Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2015

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pankajs
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 25 Mar 2015 20:48

Brahma Chellaney ‏@Chellaney 34m34 minutes ago

After two major policy somersaults by India, Modi’s Pakistan policy today looks no different than his predecessor’s: http://goo.gl/ZnNCVj
In his first eight months in office, Prime Minister Narendra Modi impressed many with his foreign policy skills. For example, he signalled that India’s response to Pakistan’s strategy to inflict death by a thousand cuts will no longer be survival by a thousand bandages; rather the response will be punitive so as to have a deterrent effect and help reform Pakistan’s conduct. Pakistan’s stepped-up ceasefire violations were met with a punishing mortar-for-bullet response.

Yet today, Modi’s Pakistan policy looks barely different from his predecessor’s. Since US President Barack Obama’s New Delhi visit, there has been a major transformation in India’s Pakistan policy. Obama pitched strongly for India’s re-engagement with Pakistan, dwelling on that theme at great length during his famous chai per charcha with Modi. His line of reasoning manifestly left a deep impression on Modi.

This is apparent from India’s policy somersaults on two critical issues. The first U-turn—resumption of bilateral dialogue—raises troubling questions about the logic behind it. Such re-engagement even as Pakistan exports terror encourages it to persist with its roguish conduct. Thus, few should be surprised by the return of terror attacks to Jammu and Kashmir. Since the Obama visit, Modi’s conciliatory gestures have included a telephone call to his Pakistani counterpart, Nawaz Sharif, and then a letter to him—hand-delivered by the Indian foreign secretary—in which the Indian leader said he looks forward to visiting Islamabad early next year for the summit of the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (Saarc).

The second U-turn is no less puzzling: India conveyed to Pakistan last month that its high commissioner in New Delhi can meet Hurriyat separatists on any occasion other than when official talks are about to begin. In other words, Modi has yielded ground even on the issue that led him to cancel talks with Pakistan last August. The Pakistani high commissioner, in keeping with the Indian advisory, met first with Hurriyat’s Syed Ali Shah Geelani immediately after the foreign secretary-level talks in Islamabad and then this week with a seven-member Hurriyat delegation led by Mirwaiz Umar Farooq.

Now consider another issue—the government’s dispatch of a reluctant minister, V.K. Singh, to the Pakistan Day event. Singh is not just any minister of state. As a former army chief, he deserves due respect. In the Indian system, even civil servants at times try to ride roughshod over service chiefs. In this case it was the government itself that did not accord due respect to a former army chief by sending him as its representative to an event bristling with the presence of Pakistan’s Hurriyat surrogates.

Modi swept to power in a huge election win because voters expected him to usher in qualitative change. The hope was that he would be a transformative leader. Today, ironically, the lack of self-respect that permeated Manmohan Singh’s Pakistan policy risks seeping into the Modi government’s actions.

With Modi’s policy adrift, Pakistan feels emboldened not just by his U-turns, but also by other political developments in India, including the Bharatiya Janata Party sacrificing principles at the altar of political expediency by entering into an alliance with the People’s Democratic Party in Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) and the Modi government putting up with the J&K government’s release of pro-Pakistan militant Masarat Alam. The opportunistic alliance in J&K is between the architect of the cave-in in the 1989 Rubaiya Sayeed kidnapping case—when the current chief minister of J&K was India’s home minister—which helped fuel terrorism, and the party whose government at the centre hand-delivered top terrorists to hijackers in Kandahar.

Other than the tool of dialogue, India has little direct leverage over Pakistan. Dialogue thus must be employed judiciously to help change its conduct. If talks are held even when Pakistan’s belligerence remains intense, it will blunt this instrument.

Yet India has long had difficulty staying its course. For example, just months after the unparalleled Mumbai attacks by 10 Pakistani gunmen, Manmohan Singh not only re-engaged Pakistan at the highest level but signed a joint statement at Sharm-el-Sheikh in which a reference to Baluchistan was included as if to implicate India in fomenting the insurrection there. Suspension of talks lasted barely seven months. India’s unconditional resumption of dialogue each time only reinforces Pakistan’s conviction that provocation carries no costs because even if the dialogue were suspended again, India will reopen talks for two reasons—US pressure and India’s blow-hot-blow-cold traditions.

Today, Islamabad has reason to gloat over how its unbending intransigence has again brought India to the negotiating table and gained Pakistan a licence for interacting with Kashmiri separatists. Pakistan’s Hurriyat stooges are there to take diktats from their Pakistani handlers, not to ensure peace and stability in the Kashmir Valley.

After 10 months in office, Modi needs to fix the broken Pakistan policy he inherited from Manmohan Singh, rather than concoct a mirror image of the same policy. It is high time India abandoned the notion that it has no option but to stay stuck in the old failed policy of holding dialogue even as Pakistan remains intransigent. And it must stop facilitating Pakistan’s interactions with Hurriyat separatists. Will Pakistan allow any Indian official to meet Baloch secessionists or the protest leaders in Shia-majority Gilgit-Baltistan? If an Indian diplomat defiantly met any Pakistan-based separatist, that secessionist would either disappear for good or be quickly tried before a military court and executed.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Peregrine » 25 Mar 2015 23:37

"It's like déjà vu all over again."

Pakistan in the process to offer NDMA to India: report

GENEVA: Pakistan is in the process of granting the Non-Discriminatory Market Access (NDMA) status to India, according to World Trade Organization (WTO) report.

“…Under NDMA, Pakistan is expected to reduce its sensitive lists to 100 tariff lines,” the Trade Policy Review report of the WTO said.

NDMA is a nomenclature chosen by Pakistan to avoid political implications of giving India MFN (Most Favoured Nation) status.

India granted the MFN status to Pakistan in 1996 but Pakistan is yet to reciprocate. Granting the status to India would help in further boosting trade between the countries.

Pakistan, which committed giving India the MFN status in 2012, postponed it because of a lack of consensus among different stakeholders.

Giving NDMA status to India means abolition of the negative list, which includes 1,209 tradeable items between the two countries.

While bilateral trade between India and Pakistan stood at $2.7 billion in 2013-14., India’s main exports to Pakistan include sugar, and chemicals, while its imports include mineral fuels, among others.

Question to BR-F Gurus : Why is Indo-Cwapistan Trade so very important to our Baniyas?
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 26 Mar 2015 00:12

A_Gupta wrote:What I haven't seen anyone address is - is the Pakistani meeting with Hurrirats on Pakistan National Day (and Independence Day) something that began post-Modi, or is this a long-standing practice?

Why do you think the question is relevant? Just curious.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 26 Mar 2015 00:22

CRamS wrote:pankajsJi,

If there is a grand strategy behind ModiJi's moves, well I will cut him slack and wait. But I can tell you from personal experience in life, that perceptions do matter, and those need to be managed. All good intentions can go awry.
...


not personal at all, but there is a saying in Telugu, from the original BhartRhari subhaashitaani: "... Murkhuni manasu ramjimparaadu." I.e., it is impossible to satisfy the mind of a stubborn, self-important fool.

I see Indian public life having an over-representation of murkhas and mUDhas (ignorant fools). Their perceptions are unmanageable.

Always avoid taking the lead from murkhas, lest you risk becoming one yourself.
[/quote]

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby chetak » 26 Mar 2015 00:25

pankajs wrote:
Brahma Chellaney ‏@Chellaney 34m34 minutes ago

After two major policy somersaults by India, Modi’s Pakistan policy today looks no different than his predecessor’s: http://goo.gl/ZnNCVj
In his first eight months in office, Prime Minister Narendra Modi impressed many with his foreign policy skills. For example, he signalled that India’s response to Pakistan’s strategy to inflict death by a thousand cuts will no longer be survival by a thousand bandages; rather the response will be punitive so as to have a deterrent effect and help reform Pakistan’s conduct. Pakistan’s stepped-up ceasefire violations were met with a punishing mortar-for-bullet response.



sincerely hope that obama has not infected NaMo with the nobel virus.

One wonders what great hold the US has on us that gets us to eagerly jump through hoops each time uncle sam whistles??

looks like the hurriyat is back on the high table, courtesy the b@ll less wonders of the GOI.

Why commit this far ahead that he (NaMo) is willing to visit pakiland?? This will be followed by the inevitable "joint" press conference / statement where the GOI will eagerly sell the rest of India down the river.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Tuvaluan » 26 Mar 2015 00:35

How the hell is hurriyat on the high table after the Indian govt. (MEA spokesperson Syed Akbaruddin) has explictly stated that the hurriyat is a non entity and all talks are between parties: India and Pakistan. Brahma Chellaney is full of sh** and seems to appeal to people who don't pay attention to current events and the official stance of the govt.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Mar 2015 00:51

KLNMurthy wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:What I haven't seen anyone address is - is the Pakistani meeting with Hurrirats on Pakistan National Day (and Independence Day) something that began post-Modi, or is this a long-standing practice?

Why do you think the question is relevant? Just curious.


If this practice started with August 14 last year, then clearly Pakistan is baiting Modi, and that leads to one line of analysis.

If this practice is older, what is the policy precedent for handling such Hurriyat involvement in Pakistani Embassy national events? Is Modi merely following precedent? Is whom he sent a change in precedent that we haven't noticed, we being unaware of the past? etc. Did Modi send someone of lower rank than usual? Higher rank than usual? Was there a boycott in the past that Modi broke? etc., etc.

PS: Hurriyat was nowhere near the Pakistan Embassy, I think, if the Chief of Hurriyat was elsewhere issuing a statement:

August 14, 2013
http://zeenews.india.com/bbv/hurriyat-w ... 68871.html

March 23, 2013
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... in-a-spot/

August 14, 2012
http://zeenews.india.com/news/jammu-and ... 93638.html

March 23, 2012
http://drshabirchoudhry.blogspot.com/20 ... -with.html

PPS: I don't find anything indicating such contact for 2011 either. But proving a negative is hard. I now speculate that this invite to Hurriyat to the Pakistan embassy to participate in Independence Day and Pakistan Day are instituted by Pakistan after Modi came to power.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Mar 2015 01:25

Peregrine wrote:Question to BR-F Gurus : Why is Indo-Cwapistan Trade so very important to our Baniyas?
Cheers Image


While waiting for the BR-F Gurus to answer, my take is:

1. Our Baniyas will make more money if they cut out the Abu Dhabi middlemen and sell directly to Pakistan.

2. Strategically speaking, a "peace with India" constituency in Pakistan may grow if people get direct economic benefit from trade with India - namely, the opposite of "“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” I know, it is a long shot, but has as good a chance as anything else.

3. Increased trade also means increased infiltration possibilities - certainly from Pakistan into India; but also vice versa!

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 26 Mar 2015 02:11

chetak wrote:sincerely hope that obama has not infected NaMo with the nobel virus.

One wonders what great hold the US has on us that gets us to eagerly jump through hoops each time uncle sam whistles??

looks like the hurriyat is back on the high table, courtesy the b@ll less wonders of the GOI.

Why commit this far ahead that he (NaMo) is willing to visit pakiland?? This will be followed by the inevitable "joint" press conference / statement where the GOI will eagerly sell the rest of India down the river.
Not sure if Modi's visit to China and two to Russia planned for this year are a result of uncle sams whistles. Possible but unlikely.

Shareef in India last year wanted to issue a *joint* statement and do a joint presser but I did not see it happen.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 26 Mar 2015 02:11

==> duplicate <==
Last edited by pankajs on 26 Mar 2015 14:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Tuvaluan » 26 Mar 2015 02:22

A_Gupta wrote:2. Strategically speaking, a "peace with India" constituency in Pakistan may grow if people get direct economic benefit from trade with India - namely, the opposite of "“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” I know, it is a long shot, but has as good a chance as anything else.


The catch here is that all the paki industries are owned by people connected with the Paki army for the most part, so the only thing this kind of trade with pakistan will achieve is enrich the PA/ISI owned companies to get rich at India's expense. There are other businessmen too, but since when has the crooked paki army/establishment not jumped in if there was a chance they could make a bunch of money and possibly infiltrate India at the same time via legit business front.

3. Increased trade also means increased infiltration possibilities - certainly from Pakistan into India; but also vice versa!


That was already happening with increased trade across the LOC -- which was stopped because India arrested and confiscate a truckload of heroin. The paki condition for reopening trade is to return the heroin to the pakis!! This is exactly what is happening across the Punjab border, and will happen if trade volumes between India and Pakistan increase to the point where it is difficult to check all the paki goods that enter are not also bringing in heroin.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Cosmo_R » 26 Mar 2015 02:23

A_Gupta wrote:
Peregrine wrote:Question to BR-F Gurus : Why is Indo-Cwapistan Trade so very important to our Baniyas?
Cheers Image


While waiting for the BR-F Gurus to answer, my take is:

1. Our Baniyas will make more money if they cut out the Abu Dhabi middlemen and sell directly to Pakistan.

2. Strategically speaking, a "peace with India" constituency in Pakistan may grow if people get direct economic benefit from trade with India - namely, the opposite of "“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” I know, it is a long shot, but has as good a chance as anything else.

3. Increased trade also means increased infiltration possibilities - certainly from Pakistan into India; but also vice versa!


Someone on BRF long ago, used to say : "Give peace a chance. Destroy Pakistan." Trade with the pakis will not only cutoff the Dubai gang which indirectly funds terrorism against India but also demolish a lot of Fauji-owned import/export oligpolies. Direct trade <>to infiltration since we don't expect paki traders to set up road side stalls in numbers.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Prem » 26 Mar 2015 02:38

svinayak wrote:
RajeshA wrote:Perceptions are not a problem. With Pakistan there are plenty of opportunities to take them to Dhobi Ghat and thrash them. Sooner or later an opportunity would present itself and Modi can make the jingo heart glad!I personally am not really interested in the open public media game of blaming Modi!
PM Modi will not have any perception problem and that too about caving in!


Hoorirats Deep-low-Mutt Mitrs in Delhi did not squeak,neither the domestic dogs barked lest they be identified. Now we wait till Chaodha August to see if few of these night crawlers come out of dark.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 26 Mar 2015 02:56

A_Gupta wrote:
Peregrine wrote:Question to BR-F Gurus : Why is Indo-Cwapistan Trade so very important to our Baniyas?
Cheers Image


While waiting for the BR-F Gurus to answer, my take is:

1. Our Baniyas will make more money if they cut out the Abu Dhabi middlemen and sell directly to Pakistan.

2. Strategically speaking, a "peace with India" constituency in Pakistan may grow if people get direct economic benefit from trade with India - namely, the opposite of "“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” I know, it is a long shot, but has as good a chance as anything else.

3. Increased trade also means increased infiltration possibilities - certainly from Pakistan into India; but also vice versa!

Isn't all this academic onlee, since pukis think MFN is good for India, so they'll always find a way of not doing it?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Peregrine » 26 Mar 2015 03:22

Peregrine wrote:Question to BR-F Gurus : Why is Indo-Cwapistan Trade so very important to our Baniyas?
Cheers Image

A_Gupta wrote: While waiting for the BR-F Gurus to answer, my take is:
1. Our Baniyas will make more money if they cut out the Abu Dhabi middlemen and sell directly to Pakistan.

2. Strategically speaking, a "peace with India" constituency in Pakistan may grow if people get direct economic benefit from trade with India - namely, the opposite of "“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” I know, it is a long shot, but has as good a chance as anything else.

3. Increased trade also means increased infiltration possibilities - certainly from Pakistan into India; but also vice versa!

A_Gupta Ji :

1. Our Indian Traders will be forced to sell to the Cwapistanis at the same rate they sold to the Abu Dhabi middleman thereby further benefits to the Cwapistani Traders – of the Armed Forces genre or otherwise and possibly they will pass on a “bit” to the Aam Abdul and Burqa Bilkis.

2. With the Cwapistani Administration-Powers that having inculcated deep, fetid and putrid hatred in the Cwapistani people for the Indians in General and Hindus-Sikhs in Particular in the last 67 years and more please forget all about a “peace with India” constituency in Pakistan. One could well say the next Pope will not be a Catholic!

3. Infiltration will only be one way i.e. from Cwapistan into India.
Cosmo_R wrote:Someone on BRF long ago, used to say : "Give peace a chance. Destroy Pakistan." Trade with the pakis will not only cutoff the Dubai gang which indirectly funds terrorism against India but also demolish a lot of Fauji-owned import/export oligpolies. Direct trade <>to infiltration since we don't expect paki traders to set up road side stalls in numbers.

Cosmo_R Ji :

Sir Ji, the Cwapistani Faujis will directly or through “Pakistani Front-men” buy Indian Goods. By trading directly with India Fauji-owned import/export oligpolies will get the Goods at the same Costs as was paid by the Abu Dhabi middlemen. Call me a Pessimist, if you will, but that is what will happen.
KLNMurthy wrote:Isn't all this academic onlee, since pukis think MFN is good for India, so they'll always find a way of not doing it?

KLNMurthy Ji :

Sir Ji when the Cwapistani "Trading Houses-Faujis" start getting Indian Goods without paying for (1)Freight from India to Abu Dhabi along with Double Stevedoring and finally Storage Charges in Abu Dhabi,, (2)Abu Dhabi Traders Mark up and Freight from Abu Dhabi then they will all drop Oodles of Frothing Saliva onto their Beards and use their "Front - Men" in India.

In my opinion all the Indian Goods to Cwapistan - say from Gujarat and Northern India - will be by the Land Route.

No Direct Trade with Cwapistan. Let them pay for the Extras as enumerated above amounting to well over US$ Fifty to may be US$ 100 per Tonne, may be even more.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Mar 2015 03:43

KLNMurthy wrote:Isn't all this academic onlee, since pukis think MFN is good for India, so they'll always find a way of not doing it?


Not exactly, because e.g., China might think that its investments in Pakistan might earn money only if, e.g., some traffic is put on the highways and railways they build for Pakistan via trade with India, and as a courier for India-Afghanistan trade. I don't think Pakistan by itself can generate the economic activity to pay for all that infrastructure, and maybe the Chinese think so too.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby RamaY » 26 Mar 2015 03:50

A_Gupta wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:Isn't all this academic onlee, since pukis think MFN is good for India, so they'll always find a way of not doing it?


Not exactly, because e.g., China might think that its investments in Pakistan might earn money only if, e.g., some traffic is put on the highways and railways they build for Pakistan via trade with India, and as a courier for India-Afghanistan trade. I don't think Pakistan by itself can generate the economic activity to pay for all that infrastructure, and maybe the Chinese think so too.


Chinese investments in Pakistan are geopolitical & military. Not just economic.

It's same as Chinese investments into Ghost Cities. They have different "economic/social" value.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 26 Mar 2015 04:06

A_Gupta wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:Isn't all this academic onlee, since pukis think MFN is good for India, so they'll always find a way of not doing it?


Not exactly, because e.g., China might think that its investments in Pakistan might earn money only if, e.g., some traffic is put on the highways and railways they build for Pakistan via trade with India, and as a courier for India-Afghanistan trade. I don't think Pakistan by itself can generate the economic activity to pay for all that infrastructure, and maybe the Chinese think so too.

Afraid I don't follow. Are you saying chinese may push pak to give mfn to india?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Mar 2015 04:11

^^^ Maybe not MFN; but possibly to trade more.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby SSridhar » 26 Mar 2015 04:22

Peregrine wrote:"It's like déjà vu all over again."
Why is Indo-Cwapistan Trade so very important to our Baniyas?

Peregrine ji, for several reasons perhaps, but none of them 'very important'.

One, India needs to increase its share in global trade so that it earns more money. Every legitimate avenue is welcome. Pakistan imports about USD 45 Billion worth of goods in which about 4% is already by India. India can garner a significant component of Pakistan's imports especially because of the favourable land, sea and air routes for transportation which would make it attractive for Pakistan to import from us (Pakistani Establishment's view is quite another matter). Pakistan will never be able to export much to us and the trade deficit would be an added leverage for us (if we are ever interested in using all the levers at our disposal to our advantage). Besides, the attraction here is that the money we make from this trade can be used against them, a more sanitized, legitimate version of the regan administration's Iran-Contra affair.

Two, a closer trade opens many doors (as India has now done to China) and these can be to our advantage. We need to gain access beyond Pakistan. Of course, this runs the potential risk too of Murthy-ilk interfering in our foreign policy when a situation arises as it happened earlier. But, a strong GoI should be able to handle that eventuality.

Third, IMHO Pakistan will *not* go down the drain for the next two or three decades at all (even more perhaps), and therefore it makes sense to partake in shaping its future in every possible way and also make money out of it. This does not mean we go soft on Pakistan. The policy with which Modi started, Indian riposte will be disproportionate for every Pakistani transgression, must be the basis. This must be reiterated at every conceivable opportunity and without fail. Our trade need not come in the way of our belligerence.

Fourth, India must demand a quick resolution of this. India must drag Pakistan to WTO for not granting reciprocal MFN. We must not allow Pakistan to change the nomenclature to NDMA etc. India must work towards changing Pakistan's behaviour by hitting its H&D.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Prem » 26 Mar 2015 08:53

Syed Ata Hasnain ‏@atahasnain53 Mar 23
Pak National Day, traditional day for separatists to receive their compensation.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby arun » 26 Mar 2015 09:45

Brahma Chellaney in Mint on India’s policy towards the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Mr. Chellaney finds the BJP led Administration of our Prime Minister Narendra Modi wanting and I agree with that conclusion of Mr. Chellaney.

Read and be depressed:

India’s Pakistan policy in tatters : Narendra Modi’s govt is in danger of being as incoherent as Manmohan Singh’s in dealing with Pakistan

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby ramana » 26 Mar 2015 09:48

BC is another of those holier than thou experts. Just let him be.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby arun » 26 Mar 2015 10:13

X Posted from the Islamism thread.

The scope of Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden religion based sectarian violence in Yemen is set to expand with a coalition of Sunni Mohammadden countries including the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and their Saudi Arabian patrons, threatening to militarily intervene in order to suppress Yemeni Shia Mohammaddens.

India must work to thwart this Sunni Mohammadden belligerence targeting Shia Mohammadden’s in Yemen and provide all diplomatic and moral support to Shia Mohammaddens both in Yemen and even elsewhere such as in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Operation 'Firmness Storm': Saudi says Pakistan wants to join fight against Yemen rebels

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby schinnas » 26 Mar 2015 12:13

arun wrote:Brahma Chellaney in Mint on India’s policy towards the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Mr. Chellaney finds the BJP led Administration of our Prime Minister Narendra Modi wanting and I agree with that conclusion of Mr. Chellaney.

Read and be depressed:

India’s Pakistan policy in tatters : Narendra Modi’s govt is in danger of being as incoherent as Manmohan Singh’s in dealing with Pakistan


None of us outside of close circle in administration actually know all the strategic plans and covert ops that are afloat. Invincible pigeon would have triggered some nice long term covert op project soon after reporting for duty. Given the sorry state of our foreign policy, economy and intelligence one would need time to play hard ball. Now that foreign policy and economy are back on track and hopefully intelligence wings too, one can expect to see fruits of the plans over the next several months / years. Let us give NaMo atleast one more year and see.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Virendra » 26 Mar 2015 14:02

arun wrote:X Posted from the Islamism thread.

The scope of Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden religion based sectarian violence in Yemen is set to expand with a coalition of Sunni Mohammadden countries including the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and their Saudi Arabian patrons, threatening to militarily intervene in order to suppress Yemeni Shia Mohammaddens.

India must work to thwart this Sunni Mohammadden belligerence targeting Shia Mohammadden’s in Yemen and provide all diplomatic and moral support to Shia Mohammaddens both in Yemen and even elsewhere such as in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Operation 'Firmness Storm': Saudi says Pakistan wants to join fight against Yemen rebels

Eagerly praying to see this materialize. I thought Pakistan had reluctantly declined this offer (command?).
India would be sitting on fence however. We have no dog in the fight and will let the islamists settle it out in the arena.
Apka Bloodbath, Apko Mubarak ...

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Harish » 26 Mar 2015 14:20

The pakis, having crashed out of the World Cup, now want the dark dhoti-shivering Indian birathers to take revenge. Sure. We'll be happy to shell the heck out of you all along the LoC. linka
The cricketing rivalry between India and Pakistan is no secret. But what happens when one of the two crashes out of the most celebrated cricket tournament?

Surprisingly, a growing number of Pakistanis are now saying they will back M S Dhoni’s men in blue for the semi-final on Thursday, simply because they’d like the World Cup to remain in the subcontinent. {Apparently the pakis have some connection with the Indian subcontinent.}

"Since team Green is out of the world cup...India is my favorite team now," tweeted @MariamMustafa from Islamabad after Pakistan lost to Australia on Friday.

And Mustafa isn’t the only one. Scores of Pakistani cricket fans have pledged their support for India and the new-found love probably has something to do with them wanting India to teach Australia a lesson for defeating their national team.

"Go India and give Aussies a taste of their own medicine as Wahab Riaz did during Pak vs Aus QF! Good Luck!" read a comment by Salman Shakeel on Facebook.

"I will pray to ALLAH that you guys win and make this subcontinent proud. Regardless of all the differences I wholeheartedly want you guys to win. Bless you all. Regards from a Pakistani brother," read another post by Mohammad Ali Chaudhary.

Sample some more:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Images/po ... aklove.jpg

Many Indians cheered Pakistan during its match with Australia, especially appreciating Riaz's bowling.

"God bless you mate! You kept the spirit of cricket alive! Pleasure seeing you bowl with such aggression!" tweeted Bangalore's Siddhant Malik, tagging Riaz's official Twitter handle.

Support also poured in from India for Pakistani captain Misbah-ul-Haq who bid goodbye to cricket after the team's ouster.

"Great man great leader, Ur resolve will inspire many. Wishes from India #ThankYouMisbah #PakvsAus," tweeted Nikhil Chopra from Delhi.

Haq has placed his money on India to beat Australia.

While some Pakistani fans are supporting India out of neighbourly love, others clearly have payback on their minds.

"Now u have to take revenge for us," wrote Hashir Sehto in a Facebook comment. And for many Indians, the feeling is mutual.

"Our Sweet Bitter love- #India is now obliged & has big responsibility to take revenge of neighbour #Pakistan," read a tweet by Nitin Yadav.

India's strong performances through the tournament too played a role in generating the Pakistani support.

"Look back at the tournament and tell me a single performance of an Indian player, be it a batsman or a bowler, which was memorable or game-defining or will be part of the tournament’s highlight package. This shows how Team India relied on the collective rather than an individual," said Karachi-based journalist Abid Hussain, who's rooting for the Kiwis.

"India might well go on to win the tournament, as much as I DON’T want them to."

But things between the two fan clubs aren't all rosy. Many from both countries have kept up the jokes and jabs usually associated with the cricketing rivalry that goes back decades.

Sample this meme that is currently a viral WhatsApp favourite in India:

Text: "We are still kids. Our daddy (India) will meet you in the semifinals"

Among the many things India and Pakistan have in common, love for cricket probably figures right at the top.

Khaver Siddiqi, a Pakistani living in Chennai who uses the Twitter handle @thekarachikid, explains the rivalry as "an electrifying phenomenon". He said, "The only thing close enough that resembles it is the Super Bowl in terms of the energy scale. It is always exciting and so much is on the line."

The social media consultant is an ardent cricket fan and even tweeted a selfie with his family in Pakistani jerseys during the World Cup clash between the neighbours in February.

The two countries share an illustrious cricketing history with both having produced world champions who grew up playing in maidans and gymkhanas. Players for both countries have, over the years, taken to the 22 yards with immense passion and expressed respect for each other off the field.

While Wasim Akram called Sachin Tendulkar "the best batsman in the history of the game", Sunil Gavaskar hailed legendary batsman Javed Miandad "for possessing a rare skill of unsettling the opposition by just ‘talking’ and not having to resort to sledging".

Miandad was infamous among Indian cricket fans in the 1980s for making life difficult for bowlers.

Respect was an emotion not lost on social media as well.

As one cricket fan put it: "It's really amazing to see both Indians and Pakistanis come together". :roll:

(With inputs from Abhimanyu Kulkarni)


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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby SSridhar » 26 Mar 2015 14:24

If Pakistan joins the fight in Yemen, it would be a good opportunity for R&AW to do some good discreet propaganda within STFUP.

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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2015

Postby Peregrine » 26 Mar 2015 15:26

SSridhar Ji :

1. Your post 26 Mar 2015 04:22 – India must be very weary of Trade with Pakistan as Pakistani Trade with China has “wiped out” 30 and more Pakistani Industries. In this repect the Mango Cwapistani and his Burqa Bilkis have not had any negative reactions wrt Relations with China.

However, in addition to the MFN or whatever nomenclature Cwapistan grants India, India will be forced – by its Cwapistani "rounded prominence at the lower posterior part of the body" licking Indians – to grant Cwapistanis Visa Free Travel and that will the beginning of the end!

It is imperative for India to expedite the construction and then the commencement of Operations at the Port of Chah Bahar.

It would help a lot if one could check on the World Book of Facts of the Imports and Exports of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan and possibly the Xinjiang. You will find that most of their trade is with Europe, China and possibly Japan and South Korea. In addition the Chinese are vigorously improving their Rail Connections with Europe.

IMHO : Gwadar will only be a PLA Naval Base.

2. Your post 26 Mar 2015 14:24 : I fully support your view but feel India has to just “sit back in an arm chair, relax and watch”. The Cwapistanis Armed Forces are "born again" of the one and the only Col. Cargill of Catch 22. Cwapistanis will work very hard indeed to destroy themselves.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby SSridhar » 26 Mar 2015 16:09

With Oil And Gas Pipelines, China Takes A Shortcut Through Myanmar - Eric Meyer, Forbes

Will it mean that Gwadar will not be important in Chinese calculations?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby SSridhar » 26 Mar 2015 16:19

Peregrine ji,

I expect the present government to insist on reciprocity in its dealings. Thus, I do not see that Pakistan's linking of MFN (or NDMA) with Visa-free entry will be entertained. The MHA/MEA are shooting down the same for China and therefore Pakistan would certainly not be bestowed with that favour, one can be sure of. It could have happened in nostalgic Man Mohan Singh's time, but those days are over.

On Chah Bahar, I agree but I am not sure if Iran itself is willing for that. It is a decade now since we started talking and implementing this project but it has not come to fruition.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 26 Mar 2015 16:33

I have a different take on the MFN thing and I may be completely wrong.

During UPA regime, MMS had invested a lot political capital upfront in bettering Indo-Bak relationship. MFN was supposed to be the return for his investment and that made MMS desperate given his need to show something in return. Bakis knowing that played him by dangling the carrot of MFN to extract additional concession but never giving it. (Similar to how they used Al-keeda and OBL to milk the Americans)

OTOH, Modi not having invested any capital, is using can use the MFN issue to essentially portray Bakis as unable or unwilling to keep their commitment and therefore unreliable partners for any negotiation. Now such a stand will weaken Baki position wrt India on various subjects like Kashmir, Siachen, Sir creek, etc. E.g. On Siachen Modi can simply shred all baki arguments by raising Kargil and MFN. Here Bakis seem to be in a hurry to counter Kargil by giving MFN and then using that to showcase the present dispensation's sincerity.

There are benefits to trade for India too especially food staples like potato, tomato and onions have been imported in times of distress to calm tempers in Delhi. Access to Baki market Plus access to Central Asia via Road are the other objective. Of course such access carries with it additional risks as has been well documented by folks.

I am conflicted on the cost/benefit of the whole thing. I would have loved to keep the MFN thing alive as proof of Baki back-stabbing. Having both Kargil and MFN issue would be very useful to push-back bestern pressure on Baki negotiations.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 26 Mar 2015 17:16

SSridhar wrote:With Oil And Gas Pipelines, China Takes A Shortcut Through Myanmar - Eric Meyer, Forbes

Will it mean that Gwadar will not be important in Chinese calculations?
Gwadar was never important for oil and gas as far as the Chinese are concerned.

1. Gwadar could have taken oil to western China but western China already abuts the oil rich Central Asian states.
2. Gwadar to western China would require quite an effort and cost given the terrain and the gradients along the way. Again far easier and cheaper via Central Asia.
3. Oil supply to south-eastern China or the eastern seaboard is easier via Mayanmar is far easier and cheaper.

Pretty obvious if you ask me.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Peregrine » 26 Mar 2015 17:17

Ub Ayeega Mazza :

Saudi Arabia launches Yemen air strikes as alliance builds against Houthi rebels
The US has confirmed its support for an extraordinary international military alliance that is emerging to counter Houthi rebel advances in Yemen.

As Saudi Arabia began pounding the rebels with airstrikes, countries from the Middle East to Pakistan were said to be prepared to commit troops for a ground assault.

Added Later :
Al Arabiya also said planes from Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Sudan, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar and Bahrain were taking part in the operation.

In a rare press conference, the Saudi ambassador to Washington, Adel al-Jubeir, told
reporters that a 10-country coalition had joined the military campaign
in a bid “to protect and defend the legitimate government” of Yemen’s president, Abd-Rabbuh Mansour Hadi. B-RF Gurus :Which is the Tenth Country?

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Last edited by Peregrine on 26 Mar 2015 17:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Peregrine » 26 Mar 2015 17:25

SSridhar wrote:With Oil And Gas Pipelines, China Takes A Shortcut Through Myanmar - Eric Meyer, Forbes

Will it mean that Gwadar will not be important in Chinese calculations?


SSridhar Ji :

Many thanks for this post. I have been eagerly awaiting the Commencement of Operations in Kyuakpyu which now proves the perfidy of Cwapistan's Highel than the Himalayas and Deepel than the Ocean Fliend!

Gwadar was never on for Oil and Natural Gas to Xinjiang for onward transfer to Eastern and Central China as Xinjiang pumps huge amounts of Crude Petroleum and Natural Gas from its own wells to China.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Shreeman » 26 Mar 2015 17:44

Bakis have, in all likelihood sent a nominal bunch to Yemen. Not many, and to keep the TTP types quiet not publicly. But thdm 150,000 arent saudis. They are bakis and iraqis and kuwaitis, and bahrainis and the like.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby SSridhar » 26 Mar 2015 17:48

I believe that the PAF pilots are flying the fighter planes from Saudi airbases attacking the Houthis. Everybody knows the capabilities of the Gulf armed forces.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Peregrine » 26 Mar 2015 17:54

SSridhar wrote:I believe that the PAF pilots are flying the fighter planes from Saudi airbases attacking the Houthis. Everybody knows the capabilities of the Gulf armed forces.


SSridhar Ji :

Pakistan is the Tenth Country in the Coalition Group.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby gakakkad » 26 Mar 2015 18:17

sometimes I think all these things are funny.. gelf countries armed to the teeth..but don't know how to operate a damn thing..so they take help of caveman momeens (which is itself is laughable) ...and all this in order to supposedly take down a bunch of Sunni fundoos in I-rack and Syria...and yet being apprehensive when I-ran achieves some amount of success...eventually this is a deadly circus run by Unkil khan .. So the fundamental question is that is Unkil Uber Chankian ,or totally moronic? what is the goal of all this chaos ? perhaps Unkil spent too much time with its critical ally and developed stone-age fantasies too..

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby CRamS » 26 Mar 2015 19:39

ramana wrote:BC is another of those holier than thou experts. Just let him be.


You may be right, but is he not just stating facts. ModiJi did do a U-turn. He set a pretty high bar on talks with TSP, higher than the MMS/madam that is, and he reversed those unilaterally. So what part of Chellaney's analysis do you disagree with.


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