Pakis feel pain. If they want to publicize the extent of damage - that will show what has been done by the IA. They may fight shy of that. Chances are bunkers, ammo dumps and stores have accurately been blasted to smithereens.

They will want to regain echandee by firing some more - and that must receive a robust response. Their ammunition stocks need to be tested and their army must be forced to spend more money on this.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20610
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Philip » 13 Oct 2014 19:46

Too true.The Pakis behave only when their backside is shafted by a sharp pointed object with the tip dipped in chilly powder.They mistake kindness for weakness and silence for fear.As good old Chairman Mao said,"a loud fart is better than a long speech".India under Mr.Modi has through the IA farted loud and clear in the direction of Pak.

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Shrinivasan » 13 Oct 2014 19:48

shiv wrote:
Baikul wrote:IMHO, the one thing, that matters is that Pakistan's punishment be undeniably visible to the world.

...Chances are bunkers, ammo dumps and stores have accurately been blasted to smithereens.
..and their army must be forced to spend more money on this.
Shiv: I think the punishment needs to be public as well as private. Public by destroying their Military infrastructure in the border, publishing photos taken by drones as well as RAA agints in shitland. Private by taking out Jihadi camps and leaders by covert action. icing on the cake will be some attack by "Non State Actors" on GHQ or some large Sunni Mosque / Madrassa.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: schinnas, Shakthi, vera_k and 19 guests