Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2015

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby member_23370 » 13 Feb 2015 19:42

Jaishankar is visiting all saarc nations right? Just treat porkis the same as other saarc nations and don't consider them as equal to India.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 13 Feb 2015 19:45

On that ... the simple metric will be how much time does he spend in each capital, how many meeting and how many minutes in meeting?

Chances are he will spend the maximum in slumbad ... and that means Bakis get the most importance. JS is supposed to be a straight shooter. Give him free hand and have him raise hell during the meeting and talk on nothing but Mumbai trial farce.

That in itself will change the optics of the meeting.
Last edited by pankajs on 13 Feb 2015 19:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 13 Feb 2015 19:49

Peregrine wrote:Long Article - very, very Intresting and Breathtaking - So posting in full. - X Posdted on IWT Thread

Pakistan braces for a water crisis

ISLAMABAD: Energy-starved Pakistanis, their economy battered by chronic fuel and electricity shortages, may soon have to contend with a new resource crisis: major water shortages, the Pakistani government warned this week.

A combination of global climate change and local waste and mismanagement have led to an alarmingly rapid depletion of Pakistan's water supply, said the minister for water and energy, Khawaja Muhammad Asif.

"Under the present situation, in the next six to seven years, Pakistan can be a water-starved country," Mr. Asif said in an interview, echoing a warning that he first issued at a news conference in Lahore this week.

The prospect of a major water crisis in Pakistan, even if several years distant, offers a stark reminder of a growing challenge in other poor and densely populated countries that are vulnerable to global climate change.

In Pakistan, it poses a further challenge to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, whose government has come under sharp criticism for failing to end the country's electricity crisis. In some rural areas, heavy rationing has meant that as little as four hours of electricity a day is available.

In the interview, Mr. Asif said the government had started to bring the electricity crisis under control, and predicted a return to a normal supply by 2017. But energy experts are less confident that such a turnaround is possible, given how long and complex the problem has proved to be.

Now the country's water supply looms as a resource challenge, intensified by Pakistan's enduring infrastructure and management problems.

Agriculture is a cornerstone of the Pakistani economy. The 2,000-mile-long Indus River, which rises in the Himalayas and spans the country, feeds a vast network of irrigation canals that line fields producing wheat, vegetables and cotton, all major sources of foreign currency. In the north, hydroelectric power stations are a cornerstone of the creaking power system.

A combination of melting glaciers, decreasing rainfall and chronic mismanagement by successive governments has put that water supply in danger, experts say.

In a report published in 2013, the Asian Development Bank described Pakistan as one of the most "water-stressed" countries in the world, with a water availability of 1,000 cubic meters per person per year — a fivefold drop since independence in 1947, and about the same level as drought-stricken Ethiopia.

"It is a very serious situation,"
said Pervaiz Amir, country director for the Pakistan Water Partnership. "I feel it is going to be more serious than the recent oil shortages."

Shortages of resources have climbed to the top of the political agenda in recent years. Fuel shortages last month, for which government officials blamed mismanagement by the national oil company, caused lengthy lines outside fuel stations that embarrassed the government at a time of low global oil prices.

Mr. Sharif's government was already grappling with the seemingly intractable electricity crisis, which regularly causes blackouts of 10 hours a day even in major cities. And Mr. Sharif has been visibly distracted by grueling political duels, with the opposition politician Imran Khan, who accuses him of stealing the 2013 election, and with powerful military leaders who have undermined his authority in key areas.

Mr. Asif, the water and energy minister, said the government had started to turn the corner. But he acknowledged that the country's resource problems were, to a large degree, endemic. "There is a national habit of extravagance," he said, noting that it extended across resource areas, whether gas, electricity or water.

"I will be very careful not to use the word 'drought,' but we are water stressed right now, and slowly, we are moving to be a water-starved country," he said.

Evidence of chronic water shortages have been painfully evident in some parts of Pakistan in recent years. A drought caused by erratic rainfall in Tharparkar, a desert area in southern Sindh Province, caused a humanitarian emergency in the region last year.

"The frequency of monsoon rains has decreased but their intensity has increased," said Mr. Amir of the Pakistan Water Partnership. "That means more water stress, particularly in winters."Therefore the Phloods

Water is also tied to nationalist, even jihadist, politics in Pakistan. For years, religious conservatives and Islamist militants have accused rival India, where the Indus River system rises, of constricting Pakistan's water supply.

Hafiz Saeed, the leader of the militant group that carried out the 2008 attacks in Mumbai, India, Lashkar-e-Taiba, regularly rails against Indian "water terrorism" during public rallies.

Mr. Asif said that contrary to such claims, India was not building reservoirs on rivers that flow into Pakistan. "We will never let it happen," he said, citing the Indus Water Treaty, an agreement between the two countries that was brokered by the World Bank and signed in the 1960s.

One major culprit in Pakistan's looming water crisis, experts say, is the country's inadequate water storage facilities. In India, about one-third of the water supply is stored in reservoirs, compared with just 9 percent in Pakistan, Amir said.

"We built our last dam 46 years ago," he said. "India has built 4,000 dams, with another 150 in the pipeline."

Experts say the country's chaotic policies are hurting its image in the eyes of Western donorswho could help alleviate the mounting resource crises.

"The biggest looming crisis is of governance, not water — which could make this country unlivable in the next few years," said Arshad H. Abbasi, a water and energy expert with the Sustainable Development and Policy Institute, a research group based in Islamabad.

Pakists say : We are not like you Evil Indian Hindus who have a bath in the moooooorning and then in the evennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnning. We Pakistanis bathe Dur Rooz Jumay Kay Jumay - Every Day on Friday, Every Day on Friday, Every Day on Friday.

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I hope this article is not being seen as towel-throwing or a sign of changing paki attitudes. If pakistan has a water crisis and becomes unlivable, that is very bad news for India, especially since we have not proved good at forecasting, planning and preparation.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 13 Feb 2015 19:56

LokeshC wrote:I am not putting a spin on it. I am just trying to be factual. In my opinion, talking about talks is also a mistake. Dont talk to Bakis, especially if its due to external pressure. It gives Bakis wet dreams of victory and it also gives an external entity a "well known path" to make India and Bakistan to talk.

If it were to me, then absolutely no talks with Bakistan. Period. I would hurt them and find ways to hurt them relentlessly until they themselves come to me and start begging on my terms.

If I were feeling big hearted, I will start talks only when I know that Bakistan will not imagine wild theories about why I decided to talk.

Talking to Pakistan now is the same old incoherence of policy that we have seen all along. Our policy is incoherent because there is no enduring guiding principle or strategic goal on our side. Just wanting to be left alone without being attacked is not a principle. It is just animal instinct.

It is worse than that, in fact. We don't even recognize the existence of such a thing as a guiding principle. So, when pakis loudly and consistently assert their guiding principle (Muslims should be rulers, and have to go back to being rulers of India, now that the British have left), we just laugh and ignore it. That is a mistake.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 13 Feb 2015 20:10

In a report published in 2013, the Asian Development Bank described Pakistan as one of the most "water-stressed" countries in the world, with a water availability of 1,000 cubic meters per person per year — a fivefold drop since independence in 1947.


Statistics from Pakistani government web-sites:
Pakistani population 1951: 33.7 million
Pakistani population 2013: 184 million

Population growth factor = 5.45.

Fresh water sources added by Pakistan 1951-2013 = zero.
Water mismanaged, losses due to deforestation, etc. > zero.

Therefore five-fold is an underestimate.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Peregrine » 13 Feb 2015 20:16

Peregrine wrote:Long Article - very, very Intresting and Breathtaking - So posting in full. - X Posdted on IWT Thread

Pakistan braces for a water crisis

Cheers Image

KLNMurthy wrote:I hope this article is not being seen as towel-throwing or a sign of changing paki attitudes. If pakistan has a water crisis and becomes unlivable, that is very bad news for India, especially since we have not proved good at forecasting, planning and preparation.


KLNMuthy Ji :

The post you refer to is a long one and as such I did not add my thoughts on the Repercussions of not only Cwapistan’s but also Bangladesh’s impeding Explosion of the Population Bomb and the depravation thereof on the Jaffer Abduls and Burka Biliquis – The Term Jaffer for Abdul is due to the statement “Jaffer ooper Jaffer Baitha Jaffer Khata Jata Thaa”. Herein it is Jaffer the Man riding Jaffer the Donkey was Eating Jaffer (Guava)

The calamity of Water Scarcity or Population Explosion or other natural cause will affect only India.

The Cwapistanis will not be able to go to Afghanistan or Iran or its Land of Stlongel than Steel, Mole Plecious than Eyes Fliend and Ilon Blothel. As such whether they be the Shais or Ahmedis or may be even Sunnis, they will all sweep cross the Indo-Cwapi Border in Millions not by the Year or by the Month but by the Day if not by the Hour!

Such is the reality which the present Government of India refuses to take cognizance of.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby arun » 13 Feb 2015 20:22

kish wrote:Gen. Machod Musharaf calls "Hinduism" as anti-human rights, that baastad was invited for "Leadership Summit"

Amaan-ki-Tamasha group get interviews from him. :x

The army remains deeply suspicious of India, a country that has beaten Pakistan in three conflicts since independence and played a critical role in the secession of Bangladesh from Pakistan in 1971. Musharraf insists he is not an “India hater”, but bristles at what he says is western bias towards Pakistan’s giant neighbour. “‘India is the greatest democracy, promoter of human rights and democratic culture’? All bullshit,” he said. “There is no human rights. The religion itself is anti-human rights. In the rural areas, if even the shadow of an untouchable goes on a pandit, that man can be killed.



Musharraf: Pakistan and India's backing for 'proxies' in Afghanistan must stop


And in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Mohammaddenism is such that “the religion itself is pro-human rights” so much so that news report of today’s Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden religion inspired sectarian slaughter which saw Mohammaddens of the minority Shia sect at prayer in a Mohammadden place of worship on the day of Mohammadenism’s Sabbath of Friday getting slaughtered by Sunni co-religionists is nothing but a Hindu, Jewish and Christist fabrication to malign Pakistan, Islam, Muslims and Musharraf himself :rotfl:.

Or may be nothing of the above and instead Musharraf will tell us that the demonstration of the IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan at the Hayatabad Mosque / Imambargah in Peshawar was nothing but a demonstration of Mohammaddenism’s pro-human rights ethos that allows suicide by blowing oneself up even in places filled with others worshipping :wink: :

Taliban suicide bomb and shooting attack on Peshawar mosque kills at least 19

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Paul » 13 Feb 2015 20:50

Punjab 54% of population 58% of army officer corps in 2005. KPK 13% of pop and 22% of army officer corps in 2005

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby krisna » 13 Feb 2015 21:21

hafeez the pig cannot squael any more in rallies per bakistan govt. :((

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Tuvaluan » 13 Feb 2015 21:22

While the GoI is not really intent on resuming diplomatic contact, C. Rajamohan resumes his usual vomit about reaching out to pakistan, like all the american mouthpieces in India.

As he reviews the state of bilateral relations with the Pakistani officials and political leadership, Dr. Jaishankar would want to test out the possibilities for instituting a new framework of engagement rather than simply return to status quo ante.

The significant change unfolding in the Subcontinent—both within the region and its international relations—demands that the two sides try and develop a fresh approach to the troubled relationship between India and Pakistan.


What that this analyst/exbert for the ORF figured out about pakistan that he thinks will make any interaction with Pakistan benefit India -- this kind of dimwitted cr@p is what got India into trouble with pakistan the past 50 times this was pushed by third-rate morons who call themselves FP experts in Indian "think tanks" run by the babucracy.


http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/modis-cricket-diplomacy-renewing-political-contact-with-pakistan/

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 13 Feb 2015 21:39

arun wrote:
The army remains deeply suspicious of India, a country that has beaten Pakistan in three conflicts since independence and played a critical role in the secession of Bangladesh from Pakistan in 1971. Musharraf insists he is not an “India hater”, but bristles at what he says is western bias towards Pakistan’s giant neighbour. “‘India is the greatest democracy, promoter of human rights and democratic culture’? All bullshit,” he said. “There is no human rights. The religion itself is anti-human rights. In the rural areas, if even the shadow of an untouchable goes on a pandit, that man can be killed.



Musharraf: Pakistan and India's backing for 'proxies' in Afghanistan must stop

And in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Mohammaddenism is such that “the religion itself is pro-human rights” so much so that news report of today’s Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden religion inspired sectarian slaughter which saw Mohammaddens of the minority Shia sect at prayer in a Mohammadden place of worship on the day of Mohammadenism’s Sabbath of Friday getting slaughtered by Sunni co-religionists is nothing but a Hindu, Jewish and Christist fabrication to malign Pakistan, Islam, Muslims and Musharraf himself :rotfl:.

Or may be nothing of the above and instead Musharraf will tell us that the demonstration of the IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan at the Hayatabad Mosque / Imambargah in Peshawar was nothing but a demonstration of Mohammaddenism’s pro-human rights ethos that allows suicide by blowing oneself up even in places filled with others worshipping :wink: :


Getting into a Hinduism-Islam open fly-torn shirt type of argument with a paki specimen like Musharaf is like the proverbial wrestling with a pig--you get dirty and the pig likes it.

I think the best value that we can get out of statements like Musharaf's about Hinduism is to gain further insight into how the paki mind works vis-a-vis India.

They are stuck in a pre-1947 timewarp, with an exaggerated notion of baahmin-bania oppression of shudders and untouchables (while simultaneously looking down on the same groups themselves). By and large pakjabi as well as ashraf-muhajir RAPEs are clueless about egalitarian democracy and its effect in dissolving social distinctions: if everyone has exactly one vote, it won't be long before everyone becomes equally sociopolitically valuable in very crucial ways, but the entire motivation for creating pakistan was to get away from a universe in which a shudder or untouchable would have the same political rights and political value as a TFTA ashraf.

To put it in a vulgar and offensive way, the unproductive, anachronistic useless feudal waste product of 1947 India was violently excreted and went to its rightful place, namely pakistan, so that the rest of the Indian organism can go about developing a normal existence. Utterances like Musharaf's are what can be expected when shit becomes sentient and imagines that it can think like a human.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Prasad » 13 Feb 2015 22:12

We'll there really hasn't been any change on the ground. What would we gain by opening up talks again? Even the usual media circus seems to be waiting and not wailing like they did initially.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 13 Feb 2015 22:31

Prasad wrote:We'll there really hasn't been any change on the ground. What would we gain by opening up talks again? Even the usual media circus seems to be waiting and not wailing like they did initially.


I took a look at the contents of the announcement: Looks like Modi sarkar's approach is to lump TSP with saarc nations, Jaishanker is going to all saarc nations including (i.e., not excluding) pakistan. It is being spun by media on both sides as "Jaishankar is going to Pakistan." That kind of spin probably suits the sarkar. They can keep their options open--tell the US and whoever, well, look, we wants to be friends with everyone, but it is up to each one to return the friendliness. If anyone attacks us, or does hostile things like talk to our separatists, we'll defend ourselves, and in that case can't be expected to be talking to them.

Not as harsh a policy towards TSP as I would choose, but at least it is some kind of consistent policy and leaves enough wiggle room to pound the ba**rds if they get out hand.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Amber G. » 13 Feb 2015 22:43

A_Gupta wrote:
Statistics from Pakistani government web-sites:
Pakistani population 1951: 33.7 million
Pakistani population 2013: 184 million
.


Just curious, how Pakistani government deals with the idea that Pakistan lost half of its population in 1971. (Or they just call west Bangaladesh as pakistan now?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby disha » 13 Feb 2015 23:04

pankajs wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:Positive spin on Modi's move:
http://www.firstpost.com/world/howzatt- ... 97333.html

If I were the BakMil, I would start another round of border violation, at least make huge noise about heavy exchange of fire on the border, just before the Indian FS lands in Bakistan and test Modi's "You cannot hear each other while bombs are going off and bullets are flying"


However where will they get gas to transport all the material to the border? Just pindi chana and grass will not be enough...

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Gus » 13 Feb 2015 23:15

notion of baahmin-bania oppression of shudders and untouchables (while simultaneously looking down on the same groups themselves).



if you ask him, he will say - not a problem anymore, islam has already addressed these issues.

OT - but I see an interesting parallel between US and Pakis.

massa also lectures other countries of equality, freedom etc - because they are already past those issues. inequality to blacks? not a problem anymore, it is already addressed by civil rights movement and laws. voter intimidation?

this is something hindu groups are only beginning now, in a somewhat crude way..

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby disha » 13 Feb 2015 23:24

pankajs wrote:On that ... the simple metric will be how much time does he spend in each capital, how many meeting and how many minutes in meeting?

Chances are he will spend the maximum in slumbad ... and that means Bakis get the most importance. JS is supposed to be a straight shooter. Give him free hand and have him raise hell during the meeting and talk on nothing but Mumbai trial farce.

That in itself will change the optics of the meeting.


Interesting., the time Jaishankar spends in Bakistan is considered as the optics of the meeting (and not the chronos of the meeting!!!). What JaiShankar does in his private pakistan is his business and how much time he wants to spend in there is also his business. However the chronos of the meeting is not calculated by how much time Jaishankar spends in Bakistan, but what message is delivered to Sharif.

Nobody noticed that., the borders are relatively quiet (remember the intensity just few months back) and two if Jaishankar shares the same message that we are ready to talk if you are ready to talk to us (and not to hurriyat) - then let us talk (and BTW, here is another way to deal with the Sharif in uniform)., in essence - Modi just gave a very long rope to Bakistan to hang themselves with. In the meantime, Modi the shrewd politician he is have basically pointed out to Bangladesh and Sri Lanka that their future is with India (hey we not just host your players, we celebrate and treat them well too).

Further, all the SAARC nations at the periphery of India has been anointed as vassal states of India.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby abhijitm » 14 Feb 2015 00:04

Peregrine wrote:Long Article - very, very Intresting and Breathtaking - So posting in full. - X Posdted on IWT Thread

Pakistan braces for a water crisis

Pakis would be fine as long as isloo and lahore has water.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby abhijitm » 14 Feb 2015 00:24

A_Gupta wrote:
In a report published in 2013, the Asian Development Bank described Pakistan as one of the most "water-stressed" countries in the world, with a water availability of 1,000 cubic meters per person per year — a fivefold drop since independence in 1947.


Statistics from Pakistani government web-sites:
Pakistani population 1951: 33.7 million
Pakistani population 2013: 184 million

On what basis?
From 1980 pakistani rats are constantly multiplying (officially) at the rate of 3% per year. In 1981 their population was 83 million. 1991 it reached 114 million. This is growth rate of 3.3% p.a. There is no sign of them slowing down. In fact this water crisis supports the theory. Means in 2014 pakistani population should be at least 240 million.

Even if we trust their last official census of 1998, which was 137 million, and adjust the growth 3% still in 2014 the population should be 220 million.

In my opinion number of pakis as of now are 250 millions minimum.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Peregrine » 14 Feb 2015 00:25

krisna wrote:hafeez the pig cannot squael any more in rallies per bakistan govt. :((


krisna Ji :

Any source please?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Prem » 14 Feb 2015 00:43

abhijitm wrote:On what basis?
From 1980 pakistani rats are constantly multiplying (officially) at the rate of 3% per year. In 1981 their population was 83 million. 1991 it reached 114 million. This is growth rate of 3.3% p.a. There is no sign of them slowing down. In fact this water crisis supports the theory. Means in 2014 pakistani population should be at least 240 million. Even if we trust their last official census of 1998, which was 137 million, and adjust the growth 3% still in 2014 the population should be 220 million. In my opinion number of pakis as of now are 250 millions minimum.


Poaqroaches' annual growth rate is actually 3.7% . Their number now close to 275 Million and may double these numbers by 2030. With GDP of 300 Billion and literacy around 18 % , paki are on the path to fulfill their destiny of being first LOLdesh in the world. Na Paani, Na Pyaz , only Mush Mey Khaaj, shall remain Paki Andaz.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 14 Feb 2015 01:10

The best info. we have is the preliminary results of the 2011 Pakistani census, which showed a total of 192 million. So why did I put 184 million in 2013? Just to show that even with the most conservative numbers, Pakistan's water crisis is essentially because of population growth, and Pakistan's water crisis is underestimated.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Tuvaluan » 14 Feb 2015 01:19

AFAIK, the pakis have not desilted their rivers in decades, and all the paki jernails and ex-military men who were awarded fertile lands for their service steal all the water for their farms, so most of the water is consumed before it reaches downstream.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Peregrine » 14 Feb 2015 01:29

A_Gupta wrote:The best info. we have is the preliminary results of the 2011 Pakistani census, which showed a total of 192 million. So why did I put 184 million in 2013? Just to show that even with the most conservative numbers, Pakistan's water crisis is essentially because of population growth, and Pakistan's water crisis is underestimated.

A_Gupta Ji :

Population shoots up by 47 percent since 1998 : March 29, 2012

From the above Article :
As compared to the population of 130,857,717 in 1998, the overall population was recorded at 192,288,944 in 2011 all over Pakistan, excluding three districts of Balochistan (Khuzdar, Kech and Panjgur) Agency of Fata (South Waziristan) as well as Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJ&K) and Gilgit-Baltistan.

However, with the inclusion of population of Azad Jammu and Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan, the population of the country would reach 197,361,691 in 2011 against 134,714,017 in 1998, showing an increase of 46.5 percent.


Please base your Figures on the Population in 2011 bring 197,361,691.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby member_22733 » 14 Feb 2015 02:29

Power of the exponent: 60 years population went up by 6 times (180 million) . In the next 60/6 = 10 years, the population will grow by approx 180 - 200 mil. We are looking at 2 times more scarcity than today in a matter of 12 years.

i.e. Bakistan will be in real deep Bakistan when India is entering its golden age (if Modi manages well). What a curse on my beloved country to be surrounded by such miserable $hit-holes.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby member_22733 » 14 Feb 2015 02:38

BTW:

Is there anyway to estimate the growth rate divided by religion (i.e.) Muslims: ie. Sunni, Abrahamic Dhimmis i.e: Christists, Abrahamic non Muslims (Shia, Ahmedia, Hazaras etc). and plain infidels : Hindus, Sikhs.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 14 Feb 2015 03:10

^^^ Since the second British census till 1991 the pattern was that the proportion of Muslims in the subcontinent went up by 1% each census. I had compiled the below before the 1991 census:

Code: Select all

Some population data:
( please take these to be indicative only; for all
the caveats on the data please refer to the original publications )


***
Undivided India
Percent of Total Population in Each Religion 1881-1941

                  Hindu    Muslim

1881              78.09    19.97
1891              74.24    20.41
1901              72.87    21.88
1911              71.68    22.39
1921              70.73    23.23
1931              70.67    23.49
1941              69.46    24.28   [1]


***
***

[2]
           Millions (1988 est.)     Hindu   Muslim (1982)
India        796.60                  78.8%    11.6%
Bangladesh   104.53                  12.7     85.9
Pakistan     105.41                   1.3     96.8

adding another line to the first table:

India + Bangladesh + Pakistan

                 Hindu    Muslim
1980s             63.8      28.2

***
 [1] : Davis Kingsley, The Population of India and Pakistan, ~1951.
 [2] : Economist Book of Vital World Statistics, 1990

***

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby SSridhar » 14 Feb 2015 06:29

India-Pakistan talks a fallout of BJP’s Delhi election debacle? - Indrani Bagchi, ToI

The headline is meant to sensationalize and is completely meaningless. But, not the rest of the article.
What prompted the NDA government to engage Pakistan now? Prime Minister Narendra Modi's apparently unscheduled phone conversation with his Pakistani counterpart Nawaz Sharif and a promise to send foreign secretary S Jaishankar to Islamabad signals a resumption of engagement that reinforces his neighbourhood focus.

A sign that the frosty atmosphere between India and Pakistan may be changing came on Thursday when MEA spokesman Syed Akbaruddin tweeted that India expected 173 fishermen to be released by Pakistan next week. (Pakistan holds about 576 Indian fishermen in their custody).

"Expectation of return soon. We have been informed that 173 Indian prisoners are to be released and repatriated from Pakistan on 16 February,"

The second sign was a conversation between Sharif and US President Barack Obama.

READ ALSO: Cricket gives another chance to India-Pak ties

The official line from the White House said, "The president discussed his recent visit to India, and noted the United States supports all efforts by both nations to improve ties." In response, Sharif said India should not become a permanent member of the UN security council.

The only legacy of the months of silence that is likely to stay is the condition on Pakistan-Hurriyat talks. India is unlikely to climb down from that position, which will be resisted by Pakistan. But on this, the Modi government is expected to stay firm.

Pakistan is also likely to push for the resumption of the composite dialogue, but India is not expected to reopen talks in the old format anymore. Jaishankar's talks with his Pakistani counterpart is likely to cover all relevant issues but India will resist going back to the old strait-jacketed format.

Balancing his outreach to Pakistan, the Modi government has retained its focus on terrorism. Modi on Thursday stressed Pakistan's role in fomenting the menace.

Addressing governors, Modi was quoted as saying, "The expanding footprint of extremist and terrorist organizations in Pakistan, and their link with terror activities in India, is a major security challenge."


The government's sudden decision to reach out to Pakistan took many by surprise. But the timing is indicative of a couple of things: First, the desire to change the dominant negative narrative of the Modi government in the aftermath of the Delhi elections. The move will be popular with the constituency that has been uncomfortable with Modi's decision in August 2014 to call off foreign secretary talks. {Who is this constituency and why should they be satisfied?}

Secondly, it coincides with reports that BJP and PDP have struck a power-sharing deal in Jammu & Kashmir.

Modi government's decision to take a tough line with Pakistan in August was also connected to the political alignment prior to the state elections in J&K.


The return to engagement by the Modi government has been in line with the outreach efforts of previous governments. Both the Vajpayee and Manmohan Singh governments have used more or less similar tactics to re-engage Pakistan after periods of frosty ties.


India must realize a few things wrt Pakistan:
  • TSP has an enduring hostility with us and it will NEVER change
  • Pakistan will continue to use terrorism against us in spite of what it says after the Peshawar incident
  • We should not make any distinction between TSPA/ISI on the one hand and rest of TSP on the other. They are all in it together.
  • No appeasement has ever worked in history and Pakistan will not be an exception. For every transgression by Pakistan, military economic or political etc, we must hit it back more forcefully
  • China will not let go of Pakistan in the immediate future even in the unlikeliest event of the US doing so
  • TSP is causing a drain on Indian resources
  • TSP in its present form and content must be dismantled before India can achieve its goals

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby partha » 14 Feb 2015 06:33

^
Is that a new spin? That Delhi election result is the reason for restarting dialogue? That's worse than ICC WC spin. It's insulting to Delhi voters.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Tuvaluan » 14 Feb 2015 06:44

From the IWT thread from SSridhar's excerpt from an old BRM article:

Its frivolous objections to Indian projects and a general unwillingness to engage India constructively are partly to force India to amend the IWT to accommodate the emerging patterns of water use in Pakistan, such as water sharing during periods of shortage, a situation not envisaged in the Treaty


See, the paki mofos are actually partially clever, like a partially pregnant woman, but they don't realize who they are dealing with.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Tuvaluan » 14 Feb 2015 06:47

The government's sudden decision to reach out to Pakistan took many by surprise. But the timing is indicative of a couple of things: First, the desire to change the dominant negative narrative of the Modi government in the aftermath of the Delhi elections. The move will be popular with the constituency that has been uncomfortable with Modi's decision in August 2014 to call off foreign secretary talks.


I can think of two "constituencies" that are unhappy: the businessmen who get to make money from pakis and the bureaucrats who seem to be intent on pushing a love-fest with pakistan for some reason. Seriously disappointing to see NaMo continue with worthless sh!tty pakistan policy followed by MMS and his ilk, though one can see why this is being done, if one assumes that the current regime is not braindead and worthless like the UPA regime, at least not the current NSA.

This could be a media creation of a non-issue, if we recall the recent SAARC debacle where pakistan took a cr@p on whatever NaMo planned -- this set of bilateral talks with Pakis and the rest of the SAARC members may just be to seal the final shape of who is in and who is out in terms of trade relations with India. Pakis being the brainless worthless turds they are, we can expect them to sp1t on whatever the Indian FS has to offer them, so this will just reinforce whatever happened in the recent SAARC meet.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby SSridhar » 14 Feb 2015 07:31

Distinct thaw in India-Pakistan ties - Suhasini Haider, The Hindu
The Hindu has learnt that in late December, Mr. Basit met Mr. Doval to discuss the possibility of resuming talks. On Wednesday, the govern-ment, for the first time, sent a Minister, Petroleum Minister Dharmendra Pradhan, to Islamabad to attend a meeting on the ‘TAPI’ gas pipeline that was chaired by Mr. Sharif. Mr. Pradhan met with Mr. Sharif separately too.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Tuvaluan » 14 Feb 2015 07:42

I guess there is some sort of disease that makes politicians and others kiss and make up with Pakistan once they are in New Delhi, ignoring Pakistan' pefidy and cussedness. This current regime seems to be following the same playbook as MMS and everyone else before them -- all written by the worthless, self-serving bureaucracy in New Delhi. Thought AD and NaMo would be different from Sonia/MMS, but apparently not, though personally, I am less than inclined to believe any of the cretinous drool from Suhasini Haider or anyone from The Hindu.

It may well be that the Humphrey Appleby types in the Indian babucracy in New Delhi are the actual villains when it comes to Indian govt. reactions to pakistan. I would like to see what the PM and NSA actually achieve by reopening talks with the pakis.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Shreeman » 14 Feb 2015 08:03

Money talks. What did you expect from the disposition -- 5 years of quiet?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Singha » 14 Feb 2015 08:10

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 231035.cms

ISLAMABAD: Energy-starved Pakistanis, their economy battered by chronic fuel and electricity shortages, may soon have to contend with a new resource crisis: major water shortages, the Pakistani government warned this week.

A combination of global climate change and local waste and mismanagement have led to an alarmingly rapid depletion of Pakistan's water supply, said the minister for water and energy, Khawaja Muhammad Asif.

"Under the present situation, in the next six to seven years, Pakistan can be a water-starved country," Mr. Asif said in an interview, echoing a warning that he first issued at a news conference in Lahore this week.

The prospect of a major water crisis in Pakistan, even if several years distant, offers a stark reminder of a growing challenge in other poor and densely populated countries that are vulnerable to global climate change.

In Pakistan, it poses a further challenge to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, whose government has come under sharp criticism for failing to end the country's electricity crisis. In some rural areas, heavy rationing has meant that as little as four hours of electricity a day is available.

In the interview, Mr. Asif said the government had started to bring the electricity crisis under control, and predicted a return to a normal supply by 2017. But energy experts are less confident that such a turnaround is possible, given how long and complex the problem has proved to be.

Now the country's water supply looms as a resource challenge, intensified by Pakistan's enduring infrastructure and management problems.

Agriculture is a cornerstone of the Pakistani economy. The 2,000-mile-long Indus River, which rises in the Himalayas and spans the country, feeds a vast network of irrigation canals that line fields producing wheat, vegetables and cotton, all major sources of foreign currency. In the north, hydroelectric power stations are a cornerstone of the creaking power system.

A combination of melting glaciers, decreasing rainfall and chronic mismanagement by successive governments has put that water supply in danger, experts say.

In a report published in 2013, the Asian Development Bank described Pakistan as one of the most "water-stressed" countries in the world, with a water availability of 1,000 cubic meters per person per year — a fivefold drop since independence in 1947, and about the same level as drought-stricken Ethiopia.


"It is a very serious situation," said Pervaiz Amir, country director for the Pakistan Water Partnership. "I feel it is going to be more serious than the recent oil shortages."

Shortages of resources have climbed to the top of the political agenda in recent years. Fuel shortages last month, for which government officials blamed mismanagement by the national oil company, caused lengthy lines outside fuel stations that embarrassed the government at a time of low global oil prices.

Mr. Sharif's government was already grappling with the seemingly intractable electricity crisis, which regularly causes blackouts of 10 hours a day even in major cities. And Mr. Sharif has been visibly distracted by grueling political duels, with the opposition politician Imran Khan, who accuses him of stealing the 2013 election, and with powerful military leaders who have undermined his authority in key areas.

Mr. Asif, the water and energy minister, said the government had started to turn the corner. But he acknowledged that the country's resource problems were, to a large degree, endemic. "There is a national habit of extravagance," he said, noting that it extended across resource areas, whether gas, electricity or water.

"I will be very careful not to use the word 'drought,' but we are water stressed right now, and slowly, we are moving to be a water-starved country," he said.

Evidence of chronic water shortages have been painfully evident in some parts of Pakistan in recent years. A drought caused by erratic rainfall in Tharparkar, a desert area in southern Sindh Province, caused a humanitarian emergency in the region last year.

"The frequency of monsoon rains has decreased but their intensity has increased," said Mr. Amir of the Pakistan Water Partnership. "That means more water stress, particularly in winters."

Water is also tied to nationalist, even jihadist, politics in Pakistan. For years, religious conservatives and Islamist militants have accused rival India, where the Indus River system rises, of constricting Pakistan's water supply.

Hafiz Saeed, the leader of the militant group that carried out the 2008 attacks in Mumbai, India, Lashkar-e-Taiba, regularly rails against Indian "water terrorism" during public rallies.

Mr. Asif said that contrary to such claims, India was not building reservoirs on rivers that flow into Pakistan. "We will never let it happen," he said, citing the Indus Water Treaty, an agreement between the two countries that was brokered by the World Bank and signed in the 1960s.

One major culprit in Pakistan's looming water crisis, experts say, is the country's inadequate water storage facilities. In India, about one-third of the water supply is stored in reservoirs, compared with just 9 percent in Pakistan, Amir said.


"We built our last dam 46 years ago," he said. "India has built 4,000 dams, with another 150 in the pipeline."

Experts say the country's chaotic policies are hurting its image in the eyes of Western donors who could help alleviate the mounting resource crises.

"The biggest looming crisis is of governance, not water — which could make this country unlivable in the next few years," said Arshad H. Abbasi, a water and energy expert with the Sustainable Development and Policy Institute, a research group based in Islamabad.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Singha » 14 Feb 2015 08:12

^^ great news for pakistanis, they are finally going to look like saudia arabia (but minus the oil wealth)

pure islam demands the focus and piety that only desert sands can provide.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Tuvaluan » 14 Feb 2015 08:14

I am ambivalent about the intent and meaning of this response, and certainly not going to go by Suhasini Haider's interpretation of events.

All of this SAARC drama and wishing cricket good wishes to Nawaz Sharif seems to be moving towards finalizing what was initiated at the SAARC summit, without giving the impression that the pakis are being sidelined or left out -- the enormous whine from the pakis is a strong reason to not ignore pakis, and pretend to give them an ear without really giving them one. If the pakis want to play ball, that is fine, and if not, that is fine too, as the rest of the SAARC members are more important than the pakis.

Have always been suspicious of Suhasini Haider's judgement when it comes to pakis or foreign affairs in the region -- she has been terribly wrong more times than I can remember. In any case, whether the GoI actually makes moves to talk to pakis or just creates some drama for appearances sake, it is not going to change paki intentions and plans with respect to India, so it may not really matter in the end. Good part is that we will all know what the reality is a couple of months from now.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Prem » 14 Feb 2015 10:45

Ex Indian EC Qureshi slapping Paki with 10 fingers

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Harish » 14 Feb 2015 10:46

Maybe it's just me, but Modiji appears to be gushing goodwill in all directions - including toward the toilet. As someone who was repeatedly denied a visa to the US for years, why did he have to invite that country's President for the R-Day function, hain? He could have cold-shouldered the US for an year or two before reaching out, thereby sending the Amrikhan chaddis in a twist for a while atleast. But no. He just had to call up Obama like on the second day and invite him over. To me, that demonstrates a obsequious attitude, not a forgiving one.

And the "personal rapport" crap that went on between Obama and Modiji - I found it nauseating. Realpolitik is not based on personal rapport. It is all well to have a good rapport with a powerful world leader, but to naively believe that will change the power equations between two vastly unequal nations is just wishful thinking, one I hope Modiji does not subscribe to. Besides, personal rapport cuts both ways: now that Modiji has declared himeself on first-name terms with Barack, all the latter had to do was call up his dear friend Narendra and casually ask him to resume dialogue with our terrorist neighbor, and there you go, you cannot really say no, because, you know, you are such close BFFs.

No questions were asked about America's utterly unjustifiable denial of visa to Modiji, and no explanations were received. We have already forgiven, and moving on.

Modiji should closely observe (and emulate) Putin - a leader of substance with a spine of steel who places his country's interests above everything else, even if it brings him in conflict with leaders all over the world (remember Abbott's threat to "shirtfront" Putin?). No spineless personal rapport stuff going on here, as does not have to be. IN the end neither US, nor Australia, nor the poodle, or even Germany could really change Russia's course on Ukraine.

Why cant India's toughest leader stand up to the US against terror-sponsoring Pakistan? Pakistan, to its credit, has consistently said it will NEVER support India's just ambitions to enter the UNSC. I credit them with a stronger resolve and a better understanding of their own national interests. No greasy friendship stuff here.

It is no consolation that India under Modiji will act with greater resolve against the most egregious acts of terrorism such as Mumbai 26/11. Maybe we will, but to me that does not demonstrate hard-nosed realpolitik - just a thrashing of the arms and legs when presented with a painful stimulus. Tell me we are building capabilities, overt and covert, with focused intent, in pursuit of our critical national interest of punishing Pakistan and taking it toward its logical conclusion - dismemberment - and I shall credit Modiji with a refined understanding of national interest. Then all that goodwill becomes an instrument of the polity, and therefore admirable. Until that becomes evident, I shall assume the opposite.

I hope time proves me wrong. I do appreciate that Modiji's resolve to revive the tanked economy is the most influential thing he can do for India's future, but that alone will NOT save India. We will just end up carrying Pakistan on our backs. Because we can, and because they asked nicely.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby partha » 14 Feb 2015 10:56

Harish wrote:Maybe it's just me, but Modiji appears to be gushing goodwill in all directions - including toward the toilet. As someone who was repeatedly denied a visa to the US for years, why did he have to invite that country's President for the R-Day function, hain?

Because he is the Prime Minister of India now. He should do what he thinks is right for the country and he did just that. Whether he got visa or not a decade ago should not matter.


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