Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct 2014

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby partha » 20 Oct 2014 07:46

My theory is that even though recent attempts to dislodge badmash failed, deep state won't give up easily and will try again in the near future and there could be another election possible. I think all parties expect this to happen. Hence IK and Qadri are still going on with their "protests". It is as if their handlers have told them "hang in there, we're working on a new plan". PPP might just have started early preparations for elections. Bakwas Bhutto's Kashmir statements were probably issued to appease the army and signal that army can trust him to dance to their tunes.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Anujan » 20 Oct 2014 08:04

Also frothing in the mouth on Cashmere works in Pakjab. Sindh and Balochistan give two hoots about it. Another Pakjab card is "India stealing water". Expect him to play that one soon too.

One thing that amazes me about Pakistan is that the Army GUBOs some people, but those people turn around and become staunch army supporters. Sherry was one of them. When Botox babe was assassinated, she was in the car came out strongly against the sunroof lever theory and was pretty much anti-army. Except they made her chief of the jinnah institute, gave a veneer of credibility for her. When good Haqqani was booted out, Army insisted she take his place. She then rendered yeoman service for the Army.

Same same with Groper. Was sent packing by the Army-Judiciary combine. Now came out strongly pro-army against Nawaz by making pro-Mush noises. It is as though everyone knows which side the bread is buttered. I wouldnt be surprised of Blowhard stitches up some deal or other with the Army (Despite the good Haqqani's wife being his staunchest supporter. She is a US citizen, what is she doing in all PPP rallies?). So far, Zardari is the only one who has shown some kind of a vision. Fellow hasnt sought vengeance against ISI for keeping him in prison for 8 years. Actually had pretty sane things to say about why political infighting is bad and democracy should be strengthened and Nawaz should complete his term.

Though we laugh at him, ten-percenti could be the best statesman Pakistan ever produced. :shock:

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Prem » 20 Oct 2014 08:49

Paki MARS=Mush Aching aft Raw Sekksing

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Raja Bose » 20 Oct 2014 09:15

Anujan wrote:Bilawal has shot off his mouth and made Altaf Bhai quite angry. Here is a X post of his speech from the BENIS dhaaga

Nikhil T wrote:Bakistan's heir apparent Bakwas Bhutto's speech. This boy is seriously funny - he doesn't know Urdu and his public speaking skills are so poor. He's clearly out of place and yet in the video he's is to dispel the notion that he's PPP chairman because a Bhutto.

If you don't have much time, just watch from 15:00 to 16:00, 23:00 to 24:00. :rotfl:

Vimeo Speech


Please dont miss the 15:00 to 16:00, 23:00 to 24:00.


Actually definitely don't miss 25:00 - 26:00. Blowhard indulges in some amazing breast beating like a pro rudali. :rotfl:

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Prem » 20 Oct 2014 09:20

http://tribune.com.pk/story/777943/new- ... -security/
New dimensions of security

Now, the Indian Army and Modi’s national security establishment decided to take a limited risk by striking on Pakistani territory from the Jammu area, which is not separated by the international boundary but by the LoC or the Working Boundary. In this way, India is using the cover of Kashmir to target Pakistani territory. This cannot be viewed as a violation of the international border.
India’s army and its national security establishment is now experimenting with a new strategy to deal with Pakistan. Refusing to subscribe to the well-known argument that a stable Pakistan is in the interest of India, the new thinking in India’s official circles is that it should be more active in supporting dissident and separatist groups in Pakistan and helping militant groups that challenge the Pakistani state. For this reason, relations with, and presence in, Afghanistan is important. This provides India with access to Pakistan’s Baloch dissident elements and some Taliban groups. India is expected increase support to these groups. What these groups need is funding, which can be provided by India and other states that want to take advantage of Pakistan’s internal problems.

Another set of security challenges is arising on Pakistan’s northwestern borders with Afghanistan. The withdrawal of American and Nato troops from Afghanistan by the end of 2014 needs to be examined in a dispassionate manner in order to cope with the security situation in Afghanistan in 2015 and onwards. If the internal conflict in Afghanistan escalates and the Afghan Taliban become entrenched in Afghan areas adjoining Pakistan, this will have a negative impact on Pakistan’s tribal areas. It is, therefore, important that Pakistan helps the Afghan government to cope with its internal problems. This serves Pakistan’s interests because if the Afghan Taliban become strong, it will embolden the Pakistani Taliban and other militant groups.. A lack of control of territory by militant groups undermines their capacity to threaten the Pakistani state. This will also make it difficult for foreign fighters to find sanctuary in Pakistan.Pakistan should also adopt effective measures to strengthen security arrangements on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. This should be done even if Afghanistan is not willing to cooperate. The surveillance of the border by electronic and human means should be done. This can be reinforced by strengthening border security posts for controlling the unauthorised movement of people, especially that of militants. If the tribal areas and the Pakistan-Afghanistan border are secured, it will be possible to control the negative fallout of the increased internal strife in Afghanistan.Further, Pakistan must take the initiative to cultivate the new Afghan government so that it discards Hamid Karzai’s anti-Pakistan posture. President Ashraf Ghani and the Chief Executive Dr Abdullah Abdullah should be invited to Islamabad or Lahore.Pakistan should project its new counter-terrorism policy in the tribal areas and on the Afghanistan-Pakistan borders at the international level. This will help build a positive image for Pakistan at the global level. Pakistan’s diplomacy must also expose India’s new aggressive agenda towards it, to all friendly countries, especially the states that have good relations with India.Pakistan should let the international community know that the armed conflicts on the LoC are not local or accidental incidents. Rather, these are well-planned actions by India against Pakistan. India’s aggressive policy towards Pakistan is not going to fade away. It will continue to build military pressure on Pakistan from time to time. Therefore, while responding to India’s military action in military terms, Pakistan must also resort to preventive diplomacy so that it does not have to shift its troops to the LoC or to the international border with India from the tribal areas and the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby gandharva » 20 Oct 2014 09:59

ICYMI: India-Pakistan Head for Nuke War

Bruce Riedel

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ce=twitter

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Shreeman » 20 Oct 2014 10:47

Raja Bose wrote:
Anujan wrote:Bilawal has shot off his mouth and made Altaf Bhai quite angry. Here is a X post of his speech from the BENIS dhaaga

quote="Nikhil T"Bakistan's heir apparent Bakwas Bhutto's speech. This boy is seriously funny - he doesn't know Urdu and his public speaking skills are so poor. He's clearly out of place and yet in the video he's is to dispel the notion that he's PPP chairman because a Bhutto.

If you don't have much time, just watch from 15:00 to 16:00, 23:00 to 24:00. :rotfl:

Vimeo Speech

Please dont miss the 15:00 to 16:00, 23:00 to 24:00.


Actually definitely don't miss 25:00 - 26:00. Blowhard indulges in some amazing breast beating like a pro rudali. :rotfl:


This is a saajish.

Pakistan is the biggest victim (#victimno1 -- famous lahoribad film upcoming, patent pindi) of PPP and Bhutto clan. Now by nominating this person, they want to put the film industry (saved by maula jatt) and the BENIS intelkectuals out of business in one fell swoop. The loss to the economy will be in billions, and hundred years of culture will be wiped out because no one will watch or read anything else. Why soap opera needed when bilawajah is on the news? TV channels will lose all audiences for waaaar and ISPR will need to poay newspapers to publish its agenda. This is a naked attack on many Pakistani institutions by the west. And clearly Israeli and Hindu nationalist RAW have trained him in Bollywood. Pakistan should be refunded 5 billion dollars costs that have already been incurred for raising bilawajah.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby member_22733 » 20 Oct 2014 11:02

More than Blow-all's braying, I am surprised at the people around him. Blow-all has been compared to our own pappu maharaj, that is an apt comparison. However the people around him seem quite ok and comfy with the discourse that is going on, if one can call it that. Compare that with the reception that pappu got in most places, especially among the Q&A session among the school kids.

Bakis are not only shorter than the average SDREs, they seem to lag behind most of population in terms of IQ as well.

AoA!

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Shreeman » 20 Oct 2014 11:22

gandharva wrote:ICYMI: India-Pakistan Head for Nuke War

Bruce Riedel

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ce=twitter


So where does burning iranian flag fit in this?

Edit -- That flag is IRANIAN as presented with no semblence to indian flag intended. It is also reflective of author's understanding of the matter at this point. Nukular or otherwije.
Last edited by Shreeman on 20 Oct 2014 12:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby pankajs » 20 Oct 2014 11:50

^^
beginning of the global rudali on noclear flashpoint? Or is it a signal to our DDM's to make this their central agenda over the coming days wrt Indian retaliation?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Anujan » 20 Oct 2014 11:57

Riedel is right. To an extent. Previously it was a given that pakis will be Pakis. Fire at the border, conduct terror strikes. SDREs will be SDREs. Do nothing about it. Send a few dossiers. It was a stable arrangement. Heck, we didn't even retaliate for Kargil. Yes we bombed and pushed them out, but the action was all in our territory. Why didn't we set fire to Karachi?

As the latest round shows, the stability has been disturbed, the old arrangements and assumptions do not hold anymore. SDREs are going to retaliate and pakis will continue to be pakis.

So where will this end up? It is anybody's guess.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Agnimitra » 20 Oct 2014 12:24

A spot of love and harmony to cut the tension and warm the hearts of Rakshas and Paklurks alike:

Dia Mirza ties the knot with guy whose last name is Sanghi. In an Arya Samaj wedding.

http://m.ibnlive.com/news/snapshot-dia- ... -8-66.html

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby vishvak » 20 Oct 2014 12:51

So paki four fathers aren't talking about chaining in their rabid dog. We should be looking at four fathers of pakis through lens of pakis alone. We also got to send message when 'international' nuke watchdogs fail to bark.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Anujan » 20 Oct 2014 12:56

http://www.dawn.com/news/1139164/operat ... -officials

Shawal Valley is the next target of the armed forces operating in North Waziristan, senior officials told a gathering of Pakistani-Americans at the embassy.....Ambassador Jalil Abbas Jilani said the government planned to hold a donors’ conference in Islamabad later this year to assess what Pakistan needed to deal with militancy.

Pakistan’s immediate, “and the most urgent task”, he said was to resettle the IDPs. The country will also need some assistance to deal with the military cost of the operation.

The ambassador said that the country would need at least $2.5 billion for this purpose and was hoping that friendly nations, including the United States, would contribute.


Pakistan has lost $2.5 Billion due to Zarb-e-azb

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Shreeman » 20 Oct 2014 12:57

Anujan wrote:Riedel is right. To an extent. Previously it was a given that pakis will be Pakis. Fire at the border, conduct terror strikes. SDREs will be SDREs. Do nothing about it. Send a few dossiers. It was a stable arrangement. Heck, we didn't even retaliate for Kargil. Yes we bombed and pushed them out, but the action was all in our territory. Why didn't we set fire to Karachi?

As the latest round shows, the stability has been disturbed. SDREs are going to retaliate and pakis will continue to be pakis. So where will this end up? It is anybody's guess.


I will believe the hooha when post-mortem pre/post nakshas are presented in research papers along with methology/planning/goals/results. Until then, this is all hot air over nothing. Waste of bandwidth.

Ukraine hasnt stopped shooting, and its coming to November ( with neither coal nor gas accessible). Fat chance of changing anything here.

Late december things will cool down naturally, until then its dussehra/diwali.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby RSoami » 20 Oct 2014 13:08

Leaving aside the comical aspect of Blowall s speech, one can deduce the kinda polity and the people Pukistan has.
Speeches are written to appeal to the people. Deliberate moronery of chest beating and loudly shouting with cutting hands, legs expressions by the chairman of the opposition party gives an idea of the direction Puki polity is going.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby partha » 20 Oct 2014 13:09

Anujan wrote:http://www.dawn.com/news/1139164/operations-next-target-will-be-shawal-valley-officials
Pakistan has lost $2.5 Billion due to Zarb-e-azb

Present the next plan of action to clean up its own mess and ask for funds from world community. Why exactly should Pakistan continue to exist? And I am sure $2.5 B includes cost of rebuilding terror camps destroyed by BSF/IA across LoC.

--
That Riedel's article is refreshing. Mention of India-Pak being nuclear powers who have fought 4 wars over Kashmir came at the beginning of the article onlee instead of at the end which is what happens usually.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby vishvak » 20 Oct 2014 13:57

Why would India limit nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles as per advice of individual Americans. Looking at situation through prism of Indo-pak is very narrow indeed -especially when nuke watchdogs have been silent about nuke proliferation by pakis and silent about clandestine nuke tech acquisition by pakis.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Philip » 20 Oct 2014 15:17

I haven't laughed so much in a long time watching "Blowjob" Bhutto ranting and raving against India in his hybrid Poxford-Paki accent.I wonder what he had consumed before the meeting.he truly is a chip off the old block..head,Zulfie whom he resembles much in style and swagger.Perhaps history might repeat itself one day and we will see "Blowjob" crying at the Un after Pak has tasted yet another crushing military defeat by India!

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Neela » 20 Oct 2014 15:52

Shell the fck outta Pakis and they start waving the white flag frantically.
Why go to war with India?
6 things Pakistan and India can do instead of fighting

After reading the second, it looks more like "6 ways to infiltrate into India"

Yes, there is extremism, insurgency and intolerance and one country may have tackled it better than the other. But that's inconsequential. What matters is to let people know that it exists in pockets and thrives from the support of only a few, and that the state will never let that narrative win.

:rotfl:

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Vivasvat » 20 Oct 2014 16:41

Agnimitra wrote:A spot of love and harmony to cut the tension and warm the hearts of Rakshas and Paklurks alike:

Dia Mirza ties the knot with guy whose last name is Sanghi. In an Arya Samaj wedding.

http://m.ibnlive.com/news/snapshot-dia- ... -8-66.html

Dia Mirza Handrich on wikipedia
Her father, Frank Handrich, was a German graphic and industrial fair designer, architect, artist and interior designer from Munich and her mother, Deepa is a Bengali Hindu who is an interior designer, landscaper and currently does social work as a volunteer to help alcoholics and addicts. They separated when she was four years old.[3][4]Her father died when she was nine and her mother married Ahmed Mirza, who died in 2003.[3] She is not a Muslim although she writes her stepfather's last name as her last name.[3] She believes in Arya Samaj, a Hindu reformist movement.[4] She adopted her mother's surname and has recently adopted the last name of her birth-father, becoming Dia Mirza Handrich.
Last edited by Vivasvat on 20 Oct 2014 16:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby kish » 20 Oct 2014 16:45

Surprised, picture in the above article is not offensive to any pakis :mrgreen:

The Indian flag has a sharp, "erect" shape protruding from the middle region. Where the paki flag resembles a wide open mouth. :rotfl:

Image

Why go to war with India?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby abhijitm » 20 Oct 2014 17:30

crazy fcuking bast@rd. Listening to Blowall is immense torture...sometimes fun too...but torture nevertheless. Need to investigate whether somebody standing behind him always put 10 inch diameter pole into his arse...give a push for a shout.

I think Indian police can use his speeches as 4th degree torture.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby CRamS » 20 Oct 2014 17:52

The last part from Bruce Riedel is complete unadulterated balderdash: a combination of fear mongering & a slimy way of washing hands off TSP after making it into a monster


America is seen in South Asia as a power in decline, a perception fueled by the Afghan war. U.S. influence in New Delhi and Islamabad is low. A Clinton-like intervention to halt an escalation will be a tough act to follow. But the consequences of a nuclear exchange are almost too horrible to contemplate.



Fact is that neither US itself, nor India, nor TSP believe US is a power in decline. Its as strong a super power as ever, and it can make TSP behave or at least isolate TSP as the terrorist savage that it is, should US choose to do so. That in and of itself will go a long way, if not eliminate TSP as a nuclear threat to India first and foremost, and the world at large.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby CRamS » 20 Oct 2014 17:52

deleted

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby abhijitm » 20 Oct 2014 17:59

Raja Bose wrote:Actually definitely don't miss 25:00 - 26:00. Blowhard indulges in some amazing breast beating like a pro rudali. :rotfl:

He seems to me a transvestite. Din mein suraj, raat mein chandani

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Kashi » 20 Oct 2014 18:17

CRamS wrote:Fact is that neither US itself, nor India, nor TSP believe US is a power in decline.


The operative word..Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya (especially Benghazi) on the other hand....

CRamS wrote:Its as strong a super power as ever, and it can make TSP behave or at least isolate TSP as the terrorist savage that it is, should US choose to do so. That in and of itself will go a long way, if not eliminate TSP as a nuclear threat to India first and foremost, and the world at large.


Pakis harboured Osama, they continue to harbour Haqqanis, Mullah Omar, Zawahiri and what not. What else needs to happen for the US "choose to do so"?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby vdutta » 20 Oct 2014 18:18

The Sun calling Terrorists as Thieves.

Image

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Oct 2014 19:06

The PakFragment dhaga is nearly up to the standards of the BENIS dhaga todin. 8)

In this way, India is using the cover of Kashmir to target Pakistani territory. This cannot be viewed as a violation of the international border.
India’s army and its national security establishment is now experimenting with a new strategy to deal with Pakistan. Refusing to subscribe to the well-known argument that a stable Pakistan is in the interest of India, Indian Army is chasing the Pakistan Army and Terrorists out of their comfortable makaans wearing not even pajamas. :((


HOW long have I waited to see this statement!!

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby pankajs » 20 Oct 2014 19:08

Pawan Durani ‏@PawanDurani 1h1 hour ago

#Pakistan suspends license of TV channel ARY news for 15 days . Those not aware , many believe that this channel is funded by D-Company.
Pawan Durani ‏@PawanDurani 1h1 hour ago

ARY - Pakistan RT @shobhit_todi: @PawanDurani this channel supports imran khan a lot

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby johneeG » 20 Oct 2014 21:27

Generally, one assumes that Bakis did not start war with Bhaarath after 1971 due to defeat of 71. But, I was thinking, is it possible that the Bakis have not started the war after 1974 because of missiles?

I have no idea on this, so just consider this as thinking aloud:
Project Devil and Project Valiant seem to be two projects which were pursued. Project valiant was discontinued in 1974 and project devil was discontinued in 1980. Both were declared as failures. But, were they really failures?

wiki wrote:The Government of India launched the Integrated Guided Missile Development Program in 1983 to achieve self-sufficiency in the development and production of wide range of Ballistic Missiles, Surface to Air Missiles etc.

Prithvi was the first missile to be developed under the Program. DRDO attempted to build Surface-to-air Missile under Project Devil.[1]

Variants make use of either liquid or both liquid and solid fuels. Developed as a battlefield missile, it could carry a nuclear warhead in its role as a tactical nuclear weapon.

Link

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby shiv » 20 Oct 2014 21:29

CRamS wrote: Its as strong a super power as ever, and it can make TSP behave or at least isolate TSP as the terrorist savage that it is, should US choose to do so.

CRamS. We have been through this before.

The Paki says "God is the strongest superpower and God can defeat the US is he should choose to do so."

You know that Pakistanis say "If God should choose to do so" by using the expression "Inshallah" - "God willing"

How is your viewpoint any different from a a Pakistani who is certain that America will be defeated, God willing?

You have faith in America? Pakis have faith in Allah.

it is only us Indians who know that God and America have the same amount of power. The problem, like my aunt's missing penis, keeping her as an aunt and not an uncle, is that neither America nor God are willing. Only semantics differentiate unwillingness from incapability. The net effect of incapability and unwillingness are exactly the same. You say it is unwillingness. i say it is incapability. You have faith in American power. I have confidence in American inability. There is no proof that either you or i are wrong.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby sanjaykumar » 20 Oct 2014 21:46

http://www.dawn.com/news/1138678

Pervez Hoodbhoy deserves much more credit than given in these pages. He is quite rational except that he needs to get out of Pakistan....perhaps a teaching job at a mid-level institute in India. Not his fault he is a Pakistani.

Third, India values — nay, venerates — its top mathematicians and scientists. There is scarcely an Indian I’ve met who doesn’t know the story of Srinivasa Ramanujan, the child prodigy from Madras who astonished the world of high mathematics but tragically died at the age of 32. India is dotted with institutes bearing such names as S.N. Bose, C.V. Raman, M. Saha, and Homi Bhabha.

Back to space: a developing country looking at faraway Mars can take either the Arab way or the Chinese-Indian way.

The first needs a ticket. Petrodollars paid for Prince Salman ibn Saud, the first Arab in space, and put him aloft an American space shuttle in 1985. Recently the UAE announced plans for a Mars mission within 18 years. Just as cash and foreign experts built Dubai and its mega-sized airport, they will also put sheikhs on planets.




He has a full understanding of Hindu and Islamic culture. In this paragraph, dripping with sarcasm that no true Pakistani can use for his social superiors, the term Arab can be used as a surrogate for Islamic.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby A_Gupta » 20 Oct 2014 22:35

CRamS wrote: Its as strong a super power as ever, and it can make TSP behave or at least isolate TSP as the terrorist savage that it is, should US choose to do so.

The mirror image of this is the TSP belief that should the US choose to do so, it can wrest J&K from India and award it to TSP.

Part of the TSP anger at the US is that the US has never "chosen to do so".

But just because something can be imagined does not mean that it can be realized. We can write a book in which TSP is chained and bound by the US, or alternatively, the US takes J&K from India and awards it to TSP. But you can permanently file this in the fiction section of the library. The usual fiction disclaimer "any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental" is not even necessary. Or refer to Shiv's "my aunt would be my uncle if ....." model.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby johneeG » 20 Oct 2014 22:50

johneeG wrote:Generally, one assumes that Bakis did not start war with Bhaarath after 1971 due to defeat of 71. But, I was thinking, is it possible that the Bakis have not started the war after 1974 because of missiles?

I have no idea on this, so just consider this as thinking aloud:
Project Devil and Project Valiant seem to be two projects which were pursued. Project valiant was discontinued in 1974 and project devil was discontinued in 1980. Both were declared as failures. But, were they really failures?

wiki wrote:The Government of India launched the Integrated Guided Missile Development Program in 1983 to achieve self-sufficiency in the development and production of wide range of Ballistic Missiles, Surface to Air Missiles etc.

Prithvi was the first missile to be developed under the Program. DRDO attempted to build Surface-to-air Missile under Project Devil.[1]

Variants make use of either liquid or both liquid and solid fuels. Developed as a battlefield missile, it could carry a nuclear warhead in its role as a tactical nuclear weapon.

Link


Thinking further along these lines:
Is it possible that Bakiland's strategic depth concept is also to counter Bhaarath's missile program?

It seems that Aslam Beg is instrumental in the new war doctrines of Bakiland.
About Aslam Beg:
wiki wrote:Academia and professorship

After the 1965, Mirza was promoted as Lieutenant-Colonel in 1967 and entered in the National Defence University (NDU) to continue his higher education. His course mate included Lieutnenat-Colonel Zahid Ali Akbar who would later directed the Program-706 in the 1970s.[16]

He earned Master of Science in War studies from NDU and published his master's thesis, entitling, "A journey of pain and fear" which provide critical analysis of state sponsored terrorism and its effects on geo-military positions of the countries.[17] In 1971, he was called back to the battle assignments and commanded a SSG regiment during the 1971 war with India. After the war, he left special forces after being promoted to one-star rank, Brigadier, and moved onto to accept the war studies professorship at the NDU.[18] From 1975–78 Brigadier Mirza Aslam BeG tenured as the professor of war studies and remains Chief Instructor of Armed Forces War College (afwc) at the then National Defence University until January 1978.[18]

About the 1971 war, Beg maintained that Pakistan Armed Forces "learned a valuable strategic lesson", and that quoted that the government also learned that "there is no point in going to war unless you are absolutely certain you have the capability to win".[19] From 1994–99, Beg continued his teaching at NDU and published his two books on national security, nuclear weapons development, defence diplomacy and international relations.[20][21]


Link

wiki wrote:In reference to Pakistan

In Pakistan, the idea of strategic depth was perceived in 1980s by the NDU professor General Mirza Aslam Beg (later Chief of Army Staff working under Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto in 1980s).[1] Since then, the Pakistan military establishment has been repeatedly accused of forming a policy that seeks to control Afghanistan, a policy often referred to by the media as "strategic depth". This is given as the reason why Pakistan has supported certain factions of the Taliban in Afghanistan. The current Pakistan military leaders have denied these claims.[citation needed]
Accusations against the Pakistan military

The term "strategic depth" has been used in reference to Pakistan's utilization and contact with Afghanistan following the neighboring country's Soviet intervention, to prevent encirclement from a hostile India and a USSR-supported Afghanistan.[1] Some sources state that the policy to control Afghanistan was formulated by NDU professor, General Mirza Aslam Beg,[2] and an Indian source claims this was continued as an active policy by the Pakistan Armed Forces until the policy was "de jure abolished in 1998 and de facto abolished in 2001", period when General Pervez Musharraf was the Chairman joint chiefs.[3]

According to Richard Olson, U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan, Pakistan military's doctrine of "strategic depth" is a concept in which Pakistan uses Afghanistan as an instrument of strategic security in ongoing tensions with India by attempting to control Afghanistan as a pawn for its own political purposes.[4]

It has been speculated that the Pakistan military's "strategic depth" policy is either military or non-military in nature. The military version would state that the Pakistan military wishes to use Afghan territory as a "strategic rallying point" where they can, in the event of a successful Indian attack, retreat to and re-group for a counter-attack. The non-military version would be based on the idea that Pakistan can improve relations with other Islamic countries and former Soviet states such as Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan, developing improved economic and cultural ties with them and thus making them into strong allies against India.[5]

Link to post

So, strategic depth has two components: defensive and offensive.
- Offensive aspect: to use Afghanisthan as the area to train and create terrorists. This is to avoid a full scale war against Bhaarath because Bakiland doesn't have the capability to win the war against Bhaarath.
- Defensive aspect: Before the addition of missiles, bakiland's calculation was whether they can win the war or not or atleast if they can do a stalemate. But, after the addition of missiles, Bakiland has to calculate the additional aspect that the cost of war could be unaffordable for the bakis. Because, most of the bakiland seems to be covered by the Bhaarath's missiles. So, Afghanisthan is supposed to provide the strategic depth against the Bhaarath's missiles. This is just my guess. That means, perhaps the Bakis think that Bhaarath's missiles don't have the range to cover Asthan.

I just checked google. It seems that Afghanisthan is just above 600 KM. A missile of 600 KM range would cover most of Bakiland but would not be able to cover Asthan. So, perhaps, Bakis believe that Bhaarath's missiles have a range of 600 KM.

If Bakis also have similar range missiles, then Bakis would be only able to cover a little part of northern Bhaarath. Given that Baki navy is very weak compared to Bhaarath's navy, this becomes important. So, the question is why didn't the Bakis concentrate on developing their navy?

Generally, one assumes that strategic depth is a concept to be used against IA's ground occupation or air attacks. But, ground occupation and air attacks will meet with stiff resistance and it would not be so easy to gain swift control for Bhaarath in Bak. Further, Bakis can start guerrilla warfare using their vast terror network to tieup the ground forces in urban warfare. So, Bakiland needing strategic depth as a defense against IA seems far stretched. Further, if IA and IAF are the main threats, then the concept of strategic depth should have been formulated much before.

Why was it developed in 1980s when Bhaarath's missile program was around completion or completed?
I think Strategic depth is primarily a defence mechanism against Bhaarath's missiles.

Now, in 1984, Bhaarath went ahead and occupied Siachin and dared Bakis to go to the next step.(I know that Bakis already had the plans of occupying the Siachin and Bhaarath pre-empted it). Bakis didn't take it to the next step. They seem to have retaliated via their proxy outfits by creating terrorism in Bhaarath. After that, Bakis may have had similar plans of occupying the Kargil area.

Finally, mushy seems to have executed them. Perhaps, Bakis thought that just as Bakis kept quiet after Siachin was taken by Bhaarath, similarly, Bhaarath would keep quiet when Kargil is occupied by Bakis. But, Bhaarath didn't keep quiet.

The reaction of Bhaarath seems to have been unexpected by the Bakis. They perhaps feared a fullscale war and missile attacks. So, they threatened to take it to MAD level of bombarding each other with missiles. Dilli would be under the Baki missiles while lahore would be under the Bhaarath's missiles.

Bhaarath decided not to risk it and keep within LOC. Bhaarath meanwhile asked Amirkhan to reign in the Bakis or it would be a full-blown war. Amirkhan promised to do it provided Bhaarath does not occupy any additional land.

After Kargil, Bhaarath realized that Bakis will continue to raise the MAD scenario. So, Bhaarath started development on missile defence program. I think this time, the new-clear wailing is not being raised because Bhaarath has missile defence program that is effective against Baki missiles. Baki missile defence program is Afghanisthan i.e. strategic depth.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Peregrine » 21 Oct 2014 02:35

Gunmen slay eight Punjabi labourers in Hub
HUB - Gunmen in Balochistan killed eight Punjabi labourers Sunday in what appeared to be an ethnically motivated attack, officials said.

Cheers Image

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Gagan » 21 Oct 2014 03:28

So their need for strategic depth is even more now!

India has better Army, Navy and Airforce.
India has a much bigger and a far more advanced missile arsenal.
Further terrorism is suddenly not an option that they can carry out unfettered.

Given the three above, they are going to go into a state of depression and
1. Enhance terrorism in Afghanistan
2. Give impetus to SIMI like movements within India, Maoists, NE, Punjab etc.

The reason, why there is IMMENSE khujli amongst everyone is because they know that their status quo with India, where the Pak Army could show bravardo within pakistan, is under peril.
The army is scared that this has the makings of the endgame for their hold on Pakistan, that Pakistan khatre mein, there by Islam khatre mein

Their reaction is predictably going to be along these lines

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Prem » 21 Oct 2014 04:19

The flare up at Pakistan's other border
Iran not comfortable with development of Gwadar Port
A senior official of the Home Department of Balochistan, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, says that Iran supports Baloch separatists fighting against Pakistan.He suggested that this was related to Iranian misgivings about the development of the Gwadar Deep Sea Port. Gwadar, which is around 75 kilometers east of the Iranian border, will compete with the India-backed Iranian port at Chabahar by providing trade access to land-locked Afghanistan and Central Asian States through Pakistan.“We are not safe even here. The Iranian spy service is behind the murder of my young colleague,” Raheemi says. The exiled ethnic Baloch Iranians seek support from the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees to get political asylum. “We are fighting for Baloch rights inside Iran,” he says.Those living in Pakistan’s border districts are completely dependent on Iran in commodities and jobs. [/b]Riaz Baloch, a resident of Pakistani Balochistan, says that people from the region must now go through strict security checks to enter Iran. Baloch says members of his family live in Iranian Sistan-Balochistan, but deteriorating relations between the two countries mean they cannot see one other.The two countries must take practical and effective steps to remove the trust deficit. Iran must stop cross border attacks on Pakistani soil, and Pakistan has to address the grievances of Iran. Both countries must make joint efforts to curb the menace of terrorism and extremism. The two neighboring countries cannot afford tension at the 900km porous border since both are faced with common threats of terrorism and extremism. :lol:

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Gagan » 21 Oct 2014 04:39

Poor Pakistan is faced with Cross border terrorism from all sides

The Hindus and Modi on the east
The shias on the south-west.
The Gora angrejs on the west and north-west
Polk eating, godless, tallel than mountain fiend on the nolth

:((

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Prem » 21 Oct 2014 05:07

Gagan wrote:Poor Pakistan is faced with Cross border terrorism from all sidesThe Hindus and Modi on the eastThe shias on the south-west.The Gora angrejs on the west and north-west
Polk eating, godless, tallel than mountain fiend on the nolth:((


This is how it was Zia's time till Soviets invaded Afghanistan. A Pakjabi poet described it
Pakistan diya Mauja hi Mauja
Charre Passe Fauja hi Fauja.
Zia threw him in jail as he thought it was taunt to him.


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