Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec 2014

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pankajs
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby pankajs » 14 Jan 2015 11:46

johneeG wrote:a) cold-war politics(Bhaarath joined with Soviets, so Pakistan was taken under the wing of US).

I have been meaning to comment on this aspect after watching many American commentators on Indian-US relations but kept forgetting.

Most Americans too would state something similar e.g A mild one would be "Indians went with the Soviets and American with Pakistanis". To me that always *sounded* like "BECAUSE India went with Soviets America was FORCED to go with Pakistan" i.e the past state of the relationship was India's fault.

My *understanding*, and I could be wrong, is that Pak *offered* itself to the Americans but the Americans wanted India as a partner in our region. When India kept fending off the Americans with its no-aligned rhetoric the Americans finally went with Pakistan. India always had a socialistic leaning but it was pushed firmly into the Soviet orbit only after the US-Pak partnership and BECAUSE of that partnership.

So from my POV the history of India-US relationship should be stated as "US forged a close partnership with Pakistan forcing India to ally with the Soviets".

To me that sounds substantially different from how it is presented by the US commentators and left unchallenged by Indians. That is a *subtle* shifting of blame if there is to be blame that is. Would like others to comment on this or am I making a mountain of a molehill???

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby pankajs » 14 Jan 2015 13:04

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 883313.cms
Pervez Musharraf indicted in Akbar Bugti murder case
ISLAMABAD/NEW DELHI: A Pakistani anti-terrorist court in Quetta has indicted former Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf in the the murder case of Baloch tribal leader Akbar Bugti, TV channels reported on Wednesday.

The court was hearing the case relating to the murder of Bugti who was killed in an army operation in 2006.

...
Musharraf was also indicted on March 31 for high treason for suspending, subverting and abrogating the Constitution, imposing an emergency in the country in November 2007 and detaining judges of the superior courts.
For whatever it is worth.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby KLNMurthy » 14 Jan 2015 13:05

Vipul wrote:Dalai Lama has clout only with the international whisky/pasta gulping conference hoping clowns. When it comes to the real movers and shakers of the world - USA and China, he has zilch clout. He has no right to give any patronising sermon to India to accomadate the Paki Shia's. He should instead invite the Uighurs Muslims from Xinjiang to migrate to Tibet.

It is psyops only by His Holiness who has proved to be a zen koan wielding yeevil yindoo under the maroon robes. No paki shias are actually going to come to India; all that his statement does is to point out that India is good and pakistan is bad. HH has a wicked sense of humor. He is an out-and-out Modi-ite but (a) he has to be careful in his position and (b) the DIE just keep quiet about his utterances because it will make their heads explode with confusion if they try to tackle him.

BRF Mujahids need to realize that not all words are to be taken literally, some words are weapons.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 14 Jan 2015 13:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby deejay » 14 Jan 2015 13:06

@pankajs ji, I agree with your take. To me the US found a 'neo' colony in Pakistan lying down before it to be used and disposed as per their whims. The US Generals, GOTUS officials could not resist the perks of a 'colonial master' treatment from the Pakis ,who were being as Paki as only a Paki can. Some of the hangover from this 'joyous' colonial supremacy still exist hence the reluctance to let go of Pakistan.

They are coming out of it as the Paki worm starts causing the nauseous diseases it is bound to cause of which Robin Rafael is just one symptom. It is clear that the GOTUS will take time to surrender the joys of pseudo Colonial entertainment that they got in Pakistan. India unfortunately (for GOTUS) is in no mood to replace the Paki attitude. India exerts rights as equal partner and to this the US has to adjust.



Edit: Added a glaring omission after 'unfortunately'
Last edited by deejay on 14 Jan 2015 15:37, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby UlanBatori » 14 Jan 2015 14:42

IIRC, India stayed non-aligned on the principle that "alliances" were what led to colonization (this for the modern types who diss Non-Alignment as a stupid policy - try putting yourself in the shoes of leaders who had just emerged after 190 years of slavery caused by petty idiots al-lying themselves with the colonizers to spite their neighbors, thereby putting the whole continent under slavery).

TSP joined "SEATO" South East Asia Turds Organization, a US-run kennel modeled on NATO.

It was not until 1969-70 that India actually signed a Mutual Defense agreement with the USSR - b4 doing something to stop the genocide in East Bengal. Without that, no Indian PM could order massive intervention there, because it was expected that the Tarrel and Deeple Fliends would cross over Assom to rescue of the rapists.
The huuuuuge surprise of the 1971 war was that the PRC stayed sitting on their thumbs, devastating Yahya Khan's hopes. For this, in addition to the Soviet commitment, one must also thank the Nixon Administration and particularly KissMyAssinger, because Mao et al decided that they were not going to go help a US-lackeyed genocidal rapist goon squad. I guess they reasoned accurately that this way, history would pin the blood of 3 million innocents squarely on the butts of the American administration.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby A_Gupta » 14 Jan 2015 16:06

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/ ... 4U20150113

Jan 13 (Reuters) - Pakistan's central bank is launching a second phase of a mass media campaign designed to raise awareness and acceptance of Islamic finance among consumers in the world's second most populous Muslim country.

The campaign is part of the central bank's five-year plan for the industry. The new phase, announced at the end of December, will shift from building the overall visibility of the industry to educating consumers on the value proposition of Islamic finance.


The campaign aims to help the industry reach ambitious targets including a 20 percent share of Pakistan's banking system by 2020. As of September, the industry held an 9.9 percent share of banking assets and 10.7 percent of deposits, central bank data shows.

Last week, the central bank launched a financial innovation competition which will extend grants to develop new Islamic finance products.

Regulators want to encourage more profit-sharing modes of sharia-compliant finance such as musharaka, whose share of overall Islamic financing in Pakistan reached double digits for the first time in September at 10.1 percent, compared to 4.2 percent a year earlier.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby SSridhar » 14 Jan 2015 16:20


Tuvaluan wrote:Seems like the Paki army has started its game plan of pretending subcontinental variants of IS and Al Qaeda for their proxy wars against Afghanisthan and India, now that the older groups have changed focus. It will be interesting to see what this 'IS in pakistan" announces as its top priority -- if India is anywhere on the list, then the paki army is backing this Paki-IS without a doubt.

I had posted before on the emerging IS and the simultaneous split within TTP. I still believe that the TSPA would not do business with the IS because of two reasons: one, the interests of the IS and the TSPA are orthogonal, and two, the IS will never be subservient to the TSPA.

The announcement of the new chief of IS for its Khorasan unit and the formal kick-start of recruitment are events that were expected. Even without a formal announcement of recruitment, people in the Indian Subcontinent have been joining the Daesh. If Indian Muslims can be going in such numbers, one can imagine the attractiveness of the IS to the Pakistani brain-washed masses. We know for a fact how LeT cadres deserted it to join Al Qaeda & TTP in c. 2002 & 2007 respectively.

Also, look at the type of TTP commanders who have joined the IS, they are the most brutal of the 'bad Taliban'. There is also a video of the IS, Khorasan slitting the throat of a person claimed by it as a Pakistani soldier. We do not know if indeed he was a soldier of the TSPA, but the claim itself makes the hatred of the IS, Khorasan quite evident.

India will be in the cross hairs of the IS because it is already speaking of Mehdi, Khorasan etc. But, IMHO, that may not prove any linkage between PA & IS.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby SSridhar » 14 Jan 2015 16:56

On the India-US-Pakistan trilateral relationship and its evolution, I had the following write-up that I share here. Normally, in such issues, there will be a combination of events that shape up the attitude of a state towards another and in this case also, there were many.

**Rather a long post **
Having just gained independence using sustained nonviolence over a protracted period of time against one of the most powerful nations on earth and thus caught the admiration of both the free and the colonized nations, Indian leaders naturally stood on a high moral pedestal when it came to dealing with global conflicts and issues and were very self-righteous about this. India anchored its foreign policies on two pillars, namely strategic autonomy (which led to non-alignment between the two Cold-war blocks) and self-reliance. While non-alignment meant steering clear of either blocks of the US or the USSR, the goal of self-reliance sometimes impeded relationship, especially with the US. India also decided to speak up and stand up for what it considered as just causes. The Indian foreign policy was guided by third-world solidarity, non-alignment with either blocs, anti-imperialism and anti-colonialism. That, practice of state craft was a fine balancing art between conflicting requirements, to maximize benefits for the country while minimizing risks, was either lost on most of her leaders, diplomats and policy makers or was arrogantly consigned to dust-bin in the initial flush of gaining freedom.

Too many events were happening around the world in a rapid succession such as the Palestine problem, the division of Germany, the independence struggles that India supported namely those of Indonesia from the Dutch and of Vietnam from the French, the Suez canal issue in 1956, the question of Apartheid in South Africa for which India worked to expel that nation from the Commonwealth, South Africa’s occupation of Namibia, the Cold War, Nuclear weapons and test issues, the issue of Disarmament, the Korean War (1950-53), Treaty-of-Peace with Japan, the struggle of the Afro-Asian countries against colonialism, entry of People's Republic of China (PRC) to the UN in spite of its occupation of Tibet by the fall of 1950 and its hostile attitude towards India, the Indian military action in Goa (Operation Vijay), the general opposition to Portugal’s colonialism, the transfer of pockets of French possession in India, the Afro-Asian Bandung Conference in 1955, the invasion in Vietnam, the suppression of the Hungarian uprising by the USSR where India chose not to condemn the Soviet Union, the Cuban invasion by the United States, Nehru’s attempts at forging third world solidarity and his unmasked revulsion of the United States even as he single-handedly defined India’s foreign policy, to name just a few. In many of these crises, India was a leading voice. Having chosen to stand for unbending moral correctness, many of these events naturally seemed to pit India against the Western powers as India's stand on most of these issues was in direct conflict with them. Nehru declared in c. 1960, “The future destiny of the world cannot be decided by two or three great powers. We stand looking at the crest of tremendous changes in the world. We are not mere onlookers there. We are actors in this drama and we propose to be actors in it in our own way”. In fact, India’s quest to be a leading light in establishing a just world order, a quest too ambitious for an emaciated India just getting out of two hundred years of colonial yoke and exploitation, had started even before it got independence. The INC (Indian National Congress) sponsored a medical team led by Dr. Dwarkanath Shantaram Kotnis to serve the Chinese, especially Chinese army units that had been hit by a virulent strain of plague, during the aggression by Japan in the Second World War. The INC again reacted strongly against the Balfour Declaration that displaced the Palestenians from their lands. Later, India refused to have any diplomatic relationship with Israel fearing a backlash from Muslim community in India as well as Islamic countries of the Middle East that were meeting India’s crude oil requirements. It was only in circa 1992 that India established diplomatic relationship with Israel and the Indo-Israeli contact gre tremendously thereafter. Just before independence, Nehru convened the Asian Relations Conference (ARC) in New Delhi in March, 1947 in which he propounded free India’s foreign policies. Later, when the stubborn Dutch refused to leave Indonesia, Nehru convened a “New Delhi Conference” on Indonesia on January 20, 1949.

Rahul Mukherji divides the Indian economic foreign policy into five phases. The first one from 1947 to 1955 was a period when neither the US nor the USSR showed much interest in India; the second from 1956 to 1962 was one where non-alignment spurred competition between the super powers, and India attracted substantial foreign aid from both the US and the USSR; the third, from 1963 to 1966 witnessed the deterioration of economic relations with the US; the fourth period from 1967 to 1977 was a time when India and the USSR enjoyed special security and economic relations, which worked to the detriment of Indo-US relations and the fifth which lasted till 1990, found India in a situation where its resolve to improve relations with the US or its allies was not rewarded because it could not give up its preferred relationship with the USSR. It is a well accepted fact that India’s perceived tilt towards the USSR was nothing to do with ideology and everything to do with the geostrategic interests of India, its economic compulsions and the unresponsive Western world generally for India’s needs. Although some aspects of India’s foreign policy might have been driven by idealism, a large portion of it was based on realism. Though the world was and has been generally fascinated by India with its civilization, philosophy, culture, craft and arts, the Western Governments took a dim, though not an avowedly hostile, view of India and found it easier to deal with Pakistan, which, bereft of such a moral baggage, was easily pliable. As the noted American intellectual Edward Said had noted, the concept of ‘Orientalism’ was a British (and French) discourse that generally looked down upon India and the US inherited this from Great Britain after the Second World War. A young Z.A. Bhutto, the then foreign minister of Pakistan, complained bitterly in April 1963 in their national assembly that the “world has been too kind to India” The Western bloc nevertheless was aware of the strategic folly of brushing India aside completely. This was the start of the zero-sum game of the Western powers in the Indian subcontinent, that continued without letup till recently and has not disappeared completely even today, in spite of protestations to the contrary from these nations.

This led India to a tumultuous relationship with the Western powers rather than a consistent and smooth one, with India turning to a more-than-willing Former Soviet Union (FSU) at times of need, further exacerbating the relationship with the Western bloc. The Western nations had no confidence that India could survive as a nation state and that was one reason for the British to carve out a Pakistan which was guaranteed to survive because of the unifying force of Islam. The fierce anti-colonial outlook of India, the decision by India to remain neutral, the decision by the Western countries to have military relationship with Pakistan at the expense of India and their refusal to help India industrialize were the factors that strained the relationship and led to misunderstanding. There is often quoted the story of the Bokaro steel plant in Ranchi (presently in the state of Jharkand) to illustrate the Cold War rivalry between the US and the USSR to woo other countries to their repective blocks by dangling aid. The other case is that of the Aswan High Dam in Egypt. The Bokaro steel Plant was a project under the Colombo Plan and initially GoI sought US help but the conditions put forth by the US Congress for assistance was found to be unacceptable to GoI which then sought the help of the USSR. This mutual distrust and the frequent antagonistic forms it took, never really helped in furthering a natural convergence of interests otherwise befitting India and the Western democracies. While India did not seek any military alliance with the West, it certainly wanted a deeper relationship and economic cooperation. However, it was not forthcoming. There was no engagement from the Western governments with India’s Five-Year plans of economic growth. The US simply ignored India for the most part. It felt that India’s position of ‘neutrality’ was immoral’ as was explained by Secretary of State John Foster Dulles in President Eisenhower’s tenure. Dulles, like many other Western diplomats, was put off by his encounters with an acerbic and sharp-tongued V.K.Krishna Menon, India’s representative in the UN and Nehru’s refusal to sign the Japan Peace Treaty at San Francisco in 1951 because China was not invited for the same. When the Korean War broke out, India refused to term China as the aggressor in the UN General Assembly, even though it had initially voted in favour of UN action against North Korea. Secretary of State John Foster Dulles’ visit to India in May 1953, followed by Vice President Nixon’s visit in December of the same year worsened the situation for India. It is even a fact that Nixon was miffed by the vegetarian food (and no alcohol) in a state dinner whereas he was treated lavishly at his next port of call, Pakistan. This seems to have fixed his dislike for India permanently.

Their negative impressions about India and extremely positive opinion about Pakistan followed by President Eisenhower’s decision in January, 1954 to engage in a military relationship with Pakistan, defined the India-US relationship for the next four decades. An oft-quoted impression of John Foster Dulles is his reference to Gurkhas as Pakistanis. When corrected he aggravated the situation by claiming that at least they were Muslims. Such ideas had been formed through books such as ‘Mother India’ (c. 1927) by Ms. Katherine Mayo in which Hindu men were described scathingly as effeminate, servile, coward and passive. From a purely strategic standpoint, Pakistan therefore appeared to be a far more attractive option than India. Its Army was perceived as the successor to the British Indian Army in thwarting the onward march of Communist Russia through Afghanistan into the Middle East. The non-military Public Law 480 (PL 480 also known as Food for Peace) assistance to India (which entailed 1500 shiploads of wheat and rice to India over four years, to meet harvest deficits and build up a reserve) was strongly objected to by Pakistan and the US curtailed the assistance. The continued US support for Pakistan’s claim on Kashmir and its line of reasoning was another constant source of irritation in the India-US relationship. To make matters worse, the US Administration was strongly opposed to the liberation of Goa from colonial Portugal. India’s swift military action on December 17, 1961 to liberate Goa after patient and protracted negotiations lasting over 14 years with an adamant and aggressive Portugal had failed, was termed as ‘an act of aggression’ by the US which was a NATO ally of Portugal. The US also sponsored a UNSC Resolution for withdrawal of India troops which was vetoed by the USSR while it took a mere 40 hours for India to re-possess Goa from the brutal and intolerant regime of Portugal's dictator, Dr Antonio de Oliveira Salazar. It took a very long time for this fundamentally flawed and unsustainable situation to change, but change it did in the 90s with the collapse of the FSU and thus the Cold War, the end of the Afghan occupation by FSU, emergence of a free market economy, the Pokhran-II tests, the Kargil (Op. Badr) war, the WTC terrorist attacks and common terrorist threat perceptions. Each one of them added its own dynamic and dimension to the normalization of the relationship with the Western world led by the US. The former Canadian High Commissioner to India, David M. Malone writes in his book, “India's policy was appreciated with much more moderate enthusiasm by the West, which, with overweening superiority, and the assumption that any democracy worthy of the concept should align on it, indulged quite frequently in bullying tactics towards Delhi (while also assisting it economically, particularly with food aid). . . Russia was eventually able to acquire India as an ally, virtually by default, through a more relaxed projection towards India of its ideological posture, through patience with Indian rhetorical flourishes, and a realist appreciation that India mattered in the balance of power in Asia. Indian needling of the West, particularly of the USA, the fruit of its anti-imperialist sentiment, and the high-minded nature of much Indian speech-making at the U.N. and elsewhere, was congruent with its eventual alliance with Moscow, but the latter was unable to assist India much with several of its pressing needs.”

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby UlanBatori » 14 Jan 2015 17:14

I still believe that the TSPA would not do business with the IS because of two reasons: one, the interests of the IS and the TSPA are orthogonal, and two, the IS will never be subservient to the TSPA.


Interesting, Sridharji. OTOH, a) (superficially) and b) apply equally well to the Taliban, good or bad, yet the TSPA-ISI are what created, trained and fed them. To quote General Mohammed Aziz, Chief of the Pakistan Army of Islam(ic Terror), recipient of the Legend of Honor, Dignity and Sovirgnity from no less than the US War College: (source: phone call intercept between Pervez Musharraf and Mohammed Aziz, April 1999)
We have the jehadis by the throat, Sir! They will do as we say!

The late B. Raman pointed out that 80% of the Officer Corps(es) of the Taliban in Afghanistan were Pakistan Army officers.

The ISIS today is basically the Taliban of the 1990s - funded by Saudis/Gelf Oil Thieves. Their brutality is glaring because it is advertised on YouTube, but are they any worse than the Saudis in reality?

The TSPA is basically a rent-a rapist (RaR). They will rent out to anyone who allows them their pastimes. So I think the major source for Officer Recruiting for Daeish is indeed TSPA. US-trained, ready to operate and train others with M-1s, Apaches, TOWs, Stingers. Fluent in Angreji. Issues such as "whisky-swilling" I suspect, will be OK with Daeish at its upper levels, just as they are for the Gelf Thieves and Saudis.

About subservience, I agree that they will go their own way, but operational planning will still be with TSPA/ISI experts. 70 years of experience, what-what! The quid pro quo at the top levels will be to target India.

If you recall, the MAJOR let-down that the TSPA suffered was that after the conquest of Kabul in 1992, the Taliban refused to come to Kashmir. OBL and Al Zuwahiri basically seem to have declared that India was far more hospitable (and soft) for their followers than much of the rest of the world, so India was a very low priority.
If Daeish agrees to feel differently, the TSPA is in fat-city.

P.S. the 'Long Post" does not mention TSP's GUBOing under SEATO. That was a formal alliance, that was behind such other stellar successes of US foreign policy as Korea and Vietnam.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby kenop » 14 Jan 2015 19:49

UlanBatori wrote:Interesting, Sridharji. OTOH, a) (superficially) and b) apply equally well to the Taliban, good or bad, yet the TSPA-ISI are what created, trained and fed them. To quote General Mohammed Aziz, Chief of the Pakistan Army of Islam(ic Terror), recipient of the Legend of Honor, Dignity and Sovirgnity from no less than the US War College: (source: phone call intercept between Pervez Musharraf and Mohammed Aziz, April 1999)

Somebody please post a link to the audio.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby CRamS » 14 Jan 2015 19:50

Guys, my take on Dala Lama's statement. I am with KLNMurthyJi. Basically, other than the psy-ops value that India is safe for Muslims while land of pure is anything but that, is all there is to take away. And except that Dalai Lama gets quoted, nothing much more is gained nor lost. And TSP gets a little p!ssed at his statement.

As an aside, somebody else commented that the Dalai Lama has no clout. All that he gets is some cheap publicity by western elite toadies who after all the wine & sex need get some cheap non-carnal eclectic satisfaction by being seen with the Dalai Lama. Its a pity that he gets used that way, and I fault him also for that. And then of course, can the bloody Uncle Tom colonial-diseased worms that infest elite circles in Indian metros (DDM, Bollywood etc) be far behind? They have to confer a larger than life respect to Dalai Lama because Richard Gere and Jennifer Anniston & Co did so, and at the same time the bankrupt cowards have to diss their own like Sri Sri and other towering simpleton Hindu giants.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby UlanBatori » 14 Jan 2015 20:08

Give the DL pls. Compare to Hindu refugees inside India - at least the DL gets to travel around. He holds a Professorship along with Salman Rushdie at the Conversionist Emory University in Atlanta (most famous for its 'Scholarship' by Paul 'Limp Phall*s Courtright). Compare to plight of Kashmiri refugees, BD refugees, Partition refugees in India.

I am sure his stay in India is conditioned on the
Little Dalai Lamas r meant to b seen and not heard
dictum.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby KLNMurthy » 14 Jan 2015 21:03

UlanBatori wrote:Give the DL pls. Compare to Hindu refugees inside India - at least the DL gets to travel around. He holds a Professorship along with Salman Rushdie at the Conversionist Emory University in Atlanta (most famous for its 'Scholarship' by Paul 'Limp Phall*s Courtright). Compare to plight of Kashmiri refugees, BD refugees, Partition refugees in India.

I am sure his stay in India is conditioned on the
Little Dalai Lamas r meant to b seen and not heard
dictum.

Well, it's good to be the king, which HH was till the recent creation of the office of the Sikyong. HH DL has managed to sneak in enough political statements to make me believe he would fit very well indeed in the upper echelons of the RSS. Except for The Hindu's well-known fulminations, DIE dares not take him on.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby deejay » 14 Jan 2015 21:06

OT here:

I flew the Dalai Lama once. He is given the VVIP status in India which is accorded to heads of states. The old man asked me if my helicopter could carry Nukes!!! I was flying Mi 17s.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Amber G. » 14 Jan 2015 22:38

Pakistan’s Edition of the International New York Times Is Missing Something... :eek: :rotfl:

A Pakistani edition of the International New York Times in Islamabad on January 14, 2015, shows a blank section of a page that if printed, would report on the first issue of French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo since a jihadist attack decimated its editorial staff last week

Image
.... A statement at the bottom of the section reads ‘The article was removed by our publishing alliance in Pakistan. The International New York Times and its editorial staff had no role in its removal’. The French satirical magazine published a picture of a weeping Mohammed under the title ‘All is forgiven’, holding up a sign reading ‘Je suis Charlie’ (‘I am Charlie’) in its first issue since many of its staff were killed in a gun attack last week in Paris.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Prem » 14 Jan 2015 22:43

Image

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Tuvaluan » 14 Jan 2015 22:58

If Indian Muslims can be going in such numbers, one can imagine the attractiveness of the IS to the Pakistani brain-washed masses. We know for a fact how LeT cadres deserted it to join Al Qaeda & TTP in c. 2002 & 2007 respectively.


SSridharji, thanks. So if I read it correctly, it seems to imply that IS/Daesh comprised of "bad taliban" would indicate that they are going to get the lowest-hanging fruit first, which is Pakistan/Paki Army itself, and attract violent jihadis away from LeT and pro-Paki-army groups, which is a good outcome as far as India is concerned. The IS/Daesh is only likely to turn its attention towards India after they are done with the Paki Army, which itself will have other repercussions -- the only sticking point here seems to be the kind of self-goals by the Congress/"secular" Indian morons who are trying to make India a target for IS/Daesh by going on and on about Modi/hindutva and aided in the process by the likes of ISI/Pak Army to redirect the focus of IS/Daesh towards India rather than pakistan. This seems to indicate it is in Pakistan's interest to create a severe communal clash in India via their jihadi proxies and sleeper cells in India, should the IS/"bad" taliban turn their focus to the Paki army.

What is your view of the ex-"good" taliban like TTP that have now turned "bad" taliban, as seen by the recent Peshawar attacks?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Chandragupta » 14 Jan 2015 23:12

What happens when IS turns to India?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby ramana » 14 Jan 2015 23:33

Chandragupta wrote:What happens when IS turns to India?



Do a chart of modus operandi of IS and TSPA and answer the question yourself.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Tuvaluan » 14 Jan 2015 23:36

What happens when IS turns to India?


Then India would really have to crack down hard on all the saudi-based/pakistan-friendly imams and their ilk and their madrassas and their assets -- they are the ones who will provide the ideological foundation for future jihadis. GoI is probably already on the ball under this govt. but now would be good time to start gathering human intel and keeping track of any and all mosques with wahabbi/pak-deobandi imams and all the people who hang around those mosques. This will not ensure all the pro-IS people will be in the net, as this is just another form of more sophisticated profiling. From the recent IS sympathizer on twitter, who turned out to be loner bengali muslim middle manager in a corporate job, it is clear that there are a lot of educated Indian muslims who have pro-IS leanings and their ilk will be prime targets for the paki ISI/army recruitment in India. India will also have to get the cooperation of citizen groups as eyes and ears on the ground via public education of this threat.

The other threat is these groups doing the recruitment in places like Dubai and Saudi Arabia and training the cadre outside India before sending them in India, as the pakis did in the case of the IM -- this route will probably still be active. Thankfully, the monarchs in the middle east have an incentive to keep the IM in control so they may well cooperate. Just my 2 paise.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby saip » 14 Jan 2015 23:51

Amber G. wrote:Pakistan’s Edition of the International New York Times Is Missing Something... :eek: :rotfl:


It is not even the cartoon that they blacked out but just the report of the cartoon.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby member_22733 » 14 Jan 2015 23:58

If it was tge Hindus at the receiving end, NYT will have ALL of its pages covering only that story. Quite a bunch of hypocrites there, they and the Bakis deserve each other.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Tuvaluan » 15 Jan 2015 00:03

Here is the losers in the Associated Press actually blacking out the cartoon while pretending they are not.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/01/14/four-ways-the-associated-press-is-avoiding-showing-the-muhammad-cartoon-on-new-charlie-hebdo-issue/

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Amber G. » 15 Jan 2015 00:13

No I am not making this up... :rotfl:

Pak now has a test to tell a Haram vaccine from a halal vaccine.. and Lab tests show polio vaccine is not ‘Haram’
ISLAMABAD: It is official. The polio vaccine being used to fight the crippling disease in our Islamic state is Halal.

A laboratory controlled by the Drug Regulatory Authority of Pakistan (DRAP) has tested the vaccine and certified that,


Meanwhile careful counting of 6 new cases.. and with 300+ cases...

Pakistan equals its own 16-year-old polio record

What is disgusting is that nearly 60 polio workers were murdered in Pak..

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby abhijitm » 15 Jan 2015 01:20

I believe IS is using bakiland for their recruitment and they currently dont have any long term plan for the subcontinent. TSPA attemp to create AQ for the subcontinent is to prevent LeT and Taliban attrition. I doubt TSPA going to succeed. Without any spectacular success or a sustainable campaign against India it is very difficult to keep those jihadis motivated. IS is giving them taste of success and spoils of war.

Bakis going to face much bigger problem when those recruits will return back.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Amber G. » 15 Jan 2015 02:58

This has some good information (IMO) about Mosques in Pak...

Has any one visited http://imams.mashalbooks.org/where sermons from scores of mosques in rural Punjab have been recorded, transcribed, and categorised for full and free public access.

Mosque versus state By Pervez Hoodbhoy
THE mosque in Pakistan is now no longer just a religious institution. Instead it has morphed into a deeply political one that seeks to radically transform culture and society. Actively assisted by the state in this mission in earlier decades, the mosque is a powerful actor over which the state now exercises little authority. Some have been captured by those who fight the government and military. An eviscerated, embattled state finds it easier to drop bombs on the TTP in tribal Waziristan than to rein in its urban supporters, or to dismiss from state payroll those mosque leaders belonging to militant groups.

Very few Pakistanis have dared to criticise the country's increasingly powerful mosque establishment although they do not spare the Pakistan Army and the country's political leaders for their many shortcomings. For example, following the Army Public School massacre, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's promise to regulate the madressahs was immediately criticised as undoable. Had he instead suggested that Pakistan's mosques be brought under state control as in Saudi Arabia, Iran and several Muslim countries, it would have been dismissed as belonging to even beyond the undoable.

The state's timidity was vividly exposed in its handling of the 2007 bloody insurrection, launched from inside Islamabad's central mosque, Lal Masjid, barely a mile from the heart of Pakistan's government. It was a defining point in Pakistan's history. The story of the Lal Masjid insurrection, its bloody ending, and subsequent rebound is so critical to understanding the limitations of Pakistan's fight against terrorism that it deserves to be told once again.

In early January 2007, the two head clerics of the Lal Masjid demanded the immediate rebuilding of eight illegally constructed mosques knocked down by the civic authorities. Days later, an immediate enforcement of Sharia in Islamabad was demanded. Armed vigilante groups from Jamia Hafsa and nearby madressahs kidnapped ordinary citizens and policemen, threatened shopkeepers, burned CDs and videos, and repeated the demands of tribal militants fighting the Pakistan Army.

At a meeting held in Lal Masjid on April 6, 2007, it was reported that 100 guest religious leaders from across the country pledged to die for the cause of Islam and Sharia. On April 12, in an illegal FM broadcast from the mosque's own radio station, the clerics issued a threat to the government: "There will be suicide blasts in every nook and cranny of the country. We have weapons, grenades and we are expert in manufacturing bombs. We are not afraid of death…."

The brothers Abdul Aziz and Abdur Rashid Ghazi, who headed the Lal Masjid, had attracted a core of militant organisations around them, including the pioneer of suicide bombings in the region, Jaish-e-Mohammad. Their goal was to change Pakistan's culture. On April 12, 2007, Rashid Ghazi, a former student of Quaid-i-Azam University, broadcast the following chilling message to our female students:

"The government should abolish co-education. Quaid-i-Azam University has become a brothel. Its female professors and students roam in objectionable dresses. They will have to hide themselves in hijab otherwise they will be punished according to Islam…. Our female students have not issued the threat of throwing acid on the uncovered faces of women. However, such a threat could be used for creating the fear of Islam among sinful women. There is no harm in it."

For months, unhindered by Gen Musharraf's government, Lal Masjid operated a parallel government. Its minions received the Saudi Arabian ambassador on the mosque premises, and negotiated with the Chinese ambassador for the release of his country's kidnapped nationals. The showdown came in July 2007. Copious TV coverage showed armed madressah students with gas masks firing away into the dense smoke. The final push left 10 of Pakistan's crack SSG commandos dead, together with scores of madressah students. A tidal wave of suicide attacks - as promised by the cleric brothers - duly followed.

Amazingly Pakistan's civilian courts exonerated Abdul Aziz and Umme Hassan (his wife, who headed Jamia Hafsa). Ignoring TV footage, the court ruled that possession of heavy weaponry by the accused could not be proven. Today Abdul Aziz remains firmly ensconced in Lal Masjid and hundreds pray behind him. He has threatened to unleash a force of 8,000 students from nearby madressahs if he is again arrested. At the behest of the then chief justice Iftikhar Chaudhry, the destroyed Jamia Hafsa was awarded 20 kanals of choice land in sector H-11 of Islamabad for rebuilding. The land tycoon, Malik Riaz, lavishly reconstructed the damaged mosque.

How many other Abdul Aziz's does Pakistan have? Clerics who propagate Taliban and Daesh (Islamic State) views to their followers and who, like Aziz, are unmoved by the Peshawar massacre? No one knows even the number of mosques in Pakistan, where they are located, and, most importantly, what their khutbas (sermons) contain. This must change if Pakistan is to make any progress towards containing religious violence.

The first baby step towards bringing an estimated 100,000 to 200,000 mosques under state control requires tasking local authorities at the district and tehsil level with documentation: mosque locations, sizes, religious affiliation, and known sources of funding. The second is to monitor Friday sermons, a possibility offered by modern technology. Many worshippers have mobile phones capable of recording audio. A sermon, once recorded, could be uploaded to a website operated by the Ministry of Religious Affairs. Readers wishing to see how this might be done should visit http://imams.mashalbooks.org/ where sermons from scores of mosques in rural Punjab have been recorded, transcribed, and categorised for full and free public access.

A crisis is said to be a terrible thing to waste. Before the horror of the Peshawar atrocity fades from our collective memory let the state act decisively - albeit in small steps - to restore its right to regulate religious activities within its boundaries. Else the people of Pakistan shall continue to suffer terribly.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Prem » 15 Jan 2015 03:41

Coup Has already happened: Recall Ganja's Gobbled Glare With Kerry

Gen Raheel Sharif meets PM David Cameron

ISLAMABAD: Chief of Army Staff (COAS) Gen Raheel Sharif on Wednesday visited 10 Downing Street and met with British Prime Minister David Cameron.In a series of tweets, ISPR spokesman Asim Bajwa said the COAS raised issue of action against proscribed organisations, anti-Pakistan elements operating from outside Pakistan and measures to choke terror financing.The COAS also called on Secretary of Defence Michael Fallen and held extensive talks with Chief of the Defence Staff UK, Gen Sir Nicholas Houghton on regional security, stability in Afghanistan, mutual defence and security cooperation.He also met Home Office Permanent Secretary Mark Sedwill and Director General of the Office for Security and Counter-Terrorism (OSCT) Charles Farr and discussed intelligence sharing and terrorism cooperation.Sharif, who is on a three-day visit, also met with the National Security advisor Sir Kim Darroch.He was presented full guard of honour and was as accompanied by Chief of the Defence Staff UK, Gen Sir Nicholas Houghton.Pakistan's High Commissioner to UK Syed Ibne Abbas and senior British defence officials received the army chief upon his arrival.The COAS was expected to brief British leaders on Pakistan's war against terror and the ongoing Operation Zarb-i-Azl.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Agnimitra » 15 Jan 2015 04:10

Jhujar wrote:Coup Has already happened: Recall Ganja's Gobbled Glare With Kerry

Gen Raheel Sharif meets PM David Cameron

...the ongoing Operation Zarb-i-Azl.

:mrgreen:

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby ramana » 15 Jan 2015 04:38

What does that mean?

TSP is US's golem.

pankajs you are right in your perception.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Tuvaluan » 15 Jan 2015 05:07

ramana wrote:What does that mean?

TSP is US's golem.



Ramanaji, that is a yiddish word. Nice description of Pakistan, which is also China's Golem.

In Jewish tradition, the golem is most widely known as an artificial creature created by magic, often to serve its creator.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Vayutuvan » 15 Jan 2015 05:17

pankajs wrote:Would like others to comment on this or am I making a mountain of a molehill???

IMHO, no, you are not. In fact that "oh so charming" (I am not too fond of JFK's cred of liberality while bringing the world to the brink of nuclear war and total annihilation during bay of pigs) JFK made a comment one time that "We want India to win in Asia vis a vis China" (but better presidential rhetoric) but later on was "disappointed" that India threw out Portuguese from Goa using force and then proceeded to put India in the dock. The policy continued during Jhonson's presidency even after he purportedly said about IG that "she is the daughter of our Nehru" or some such but denied nuclear cover to India pushing us to develop the deterrent.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby shiv » 15 Jan 2015 05:20

Chandragupta wrote:What happens when IS turns to India?

Same thing that happened when Paki army and Taliban turned to India

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Prem » 15 Jan 2015 05:36

shiv wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:What happens when IS turns to India?Same thing that happened when Paki army and Taliban turned to India


Even though events are moving fast , eventually ISiSisi, PakISISisi etc provide once in Hajar Saal opportunity to even out few accounts and earn the title Jagatguru.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Gagan » 15 Jan 2015 07:42

AoA

:((

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Gagan » 15 Jan 2015 07:45

Pak railways zindabaad zindabaad !!!
Pak Cheen dosti zindabaad !!!
Cheeni rail engine murda...



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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Tuvaluan » 15 Jan 2015 07:53

Mr. Tarek Fatah, a Pakistani Canadian understands what pakiness is all about -- calls pakiness a state of mind "based on victimhood & a supremacist idea". Brilliant

"Hey @UncelTom1, you are not a 'peaceful Muslim' as u claim; you are Pakistani and that alone disqualifies U from being peaceful."

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby member_22733 » 15 Jan 2015 07:57

shiv wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:What happens when IS turns to India?

Same thing that happened when Paki army and Taliban turned to India


They dont have the numbers, but have weapon parity. If Modi succeeds, they wont have weapon parity and the numbers. If Modi does not succeed, they will have more numbers and also weapon parity in the future (2050s), we might be in deep doodoo in such a case.

Technologically, we need to be far far ahead of Islamic goons very soon since the Hindu population in sooth a$$ia region is bound to drop soon.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby SSridhar » 15 Jan 2015 12:22

* Breaking News *

TimesNow reports that JuD is 'banned' along with 'Haqqani Network' and a few other organizations.

We have to wait for clarity on the issue. But, if JuD is really banned, then certain questions arise.

1. What happens to the GoP theory all along that JuD was only a charitable organization?
2. What about the generous funds from the State for JuD?
3. Who now takes over the 'charitable institutions' like hospitals that the JuD was running?
4. Are the bank accounts and assets frozen? Or, like last time when LeT was banned in January 2002, the news was leaked to it and it cleaned up the accounts?
5. Does the ban apply all over Pakistan including FATA and PoK? The last ban specifically excluded these territories.
6. Will Pakistan now arrest Hafeez Saeed because he is wanted by the UN as well as India and the US.
7. What happens to the terror training camps of JuD? How can it be ensured that they are destroyed?
8. Will Pakistan ban the expected reincarnations of JuD?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Shreeman » 15 Jan 2015 12:45

http://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-ar ... sis-2015-1

What about a betishun for a green waal for keeping RAA ajints out? What is sauce for aj-hajj is kiliarly halal against al-kufr.

I bropose a wall-e-kufr(N) and wall-e-kufr(E) and wall-e-shia(W). Alhamid etc with halal imported takniki from saudi arapia under transfer-e-takniki.

Then Pakistan can repay china by building a wall-e-china anew, that is higher than mountains. The home of worlds best wall-es. That is the imaje we want. Ahead of saudis, more green than mekka and muddyna.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec

Postby Mahendra » 15 Jan 2015 12:51

Haa Haa, what next Bakistan bans the HoKo?


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