Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct 2014

ArunK · Post by **ArunK** » 26 Oct 2014 18:24

kancha wrote:@CestMoiz · 8m 8 minutes ago
Lo and Behold - Paki Flags too!
Now who could've thunk!

The Paki flag is ulta

ArunK · Post by **ArunK** » 26 Oct 2014 18:51

Could one of the admins please save these links to the first post

------------------------------------
Link to UN security council resolution #47 --> Kashmir Plebecite

http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/missi ... ents.shtml

It has other resolutions passed for the 48,65 & 71 wars
------------------------------------

Dated link from 2009. I think we need to keep this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 11060.html

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Oct 2014 19:13

SSji

I am also wondering the same. My feeling is that something in the status quo has changed which TSP is unhappy about and hence all this circus. What could that be? The heavy return of fire by Indian forces along LoC/IB? I am not convinced that it is so much of a change in status quo. Was there any understanding between ModiJi & US during his visit that rattled TSP? I doubt US would have changed the status quo so much in favor of India. Also, not sure if it is the tamasha that was expected as US cuts and runs from AfPak. I am mystified too.

My best guess is that TSP does see a sea change in the state of affairs in India, and under ModiJi, India is attempting to break away from the "South Asia" box, and TSP is desperate to bring it back to status quo. Not very convincing even to me, but thats my best guess.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 26 Oct 2014 19:26

less towels to throw
Cotton yarn, cotton cloth export declines by 22%, 14% in Sept 2014’

The export of cotton yarn and cotton cloth has declined by around 22 percent and 14 percent respectively in September 2014 against the corresponding period of last year.
The ongoing energy crisis remained a major factor behind this and All Pakistan Textile Mills Association (APTMA) expressed concern over continuous decline over the last six months and apprehended further loss in case the energy crisis persisted, particularly in upcoming winter.

Textile exports are already down by $1 billion during April to August 2014 and September data was showing there was another $200 million decline in exports.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 26 Oct 2014 19:32

CRamS wrote:SSji

I am also wondering the same. My feeling is that something in the status quo has changed which TSP is unhappy about and hence all this circus. What could that be? .....

SSji pointed it out already - namely, current situation is like 1989 ("....point to a deja vu of 1989"), which is when the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan. This time, it is the US disengaging from Afghanistan. Pakistan hopes to repeat the post-1989 playbook, with Pakistan-controlled jihad in Kashmir and Afghanistan. What we are seeing are the preliminary steps.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 26 Oct 2014 19:44

The last of British combat troops left A'stan today.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Oct 2014 19:53

For any event or series of events to get repeated, the initial factors have all got to be exactly the same.

The events of 1989 took place at a time when
1. IPKF was in Sri Lanka
2. The Khalistan movement, supported by Pakistan, Canada and the US was in full swing
3. China had tested a nuclear bomb for Pakistan at Lop Nor - maybe in 1986
4. Pakistan was flush with arms and funds from the war in Afghanistan.
5. The border fence was far from complete

A lot of water has flowed down the Sindhu since then. India has changed - and is more experienced in the ways of the world and less trusting of big powers. The big powers have themselves lost some power or at least the aura of invincibility since then. Indian border controls and intel capability as well as internal security have changed beyond recognition. A lot of communal - Hindu-Mulsim tension that existed in 1989 has bee discussed out in the open by all sides and relations are much more comfortable now

Whatever Pakistan does now can only be a cargo cult parody of 1989.

What we have to be prepared for is not old trick. We are prepared for old tricks. We need to see if they can do anything new and what they might do that we are unprepared for. At this point in time I am unable to think of anything bright or original the Shitlanders can do that we cannot handle. They will have to nuke us.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Oct 2014 19:57

A_GuptaJi, possible. Another factor could be the upcoming elections in J&K. Now, as in the past, massive turnout and successful oucomes have not dampened TSP's desire, but another successful round is something TSP cannot afford. And a BJP win could be fatal to TSP. Even Indian sepoy Noorani traitor urged some action in one of his pukes in a TSP newspaper. So maybe that could be that TSP wants to return J&K to the chaos it was in prior to the relative calm that has prevailed in recent times. They would need massive support on the ground like in 1989. But with the recent floods sapping the energy of the KMs in the valley, wonder how effective this strategy will be.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Oct 2014 19:59

CRamS wrote:A_GuptaJi, possible. Another factor could be the upcoming elections in J&K. Now, as in the past, massive turnout and successful oucomes have not dampened TSP's desire, but another successful round is something TSP cannot afford. And a BJP win could be fatal to TSP. Even Indian sepoy Noorani traitor urged some action in one of his pukes in a TSP newspaper. So maybe that could be that TSP wants to return J&K to the chaos it was in prior to the relative calm that has prevailed in recent times. They would need massive support on the ground like in 1989. But with the recent floods sapping the energy of the KMs in the valley, wonder how effective this strategy will be.

You are a worrier ain't ya? Shitistanis will be able to do bugger all.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 26 Oct 2014 20:11

I think compared to 1989, India's strategic position relative to Pakistan has improved on all dimensions, except for one factor, and that is China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IM ... _(nominal)
India has grown from about 6.something times to about 8 times Pakistan's economy.

PS: might as well add that despite what politicians might say, among aam junta in the European and American spheres, Pakistan is seen as semi-civilized at best. No aam junta there wants to give Islamism any kind of victory.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 26 Oct 2014 20:11

I think all this drama is because their last card i.e the noclear threat does not seem to work with the new government. They are not foolish enough to actually initiate a nuclear war with India.

Deliberate ambiguity on noclear redlines while talking of low threshold had GOI paralyzed to the extent that soldiers were asked to DUCK bullets rather than return fire. That ambiguity about low threshold served them well.

The current GOI going against 'tradition' and 'accepted wisdom' of 'not provoking the porki' by even 'proportionate retaliation' because 'we simply did not know HOW LOW the porki threshold was' has ordered the forces to inflict 'disproportionate and painful retaliation'. That has for all times shattered the noclear umbrella myth.

If the India does not display fear of noclear war the only way to put that fear back is by actually lobing a couple of nukes on India else the deterrence is largely gone. They will not lob nukes for that will finish pak so they go and cry in front of the int. community hoping someone will make India see reason i.e reinforce the noclear flashpoint argument.

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 26 Oct 2014 20:12

@CestMoiz · 17m 17 minutes ago
Crowds are picking up, but at the current pace it might take a few years to build up to a million ppl!

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Oct 2014 20:12

DoCJi, just speculating all the possibilities. TSP is definitely up to something, and it is in response to something that has changed in recent times. Perhaps there is no grand explanation, its the confluence of a number of minutiae (end of AfPak, Modi etc) that in totality seem to have rattled TSP.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 26 Oct 2014 20:19

kancha wrote:@CestMoiz · 17m 17 minutes ago
Crowds are picking up, but at the current pace it might take a few years to build up to a million ppl!

Puzzled. Their facebook page says "12:00 PM", their web-site says "1:00 PM", the time in Londonistan right now is 3:30 PM. I suppose Azadi for Kashmir is indefinitely postponed?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 Oct 2014 20:22

SSridhar wrote:Mani Shankar Aiyar may no longer have interests in India as he is old and his immediate family is settled abroad etc. or he may be representing oil lobby or US interests etc. All that could be true. But he has always been like this. This is not a new phenomenon. In one panel discussion, he clearly said that ever since he could remember he has been at loggerheads with G.Parthasarathy over Pakistan. That should go a long way back then. My suspicion is that like Man Mohan Singh, he has fond memories of Lahore (he grew up there) at an impressionable age and the allure is deeper. It could be as simple as that.

SSridhar, or the ISI has some stuff on him courtesy his stint in TSP and also his supposedly very liberal lifestyle. Nobody normal would behave as this man does, to such an extreme, making himself a mockery, until & unless there was a deeper reason.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 26 Oct 2014 20:22

shiv wrote:Whatever Pakistan does now can only be a cargo cult parody of 1989.

I thought whatever Pakistan does now is a cargo cult parody of circa 700 AD.

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 26 Oct 2014 20:23

shiv wrote:For any event or series of events to get repeated, the initial factors have all got to be exactly the same.

The events of 1989 took place at a time when
1. IPKF was in Sri Lanka
2. The Khalistan movement, supported by Pakistan, Canada and the US was in full swing
3. China had tested a nuclear bomb for Pakistan at Lop Nor - maybe in 1986
4. Pakistan was flush with arms and funds from the war in Afghanistan.
5. The border fence was far from complete

DocJi, that test was in May 1983 with the Pakistan Foreign Minister Yakub Khan in attendance

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Oct 2014 20:25

A_Gupta wrote:
shiv wrote:Whatever Pakistan does now can only be a cargo cult parody of 1989.
I thought whatever Pakistan does now is a cargo cult parody of circa 700 AD.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 26 Oct 2014 20:27

Twitter chatter suggests that there is some confrontation between Blowall and D'mmi supporters. I hope Altaf supporters join them too.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Oct 2014 20:31

CRamS wrote:DoCJi, just speculating all the possibilities. TSP is definitely up to something, and it is in response to something that has changed in recent times. Perhaps there is no grand explanation, its the confluence of a number of minutiae (end of AfPak, Modi etc) that in totality seem to have rattled TSP.

No doubt they are up to something, and until that entity either simply dissolves or magically is at peace with itself, they will always be up to something vis a vis India.

Frankly, I feel that Pakistan's failure against India is being seen as a failure of Islam itself by many in Pakistan and they cannot allow Islam to fail. This opens up the possibility of a nuclear attack on India because India is a hated kafir state. We need to remember that every day that passes without a nuclear attack on India from Pakistan is a small victory for us. Just like every day that passes without India attacking Pakistan is a victory for them.

Pakistani logic can be used both ways - as you can see.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 26 Oct 2014 20:49

Shobha De on a chance meeting with a Army Wife, posted in JandK State.

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... aign=TOIHP

She felt reassured and confident that a zero-tolerance position was being established against those using force against India. And then she told me something pretty chilling. “They were told to DUCK bullets and not fire back! Can you imagine any trained, self-respecting soldier ducking enemy bullets?” she said, her eyes were burning with outrage.

Like in Lucknow, taking a Diwali procession, was a problem once, Pakis are getting used to Indian Soldiers gunning back, rather than, DUCKING, during, St. Antony's time.

sadhana · Post by **sadhana** » 26 Oct 2014 20:55

Anyway here comes the nuke threat from Munir Akram

http://www.dawn.com/news/1140381

During the 2002 general mobilisation by India and Pakistan, the director general of the Pakistan Armed Forces Special Plans Division enunciated its nuclear ‘doctrine’ in a news interview. The ‘doctrine’ envisaged that Pakistan would use nuclear weapons if: it was being militarily overwhelmed; its nuclear or strategic weapons or facilities were attacked; and it was subjected to an enemy blockade.

The projection of this doctrine, including at a UN news conference by this writer in July 2002, sparked a fall in the Indian Stock Exchange, the evacuation of foreign personnel and embassy families from New Delhi and a demarche by Indian business leaders to prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee, and reportedly led to the Indian agreement for a mutual drawback of forces.

The operation of mutual deterrence displayed in 2002, however, is being eroded by several developments.

One, the conventional military balance is becoming progressively unfavourable to Pakistan. India is engaged in a major arms build-up. It is the world’s largest arms importer today. It is deploying advanced and offensive land, air and sea weapons systems. Pakistan’s conventional capabilities may not prove sufficient to deter or halt an Indian attack.

Two, India has adopted the Cold Start doctrine envisaging a rapid strike against Pakistan. This would prevent Pakistan from mobilising its conventional defence and thus lower the threshold at which Pakistan may have to rely on nuclear deterrence.

Three, Pakistan has had to deploy over 150,000 troops on the western border due to its involvement in the cross-border counterterrorism campaign in Afghanistan, reducing its conventional defence capacity against India.

Four, the acquisition of foreign nuclear plants and fuel, made possible by the Indo-US civilian nuclear cooperation agreement, will enable India to enlarge its nuclear weapons stockpile significantly. To maintain nuclear balance, Pakistan has accelerated production of fissile materials. Both nuclear arsenals are now large and growing.

Five, given its growing conventional disadvantage, and India’s pre-emptive war fighting doctrine, Pakistan has been obliged to deploy a larger number of nuclear-capable missiles, including so-called ‘theatre’ or tactical nuclear-capable missiles. The nuclear ‘threshold’ is now much lower.

Six, the Kashmir dispute — once described by former US president Bill Clinton as a nuclear flashpoint — continues to fester. Another insurgency is likely to erupt, certainly if the Bharatiya Janata Party government goes ahead with its platform promise to abrogate Article 370 of the Indian constitution (which accords special status to Jammu & Kashmir). A renewed Kashmiri insurgency will evoke Indian accusations against Pakistan and unleash another Indo-Pakistan crisis.

Seven, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi has obviously decided to adopt an aggressive posture towards Pakistan, no doubt to appeal to his hard-line Hindu constituency. The recent ceasefire violations along the Line of Control are an ominous indication of such belligerency.

Eight, India is reportedly involved in supporting the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan and the Baloch Liberation Army to destabilise Pakistan internally.

Nine, India has terminated the ‘composite dialogue’ with Pakistan. Its precondition for talks — an “absence of violence” — is impossible for Pakistan to meet.

Ten, the US and other major powers evince little interest in addressing the combustible mix of live disputes, terrorist threats, conventional arms imbalance and nuclear weapons in South Asia.

Surprised he didn't put in dancing hindoos in Madison Sq Garden and the film Haider as reasons in there.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 26 Oct 2014 21:15

You see the "conventional military balance is becoming progressively unfavourable to Pakistan" and "deterrence is being eroded" leading to "nuclear ‘threshold’ is now much lower".

OTOH "Kashmir - the nuclear flashpoint — continues to fester" but "US and other major powers evince little interest" and "Modi has obviously decided to adopt an aggressive posture towards Pakistan" while "supporting the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan and the Baloch Liberation Army".

They had to do something to bring the worlds attention to this nuclear flashpoint in an era of lower nuclear ‘threshold’. So they planned on the million man march to put across their point. Very logical if you ask me.

The only problem is if Modi does not buy the "lower nuclear ‘threshold’" and decides to test its limits nothing short of a nuclear war will restore it.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 26 Oct 2014 21:24

FYI, Munir Akram -- pointed out by an S.S. Bajwa on the dawn site:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/08/world ... arrel.html

U.S. Asks Pakistan to Lift U.N. Envoy's Immunity After a Violent Quarrel
By JULIA PRESTON
Published: January 8, 2003

Email
Print

The State Department has asked Pakistan to withdraw the diplomatic immunity of its envoy here, Munir Akram, after New York City prosecutors sought to bring misdemeanor assault charges against him as a result of a quarrel with a woman, United States and New York City officials said today.

Marjorie Tiven, the city commissioner in charge of United Nations issues, wrote to the United States Mission here on Dec. 26 requesting that the envoy's immunity be removed, according to Edward Skyler, the mayor's spokesman. Mr. Skyler said the Manhattan district attorney's office had advised city officials that it was prepared to prosecute if Mr. Akram's immunity was lifted. Pakistan has not yet informed the United States of any decision.

The legal dispute comes at a bad time for the ambassador. On Jan. 1, Pakistan took a seat on the 15-nation Security Council for a two-year term, just when the Council will be weighing whether to authorize war on Iraq.

On Dec. 10 at 1:36 a.m., the New York City police were summoned by an emergency 911 call to a residence at 47 East 92nd Street in Manhattan, police officials said.

Marijana Mihic, 35, told the 911 operator that a man whom she identified as her husband had smashed her head into a wall and that her arm hurt, according to the police dispatcher's notes of the conversation. She said the man had hit her before.

''Female caller states husband has diplomatic immunity,'' the dispatcher noted.

When police officers arrived, Ms. Mihic said that Mr. Akram was her ''boyfriend'' and that after an argument with him she had tried to leave.

''He prevented her from leaving, he grabbed her and she fell,'' said Lt. Brian Burke, a police spokesman. The police officers at the scene reported that Ms. Mihic had a bruise on her head, he said.

Mr. Akram, who is 57, was at the residence when the police arrived and identified himself as an ambassador.

''There was nothing really that the officers could do,'' Lt. Burke said. United Nations envoys enjoy immunity from local criminal prosecution.

A spokesman for the Pakistani Mission said today that Mr. Akram and his friend had reconciled.

''The ambassador and his friend both strongly believe that there is no basis for any legal action in this matter,'' said Mansoor Suhail, the spokesman. ''And they have both communicated that belief to the concerned authorities.''

Once the police officers arrived at the residence, Ms. Mihic seemed to become less alarmed, and she refused medical attention when an ambulance from the city's Emergency Medical Service went to the scene, city officials said.

The district attorney's office advised Ms. Tiven that Mr. Akram could be prosecuted for a misdemeanor charge of third degree assault, a law enforcement official said. She wrote to Patrick F. Kennedy, a senior diplomat at the United States mission here, and the State Department lodged its request with Pakistan on Dec. 28.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 26 Oct 2014 21:29

SSridhar wrote:Mani Shankar Aiyar may no longer have interests in India as he is old and his immediate family is settled abroad etc. or he may be representing oil lobby or US interests etc. All that could be true. But he has always been like this. This is not a new phenomenon. In one panel discussion, he clearly said that ever since he could remember he has been at loggerheads with G.Parthasarathy over Pakistan. That should go a long way back then. My suspicion is that like Man Mohan Singh, he has fond memories of Lahore (he grew up there) at an impressionable age and the allure is deeper. It could be as simple as that.

SSridhar Ji :

According to my information Mani Shankar Aiyar's Father was a Chartered Accountant in Lahore who was encouraged to stay on in Pakistan.

However, a day or so after 14th August 1947 the Followers of the World's Only Religion of Peace in the Land of the Pure and Home of the Terrorists assembled with Long Knives outside the Aiyers' place of abode and demanded that Mr. Mr. Aiyer Senior with family depart posthaste for India or either accept the Religion of Peace or be rendered to Pieces.

Regarding his Leanings towards the Land of the Pure and Home of the Terrorists it is either prior to his Family's departure at Lahore or during his posting in Karachi as an Indian Diplomat that the hosts inserted their Istiqlal into his Isteqbal - or vice versa - and since then he has been exhibited his Pakistani "Bent".

Cheers

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 26 Oct 2014 21:32

More on Munir Akram
http://www.outlookindia.com/article/Sex ... ity/218720

In Indian diplomatic circles, Munir Akram is infamous for his rabid rhetoric against New Delhi. Kashmir or nukes, Akram's visceral anti-India tirades are legion. In fact, the Brothers Akram—Munir and Zamir (who was earlier posted in India)—are known for the poisonous missiles they launch regularly at India. Munir, as spokesman of his foreign office, once called Salman Khursheed "kirai ka Muslim".

Both Munir and Zamir, who is now ambassador to Nepal, have made their reputation on the one thing that serves Pakistani diplomats well—loud anti-India rhetoric. They have successfully parleyed their bellicosity to endear themselves to the army establishment. Two days after taking his post in NY, Munir Akram threatened the use of nuclear weapons against India. "India should not have the license to kill with conventional weapons while Pakistan's hands are tied regarding other means to defend itself," he said. In Geneva, he regularly accused India of harbouring the lowest of low intentions against Pakistan because it declined to sign the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty in the mid-1990s. Says G. Parthasarthy, India's former high commissioner to Pakistan: "In my view, the senior diplomats of the 1980s like Niaz Naik, Riaz Piracha, Humayun Khan and Shahryar Khan were sophisticated people who could put their view points without being abrasive." But the later crop led by the Akram brothers, Riaz Khokhar and Shamshad Ahmed went to another school, one where more bile means more clout with the army and the ISI.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 26 Oct 2014 21:36

Is this really a Pakistani site?
http://new-pakistan.com/2014/10/24/fail ... -tensions/
http://new-pakistan.com/2014/10/21/paki ... and-peace/

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 26 Oct 2014 21:42

A_Gupta wrote:FYI, Munir Akram -- pointed out by an S.S. Bajwa on the dawn site:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/08/world ... arrel.html

U.S. Asks Pakistan to Lift U.N. Envoy's Immunity After a Violent Quarrel
By JULIA PRESTON
Published: January 8, 2003

Email
Print

The State Department has asked Pakistan to withdraw the diplomatic immunity of its envoy here, Munir Akram, after New York City prosecutors sought to bring misdemeanor assault charges against him as a result of a quarrel with a woman, United States and New York City officials said today.

Marjorie Tiven, the city commissioner in charge of United Nations issues, wrote to the United States Mission here on Dec. 26 requesting that the envoy's immunity be removed, according to Edward Skyler, the mayor's spokesman. Mr. Skyler said the Manhattan district attorney's office had advised city officials that it was prepared to prosecute if Mr. Akram's immunity was lifted. Pakistan has not yet informed the United States of any decision.

The legal dispute comes at a bad time for the ambassador. On Jan. 1, Pakistan took a seat on the 15-nation Security Council for a two-year term, just when the Council will be weighing whether to authorize war on Iraq.

On Dec. 10 at 1:36 a.m., the New York City police were summoned by an emergency 911 call to a residence at 47 East 92nd Street in Manhattan, police officials said.

Marijana Mihic, 35, told the 911 operator that a man whom she identified as her husband had smashed her head into a wall and that her arm hurt, according to the police dispatcher's notes of the conversation. She said the man had hit her before.

''Female caller states husband has diplomatic immunity,'' the dispatcher noted.

When police officers arrived, Ms. Mihic said that Mr. Akram was her ''boyfriend'' and that after an argument with him she had tried to leave.

''He prevented her from leaving, he grabbed her and she fell,'' said Lt. Brian Burke, a police spokesman. The police officers at the scene reported that Ms. Mihic had a bruise on her head, he said.

Mr. Akram, who is 57, was at the residence when the police arrived and identified himself as an ambassador.

''There was nothing really that the officers could do,'' Lt. Burke said. United Nations envoys enjoy immunity from local criminal prosecution.

A spokesman for the Pakistani Mission said today that Mr. Akram and his friend had reconciled.

''The ambassador and his friend both strongly believe that there is no basis for any legal action in this matter,'' said Mansoor Suhail, the spokesman. ''And they have both communicated that belief to the concerned authorities.''

Once the police officers arrived at the residence, Ms. Mihic seemed to become less alarmed, and she refused medical attention when an ambulance from the city's Emergency Medical Service went to the scene, city officials said.

The district attorney's office advised Ms. Tiven that Mr. Akram could be prosecuted for a misdemeanor charge of third degree assault, a law enforcement official said. She wrote to Patrick F. Kennedy, a senior diplomat at the United States mission here, and the State Department lodged its request with Pakistan on Dec. 28.

This is usual NYPD and Amirkhan nonsense. That fellow has diplomatic immunity and they can do zilch to him. What these buggers forget that they could murder bakis in Bakistan and claim immunity at a later date and flee from bakistan. If they don't like the Baki Amby then can expel him, that's all they can do. Bakis should protest vehemently unlike meek submission by Indian Diplomutts. We should not glee at amirkhan's transgressions. We should stand firm and support bakis in this episode and demonstrate solidarity.

sadhana · Post by **sadhana** » 26 Oct 2014 21:56

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/tod ... 174605.ece
If I am not mistaken, Lakshmi Insurance headed by Mani Shankar Aiyar's father in Lahore was later folded into Life Insurance Corporation (LIC) during nationalization of insurance in 1956.

The story of the Lahore Pandit
EVERY year around this time, as Punjab celebrates the harvest festival of Baisakhi, the nation also remembers the horror of the Jallianwala Bagh massacre of April 13, 1919. But the one man who doggedly dug out details of the outrage to present them to the outside world is hardly ever remembered. Incredible as it may sound, that man was an Iyengar from Kumbakonam of the then Madras Province, and now in Tamil Nadu.

Pandit Santanam of Lahore, a self-effacing Tamilian, was the first to bring out the facts of the tragedy to the outside world from a blacked-out Punjab. But, unfortunately, his effort has not been adequately acknowledged. Orphaned at an early age, the boy from an orthodox Iyengar family was helped by his elder brothers to go to England for higher studies. The simple Tamilian met in London the Punjab Lion, Lala Lajpat Rai. On his return home in the early 1900s, K. Santanam was ostracised after he refused to undergo "purification ceremony" for having "crossed the seven seas".

The conservative society would not allow him to practise law nor would any parent give his daughter in marriage to the educated youth who dared to cross the seas. After spending some time with the Self-Respect Movement, spearheaded by the Justice Party, a dejected, but determined Santanam remembered his meeting with Lajpat Rai and journeyed to Lahore and made it his permanent home.

Santanam joined the Indian National Congress, the party that was born in 1885, the year of his own birth. "Pandit Santanam was in the reception committee of the Lahore Congress," recalls the former Prime Minister, Mr I. K. Gujral, who was then a teenager.

Lajpat Rai, impressed by Santanam's knowledge of finance and law, made him the chief of Lakshmi Insurance Company that he founded.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 26 Oct 2014 22:02

General Kadian openly stating on TV to Paki ' Incestual insectuals" that India will puncture their nooklear balloon must have sent the cold chill into Paki dill. The rats are rattled for sure . something has changed or changing their perspective and they cant seems to adapt or digest it. Modi wont provide any fig leaf to cover the Paki Sauverginity & let the world see the Paki Nang Angh Bhang. No face saving venue to be left for Paki to use and hope for another day.

arun · Post by **arun** » 26 Oct 2014 22:05

Then UN Secretary General Kofi Annan’s comments on the limited UN role in Jammu & Kashmir and on the limited efficacy of UN Security Council resolution on J&K. Comments made during his visit to the Indian Sub-Continent in March 2001.

Useful history to brush up now that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has gone whinging to the UN given India’s disproportionate retaliation to provocations on the IB and LoC:

Press encounter on arrival in Islamabad, 10 March, 2001 (unofficial transcript)

Good Evening, Ladies and Gentlemen,

I am very, very pleased to be here in Pakistan on my first visit as Secretary-General. …………………..

I also expect that the Pakistani authorities will raise the issue of Kashmir. I would like to encourage progress in the relations between Pakistan and India, so important for the peoples of both countries, who have so much in common. I call upon both countries to return to the spirit of the Lahore Declaration. This will require restraint, wisdom and constructive steps from both sides. In this connection, I will also be urging both countries to sign the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty as soon as possible.

We have much to discuss, and I look forward to using this opportunity to renew the bonds between Pakistan and the United Nations, and to make progress in the vital areas of peace and development. Thank you very much. I'll take some questions. ……………………

Q: Mr. Secretary-General, you have referred to Kashmir as a source of tension and I think you also referred to the Lahore Declaration. Will the UN be interested to implement its resolutions like it implemented in East Timor?

SG: I think the UN resolutions on Kashmir are on record and the UN has observers in the region. We have UNMOGIP. In fact, the Chief Military Observer is here.

When it comes to implementation of resolutions, I think we have to be clear here. The UN has two types of resolutions -- enforcement resolutions under Chapter VII and other resolutions, which require cooperation of both parties to get implemented. East Timor is a Chapter VII resolution. One often refers to Iraq. Iraq is a Chapter VII resolution. The resolution you are referring to here does not come under Chapter VII in the same sense. And these resolutions are not self-enforcing. And therefore, the cooperation of the two parties, the two parties discussing these issues and finding a peaceful way out, is the route I recommend.

Press encounter after meeting with the Chief Executive of Pakistan, General Pervez Musharraf, 11 March 2001, 8 p.m. Islamabad time (unofficial transcript) ……………………..

Q: Excellency, my question is that last night you have given a press statement regarding the Kashmir issue. The prescription was that India and Pakistan should cooperate on the Kashmir issue. The Chief Executive sitting around this room has already stated and offered India that he is ready to meet the Indian leadership any time--at any time, any place, and at any level. But the Indian government's response is not so positive. [Inaudible] what [should] the United Nations and the Secretary-General of the United Nations [do], do you suppose? What should we do, what should India do, and what should you do? Thank you.

SG: I think the efforts to come together should continue. India and Pakistan have had exchanges in the past. You've managed to get the Lahore [Declaration] going and I hope that in the future, hopefully not in the too distant future, that the kind of engagement that you are referring to will be possible and, of course, as Secretary-General I would encourage both parties to come together to discuss the enterprises.

Press encounter upon arrival at New Delhi, India, 15 March 2001 (unofficial transcript)

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I am delighted to be returning to India for my second visit as Secretary-General. ………………….

High on the agenda will also be regional issues, which I have been engaged with during my tour of South Asia. In particular, I will be urging a return to the spirit of the Lahore Declaration and to a renewal of the dialogue with Pakistan in order to reduce tensions and build confidence. This is essential to the peace of both nations and to the security of the people of Kashmir, who have endured too many years of violence and suffering.

As I said in Islamabad, you and Pakistan have too much in shared heritage by way of history, as well as family and cultural ties, not to resolve your differences. It is time to begin healing the wounds, to restore trust and to regain a sense of a common good and a common future. So long as grievances persist between both nations, and violence continues in Kashmir, you and Pakistan will be unable to tap the full potential of this important region. My good offices remain available should the parties wish to engage under UN auspices.

However, the important thing is that engagement begin, so that the peoples of both nations can embrace the opportunities of the new century.

This is the right time for India and Pakistan to resume the dialogue. Pakistan's leader General Musharraf assured me in Islamabad that he is ready to do so at any time. And, as I have said earlier, I stand ready to support the dialogue in any way that I can. Thank you. ……………………….

Q: Sir, are you carrying any particular message from Pakistan to the Indian leadership; from General Pervez Musharraf to the Indian leadership?

SG: I think I have already said enough. I already said enough.

Q: Sir, do you see any role for the UN Military Observer Group in Jammu and Kashmir in light of these statements?

SG: They have been around, they have been there for quite a while, and they have a mandate to be there. Obviously if they were, if India and Pakistan were, to engage and you had resolved the issue, there would be no need for the Observers. They'd be withdrawn.

Q: What was General Pervez Musharraf's reaction to your statement that the UN resolutions on Kashmir can't be implemented without India's assent. How did he react to it; how did the Pakistanis react to it?

SG: I really can't answer that but I did make my statement.

Q: Pakistan has been saying all along that a plebiscite is called for because that was [inaudible]?

SG: I think my statement is clear, my statement in Pakistan and my statement here is clear. Thank you very much.

Media Encounter following talks with Indian External Affairs Minister Jaswant Singh, New Delhi, 16 March 2001 (unofficial transcript) …………….

Q to J. Singh: Mr. Secretary-General yesterday said that this is the proper time for India and Pakistan to resume the dialogue with reference to the (Lahore Declaration). How do you react to it?

J. Singh: I appreciate the very wise counsel. The Secretary-General has voiced these words here, as also in Islamabad. India, as the initiator of the dialogue, remains committed to dialogue. The timing and the venue etc. of course has to be decided by the dialoguers themselves. We nevertheless continue to believe and hold that it is necessary that the dialogue should be successful. The conducive atmosphere for it must be prepared first.

Q to J. Singh: And it does not exist right now?

J. Singh: It must be prepared first.

Q to SG: Sir, what are your views on progress in Kashmir since you have visited both sides now?

SG: I think what...I am encouraged by the discussions I have held in the region and as you heard the Foreign Minister, they agree that the only way out is dialogue, the only way out is negotiations between the parties. And I had the chance to indicate that there are Security Council's resolutions which are important but they are not self-enforcing and the parties have to come together through dialogue to implement whatever agreements are taken, which the Security Council resolutions could bear up. But the parties have to really come together and negotiate. And I am encouraged that both parties are open and willing to talk. And I hope in due course, we will see them undertake that.

Weblink:

THE SECRETARY-GENERAL OFF THE CUFF – remarks made from 1 January to 30 April 2001

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 26 Oct 2014 22:21

Since Pakistan can not initiate a conventional war against India, it's option are limited to escalating terrorism against India. But with Modi/BJP in power even that option is diminished for fear of strong retaliation from India.

Given that, Pakistan will more or less try to continue in the same vane i.e. fire across LOC/IB and push LeT/Pakjabi-Taleban into the valley. Internationalization of the conflict will not bear any fruit for Pakistan.

James B · Post by **James B** » 26 Oct 2014 22:44

Kashmiris throw water bottles & tomatoes at Bilawal Bhutto Zardari at KashmirMillionMarch video report Pak channel

https://t.co/tWzNEv70qX

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 26 Oct 2014 23:16

Thousand jihadi rally cancelled due to violence.

Rageboi ka tamasha not working in 'burtania'.

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 26 Oct 2014 23:22

http://wap.business-standard.com/articl ... 713_1.html

Total Flop show by pakis.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 26 Oct 2014 23:35

With this flop show sponsored by BlowAll and fliends, all my doubts have been cleared of Bakistan having multiple power centers with no overwhelming one. The ISI/STFUPA used to be that force, it is no longer so.

Anyone can piss anywhere in the land of bure, it is a totally free country now, just as Arrah wished.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 Oct 2014 23:47

pankajs wrote:You see the "conventional military balance is becoming progressively unfavourable to Pakistan" and "deterrence is being eroded" leading to "nuclear ‘threshold’ is now much lower".

OTOH "Kashmir - the nuclear flashpoint — continues to fester" but "US and other major powers evince little interest" and "Modi has obviously decided to adopt an aggressive posture towards Pakistan" while "supporting the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan and the Baloch Liberation Army".

They had to do something to bring the worlds attention to this nuclear flashpoint in an era of lower nuclear ‘threshold’. So they planned on the million man march to put across their point. Very logical if you ask me.

The only problem is if Modi does not buy the "lower nuclear ‘threshold’" and decides to test its limits nothing short of a nuclear war will restore it.

Exactly, since the pro-Pak jerk MMS is no longer in power to prevent India from retaliating to even umpteen terror attacks, the corruption hungry Eye-talian & her cronies are no longer there to run things into the ground, whilst St Nero did his appointed task (which was to do nothing).. things have changed. Now the Indian establishment is going to teach TSP exactly what its worth & exploit their ample weaknesses to the hilt. No fig leaf of Pak loving leaders like MMS or MSA or the INCs appease Pak, means votes from IMs logic to hold back India either.

The current GOI is truly going to be a GOI, not a GOP (as it was well on its way to becoming under the previous dispensation) and Pakistan is going to learn very soon what it means to anger a tiger. We have always had the capability, but have been cursed with the Nehru-Gandhi and INC cabal and prevented from showing Pak what the average Indian thinks of them and can do to their establishment.

Now the fake gloves are off. Finally. We also have a nationalist PM in power this time around, and not somebody born in privilege to be conned by fake bonhomie. The Indian armed forces are second to none, our Intel & covert folks will finally be able to do their patriotic duty (as versus being shackled for appeasement politics) and our scientific personnel are also getting the wherewithal to develop their systems further and accomplish what they have wanted. Pakistan is, to put it mildly, in a vice, and that vice will tighten.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 27 Oct 2014 00:42

We also have to understand Pak mil/gov compulsions. If they do nothing they will fall in the eyes of mango abdul. If they start intense dueling with the Indians on the IB/LOC they will get back in spades and will have even more to explain to mango abdul. So what to do hanji to show that something is being done?

Talk up Kashmir struggle, raise it at UN, raise it at UNSC, raise it at OIC, raise it with all diplomats stationed in Islamabad and to cap it all organize a million man march in Londonistan. That can be sold to the mango abdul as a befitting response to India's aggression no?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 27 Oct 2014 01:03

SSridhar wrote:Will not allow India to resolve Kashmir issue in its way: Pakistan - PTI
Pakistan will not allow India to resolve the Kashmir issue in its own way

What does this mean? Even if magically, KMs were to opt for India instead of raising TSP flags at Lal Chowk, TSP won't accept that?

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 27 Oct 2014 01:21

Apparently this so called million March was organised by ex pm of Pok, having affiliations to PPP.
The plan was to organise an event for Baby bhutto where he could Score some political points by ranting on cashmere yet again. His recent rants have earned him quite a media space after being made chairman of PPP. This time from an international venue.

However, PTIans sensed this and fcuked up the whole thing by organising chaos-throwing shoes, tomatoes etc. and booing him out. The man arrested for throwing cans and shoe on blahwal happens to be nephew of Im the dim.

It's all motivated by internal politics rather some grand design IMHO.