Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2015

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby a_bharat » 25 Mar 2015 04:58

KLNMurthy wrote:
a_bharat wrote:Modi needs to show clarity of thought. He should not give the impression of being confused handling the pakis. His initial approach was good and he should stick to it. Respecting the sentiment of the nation is more important than doing things that might be expedient for whatever reason unknown to general public.

That's a good one. BRF amateurs are going to give Modi lessons in "clarity of thought."

Sir, BRF pro, my intent was not to give any lessons to Modi. He may very well have clarity of thought, but that is not the impression one gets from Govt actions. Govt loses credibility and respect if it changes its stance month to month.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby shiv » 25 Mar 2015 05:19

a_bharat wrote:Modi needs to show clarity of thought. He should not give the impression of being confused handling the pakis. His initial approach was good and he should stick to it. Respecting the sentiment of the nation is more important than doing things that might be expedient for whatever reason unknown to general public.

We also need to display clarity of thought as much as Modi. A good leader will not necessarily pander to the sentiment of a nation especially when that sentiment might be totally misplaced because of lack of information or media misinformation. After a leader is elected - imagined national sentiment cannot be allowed to micromanage his every move.

When you get the idea that the government is changing its stand from month to month - that idea comes from the media. So you trust the media enough to question Modi's ability to manage. If you trust the media as telling the truth with absolute accuracy, Modi would have been indicted and punished long ago for actions that the media accused him of doing. Why don't we get back to that?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Shreeman » 25 Mar 2015 05:34

shiv,

A minister of defense is not a diplomat or deal with foreign affairs. Why then do you make a symbol out of VK Singh? There is neither reason nor rhyme that has been presented. Or did I miss it?

It is a valid question.

The Bakistan policy has seen an about face. There can never be a mature discussion in the media. So where do you talk about it?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Tuvaluan » 25 Mar 2015 05:38

The media is definitely going overboard in its interpretation of everything said or tweeted by VK Singh -- and the lying media has gone so far as to make up news about a clash between Modi and VKS with the latter resigning from his power (read the items in Indian Express for example). Absolutely do not trust the Indian media, and especially the Indian English media -- bunch of lying scum that misleads the public for the most part.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby a_bharat » 25 Mar 2015 05:44

shiv wrote:We also need to display clarity of thought as much as Modi. A good leader will not necessarily pander to the sentiment of a nation especially when that sentiment might be totally misplaced because of lack of information or media misinformation. After a leader is elected - imagined national sentiment cannot be allowed to micromanage his every move.

I agree with "imagined national sentiment cannot be allowed to micromanage his every move."
But, do you seriously think that Indians' sentiment/perception of Pakistan's perfidy is misplaced?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby RamaY » 25 Mar 2015 05:51

India didn't severe diplomatic ties with Pakistan. So it can & will engage in general & symbolic platforms, such as Pakistan formation day. This is different from working on a given issue, any issue.

I think Sri VKS is selected on purpose. I think it's because he is ex Army Chief. I think it's a message to Pakistan that it will have to deal with India Army on ground or in meetings. That Pakistan has to make Indian Army comfortable first before any engagement with Indian public is allowed.

It would have been a risky proposition with people like Adm. Ramdas, who turned in to a WKK. Sri VKS is not that kind, based on his past squrimishes

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Prem » 25 Mar 2015 06:11

RamaY wrote:To be fair, it is Qatari Flag.
Paki Media is twin brother of DDM.


Paki putting up wrong Flag to welcome the guest is not a surprise and it is not the first time they have done this mistake. Inbreeding induced retardness curve must have now arrived on inflection point.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby member_22733 » 25 Mar 2015 06:12

^^^ Correct. Check out the Czech Flag incident in Al-Bakistan.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Prem » 25 Mar 2015 06:24

Abb kahe Ko Royeee,Gubo jo Hovee. Sunega Nye Koi Terri Prathanaa,Chahe kitna Bhi Royee
Rewriting the Paki script

Aurangzeb died in 1707 and within a space of 32 years the Timurid Empire, mighty in its time, could not withstand the invasion of the Persian king, Nadir Shah, who ransacked Delhi and carried off its treasures, including the Peacock Throne and the Kohinoor diamond. A daughter of the Mughal emperor Muhammad Shah Rangila was taken by a son of Nadir Shah as his wife. Thousands of girls, both Muslim and Hindu, went as slave girls. Afghanistan and Punjab were detached from the Mughal Empire.The Sikhs were a rising power in Punjab, there were rebellions elsewhere, and the British had established a foothold in Bengal. Muslim power in Hindustan was thus on the decline, the days of its glory over. Paradoxically, the arrival of the British and the establishment of their Raj helped to arrest the process of this decline. The Sikh kingdom of Lahore was not defeated by Muslims; it was crushed by the British. And it were the British who lent a ready ear to the very loyal and almost obsequious plea of the Muslim League, when a delegation of Muslim grandees waited on Lord Minto in Shimla in 1905, for consideration and special treatment.The concern of the Muslim community, or its leading torch-bearers, in the years leading up to the Pakistan resolution in1940 was less freedom and liberation from foreign rule and more the fear of Hindu domination. It was not about kicking the British out of India. It was about the morning after, about what would happen once the British had gone. Not to put too fine a point on it, the Pakistan movement was thus born out of a sense of fear and foreboding. And that fear – despite our missiles, tanks and nuclear capability – seems not to have left Pakistan’s decision-making circles even after the passage of all these years.The Chinese communists did away with such symbols of the old China as the pigtail and the clothes worn in the old days. Ataturk did away with the fez, that symbol of traditional Turkish society, and decreed that even the Turkish peasant tilling the land would wear western clothes. Look at any gathering of the 1947 Muslim League leadership. The paladins are the very pictures of caution and respectability, on their faces not a trace of boldness or anything out of the ordinary. .
The Kashmir war, once begun, should have been prosecuted with vigour. Srinagar was there for the taking, defenceless and open. But the tribesmen tarried and there weren’t enough officers with the requisite ability or audacity to grab that opportunity.The distribution of evacuee property – admittedly not an easy task – could have been undertaken on different lines, each incoming migrant getting one small house or a portion of a house. But this became a scam, false claims being submitted and a race started for the grabbing and accumulation of property. Of all the legacies of independence and Partition this has proved to be the most enduring, the accumulation of property by fair means or foul the leading symbol of the new state.And Pakistan entered into alliances with America and became a pawn, a stooge, in the emerging cold war. Pakistan’s leaders – the bureaucrats and feudalists sitting in its councils – did not have the imagination to steer an independent path for the new country. The achkan-wearing and poetry-spouting leaders of the Muslim community were afraid in undivided Hindustan. Fear and insecurity remained their defining hallmarks even when the new state was formed.But all this is past and done. This is a country of 200 million Fowls. It deserves better. It deserves to step into the modern age. Granted that there is no Ataturk around and no Chinese communist party, and the political class just can’t free itself from its conservative and reactionary outlook. But are there no progressive elements left in this decrepit society? Is all hope lost? Is there no way forward?
No, our prospects can’t be that bleak. Isn’t the army trying to follow new directions? It hasn’t discarded all its prejudices or pet theories but a beginning is being made. How long before the rest of the nation becomes serious about national renewal?We can’t remain the inheritors of a dead civilisation. We can’t keep mouthing the old inanities. We can’t keep taking refuge behind Islam, raising its banner when stumped for answers.But a greater shaking up is needed, something in the nature of upheavals that other nations have gone through. Question is whether that lucky moment will ever arrive or through some accident of fate or history we are condemned to those two greatest afflictions of human society, mediocrity and decline?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Prem » 25 Mar 2015 06:27

LokeshC wrote:^^^ Correct. Check out the Czech Flag incident in Al-Bakistan.


And Ganza Nawaz calling Kerry as Senator Kerry Luger on TV.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby shiv » 25 Mar 2015 06:43

a_bharat wrote:But, do you seriously think that Indians' sentiment/perception of Pakistan's perfidy is misplaced?

Two separate issues in your question.

Indian " sentiment/perception of Pakistan's perfidy" is not misplaced. What is misplaced is dictating what Modi should do based on that sentiment under the assumption that actions based on public sentiment would be a better guide for the Indian PM than any actions he might want to take based on diverse intelligence, geopolitical, military and other inputs.

It is easy to start quoting off-topic examples of how "public sentiment" can go against national interest. In this case you are cherry picking one example of public sentiment and demanding that the PM should do something based on that sentiment. This is what is being questioned here - not public sentiment.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby a_bharat » 25 Mar 2015 07:11

How do you reconcile these actions:
  • GoI cancels Foreign Sec level talks because paki official met Hurriyat leaders
  • GoI sends Foreign Sec to Pak under "Saarc yatra"
  • GoI sends ex-army chief & current MoS to a paki function and he had to observe the same Hurriyat folks disrespect Indian national anthem and respect paki anthem

I don't question the present Government's intentions, just its actions and the optics.
Last post from me on this.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Yogi_G » 25 Mar 2015 07:28

Jhujar wrote:Abb kahe Ko Royeee,Gubo jo Hovee. Sunega Nye Koi Terri Prathanaa,Chahe kitna Bhi Royee
Rewriting the Paki script

Aurangzeb died in 1707 and within a space of 32 years the Timurid Empire, mighty in its time, could not withstand the invasion of the Persian king, Nadir Shah, who ransacked Delhi and carried off its treasures, including the Peacock Throne and the Kohinoor diamond. A daughter of the Mughal emperor Muhammad Shah Rangila was taken by a son of Nadir Shah as his wife. Thousands of girls, both Muslim and Hindu, went as slave girls. Afghanistan and Punjab were detached from the Mughal Empire.The Sikhs were a rising power in Punjab, there were rebellions elsewhere, and the British had established a foothold in Bengal. Muslim power in Hindustan was thus on the decline, the days of its glory over. Paradoxically, the arrival of the British and the establishment of their Raj helped to arrest the process of this decline. The Sikh kingdom of Lahore was not defeated by Muslims; it was crushed by the British. And it were the British who lent a ready ear to the very loyal and almost obsequious plea of the Muslim League, when a delegation of Muslim grandees waited on Lord Minto in Shimla in 1905, for consideration and special treatment.The concern of the Muslim community, or its leading torch-bearers, in the years leading up to the Pakistan resolution in1940 was less freedom and liberation from foreign rule and more the fear of Hindu domination. It was not about kicking the British out of India. It was about the morning after, about what would happen once the British had gone. Not to put too fine a point on it, the Pakistan movement was thus born out of a sense of fear and foreboding. And that fear – despite our missiles, tanks and nuclear capability – seems not to have left Pakistan’s decision-making circles even after the passage of all these years.The Chinese communists did away with such symbols of the old China as the pigtail and the clothes worn in the old days. Ataturk did away with the fez, that symbol of traditional Turkish society, and decreed that even the Turkish peasant tilling the land would wear western clothes. Look at any gathering of the 1947 Muslim League leadership. The paladins are the very pictures of caution and respectability, on their faces not a trace of boldness or anything out of the ordinary. .
The Kashmir war, once begun, should have been prosecuted with vigour. Srinagar was there for the taking, defenceless and open. But the tribesmen tarried and there weren’t enough officers with the requisite ability or audacity to grab that opportunity.The distribution of evacuee property – admittedly not an easy task – could have been undertaken on different lines, each incoming migrant getting one small house or a portion of a house. But this became a scam, false claims being submitted and a race started for the grabbing and accumulation of property. Of all the legacies of independence and Partition this has proved to be the most enduring, the accumulation of property by fair means or foul the leading symbol of the new state.And Pakistan entered into alliances with America and became a pawn, a stooge, in the emerging cold war. Pakistan’s leaders – the bureaucrats and feudalists sitting in its councils – did not have the imagination to steer an independent path for the new country. The achkan-wearing and poetry-spouting leaders of the Muslim community were afraid in undivided Hindustan. Fear and insecurity remained their defining hallmarks even when the new state was formed.But all this is past and done. This is a country of 200 million Fowls. It deserves better. It deserves to step into the modern age. Granted that there is no Ataturk around and no Chinese communist party, and the political class just can’t free itself from its conservative and reactionary outlook. But are there no progressive elements left in this decrepit society? Is all hope lost? Is there no way forward?
No, our prospects can’t be that bleak. Isn’t the army trying to follow new directions? It hasn’t discarded all its prejudices or pet theories but a beginning is being made. How long before the rest of the nation becomes serious about national renewal?We can’t remain the inheritors of a dead civilisation. We can’t keep mouthing the old inanities. We can’t keep taking refuge behind Islam, raising its banner when stumped for answers.But a greater shaking up is needed, something in the nature of upheavals that other nations have gone through. Question is whether that lucky moment will ever arrive or through some accident of fate or history we are condemned to those two greatest afflictions of human society, mediocrity and decline?



See how carefully they have omitted any mention of Marathas. It was the Marathas who crossed the Yamuna and became kingmakers within the Mughal domain using the Syed brothers as pawns. Muslim power was reclaimed by Hindus and Sikhs and it then went to the British. The Muslim ruse of power transfer from Muslims to British is all too well known. This misinformation has gotten deeply embedded in Paki psyche. Worse under Sikh rule, less than 10% of Sikhs ruled over a large majority of Muslims in Punjab, this info is hardly ever written or discussed about for it turns the Paki logic of minority Muslims ruling over Majority Hindus on its head.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 25 Mar 2015 07:51

saip wrote:Both look similar. Only the color is different. So the guy could have been color blind.


Qatar's flag has 9 white points in the serrated line that divides white and red/maroon, Bahrain's has 5.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby saip » 25 Mar 2015 08:58

Yes. So what is the problem? The flag displayed has 9 triangles and so it is of Qatar.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby habal » 25 Mar 2015 09:02

Yogi_G wrote:
See how carefully they have omitted any mention of Marathas. It was the Marathas who crossed the Yamuna and became kingmakers within the Mughal domain using the Syed brothers as pawns. Muslim power was reclaimed by Hindus and Sikhs and it then went to the British. The Muslim ruse of power transfer from Muslims to British is all too well known. This misinformation has gotten deeply embedded in Paki psyche. Worse under Sikh rule, less than 10% of Sikhs ruled over a large majority of Muslims in Punjab, this info is hardly ever written or discussed about for it turns the Paki logic of minority Muslims ruling over Majority Hindus on its head.


marathas used to levy 'chauth' on mughal vassals in pakistani punjab. Pakjabis know this only too well.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Shreeman » 25 Mar 2015 10:37

here's eleven to the national bird. Rare these days.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby SSridhar » 25 Mar 2015 10:47

Yogi_G wrote:The Muslim ruse of power transfer from Muslims to British is all too well known. This misinformation has gotten deeply embedded in Paki psyche. Worse under Sikh rule, less than 10% of Sikhs ruled over a large majority of Muslims in Punjab, this info is hardly ever written or discussed about for it turns the Paki logic of minority Muslims ruling over Majority Hindus on its head.

Absolutely. Aurangzeb had been defeated by the Marathas and he barely escaped capture in the Deccan wars.

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Postby ArmenT » 25 Mar 2015 10:54

I don't think the meeting with the Qataris went as well as the Pakistanis hoped:
Confusion over price of LNG from Qatar
ISLAMABAD: Confusion persists over the liquefied natural gas (LNG) deal with Qatar as the government has not yet disclosed the per MMBTU price of gas.

Earlier, it was expected that details of the agreement would be made public during the visit of Emir of Qatar Sheikh Tamim Bin Hamad Al-Thani that concluded on Tuesday. The agreement for import of LNG from Qatar was signed on March 13.

During the visit of the Emir of Qatar, many MoUs were signed in energy, trade, economic, investment, manpower and defence.

Under the $22 billion reported deal, Qatar agreed to supply 500 million cubic feet of LNG per day for 15 years. However, there was no official word on LNG deal and details about the rate of the purchase and sale price.

If they had got a good price, they would have been crowing from the rooftops. Methinks the Qataris applied some GUBO clauses to the agreement.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 25 Mar 2015 12:14

ramana wrote:KLNM, I wonder if the WKKs with tangible things to lose are afraid of Paki hand inside India due to the free rein given by previous admins and the bloody mindedness of ISI that they sing their tunes?

Eg S Gupta has a lot of things to lose if he goes anti-Pak.

That would certainly be one logical explanation for the sheer abjectness. Human nature and freakanomics.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 25 Mar 2015 12:18

a_bharat wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:...
That's a good one. BRF amateurs are going to give Modi lessons in "clarity of thought."

Sir, BRF pro, my intent was not to give any lessons to Modi. He may very well have clarity of thought, but that is not the impression one gets from Govt actions. Govt loses credibility and respect if it changes its stance month to month.

The perils of English samaasams. It should be parsed as, "BRFites, who are generally all amateurs..."

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 25 Mar 2015 12:21

Su Swamy seems to believe that the hawala route is controlled by ISI and that enables them to have a chokehold on anyone who has used that route for shady deals inside and outside India. Dubai is now one of the preferred destination for Indian black money all routed via hawala.

If that were true a lot of folks in politics, media/film and business are hostage to the ISI and have a lot to loose if they do not toe the ISI line inside India.

There was also a recent rumor channel tip that one of the top TV anchors had gone to Dubai recently to get his dues settled with another guy in India. If true that would certainly leave the guy exposed to blackmail.
Last edited by pankajs on 25 Mar 2015 12:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 25 Mar 2015 12:28

Shreeman wrote:shiv,

A minister of defense is not a diplomat or deal with foreign affairs. Why then do you make a symbol out of VK Singh? There is neither reason nor rhyme that has been presented. Or did I miss it?

It is a valid question.

The Bakistan policy has seen an about face. There can never be a mature discussion in the media. So where do you talk about it?

Modi never had, nor did he ever promise, a policy of kateef with Pakistan, so there is nothing to about-face from. Shiv is right--the media took one set of actions--canceling the foreign secretary talks and retaliating to LOC firing, both perfectly consistent with the stated policy of not tolerating aggression against us--and decided to project it as kateef with Pakistan by the RSS wallah. Either with glee or with breastbeating, it doesn't matter, both show the infantile nature of the media.

Modi's agenda doesn't include sending media and all those who let the media guide their thoughts to re-education camp, so there is no prospect of this confusion abating in the near future. Those of us who want to think independently have to go, as much as possible, to original sources; ministry statements etc. I have found it useful and instructive to take Modi's statements at face value and on their own terms, instead ofallowing some inferior mind to filter them for me.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 25 Mar 2015 12:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 25 Mar 2015 12:43

a_bharat wrote:How do you reconcile these actions:
  • GoI cancels Foreign Sec level talks because paki official met Hurriyat leaders
  • GoI sends Foreign Sec to Pak under "Saarc yatra"
  • GoI sends ex-army chief & current MoS to a paki function and he had to observe the same Hurriyat folks disrespect Indian national anthem and respect paki anthem

I don't question the present Government's intentions, just its actions and the optics.
Last post from me on this.

Modi sarcar's stated policy is to seek good relations with all but to not tolerate aggression. There is, as there should be, lots of leeway in what is interpreted as aggression and what is the measure of response.

Hurriyet meeting was always an aggressive poke in the eye by TSP. Modi sarcar decided that the best bang for the buck was to time the jhapad when there was the FS talks at stake.

Rest of the moves are consistent with wanting good relations with Pakistan.

About respecting paki flag, let us try to deal with facts and reality. If an Indian citizen like Asia Andrabi who also happens to be a vicious jihadi decides to fly the paki flag and sing their national anthem, there is probably no law against it. If she did disrespect the Indian flag / anthem (did she? I only saw on BRF that she respected the paki flag) that would be an offense. If Modi sarcar then fails to take action due to political compulsions with PDP or whatever, , someone can probably force the issue by filing a PIL.

I personally want bad relations with Pakistan and a national policy, backed up by law, of insulting Pakistan at every opportunity. (Really) . But if I really wanted that, I should take responsibility for my desires and try to seize the reins of power. But if I had a childish mentality, I might just be satisfied with whining that Modi is not straining every nerve to fulfill my every whim. If I were a child in an adult's body, as are most DIE media, I would write and say snarky stuff In what I imagine to be my superior English, about how stupid and ignorant Modi is, for not playing to the peanut gallery consisting of myself.

It's a lot of pressure, and my hats off to Modi the man for having the character and intellect to chart a course and steering on that course.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 25 Mar 2015 13:05, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 25 Mar 2015 12:51

habal wrote:
Yogi_G wrote:
See how carefully they have omitted any mention of Marathas. It was the Marathas who crossed the Yamuna and became kingmakers within the Mughal domain using the Syed brothers as pawns. Muslim power was reclaimed by Hindus and Sikhs and it then went to the British. The Muslim ruse of power transfer from Muslims to British is all too well known. This misinformation has gotten deeply embedded in Paki psyche. Worse under Sikh rule, less than 10% of Sikhs ruled over a large majority of Muslims in Punjab, this info is hardly ever written or discussed about for it turns the Paki logic of minority Muslims ruling over Majority Hindus on its head.


marathas used to levy 'chauth' on mughal vassals in pakistani punjab. Pakjabis know this only too well.

Also on Nizam of Hyderabad.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby RajeshA » 25 Mar 2015 13:52

Policy towards Pakistan should be:

  1. Medium term destruction of Pakistan, read FATA, Gilgit, Baluchistan, ...
  2. Building intel infrastructure in Pakistan
  3. Jhapad, Jhapad, and one more Jhapad, if Pakistani actors, state or non-state or proxies or whatever, get uppity, without much political chest pounding. Let Army and Internet Hindus do all the talking.
  4. Ignore 95% of the time: politically, culturally, media-wise, sports. Nothing! Nada!
  5. Once in a while have a hearty laugh with them for the cameras, giving Pakis baseless hope and PR for "international community"

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Gagan » 25 Mar 2015 15:32

Lo ji! Pakistani chutiyapa. New cons-pee-racy theory.
India and Amreeka are funding LET and Haqqani network...

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Brad Goodman » 25 Mar 2015 16:52

It is time that Ajit Doval ji puts in practice his offensive defense doctrine. Invite Murri and Bugti tribe leaders to HT summit & India Today conclave

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 25 Mar 2015 17:01

Pakistan acknowledges that it is a liability for China:

http://nation.com.pk/columns/25-Mar-201 ... south-asia
And more importantly, in our context does China have the will to not only fit Pakistan in its larger Asian plans, but also the confidence in itself to be able to take us along without jeopardizing its other perceived economic interests in the South Asian region?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Shreeman » 25 Mar 2015 17:15

KLNMurthy wrote:
Shreeman wrote:shiv,

A minister of defense is not a diplomat or deal with foreign affairs. Why then do you make a symbol out of VK Singh? There is neither reason nor rhyme that has been presented. Or did I miss it?

It is a valid question.

The Bakistan policy has seen an about face. There can never be a mature discussion in the media. So where do you talk about it?

Modi never had, nor did he ever promise, a policy of kateef with Pakistan, so there is nothing to about-face from. Shiv is right--the media took one set of actions--canceling the foreign secretary talks and retaliating to LOC firing, both perfectly consistent with the stated policy of not tolerating aggression against us--and decided to project it as kateef with Pakistan by the RSS wallah. Either with glee or with breastbeating, it doesn't matter, both show the infantile nature of the media.

Modi's agenda doesn't include sending media and all those who let the media guide their thoughts to re-education camp, so there is no prospect of this confusion abating in the near future. Those of us who want to think independently have to go, as much as possible, to original sources; ministry statements etc. I have found it useful and instructive to take Modi's statements at face value and on their own terms, instead ofallowing some inferior mind to filter them for me.


KLNM,

I dont believe ANY politician (no, human) has policies, so no government could. The tinfoil hat is now extremely thick. Also, all media are cockroaches, destined to survive and disgust to the last day.

The line of questioning said -- why VK Singh? Why not the state minister for minorities, or wimmens, or potatoes, or foreign affairs, or onions? "Modi sent him" is the cause, not a good reason or an excuse.

Bakis are masters at "back channel" diplomacy. Back channel diplomacy is literally going to bakistan even for ordinary folk.

No government will take every step right.

In thise case, my tinfoid says pennies to a large heavy poodledum coin, Modi has seen the state of affairs in the establishment that lead to the bilateral status quo, and its cost to India. And now wishes to return to it. For whatever reasons. May be indian defense is gutted, may be the civil service is beholden to many powers, may be an i dustrial tycoon has a powerbase that isgetting disturbed. Maybe, Doval wants it that way.

I conjecture all this not on a single event, but many events that have stood out.

India is in for a few years of equal-equal, lets talk about all issues nonsense. It will be a destructive time with more skirmishes in kashmir, nonsense (and who knows realization) of baki taktikal nukes, occasional cross border firing, and in general kashmir is the cauldron/flashpot to media front pages.

Today is March 25, 2015.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby shiv » 25 Mar 2015 17:36

What exactly did VK Singh do or was asked to do? I seem to have missed it and everyone seems to be abuzz with opinions. Did he go to Islamabad?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Shreeman » 25 Mar 2015 17:42

He was officially delegated to represent India at the Embassy function of bakistan day where the hurrirats were chief guests. He went, then tweeted.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby CRamS » 25 Mar 2015 17:42

KLNMurthyJi,

Couple of thoughts from my side. Whether it is TSP pasand MMS and his gang of appeasing cowards and traitors like MSA, or tough-talking ModiJi and strategist Doval threatening TSP with losing Baluchistan should they try another Mumbai, the fact is India's military strength is what it is, and TSP and is not trembling in its undies at all this tough talk from ModiJi and Doval. And likewise, TSP's military is not about to walk over India. Their strategy as we all know is pigLeTs, nukes, and scum like Harried rats to dismember India (not to mention, all the other diplomatic tools at their disposal, equal equal being one of them).

Now where I have an issue is that ModiJi was using India's defensive and other strengths to change course. And unlike TSP, India does not need anything from TSP. Only annhilation of pigLeTs. Thus, ModiJi's policy of you fire, we fire. That was good. Cancel useless talks until you desist from co-opting those who want to break India. All that was good.

What the nation needs to know by reversing course, is what exactly is his TSP policy now? TSP attacked in Jammu, he didn't say a word. He made a U-turn and kissed up to TSP masquerading as some SAARC BS. Then in the most ugly spectacle, he sends his reluctant general to wine and dine with TSP and its anti-India munnas. (And add to this, his alliance with another set of separatist PDP gangsters. On this, ModiJi deserves some slack, after all, there was an election, and he made the best use of a fractured verdict by attempting to get a foot hold in the valley by making some compromises).

Thus, the nation is left wondering how exactly is his tough-talking policy any different from the traitor regime before him? Recall, MMS also did the same thing after 26/11, namely, suspend talks, and then came Thimpu and the rest of the surrender saga. Why is ModiJi any different, at least to date? And no point complaining about the hyperventilating media. They are only exploiting these inconsistencies.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 25 Mar 2015 18:30

CRamS saar are you door-knob is disguise? The above post fits exactly with his brand of hyperventilating *nationalism* so much so that you have used one of his favorite line too e.g.
CRamS wrote:What the nation needs to know ......

<snip>
Thus,the nation is left wondering ..............

CRamS wrote:Then in the most ugly spectacle, he sends his reluctant general to wine and dine with TSP and its anti-India munnas
The general has clarified on that point (Not tweets but his presence at the function) and so have some of past diplomats but of course the media is ignoring the obvious. Seems to me you are buying exactly what the media is selling. Or perhaps you are trying to sell the MSM line here on the board.
CRamS wrote:Thus, the nation is left wondering how exactly is his tough-talking policy any different from the traitor regime{Seriously! Modi regime==traitor regime?} before him? Recall, MMS also did the same thing after 26/11, namely, suspend talks, and then came Thimpu and the rest of the surrender saga. Why is ModiJi any different, at least to date? And no point complaining about the hyperventilating media. They are only exploiting these inconsistencies.

TSP benefits from 2 kind of crowd within India.
1. TSP pasand (WKK, CON Mafia, MMS, etc)
2. Hyperventilating Jingos who want Modi to jump into an Arjun and drive up to Pindi guns blazing all the way at the slightest deviation from their imagined India-Bak engagement. The general's engagement that you referred to being the case in point. Anything less is a sellout.

The first crowd benefits TSP in obvious ways but the second crowd is no less dangerous to India.

There is a saying in Hindi which translates approx to "When an elephant walks down to the market let the thousand dogs bark" implying that the elephant in such case should ignore the barking dogs. Engaging with the barking dogs in a slang match will only slow the elephant down and not gain anything for it. The dogs do not mind because they have nothing else to do but loiter around. There is eminent sense in that saying, the barking dogs being the many TSP natunki we see day in and day out.

Added later: By engaging with the Bakis on *every* ding-dong in the *sky is falling* mode we automatically do an == between India and Bakistan. By using the Indian hyper jingos to force GOI to elevate *every* incident, big or small, to a PM level crisis management, Bakis would succeeded in forcing India to do a == and that too on the demands of the Indian hyper jingos. Wouldn't that be some achievement for the Bakis?
Last edited by pankajs on 25 Mar 2015 18:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 25 Mar 2015 18:58

What I haven't seen anyone address is - is the Pakistani meeting with Hurrirats on Pakistan National Day (and Independence Day) something that began post-Modi, or is this a long-standing practice?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby CRamS » 25 Mar 2015 19:27

pankajsJi,

If there is a grand strategy behind ModiJi's moves, well I will cut him slack and wait. But I can tell you from personal experience in life, that perceptions do matter, and those need to be managed. All good intentions can go awry.

Whether you like it or not, ModiJi likes it or not, the perception is that he has caved in. This may not be true. But he needs to manage that. Just on paper, why are his U-turns any different from MMS's? Now, you may say there is some grand Chanakyan strategy. And so can MSA and other WKK clowns when they justify their cowardice. The point being that hyperventilating media is a reality. If they keep on the drum beat on his U-turn and apparent inconsistencies, it is going to stick with the junta at large, and he will have a tough time selling his grand strategy.

But you didn't answer the question. Why did ModiJi make a U-turn? He said no talks with TSP until terror and meeting Harrried rats ceased. TSP has violated both. Why did he unilaterally send his foreign sec to TSP? What did TSP do to deserve such a unilateral concession? Do you mean to say ModiJi is not duty bound to explain his U-turn? And his silence only invites the kind of ridicule you are seeing from his detractors and media. And on VKS, I take him at his word. But his tweets to be honest with you were confusing to say the least. And his denials later were even more confusing.

All this may not matter. Nobody, not even you, know what exactly ModiJi's TSP policy is? All I can say is that his maacho tough talking posture of no talks until terror ceases and meeting Harried rats is out of the window. He needs to explain what his policy is, and if he feels it necessary, explain his inconsistencies so he can get the hyperventilating media off his back (maybe he doesn't care about the media, which is fine, but he needs to manage them).

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby RajeshA » 25 Mar 2015 19:43

Perceptions are not a problem. With Pakistan there are plenty of opportunities to take them to Dhobi Ghat and thrash them. Sooner or later an opportunity would present itself and Modi can make the jingo heart glad!

I personally am not really interested in the open public media game of blaming Modi!

I am looking for Modi using a long lever and using it to do some deep prying in Paki Musharraf. How Baluchistan or FATA develop, that is interesting! Of course, if Pakis get uppity, I want Modi to go whack the Paki Musharraf red, but I don't mind Modi sending somebody to them and showing them some Reham and doing some patting!

A bully, which I hope we become, should balance both beatings and hugs we dish out to our enemies! Only this way, can we train Pakistan to be a good dog! Beat and pat, beat and pat, beat and pat!

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 25 Mar 2015 19:55

Shreeman wrote:...


I dont believe ANY politician (no, human) has policies, so no government could. The tinfoil hat is now extremely thick. Also, all media are cockroaches, destined to survive and disgust ...

In thise case, my tinfoid says pennies to a large heavy poodledum coin, Modi has seen the state of affairs in the establishment that lead to the bilateral status quo, and its cost to India. And now wishes to return to it. For whatever reasons. May be indian defense is gutted, may be the civil service is beholden to many powers, may be an i dustrial tycoon has a powerbase that isgetting disturbed. Maybe, Doval wants it that way.

I conjecture all this not on a single event, but many events that have stood out.

India is in for a few years of equal-equal, lets talk about all issues nonsense. It will be a destructive time with more skirmishes in kashmir, nonsense (and who knows realization) of baki taktikal nukes, occasional cross border firing, and in general kashmir is the cauldron/flashpot to media front pages.

Today is March 25, 2015.


Glad (though that's not the right word here) you caught the significance of yaum-e-Hindu-Genocide 44. The true Pakistan Day.

I actually find your rather cynical take fairly persuasive. Modi may have selected his campaign statements carefully so that he will have plausible deniablity of any charge of volte face. And the reality of India's debilitation may be even worse than even he thought before he became PM, thus putting severe limits on what can and cannot be done.

I can only guess why VKS was sent instead of someone else. I would have preferred a pan chewing potbellied lungi-tucked-up havildar of BRF fame. Maybe it was a combo of protocol requirements, minimum IQ requirement and availability.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 25 Mar 2015 20:10

CRamS wrote:KLNMurthyJi,

Couple of thoughts from my side. Whether it is TSP pasand MMS and his gang of appeasing cowards and traitors like MSA, or tough-talking ModiJi and strategist Doval threatening TSP with losing Baluchistan should they try another Mumbai, the fact is India's military strength is what it is, and TSP and is not trembling in its undies at all this tough talk from ModiJi and Doval. And likewise, TSP's military is not about to walk over India. Their strategy as we all know is pigLeTs, nukes, and scum like Harried rats to dismember India (not to mention, all the other diplomatic tools at their disposal, equal equal being one of them).

Now where I have an issue is that ModiJi was using India's defensive and other strengths to change course. And unlike TSP, India does not need anything from TSP. Only annhilation of pigLeTs. Thus, ModiJi's policy of you fire, we fire. That was good. Cancel useless talks until you desist from co-opting those who want to break India. All that was good.

What the nation needs to know by reversing course, is what exactly is his TSP policy now? TSP attacked in Jammu, he didn't say a word. He made a U-turn and kissed up to TSP masquerading as some SAARC BS. Then in the most ugly spectacle, he sends his reluctant general to wine and dine with TSP and its anti-India munnas. (And add to this, his alliance with another set of separatist PDP gangsters. On this, ModiJi deserves some slack, after all, there was an election, and he made the best use of a fractured verdict by attempting to get a foot hold in the valley by making some compromises).

Thus, the nation is left wondering how exactly is his tough-talking policy any different from the traitor regime before him? Recall, MMS also did the same thing after 26/11, namely, suspend talks, and then came Thimpu and the rest of the surrender saga. Why is ModiJi any different, at least to date? And no point complaining about the hyperventilating media. They are only exploiting these inconsistencies.


Please see my response to Shreeman. There may be something to what you and he are saying. The apparent continuity of policy with MMS administration, barring some considerations of competence, integrity etc. suggests that there are some ground realities that compel limitations. A key aspect is that very broadly speaking, the entire political / public class scores low on the imagination and creativity scale. They can't hold a candle to BRF and we are not even that great.

Today is a bleak and solemn anniversary that should bring us down to the reality of what is at stake. Maybe it is time to cool the character judgment rhetoric on all sides (God knows I spent enough time praising Modi whom I do see as a breath of fresh air in a bleak landscape) and think more of concrete systemic actions that will change the situation. I know BRF does that now, but maybe more of us need to focus on that aspect.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby gakakkad » 25 Mar 2015 20:20

A_Gupta wrote:What I haven't seen anyone address is - is the Pakistani meeting with Hurrirats on Pakistan National Day (and Independence Day) something that began post-Modi, or is this a long-standing practice?


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 682854.cms


NEW DELHI: Prime Minister's Office took the decision to send a government representative to attend the Pak Day event at the last minute since it had been the norm.

Top officials in security establishment told ET that boycott of the event at the Pak High Commission would have sent wrong diplomatic signals. "India refused to send a representative to attend the Pak Day only twice earlier. One was immediately after the Kargil war and then after 26/11.




only twice has Yindia not sent anyone there...hurri-rats are usually seen...

I don't see what it so deal-e-big about this except DDM wheezing ..

accepted more maturity from brfites..


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