Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct 2014

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby shiv » 21 Oct 2014 05:38

Gagan wrote:Poor Pakistan is faced with Cross border terrorism from all sides

The Hindus and Modi on the east
The shias on the south-west.
The Gora angrejs on the west and north-west
Polk eating, godless, tallel than mountain fiend on the nolth

:((


Everyone is against Pakistan because they are an Islamic nation. Pakistan is weak because they are not good Muslims. Better and purer Islam in Pakistan, led by true momeen heroes like Hafeez Saeed, one-eyed wotzis name and Ilyas Kashmiri will bring victory to Pakistan

Cosmo_R
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3407
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 01:24

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Cosmo_R » 21 Oct 2014 05:58

Anujan wrote:
One thing that amazes me about Pakistan is that the Army GUBOs some people, but those people turn around and become staunch army supporters.


I'm amazed that you're amazed. There is not an iota of difference between these 'Army supporters' and the 'Army'.

Sherry baby (cue the music), Najam Sethi, Asma Jehangir et al. all have the same hope: Mughalistan under a new benevolent 'Akbar'.

I kid you not. Privately (in person) , there is no daylight between them and Imran Khan and the guy with the red beret who wants to hoist the Paki flag over the Red Fort.

These guys all have ebola of the green variety.

Each age has its evil that we must fight against.

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6948
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Anujan » 21 Oct 2014 05:59

Iranians are crazy and view themselves as uber-TFTAs. If you think Pakis have a TFTA syndrome, you havent spoken to a true Iranian TFTA (in fact many argue that the split into Shias and Sunnis are because the Persians viewed themselves as more TFTA of the Persian empire/civilization than the SDRE nomad camel loving Arabs, but that is a long digression).

They try to punch above their weight and never fail to get even. They canceled ONGC contract at Pars because India voted against them at the UN vis-a-vis Nukes. India is among the very few countries doing barter trade with them, and those mofos had the gall to send in terrorists to bomb an Israeli diplomat's car in India (which was then settled "quietly" by GoI. I would have liked more musharraf kicking to show them their place, the tiny bankrupt b4stards.).

Iranian Takleef with Pakistan could be two fold. Pakis are sending in terrorists (as usual). Pakis are also sending in yahoos to fight against Iran propped regime in Syria, and Paki "retired" TFTAs are the ones who went on a murderous rampage against protesting Shias in Bahrain. On top of that Pakis have canceled the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline. Which the Pakis used to approve and inaugurate every week to put "pressure" on IMF and the US. Till they realized neither IMF nor US budged and on top of that they dont have the money to finance the pipeline.

So now Iran has nothing to lose by killing a few Pakis and thats exactly what they are doing.

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6948
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Anujan » 21 Oct 2014 06:04

Cosmo_R wrote:Sherry baby (cue the music), Najam Sethi, Asma Jehangir et al. all have the same hope: Mughalistan under a new benevolent 'Akbar'.



As an aside did anyone point out that Akbar wasnt a muslim, but followed a religion he made up called Din-e-illahi and would have probably been beheaded as an apostate if he were alive today?

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23779
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby SSridhar » 21 Oct 2014 06:08

Cosmo_R wrote:These guys all have ebola of the green variety.

:D wonderful.

Cosmo_R
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3407
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 01:24

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Cosmo_R » 21 Oct 2014 06:13

@Anujan^^^

Iranians, they are worse than the Pakis but thankfully they are not direct neighbors. They remind me of Argentines. Th joke among Latin Americans is that the way to get rich is to buy an Argentine for what he is worth and to sell him for what he thinks he's worth. Obviously a huge bid/offer differential.

Long time ago, a CEO of a major US bank (that I worked for) opined to me: " The Iranians make the Germans look like Italians."

"Oozing charm from every pore, they oiled their way across the floor".

Toxic peoples, bereft of the charm and allure we associate with pakis. :)

Cosmo_R
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3407
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 01:24

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Cosmo_R » 21 Oct 2014 06:28

Anujan wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote:Sherry baby (cue the music), Najam Sethi, Asma Jehangir et al. all have the same hope: Mughalistan under a new benevolent 'Akbar'.


As an aside did anyone point out that Akbar wasnt a muslim, but followed a religion he made up called Din-e-illahi and would have probably been beheaded as an apostate if he were alive today?


You mean the whole Mughal-e-Azam thingie was made up? I will die crushed, the small change of my illusions come to naught.

Next, you'll tell me that Shah Jehan of Guerlain (Shalimar) perfume fame didn't actually hack off the hands of some thousands of stone workers as the ultimate NDA.

I'm opening my Blue Label.

Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Agnimitra » 21 Oct 2014 06:44

Anujan and Cosmo_R ji,

I have said before - Paki RAPE's TFTA mentality is only an attempted imitation of the Irani TFTA mentality. And the Irani TFTA mentality has a similar relation with the Turkish TFTA mentality. Most of the zealous TFTA's in Iran today are Turko-Iranians.

The Iranis also have a fascination and respect for India as the origin of "erfaan" (mysticism) in their culture. That is a cause for both respect and envy. With an appropriate cultural program, and with continuing economic development, we can 'work' the Iranians. We can perhaps even pull them out of the Abrahamic orbit and shuttle them back into our civilizational orbit. That would be a quantum leap in our power projection into Eurasia.

Iran can be 'worked' because of its degree of 'separation' from India, and a modicum of dignity and self-respect. Pak is a gone case because they don't even have any shame or self-respect.

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6948
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Anujan » 21 Oct 2014 07:01

A few Paki-related roundup.

First is that they have increased electricity tariff by 43 PakPaisa. Which they did without announcing and added it as some random surcharge. This is to mollify IMF which has refused to give $1.1 billion by december unless they increased the charge. Pakis are denying that they have increased charges at all, and the truth will only be known when people get the next month's electricity bill 8) (they are trying to make sure Immy doesnt get political mileage from it). Immy has promised to protest this. Paki supreme court has also given the go-ahead for privatizing OGDCL, which was another condition for IMF loans. All in all, Pakis seem to be set for the 1.1 Billion $ baksheesh and yet another round of protests by Immy.

Sartaj Aziz has gone to Afghanistan, and has made some progress in trying to patch up the relationship. Ashraf Ghani is new and probably will take a few months to realize that Pakis are well, Pakis
http://tribune.com.pk/story/778139/ties ... -pm-nawaz/

Motely group of Pakis including an ex-IB chief are arranging a "Million Man March" in Londonistan to protest "Hyooman rights violation in Cashmere" and to offer "Moral, Political and Diplomatic" support. Unresolved Cashmere issue is radicalizing Pakistani youth in UK and causing them to bomb public transportation there it seems.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1139207/kashmi ... ter-sultan

High time India organized a Balochistan freedom march.

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6640
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby CRamS » 21 Oct 2014 07:09

Cosmo_RJi,

I have had quite a few Iranian colleagues/friends over the years. Their sense of superiority over Arabs is palpable. The more "moderate", whisky and women chasing ones that is, also think they are more TFTA than Richard Gere. They share a lot of traits with TSP TFTA.

Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Shreeman » 21 Oct 2014 07:12

Agnimitra wrote:Anujan and Cosmo_R ji,

I have said before - Paki RAPE's TFTA mentality is only an attempted imitation of the Irani TFTA mentality. And the Irani TFTA mentality has a similar relation with the Turkish TFTA mentality. Most of the zealous TFTA's in Iran today are Turko-Iranians.

The Iranis also have a fascination and respect for India as the origin of "erfaan" (mysticism) in their culture. That is a cause for both respect and envy. With an appropriate cultural program, and with continuing economic development, we can 'work' the Iranians. We can perhaps even pull them out of the Abrahamic orbit and shuttle them back into our civilizational orbit. That would be a quantum leap in our power projection into Eurasia.

Iran can be 'worked' because of its degree of 'separation' from India, and a modicum of dignity and self-respect. Pak is a gone case because they don't even have any shame or self-respect.


Orthogonally, Eyeranians also come in two forms: those who want to get out, and those who want to stay in. You know, like RNI (as RIs call them, guilty as charged, no point in defending!) and the better kind who want to stay in and aim for the girth so far only achieved by Hassan Firuzabadi (a Chief of Staff of eyeranian armed forces).

The first type are in your "Abrahamic" orbit. I say this after some anaalysiis. They have their reasons and wont be pulled out. The second type is internally fractured, is in no one's orbit and a minority might be poroductive and useful.

The question is -- if you cant work with taiwan, japan, korea, or vietnam on a scale that would tilt any balances, then quid Eeyeran?

2c forfeited.

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6640
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby CRamS » 21 Oct 2014 07:21

DoCJi/A_GuptaJi, kindly give me your opinion on this. Has US ever applied the kind of crippling sanctions on TSP that it has on say Iran, NK etc? And if not, why not? Is it because US is unwilling to apply those kind of sanctions, or is it because US is incapable of applying those kinds of sanctions?

When you pose this question to the Uneven types, they will spin with a straight face and say that sanctions have been tried, they will cite Pressler, and then say see, sanctions had no effect, so US has a better chance of influencing TSP behavior by staying "engaged" (meaning F-soals and the like to TSPA). As far as I can tell, US has at best imposed some wishy washy sanctions on TSP, but never crippling ones. Why? And sometimes when sanctions were imposed, they were done in an equal equal fashion like after Pokran-II and TSP's Chinese fireworks display.

member_28397
BRFite
Posts: 234
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby member_28397 » 21 Oct 2014 09:15

CRamS wrote:Cosmo_RJi,

I have had quite a few Iranian colleagues/friends over the years. Their sense of superiority over Arabs is palpable. The more "moderate", whisky and women chasing ones that is, also think they are more TFTA than Richard Gere. They share a lot of traits with TSP TFTA.


:lol: not only superiority over Arabs but porkies and SDRE yindoos(X100) also, they are almost on same level of jihadi bullshit and when it comes to TFTA effect, porkies are just at their pre school levels. Thank God we don't have eyeranians as neighbors otherwise we would have seen both sunni and shia terrorists blowing shit out of SDRE yindoos.
endnote Porkies == Eyeranians.
Last edited by member_28397 on 21 Oct 2014 09:26, edited 1 time in total.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby shiv » 21 Oct 2014 09:20

CRamS wrote:DoCJi/A_GuptaJi, kindly give me your opinion on this. Has US ever applied the kind of crippling sanctions on TSP that it has on say Iran, NK etc? And if not, why not? Is it because US is unwilling to apply those kind of sanctions, or is it because US is incapable of applying those kinds of sanctions?

When you pose this question to the Uneven types, they will spin with a straight face and say that sanctions have been tried, they will cite Pressler, and then say see, sanctions had no effect, so US has a better chance of influencing TSP behavior by staying "engaged" (meaning F-soals and the like to TSPA). As far as I can tell, US has at best imposed some wishy washy sanctions on TSP, but never crippling ones. Why? And sometimes when sanctions were imposed, they were done in an equal equal fashion like after Pokran-II and TSP's Chinese fireworks display.

Too many Americans have an inflated sense of what "sanctions" do to others. That probably includes you.

Why do you believe that Iran is "crippled" in any way? The US has lost every confrontation it has had with Iran and with NoKo and still people come and throw around this bullshit that US sanctions are "crippling" those states.

Let me tell you that a lot of Americans are brainwashed to believe that if they live life like life is lived in America - it is nirvana. And any nation where that American life is not visible is bad, and gets crippled by lack of US influence. This is simply a delusion that you have carried with you longer than most other BRFites. American sanctions do not work on most nations. American generosity on the other hand works like bribery with the corrupt. The worst specimens of humanity respond to American generosity the way a corrupt individual would respond to a bribe.

America has done as much as it can by bribing Pakistan and is now left high and dry. Bribes won't do any more and sanctions will not work.

Vikas
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6696
Joined: 03 Dec 2005 02:40
Location: Where DST doesn't bother me
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Vikas » 21 Oct 2014 10:10

^To turn the argument on heads, it seems like Amreekha is scared of applying pressure on Pakistan lest one more ISIS is formed assuming Amreekhi pressure had any value.
I think if Mushy was not such a chicken (Well whole of Pak Fauji officer corp is), There wasn't sh!t that Amreekha could have done. Even in Afghan, if there was no Northern Alliance, I doubt if Mullah Omar would have been forced to move to defense colony, Isloo.
Lastly if India should be scared of Paki nukes as every Amreekhi tom,dick and harry loves to tell us, Don't you think that deep down inside, they are foisting there own fears on Bharath.

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5671
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby vishvak » 21 Oct 2014 10:51

Amrikas were silent when pakis were running black market of nukes and then imported NoKo missiles too. Now Americans are selling fears of nukes.

We got to ask why we can't send drones and missiles to target jihadi mob bosses in army uniform. We never asked such questions during nuke smuggling or genocide of Bangla Hindus or ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits or during wars like Kargil war.

During bangla war, IAF jets bombed the place where jihadi bosses were meeting but never killed them off.

Can we do such bombings with amriki jets the way amrika is bombing ISIL with amriki jets?
Last edited by vishvak on 21 Oct 2014 11:03, edited 1 time in total.

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby arun » 21 Oct 2014 10:54

Retired Uniformed Jihadi of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan Brigadier Shaukat Qadir spins grand conspiracy story behind India’s robust reaction to Pakistani provocations while claiming he does not believe in conspiracy theories. Qadir spins a conspiracy story that India is supposed to be in cahoots with Imran Khan and Tahir ul Qadri to stop P.R.Chinese investments and economic recovery in the Islamic Republic while going on to claim he does believe in conspiracy theories despite spinning one. :-? :lol: :

While I am not a conspiracy-theorist, I am also not a believer in coincidences. Certainly not in too many of them. It is too much to believe that all this came together by coincidence.

Just as Pakistan is gaining ground in its largest military operation against the Taliban and seems to be ready to begin a slight economic recovery and receive investments from China, Imran Khan and Tahir Ul Qadri arrived in Islamabad to create a distraction and ensure that the economic recovery stalled.

India also cancelled the secretary-level talks that it had sought. Then it followed that development with unnecessarily aggressive statements and, finally, it has been heating up the LOC.

There has to be method in this apparent madness. But is there a hidden hand behind the scene that is coordinating these coincidences? I don’t know, but I am beginning to believe that there might be.


The National:

Kashmir: Any ‘distraction’ could be catastrophic for Pakistan

A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11637
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby A_Gupta » 21 Oct 2014 10:57

Unless there is a generational change/disruption in the American political/leadership class, they can no more impose "crippling" sanctions on TSP than the Chinese can give up speaking Mandarin. What is the point of asking why? It is simply not part of their worldview. Pakistan has colluded with the killing of American service people in Afghanistan, about as close an act of war without actually going to war as is possible, put aside sheltering OBL, prime author of 9/11. So what circumstances might impel the US to act? Circumstances similar to what might make the Chinese ban Mandarin, i.e., nothing in the real world.

If you stop banging your head against the wall, it might stop hurting, you know.

raja_m
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 20
Joined: 22 Apr 2008 09:33
Location: Bhulok

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby raja_m » 21 Oct 2014 11:15

World’s worst airport 2014: Islamabad, Pakistan

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/worlds-worst-airport-2014-islamabad-pakistan/story-e6frfq80-1227097049646

Is Islamabad's Benazir Bhutto International really so bad?
Airport officials didn't reply to CNN's requests for a comment, but survey respondents were less than complimentary.
"This airport is [like] a central prison," said one who complained of touts and aggressive taxi drivers.


Prison for all the people who want vijja to Canada :rotfl:

The full list:

Worst Airports of 2014
1. Benazir Bhutto International Airport, Islamabad, Pakistan

2. King Abdulaziz International Airport, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

3. Tribhuvan International Airport, Kathmandu, Nepal

4. Manila Ninoy Aquino International Airport, Philippines

5. Tashkent International Airport, Uzbekistan

6. Paris Beauvais-Tille Airport, France

7. Frankfurt Hahn Airport, Germany

8. Bergamo Orio al Serio Airport, Italy

9. Tegel Airport, Berlin, Germany

10. LaGuardia Airport, New York City

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1447
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby schinnas » 21 Oct 2014 11:21

shiv wrote:Too many Americans have an inflated sense of what "sanctions" do to others....

Why do you believe that Iran is "crippled" in any way? The US has lost every confrontation it has had with Iran and with NoKo and still people come and throw around this bullshit that US sanctions are "crippling" those states.

Let me tell you that a lot of Americans are brainwashed to believe that if they live life like life is lived in America - it is nirvana. And any nation where that American life is not visible is bad, and gets crippled by lack of US influence. This is simply a delusion that you have carried with you longer than most other BRFites. American sanctions do not work on most nations. American generosity on the other hand works like bribery with the corrupt. The worst specimens of humanity respond to American generosity the way a corrupt individual would respond to a bribe.

America has done as much as it can by bribing Pakistan and is now left high and dry. Bribes won't do any more and sanctions will not work.


Well said, Doc-ji. I felt the same but couldn't express it as clearly as you did. US suffers from an intellectual disease whereby it believes that its worldview - which is pursuit of happiness and exploitation of resources and unbridled capitalism are the best what humanity can aspire for. They have even moved away from what their founding fathers envisioned. Now, for Americans, the dream is to have a own house, a car, a job and a family with kids! Is this any sign of a mature civilization. So based on their uninspiring wordview they wrongly imagine that if they can in some way hurt the ability of other nations to have a better house or better car or a better job (all related to monetary criteria) they are hurting that nation and that gives rise to their inflated opinion of what sanctions can do.

On the other hand say for India (atleast those viewing life in Dharmic way) beyond very basic needs of food, shelter and clothing what is more important and valued is how one has lived their life - the net Karma one accumulates or dissolves on their way to reaching Nirvana. In this worldview, the external situations matter very little. Except for Macaulite Indians others wouldnt give two hoots about any sanctions.

With middle east it might be similar but their world view is based on Allah instead of Nirvana. Thats the difference. What can sanctions do to Allah - Pakis would ask!

Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Agnimitra » 21 Oct 2014 11:29

Below is an excerpt from the writings of Sheikh Ahmad Sirhindi, known famously as Imam Rabbani. This should properly dispel any ignorance or denial of discrimination and the prevalence of untouchability in Islamic societies for centuries. Please note - across the Sunni world, Imam Rabbani is considered "mujaddid alf e thaani" in Islam - the second greatest expositor of Islam after Imam Ghazali. Rabbani was born and died in medieval India. Today, from the Gulenist Turks to all of Pakistan, they consider themselves disciples of Rabbani. The grandfather of modern Turkish Islamism, Said Nursi, said he had a vision of Rabbani who gave him gyaan.

Image

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5671
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby vishvak » 21 Oct 2014 11:35

Wow, dhanyawaad Agnimitra ji. Good to see a clear cut explanation of barbarism under religious disguise.

Vikas
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6696
Joined: 03 Dec 2005 02:40
Location: Where DST doesn't bother me
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Vikas » 21 Oct 2014 13:40

Shukriya Agnimitra ji.
We know where do Pakis find their source of Inspiration.

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6823
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby habal » 21 Oct 2014 14:21

Chenab Rangers 'sector commander' Brig Wasim briefing on damages by Yeevil Yindoos during ceasefire violation.

33,000 rounds of mortar fired by bsf/IA in 2014
300,000+ rounds of small arms fire in 2014

photos of destroyed/damaged structures, soldiers who embraced 'shahadat' etc in briefing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nATjuQiY6NA

Ispecial rhona-dhona on shelling done during eid. Oct 6,7,8.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7033
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby JE Menon » 21 Oct 2014 15:07

>>Has US ever applied the kind of crippling sanctions on TSP that it has on say Iran, NK etc? And if not, why not? Is it because US is unwilling to apply those kind of sanctions, or is it because US is incapable of applying those kinds of sanctions?

Others have answered, but I'll point out one factor, and this has been repeated many times on BRF so I'm not sure why this question keeps popping up repeatedly. The answer is this:

The US is capable of applying full-isolation sanctions by itself on Pakistan (i.e. US-Pakistan, not UN route), but it will not do so because it is not in its interest to do so, so long as Pakistan remains even a minimally useful lever against India, Iran and occasionally China, and because Pakistan remains of marginal utility as a rentier state and a deniable source of Islamic terrorist cannon fodder. As such it is in the US interest to keep Pakistan only so strong that it is wobbling along and dependent. But unfortunately, the Pakistan military has aspirations and ambitions of its own. And therein lies the catch.

Raja Ram
BRFite
Posts: 586
Joined: 30 Mar 1999 12:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Raja Ram » 21 Oct 2014 15:48

habal,

Thank you. I had predicted that it was only a matter of time before the shahadat images and destruction images would surface. If the Shahahdat ceremonies mentioned including mid ranking officers of the PA or Rangers, that would be another indicator of the pain inflicted.

The usual victims on the paki side is always the civilians and terrorists. It is never the PA brass. If the brass has been hit and hit hard, then you will see this level of wailing and calling for help and intervention.

It is yet another proof to those who have doubts that things have changed on the ground and the punishment has been severe.

Cosmo_R
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3407
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 01:24

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Cosmo_R » 21 Oct 2014 16:28

JE Menon wrote:>>Has US ever applied the kind of crippling sanctions on TSP that it has on say Iran, NK etc? And if not, why not? Is it because US is unwilling to apply those kind of sanctions, or is it because US is incapable of applying those kinds of sanctions?

Others have answered, but I'll point out one factor, and this has been repeated many times on BRF so I'm not sure why this question keeps popping up repeatedly. The answer is this:

The US is capable of applying full-isolation sanctions by itself on Pakistan (i.e. US-Pakistan, not UN route), but it will not do so because it is not in its interest to do so, so long as Pakistan remains even a minimally useful lever against India, Iran and occasionally China, and because Pakistan remains of marginal utility as a rentier state and a deniable source of Islamic terrorist cannon fodder. As such it is in the US interest to keep Pakistan only so strong that it is wobbling along and dependent. But unfortunately, the Pakistan military has aspirations and ambitions of its own. And therein lies the catch.


Don't forget the KSA/Sunni factor. Support for Pakistan is seen as a way by State Dept idiots to ingratiate themselves with the Sunni middle east and elsewhere.

Cosmo_R
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3407
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 01:24

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Cosmo_R » 21 Oct 2014 16:34

I had not realized how much of a termite this Praveen Swami character is:

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinio ... -the-foot/

"Experience and government statistics show that machismo has never worked as a plan against Pakistan."

When the costs of escalation reach Klifton Kolony and Defence Kolony, the epiphany that accompanies an existential event, will occur.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13774
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Oct 2014 16:54

I am SHOCKED :eek: :shock: SHOCKED! So many shells and bullets fired, and that too during holiest of holy dins when the Faithfool were concentrated in predictable locations and Guantanamo-ready postures. What's wrong with these yindoos? Those shells seem to have 4 fins on them, indicating guided/guidable projectiles. 300,000 bullets, 303310.537 shells, and only 20 pest-e-sha'eed? I hope these were cheap left-overs captured from PA in 1971, not modern guided armaments developed by DRDO's 100%-indi-genius design with only 97% phoren collaborashun.

Clearly the yindoos are following evil Pee-Aref guidance from 1999-2000: be gentle and respectful of lives, but smash the pakistan out of the infrastructure. DEEP inside Pakistan.

member_22872
BRFite
Posts: 1873
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby member_22872 » 21 Oct 2014 17:44

Shahid? May be not: The beggar nation unable to decide:
@omar_quraishi: Soldier Ashok Kumar gave up his life fighting terrorists & we are debating whether to call him a shaheed http://t.co/d9SlDLk5L8

kancha
BRFite
Posts: 908
Joined: 20 Apr 2005 19:13

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby kancha » 21 Oct 2014 17:49

^^ Ah, you beat me to it!
The replies are classic!

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18863
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Karan M » 21 Oct 2014 18:00

Cosmo sir, Pravin Swami is a grade A termite who cooks up stuff day in and night out. All that MMS stuff is to rehab his image at the cost of the services and equally pernicious as his "grandmother straying across the border" cooked up IndoPak tensions and beheadings etc. He is a slimeball.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23779
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby SSridhar » 21 Oct 2014 18:20

Pakistan court admits petition seeking Nawaz Sharif's disqualification on money laundering charges
A petition seeking disqualification of Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on money laundering charges has been admitted by a court here [Lahore] for hearing, 23 years after it was filed.

A Lahore High Court comprising Justice Syed Mansoor Ali Shah and Justice Abid Aziz Sheikh yesterday admitted the petition after listening the arguments and requested the chief justice to constitute a five-member larger bench to hear it. The bench was hearing an application to fix hearing for the main petition pending since 1991.

Petitioner Barrister Javed Iqbal Jafree told the court that four years had passed since last hearing on his petition by a five-judge bench was held.

The bench was later dissolved after one of its members refused to hear the case due to personal reasons, he said.

Jafree pleaded that Nawaz Sharif caused a huge loss to the national exchequer by sending money abroad through illegal means and the anti-corruption agencies had turned a blind eye to the complaints in this regard.

"PM Sharif does not meet the criteria for being a member of the parliament as prescribed in Articles 62 & 63 of the Constitution, therefore he should be declared disqualified," he pleaded.

The division bench admitted the plea and referred the case to chief justice with a request to form a five-judge bench.

Finance Minister Ishaq Dar whose son is married to Nawaz Sharif's daughter had submitted an affidavit in the court declaring that he laundered Nawaz Sharif's huge money to Dubai and London through illegal means. He confessed to his crime after the Nawaz Sharif government was overthrown by General Pervez Musharraf in 1999.

Pakistan Tahreek-i-Insaf chairman Imran Khan has also demanded investigation into money laundering charges against Sharif and his alleged involvement in receiving money from the ISI to form a grand political alliance against Benazir Bhutto's PPP in 1990.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23779
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby SSridhar » 21 Oct 2014 18:24

India wants to resolve all issues with Pakistan through talks: NSA Ajit Doval - PTI
Asserting that there are no problems which cannot be resolved, India today said it would like to address all its issues with Pakistan through talks while having an "effective deterrence" to deal with terrorism emanating from there.

"We would like to resolve our problems through negotiations, through talks. I don't think of any problem that cannot be resolved through negotiations," he said, against the backdrop of recent escalation in ceasefire violation by Pakistan.

"But on the other hand, India would like to have an effective deterrence to deal with terrorism," Doval said.

Delivering an address on "The Munich Security Conference" (MSC) here, he emphasised the policy of having friendly relations with all neighbours and said India's economic progress could bring the regional countries together.

"I think developing better relations with neighbourhood is important. India's economic development could bind together the region which could see a vested interest that India's growth will bring more opportunities and they should not feel undermined," he said.


UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13774
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Oct 2014 18:41

they should not feel undermined," he said.

An admirable sentiment: explains why the mines are being delivered by air. 8)

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6640
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby CRamS » 21 Oct 2014 18:59

A_GuptaJi/DoCJi, I see what you erudite gents are saying. While I agree that the crippling sanctions have not quite brought Iran to its knees (one needs to define what that means), but surely you would agree that the massive pressure on Iran has to a large extent moderated its behavior. Of course, whether its only due to sanctions is debatable. US has stepped up its covert/overt military pressure on Iran, for e.g., stuxnet worm that took out Iranian nuclear reactors.

Likewise, elementary TSP 101 tells you that TSP RAPE (including generals of TSPA and ISI) relish their whisky, women, and other goodies. Furthermore, elementary TSP 101 also tells you that it is TSP RAPE, not the bearded mullahs and abduls who are sacrificial lambs at the mere promise of 72, that are the real villains. Thus, a strategy that would apply pressure on TSP RAPE will go a long way to, if not bring TSP to its knees, at least moderate its behavior (Perhaps US will argue that its "pressure" is why we are seeing why TSP is not behaving any worse).

Raja Ram
BRFite
Posts: 586
Joined: 30 Mar 1999 12:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Raja Ram » 21 Oct 2014 19:00

It is apparent that Pakistani desperation in getting attention to the punishment and seeking intervention of its maai baaps is rising by the day. The UK is apparently doing nothing to discourage the Pakis there to do a Million Man March for Kashmir in London while letting India know that it will not get involved despite Paki wailings. The US is preparing to fund the Dam in POK for the Pakis.

It will be interesting to watch to how much these benefactors of Pakistan go in trying to prop up this artificial entity. As usual, the Pakis have not only gone crying to them about the punishment, but true to form, they are using this as another excuse to do what they do always. They are begging for money as well as arms to help them survive.

The GOI will be watching and assessing both Pakistan as well as its benefactors for sure.

Meanwhile in the style of Thalaivar Rajini in Robot, "Happy Diwali Folks!" :twisted:

A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11637
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby A_Gupta » 21 Oct 2014 19:06

Agnimitra wrote:Below is an excerpt from the writings of Sheikh Ahmad Sirhindi, known famously as Imam Rabbani. This should properly dispel any ignorance or denial of discrimination and the prevalence of untouchability in Islamic societies for centuries. Please note - across the Sunni world, Imam Rabbani is considered "mujaddid alf e thaani" in Islam - the second greatest expositor of Islam after Imam Ghazali. Rabbani was born and died in medieval India. Today, from the Gulenist Turks to all of Pakistan, they consider themselves disciples of Rabbani. The grandfather of modern Turkish Islamism, Said Nursi, said he had a vision of Rabbani who gave him gyaan.

Image


How Sirhindi jumps from Hindus to Jews (or how the translator/exceptor jumps across from Hindus to Jews) is interesting.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23779
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby SSridhar » 21 Oct 2014 19:27

US fund flow into Pakistan-occupied Kashmir dam floods Delhi with concern - Dipanjan Roy Chaudhry, ToI
India, upset with a recent US move to mobilize funds for a hydel-power project in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK), will lodge a protest with the Obama administration for supporting a venture in a territory which it considers to be illegally occupied by Islamabad.

Delhi, that has long protested moves by outsiders including China to support Diamer-Bhasha dam hydel-power and irrigation project and other infrastructure ventures in PoK, is particularly peeved as the US is acting decision comes at a time when Pakistan has upped the ante on Jammu & Kashmir through repeated ceasefire violations and subsequent efforts to internationalise the issue.

The Modi government is expected to use diplomatic channels to lodge a protest with the US, official sources said, adding that PoK was under illegal occupation of Pakistan and any infrastructure project in that area is illegal. Delhi maintains that the entire state of Jammu & Kashmir, including the PoK, is an integral part of India. Delhi had always protested against the construction of Diamer-Bhasa project located in Gilgit-Baltistan area of PoK. The issue has been repeatedly raised with both China and Pakistan in the past, sources recalled.

Beijing's total support to Pakistan's projects in PoK is to the tune of $12-15 billion. The dam site was an integral part of India by virtue of Jammu & Kashmir's accession to the country in 1947, sources stressed. There are also fears that the reservoir of this dam would inundate large parts of land in northern part of Jammu and Kashmir adjoining PoK. The project site is 165 km downstream of Gilgit, capital of northern areas of PoK.

Last week, the Obama administration had organized a fund-raising event in Washington to seek support for the 4,500 MW Diamer-Bhasha project. USAID chief Rajiv Shah, who was once in the race to become envoy to India, and Dan Feldman, US special representative for Afghanistan-Pakistan, attended the event.

"Investment in the Diamer Bhasha dam is the smartest choice for Pakistan," Feldman was quoted in a Pakistani media report days after the event. Expressing similar sentiment, US ambassador to Pakistan Richard Olson said in Lahore recently: "This project presents exciting opportunities for foreign and local investors to profit, while bringing critically needed energy, water, and foreign investment to Pakistan."

Pakistan's finance minister Ishaq Dar and water, power and defence minister Khawaja Muhammad Asif were present at the Washington event to attract US and international investors for the project, sources informed. Incidentally the fund-raising event was organized less than ten days after Obama met Prime Minister Narendra Modi in the US capital. The World Bank had earlier rejected Pakistani government's proposal for financing the project following India's reservations against it.

A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11637
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby A_Gupta » 21 Oct 2014 19:31

Agnimitra wrote:Below is an excerpt from the writings of Sheikh Ahmad Sirhindi, known famously as Imam Rabbani. This should properly dispel any ignorance or denial of discrimination and the prevalence of untouchability in Islamic societies for centuries. Please note - across the Sunni world, Imam Rabbani is considered "mujaddid alf e thaani" in Islam - the second greatest expositor of Islam after Imam Ghazali. Rabbani was born and died in medieval India. Today, from the Gulenist Turks to all of Pakistan, they consider themselves disciples of Rabbani. The grandfather of modern Turkish Islamism, Said Nursi, said he had a vision of Rabbani who gave him gyaan.


One of the citations given is:
Muslim Revivalist Movements In Northern India.
Rizvi,Saiyid Athar Abbas. 1965.

This is Rizvi's Ph.D thesis from Agra University. There is a foreword by Emeritus Prof. Mohammad Habib, Aligarh Muslim University, which I quote here to highlight one specific point.

It is difficult for me to find words to express my appreciation for this extraordinary work. It is an unrivalled study of Indo-Muslim ideology for the two centuries it covers. No medieval or modern work comes to this standard. As compared to our great medieval writers, even Maulana Abdul Haq Muhaddis, Dr. Rizvi has more basic material (printed as well as manuscript, but mostly manuscript) within his reach due to his prolonged labour in its collection and the facilities of the modern age. Also, unlike them, he has freedom from bias and sectarianism, the fear of the Muslim popular opinion; fanaticism of the millat (Muslim Community) does not sit as a nightmare on Dr. Rizvi's mind. His study of the unpublished authorities has been very sound; his attitude is tolerant but critical; and a very complete and (in my humble opinion) correct picture of the religious and mystic movements of the period emerges from the book.

A word of explanation is necessary before I proceed further. Muslim writers and thinkers (both mystics and Mullas) may be divided into two groups. There has been a lower layer that sought a livelihood by serving the government of the day or by pandering to the fanaticism of the multitude. But there has also been a top-layer of persons with broad humanity and freedom from religious fanaticism - Alberuni, Avicenna, Averroes, Ibn Arabi, Shaikh Nizam ud-Din Auliya , Dara Shukoh, etc., about whom Dr. A.A. Rizvi correctly says: "To draw a distinction between believers and kafirs, heaven and hell, reward and punishment was frivolous in their eyes." Dr. A. A. Rizvi promises to be the greatest of this group in our generation.


Notice - unlike the Pakistani and Western liberal "majority are moderate onlee, and the fanatics are just a few percent", Prof. Habib labels the Millat, the multitude as fanatical; and only a small group rise above that to broad humanism and lack of fear of Muslim popular opinion. IMO, this is very important - but it just may be me.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 54 guests