Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec 2014

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6803
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Anujan » 20 Dec 2014 22:35

Why outrage with Pakis when our own Chindu is writing this in its editorial?

India must put aside its shock and anger at the grant of bail to Lakhvi and stand by these voices solidly, for it is they that give hope of peace between the two countries and stability in the region.

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7048
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby disha » 20 Dec 2014 22:48

^^ Is Chindu saying that Lakhvi-Hafiz-Suar types will soon be in control of Pakistan and we have to make peace with them for "piss and stability" in the region?

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6803
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Anujan » 20 Dec 2014 23:07

^^
Chindu's Lahori Logic seems to be that if we dont let Pakistan carry out terror attacks inside India, we wont have peace with Pakistan.

member_22733
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3788
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby member_22733 » 20 Dec 2014 23:10

^^^ Can also be said that chindu is asking for Jizya tax payed to Bakistan. Payment terms are Indian lives, as long as they are not the "elite" lives.

Chindu and WKKs are nothing but Dhimmis.

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7294
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Peregrine » 20 Dec 2014 23:24

Ambar wrote:Had the peshawar incident occurred in some poor hazara neighborhood in Balochistan, no one would have batted their eyelids. Had this been some hapless ahmadis or shias blown to smithereens in their places of worship, there would be no greater reaction than the obligatory "Terrorists are evil and they will be defeated" statements from the talking heads of TSPA and their politicians. But this was different. This happened to the children of Pakistani elite in an army run institute. For the first time the chickens have gone to their masters den to roost. What baffles me is not the reaction in pakistan which is understandable for the above reasons, but the reaction in India. From the usual anti-national bigot Mahesh Butt to mostly sensible Anupam Kher ( married to BJP MP Kirron Kher) are tripping over one another to do rudali. Where were these people when Mumbai train blasts,zaveri bazar blasts,26/11 or countless other blasts in other Indian cities ? Isn't that terrorism ? Weren't children killed in those acts of violence too ? Where was their anguish and anger then ? The so called secular political parties,leftist NGOs and bollywood are the three pillars of anti-nationals in India. We will never be safe nor sane as long as these 3 exists in their current form.


Amber Ji :

You can always write to Shri Anupam Kher.

Cheers Image

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7294
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec 2014

Postby Peregrine » 21 Dec 2014 00:00

Recevied from "Across the Pond"

Act of War - Fakir S Ayazuddin

The Nation is appalled, by the murderous attack on the Army School, and the wanton killing of children. Other than the fury, the people are amazed that there is no response against the Madrassahs, or their patrons, the Saudis, who have not responded to this vile act. To see the COAS having a cup of tea with the Afghan President makes it even worse. This was an act of war. The Pakistani people would like to see retaliation, not on Wana or the Tribal Belt, but the Army should attack the real protectors of the TTP, Afghanistan itself. To have a cup of tea with President Ghani should have been preceded by massive bombing of the Presidential palace, and the U.S. personnel could have been asked to take cover.

This incident with the tapes of the attackers conversing with their handlers are evidence of the Afghan involvement.

Meanwhile within Pakistan, many including Burka Aziz, the Khatib of the Lal masjid of Islamabad(caught trying to escape in a Burka) has also refused to express his regrets at the School massacre. His Masjid should be dismantled, and he should be hanged at the Masjid Chowk. The citizens of Islamabad would be proud to erect a gallows, for the necessary punishment. The fury of the people should not be stifled, nor should their thirst for retaliation be stemmed. The people should be allowed to attack the Maddrassahs that harbour or condone such acts.

The Pakistan Army should clean the entire area of any remnants of Taliban pollution. And look within itself for some in-house cleansing if required. This attack has unified the country, and if there are any pockets of doubts, now is the time to eliminate them.

History is full of examples of traitors being rounded up and incarcerated, till the threat has been eliminated. In this case the enemies are still being vocal. It is difficult to understand someone like Maulana Burka refusing to acknowledge the evil, surely this would indicate he is not alone. It will also be quite to easy to establish his benefactors, and their true identity.

These are all the enemies of Pakistan, and should be dealt with, on a Summary basis, under a war tribunal. This act of war should empower the army to take action while the Government should suspend the Pakistan penal code.

These are war criminals, and should be treated as such. They showed no mercy, and they deserve none.

The Saudi government should be asked to explain their silence. Surely their Islamic values, will not stand the scrutiny of condoning such an act. The Pakistani government should insist on an explanation, or take steps to ensure that the Saudis understand our displeasure. It is time that the Pakistani Government should abandon its policy of kowtowing to the Arabs. They should understand, that we the people do not appreciate being demeaned in this fashion, and especially when such an act of war is overlooked. Nawaz Sharif may owe the Saudis, for his time in exile, but we the people demand an explanation.

It is time the people stood up, and time that our Government understand the resolve of the people. Perhaps we should storm the Parliament, and destroy the quislings that inhabit the once exalted buildings. It seems the National Assembly is filled with people who are financial criminals, and now cowards. And Anti Pakistan.

Imran has shown the way to Islamabad, and how to conduct a Dharna. It may be time now for people to launch their own Dharna for the time is now independent of Imran Khan. There is no need to politicise the attack on the Army school. It should be an outpouring of pure anger.

The west was quite correct in separating the state from religion. We are in a situation where criminals are taking refuge in religion, by claiming religious reasons. How can the murder of innocent 10 year old children be justified in the name of religion?

The Army must avenge this attack, and the Afghani government must pay a horrific price to atone for this action. It should also be made clear, that if they want to live in this neighbourhood, then they should be under no illusion of the rules.

Unless Mullah Fazlullah is not handed over in a week then an all out attack should be launched by our Army and Air Force on Kabul itself.
The terms for peace, can then be discussed over a cup of tea.

Meanwhile Madressahs will be run by Government appointed Mullahs, without beards.

In the meantime the border with Afghanistan should be sealed with no transit routes from India allowed.

Email: ayazfakir@gmail.com

Me Pooch : Should India take a cue:

Cheers Image

Satya_anveshi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3532
Joined: 08 Jan 2007 02:37

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Satya_anveshi » 21 Dec 2014 00:22

ayaz fukrudding has nice ring to it.

jrjrao
BRFite
Posts: 862
Joined: 01 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby jrjrao » 21 Dec 2014 02:08

Not sure if the usual and very wordy bakwas from this Track-2'er and a "retired air-vice marshal of the Pakistan Air Force and its deputy chief of staff" is worth much reading time.

But three take-aways from Shahzad Chaudhry this time:

1) Regarding Kashmir, Modi's India has a very firm middle finger up and in your face of Pakisatan. India is not going to talk about, much less take favourable action on, Kashmir. Going forward, over not too long a time, Pakistan will be dissolved away from this issue/dispute. And on this "dispute", from now on, India will dictate terms. And to Pakisatan, India's current dictation is to go grab its own dick and go fick itself.

2) (Unfortunately) This is now beginning to give some new spine to the usual "Aman-ka-Tamasha" crowd form India. In fact, horror of horrors:
...at a recent gathering of such serious-minded representatives from both sides, after having discussed a host of issues that belabour relations, the Indian members of the meet refused to agree to include any aspect of the discussion on Kashmir in the joint resolution. (They) ..even questioned the need to discuss Kashmir.


3) In view of such an awful setback on the kore kashmir issue, with the jaguar vein being swallowed up by the neighboring jaguar, the only hope for Pakisatan will be the Paki military which will need to launch a war:
The prognosis of a possible Pakistani response? If Pakistan’s political and diplomatic response is either wanting, or delayed, or non-existent, the inevitability of the dispute falling into the lap of the military to respond will be the only default eventuality. A military that may have waited earlier on the sidelines will be forced to react to an Indian ploy that may be far too advanced in implementation.

Under unfavourable circumstances the army may be forced to find recourse in traditional responses. Will that mean 1989 all over again; or another skirmish or war?

Kashmir: four possibilities - Part II

Sudip
BRFite
Posts: 378
Joined: 28 Oct 2008 05:42
Location: Paikhana

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Sudip » 21 Dec 2014 02:27


Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21044
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Prem » 21 Dec 2014 02:46

PakISIStanSirrKhaajAssitIs

MALSISLAMABAD- Advisor to Prime Minister on Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz today said that Pakistan would not blame RAW, India’s top external intelligence agency, for Peshawar school attack.Addressing a ceremony, Aziz urged the SAARC countries to agree upon making efforts for rooting out terrorism.He said Pakistan will not conduct raids in Afghanistan. “Peace can be restored by intelligence sharing,” he said.Aziz said Pakistan and Afghanistan have agreed to carry out coordinated actions against terrorists in their respective areas. He said the two countries have also agreed not to let anyone use their soil against each other.

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6265
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby CRamS » 21 Dec 2014 03:15

SudipJi, Thx for posting that. Fair didi tells it like it is. I hope the "unterrupted" and "unterruptible" perverts in India listen to her.

g.sarkar
BRFite
Posts: 1758
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby g.sarkar » 21 Dec 2014 03:41

http://www.aljazeera.com/humanrights/20 ... 02446.html
Human Rights
Statelessness and Britain's secret courts
A British-born family is the first to lose citizenship in a secret court trial held in their absence.
On Tuesday December 16, the British parliament held a debate over Home Secretary Theresa May's new Counterterrorism and Security Bill.
Prime Minister David Cameron supports the proposals put forward which include new powers to be granted to the UK Border Agency (UKBA) and police. Elements of the legislation are proving controversial, facing legal and political opposition partly on the basis that they may lead to an increasing number of Britons being made stateless. Four years ago, a British-born man of Asian heritage and his family were tried in absence in one of the UK's secret courts. Terrorism-linked charges filed against the male relatives, all born in Britain, led to the decision to revoke their passports.
An action which the family says has "destroyed" them. According to legal lobby groups and rights activists, the manner in which Britons may be stripped of citizenship raise serious questions about the legislation's political motives. Kat Craig, legal director of the human rights organisation Reprieve, told Al Jazeera: "The regressive nature of these measures is clear from the company their supporters keep. The UK has been praised by the far right French Front National for these provisions, while the US Supreme Court has called similar measures "a form of punishment more primitive than torture."
Secret Courts
The British government has issued an order preventing the father and his children from being named. Therefore, the man is referred to here as "S1"......
Gautam

Mahendra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4409
Joined: 11 Aug 2007 17:20
Location: Chronicling Bakistan's Tryst with Dysentery

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Mahendra » 21 Dec 2014 03:48

^If it was Mani Shanker Aiyer they would have named him M1

Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6353
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Amber G. » 21 Dec 2014 04:03

Jrjrao - Nice to see your post (after a long time). Thanks.
Sudip - Thanks for posting the Fair piece

dsreedhar
BRFite
Posts: 257
Joined: 10 Jan 2011 06:57

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby dsreedhar » 21 Dec 2014 05:04

The peshawar tragedy is not going to change pakistan's strategy of using proxies and the play of good vs bad terrorist. The tragedy maybe a trigger but not the defining moment. The pak army just got more support for killing the bad terrorists with impunity. The pak populace still shows full faith and support to pak army only which is understandable. Not much sane voices questioning the army yet. Unless and until pak army is reigned in and made to pay a heavy price for its adventurism, the game goes on.
India should just stay firm and not be complacent and forgiving. Respond to any mischief across LoC with the same vigour.

RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17254
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby RamaY » 21 Dec 2014 05:05

Peregrine wrote:Recevied from "Across the Pond"
Act of War - Fakir S Ayazuddin


Link please!


Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3763
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Shreeman » 21 Dec 2014 05:27

Dear Sir,

I take strong objection to certain posters, who have promoted the notion of pakistan going to "fick itself". We are a proud nation, and we most certainly do not, as mr " jrjrao" put it, "go fick yourself", we have kufr, children, wimmens, and most importantly goats for this purpose. And if my husband was here, I would have sent him to the goat shed with Ameena, just to show you what for.

Yours sincerely,

Brigadeer Achkmed Nawaaj, retd. (Mrs)
17 Kakul road, Cantonment.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35017
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby shiv » 21 Dec 2014 05:30

Peregrine wrote:Recevied from "Across the Pond"

Act of War - Fakir S Ayazuddin

Pakis who live in North America (or who have bought into the WU mindset) think that their nation of birth can talk like and implement things like Americans have done. American military power certainly allows what they did to Iraq and Afghanistan. But that does not mean that Pakistan can do that to Afghanistan. Even the US and ISAF could not seal the Af-Pak border.

..so this article is pure mast-ur-bhashan.

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3919
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby sanjaykumar » 21 Dec 2014 05:51

The good brigadier neglected to refer to the Pakistani classic by Javed K. Javed, Three Men in a Goat.

member_22733
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3788
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby member_22733 » 21 Dec 2014 05:54

shiv wrote:Pakis who live in North America (or who have bought into the WU mindset) think that their nation of birth can talk like and implement things like Americans have done. American military power certainly allows what they did to Iraq and Afghanistan. But that does not mean that Pakistan can do that to Afghanistan. Even the US and ISAF could not seal the Af-Pak border.

..so this article is pure mast-ur-bhashan.


:rotfl: :rotfl:

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21044
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Prem » 21 Dec 2014 06:08

Did't See this posted.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1151930/it-was ... l-atrocity
It wasn’t the final atrocity

f Pakistan had a collective conscience, just one single fact could have woken it up: the murder of nearly 60 polio workers — women and men who work to save children from a crippling disease — at the hands of the fanatics.Hence the horrible inevitability: from time to time, Pakistan shall continue to witness more such catastrophes. No security measures can ever prevent attacks on soft targets. The only possible solution is to change mindsets. For this we must grapple with three hard facts.
First, let’s openly admit that the killers are not outsiders or infidels. Instead, they are fighting a war for the reason Boko Haram fights in Nigeria, IS in Iraq and Syria, Al Shabab in Kenya, etc. The men who slaughtered our children are fighting for a dream — to destroy Pakistan as a Muslim state and recreate it as an Islamic state. This is why they also attack airports and shoot at PIA planes. They see these as necessary steps towards their utopia.No one should speculate about the identity of the killers. Taliban spokesman Muhammad Umar Khorasani released pictures of the eight ‘martyrs’, justifying the killing of minors with reference to Hadith (a horrific perversion, of course). Dizzied by religious passions, the men roamed the school searching for children hiding under desks and shouted “Allah-o-Akbar” before opening fire. Shot in both legs, Shahrukh Khan, 16, says he survived by playing dead. Another surviving student, Aamir Ali, says that two clean-shaven gunmen told students to recite the kalima before shooting them multiple times.Second, Pakistan must scorn and punish those who either support terrorism publicly or lie to us about the identity of terrorists. Television anchors and political personalities have made their fortunes and careers by fabricating wild theories. For example, retired Gen Hamid Gul and his son Abdullah Gul have adamantly insisted multiple times on TV that suicide attackers were not circumcised and hence not Muslim. Though body parts are plentifully available for inspection these days, they have not retracted earlier claims.
Those on the state’s payroll that encourage violence against the state must be dismissed. Maulana Abdul Aziz of Islamabad’s Lal Masjid — a government mosque — led an insurrection in 2007 against the Pakistani state. He flatly refuses to condemn the Peshawar massacre. Other state employees have called upon all to not pray for army soldiers killed in action. At another level is Jamaatud Dawa’s supremo, Hafiz Saeed. He blames India for the Peshawar massacre and, ignoring ironclad evidence, misguides Pakistanis about the identity of the enemy.Among political leaders, none is more blameworthy than Imran Khan, the icon of millions of immature minds. He has never named the Taliban as terrorists even when they claimed responsibility for various atrocities. That the TTP may be involved in the Peshawar massacre is the first exception, but this is contained only in a tweet. For a man who uses the strongest language against political opponents and has hogged TV channels for months, he has yet to condemn TTP before a national audience. Why the reticence?It was even worse earlier.
Third, if Pakistan is to be at peace with itself then it must seek peace with its neighbours and begin disassembling the apparatus of jihad. The bitter truth is that you reap what you sow. Today, massive militant establishments hold the Pakistani state hostage. They run their own training centres, hospitals, and disaster relief programmes. When Sartaj Aziz, adviser to the prime minister on foreign affairs, said that Pakistan was not going to target militant groups which “did not pose a threat to the state”, he accidentally spilled the beans. In fact he was merely restating Pakistan’s well-known zero-sum paradigm — we live to hurt others, not to better ourselves.While bewailing the murder of our children, let us acknowledge that Pakistan’s soil has been used time and again for inflicting grief and sorrow across the world. Today it is not just India and Afghanistan who accuse us, but also China and Iran.By launching Zarb-i-Azb, Gen Raheel Sharif has broken with his timid predecessor, Gen Kayani. North Waziristan should never have become the epicentre of terrorism. He has done well to meet President Ashraf Ghani in Kabul and demand the extradition of TTP’s Mullah Fazlullah, now ensconced on the Afghan side. But what of Mullah Omar? The Pakistani Taliban and the Afghan Taliban are two sides of the same coin. I wonder if President Ghani asked General Sharif to help extradite Mullah Omar for facing justice before the Afghan people.

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6265
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby CRamS » 21 Dec 2014 06:11

The Big Fight on UndY is worth a watch for the reason that the American govt mouthpiece on the panel was asked if US also makes the distinction between "good terrorists" (TSP pigLeTs that target India) and "bad terrorists" (those that target US and TSPA)

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-bi ... sts/349254

On the flip side, Vikram let that Paki puke get away with Samjuatha instead of pointing out that it was a self goal by MMS, and UN in fact has named a Paki pigLeT as the master mind.

Fianlly, important question for us on BR. Brahma Chellaney claims that there has not been a single drone strike by US on Afghan Taliban sitting in Quetta and elsewhere. Is his claim true? Also, why would the US not press for Afghan Taliban GPS coordinates from ISI? This seems rather strange to me.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23570
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby SSridhar » 21 Dec 2014 06:35

jrjrao wrote:
The prognosis of a possible Pakistani response? If Pakistan’s political and diplomatic response is either wanting, or delayed, or non-existent, the inevitability of the dispute falling into the lap of the military to respond will be the only default eventuality. A military that may have waited earlier on the sidelines will be forced to react to an Indian ploy that may be far too advanced in implementation.

Under unfavourable circumstances the army may be forced to find recourse in traditional responses. Will that mean 1989 all over again; or another skirmish or war?

Kashmir: four possibilities - Part II

The guy is openly admitting that the 1989 redux of redirecting jobless jihadi terrorists from the Afghan border to J&K is about to happen. He is justifying that too by the 'intransigence' of India. The stage is being set up for what we knew all along.


Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3223
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Kakkaji » 21 Dec 2014 07:56

jrjrao wrote:Not sure if the usual and very wordy bakwas from this Track-2'er and a "retired air-vice marshal of the Pakistan Air Force and its deputy chief of staff" is worth much reading time.

But three take-aways from Shahzad Chaudhry this time:


Isn't he the father of the Times Square bomber?

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35017
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby shiv » 21 Dec 2014 08:13

jrjrao wrote:

Kashmir: four possibilities - Part II[/quote]
Under unfavourable circumstances the army may be forced to find recourse in traditional responses. Will that mean 1989 all over again; or another skirmish or war? No one can tell. Indian cleverness with policy arrayed against Pakistani military may slide into another geopolitical degeneration with attendant consequences. Instead, political prudence through engagement and cooperative recourse to seek mutually beneficial resolution to the problem can bring us stability and peace in South Asia. It is time to bring in greater sincerity and avoid clever policy plays. The alternates are clearly disastrous.
This is such a beautiful and meaningful paragraph that I wish I could get my response below published

The uncertain geopolitical environment combined with the not too inconsiderable pressure on all parties invested in the face to face and away from the media parleys and also those within the glare of the media could possibly, under favourable circumstances, and, depending on the particular individuals involved, include circumstances that are not so favourable to decide on a course of action that would further inhibit, rather than encourage the creation of a policy or policies that could turn all the parties in a direction different from what appears to be the case when one examines the issue from a distance, not accounting for the uncertainties resulting from the passage of time between events of significance.

I state this as a clear and unambiguous warning to all concerned.


:(( :(( :rotfl:

A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11153
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby A_Gupta » 21 Dec 2014 08:35



As always, India must come to the rescue!
There can be hope, if Pakistan’s allies and neighbours are willing to create a conducive environment for the country to wean itself away from “Jihad Inc”. Most urgently, Pakistan’s military needs to rework its understanding of the threat posed by India. But unless India acknowledges the centrality of a stable and strong Pakistani state to its own security imperatives, and can find the empathy to see Pakistan as a victim of terror (albeit of its own making), it is unlikely that Pakistan’s military will ever fully abandon its jihadist allies.

Pakistan’s perceived friends have emerged as its greatest enemies. The country has little hope of changing course for the better if its perceived enemies cannot learn to be its friends.

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby arun » 21 Dec 2014 08:55

Kakkaji wrote:
jrjrao wrote:Not sure if the usual and very wordy bakwas from this Track-2'er and a "retired air-vice marshal of the Pakistan Air Force and its deputy chief of staff" is worth much reading time.

But three take-aways from Shahzad Chaudhry this time:


Isn't he the father of the Times Square bomber?



No. Air Vice marshal Shahzad Chaudhry is not the father of Times Square Bomber Faisal Shahzad. Father of Times Square Bomber Faisal Shahzad is Bahar ul Haq described as a “retired senior Pakistani air force officer”

Link emerges between Times Square bomb attempt and Pakistani militant group

BBC article reports that father of Times Square Bomber Faisal Shahzad, Bahar-ul Haq “was a fighter pilot who rose to the position of air vice marshal in the Pakistan air force” (See Box by M Ilyas Khan):

US tightens security after Times Square bomb plot

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby arun » 21 Dec 2014 09:16

“Pakistan defines its threat as coming from those militants who cannot be persuaded to kill in Afghanistan or India” – C Christine Fair.

Wall Street Journal:

Pakistan Moves to End Policy on ‘Good Taliban’: School Massacre Stirs Optimism Pakistan Will Stop Supporting Jihadist Groups.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21044
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Prem » 21 Dec 2014 10:04

Pakistan"s present policy decision will determine whether Pakistan can, should be nuked or not in next decade , without worrying about world public opinion.

surinder
BRFite
Posts: 1421
Joined: 08 Apr 2005 06:57
Location: Badal Ki Chaaon Mein

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby surinder » 21 Dec 2014 10:36

Paul wrote:Pakhtun vs Pakjabi civil war is wishful thinking. Will not happen anytime in the near future.


Why is that? the Pashtun Pakjabi war is already going on. Pashtuns despise the Pukjabis. Pakjabis fear the Pashtuns. They path of the two communities is very different. They are just two nations with a very different idea of the world. This alliance is the death knell of Pakistan.

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15996
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby RajeshA » 21 Dec 2014 12:14

Sudip wrote:

Christine Fair has come some way from her statements of Indians supporting Baluchistanis using our embassies in Afghanistan. Very clear explanation of ISI thinking.

Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9894
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Vayutuvan » 21 Dec 2014 12:20

sanjaykumar wrote:The good brigadier neglected to refer to the Pakistani classic by Javed K. Javed, Three Men in a Goat.
(to say nothing of the she dog)

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35017
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby shiv » 21 Dec 2014 12:32

surinder wrote:
Paul wrote:Pakhtun vs Pakjabi civil war is wishful thinking. Will not happen anytime in the near future.


Why is that? the Pashtun Pakjabi war is already going on. Pashtuns despise the Pukjabis. Pakjabis fear the Pashtuns. They path of the two communities is very different. They are just two nations with a very different idea of the world. This alliance is the death knell of Pakistan.

There is definitely a Pashtun Pakjabi war on. But it is only one of several wars like Pakjab-Baluch, Sunni-Shia etc.

Pakistan has all the fissures that the British identified in India when they said India would not last long. Pakistanis agreed with and echoed all those things said about India. It is the bottom-up unifying culture of India where fissures are resolved at ground level that actually unites India. Democracy simply assists the process. Imposed democracy is a top-down system and cannot work unless ground level consensus can happen.

Top down legal systems (like Islam, Christianity other fascist doctrines, dictatorships) cannot forcibly unite people from above. I would judge that Pakistanis, on the ground, are still like Indians. They will solve their differences and disputes at ground level and simply get along, but top down doctrines like Islam are actually a hindrance.

Pakistan will have to discard Islam or aspects of Islam to unite. Islam only divides. it cannot unite diverse culture. Islam is a mono-culture because it dictates and imposes rigid restrictions on all aspect of culture like language, habits, dress, cuisine and art. I write this here so Paki lurkers (the 1% who can read) can read and get angry and deny this without having the ability to come and argue on here, but those are the facts. Anger won't change facts

Comer
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3575
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Comer » 21 Dec 2014 13:05

shiv,
The resolving of issues at the grass root level is just one aspect of it. When the Pakjabi govt, does a collective punishment of Pashtuns by bombing them from air, it takes a different connotation. What has Pakjabis done so the Pashtuns are beholden to them. One possible reason is they may been cowered into submission by repeated raids by the Army and fizzleya.

shravan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2198
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 00:08

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby shravan » 21 Dec 2014 13:17

24 killed in air strikes
http://www.dawn.com/news/1152228


However, independent sources said eight civilians — a teenage son, three grandsons and two women of the family of a tribesman, Taj Mohammad Qambar­khel, and two of his Afghan guests — were killed when his house in Therkho Kas was attacked by the planes.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35017
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby shiv » 21 Dec 2014 14:07

saravana wrote:shiv,
The resolving of issues at the grass root level is just one aspect of it. When the Pakjabi govt, does a collective punishment of Pashtuns by bombing them from air, it takes a different connotation. What has Pakjabis done so the Pashtuns are beholden to them. One possible reason is they may been cowered into submission by repeated raids by the Army and fizzleya.


Islam is ideal for holding together a single - "monoculture" group -. I think Islam of a single type (eg Sunni Islam of one variety) would be a good glue for Pakjabis alone. Although Pakhtuns are Islamic the difference between Pakjabi and Pakhtun culture has made Pakjabis consider themselves a higher species. The Pakijabis have, in addition, seen themselves as inheritors of British rule and have been trying to keep the "unruly" Pakhtuns in order since 1947 - so collective punishment (under the "FCR" - Frontier Crimes regulation" laws has been kept going"

That in itself would lead to a Pakjabi-Paktun war. But Pakjab is not united because it has its sunni, shia, ahmedi, sufi splits and even among sunnis there are barelvis, deobandis and wahhabis. I think Pakhtuns are uniformly sunni - so the splits go in various directions.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11067
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2014 14:09

CNN-IBN News ‏@ibnlive 9m9 minutes ago Noida, Uttar Pradesh

Pakistan security forces nab over 300 terror suspects in Islamabad http://
Where these folks preparing for Gazwa-e-Pind?

M Joshi
BRFite
Posts: 298
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby M Joshi » 21 Dec 2014 14:22

Don't know if the same thought has been posted by some other poster before, but I think this whole drama of giving & then taking back the bail to Lakhvi was to counter any move by the GoI to release Sadhvi Pragaya & Col Purohit. Now if these two are released any time soon, the these pakis & secularists simultaneously can mount pressure on GoI and demand equal equal of cancelling their bail. Also, explains the fake displeasure that uNDieTV is showing this time against Lakhvi bail. Will help them in doing equal equal later.

Now, GoI should first investigate & sentence the true perpetrators of Samjhauta Express Blast before bailing the innocents, which IMO will take some good amount of time.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: pattnayak, vivekmehta and 51 guests