Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec 2014

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Dec 2014 17:04

Pardon me folks if I sound insensitive.

You see, I could cynically ask if 20 deaths or 40 deaths in a terrorist attack is not so bad, but it requires 140 plus deaths for the Pakistani government to appear in the media and look sad.

How many times have we spoken on here about "runs" being scored in whcih 40 or 80 Pakistanis, often shias in a mosques have died? I did not see one sad face on Pakistan TV. It was business as usual. What was it about yesterdays attack that makes it sadder that all others? Was it the children? I mean what about all those woman and children who have died in bomb attacks on mosques? Not sad enough?

It is easy for us Indians to bash each other up about not showing enough sympathy for the dead and injured, but it is so easy to forget that Pakistan as a nation has not appeared particularly sad about horrendous casualties after horrendous attacks IN Pakistan. So what gives? What has changed?

I predict that in a week all will be back to normal. I mean if Operation Zub-e-Dub didn't work in the last 5 months what are they going to do now? Pakistan is beyond hope.

The politicans are too scared to oppose the military and jihadis
The military cannot control the jihadi that attack them but support jihadis that attack India
People are too scared to oppose the military and the jihadis
The jihadis are well stocked with bombs, guns and supplies

This means trouble. It means trouble for us too, to an extent, and we have to be eternally vigilant.

Once again I draw from Naipaul's interviews in Iran after the Iran Iraq war. When there is too too much bloodshed, the people become weary and sad. But in Islamic nations this can go on for decades. India simply needs to build its economy around the security requirements of keeping Pakis at bay, and I think we need to invest in the intellectual capital in universities to analyse why Pakis are like this.

The naive "Let us be friends" etc are a useless, sentimental pastime.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 17 Dec 2014 17:07

Good Sharif pulled a fast one on Dimran Khan by calling an all party conference before "taking on" bad Taliban. Not sure if JI is on board with this. Will be good to watch PTI and JI go after each other.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Dec 2014 17:26

Rajagopal wrote:A emotional appeal by a Pakistan lady.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=417759895048885

could anyone give a gist of her appeal? Most of the urdu words went over my head.

Bit too long - but it moved me. It is basically an emotional - well - a rant, that curses Paki media, government and mullahs interspersed with sad illustrations of how the mother of a dead child will feel each day when she sees things that belonged to her child. She says that the media are sanitizing the images so that the required amount of horror and anger are not being generated in Shitistan

All true, but for a heartless male dominated society a woman's tears mean nothing. Of the thousands of bereaved and sad women this one has a laptop and a Facebook account.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 17 Dec 2014 17:28

I see marshallah by friday.......any taker? Army chief may be in China and not in Afganistan. JMT

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 17 Dec 2014 17:38

Is the position of Army under some threat by the civvies? So I doubt there would be any Marshallah.
BTW, the Army school would have some kind of military presence, especially in a colonial occupation area like Peshawar. What happened to them? No news of if and how they were dispatched.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Dec 2014 17:51

Mashallah happens when people rise up and show anger against politicians and are willing to put up with army. That ain't happening now.

i would judge that after Lal Masjid and after Abbotabad/Osammy the army has lost its sheen. I just wonder about the date, December 16th.

I am not sure that the date is a coincidence. Dec 16th (the anniversary of the Paki surrender to Indian forces) is well known as a date when the Paki army simply lied and tried to cover itself with glory when it was defeated. The date has been used time and again to re-iterate how the Paki fauj will take on India at some unspecified future time. Instead of that all they have done is take on Pakistanis. So it is quite possible that a cynical Taliban leader deliberately timed it for that date. Dec 16th will only be a date of ignominy for the Paki army. In 1971 it was defeat. in 2014 it was an act of defiance against the army.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 17 Dec 2014 18:06

Army has best CHANCE to take power. It has public sympathy and public is tired of daily rallies,demonstrations and insecurity. Army has to take power in hand in order to improve law and order..............this is how mango bakistani logic goes.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 17 Dec 2014 18:10

saravana wrote:Is the position of Army under some threat by the civvies? So I doubt there would be any Marshallah.
BTW, the Army school would have some kind of military presence, especially in a colonial occupation area like Peshawar. What happened to them? No news of if and how they were dispatched.

Bakistani army was never under threat from elected govt,still most of the time army was in power. Instead it is the elected govt which is under threat from army.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 17 Dec 2014 18:43

^^ It was poor wording from my part. What I meant was the civvies getting too uppity for their shoes.
My guess is if Marshallah has to be happen, the civvies would be made to do a Wazirstan Accord Part Deux and uniformed jihadies would then take over.

Rajagopal · Post by **Rajagopal** » 17 Dec 2014 18:47

shiv wrote:
Rajagopal wrote:A emotional appeal by a Pakistan lady.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=417759895048885

could anyone give a gist of her appeal? Most of the urdu words went over my head.
Bit too long - but it moved me. It is basically an emotional - well - a rant, that curses Paki media, government and mullahs interspersed with sad illustrations of how the mother of a dead child will feel each day when she sees things that belonged to her child. She says that the media are sanitizing the images so that the required amount of horror and anger are not being generated in Shitistan

All true, but for a heartless male dominated society a woman's tears mean nothing. Of the thousands of bereaved and sad women this one has a laptop and a Facebook account.

Thank you, Shiv. It saddens me even more that the lady could not bring herself to pinpoint the root of the problem. Everyone in Pakistan knows what it is, but scared to make that one single move.
The only thing that can rescue Pakistanis from more madness and depravity is rehab treatments such as "Ghar vapasi".

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 17 Dec 2014 18:56

Actually people are also tired of marshallahs. The previous marshallahs have not really improved their lot.
The army is smart. They take over only when conditions are favourable. The situation is anything but favourable at present.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 17 Dec 2014 18:57

I think what Americans say about Pakistan need not pollute the India-US thread, so am posting here.
A pair of tweets, mainly for entertainment value:

Christine Fair @CChristineFair · 4 hours ago
Bergen has to climb off the Fauj's land. Seriously. What nonsense. Pakistan's 9/11 http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/16/opinion/b ... index.html

Christine Fair @CChristineFair · 4 hours ago
Bergen *constantly* pimps the Fauj's line. He CANNOT be taken as a serious analyst of anything but the Fauj's jhants. http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/16/opinion/b ... index.html

and, another pair:

Christine Fair @CChristineFair · 4 hours ago
@punjabkhwa You know...This is a terrific example of Pakistani Cerebro-Anal inversion. You CAN see a surgeon about this problem.

Christine Fair @CChristineFair · 4 hours ago
@punjabkhwa What you need to understand ASAP is that there would be NO TTP w/o Jaish, ASWJ, Afghan Taliban etc. This is called BLOW BACK.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 17 Dec 2014 19:13

this seems to a handy work of paki army them self , looking at how these pigs are responding. They are getting very desperate

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 17 Dec 2014 19:15

http://pakistannewsurdu.com/watch-nawaz ... -briefing/

Wow.. nawaj Sharif and Imran Khan joking and laughing in the press conference regarding yesterday's attack.

Are they happy that army has been screwed? I see a sense of glee in their eyes that taliban finally showed army their place. Internal kabila fights - political fraction of kabila happy that army faction humiliated.

any comments, gurus?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Dec 2014 19:30

Terrorists using Afghan soil against us: Pakistan army chief

Pakistani Army Chief General Raheel Sharif Wednesday said terrorists were using Afghan soil to carry out attacks in Pakistan, media reported.

General Sharif, who went to Kabul Wednesday after Tuesday’s horrific terrorist attack on an army-run school in the northwestern Pakistani city of Peshawar that claimed 148 lives, told the Afghan civil and military leadership that terrorists were using Afghan soil to carry out attacks in neighbouring Pakistan.

The army chief shared classified intelligence details with the Afghan officials. He also briefed the Afghan leadership that the mastermind behind the Peshawar attack had been giving directives to the perpetrators of the attack from Afghanistan.

The army chief also reiterated Pakistan’s demand to Kabul to hand over Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) Chief Mullah Fazlullah.

Haven't we heard similar things for seven decades now?

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 17 Dec 2014 19:33

I hope the Afghans pull a paki on pakis and tell them the attack was carried out by "non-state actors".

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Dec 2014 19:39

krishnan wrote:this seems to a handy work of paki army them self , looking at how these pigs are responding. They are getting very desperate

The terrorists who attacked India a few weeks ago were commando trained, as were the Mumbai attackers. So were the Peshawar attacker. Military training has to come from somewhere. It suits Pakis to say "the injuns did it", But its the availability of guns and explosives and the internal security that keeps a tab on movement that helps. In Pakistan automatic weapons and explosives are freely available. Even 7-8 years ago we had YouTube videos of Darra Adam Khel weapons workshops. The Indian army has captured some 30,000 automatic weapons from Pakis - so the supply is endless

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 17 Dec 2014 19:40

Regarding the video posted by Atri ji: it is very clear that these kids and other kids all over the world (and more importantly for us Indians - indian kids and adults alike) are just pawns in stupid elite Pakistani politico-military games. The day is not too far when they will start biting the hands of 4 fathers.

Rajagopal · Post by **Rajagopal** » 17 Dec 2014 19:44

The faces of the killers before going on their evil mission.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... alala.html

I shudder to think what would happen if this bunch enters India. The world needs to build a wall around Pakistan and contain them inside.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Dec 2014 19:56

swaach Bharat doesn't cover this garbage??

Drive these $#%&^ out

Kiren Rijiju: More than 5,200 Pakistanis overstaying in India

New Delhi, Dec 17

Over 5,200 Pakistani nationals are overstaying in India, the government today said.

“A number of Pakistani nationals who came on valid travel documents, have been found to be overstaying. As per information available, as on June, 2014, 5,264 Pakistani nationals who came to India with valid travel documents were found to be overstaying,” Minister of State for Home Kiren Rijiju told Rajya Sabha in a written reply.

Detection and deportation of such illegal immigrants is a continuous process, he added.

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 17 Dec 2014 19:57

Chill folks, they've found out the reason it happened - A lesson in fighting terror by Musharraf

And they also know who did it

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 17 Dec 2014 20:02

WTF .. this blame India game is played to hide internal war mongering and outright genocides by paki armies in the past and even ongoing.
link from twitter .com NSFW

TheBaloch ‏@BalaachMarri Dec 16
The Baloch feel the pain - Pakistani Army does it routinely. #Balochistan pic.twitter.com/GTYVwnX3A8

Kohi_Balochuk
‏@BalochukKohi
@BalaachMarri Terrorist army did it 71 in bengladesh now in balochistan. Same army same country same nation, same media, same society,

Are not the kids killed in Balochistan our kids too?
Are not kids killed in genocide of Hindus in Bangladesh our kids too?

More tidbit Dawood Ibrahim only Class 9 survivor in Peshawar school attack

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 17 Dec 2014 20:02

The bigger question is why those, I believe the Home Ministry, that is in charge of handing out visas handing them out in the first place, if they know damn well that the pakis are going to be overstaying. Why give them visas and then try to find them and throw them out? Isn't that rather stupid?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 17 Dec 2014 20:05

NDTV ‏@ndtv 2h2 hours ago

Hafiz Saeed on TV threatens terror attacks against India http://goo.gl/suQTFW

On national television today in Pakistan, Hafiz Saeed, one of the world's most-wanted men, blamed India for the massacre of children at a Pakistan school and vowed revenge. Not a single politician in Pakistan condemned the remarks of the man behind the terror attacks in Mumbai in 2008, in which 166 people were killed.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Dec 2014 20:06

Rajagopal wrote:The faces of the killers before going on their evil mission.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... alala.html

I shudder to think what would happen if this bunch enters India. The world needs to build a wall around Pakistan and contain them inside.

My cynical reply is: They will be stopped at the border by the army who will lose a few brave men, and we will comment on here that the army had let its guard down - why couldn't they have shot them before getting shot.

Our internal and border security do a great job - but yet some get through. Ideally we need to stop those as well. I think we are learning

See this:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 461071.cms

21,562 terrorists were killed in Jammu & Kashmir during insurgency since 1990, Rajya Sabha was informed on Wednesday.

109 terrorists have been killed this year

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 17 Dec 2014 20:13

the pakis are blaming the Indian NSA and other Indians because they expect to conduct a terror attack on India, knowing fully well that claims of pakistan's involvement will be seen by disinterested parties as just an "India-Pakistan" thing. Looking at the worthless "we are with you in fighting terror, pakistan" response of the Indian public to the terror attack, I can't say I am particularly surprised that the pakis think/know this kind of apriori finger pointing actually works against India when pakis commit terror in India.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 17 Dec 2014 20:20

The feeling of guilt is socialized by bleeding hearts but that should not be a problem to remember what pakis did in Bangladesh and now in Baloshistan, Pashtunistan.

We know the pain.

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 17 Dec 2014 20:22

Chandragupta wrote:I see plenty of bleeding heart Hindus on FB on sickular pages like Logical Indian & the likes spewing nonsense like 'No religion teaches this', 'Terrorism has no religion'. Are these idiots braindead? a. They are Hindus, not Muslims so what clue do they have on what Islam teaches? b. when terrorists themselves claim to be killing for Islam & Allah, who the F are these non-Muslims to claim that they have no religion?

For such Hindus, here is a recent ISIS pamphlet that defines rules for enslavement & rape of captured women & children.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/12/world ... le-slaves/

Do have a look at the Indian Army Fans page. Very interesting, I say.
Till yesterday as it posted similar comments as on this forum and even on Vijay Diwas, some were crying out for it to be more 'compassionate'. But today the guy has mostly posted Paki commentators on Twitter & FB & the junta is talking in a much different mood!

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Dec 2014 20:26

There is going to be a terror act against India. The terrorists would find a way, sooner or later, even if one group is caught, the next would slip through.

This is the only way Pakistan knows how to cleanse its humiliation of being attacked by their own snakes.

PM Modi has tweeted his condolences, he has spoken to Nawaz Sharif, Ajit Doval went to their High Commission to note his condolences. There was two minute silence for the death of Pakistani kids. And Indian presstitutes did their bit with #IndiawithPakistan. This is all that India could have done! And India has done it.

But the terror attack from Pakistan would come nevertheless.

Our official and unofficial condolences are useful to make a case when we return the Pakistani hit with many times the interest.

The revenge for Uri attack is still open. Let the J&K elections come to an end and a new government be installed there. Any attack now would have compromised the smooth democratic process in J&K. But once it is over, I hope GoI does go out and give Pakistan a suitable response.

With an upcoming attack ostensibly as revenge for Peshawar Attack, it would become even more imperative for GoI to give Pak a fitting answer.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 17 Dec 2014 20:29

I don't why Pashtuns are beholden to the Pakjabis. They have the numbers and weapons to forge their own path but they get used as cannon fodder for furthering mainly pakjabi army's objectives.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Dec 2014 20:34

saravana wrote:I don't why Pashtuns are beholden to the Pakjabis. They have the numbers and weapons to forge their own path but they get used as cannon fodder for furthering mainly pakjabi army's objectives.

Money, money, money ...

&

Bigger Guns

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 17 Dec 2014 20:52

In less than a few months all in Pakistan will believe that the school attack was carried out by CIA-RAW-MOSSAD depending upon the flavor of the season. Doval will be chief villain. Children in Pakistan will grow up believing that Indians killed Paki kids.

dsreedhar · Post by **dsreedhar** » 17 Dec 2014 21:17

The peshawar incident is a big tragedy. But so are many other incidents killing innocents anywhere.
The PM of Pakistan says will not distinguish between good and bad taliban. Good to hear. Lets see how sincere and resolute are they in their efforts.
Pak army chief seeks Mullah Fazlullah. The buck doesnot stop with the mullah. It has to go deep into pak establishment and the masterminds who created, nurtured and support these groups to incite violence.
The iron is hot. Pak populace want the terrorists out in any form. Killing a few foot soldiers is not the answer. Time for the pak establishment and their terror policies to be exposed. Nowhere in the media do the pakistan people daring the truth about all pakistani institutions support for these terror infrastructures. Some even blame raw, india and external agencies for this attack. Same old story.

What i would like to see is TTP share and publish its side of the story and truth in all media. How the paki institutions and establishment played with their life. How they were denied their life as kids living in innocence and playful. How their minds were brainwashed with hatred and shoved with guns and bombs to kill others and self. And now how they are being hunted down and their own families and innocent kids being bombed. All their crime was to be born poor and unfortunate. There should be blood written all over the pak army and its sinister agencies. This needs to be given wide coverage.

All the wailing mothers and pak population need to see this and understand killing those poor foot soldiers is not the answer and make right choices now to clean up the mess.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 17 Dec 2014 21:19

I feel like adding my 2 naya paisa to the peshawar attack and sympathy topoic.

An innocent life lost is an innocent life lost. It does not matter is the guy was a 80 year old man or 4 year old child. Whether it was a man or a woman, beautiful or ugly, rich or poor, urban or rural, died in 5 star or on railway platform. Looks like all the rona dhona is because they were school going children all under 18 year old.

I mean we have seen many of these teenagers on youtube and on zaid hamid videos and have heard their venom. David Headley and Tahwur Rana were the product of similar military school / military family just from different location (attock instead of Peshawar but not too far away) so how innocent they were from the ideology that pakistani state has for infidels is anyones guess. Well they might be innocent by definition that they did not commit any violence but neither did anyone who died in TelAviv, NYC, Sydney, London, Mumbai, Delhi, Varanasi, Pune....... and so many other places in the world.

In a way it was poetic juistice against families of Military & ISI types TFTA who have been working day and night for decades to orphan families in India. As some one posted remember 2 young daughters just lost a father last week in Ranchi. Any one needs our sympathy it is that family right now.

They will get my sympathy when I see credible action against LET, Jaish, HM and all rainbow of orgs. Not just that but in protecting poor hindus in Thar from kidnapping forceful conversions. Only them I will sympathise with them else what they got is just pure collateral damage for their own actions

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 17 Dec 2014 21:25

Time for the pak establishment and their terror policies to be exposed.

Everyone inside and outside pakistan is very well aware of all this -- as Shiv's earlier post on the paki state's own decrepit condition expains. The paki establishment/military's inability for anyone in or outside the establishment to take on the terror groups. The civilians don't want to challenge the military or the terror groups. And the terror groups are better armed and better trained than the military.

Nawaz sharif's and the army's plan to "utterly decimate the bad taliban" has my full support -- pakistan's internal turmoil will distract the pak army from directing its friendly terrorist groups like LeT and JuD. What Pakistan really needs is more blowback like yesterday's attack on Peshawar.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 17 Dec 2014 21:27

Nothing is going to happen. Pakistani Army will ignite things with India & then the Paki Press & Hapig Syeed will blame RAW-Doval-Modi for Peshawar. It is already happening. The TSPA will not step up things on the Af-Pak border. They can't shoot jihadists, all they can do is to kill some few hundred Pashtun women & children and then the Pashtuns will avenge them in another attack like this. I think there is only one way out for TSPA - a terrorist attack on India.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 17 Dec 2014 21:29

perfect headline
Pakistan’s Dance With Terrorists Just Backfired and Killed 132 Children

while the immediate reaction from the Pakistani military will no doubt be swift and terrible, Pakistan needs to think long and hard about what kind of country it wants to be when the initial retaliation is over.

Will it be one that continues to treat extremist groups as assets to use against its regional rivals? Or will this stomach-churning attack finally be the last straw that convinces the “establishment,” as it’s called, that playing with the fire of Islamic radicalism cannot continue.

As Saed Shah wrote in The Economist back in 2011, Pakistan feels it has no choice but to support jihadist groups. Archrival India has money to throw around, and Iran and Russia are also exerting influence in the region. So Pakistan, as a senior Pakistani official told Shah, is forced to play the latest version of the Great Game, too. “Except we have no money. All we have are the crazies. So the crazies it is.”

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 17 Dec 2014 21:30

I think there is only one way out for TSPA - a terrorist attack on India.

Even that is not really a way out, and will not unite pakistan like it did in the past. There is no way out for the pakis, which is quite fitting really. Couldn't have happened to a more hypocritical bunch of scumbags.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 17 Dec 2014 21:32

. “Except we have no money. All we have are the crazies. So the crazies it is.”

that's pretty freaking hilarious -- these paki cretins actually think they can play the so-called "great game" with a bunch of psychopathic jihadi numbnuts...OTOH, these delusions are being fed by their paymasters who wouldn't mind the pak crazies from p*ssing the pot and playing spoiler to all countries in the region.

Frederic · Post by **Frederic** » 17 Dec 2014 21:44

Tuvaluan wrote:Hussain Haqqani's new and improved persona from being a jihadi-pasand appointee is probably because he cannot go back to Pakistan any more as long as the army is in charge, so he seems to be keeping his options open and hoping the situation gets better for him to return. Clearly seems to have zero influence inside pakistan and is restricted to the lecture/think tank circuit outside pakistan, but he has nothing to lose in speaking against the army from the outside.

Seems to resemble the free-for-all at the end of "Asterix and the Goths" when every other guy on the street has a bit of the magic potion to be dangerous enough to stop anyone from being the center of attention for too long. Once the alliances shift against the TSPA, they are done for...but that will only happen after the TSPA and Pak govt continue with their zam zam for some more time and make a few more enemies that have blood feud. sending LeT terrorists against India is unlikely to unite Pakis as it did in the past if this continues...law of diminishing returns and all.

Tuvaluan,

I gave some thought to this impending Paki attack on Indian soil. Pakis being Pakis and all that, their first reaction would be to launch their "good taliban" against the Kufrs to the east.

But a couple of factors mitigate against this eventuality becoming true:

*TSPA knows that there is a new sheriff in town in Nayi Dilli. The ass whupping that the TSPA recvd from the BSF not so long ago might have put the fear of Allah into them, at least fro the foreseeable future.

*Modi / Doval duo would have transmitted several signals, both overt and through covert channels, that another Mumbaisque attack will be retaliated with blood vengeance. It is not Mumbling Singh at the centre anymore with his Teek Hais.

Given the above, if indeed TSPA unleashes the good Taliban on the Kufr children to the east, a retaliatory attack is almost certain. In that scenario, if the bad Taliban start squeezing the PakJabis from the west simultaneously, the TSPA cojones will be in a vice.