Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct 2014

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby shiv » 07 Nov 2014 05:30

jamwal wrote:Pakistan is the "Lavatory of Islam". This means all Pakistanis are turds, farts and piss drops. Now if the turds, farts and piss drops are not flushed out, they stink even worse and spread disease in neighbourhood.


In case any Pakistani lurker thinks this is mere hate speech I would like to point out that polio is spread by the fecal-oral route which is a sophisticated way of saying that water supply and food gets contaminated with the shit of an infected person and the next person gets infected by eating that food contaminated with shit. Polio viruses are excreted in the crap of an infected person. Pakistan is the polio capital of the universe. Pakistan, the lavatory of Islam is not a bad description at all.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Shreeman » 07 Nov 2014 05:53

shiv wrote:
jamwal wrote:Pakistan is the "Lavatory of Islam". This means all Pakistanis are turds, farts and piss drops. Now if the turds, farts and piss drops are not flushed out, they stink even worse and spread disease in neighbourhood.


In case any Pakistani lurker thinks this is mere hate speech I would like to point out that polio is spread by the fecal-oral route which is a sophisticated way of saying that water supply and food gets contaminated with the shit of an infected person and the next person gets infected by
eating that food contaminated with shit. Polio viruses are excreted in the crap of an infected person. Pakistan is the polio capital of the universe. Pakistan, the lavatory of Islam is not a bad description at all.


I humbly protest this hate speech. Pakistan is the biggest victim of polio. It is being targetted by this biological warfare that should shake the conscience of the world. Due to theft of water by neighboring India, it is impossible to maintain the hygiene needed to prevent polio. Also, since western wars soak up all resources, the social security mechanisms are not able to support polio victims adequately creating double jeopardy. The world needs to help Pakistan defeat polio by providing clean water, electricity, schools, roads, civic infrastructure, electronic banking for distribution of aid, ambulances, corruption free elections, airports, sea ports, anti-piracy equipment, support for pakistan airlines to transport polio medicines, prosthetics, new research institutions led by aafia siddiqui, sewer and drainage systems, electric grid improvements, MRAP vehicles for transporting polio patients, courts, AEGIS radars for detecting polio and P3 airplanes for shooting it, refugee status, cotton subsidies, wheat imports for feeding polio victims, nobel prizes for being a victim, international understanding, restoration of cross border rupee parity.

Pakistanis are a proud people who never ask for anything in return for everything they do for the world.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby chetak » 07 Nov 2014 06:17

U.S. diplomat and longtime Pakistan expert is under federal investigation

By Anne Gearan and Adam Goldman November 6 at 5:49 PM
A veteran State Department diplomat and longtime Pakistan expert is under federal investigation as part of a counterintelligence probe and has had her security clearances withdrawn, according to U.S. officials.

The FBI searched the Northwest Washington home of Robin L. Raphel last month, and her State Department office was also examined and sealed, officials said. Raphel, a fixture in Washington’s diplomatic and think-tank circles, was placed on administrative leave last month, and her contract with the State Department was allowed to expire this week.

Two U.S. officials described the investigation as a counterintelligence matter, which typically involves allegations of spying on behalf of foreign governments. The exact nature of the investigation involving Raphel remains unclear. She has not been charged.

A spokesman for Raphel said she was cooperating with investigators but has not been told the “scope or nature or that she is the target” of any probe.

U.S. officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. Spokesmen with the FBI and the Justice Department’s National Security Division declined to comment.

Details of federal counterintelligence investigations are typically closely held and the cases can span years. Although Raphel has spent much of her career on Pakistan issues, it was unknown whether the investigation, being run by the FBI’s Washington Field Office, was related to her work with that country.

“We are aware of this law enforcement matter,” State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said. “The State Department has been cooperating with our law enforcement colleagues.”


US persuaded Pakistan to support Taliban chief Mullah Omar, reveals Hamid Mir


19 Oct 2014,
New Delhi: Noted Pakistani TV journalist Hamid Mir has revealed that it was senior US official Robin Raphel, who, in 1995, persuaded the then Pakistan Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto to support Taliban chief Mullah Omar in Afghanistan.
Hamid Mir was speaking at Idea Exchange with Indian Express in News Delhi.
The Pakistani journalist, who has interviewed Mullah Omar once and Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden thrice in the past described how US persuaded Benazir Bhutto.
"The Taliban movement emerged in Afghanistan in 1994. In 1995, I was travelling with the then PM Benazir Bhutto to the US. Bhutto met ambassador Robin Raphel in New York. We came to know that Raphel asked Bhutto to announce her support to the Afghan Taliban.
"It was very disturbing. I wrote a column from New York that here is the first elected woman PM in the whole Muslim world, the Afghan Taliban are imposing a ban on girls' education, and she had been sked by Robin Raphel, another woman, to announce her support for the Afghan Taliban.
"When we were coming from New York, the PM called me on the plane and said, 'You are criticising me'. I said, 'Yes, this is democracy. I don't like Taliban and you are supporting Taliban at the behest of raphel'. So she asked her Interior Minister to brief me why the taliban are good for Pakistan.
"After a few days, the Interior Minister organised a briefing for me and Nursat Javed, a colleague, and explained that we were using the taliban as the "pipeline police".
"We wanted a gas pipeline from Uzbekistan to Pakistan and there was nobody who could protect it because the government in Kabul, the North Alliance, was supported by the Indians and the Iranians and they might destroy the gas pipeline..I said okay, I would like to meet Mullah Omar. The Interior Minister said okay.
"I met Mullah Omar in Kandahar. When Mullah Omar asked me why I wrote against him, I said because he was supporting the Americans. I said Raphel was supporting him. He asked who is Raphel. I said she is a lady. He said, 'There is no power and no strength save in Allah!. A lady is supporting me!". I was astonished he was not aware Raphel was American.
"Mullah Omar said, 'If I fix your meeting with a big enemy of America, then will you write that I am not an American agent? I asked who is that enemy. He said Osama bin Laden. That was the end of 1995 and Osama bin Laden was not in Afghanistan at that time. He came to Afghanistan in May 1996, then the government of Benazir Bhutto was toppled in November 1996."

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Vivasvat » 07 Nov 2014 06:18

Shrilleen's gift for Maulana Diesel? :eek:
Who's the other Motorham?

SILENCERS FOR CARS, TRUCKS, WAGONS
edit: hot linking not allowed. showing pic as a URL.
Last edited by Vivasvat on 07 Nov 2014 06:48, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Vivasvat » 07 Nov 2014 06:30

Modi's tough love seems to have wielded results.
The nutty nation rattles it sabre, froths at the mouth, but then says it's better to bend over(Old habits die hard).
A Change In Tune
Mr Modi, unlike Mr Nawaz Sharif, has made absolutely no attempt at peace. Instead of behaving like the Prime Minister of the world’s largest democracy, he is playing the role of a small time BJP leader; shamelessly warmongering, stoking hate and pandering to populist and nationalist notions. Is this strategy? The Defence Minister initiates peace, which India too sorely needs, while the Prime Minister keeps up appearances to milk every last vote from the population? In any case, Pakistan’s response should remain the same.
Yes, Kashmir is a vital issue, on which a strong principled stance must be taken. Yes, the Indian “red lines” are unreasonable, seeking to isolate a significant stakeholder from any dialogue. But Pakistan must have its priorities straight. This chance at normalised relations, flimsy as it is, needs to be availed.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Raja Bose » 07 Nov 2014 06:47

chetak wrote:U.S. diplomat and longtime Pakistan expert is under federal investigation

By Anne Gearan and Adam Goldman November 6 at 5:49 PM
A veteran State Department diplomat and longtime Pakistan expert is under federal investigation as part of a counterintelligence probe and has had her security clearances withdrawn, according to U.S. officials.

The FBI searched the Northwest Washington home of Robin L. Raphel last month, and her State Department office was also examined and sealed, officials said. Raphel, a fixture in Washington’s diplomatic and think-tank circles, was placed on administrative leave last month, and her contract with the State Department was allowed to expire this week.

Two U.S. officials described the investigation as a counterintelligence matter, which typically involves allegations of spying on behalf of foreign governments. The exact nature of the investigation involving Raphel remains unclear. She has not been charged.

A spokesman for Raphel said she was cooperating with investigators but has not been told the “scope or nature or that she is the target” of any probe.

U.S. officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. Spokesmen with the FBI and the Justice Department’s National Security Division declined to comment.

Details of federal counterintelligence investigations are typically closely held and the cases can span years. Although Raphel has spent much of her career on Pakistan issues, it was unknown whether the investigation, being run by the FBI’s Washington Field Office, was related to her work with that country.

“We are aware of this law enforcement matter,” State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said. “The State Department has been cooperating with our law enforcement colleagues.”


US persuaded Pakistan to support Taliban chief Mullah Omar, reveals Hamid Mir


Well....well....well....Karma is a female dog, ain't it? :rotfl: Though I have a distinct feeling, that GOTUS in order to appease Modi-led India is simply letting one of its lower level babus (namely, Robin Raphael madam) take the fall publicly. I am sure she will be ensconced somewhere comfy for the rest of her life, below the radar, for taking one for the team.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby A_Gupta » 07 Nov 2014 07:03

Excuses, excuses:
http://www.dawn.com/news/1142667/the-li ... and-did-it

The famous foreign hand that’s behind all terrorist attacks and political instability in Pakistan. Available in more than a dozen colours and makes – American, Indian, Iranian, Russian, Afghan, British, French, Zionist, Freemason, Coke, Pepsi and the Illuminati....

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby shiv » 07 Nov 2014 07:19

Raja Bose wrote:
chetak wrote:U.S. diplomat and longtime Pakistan expert is under federal investigation


Well....well....well....Karma is a female dog, ain't it? :rotfl: Though I have a distinct feeling, that GOTUS in order to appease Modi-led India is simply letting one of its lower level babus (namely, Robin Raphael madam) take the fall publicly. I am sure she will be ensconced somewhere comfy for the rest of her life, below the radar, for taking one for the team.


I don't think GOTUS has ever done anything simply to "please India". I think Robin Raphael was probably bought off/won over by the Pakis. A hunky TFTA may well have charmed her and she could have done things that were technically pro-Pakistan and anti-India. In an era when this was acceptable the US would have paid no attention. But now, with Pakistan being accused by all and sundry, skeletons are coming out of the closet and some people who may have exceeded their brief may have to face the music.

We know damn well that Chuck Yeager was more Paki than Pakis and probably (illegally) flew missions for PAF. And I am sure the US knew very well what was happening but chose to do nothing because it did not affect US policy. Maybe Raphael did worse.
Last edited by shiv on 07 Nov 2014 07:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby khan » 07 Nov 2014 07:20

For those of us who need a refresher on what the U.S. was saying when the Kashmiri insurgency was at its peak, according to Bhrama Chellany

The Clinton administration’s obsession with Kashmir, for example, owed a lot to Robin L. Raphel (who helped engineer the formation of the Hurriyat) and Madeline Albright (who had been swayed by her father’s UN stint there). Obama has yet to assemble his foreign-policy team. It is thus too early to say that he will seek to play an interventionist role on Kashmir or mount greater non-proliferation pressure.


This was the early-mid 90's when our position was weakest economically and militarily. The Kashmiri terrorists were at their peak. Quite fitting that she was an ISI mole. Keep an eye out for Madalene Albright in the news - she might be next shoe that drops.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Anujan » 07 Nov 2014 07:22

Robin Raphael was the one overseeing the disbursement of money for Pakis. Notably the Carry-Logger money. Before that she worked for a lobbying firm employed by the pakis.

One of two things probably happened. She either was caught with her hand inside the cookie jar, skimming funds off of carry-logger or she leaked negotiating points of Senator John Carry-Logger to Pakistan and rubbed him the wrong way. Just being pro-Pak or anti-India or lobbying for Pakis, wont get the ire of Unkil, who doesnt care.

Ms Halfbright, after playing a key part in bombing serbia, now owns several companies there.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Shaktimaan » 07 Nov 2014 07:31

This explains a hell of a lot. We've spent a lot of time here eating goli after goli of Hajmola due to Rabid Raphel's pro Paki actions. Turns out she was on their payroll?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby shiv » 07 Nov 2014 07:35

Anujan wrote:
One of two things probably happened. She either was caught with her hand inside the cookie jar, skimming funds off of carry-logger or she leaked negotiating points of Senator John Carry-Logger to Pakistan and rubbed him the wrong way.

I wouldn't be surprised if Pakis set her up. If US money was given to Pakis with her endorsement - she may have done that legally, but Pakis would have used that money (skimmed it off) and used it partially to ply her with hospitality and gifts (Freedom to travel anywhere by PAF aircraft and be hosted, wined and dined along with friends) - in exchange for her services.

To think that I spent decades in my younger days thinking "Hey its us Indians who are corrupt like this. The West is great because they simply don't do this sort of stuff." Talk about a colonized mind :roll:

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Anujan » 07 Nov 2014 07:51

Here is a very old article

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 428632.cms

In his memoirs 'Diplomatic Channels', Kris Srinivasan, 17 years after he demitted office as foreign secretary, reveals that India's external intelligence agency, RAW, snooped on a telephone conversation between a reputedly pro-Pakistan US assistant secretary of state for South Asia, Robin Raphel, and then US ambassador in Islamabad, which confirmed that the US would not back a draft resolution against India on Kashmir moved by Pakistan at the United Nations :mrgreen:

India soon came to know of the frustration of Raphel — "which we came to hear from a phone intercept," says Srinivasan. She informed her colleague, the US ambassador, that she had pressed for an affirmative vote for the Pakistan resolution, but had been blocked by the "higher-ups". RAW successfully tapped Raphel's call, despite this being from Washington to Islamabad, and apparently forwarded a tape and transcript to Srinivasan. 8)

Interestingly, as a decoy, India had moved a draft resolution in the UN first committee on the desirability of complete elimination of nuclear weapons — based on various previous public pronouncements by the US, Russia and China — within a fixed time-frame, which had, in fact, found co-sponsors. This alarmed the Americans, who were pressing for a resolution favouring a Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. They promptly despatched a senior arms control expert to Delhi to ask India to desist. South Block withdrew the draft, conveying to Washington that it would reciprocally expect the same attitude when it came to India's concerns. :twisted: :wink:

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby partha » 07 Nov 2014 07:55

^
That's top notch diplomacy by SDREs.

Has anyone read "Diplomatic Channels" book mentioned in the ToI report?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby shiv » 07 Nov 2014 08:09

partha wrote:^
That's top notch diplomacy by SDREs.

Has anyone read "Diplomatic Channels" book mentioned in the ToI report?

Yes indeed. To be held up against the fact that we have been taught that such Chankian actions cannot come for our people.

Another classic one is the way a just-retired old Fokker Friendship aircraft of the Indian Airlines was brought back into service just to allow two "khalistani" terrorists (who were given toy guns) to hijack it to Lahore in 1971 where it was blown up. That gave India the excuse we needed to stop Paki overflights over India which were being used to resupply the genocidal Paki rapists in Bangladesh in the months before the 1971 war :D

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby JE Menon » 07 Nov 2014 08:14

^
partha, this kind of shite happens on a day to day basis, practically. Nothing exceptional there.

BTW, I would withhold comment on whom Raphel (who was a beeaatch) was spying for until the matter is disclosed by Amirkhan.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby chetak » 07 Nov 2014 08:17

shiv wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:{quote="chetak"}U.S. diplomat and longtime Pakistan expert is under federal investigation


Well....well....well....Karma is a female dog, ain't it? :rotfl: Though I have a distinct feeling, that GOTUS in order to appease Modi-led India is simply letting one of its lower level babus (namely, Robin Raphael madam) take the fall publicly. I am sure she will be ensconced somewhere comfy for the rest of her life, below the radar, for taking one for the team.{/quote}


I don't think GOTUS has ever done anything simply to "please India". I think Robin Raphael was probably bought off/won over by the Pakis. A hunky TFTA may well have charmed her and she could have done things that were technically pro-Pakistan and anti-India. In an era when this was acceptable the US would have paid no attention. But now, with Pakistan being accused by all and sundry, skeletons are coming out of the closet and some people who may have exceeded their brief may have to face the music.

We know damn well that Chuck Yeager was more Paki than Pakis and probably (illegally) flew missions for PAF. And I am sure the US knew very well what was happening but chose to do nothing because it did not affect US policy. Maybe Raphael did worse.


as opposed to people who may have taken off their briefs??

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Nandu » 07 Nov 2014 08:27

saip wrote:Nutty nation is conducting a poll whether pakis should stop talking to hurryrats. Please go and vote yes!



What happened to it? Not on front page, and not here either, any more. http://nation.com.pk/e-polls

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby partha » 07 Nov 2014 08:39

JE Menon wrote:^
partha, this kind of shite happens on a day to day basis, practically. Nothing exceptional there.

I'm sure it's normal but these kind of success stories don't become public too often unlike the failures hence appreciating :)
BTW, I would withhold comment on whom Raphel (who was a beeaatch) was spying for until the matter is disclosed by Amirkhan.

My bet is on ISI but it's also possible it'll not be disclosed.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby CRamS » 07 Nov 2014 08:44

I'll wait for the juicy tit-bits, but isn't it the case that Robin Raphael made up with India and was a frequent visitor to India of late? I even recall an interview she gave on DDM where she said after so much blood, LoC == IB is the only solution to the "core issue".

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby JE Menon » 07 Nov 2014 09:05

^partha - sure it is a matter for appreciation, and much required kudos for our agencies. Usually only brickbats are flung at them.

^CRams - are you suggesting she worked for India?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby chetak » 07 Nov 2014 09:08

^^^

India is reduced to turning a 67 year old hag?? :shock:

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby sadhana » 07 Nov 2014 09:15

Hey don't be ageist/sexist.

My wild guess is she was in touch with Taliban top brass via ISI & prob. violated the terms of her employment, which was contract based after her retirement in 2005. What she could do in 1990s with Taliban with Clinton govt sanction now in 2014 crossed the line and became unethical(my guess).

People don't really change : what they did 20 years ago they prob. still keep doing today. Could be the same with her.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Raja Ram » 07 Nov 2014 09:15

From the few occasional interactions that I have had with people in the know of things, India apparently has a formidable reputation in terms of Counter Intelligence over the years. I don't have anything else to support that view except the people who did give this assertion were persons of impeccable integrity and very very low profile.

It is indeed possible that the Ms. Robin Raphael was compromised at some point in time. It is also well within the realm of possibility that there were some inputs provided from Indian side. But this is just a speculation on my part. It is however pertinent to point out that Ms. Raphael was almost a persona non-grata in India and when Richard Holbrooke was appointed as AfPak representative, he did an initial putsch to include India in his remit. He was strongly rebuffed by the GOI and one of the members in his team was Ms. Raphael.

The current situation, as officially put out by the GOTUS is that she is not a subject of investigation - or at least there is no one confirming that she is under investigation. One has to therefore wait if indeed she is under investigation. What we should also keep in mind is the fact that should Ms. Raphael's dealings with Pakistan has been in conflict and been against US national interests, then it is a major embarrassment for the US and its intelligence agency.

It is to be noted that Ms. Raphael started her career in The Company based out of Virginia and no one ever leaves the services of The Company completely. It is not the first time that the US has been found wanting in its Counter Intelligence capabilities. However, if there is a link to the ISI in Pakistan, this will be a first time ever that the USG State Department Official of a senior rank has been compromised by the efforts of a failed non-state like territory that is in fact at the mercy of the US in various ways. That will be too much egg on the face for the image of the GOTUS.

The turning of Dawood Gilani by the ISI is not surprising if there has been a turning of a high ranking US Diplomat who wielded significant influence over policy and decisions. It is therefore quite possible, that the ramifications of this investigation is very significant and the GOTUS is likely to want the details to be kept under the carpet. However, one can be sure that the GOTUS will do a thorough investigation to uncover the level of intrusion and this may result in some actions.

A keen observer can look out for the actions that stem out of it and assess the potential damage done and the level of intrusion that has happened. I am sure a lot of such keen observers around the world will be watching this from the sidelines with interest.

Just a ramble. Take it for what is worth.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Prem » 07 Nov 2014 09:40

As known, so many Mottas and Chottas AfPak skelton are gonna come tumbling down the diplomatic stairs. Hope they trace the case back all the way to the Original Sin of Talibani Pakibani air lifting from Kunduz .

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Anujan » 07 Nov 2014 09:42

shiv wrote:Another classic one is the way a just-retired old Fokker Friendship aircraft of the Indian Airlines was brought back into service just to allow two "khalistani" terrorists (who were given toy guns) to hijack it to Lahore in 1971 where it was blown up. That gave India the excuse we needed to stop Paki overflights over India which were being used to resupply the genocidal Paki rapists in Bangladesh in the months before the 1971 war :D


Guess who was among the poor hapless hijacked passengers? One Mr Doval.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Prem » 07 Nov 2014 09:56

Anujan wrote:
shiv wrote:Guess who was among the poor hapless hijacked passengers? One Mr Doval.

:rotfl:
No doubt Paki are pulling their hairs ever since he became NSA.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby kmkraoind » 07 Nov 2014 10:00

Pakistan has successful male honey-trappers. Cases of Madhuri Gupta and Robin Raphel proves that.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby JE Menon » 07 Nov 2014 10:03

For those who are interested in tidbits about Indian CI, read Robert Baer's book about his initial years in US intelligence (can't remember the exact name now). He was posted in India. There are some details, the usual patronising, condescending nonsense, but that's OK and expecting otherwise would be the real McCaulayite reaction. Go past that and understand it from our perspective.

Also there are B. Raman & Gen. VK Singh's books. I haven't read the latter, but B. Raman's book is excellent and a must read in my opinion. It has a slight political colouring, but I suppose it is impossible to be otherwise given the predominance of the former ruling party in those years.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Kashi » 07 Nov 2014 10:04

kmkraoind wrote:Pakistan has successful male honey-trappers. Cases of Madhuri Gupta and Robin Raphel proves that.


And possibly Madame Unfair..

Not to say that they lack female honey-trappers. There was this British bloke who had to be taken to hospital for exhaustion after a session with some Motorhama from PISS..I believe her name was Maria Sultan.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby sooraj » 07 Nov 2014 10:30

sounds similar to HOMELAND tv show these days

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby partha » 07 Nov 2014 10:34

JE Menon wrote:Also there are B. Raman & Gen. VK Singh's books. I haven't read the latter, but B. Raman's book is excellent and a must read in my opinion. It has a slight political colouring, but I suppose it is impossible to be otherwise given the predominance of the former ruling party in those years.

+1 for B Raman's book and also Shri Amar Bhushan's 'Escape to Nowhere'.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Raja Ram » 07 Nov 2014 10:42

shiv,

I have been giving a lot of thought on your writings over the last few days and I believe that you were one of the first people to zero in on one simple fact - the artificial entity's survival or demise is not something that is an outcome of what the artificial entity called Pakistan does or does not do. It is more of what its benefactors do or not do with regard to Pakistan. In that sense, should India's strategic objective be more towards doing whatever is necessary to Pakistan to push it to its logical conclusion which is the dissolution of the artificial entity? Or should it acknowledge the reality that what it does or does not do with Pakistan is not the key but what it does with the benefactors will have a greater outcome?

These questions are playing on my mind for a few days now. Of course, I am no expert when it comes to these things like your or SSridhar saar, but I have been reading up some of the old books and articles on the policy of RN Kao - "Let them stew in their Own Juice" doctrine that India adopted along with the speech Shri Doval made at SASTRA University where he classified options broadly into Defensive, Defensive Offence and Offence when it comes to response to Pakistani strategy. It made me think if institutionally GOI and our political leadership have been far more realistic in their assessments than they have been given credit for.

India probably has long decided that they have to work towards a long attrition battle across multiple fronts to make the cost of supporting Pakistan become untenable for the Maai Baaps of Pakistan - including the biggest one of them all the US. Therefore, the GOI decided to take the less glamorous, more boring path of inexorable progress and development, building national consensus albeit inefficiently, investing heavily in social infrastructure and just about doing enough to keep a gap in terms of strategic and military power to deal with a slow disintegrating Pakistan. Of course, there were miscalculations along the way in terms of not reading China or playing into the hands of political expediency in terms of turning a blind eye to sectarian extremism at first in terms of Punjab and Kashmir. But by and large, GOI seems to have had an institutional approach that reflected a better understanding of who we were really against, our powers and capabilities with regard to them and hence followed a calibrated policy.

That is the part of me thinking that Indian babudom and political class can and do have the ability of thinking objectively and strategically. But the other part of is doubting this. Piskologically speaking, can one really believe that we have that kind of vision or capability amongst our elected rulers and appointed rulers? Do their track record of utterances and actions back up that kind of an assessment that they are indeed capable of thinking through things? I get confused when this "doubting Thomas" part of me asserts itself.

The reason I address this ramble to you, is because you are as good a piskological guru as you are a strategic guru and I felt that you have been amongst the first to break free from conventional thinking when it comes to thinking about Pakistan. So if you can, please do clear the cobwebs that are in my head and show me the light. Thanks

chetak
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby chetak » 07 Nov 2014 10:43

JE Menon wrote:For those who are interested in tidbits about Indian CI, read Robert Baer's book about his initial years in US intelligence (can't remember the exact name now). He was posted in India. There are some details, the usual patronising, condescending nonsense, but that's OK and expecting otherwise would be the real McCaulayite reaction. Go past that and understand it from our perspective.

Also there are B. Raman & Gen. VK Singh's books. I haven't read the latter, but B. Raman's book is excellent and a must read in my opinion. It has a slight political colouring, but I suppose it is impossible to be otherwise given the predominance of the former ruling party in those years.


was it "see no evil"??

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Vayutuvan » 07 Nov 2014 10:49

Is'nt it the same book which starts with burning of american embassy in Pakistan? But then most of the book then goes onto Saudi Arabia oil fields etc. supposed to be the basis of the movie Syriana, IIRC.
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 08 Nov 2014 07:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby kmkraoind » 07 Nov 2014 11:06

Its an 2009 blog by B. Raman on Robin Raphel.

ROBIN RAPHEL: OLD ANTI-INDIA HAND TO JOIN HOLBROOKE'S TEAM ?

chetak
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby chetak » 07 Nov 2014 11:09

matrimc wrote:Is'nt it the same book which starts with burning of american gassy in Pakistan? But then most of the book then goes onto Saudi Arabia abs oil fields etc. supposed to be the basis of the movie Syriana, IIRC.


Are you talking about "sleeping with the devil"??

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby JE Menon » 07 Nov 2014 11:23

Yes I think it was that book Chetak (See no Evil). I read it many years ago.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby partha » 07 Nov 2014 11:30

Ms Raphael's recent interview from June 2014.
http://newsweekpakistan.com/people-know-better/
Between 1993 and 1994, we’d go to Afghanistan and meet with the usual cast of characters—Hekmatyar, Massoud, Rabbani, Wakil—and we’d say the same thing to all of them: there is no military solution to this, work out a political arrangement in which everyone has a voice acceptable to the broad population of Afghanistan. They pretended to listen but didn’t really. They’d start off every conversation with, ‘Thank you very much for all your help.’ All of them were always so polite, their mothers taught them well! They were conservative Pashtuns who were motivated in the first instance to disarm the warlords and restore a certain kind of law and order.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s government has announced a hands-off policy on Afghanistan. What’s your take on his government’s performance a year in office?

Whether it’s the economy, energy, extremism or education, they have their priorities right. Their strong suit is on the economics side. Finance Minister Ishaq Dar is an amazing implementer. It’s like he’s got a computer in his brain because he doesn’t forget anything and can spit out statistics. He’s much better informed than anybody else in the room and it’s made a huge difference.{ :rotfl: } They prioritized right in terms of approaching the problem. If you’re going to fix the economy, what do you do? You pick the low hanging fruit. Now it’s going to get harder and harder with this budget and how they’re going to deal with tax issues, but Dar has a plan. They’re also focusing very much on energy. The last government tried a number of times to set up an LNG terminal but they just couldn’t get it organized.


USAID has funded some 3,000 small-scale projects in the federally-administered tribal areas of Pakistan. Can you tell us more about this?

Basically the way it works is that we have U.S.-based contractors who can look over money and manage oversight. They went to Peshawar and hired a bunch of people—many of whom had worked for NGOs, some used to be in the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa government. These people were integrated into the FATA Secretariat, even though they were paid by the contractor. So, representing the FATA Secretariat, these people would go to a village, get the community together with a political agent or tribal leaders, and say, ‘Okay, what is it that this community wants or needs most? Do you want a roof on your school, a water pump, a retaining wall?’ They would have to go through that process of coming to a consensus. They’d then do the job quickly and the villagers would say, ‘Ah, our government is actually pretty responsive’—which was the whole idea. We selected areas where there had been fighting and the insurgents had moved on somewhere else. It’s a really good system but it took a while to find its groove.

whoa! 3000 projects in FATA. Intel goldmine.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Postby Vayutuvan » 07 Nov 2014 11:58

chetak wrote:
matrimc wrote:Is'nt it the same book which starts with burning of american gassy in Pakistan? But then most of the book then goes onto Saudi Arabia abs oil fields etc. supposed to be the basis of the movie Syriana, IIRC.


Are you talking about "sleeping with the devil"??

That is right. I think I mixed up two books.


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