Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2015

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Tuvaluan » 28 Mar 2015 20:38

The only upside (maybe upside) to directly trading with the pakis is that it cuts out the middle men who are now routing Indian goods to pakistan via Doobai or one of the west asian countries.

All these proposals for LNG to pakis etc., are supposed to moderate their behavior towards India (how exactly is this a bright idea, when those paki fools don't have the money to pay for gas and India itself has high demand for gas) , indicating that the "mandarins" who are convinced about this have already tasted some of Pakistan's finest exports in the form of white power.

Alternative explanation is that just like the Iran-India pipeline, this keeps the appearances of topics that are off the table because pakis will be pakis anyway and anytime they want to talk about wanting more of J&K than what they are currently illegally occupying, these topics and others can be yanked off the tables until the pakis learn to behave (which they never will). All seems like a lot of hot air just to keep the status quo and keeping out third parties from interfering (why third parties are even an issue for India when it comes to illegally occupied Indian territory is beyond me though).

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 28 Mar 2015 20:57

What a conspiracy theory!
http://kashmirwatch.com/opinions.php/20 ... istan.html

Who could be behind attacks in Churches in Pakistan?
...
...
Investigations revealed that Christians from India and other neighbouring countries used to crossover illegally to Pakistan, where they were provided Computerized Pakistani National Identity Cards, passports and other travel documents by criminal networks to enter different countries as transit routes to migrate to other countries. They also got themselves registered with United Nations Human Rights Commission on Refugees (UNHRC) and other human rights organizations to legally strengthen their cases of immigration. This was followed by illegal immigration to foreign countries of their choice, where they use to official take up requests for asylum.

Interestingly, in the same context, Dr. Nazir S. Bhatti, Chief of Pakistan Christian Congress, based in US, wrote a letter to Prime Minister of Thailand, General Prayut Chan-o-cha on 7 March 2015, to stop arrests of Pakistani Christian asylum seekers by Bangkok Police in Thailand as Pakistani Christian asylum seekers have fled from Pakistan after genocide and took refuge in Western countries for safety and security of their lives. It is a matter of concern that without the knowledge of Government of Pakistan or any other authority, thousands of Christian from Pakistan entered illegally to Thailand, at their own, and got themselves registered with United Nations Human Rights Commission on Refugees (UNHRC) to seek asylum there. More than 12,000 Christian from Pakistan are illegally living in Thailand also as asylum.

A day after this letter, which was also advertised through media, the twin attacks near the Christian Churches in Yohanabad in Lahore took place, killing at least 16 innocent people. As a reaction Christian took to the street and started damaging the public and private properties. The Christian mob also burnt two Muslims alive in Lahore and created a state of horror for complete two days. Fortunately, there was no reaction from the other side, which defused the tension. Many analysts view that the motive behind the terrorist attacks was to convince the foreign governments that genocide of Christian in Pakistan is taking place.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 28 Mar 2015 21:02

http://www.dawn.com/news/1172447/two-cz ... 2013-freed

PRAGUE: The Czech government says two Czech tourists who were abducted by gunmen two years ago as they were travelling on a bus through Balochistan have been released. ....a Turkish humanitarian organisation helped negotiate their release.....The kidnappers first released a video of two girls saying that that Dr. Afia, the Pakistani national imprisoned in the US on charges of alleged ties to Al Qaeda, should be set free.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Prem » 28 Mar 2015 22:42

Fourfather Salman Ne Pukara Owrr Paki Dorre Aayye, Mush Uttha Kar Giirgirraye

PM Nawaz offered all potentials of Pak Army to KSA: SPA
RIYADH: Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has expressed full support for Saudia Arabia in the ongoing operation Determination Storm in Yemen, stressing that all potentials of the Pakistani army are offered to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, said Saudi Press Agency (SPA).According to SPA, the two leaders, during a telephonic conversation, also reviewed the bilateral relations between the two countries.“The Saudi Arabian King thanked PM Nawaz Sharif for the support, stressing the depth of relations between the two countries,” said SPA.Also Read: Pakistan contacts neighbouring countries of Yemen for evacuation of citizensIt may be noted here that PM Nawaz while chairing a high-level meeting discussed recent developments in the Middle East and examined the Saudi Arabia's request to join the Gulf-led operation against Houthi rebels in Yemen.According to a statement issued by PM House two days ago, the Premier had said that any threat to Saudi Arabia's integrity would evoke a strong response from Pakistan.Special Foreign Adviser to PM, Sartaj Aziz had also confirmed that top Saudi officials had requested Pakistan to join the operation against Yemeni rebels but no decision in this regard has yet been taken.
Last edited by Prem on 28 Mar 2015 23:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Peregrine » 28 Mar 2015 22:51

Tuvaluan wrote:Peregrineji, given how this nonsense does not change no matter who is in power -- it suggests that the "mandarins" somehow convince the politicians to do this "let's do business" with pakis over and over again, and also convince them that there is no other alternative. Or the business houses in India have considerably more say in Indian policymaking than we acknowledge. Like how the businesses are lining up for the AIIB/Chinese economic summit in the hopes of loans without coordinating with what the govt. has to say about it. But when these same companies get affected by states like China, they demand interference from the Indian govt. why this headless chicken routine by the same guys who want their fingers in everything going on inside India?

Tuvaluan Ji :

I agree with you that it is the Indian “mandarins” who somehow convince the Indian Politicians to agree to “let's do business" however the “Mandarins” are not the final authority.

From the Article "India willing to sell LNG to Pakistan: Pradhan” in the Hindustan Times :
Last year, GAIL India and Inter State Gas Systems, Pakistan, had almost concluded a pact for supply of 5 million metric standard cubic metre a day (MMSCMD) of lean gas to Pakistan for a period of 5 years. However, negotiations stalled after the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi cancelled a round of diplomatic talks with the country last August.

As P. M. Modi has Total Control of his Cabinet one can only feel that the Minister of State (Independent Charge), Petroleum and Natural Gas, Dharmendra Pradhan, had Modi’s approbation before he opened his mouth!

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Tuvaluan » 28 Mar 2015 23:24

As P. M. Modi has Total Control of his Cabinet one can only feel that the Minister of State (Independent Charge), Petroleum and Natural Gas, Dharmendra Pradhan, had Modi’s approbation before he opened his mouth!


But of course, Peregrineji, clearly Modi was convinced enough that doing business with the pakis is the right way forward...or at least, seen to be doing business with pakis. I mean, Mr. Pradhan's statement is no different in terms of verifiability, like the paki govt. statements that they "almost sealed a deal on J&K with Musharraf when he was dictator in charge". In a way, taking these steps also gives India the chance to revoke these steps when the pakis misbehave, as they do periodically..being pakis and all.

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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2015

Postby Peregrine » 28 Mar 2015 23:43

LNG transmission: Mechanism for collecting tariff not in place so far
ISLAMABAD: The government has failed to establish a mechanism for collecting transmission charges on imported liquefied natural gas (LNG) that will be injected into the pipeline network of gas utilities, though the first LNG consignment has reached Port Qasim.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby chetak » 29 Mar 2015 00:02

Tuvaluan wrote:
As P. M. Modi has Total Control of his Cabinet one can only feel that the Minister of State (Independent Charge), Petroleum and Natural Gas, Dharmendra Pradhan, had Modi’s approbation before he opened his mouth!


But of course, Peregrineji, clearly Modi was convinced enough that doing business with the pakis is the right way forward...or at least, seen to be doing business with pakis. I mean, Mr. Pradhan's statement is no different in terms of verifiability, like the paki govt. statements that they "almost sealed a deal on J&K with Musharraf when he was dictator in charge". In a way, taking these steps also gives India the chance to revoke these steps when the pakis misbehave, as they do periodically..being pakis and all.


maybe, it's part of the stoopide kashmir agreement of the BJP-PDP govt?? That the pakis tell the PDP what they want and the PP pushes the BJP buttons??

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby member_28640 » 29 Mar 2015 00:09

From unde TV
Why I Attended Pak Day Reception
Mani Shankar Aiyar | Updated: Mar 24, 2015 12:00 IST
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Mani Shankar Aiyar
(Mani Shankar Aiyar is a Congress MP in the Rajya Sabha)

I was at Pakistan's National Day reception last night, as I usually am. Unfortunately, I missed out on the kebabs and other goodies as I was able to spend only about 15 minutes there; the Hon'ble Vice President had invited me about the same time to an official banquet in honour of his Cuban counterpart. But I went nevertheless to Pakistan House because I believe Pakistan is the most important country on our foreign policy agenda.

I am a regular at Pakistan National Day receptions (so much so that I was once asked to be the Government of India's official representative, predecessor to General VK Singh). This is partly nostalgia. I spent three of the most fruitful and enjoyable years of my life as India's first-ever Consul General in Karachi (Dec 1978- Jan 82), and made so many friends there that 25 years after I returned, no less than 46 of them turned up for my daughter's wedding. They are a warm, friendly, hospitable people and I never cease to be amazed at our inability to turn that affection to political advantage. I also believe that there are at least three major factors that make it imperative for us to seize opportunity by the forelock.

First, the Partition generation in Pakistan, those who were Indians for much of their lives before they became Pakistanis, has virtually phased out. That was the generation that could not but define their own identity in terms of NOT being Indian: "I am a Pakistani because I am not an Indian". The present generations of Pakistanis are Pakistanis - because they are Pakistanis! They were born there, grew up there, have always been Pakistanis and are quite comfortable with their Pakistani passports.

Second, their domestic problems, particularly homegrown sectarianism and terrorism, are so overwhelming that instead of hostility to India being the centerpiece of their national existence, as it was in the immediate aftermath of Partition, India has been so far pushed out of their national consciousness, that in the last two elections, neither India nor even Kashmir figured in any of the principal parties' campaigns.

Third, while hostility against India and Hindus is a running theme in the propaganda of the Islamist extremists, these extremists have so lost sympathy in Pakistan at large that in election after election, their position on the margins is confirmed. Our hostility only helps those in Pakistan who wish to play up that hostility. The mainstream response is to work, if at all possible, towards a viable relationship with India. Working out that viability requires, of course, dialogue - dialogue that, to be eventually fruitful, has to be "uninterrupted and uninterruptible". Yet, we have been shooting ourselves in the foot by repeatedly breaking off the dialogue, converting the relationship into a game of snakes and ladders where we progress significantly up the ladders of mutual cooperation only to let the snakes swallow us up and take us back to the beginning.

The reply I have received to a Question I posed in the just-concluded first half of Parliament's budget session makes the point succinctly: that when we engage diplomatically, cease-fire violations virtually cease, while when we disengage, cease-fire violations increase exponentially. The figures I have been officially supplied show that in the years 2004, '05 and '06, when Dr. Manmohan Singh's special envoy, Ambassador Satinder Lambah, was consistently on the back-channel with his Pakistani interlocutor, Ambassador Tariq Aziz, cease-fire violations were just 1, 6 and 3 respectively. As, however, in 2007, when the dialogue seized up and eventually broke down, ceasefire violations rose to 21, shot up to 80, then 93 in 2012, and peaked in 2013 at 199. 2014 recorded a small decline to 153. There are approximately 150-200 times more violations when war clouds are gathering than when peace is on the horizon.

Does that not show that we have got cause and effect wrong when we insist that cease-fire violations must end for talks to begin? Past experience shows that the best way to end cease-fire violations is for us to talk to each other, rather than at each other.

Among my fellow-guests at the Pakistan reception were, I understand, Mirwaiz Farooq and a team of Hurriyat leaders. I would have liked to meet them, as I usually do at Pakistan National Day receptions. This time I was denied the pleasure for I was at the reception for far too short a time to really walk around. But on previous occasions, the Hurriyat have always greeted me fondly and invited me to Kashmir (an invitation that has, alas, never been followed up!) I greet them not because I agree with them, but because they are fellow human beings, fellow Indians (even if they do not always so regard themselves), and people we have to persuade to at least edge themselves towards us if we want not only Kashmir but also Kashmiris.

That is why Dr. Manmohan Singh's interlocutors - Dileep Padgaonkar, Radha Kumar and MM Ansari - made a point of meeting them and soliciting their views. That there was so little follow up on the interlocutors' report is a tragedy, but one that will only be compounded if the government in Delhi tries to shut them out. Fortunately, J&K Chief Minister Mufti Mohammad Sayeed has a better grasp of ground realities in the Valley than his partners in government.

Of course, as a fellow Indian, it is my right (and duty) to meet the Hurriyat if I can. But do the Pakistanis have a locus standi? It was Atal Behari Vajpayee, none other, who answered that one when he allowed (encouraged?) Pervez Musharraf to meet with the Hurriyat at the time of the Agra summit. Until August last year, it had become standard practice for the Hurriyat to not only be invited to the Pakistan National Day reception, but also to interact with Pakistani dignitaries visiting India. Indeed, the government itself facilitated a visit to Pakistan by the Hurriyat leadership. It has done us no harm - and done the Pakistanis precious little good.

Stupidly, Modi made a proposed routine encounter between the Hurriyat and the Pakistan High Commissioner, on the eve of the Indian Foreign Secretary's visit to Pakistan, the casus belli to kill that initiative at resuming the Indo-Pak dialogue. He has since been impaled on the horns of the dilemma that he has needlessly created for himself - To Talk or NOT to Talk? That is the question!

The process of climbing off the high horse has begun. Not only has the new Foreign Secretary been to Islamabad, Delhi is now beginning to walk the talk on dialogue. Instead of sending so graceless a representative, Modi should have ensured that we were more decently rrrepresented

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby member_28640 » 29 Mar 2015 00:10

Facing issues on my mobile unable to edit or post links

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Tuvaluan » 29 Mar 2015 00:13

maybe, it's part of the stoopide kashmir agreement of the BJP-PDP govt?? That the pakis tell the PDP what they want and the PP pushes the BJP buttons??


PDP and the pakis don't seem to necessarily get along. PDP does what it does due to local J&K politics, and seems to be doing that within limits set by the coalition.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Tuvaluan » 29 Mar 2015 00:16

GopiN wrote:The process of climbing off the high horse has begun. Not only has the new Foreign Secretary been to Islamabad, Delhi is now beginning to walk the talk on dialogue.


What dialogue has been initiated? Please explain and post a link or two, because no such thing has happened yet. MEA went to Pak on SAARC visit like he visited Nepal. Nothing to Indicate that the Indian govt. has resumed its talks after the Paki HC met Hurriyat. Pakis have not changed their stance on Hurriyat either -- there is only deadlock.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 29 Mar 2015 01:16

Mani Sankar Aiyar wrote: " But I went nevertheless to Pakistan House because I believe Pakistan is the most important country on our foreign policy agenda."

I disagree. China is the most important country on India's foreign policy agenda.

PS: also I think MSA has it backwards.

The November 2003 ceasefire on the LoC and the subsequent four years of backchannel negotiations did produce a pronounced lull along the LoC; but what broke the negotiations was not anything that India did, but rather Musharraf v. Chief Justice of Pakistan. It is when the political situation is unsettled in Pakistan; as it was after 2007, that we get attacks like Mumbai 26/11; and LoC ceasefire violations. It is when the political situation stabilizes in Pakistan that the LoC can also calm down. It is coincidental that it is during periods of political stability in Pakistan that India-Pakistan negotiations can occur. I think Mani Shankar Aiyyar has confused cause and effect; it is when Pakistan is politically unsettled that its aggression against India increases, it is when Pakistan is politically relatively stable that negotiations with India are possible, and the LoC is quiet.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby CRamS » 29 Mar 2015 03:43

Tuvaluan wrote:What dialogue has been initiated? Please explain and post a link or two, because no such thing has happened yet. MEA went to Pak on SAARC visit like he visited Nepal. Nothing to Indicate that the Indian govt. has resumed its talks after the Paki HC met Hurriyat. Pakis have not changed their stance on Hurriyat either -- there is only deadlock.


You are putting a spin on ModiJi's climb down, which is fine. I would rather not have our soldiers and people die in exchange for some loss of H&D.

The fact is ModiJi spoke real tough. He cancelled talks with TSP because they met with Harried rats. And he resumed talks unilaterally even as TSP brazenly humors those scum bags. Now, whether he did that as part of SAARC is irrelevant. Why did he have to do that? He could have just sent his foreign sec to other SAARC countries except TSP and stuck to his stand that TSP will get such an engagement if it desists from humoring the Harried rats, and stops sending pigLeTs. So it is a climb down, lets not spin it any other way.

At this moment in time, I see no difference between ModiJi and MMS wrt TSP. Lets wait and see how things evolve before the final verdict on whether ModiJi is any different from his predecessors MMS and Vajpayee.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby SSridhar » 29 Mar 2015 04:52

A_Gupta wrote:I think Mani Shankar Aiyyar has confused cause and effect;

Absolutely.

Why did Kargil happen when the dialogue process was at its height? Precisely to allay Pakistan's imaginary fears and put them to rest forever, Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee visited Minar-e- Pakistan, and the Mausoleum of Allama Iqabal in c. February, 1999. By visiting the Minar-e-Pakistan, considered a symbol of Pakistani identity, Prime Minister Vajpayee implicitly assured Pakistanis that India considered Pakistan as a separate state. The two sides also signed the Lahore Peace declaration !! What happened then?


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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby SSridhar » 29 Mar 2015 06:23

Revisiting Pakistan’s origins - Swaran Singh, The Hindu

Book review of

"Creating a New Medina: State Power, Islam and the Quest for Pakistan in Late Colonial North India"
by Venkat Dhulipala, Cambridge Univ. Press

Historians examining the root causes of Pakistan’s continuing chaos locate these in the ‘insufficiency’ of its national origins: that Pakistan did not have any ‘positive’ national imagination but only a ‘negative’ anti-India identity. The two-nation theory — the very basis of Pakistan — stood busted by its bifurcation in 1971 unleashing processes of Islamisation and nuclearisation, making terrorism an acceptable creed of its state policies with disastrous consequences.

By unearthing enormous evidence of overwhelming support for Pakistan especially in the United Provinces of Agra and Audh (U.P.) this book debunks the mainstream historiography of Pakistan as a sudden emotive construct. It contends that while strands of it can be traced far earlier, the Lahore Resolution of 1940 had finally started a rich debate on Pakistan and shows how Islamic canons gradually overran secular formulations.

Elections to provincial assemblies during the winter of 1936-37 had begun with both the League and Congress displaying tacit understanding with regard to their common enemy: the landlords’ National Agriculturist Party (NAP). Nehru even supported UPML candidates where Congress was not contesting and it won 133 out of 159 general seats it contested, while the League won 29 of the 66 Muslim seats. But what confounds historians is the Congress failure to include the League in a coalition ministry, which fuelled mutual suspicion.

The League was furious with the use of Hindu symbols by Congress. Gandhi’s Wardha Scheme of Education which privileged vocational training around spinning came under fire and the League charged Congress with trying to convert Muslims. It opposed flying of the tricolour by government institutions and the singing of Vande Mataram in schools, claiming these were alien to Muslim culture. It questioned if India constituted a single nation, which laid the basis for its claim for a separate nationhood for Muslims.

The October 1937 Lucknow session of ML elevated Jinnah to the position of Qaid-i-Azam and laid claim for being the ‘sole representative organisation of the Indian Muslim’. Sceptics were emboldened by quirk of fate when Rafiuddin Ahmad was by mistake delivered a letter that Nehru had sent to Rafi Ahmad Kidwai in Jhansi. League candidates brandished it all over and Urdu newspapers carried its translation, as Nehru allegedly discussed in it details of payments to be made to the ulama in return for their support for Congress candidates.

The fact that the Pakistan debate was led by U.P. makes it the centre of Dhulipala’s investigations. Even Jinnah, on return from London in 1934, had started his innings from U.P. rather than Muslim-majority Punjab. Jinnah felt it easier to propagate Pakistan in U.P. than either in Punjab or Bengal where Sikander Hayat Khan and Fazlul Haq were lukewarm, or in Sind, where Allah Bakhsh was hostile to it.

Even within UPML, president Ismail Khan, outwardly supporting Pakistan, had strong faith in Hindu-Muslim unity. After the Lahore Resolution he was tasked to begin talks with the ulama and prominent Muslim intellectuals to draft a blueprint for Pakistan. Raja of Mahmudabad was initially preoccupied with his troubled Shia community and their fate in Sunni Pakistan but was made chairman of the Pakistan wafd. The UPML constituted another committee, under the chairmanship of Syed Sulaiman Nadwi, for the purpose of crafting an Islamic constitution. The same Nadwi was invited by Pakistan in 1949 to head the ‘body of experts’ to help Constituent Assembly in framing its Constitution.

Pakistan as New Medina

The League called for Pakistan Day on April 19, 1940 to contest the Congress claim that it did not have support beyond the 50,000 who had congregated at Lahore. Liaquat claimed that nearly 10,000 meetings were held to affirm Pakistan. Congress leaders like Rajagopalachari tried to change tack and this view was openly supported by several prominent Muslim Congress leaders like K. M. Ashraf, Mian Iftikharuddin, Sajjad Zaheer, Shah Omair and Abus Sattar.

On the eve of the 1945 elections, a section of the ulama broke away from the mainstream Deobandi ulama to provide ML with theological justification. Shabbir Ahmad Usmani glorified Pakistan as the new Medina. He denounced the Muttahida Qaumiyat (composite nationalism) thesis of Mualana Hasain Ahmad Madani and stoutly defended the ilk of Jinnah, even though debunking their western atheist lifestyles. Chaudhry Khaliquzzaman was another influential alim to propagate Pakistan as the new Medina that will protect the Islamic world.

On August 21, 1945, when Viceroy Lord Wavell declared elections for the Constituent Assembly, the League announced this to be a referendum on Pakistan. This heralded an unprecedented debate on all aspects of Pakistan and produced wide-ranging recommendations including suggestions of the League converting 50 million untouchables to completely change Pakistan’s demographic profile.

Ambedkar’s role

Finally, Dhulipala makes a pioneering attempt to bring out the role of Ambedkar in the moulding of Pakistani nationalism. While the debate on both sides was primarily between the League and Congress Muslims, nobody singularly did more to shape it than Ambedkar’s Thoughts on Pakistan dated December 28, 1940. This 400-page monograph was his original report of August for the Independent Labour Party. Produced within four months of the Lahore Resolution, it contained suitably coloured maps showing the borders of Pakistan. During their historic 1944 talks, Gandhi and Jinnah cited the book as an authority on the subject. Ambedkar had supported the League’s demand but also outlined how Hindustan will benefit from such a separation.

The book details how it was on the eve of the famous Lahore session that another book titled Pakistan was authored by Anis al Din Ahmad Rizvi of U.P. presenting a cogent case for a separate state for Muslims. Anis credited poet Muhammad Iqbal for conceptualising Pakistan during his speech to the 1930 Allahabad League session. Outside U.P., however, the word ‘Pakstan’ (with the ‘i’ missing) had appeared much earlier in a pamphlet titled “Now or Never: Are We to Live or Perish Forever”, dated January 28, 1933 that was circulated by its Cambridge-based author, Choudhary Rahmat Ali, at the last Round Table Conference.

Taking the same tradition of iconic writings forward, this encyclopaedic work makes a valuable addition to the ever-expanding literature on Pakistan.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Gagan » 29 Mar 2015 06:23

Bhy! Bhy !!! I ask bhy did the Bak Fauj have to uje a Kushboo on Eye Ass Eye'j logo hain ji?
Image

:(( :((

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Gagan » 29 Mar 2015 06:41

Kargil and 26/11: These are two of the Biggest Fiascos that the Pakistani establishment carried out.
These were noticed internationally in every country of the world. They both showed Pakistan in extremely extremely poor light.

And along with hiding Osama Bin Laden, these three things have virtually ended any diplomatic leverage that Pakistan has anywhere.

The more that the pakistani establishment drags their foot on Zakir-ur-rehman Lakhvi, Hafiz Saeed, Dawood Ibrahim, the more they will be actively isolated by the powers that be.
These three have outlived their usefulness, and are a big liability for Pakistan.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Kashi » 29 Mar 2015 07:25

Gagan wrote:Kargil and 26/11: These are two of the Biggest Fiascos that the Pakistani establishment carried out.
These were noticed internationally in every country of the world. They both showed Pakistan in extremely extremely poor light.


Not to mention Brit-Pakis involved in London 2005 and Aafia Siddiqui and Faisal Shehzad and the Bali bomber being found in Pakistan.

Gagan wrote:And along with hiding Osama Bin Laden, these three things have virtually ended any diplomatic leverage that Pakistan has anywhere.


Has it really? All I see is Unkil continue to bankroll the Pakis and insisting that India engage in talks, EU gladly extended a preferential trade status to the Pakis over us, Bangladesh, Thailand, Vietnam and others.

Gagan wrote:The more that the pakistani establishment drags their foot on Zakir-ur-rehman Lakhvi, Hafiz Saeed, Dawood Ibrahim, the more they will be actively isolated by the powers that be.
These three have outlived their usefulness, and are a big liability for Pakistan.


Hasn't happened so far and is unlikely to happen as long as Unkil and poodle continue to believe and engage in Pakis as a counter weight to India.

Heck despite all this which country has declared Pakis as a state sponsor of terrorism?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby arun » 29 Mar 2015 10:13

Hypocrisy of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan highlighted. Jerusalem Post points out that after years of complaining about US drone strikes, the Punjabi Dominated Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has embraced them in the battle to against Ununiformed Jihadi’s to determine who is the more pure and more green adherent of Mohammaddenism:

Analysis: Pakistan sings new song on drones now that it, not US, is using them

As new drone club members may cease to criticize and even copy US tactics, human rights critics may shift their criticism from the US to the new drone users.

After years of slamming the US for using drones in targeted killings on its soil in which civilians died as collateral damage, Pakistan announced on March 13 that its own drone fleet is now doing the same.

Of course, Pakistan would present distinctions.

It would say it is using drones in mountainous regions to attack terrorists who otherwise are unreachable and where civilians are less likely to be present – and in any case the battle relates to its territory and its civilians.

Pakistan would say it needed a harsh response to a direct and vicious Taliban terrorist attack that slaughtering more than 100 Pakistani children in December.

In contrast, it would say that US drone attacks on al-Qaida or other terrorist members have a much more tenuous connection to self-defense and are operating in foreign territory and against foreign civilians (Pakistan’s).

But make no mistake about it. Pakistan’s less-sophisticated drones are likely to kill, as collateral damage, as many or more civilians as US drones.

So what justifies Pakistan’s seeming double-standard? Part of the answer is that Pakistan’s objection to the US’s use of drones was always less about morality and more an expression of wanting to control the use of force in its territory.

The US regularly justifies drone strikes saying that they actually save civilians lives – being more exact in targeting than manned airplanes.

In contrast, Pakistan justified its new drone fleet as an issue of saving costs in that keeping drones in the air is far cheaper than keeping manned aircraft flying.

It did not mention the issue of casualties.

One human rights critic of both the US and Pakistan told The New Yorker in an extensive article on the issue that Pakistani intelligence over the years may even have intentionally given faulty intelligence to the US on some drone strikes to set the US up for an embarrassment (killing civilians who Pakistan told it were terrorists).

Yet part of the answer still likely relates to Pakistan’s finally understanding the violence the US was coping with when it was fighting the Taliban on Pakistan’s behalf.

In that sense, Pakistan’s joining the list of countries using attack drones (and possibly up to 23 other countries trying to join the list) probably signals more of a break between two groups of critics of the US who coincided on the issue until now, than it does a complete end to criticism.

Many countries that criticized US drone use may now decide that it is simply too necessary in fighting hard-to-find terrorists and too powerful a weapon to forgo. …………………………..


Mention in the Jerusalem Post article that “Pakistani intelligence over the years may even have intentionally given faulty intelligence to the US on some drone strikes to set the US up for an embarrassment” is a reference to an November 24 New Yorker article by Steve Coll titled “The Unblinking Stare : The drone war in Pakistan” (Clicky) where he cites a lawyer from the Islamic Republic named Mirza Shahzad Akbar :

…………………. Collecting target information from the sky is difficult; so is gathering information from a semi-hostile partner on the ground, like I.S.I. Akbar wondered aloud if I.S.I., to discredit the United States in the eyes of Pakistanis and the world, might “sometimes give the C.I.A. false targeting information.” ……………………….


The Jerusalem Post article is available here:

Pakistan sings new song on drones now that it, not US, is using them

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby arun » 29 Mar 2015 10:27

Need to keep citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan out of Indian territory once again endorsed. Pakistani's carrying Assault weapon and Heroin shot dead on the International Border (IB):

BSF shot dead 2 Pakistani smugglers at India-Pakistan border in Amritsar; 12kg heroin, AK 47 rifle seized

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby arun » 29 Mar 2015 10:46

:wink: How dare a Kaafir Dhimmi living in Brotherly Mohammadden majority country dare speak the embarrassing truth about the Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

Chief Judge of the High Court of the Malaysian states of Sabah and Sarawak, Richard Malanjum, makes a well justified comment regards the penchant of illegal migration of citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan :lol: :

“So many of them (Pakistanis) in the state … we do not know whether they are holding genuine documents or otherwise. I am keen to cut the perception that it is easy for foreigners to enter and stay in the state with improper documents”.

Pakistani origin Malaysian politician Akbar Khan Abdulrahman gets his salwar in a twist at this well justified comment of Judge Richard Malanjum:

"As a loyal Malaysian citizen of Pakistani origin, who was born and bred in Sabah, I take offence of the sweeping racist statement uttered by the Chief Justice of Sabah and Sarawak".

From here:

Chief judge slammed for ‘racist’ rant against Pakistanis

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby partha » 29 Mar 2015 12:36

sanjaykumar wrote:India needs this back.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1171802/hunza- ... of-colours

+1. I have felt the same when ever I have checked out pictures of Swat, Chitral, PoK. We gave away too much of precious real estate too easily.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby partha » 29 Mar 2015 12:47

Peregrine wrote:LNG transmission: Mechanism for collecting tariff not in place so far
ISLAMABAD: The government has failed to establish a mechanism for collecting transmission charges on imported liquefied natural gas (LNG) that will be injected into the pipeline network of gas utilities, though the first LNG consignment has reached Port Qasim.

Cheers Image

It's worse than that. It looks like the whole Pakistan gobarmint announcement that they have struck a $21B deal with Qatar for supply of LNG for 15 years for a better price than India got (<-- most important) was a lie which is not surprising. This looks like another Iran-Pakistan pipeline. Gobarmint is taking the quam for a ride.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1172619/qatar-lng-agreement-silent-on-price
Qatar LNG agreement silent on price

ISLAMABAD: The agreement signed with Qatar for the import of liquefied natural gas is silent on the price of LNG, the quantity to be supplied, as well as the date of expiry.

According to a copy of the agreement, available with DawnNews, Qatar can cancel the agreement any time after serving a 90-day notice.

The agreement has laid down no uniform price for LNG consignments to be shipped from Qatar to Pakistan. The prices will vary for different consignments and are to be specified through a confirmation notice.

Surprisingly, this agreement is similar to spot purchasing instead of a state-to-state deal. The deal will become ineffective in case of a war that lasts 30 days, floods, civil disobedience or natural calamity faced by either country.

The Managing Director of Pakistan State Oil, Shahid Islam, and the CEO of Qatar Gas Operating Company, Khalid bin Khalifa al Thani, signed the agreement.

A senior official of the petroleum ministry said the accord comprised strict conditions ostensibly due to the poor financial health of PSO.

The “master agreement” shall become effective upon the date of its execution by the parties and shall remain in full force and effect until terminated by either party. Either party may terminate the deal by giving to the other party no less than 90 days notice. If a confirmation notice has been executed by the parties and not fully performed, termination shall only be effective once all obligations set forth in such confirmation notice and in the master agreement are met.

“The parties may from time to time, by executing a confirmation notice in the form set forth, agree upon the sale and purchase of LNG upon the terms and condition set out in this Master Agreement and the further terms set out in such confirmation notice,” the agreement reads.

Pakistan shall make payment for LNG before the tenth day after completion of the loading process.

If either party fails to pay an amount due under any invoice, default interest shall be paid at a rate of two per cent per annum above the base interest rate.

The contract price (in US$/MMBTU) of LNG sold and purchased under this agreement shall be the price specified in or determined in accordance with the confirmation notice.

Any disputes, controversy or claim arising out of or in relation to the deal, or the breach, which cannot be resolved by discussion in good faith between the parties within 60 days of the party giving notice of such disputes shall be settled by arbitration under the UNCITRAL (United Nations Commission on International Trade Law) Rules of arbitration in force on the date of the dispute.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Gagan » 29 Mar 2015 13:17

So pak fauj is raiding MQM in Karachi.
OTOH, Pervez Mushy is hanging out in Karachi.

Fauj wants to coup out Altaf Hussein, and wants to install Mohajir Mushy into MQM?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Gagan » 29 Mar 2015 13:19

People saying that Altaf Hussein got money from India / RAW for slow breakup of Sindh from Pakistan. Another ISI sponsored salvo across Altaf's bow.

A figure of $41 million being talked about being given to MQM/Altaf

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Vikas » 29 Mar 2015 16:15

CRamS wrote:snip.. So it is a climb down, lets not spin it any other way.

At this moment in time, I see no difference between ModiJi and MMS wrt TSP.


Sarkaar, What really has NM done to get your goat that you have to compare him to MMS. All he has done is send a FS on a SAARC nation yatra and given some thappads to Paki Rangers.
MMS was degraded form of Gujral when it came to TSP.
Anyone expecting NM to declare war on Pakistan is setting hilself up for dispappointment.

Unlike USA, he is not providing aid and weapons to Pakistan to kill Indian soldiers while USA lets Pakis kill Americans in Afghanistan with American money and weapons.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Gagan » 29 Mar 2015 17:29

Mods, how does one not see some speceific person's posts?

For example if one does not want to see CramS's posts, is there some way to do it?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby ArmenT » 29 Mar 2015 17:36

Gagan wrote:Mods, how does one not see some speceific person's posts?

For example if one does not want to see CramS's posts, is there some way to do it?

<offtopic>
Yes. Just add that person to your foes list. This is how to do it:
1. Go to User Control Panel (http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/ucp.php)
2. Click on Friends and Foes (http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/ucp.php?i=168)
3. Click Manage Foes (http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/ucp.php?i=zebra&mode=foes)
4. Add usernames to the box there and click submit
</offtopic>

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Gagan » 29 Mar 2015 17:56

Thanks Armen T, Will do so right away...

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby kancha » 29 Mar 2015 18:19

Lt Col Tahir Azeem commanding a sigs unit at Rawalpindi, shot dead by motorcycle borne men while on a visit in Peshawar.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 29 Mar 2015 19:34

Shekar Gupta on the Pakistani Security State:
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/shek ... 26022.html

It is remarkable how much free speech and criticism even this security establishment allows the mostly western-educated intellectual class. But with one unwritten condition: it must remain confined to English, which is a marginalised discourse here. Follow some of Pakistan's finest, most courageous minds-many of them young women-in the new media. They have enormously more spunk than us in India. But all in English. Urdu is a different matter altogether. English publications' circulation is minuscule compared to Urdu and there isn't even one news channel in English, though they have in Mubashir Luqman someone who can by himself outshout all our English prime-time warriors, including the champion of champions. My friends tell me the story of Raza Rumi, a fine, brave liberal commentator and patriot. He was ignored as long as he confined himself to English. Then one day he succumbed to the temptation of TV, obviously in Urdu, and continued speaking the same honest truth. His car was attacked, his driver died and he escaped with a bullet and is now exiled in Washington. Do Google his writings.

Haqqani and other Pakistani liberals highlight the downside of this imbalance. In a country of 20 crore people where the median age is 23, younger than India's 29, nearly 46 per cent young people do not go to school. They walk the streets, jobless, aimless, lacking in knowledge of the world and self-esteem, totally alienated with the elites who are now physically quarantined from them. They are easy victims for the maulvi, madrasa, Kalashnikovs, Lashkars and jihad. It is this wasted generation that India has been fighting, from Kashmir to Parliament 2001 to Mumbai 26/11. And this is precisely what slaughtered the Pakistani army's children in Peshawar and is drawing this brutal fightback, with artillery, Huey Cobra helicopter gunships, fighter jets. And the nation is cheering this war on some of its own people. I cannot say for sure, but can speculate with some authority on why the armed forces held a parade, a formidable show of power, on Pakistan Day last week after a seven-year break in tradition. My guess: it was to say, don't worry, we are back, we call the shots and we are the only ones you can trust.


Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/shek ... 26022.html

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Vikas » 29 Mar 2015 19:41

The reply I have received to a Question I posed in the just-concluded first half of Parliament's budget session makes the point succinctly: that when we engage diplomatically, cease-fire violations virtually cease, while when we disengage, cease-fire violations increase exponentially. The figures I have been officially supplied show that in the years 2004, '05 and '06, when Dr. Manmohan Singh's special envoy, Ambassador Satinder Lambah, was consistently on the back-channel with his Pakistani interlocutor, Ambassador Tariq Aziz, cease-fire violations were just 1, 6 and 3 respectively. As, however, in 2007, when the dialogue seized up and eventually broke down, ceasefire violations rose to 21, shot up to 80, then 93 in 2012, and peaked in 2013 at 199. 2014 recorded a small decline to 153. There are approximately 150-200 times more violations when war clouds are gathering than when peace is on the horizon.


Interesting Passage!

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby CRamS » 29 Mar 2015 19:58

VikasRainaJi,

Lets see how ModiJi's TSP policies play out. As I said, while I am not happy with what I am seeing, and I never expected him to declare war on TSP or anything, I'd like to see how his trajectory evolves. Hopefully, he does not continue with this beaten path of "engagement" and comes up with some out of the box thinking.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Tuvaluan » 29 Mar 2015 20:07

CRamS wrote:I would rather not have our soldiers and people die in exchange for some loss of H&D.


If you check vikasraina's post, keeping the pakis thinking that a resolution is in sight is the best way to stop pakis from their triggerhappy firing at the border. Pakis won't exactly make it easy on themselves to move towards a resolution and India is not going to hand over territory to a country that spawns terrorists by the millions and directs them towards India.

We need more incidents such as the one about the Paki Lt. Col. getting shot in Islamabad -- all actions that increase such incidents and decrease border violations is more likely to save Indian lives, and if that means "engagement" in the form of periodic talks that achieve nothing (which is not too different from the past, but it is not like the pakis have changed their behavior in the past two decades).

Just because pakis operate on a H&D paradigm does not mean India does so when dealing with pakis...India has more responsible politicians and people than the pakis for certain. India has larger fish to fry and more important "games" to focus on.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Paul » 29 Mar 2015 20:11

Alam, the mythologised Sabre pilot who claimed to have shot down 11 Indian fighter aircraft in 1965-the first fighter ace claim since World War II (fully disputed by IAF and Indian war historians)-was a Bengali and became a greater hero because he stayed back in Pakistan even after 1971.

Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/shek ... 26022.html



Correction - MM Alam was a Bihari, not a Bengali. Reportedly had the ear of even Gulbuddin Hekmatyar

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby kancha » 29 Mar 2015 20:39

kancha wrote:Lt Col Tahir Azeem commanding a sigs unit at Rawalpindi, shot dead by motorcycle borne men while on a visit in Peshawar.


Might be more to it than meets the eye

Dawn

According to Hayatabad Police, two assailants on a motorcycle targeted Col Tahir Azeem in Abaseen Market when he was on his way home from a nearby mosque (piety didn't help, apparently).

According to reports, Col Tahir Azeem’s brothers— Waqas and Shakil— were also shot dead in separate attacks in 2004 and 2005 (could be related to a family feud, motive should become clear in days to come). Both Waqas and Shakil, however, had no association with the armed forces.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby member_23370 » 29 Mar 2015 23:13

Need more such attacks on the paki army. The TTP has been quiet lately.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby A_Gupta » 30 Mar 2015 05:57

Socially Responsible Physicians seemingly give Pakistan more cover for "We are victim onlee of terrorism".
http://www.psr.org/resources/body-count.html


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