Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct 2014

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Nov 2014 09:42

Rahul M wrote:both those do exist, rare as they are. parents these days.

PRYANIKA exists? Honest?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 09 Nov 2014 09:57

$50 billion Chinese investment was promised to Pakistan 8 months ago:
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/biz/inside. ... onanalysis

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 09 Nov 2014 10:01

Haha, written by a RAW agent and inserted into the Pak. Tribune:
http://tribune.com.pk/story/553008/view ... worthless/

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 09 Nov 2014 10:22

Apparently the only thing Doval did not do was to tell Jibril what to tell Mohammed.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 09 Nov 2014 10:25

Saars,
is it possible that the four fathers of the bakis are abandoning them and trying to raise the Eye Yes Eye Yell as the new off-spring?

Maybe Cheen is not involved, but other 3 fathers seem to be closely connected.

For the Turks, its obvious. It seems like a neo-ottaman project. But, I can't understand why the Barbaria is supporting them.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 09 Nov 2014 11:16

OT

shiv wrote:
Rahul M wrote:both those do exist, rare as they are. parents these days.
PRYANIKA exists? Honest?

in.linkedin.com/pub/priyanika-chopra/4a/b72/639
https://www.facebook.com/hamdulepari?re ... wse_search
https://www.facebook.com/kpriyanika

etc.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 09 Nov 2014 11:36

johneeG wrote:For the Turks, its obvious. It seems like a neo-ottaman project. But, I can't understand why the Barbaria is supporting them.

Foot soldiers (some sort of Kabila mercenaries). In case, if there is a rebellion against Kingship, then who will send reinforcements. Turkey - Arabs still suspicious about ottomans. Other Araps - They cannot seek help from other tribes. Shia Persians - No chances. West - Its like pouring oil into rebellion fire. Al-Hind - They are still Kaffirs.

Only Bakis will sent troops without asking questions and will do all the dirty work behalf of King and will be content with minimum crumbs (they do not want a pie in power). Palestine suppression in Jordan and recently in Qatar, rentier boys proved that. Even during Mecca rebellion in 1979, it was Pakis foot soldiers that house Al Saud requested.

If you want to break grip of Al Sauds on KSA, first break Pakistan.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 09 Nov 2014 18:28

Sartaj Aziz, September 2014, in the US, at the Council of Foreign Relations:
http://www.cfr.org/pakistan/promoting-u ... ies/p33524

MCINNIS BOIES: Thank you, Mr. Aziz. You have touched on many of the more important developments that have occurred in recent times. As you say, there is a new face in Pakistan, and we're beginning to see it here.

I want to start in a slightly different way, and that is to ask you about Pakistan's population growth and the implication for its security going forward. It is said that Pakistan today is Malthusian. The population is growing far faster than the capacity of the government to feed and clothe and have the capacity and infrastructure to take care of them.

But more important, it's said that some 44 percent of young Pakistanis are so malnourished that they will not grow either physically or mentally to full adult capacity. And they, in turn, will have a reproduction rate that's even higher. Is this something that concerns you? Is the world wrong in that perception? But if it is true, what is it that Pakistan is doing to address that issue?

AZIZ: I think the first part of your assessment and correction is correct, the second is not. It's true that our population growth rate, unfortunately, doesn't compare very favorably either with India or even Bangladesh. China, of course, has gone to 1 percent long time ago.

The setback, of course, came in the '70s, when Ayub Khan was president in the '60s, he was very keen on population and made very successful population program. But when Zia-ul-Haq came in 1977, he somehow deemphasized the program, and so we had a very sort of setback to the population (inaudible) program.

So in the '80s, we grew at about 3 percent, which was very -- one of the highest growth rates. In the '80s, then this thing was reversed in some respects, and when the '98 census was done, the growth rate came down to 2.6 percent, then 2.1 percent, and now it is 1.9 percent, the annual population growth rate. India came down to 1.5 percent sometime ago. Bangladesh, also.

So as the result, if we had the same population growth rate as India or Bangladesh, today our per capita income would be much higher (inaudible) would be much higher, so I agree that this (inaudible) but now it is catching up.

And in our assessment so far, in light of our experience, the most important element for population control is female literacy. If there are girls educated, then obviously you have. Contraceptives, et cetera, are fine, but unless you have basic education and education for girls.

So there in the last ten years or fifteen years, I would say, the total involvement of girls has been moving faster than that of boys. So it is one dimension that is helping.

So now the growth rate has come down below 2 percent, is 1.9 percent, and the target is to take it to 1.5 percent by 2020. If we achieve that, then we are now at replacement level, and so it will become slightly better.

But this catching up, of course, is very difficult, but we do have a young population, as a result. And a young population is also an asset. If you educate them and train them, then obviously they play a very major role. So let's hope that it's not an unmissed blessing.

In terms of nutrition, we have very good food security, are generally food self-sufficient. We have some specific deficiencies in certain mountainous areas, iron deficiencies, salt deficiencies, and other things, we do have a nutritional problem. But if you look at the UNICEF goals on child nutrition, other things, it is not as bad.

There is, of course, in the last few years, some -- particularly last six years, the growth rate has been 3 percent and, therefore, per capita income has not gone up, so poverty-related malnutrition may be there, but as compared to other countries, our food security situation is much better. So I hope as the population growth rate controls further, and the answer is further emphasis on female education.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 09 Nov 2014 19:06

Not sure if this pic is common, this is the first time I have seen it

https://twitter.com/IndiaHistorypic/sta ... 72/photo/1

1971: Pak Soldiers Surrender to Indian Army in Bangladesh

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 09 Nov 2014 19:21

^ Never gets old.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQb6mhgBVmE

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 09 Nov 2014 19:35

ah, thanks pgbhat!

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 09 Nov 2014 19:38

A few thousand paki and Egyptian soldiers (35,000 or so) are hired guns of KSA types on border, or for suppressing minority protests - which seems to never come out. Wonder why we don't see pictures of paki soldiers crushing protests by minorities in our media.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 09 Nov 2014 19:45

vishvak wrote:A few thousand paki and Egyptian soldiers (35,000 or so) are hired guns of KSA types on border, or for suppressing minority protests - which seems to never come out. Wonder why we don't see pictures of paki soldiers crushing protests by minorities in our media.

What a sacrilegious idea!!

burkha and turdesai would never go for it.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 09 Nov 2014 19:52

Article on Iqbal, calling to be deconstructed.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1143139/iqbal- ... tial-quest

In the years that followed, India’s troubled pluralism decisively settled for a majoritarian and market-oriented socioeconomic paradigm; in the process of democracy taking root, Urdu was gradually but virtually wiped out from the place of its birth, and with it also died the all-inclusive Muslim secular sensibility.

The saving grace may be that secularism of the state, despite being under threat from the now electorally popular and now rejected Hindutva, has managed to survive, but it has extracted a heavy toll all the same: no Iqbal, not even an Abul Kalam Azad, will henceforth sprout from the Indian soil, because the Muslim sensibility in India that groomed such stalwarts has died an unsung death.

Only the likes of Darul Uloom or the integrated mainstream citizen, for whom being Muslim is just a personal statistic, and not an entire way of life and thought, remain.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Nov 2014 19:58

vishvak wrote:A few thousand paki and Egyptian soldiers (35,000 or so) are hired guns of KSA types on border, or for suppressing minority protests - which seems to never come out. Wonder why we don't see pictures of paki soldiers crushing protests by minorities in our media.

That is because Paki media are less free than they claim and our media are more free than India is given credit for. They are free to pretend to be humane and our media are free to toe the Paki line.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 09 Nov 2014 20:08

Plot to kill the Queen at Remembrance Day ceremony

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Nov 2014 20:18

A_Gupta wrote:The saving grace may be that secularism of the state, despite being under threat from the now electorally popular and now rejected Hindutva, has managed to survive, but it has extracted a heavy toll all the same: no Iqbal . . .

I have not read the article, but what a lie in the first place !

Allama Iqbal was troubled by Western colonialism and felt that jihad was a legitimate Islamist tool to get rid of that. He echoed Waliullah’s approach and rejected the inclusive politics of the Indian National Congress. He appreciated the efforts of Syed Ahmed of Rae Bareli, who fought the Sikhs to establish a Muslim nation in the North Western Frontier Province (NWFP) in the period between 1826-1831. Allama Iqbal sowed the seeds of exclusivist ‘Muslim identity’ amongst the Indian Muslims, an approach that has ever since troubled the Pakistanis. He held in high esteem the illiterate 19-year old Ilm-ul-Din who killed a Hindu publisher, Raj Pal, in Lahore for publishing the book Rangeela Rasool. It is reported that Iqbal placed the body in the grave with tears in his eyes and said: “This young man left us, the educated men, behind.”

Allama Iqbal subscribed to a worldwide view of Islam. The national poet of later day Pakistan, Allama Iqbal, was declared a kafir by the clergy. But, that is a different matter because that is a fate that befalls all Islamists at some point of time as a much greener variety sprouts forth condemning everything before that as the Kharrajis prove eternally.

He termed democracy and elections as ‘sweet tasting Western soporofics’. He opined that since Islam was going through a period of great strain, accepting taqlid was better than laudable ijtihad. The first time that separate states for Hindu-populated and Muslim-populated areas was expounded in the 1930 Muslim League conference at Allahabad by him.

For those who want to know about Sheikh Waliullah Dehelvi, who influenced Allama Iqbal, let me recall the following: Waliullah's aim was to rid the low-church ajlaf Indian Muslims of their Hindu practices. He helped the Afghan king Ahmed Shah Abdali to overcome the Mahrattas in the Panipat war in 1761 He was educated in Makkah and Madinah and a contemporary of Ibn Abd-al Wahhab.; his argument was that the decline of Islam could be arrested only by making it more rigorous. He had a close relationship with ibn Abd Al Wahhab. Both were born in the same year and Waliullah spent considerable time in the company of Wahhab in Saudi Arabia. He wanted an intensification of Aurangzeb’s efforts. His thoughts led to the formation of the Berelvi sect later on. Shah Waliullah’s contribution was the linkage he formed between Deobandi Islam and the Hanbali Islam of Saudi Arabia during his sojourn in Hijaz. Ahmed Berelvi was a disciple Waliullah’s son. Deoband, of UP, largely teaches Islam based on the interpretation of Waliullah. Shah Waliullah was attracted to Ibn Taimiyya whose teachings were also to inspire Abdul Wahab, the spiritual guide of the House of Saud. This 'confluence' gave rise to a new strict fundamentalism in India. Waliullah founded his Madrassah-e-Rahimyya where he strove for the removal of bida’a (innovation and ecclecticissm of other religions) The followers of Sheikh Waliullah are known as Dehelvi Ulema. From his thoughts emerged four different schools of thought in India, Deobandis, Ahl-e-Hadiths, Tableeghis and the Berelvis.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 09 Nov 2014 20:29

johneeG wrote:Saars,
is it possible that the four fathers of the bakis are abandoning them and trying to raise the Eye Yes Eye Yell as the new off-spring?

I doubt it. If anything, my sense is that there is huge resentment against Modiji-led BJP govt for even being defensive. Latest issue of Economist rag blames ModiJi in part for Badmassh's travails. India's hot response to TSP provocations along the LoC and cancellation of talks with TSP are seen as "rabble rousing Hindu nationalism". How dare India defend itself against their munna's terrorist provocations. How dare India not consider separatist scum as they scum they are. My reading is that whatever gripes the daddys have with TSP, they sure have contempt for India's legitimate concerns regarding TSP.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 09 Nov 2014 20:48

The "pax-arabia" was the most useful tool for many including the four fathers. Allam Iqbal and other closet and open jihadis are very interested in pushing "pax-arabia" to rest of the duniya. While this push for "pax-arabia" is facing a little bit more resistance than usual, it doesn't mean there is end for the love of "pax-arabia" concept. There are many within and outside, along with opportunists who are and will not be quiet on moral, ethical or whatever reasons and push "pax-arabia" on Indian sub-continent. This jihadi push will be relentless, unless it is rolled back not just resisted.

Just because India feels, giving a little strong reactionary response will suffice, does not mean others are going to keep quiet. All "pax-arabia", and its supporters will not sleep or withdraw their efforts until and unless it is completely defeated. There should be no confusion as to what needs to be done without getting sentimental about one missing "abul kalam azad" or such. As long as one is clear, that when there is no possibility of having a single "Aurangzeb", it is worth loosing thousand "abul kalam azads".

Pax-arabia needs to be rooted out. That's it, it may extol a heavy price, but the alternative is to become one more pax-paki like nation.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 09 Nov 2014 20:50

IMF-Pakistan:
http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pr/2014/pr14505.htm

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 09 Nov 2014 20:53

1-bal had a strong inferiority complex vis a vis Rabindranath Tagore.

So much so that when Tagore got an invitation to visit Iran, Iqbal was very upset and thought he should have been invited in Tagore's place.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 09 Nov 2014 20:57

http://tribune.com.pk/story/787856/selfie-with-a-gun/

These rulers have cloaked themselves in democratic legitimacy, but the ruin they are bringing upon this bruised and battered nation is unimaginable. People say give democracy a chance and let the system evolve. Sure, tell that to the parents who buried their little babies. Tell them it’s okay because their kids died for the glory of democracy; that the little ones suffered pain and death on those filthy beds in rat-infested hospitals so that the PPP and the PML-N could enjoy the fruits of democracy in their luxury four-wheelers and palatial offices.....

.....Do you see any sign, any movement, any gesture that would suggest that these governments and those who run them have any concern for the little babies who are dying because they are not being given the treatment they require?

If the answer is a no — which it most certainly is — then know this: we are being forced to take a selfie with a gun. And this kind of selfie does not end well.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 09 Nov 2014 21:07

He helped the Afghan king Ahmed Shah Abdali to overcome the Mahrattas in the Panipat war in 1761

of that guy. The shameless historians have omitted all the details, just like investigative journalism has not touched it. Why should we entertain any and all byproducts of such a lover of barbaric invaders.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 09 Nov 2014 22:59

So the old ISI head chap, Zaheerul Islam didnt even wait a day to join Bol network as its Vice president.

Fellows, this Bol network has to be watched. It is funded by Dawood and ISI and is probably going to make money from pirated bollywood movies. The Paki army has also realized that they are losing control over the media (rounding up and suiciding journalists goes only so far) and they need their own voice.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 Nov 2014 03:45

The Non-State State of India, AKA Pakistan's news anchors are keeping a very keen eye on Shri Modi's visits and itineraries.

I say, that the educated mango Paki is all culturally enslaved by us. In due course, we can ideologically enslave them too

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 10 Nov 2014 04:00

That's why perhaps India proceeds with some circumspection, which is oft interpreted as meekness. I believe the majority of Pakistanis would prefer to call themselves Indians, hence the inveterate campaigns to instill hate and an Islamic identity by the elites of Pakistan via school text books through terrorism and to wars. These elites do not seek to damage India through terrorism or war (they could not care less), they seek to consolidate teetering, wavering nationhood. Without which there is no mulk to milk.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 10 Nov 2014 05:42

A Shia scholar explains the theological basis of ISIS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xArTRV2INSY

Long, but interesting. The comments on the video are also interesting.

Meanwhile

http://www.dawn.com/news/1143355/isi-an ... ging-imran

ISI and MI should sit on commission to investigate vote rigging: Imran

Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) Chairman Imran Khan on Sunday said that members of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and Military Intelligence (MI) should should sit on a commission headed by the Supreme Court to investigate rigging in the 2013 General Elections, Dawnnews reported.

The PTI chairman also said in his speech that if he becomes prime minister all loans from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) would stop.

“People from other countries will come to Pakistan seeking work…If corruption is curbed then the cost of electricity would be halved,” he said

member_27991 · Post by **member_27991** » 10 Nov 2014 07:15

Anujan wrote:A Shia scholar explains the theological basis of ISIS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xArTRV2INSY

Long, but interesting. The comments on the video are also interesting.

I am at work and just clicked on this link, not knowing what the video would be about. It started loudly with Bismillah... My head phone wasn't connected and the sound of the first sentence just echoed from my laptop speakers across the office. The whole bunch of Aussies, Cheenees and goras looked at me quizzically while i was frantically trying to silence the speakers. To add to the effect I am growing a 'Mo' Merve hughes style due to Movember here.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 10 Nov 2014 12:47

The fall of Robin Raphel

Penned by Smitha Prakesh of ANI fame.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 10 Nov 2014 13:11

X-post from Internal Security Watch thread as it applies to Pakistan and all islamic countries equally.

SSridhar:
This should not be a suprise but only a logical result of back to the book fundamentalist attitude preached by the likes of Tawheed Jamath in TN (and their counterparts in every state of India, some of whom in Kerala and WB and UP are even more fundamentalistic). I have noticed that several muslims now do not return a secular Vanakkam (or Namaskar) anymore with folded hands as they used to even a decade earlier. They acknowledge it with some other expression and a smile or nod of head!

Like Sri Aurobindo observed several decades ago, the only lasting solution to this need to come from within Islam like the Bahai movement in Iran, but more successful than that, because Islam as a religion is not open to outside ideas.

In addition to keeping a close tab on fundamentalists and restricting fundamentalist preachings, we can do our best to encourage a culture of debate and rationalism amongst Muslims so that they too have their "enlightenment" and reformist movement that the other religions have had. Hindus benefited a lot from Swami Vivekananda, Sri Aurobindi, Dayananda Saraswathi in abolishing superstitions and reforming practical hinduism. The current pope for example ceded defeat to the scientific community in matter of big bang theory and evolution.

With widespread prevalence of media and tendency of all Indians to watch TV everyday, there is some opportunity for us to trigger a debate amongst progressive followers of islam vs fundamentalists. There are lot of Muslims who dislike these fundamentalists but are forced to follow them in wearing burqah or saying MashaAlla instead of Hello on the phone. Our media houses should be encouraged to conduct reality shows and debates between progressive muslims and fundamentalists on things like wearing burqa or saying Bharat Mata ki Jai or singing Vande Mataram. There can be debate regarding what science says in terms of evolution, big bang theory and what Islam says.

Personally I feel that acceptance of evolution (which is natural for Hinduism which always talked of evolution of conscious experience of soul and has a sequence of Aavatars that co-relate to evolution of life with remarkable consistency and accuracy) is most difficult for Islam. Islam is built on infallibility of every word in Quran and Hadiths even the most material ones for eternity! This is fundamentally against evolution. If humans are to evolve it is rational that our social systems, etc., will also need to evolve. Hinduism does not have a problem here because it makes a distinction between Absolute Truths that are eternal and relative time bound truths and social customs which are expected to be revived or reformed every so often (thats why not all of Manu Smriti is not applicable today). Islam does not have such a notion.

Islam needs to evolve - or it will wage a war against rest of the world which is constantly evolving. Government should encourage options for open debate and rational discussion amongst followers of islam to help evolve that religion to 21st century. Once islamic scholars accept evolution as a mechanism of Allah, they will have to concede the fact that they cannot have a legal framework (shariah) or moral framework that does not evolve with time. Ex: In the world of video and audio and forensic science with DNA evidence, several parts of Shariah become irrelevant.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 10 Nov 2014 17:28

Hashmi Shams Tabreed ‏@hstabreed 4h4 hours ago
Pakistani Urdu media is rife with conspiracy theory that fall of Pakistan 's best friend Robin Raphel was somehow precipitated by Ajit Doval

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 10 Nov 2014 18:26

That rumor probably is accurate, given Doval's first hand experience in dealing with artificial life support to the Pawkis and rewards it reaped for its perfidy. Also Doval had an extended in the US after NaMo's official state visit.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 10 Nov 2014 18:53

Anujan wrote:A Shia scholar explains the theological basis of ISIS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xArTRV2INSY

Long, but interesting. The comments on the video are also interesting.

Must watch. For those unfamiliar with Shiism, see it till the end, the last bit is especially interesting with a light effect, and observe how he gets the people to start weeping.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 10 Nov 2014 19:17

JE Menon wrote:
Anujan wrote:A Shia scholar explains the theological basis of ISIS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xArTRV2INSY

Long, but interesting. The comments on the video are also interesting.

Must watch. For those unfamiliar with Shiism, see it till the end, the last bit is especially interesting with a light effect, and observe how he gets the people to start weeping.

"Saala Nautanki, garhi garhi Drame karta hai"

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 10 Nov 2014 19:37

While I am glad Robin has been busted, but in reporting that on DDM, I see a lot of equal equal. For e.g., Rediff had some interview in which Aziz Hanifa lobs a few soft balls, and she replies with I like India, I like TSP. So insread of focising on her crimes, and her policies, its whether or not she like India, and why she likes TSP more. While her fall is great, she is only one cog in the wheel, I mean there are many more in DC, state dept, think tanks etc, whose policies are no different. And I don't see too much of a change forthcoming even after her fall.

One thing with India US or US TSP relations to keep in mind. India certainly does not, and neither does TSP except for TSPA/ISI serving as well-paid US clients; figure large in the US foreign policy playing field. Thus, what you have are a few pipsqueaks like Robin Raphel who under the weight of US superpowerdom, man the "South Asia" desk. And when they show that domineering arrogance, more so in the case of women diplomats like Robin, over SDREs, and SDREs, especially the proud & nationalist ones refuse to pamper these busy bodies, bad blood sets in.

TSP pakijabis on the other hand will do all they need to, to win over them. And as Fair didi herself revealed, some are even enamoured by pakijabi TFTA traits.

Thus, US relations with India & TSP boil down to how much whoever is manning the "South Asia" desk likes or dislikes India or TSP respectively based on how much groveling and massaging they received.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 10 Nov 2014 19:58

Never-before-heard tapes of Reagan revealed
By Gary BuisoNovember 8, 2014 | 4:00pm

President Ronald Reagan secretly recorded some of his conversations with foreign leaders, discovered author William Doyle, who shared some of these never-heard tapes exclusively with The Post.
“Until now, taping was thought to have stopped in the Nixon era. I discovered that was not the case,” Doyle said.
The recordings from the White House Situation Room include Reagan trying to convince an intractable Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin to hold off the pullout of Israeli troops from Lebanon in 1983 until Lebanese forces can replace them; the president discussing the release of Western hostages in the Middle East with Pakistani President Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq, and a talk with Syrian President Hafez al-Assad, the father of Syria’s current dictator and the original “Butcher of Damascus”— whom he kept waiting for over 13 minutes while he finished up a horseback ride at his California ranch.

[..]
https://soundcloud.com/newyorkpost/6-1985rr

This call in June 1985 is about TWA Flight 847, which was hijacked by Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad. “Reagan had two cards to play to try to free the hostages: the military card, as Navy SEALs and other US special forces prepared several times to rescue hostages in Lebanon but could never get good enough intelligence to confirm their exact whereabouts,” Doyle says. “And he had the diplomatic card, which he is trying to play here with Pakistan, which had influence in Lebanon with the Shia.”

Reagan: Hello
Zia-ul-Haq: Good afternoon Mr President.
Reagan: Mr. President good to hear from you.
Zia-ul-Haq: Thank you Sir. Err I am I am Zia Ul Haq from Pakistan. I am sorry to have bothered your in the afternoon of Saturday while you may have been having little free time.
Reagan: Well, we just came back from the ceremony of receiving the bodies of our four marines. And we are here at camp david now, so this is just fine.
Zia-ul-Haq: Yes sir I heard about that, I just thought sir that I will convey my own feelings and feelings of people of pakistan regarding this undue delay in release of american hostages in Beirut. We are very much concerned, we may not have been so vocal about this but I assure you we are all trying along with many others and also praying for the early release of the innocent Americans being kept hostage.
Reagan: Well thank you very much, that is very kind and I join you in those prayers and we have been praying considerably also and we are doing everything we can and hope that minister berry will see his way clear now to, that he takes them from the hijackers to deliver them to us.
Zia-ul-Haq: Yes sir we hope everything will turn out to be alright although this is a great embarrassment and it is a matter of great concern for all of us
Reagan: Yes
Zia-ul-Haq: || We have released a statement this afternoon in the press and also the media about conveying the concern of the people of Pakistan government . . . in this undue delay, and we have demanded immediate release of the hostages, and also we have at the same time conveyed that we hope that those Lebanese Shiites would be released by the government of Israel.
Reagan: Yes. Well, we must do that in a way that does not make the hijackers think that they have won their goal, because I think we would just see more hijackings then and more terrorism. But we believe that if they will return ours, and then I think the Israelis are prepared to also to deliver theirs. But not make it a kind of ransom at the moment.
Zia-ul-Haq: No, I entirely agree with you, Mr. President. And I must say that many of us here in Pakistan and also elsewhere in the world really appreciate the stand that you have taken. We admire you, Mr. President, and we salute you. And we hope that you will win because right must win.
Reagan: Well, thank you very much. I thank you.
Zia-ul-Haq: Sir. my wife conveys her best regards to Mrs. Reagan because she enjoyed her hospitality a couple of months back when she was in United States in connection with this narcotics problem.
Reagan: Well... well.
Zia-ul-Haq: She conveys her very best wishes to Mrs. Reagan
Reagan: Well... you can tell her. I know they have returned. Mrs. Reagan Reagan doesn't know that I have just received this call but I shall tell her and believe me she thinks most highly of your wife and the success of that meeting here.
Zia-ul-Haq: Thank you Sir. Thank you Mr. President nice talking to you sir I am so sorry to bother you.
Reagan: No. Not bothered at all, I am most grateful not only for your call but for statements you have made regarding hostage situation. So my very best to your wife. Goodbye.
[..]

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Nov 2014 20:52

https://alaiwah.wordpress.com/tag/blackwater/

truth is stranger than faction. fun filled tales of blackwater ops in TSP.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 10 Nov 2014 21:39

Wow, Anmol.. good find. Zia-ul-Haq just about prostrated to Reagan over the phone, if at all such a thing could be done. ("We admire you Mr. President, and we salute you, etc."). Pakis do know how to pander to the bloated ego of Khan politicians. Look at Zia's nervousness in talking to Reagan - after Reagan addresses him as Mr. President he starts with I am Mr. So and So (clearly prepped introduction)!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Nov 2014 22:16

Now fast forward to that ill fated plane ride that Zia took.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 10 Nov 2014 22:20

RajeshA wrote:
JE Menon wrote:
Must watch. For those unfamiliar with Shiism, see it till the end, the last bit is especially interesting with a light effect, and observe how he gets the people to start weeping.

"Saala Nautanki, garhi garhi Drame karta hai"

It is not nautanki. Lamentation and grief for the unjust killing of their religious leaders is central to Shia faith. If there is one word which captures their sect, it is grief.