Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2015

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Prem » 14 Apr 2015 05:36

ramana wrote:More likely KSA activated its minions in TSP to drum up support.
Hafiz Suar is a likely candidate to lead the TSP misguided into Yemen for he will get their women.


Q is if JUD is likely to use Yemen as pathway to Whoorland then does it provide Indian legitimate cause to support Houthi in wide opening this Door to Jaanat for next 10-15 years. Either way IMHO, Bakistan is getting into Interesting time which may results in Interesting consequences. Invincible Dove must be watching observing the scene with smile.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby arun » 14 Apr 2015 05:39

During the first ever visit to India by a North Korean Foreign Minister, India conveyed its security concerns to North Korea over supply of its missile technology to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

India should not agree to North Korea’s request for humanitarian aid for passing on nuclear weapon and missile technology to the Islamic Republic :

Read more at:

India conveys concern to North Korea over missile tech supply to Pakistan

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby shiv » 14 Apr 2015 05:52

WRT to Fair's article linked by Jhujar earlier, Hafiz Saeed is "moving away" from Kashmir to a faraway target, Yemen. This is an interesting tactic in my view. It could mean that the man is under sufficient pressure for him to try and pass himself off as a big jihadi fighting for all of Islam and the entire ummah rather than just Kashmir, giving him an excuse to turn his attention away from Kashmir momentarily to score Islamic brownies.

But with Cashmere being so popular in Shitistan, why would Saeed need to do that? Saeed has personal axe to grind after all - one of his sons was given his 72 in Kashmir by Indian forces. But Saeed lives under heavy security. In this case Saeed is "going against the instincts" of Pakistanis and is acting as the Army's tool to make a case for involvement in Yemen. This could make him less popular - but the army needs it because it needs the money.If India builds up enough capability by co-opting disgruntled Pakis - Saeed could be bumped off by a soosai. Saeed needs to make sure that Pakistan will burn if he is bumped off.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Kashi » 14 Apr 2015 06:03

shiv wrote:But with Cashmere being so popular in Shitistan, why would Saeed need to do that? Saeed has personal axe to grind after all - one of his sons was given his 72 in Kashmir by Indian forces. But Saeed lives under heavy security.


Could it be that he has come in possession of knowledge that he's likely to be given the same treatment by "someone" unless he "mends his ways". Pure speculation on my part, but after the reports of a RAW party in Karachi last year which was on the verge of halaling Dawood before being called off, HS (who is likely to be privy to much finer and subtler details) may have reasons to believe that him being dispatched to meet his son was a real possibility.

Of course, diverting his flock to Yemen would be fine way of letting them aim for their 72s and not turn on him.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby partha » 14 Apr 2015 07:21

shiv wrote:
The Foreign Policy Essay: Whether or Not Pakistan Will Join the War in Yemen May Depend on a Group You’ve Probably Never Heard Of
By C. Christine Fair and Ali Hamza
http://www.lawfareblog.com/2015/04/the- ... -heard-of/


I constantly see on BRF comments that devalue and dismiss this woman - mainly because she is "not held in high esteem in America". For BRF this is astoundingly blinkered. Her value in America should not allow our views to be coloured. Here she is doing us Indians a favour. She is analysing Lashkar e Toibas tweets and social media interaction. No Indian does that or get his view published in the media. She also clearly mentions the connection with Mumbai.

This woman's work needs to be leveraged. In cases where desis maybe even Kandle Kissers listen to and find goras credible - Fair is an asset to be used. Her lack of value value in America is completely irrelevant. If one billion Indians can hear and understand what Fair says, what the US says or does to Pakistan will become irrelevant. We need to convert Kandle kisser Indians using Fair's views, not waste effort trying to understand Americans views of Fair.


shivji, I don't think anyone here "devalues or dismisses" Ms Fair. Just that caution is urged because of her well known flip flops. I agree with you that her analysis on Pakistan is valuable. Indian media (if not MSM then at least the new online media) should publicize her articles on Pakistan since many fence sitting Indians will be better convinced by analysis of western experts compared to the Indian experts (unfortunately). shankhadinda bandrene teertha (it is holy water only if it comes from a Shankha).

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Vriksh » 14 Apr 2015 07:22

China, Pakistan and Turkey will be net winners in the conflict in the M.E. I am willing to bet that a Pakistani actor : Hafeez or even Parvez Musharraf type will soon be the joint custodian of the two mosques within the next decade.

I will not be surprised if after entering Yemen (does not matter whether as state or non state actors) Pakistanis turn their gaze on the 2 mosques ably supported by the Turkish counterparts. China will help in this effort in return for cheap oil and Military bases in the ME. It also aligns with the Islamic Imam Mehdi and Dajjal mythology that form the bedrock of JuD / ISI / TSPA types

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Anujan » 14 Apr 2015 07:29

Both Pakistan and Saudi Arabia should resolve all outstanding issues through talks, increased trade, visa liberalization and people to people contacts. There is no option but to talk.

Also look at the irony:

Pakistan gets money from Massa saying that one day it will fight terrorists, and swallows all the money, does nothing :mrgreen:

Then Pakistan gets money from the Saudis, saying that one day it will supply terrorists, swallows all the money and does nothing. :rotfl:

Saudis should have given money to Pakistan to fight terrorism instead and Massa should have given money to Pakistan to supply terrorists. Both would have achieved their objectives as Pakis do the exact opposite 8)

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 14 Apr 2015 07:35

Vriksh wrote:China, Pakistan and Turkey will be net winners in the conflict in the M.E. I am willing to bet that a Pakistani actor : Hafeez or even Parvez Musharraf type will soon be the joint custodian of the two mosques within the next decade.

I will not be surprised if after entering Yemen (does not matter whether as state or non state actors) Pakistanis turn their gaze on the 2 mosques ably supported by the Turkish counterparts. China will help in this effort in return for cheap oil and Military bases in the ME. It also aligns with the Islamic Imam Mehdi and Dajjal mythology that form the bedrock of JuD / ISI / TSPA types

I can imagine a scenario where TSPA sends a couple of divisions for defending makka-madina thus in effect becoming the guardian of those holy places.

What is it that prevents this from happening?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Anujan » 14 Apr 2015 07:40

Shankk wrote:One thing GCC can do is to threaten Pakistan that India will be invited to OIC and will be given some potent rights. That will get paki chaddi in a twist. They tried everything in their capacity to block India out of it so it will rub in a great deal that the country formed out of India in the name of Islam has to share table with India along with other Islamic countries.


Most of Paki forex is from foreign remittances. Bulk of it comes from the middle east. If GCC wants to squeeze Paki testimonials, they will send back Paki workers from the middle east.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby partha » 14 Apr 2015 07:42

^
Anujanji, it's also true that GCC needs Paki workers.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Anujan » 14 Apr 2015 07:46

^^
Well they could make remittances harder.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Vriksh » 14 Apr 2015 07:50

KLNMurthy nothing prevents this eventuality. It will happen when Chinese influence in world affairs starts eclipsing US power. My estimate about 5 years or so.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 14 Apr 2015 07:53

Vriksh wrote:KLNMurthy nothing prevents this eventuality. It will happen when Chinese influence in world affairs starts eclipsing US power. My estimate about 5 years or so.

So, at that point can India claim soothasian brotherhood and take its fair share of haram sharif management? And will that help to make Islam more SDRE?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby saip » 14 Apr 2015 07:55

partha wrote:^
Anujanji, it's also true that GCC needs Paki workers.

Why? Bangla Deshis can't replace them?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Vriksh » 14 Apr 2015 08:08

The ME great game will be played by 3 entities: Anglo-Saxon Christians (USA,UK, parts of NATO) etc, Han Chinese, Islamic Turko-Persians (loosely Pakistan, Turkey, Iran). Russia could be a referee mediating all players and sometimes playing in parts or providing equipment.

Historically India has not shown any of the ruthlessness associated with the above three. We will essentially be airlifting our citizens from the expanding warzone. At best we will fight a rearguard action on our frontiers rather than in the ME unless things drastically change.

We need to improve our Mil-Ind complex to compete with the Chinese, Russian, American, Euros stuff. When that happens we can play in ME. Only those with proven genocidal and bloodsport credentials can play at Haram Sharif management sweepstakes.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Shankk » 14 Apr 2015 08:10

Anujan wrote:Also look at the irony:

Pakistan gets money from Massa saying that one day it will fight terrorists, and swallows all the money, does nothing

Then Pakistan gets money from the Saudis, saying that one day it will supply terrorists, swallows all the money and does nothing.


Amazing. Well put. :mrgreen: :rotfl: :mrgreen:

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Shankk » 14 Apr 2015 08:16

Anujan wrote:Most of Paki forex is from foreign remittances. Bulk of it comes from the middle east. If GCC wants to squeeze Paki testimonials, they will send back Paki workers from the middle east.


Pakistan would be a rational entity if they fear loss of money. Nothing gets them into action like the threat of India doing anything to them. They have mortgaged the whole country in their dream to match India, just that they are smug about it now because the whole world laughs at their claims.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby khan » 14 Apr 2015 08:21

I think the best possible outcome for India is:
1. The west comes to some sort of understanding with Iran
2. Pakistan gets sucked into Yemen and hopefully Syria.

This will enable the West to stay neutral and play both sides. India will obviously use Iran as a proxy against Pakistan. Let the faithful behead each other and leave the kafirs alone.

Ameen

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby shiv » 14 Apr 2015 08:53

partha wrote:shivji, I don't think anyone here "devalues or dismisses" Ms Fair. Just that caution is urged because of her well known flip flops. I agree with you that her analysis on Pakistan is valuable. Indian media (if not MSM then at least the new online media) should publicize her articles on Pakistan since many fence sitting Indians will be better convinced by analysis of western experts compared to the Indian experts (unfortunately). shankhadinda bandrene teertha (it is holy water only if it comes from a Shankha).

Fair is a temperamental woman. She blocked me out of Twitter after my second message to her which touched a raw nerve. And my activity on Twitter is currently barely above zero. But she cannot withdraw her book or do a flip flop about the Pakistani army now.

Sadly she is less biased than our TV channels who are looking at their bottom lines and do not consider the truth about the Pakistani army to be good for their revenues. No India TV channel is interested in either doing serious background reading about Pakistan or publishing the truth. But we follow those media and by and large swallow their reporting without question as long as the report does not offend us - even if the report is a white lie or an outright lie. That is the power the media hold over us.

On the other hand we have this one person who says all the right things about the Pakistan army and we find ourselves compelled to speak of other things she says or does. And that is a devaluation of her worth. It is a tactical error. Just as bringing a Paki general on Times Now is a tactical blunder, allowing him to get away unconditionally with his lies, our "conditional acceptance" of Fair and her views only hurts us. Both are self goals in their own ways.

For us on BRF, hammering away at propaganda, Indian TV channels and the A-monkey-Asha media are not our allies. Bollywood are not our allies. They all make at least some revenue out of Pakistan either directly or via international partners. Fair can make no money from Pakis. She is a person who is less biased than our own media no matter what she has said about India.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby shiv » 14 Apr 2015 09:04

KLNMurthy wrote:
Vriksh wrote:China, Pakistan and Turkey will be net winners in the conflict in the M.E. I am willing to bet that a Pakistani actor : Hafeez or even Parvez Musharraf type will soon be the joint custodian of the two mosques within the next decade.

I will not be surprised if after entering Yemen (does not matter whether as state or non state actors) Pakistanis turn their gaze on the 2 mosques ably supported by the Turkish counterparts. China will help in this effort in return for cheap oil and Military bases in the ME. It also aligns with the Islamic Imam Mehdi and Dajjal mythology that form the bedrock of JuD / ISI / TSPA types

I can imagine a scenario where TSPA sends a couple of divisions for defending makka-madina thus in effect becoming the guardian of those holy places.

What is it that prevents this from happening?


Actually I have not seen any evidence that this has not happened in the past, from time to time. I might be mistaken but there was once a riot by Iranian pilgims in Makkah which was sorted out using Paki mercenaries. I am willing to be corrected on this count. Pakistanis have apparently regularly flown Saudi aircraft.

Two divisions is a huge number and I don't see Pakistan sending that many. But 5000 is the sort of number that I am guesstimating at present. Any low ranking or mid ranking officers who go with those men will have to be completely subservient to a Saudi boss. This will not be good for any army but it's Pakistan's choice. But if 20,000 Paki troops get into Saudi Arabia and something goes wrong - Saudi wil not be able to handle them - so those trops have to be carefully selected and split up into small units that cannot threaten Saudi sultans if there is any anger or disenchantment.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby JE Menon » 14 Apr 2015 10:01

KLNMurthy wrote:
I can imagine a scenario where TSPA sends a couple of divisions for defending makka-madina thus in effect becoming the guardian of those holy places.

What is it that prevents this from happening?


The possibility they won't leave when asked.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby JE Menon » 14 Apr 2015 10:04

partha wrote:^
Anujanji, it's also true that GCC needs Paki workers.


They can be replaced in minutes by other "south Asians" - after all we are the same people, same food, same culture, same same.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Gus » 14 Apr 2015 10:24

other than the 'india involved in balochistan' thing, has she made any other deliberate lies about india?

i am willing to let that slide as i think she was offered a quid pro quo for some other access (my own guess, no proof) and this was way before the falling out with the isi.

since then, her views are practically brf on pak. i have liberally used her as source material in many places to buttress my arguments. and she being an all american person with no indianness (blood, religion, relationships etc) does have credibility in some circles.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby ArmenT » 14 Apr 2015 10:34

Jhujar wrote:
ramana wrote:More likely KSA activated its minions in TSP to drum up support.
Hafiz Suar is a likely candidate to lead the TSP misguided into Yemen for he will get their women.


Q is if JUD is likely to use Yemen as pathway to Whoorland then does it provide Indian legitimate cause to support Houthi in wide opening this Door to Jaanat for next 10-15 years. Either way IMHO, Bakistan is getting into Interesting time which may results in Interesting consequences. Invincible Dove must be watching observing the scene with smile.

It will be interesting times if Hafiz Saeed supplies the manpower, especially if they are sent to Saudis via ship (since I doubt they'll want to use expensive airplanes to transport the unwashed rabble). Pakistanis can't use a warship to transport/escort them, because then they'll be accused of using military hardware to support terror groups. All the USN or IN have to do is wait for the ship to leave port and then sink it. After all, it is filled with people who are members of a banned terror group, so it is a perfectly legit target and it isn't an act of war against Pakistan to sink it :twisted:.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 14 Apr 2015 10:45

On UnFair my view is that use her comments/papers/research on Bakistan related issues wherever it fits into our narrative and it gels with ours on a whole lot of issues. her research does confirm many of our thoughts/speculations/theories.

My biggest reservations about her are her views on BJP. She once said in one of the videos that Modi was like a minor <wizard or whatever is the term used for KKK clan leaders) of the KKK. That seems to suggest is that BJP is KKK (Actually perhaps she perhaps had RSS == KKK). That is not done at all.

Now my understanding is that BJP is similar Republican party and there are many US political leaders who have stated and continue to state boldly that US is founded on Judo-Christian principles and actively quote bible. If there is nothing wrong with that then why should she find fault with BJP.

However, what I have observed is that she makes fewer and fewer references to BJP/RSS with each passing video. Not an analysis but just an observation based on a very meager sample of videos.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby chetak » 14 Apr 2015 10:57

pankajs wrote:On UnFair my view is that use her comments/papers/research on Bakistan related issues wherever it fits into our narrative and it gels with ours on a whole lot of issues. her research does confirm many of our thoughts/speculations/theories.

My biggest reservations about her are her views on BJP. She once said in one of the videos that Modi was like a minor <wizard or whatever is the term used for KKK clan leaders) of the KKK. That seems to suggest is that BJP is KKK (Actually perhaps she perhaps had RSS == KKK). That is not done at all.

Now my understanding is that BJP is similar Republican party and there are many US political leaders who have stated and continue to state boldly that US is founded on Judo-Christian principles and actively quote bible. If there is nothing wrong with that then why should she find fault with BJP.

However, what I have observed is that she makes fewer and fewer references to BJP/RSS with each passing video. Not an analysis but just an observation based on a very meager sample of videos.


She says that her brother/husband is with the US forces. guys/gals (and most of their immediate and extended families) in the forces mostly tend to be right wingers, some more extreme than others. If she is from the same mix then she may well be a camouflaged xtian fundoo upset at anti conversion stand of the BJP/Modi.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby member_22733 » 14 Apr 2015 11:00

UnFair also has a pretty interesting stand on Cashmere and Balochistan (she did repeat Balochistan after being shunted by ISI).

I agree that she is the most dependable "publicly acceptable" voice that reflects BRFs views on most things. She should be better utilized better by Indian media persons. Misfortunately we all know how they are.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 14 Apr 2015 11:04

There is a new video of her talk at some euro institute and I haven't seen it posted. She does a Kashmir issue for dummies in very simple terms in the first 15 mins that ends with Bakis have no claim on Kashmir.

Perhaps someone can make a separate video out of that and circulate amongst the jingos to get their basics facts right. Coming from a Gori will make it much more palatable for the Aman-ka-Tamasha type.
Last edited by pankajs on 14 Apr 2015 11:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby ArmenT » 14 Apr 2015 11:07

chetak wrote:She says that her brother/husband is with the US forces. guys/gals (and most of their immediate and extended families) in the forces mostly tend to be right wingers, some more extreme than others. If she is from the same mix then she may well be a camouflaged xtian fundoo upset at anti conversion stand of the BJP/Modi.

Nope. She's said a few times that she leans liberal. Incidentally, studies also show that while US officers tend to lean conservative, the enlisted population lean towards liberal. Also, you'll be surprised by how many conservatives are not necessarily hardcore right wingers and are actually moderates.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby ArmenT » 14 Apr 2015 11:09

pankajs wrote:There is a new video of her talk at some euro institute and I haven't seen it posted. She does a Kashmir issue for dummies in very simple terms in the first 15 mins that ends with Bakis have no claim on Kashmir.

Link please?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 14 Apr 2015 11:10

I was too lazy to post it when I viewed it .. will have to look at her feed to find it. I am mostly plugged out of all NEWS media and most opinion maker feeds at the moment.

Ok .. while I am scanning her feed .... unfair didi is having a lot of fun these days
Husain Haqqani @goodhaqqani · 14h 14 hours ago

@DigestSas @CChristineFair Time to show my patriotism. No more hunting endangered bird for them & no more Paksitani escorts for UEA ********
Taimoor Khan @TaimoorKhanN · 14h 14 hours ago

@CChristineFair You are Pakistani obsessed Indian-boot licking person. Did a Pakistani hurt you? . @myraemacdonald @takhalus
Christine Fair @CChristineFair · 14h 14 hours ago

Pakistanis howling about Kashmir, PLEASE read the resolution on the plebiscite. It's here; just click and read. Easy. http://www.cfr.org/india/un-security-co ... hmir/p9130
Christine Fair @CChristineFair · 14h 14 hours ago

If another Pakistani howls about the plebiscite and UNSC Res 47 w/0 reading it I'm climbing through the intertubes & giving them a thappar!

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Atri » 14 Apr 2015 11:20

Thoughts on Pakistan and Islam - With respect to India and Hindus respectively.

Islam, like Pakistani Kabila, is a death cult which thrives upon killing kaafirs and infidels. The only rational way to "deal" with these two entities is to deny them any chance to kill Kaafirs (infidels). They then turn on themselves and start killing each-other.

https://storify.com/Kal_Chiron/thoughts ... _campaign=

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 14 Apr 2015 11:21

shiv wrote:...
Actually I have not seen any evidence that this has not happened in the past, from time to time. I might be mistaken but there was once a riot by Iranian pilgims in Makkah which was sorted out using Paki mercenaries. I am willing to be corrected on this count. Pakistanis have apparently regularly flown Saudi aircraft.

Two divisions is a huge number and I don't see Pakistan sending that many. But 5000 is the sort of number that I am guesstimating at present. Any low ranking or mid ranking officers who go with those men will have to be completely subservient to a Saudi boss. This will not be good for any army but it's Pakistan's choice. But if 20,000 Paki troops get into Saudi Arabia and something goes wrong - Saudi wil not be able to handle them - so those trops have to be carefully selected and split up into small units that cannot threaten Saudi sultans if there is any anger or disenchantment.

my thought is like this: if you beg for military help from someone else, implicitly that means you are weak and they are strong. Normally, sooner or later the strong party will get the idea that, as long as they are strong and their host is weak, why not simply take over their hosts resources, business, etc. Or they could take protection money I suppose, but for a country with a population the size of pakistan it makes logical sense to think about sneaking in that military to capture the resources of arabia--makka madina, oil, sand, space etc. for lebensraum, since by definition the saudis are anyway not strong enough on their own to prevent someone else from taking over their stuff. Nazis have done it, Soviets did it, and garden-variety arabian or central asian muslims didn't even need an invitation to do it.

Pakistan is probably a special case, when all is said and done I suspect they have too much of the soothasian non-expansionist gene in their dna, so they might actually obey saudi orders, kill a bunch of fellow muslims, and then depart like good boys, or stay and take orders from the arabians. But maybe I am wrong, and they have internalized enough of the Muslim-mughalai-mongol expansionism in their dna to actually pull off a conquest of arabia.

In that scenario, is there any benefit for India in considering piling on, as a fellow soothasian country boasting more muslims than pakistan? In a manner of speaking India is the militarily most powerful Muslim country in the world (I mean, we do keep trying to get into the OIC meetings and TSP keeps pushing us out, has been happening for decades on end now).

India and pakistan coming together to guarantee the neutrality and free access to makka-madinah sacred islamic zone, carved out of soothi arabia? At least the idea would be something to challenge the papi jhapi wallahs with: if you think pakistan is a such a brotherly country of India, and Indian Muslims are so wonderful and secular, why don't you support a joint campaign to bring makka-madina into the modern age, under the joint auspices of India and its paki brothers?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby KLNMurthy » 14 Apr 2015 11:23

Gus wrote:other than the 'india involved in balochistan' thing, has she made any other deliberate lies about india?

i am willing to let that slide as i think she was offered a quid pro quo for some other access (my own guess, no proof) and this was way before the falling out with the isi.

since then, her views are practically brf on pak. i have liberally used her as source material in many places to buttress my arguments. and she being an all american person with no indianness (blood, religion, relationships etc) does have credibility in some circles.


I think shiv is right, we shouldn't care about Fair's correctness or goodness or fairness, we should just take the opportunity to exploit her words for nefarious Hindu Right propaganda purposes.

But present Hindu Right mostly stink at propaganda, or even basic communication.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 14 Apr 2015 11:25

Start @ 1:45 to 21:40
SPP at CEU @SPPCEU · Apr 9

Watch @CChristineFair's full discussion at @CCNRatSPP on the Pakistan Army's way of war https://youtu.be/JMgijhexkqE

Repetitive and she goes into political science, etc was why I skipped posting it but she does a *Kashmir for dummies* that is good enough to be floated as a separate video.
Last edited by pankajs on 14 Apr 2015 11:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Yemen, LeT and Pakistan - Part IV

Postby SSridhar » 14 Apr 2015 11:47

shiv wrote:WRT to Fair's article linked by Jhujar earlier, Hafiz Saeed is "moving away" from Kashmir to a faraway target, Yemen. This is an interesting tactic in my view. It could mean that the man is under sufficient pressure for him to try and pass himself off as a big jihadi fighting for all of Islam and the entire ummah rather than just Kashmir, giving him an excuse to turn his attention away from Kashmir momentarily to score Islamic brownies.

But with Cashmere being so popular in Shitistan, why would Saeed need to do that? Saeed has personal axe to grind after all - one of his sons was given his 72 in Kashmir by Indian forces. But Saeed lives under heavy security. In this case Saeed is "going against the instincts" of Pakistanis and is acting as the Army's tool to make a case for involvement in Yemen. This could make him less popular - but the army needs it because it needs the money.If India builds up enough capability by co-opting disgruntled Pakis - Saeed could be bumped off by a soosai. Saeed needs to make sure that Pakistan will burn if he is bumped off.

Shiv, I have not had time to read yet C.Fair's article. But, I have a divergent view on why, if it is true, Hafeez Saeed would be turning his attention to Yemen.

The spate of public support meetings being organized in Pakistan now is being organized by Ahl-e-Sunnat-Wa'l-Jama'at (ASWJ), the erstwhile SSP, the mother of all Sunni Wahhabi/Deobandi terrorist tanzeems in Pakistan. Its emir, Maulana Muhammad Ahmed Ludhianvi, is a close friend of the Sharifs and the PML-N has an electoral understanding with him and ASWJ. The Punjab government is very generous with him. He is the modern-day Pakistani equivalent of Muawaiyah in slaughtering the Shi'a. On the other hand, LeT follows the Ahl-e-Hadith maslak which, though closely resembling Wahhabism, has some differences too. No doubt the Ahl-e-Hadiths do consider the Shi'a as kafir, but Hafeez Saeed did not have such an anti-Shi'a bias and on many occasions, he has even urged unity between the sects to confront the common enemy the Yahud, the Hanud and the Nasara. In my opinion, this is an indicator as to why he is turning to Yemen now, though it may look contradictory. Let me explain.

I believe that LeT learnt a bitter lesson after 9/11 when its hoardes of jihadists which it had carefully trained over long periods began deserting it for a more action-packed FATA frontier, initially under various warlords and later under a more unified Punjabi Taliban and the TTP. We all know the investments that the LeT makes into training its cadres and this attrition caused serious problems for the LeT. It cannot let go of its trained cadre because it also impacted its popularity and thus the pipeline of foot soldiers. That would impact the revenues too. The Pakistani Army/ISI also disliked the exodus for the same reasons. Also, such a hijra gave its enemies the much needed manpower to attack it too. So, LeT had to enlarge its scope of activities, with the help of the Pakistani Army, the navy and the ISI and it led to audacious fidayeen attacks on the Red Fort (though it happened before 9/11), the J&K Assembly, the Indian Parliament and the 26/11. So, LeT has a deep motive and need to keep its sheep together.

In order to keep its cadres together, it did a couple of things. It sent them to FATA to fight shoulder-to-shoulder with the Punjabi Taliban, but against the occupying American and NATO forces. But, the Punjabi Taliban and the TTP have a serious misgiving with the LeT because of the latter's deep nexus with the Pakistani Army, a symbol that the former were relentlessly attacking. Therefore, the LeT offered its services to the Haqqani group which used the LeT to mount attacks on Indian interests in Afghanistan. It helped to some extent and all parties involved - the Haqqanis, Hafeez Saeed and the Army/ISI - were happy for multiple reasons.

But, then tragedy struck. In the form of the unravelling of the TTP. Whether it was due to the machinations of the ISI or the disaffection caused by the election of Mullah 'FM Radio' Fazlullah or the fight among the Mehsud tribes or the general loss of leadership due to drone attacks etc, is immaterial for this discussion. What matters is that there was a 4-way split. My earlier post on that is here.. Except for the pro-sarkari Asmatullah Muawaiya, the rest got integrated with the IS which is naturally attracting jihadists widely in Peshawar and even elsewhere. Certainly in many Afghan provinces. A series of incidents not favourable to the LeT happened. Fazlullah hit the Army School in Peshawar, Zerb-e-Azb was sharpened, Haqqanis were forced out of FATA (mostly due to US pressure), LeT had to lie low. A friendlier regime emerged in Kabul and the Army/ISI does not want LeT to participate in actions within Afghanistan. LeT is jobless.

The Pakistani Army, for obvious reasons, does not want the IS to gain foothold in Af-Pak lest it would lose its backyard. The LeT fears the same and naturally fears more attrition too. It could even become irrelevant because the jihadists and the Islamists always side with the group that displays more violence and by implication more refined Islam. Unfortunately, the Pakistani Army-LeT combine is unable to do much with India because of the very muscular response it received to its probing recently and the credible threats of disproportionate retaliation conveyed through various sources to the Pakistani Establishment. The idling LeT cadres have to be gainfully employed. We now know that even the Indian Mujahideen's top brass left ISI/LeT patronage. The IS is already ruling over a large swathe of land in Syria and Iraq. It announced its plans for Khorasan a few months back and also appointed an Emir. The IS is attracting a lot of manpower not only from the West but also from Pakistan. The IS could step into Yemen for two reasons, one, to capture more territory in order to expand the Caliphate and two to kill Shi'a Houthis. As the IS juggernaut comes nearer home, the LeT and the Army need to worry. It seems that for various reasons (fear of internal instability and the pressure from China), Pakistan does not want to get involved in Yemen at this stage. This even led to earning severe displeasure from the Gulf Kingdoms and dire warnings too. At the same time, Pakistan cannot let the IS in to the Yemen vacuum either. So, the best bet for it is to dispatch the trusted (and frustrated) LeT. This might also have the benefit of assuaging the ruffled feelings in the Gulf countries. Simultaneously, the Pakistani Army has been trying to appropriate AQ in Af-Pak to strengthen its leverage in the post-American scenario and also to ward off the IS incursion. Yemen could be a crucible to test this collaboration also.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby pankajs » 14 Apr 2015 12:24

Irfan Nooruddin @irfannooruddin · Mar 24

Register for @abdullah_omar keynote at http://www.guindiadialogue.com Event at 5pm, Tuesday, April 14th @adnanrasool @GtownIndia @USIP

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby arun » 14 Apr 2015 12:27

arun wrote:
arun wrote:UAE press reports about the Islamic Republic of Pakistan not providing the Arab Sunni Mohammadden coalition material support for their action in Yemen.

Khaleej Times:

UAE condemns Pakistan's vote on Yemen : Warns of heavy price for ambiguous stand

Gulf News:

Gargash: Pakistan's vote on Yemen ‘unexpected’

Adapting Simon Cameron thought for the day for the UAE, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan's other Patrons and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan as well :wink: :

An honest brotherly client state is one who, when he is bought, will stay bought


Kuwaiti Press joins in castigating the Islamic Republic of Pakistan :

Kuwait daily launches scathing attack on Pakistan


The duplicitous nature of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is continues the process of dawning on their Patrons in the UAE with one more newspaper chiming in.

Sami Al Reyami, Editor-in-Chief of 'Emarat Al Youm' writing in Emirates 247:

'Pakistan is not the ideal ally' : 'Decisive Storm' a real test for real friendship with Pakistan

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby Shreeman » 14 Apr 2015 13:26

Pakistan:LeT doesnt exist. JuD doesnt exist. Cashmere, cashmere..
Readers here: We dont believe a word you say.

Pakistan: We have nothing to do with Talipan.
Readers here: Hehe. Right, thats strategic depth for you. Bend over.

Pakistan: We are not sending no troops to SA.
Readers here: Wow, bakis are not doing what SA is asking them to do.

Why?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2

Postby shiv » 14 Apr 2015 13:29

Nice analysis Sridharuddin


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