Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 1 Feb 2015

[SSridhar]

Pakistan’s plutonium plant ‘operational’ - Narayan Lakshman, The Hindu

Pakistan may now be on the fast track to weaponising spent nuclear fuel through its plutonium reprocessing plant in Chashma in Punjab, according to recent satellite imagery, which indicates that all the ongoing construction around a tall building, suspected to be the reprocessing facility in question, has been completed.

Increased capability

In its report, the Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS), a think tank here, said that while the operational status of this reprocessing plant was yet to be confirmed, “satellite imagery signatures suggest it may have recently become operational, [a development that] would significantly increase Pakistan’s plutonium separation capability and ability to make nuclear weapons.”

Speaking to The Hindu one of the report’s authors, Serena Vergantini, said that ISIS had determined from open source information that there was a plan to build a reprocessing plant at Chashma several years ago although it was difficult to know which building was the reprocessing facility.

However, in 2007, ISIS located a tall building in a site southwest of the Chashma Nuclear Power Complex, which incidentally hosts Chinese-supplied nuclear power reactors, where “a considerable amount of construction” had taken place between 2002 and 2005, including ponds nearby excavated, roads paved and a potential plutonium management building and waste facility built nearby.

The latest satellite imagery obtained by ISIS through Digital Global indicates that all such construction work appears complete, which makes it most likely that the reprocessing facility is “close to complete,” and “possibly operational,” Ms. Vergantini noted.

Last month, another ISIS report had hinted that Pakistan may have accelerated its covert nuclear weapons development programme and rendered operational a nuclear reactor structure located at its Khushab plant, some 120 km by road from the Chashma site.

However given the plutonium output from the Khushab reactors’, Islamabad, needed to find a way to chemically separate it from the irradiated reactor fuel, a complex process requiring plutonium reprocessing plants. When its contract to receive such a plant from France was cancelled by suppliers in France in the mid-1970s, Pakistan constructed a small indigenous facility near Rawalpindi.

Although it came online to reprocess plutonium after Pakistan brought into operation its first Khushab reactor in 1998, the three additional reactors there were possibly producing more irradiated fuel than the Rawalpindi plant could handle, prompting the “secret” construction of the Chashma plutonium separation plant.

Satellite imagery suggests that construction around Chashma reprocessing plant has been completed

[abhijitm]

pakis having khujli against Roger Federer for tweeting with Indian teams jersey
What to Make of Roger Federer's Weird Controversy with India and Pakistan

Roger Federer probably had no idea that a photograph of him holding India's national cricket team jersey would set off an international incident.

nervous breakdown of pakis == international incident.
I think the author meant cab drivers in some parts of the world are upset. Hence the international incident.

[Peregrine]

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinio ... t-we-hate/

Isn't this sweet, this paki Khaled Ahmed is worried India will turn to another pakistan...and various loser who run "think tanks" in bangalore, kerala that hobnob with pakis like H.Haqqani think Khaled Ahmed speak 100% truth. Brings tears to one's eyes, all this genuine paki concern about India, and "secular liberal" jokers in India who nod sagely when pakis say such things.

Tuvaluan Ji :

Khalid Ahmed has nailed the reason for India's present day problems :

Historian Venkat Dhulipala has a marvellous analysis of what Pakistan was meant to be in his book Creating a New Medina: State Power, Islam, and the Quest for Pakistan in Late Colonial North India. Was there such intent at the birth of India? The book has a chapter on Ambedkar defending the creation of Pakistan in favour of Hindus while Jinnah wanted to create Pakistan in favour of Muslims. Ambedkar, in his treatise Thoughts on Pakistan (1941), held that the Muslims of India were too intensely religious to maintain communal harmony in the new state. His Pakistan was hinged on a peaceful transfer of populations which, alas, didn’t happen.

Cheers

[Tuvaluan]

Ambedkar, in his treatise Thoughts on Pakistan (1941), held that the Muslims of India were too intensely religious to maintain communal harmony in the new state. His Pakistan was hinged on a peaceful transfer of populations which, alas, didn’t happen.

Peregrine ji, Just goes to reveal Jinnah's fancifool state of mind. We have to thank all those who separated pakistan from India -- Ambedkar was clearly right in this view and we can all see why today.

[sadhana]

This is what B R Ambedkar really wrote on the subject of transfer of populations. He did not envision transfer of Muslim populations from provinces of 'Hindustan', nor of any Hindus from provinces of Pakistan, nor any forcible migration. What he wrote about was of purely voluntary migrations.

I will now turn to the problem of the minorities which must remain within Pakistan even after boundaries are redrawn. There are two methods of protecting their interests.

First is to provide safeguards in the constitution for the protection of the political and cultural rights of the minorities. To Indians this is a familiar matter and it is unnecessary to enlarge upon it.

Second is to provide for their transfer from Pakistan to Hindustan. Many people prefer this solution and would be ready and willing to consent to Pakistan if it can be shown that an exchange of population is possible. But they regard this as a staggering and a baffling problem. This no doubt is the sign of a panic-stricken mind. If the matter is considered in a cool and calm temper, it will be found that the problem is neither staggering nor baffling.

To begin with, consider the dimensions of the problem. On what scale is this transfer going to be? In determining the scale one is bound to take into account three considerations. In the first place, if the boundaries of the Punjab and Bengal are redrawn, there will be no question of transfer of population so far as these two Provinces are concerned. In the second place, the Musalmans residing in Hindustan do not propose to migrate to Pakistan, nor does the League want their transfer. In the third place, the Hindus in the North-West Frontier Province, Sind and Baluchistan do not want to migrate. If these assumptions are correct, the problem of transfer of population is far from being a staggering problem. Indeed it is so small that there is no need to regard it as a problem at all.

Read the rest:
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/prit ... n/514.html

[KLNMurthy]

This is what B R Ambedkar really wrote on the subject of transfer of populations. He did not envision transfer of Muslim populations from provinces of 'Hindustan', nor of any Hindus from provinces of Pakistan, nor any forcible migration. What he wrote about was of purely voluntary migrations.

I will now turn to the problem of the minorities which must remain within Pakistan even after boundaries are redrawn. There are two methods of protecting their interests.

First is to provide safeguards in the constitution for the protection of the political and cultural rights of the minorities. To Indians this is a familiar matter and it is unnecessary to enlarge upon it.

Second is to provide for their transfer from Pakistan to Hindustan. Many people prefer this solution and would be ready and willing to consent to Pakistan if it can be shown that an exchange of population is possible. But they regard this as a staggering and a baffling problem. This no doubt is the sign of a panic-stricken mind. If the matter is considered in a cool and calm temper, it will be found that the problem is neither staggering nor baffling.

To begin with, consider the dimensions of the problem. On what scale is this transfer going to be? In determining the scale one is bound to take into account three considerations. In the first place, if the boundaries of the Punjab and Bengal are redrawn, there will be no question of transfer of population so far as these two Provinces are concerned. In the second place, the Musalmans residing in Hindustan do not propose to migrate to Pakistan, nor does the League want their transfer. In the third place, the Hindus in the North-West Frontier Province, Sind and Baluchistan do not want to migrate. If these assumptions are correct, the problem of transfer of population is far from being a staggering problem. Indeed it is so small that there is no need to regard it as a problem at all.

Read the rest:
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/prit ... n/514.html

And Ambedkar proved horribly wrong in his analysis and rosy prediction. I wonder if he ever acknowledged or explained what went wrong with his analysis. Wrong assumptions, perhaps?

[Peregrine]

Ambedkar, in his treatise Thoughts on Pakistan (1941), held that the Muslims of India were too intensely religious to maintain communal harmony in the new state. His Pakistan was hinged on a peaceful transfer of populations which, alas, didn’t happen.

Peregrine ji, Just goes to reveal Jinnah's fancifool state of mind. We have to thank all those who separated pakistan from India -- Ambedkar was clearly right in this view and we can all see why today.

Tuvaluan Ji :
Re : Jinnah’s 11-08-1947 Speech :-

I refer you to the Article “Ideology in Changing Times” by Dr. Tahir Kamran, at one time the Chairperson of Government College University, Lahore :

Dr. Tahir states : However, a disinterested glance at the other speeches and statements of Jinnah confirms the above quoted lines to be an aberration rather than norm as it has been projected. A passing reference has been made by Chaudhry Khaleeq-uz-Zaman in 'Pathway to Pakistan' stating that the statement was issued to appease Indian rulers so that the safety and well being of those Muslims could be ensured who, due to various reasons, preferred to stay back in India. Shahid Javid Burki, too, unleashes trenchant criticism on the inanity of that statement in his ' Pakistan : A Nation in the Making'. His contention holds water particularly when he questions the legitimacy of Jinnah's articulation emphasising a single nationhood immediately after massacres and pogroms killing at least hundreds of thousands if not millions.

One tends to concur more with Mubarak Ali who disregards the speech in question as totally out of tune with the rationale of Pakistan movement. He rightly contends that one can find out all sorts of statements and speeches. If Presidential address to the Constituent Assembly resonates a secular vision for the state, many other speeches stressed religious ideology as the cornerstone for future planning and policy formulations. Jinnah's address at the annual meeting of the Muslim League in March 1940 can be quoted as an example;

"The problem in India is not one of an inter-communal character but manifestly of an international one, and it must be treated as such.... They (Islam and Hinduism) are not religions in the strict sense of the word, but are, in fact different and distinct social orders, and it is a dream that Hindus and Muslims can ever evolve a common nationality... The Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs, literature. They neither inter- marry nor interdine together, and, indeed civilizations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions."

The above article is not accessible by its URL. I can E-Mail the full Article to you.

I deeply regret that we have Battalions of Indian Opinion Makers lauding Jinnah’s Constitutional. Democratic and Secular Status - Believe me far be it from Jinnah any such intention!

Cheers

[sadhana]

And Ambedkar proved horribly wrong in his analysis and rosy prediction. I wonder if he ever acknowledged or explained what went wrong with his analysis. Wrong assumptions, perhaps?

He assumed Jinnah and Muslim League wanted a peaceful settlement too. Instead they attempted a land grab via violence of the whole of Punjab and whole of Bengal and Assam and as many princely states as they could persuade to remain out of the Indian Union.

In any case, the Indian right wing needs to stop misquoting B.R. Ambedkar on 'transfer of populations' and stop implying incorrectly that he meant by it what they want it to mean.

[Shreeman]

Ambedkars contributions are "a bit" ovestated. It is as if the constitutional assembly did not exist.

Every Indian and Pakistani leader (including Ambedkar) knew what riots were, that they would occur, saw them, and issued the usual statement of contrition.

To the dynasty and to djinnah being a king was far more important. Neither would have given up on it, nor permitted to do so by those that decided these folks be the leaders of the new countries. Consider the likelihood of a Patel being in charge instead of the two glorious leaders.

Hypothetical statements do not, a theory make. If the transfers were assumed to be a small and minor issue, you would not put in place, the indefinite custodial arrangement of transferee property etc that have yet to be resolved after nearly 70 years.

In the final years, and the five after 47, everyone (who remained alive) was looking out for their own personal safety and material interests. Look at the positions prior to that if you want to find even a hint of ideology. Politicians havent become forked tongued just in this generation.

[Peregrine]

‘India’s obsession with Pakistan ended long ago’

She said each country defined itself by portraying the other as the enemy. She said there had been moments when it seemed that the two countries would achieve long-lasting peace but the moment was fleeting. She said Pakistan’s government had made considerable progress when it granted India the MFN status but overall the constituency for peace had not been built in both states. Liar, Liar. Pants on Fire!

Najam Sethi, news analyst, agreed with Khar, saying that Pakistan’s obsession with India was woven into the country’s narrative.

Shekhar Gupta, vice chairman of the India Today group, disagreed. He said India and Pakistan’s obsession with each other was no longer as it had been earlier. He said this was a recent phenomenon for Pakistan but India had not been obsessed with Pakistan for a long time.

He said Modi did not want to waste his five years fighting Pakistan and was engaging the rest of the world. He said during Obama’s visit, there was no mention of Pakistan. The Dog Turd did not refute the Lady with Pants on Fire that she was lying about Cwapistan having granted India MFN Status

He said Modi wanted peace with Pakistan but would come to that in his own time.

He – KMK - said Pakistan Army did not oppose peace with India, saying that the three years they spent on reaching the framework of the deal could not have happened without their support.
However, he said Pakistan Army would never settle for a secondary position in any negotiations. Time will tell!

Cheers

[sanjaykumar]

She said each country defined itself by portraying the other as the enemy.

So this madam thinks India is like Pakistan in this respect. She only reinforces the dim view of Hindus of Pakistani Muslims'intellect. I hope The Pakistan army can find more insightful puppets amongst the 200 million, even allowing for their madrasseh education. A dizzy foreign minister may be great for whatever soft image the khakis were trying to project, but competence does have a value when dealing with India.


If India disappeared from the Earth so would Pakistan, if Pakistan disappeared India would continue as eternal.

[Agnimitra]

And Ambedkar proved horribly wrong in his analysis and rosy prediction. I wonder if he ever acknowledged or explained what went wrong with his analysis. Wrong assumptions, perhaps?

This was his envisaged proposal, not a "prediction". In this limited quote, he is not factoring in the political will of the state machinery - under the Brits at the time - to enforce this peaceful and safe passage of voluntary migrants, and to safeguard the rights of minorities who wanted to stay back in their respective new countries.

I don't know how Shreeman jumped from here to the declaration that "Ambedkar's contributions are overrated".

Ambedkar's proposal should be made current in present time also. The process of split should be a continuous process. Those minorities whose religious-political aspirations do not harmonize with the idea of India and its Dharmic culture (as clearly and explicitly outlined by Ambedkar, apart from several Hindutva figures), should be encouraged to migrate to their El Dorado. Safe passage should be provided to them, so that they may better realize their religious, social and political aspirations in the country their ideology carved out. At the same time, if its not already too late, India should take a very active role in speaking out for the persecution of minorities in Pakistan or Bangladesh face at the hands of their cruel Islamofascist rulers or the numerous "Sufi" tanzeems that kidnap their women.

[sadhana]

Those minorities whose religious-political aspirations do not harmonize with the idea of India and its Dharmic culture (as clearly and explicitly outlined by Ambedkar, apart from several Hindutva figures), should be encouraged to migrate to their El Dorado. Safe passage should be provided to them, so that they may better realize their religious, social and political aspirations in the country their ideology carved out. At the same time, if its not already too late, India should take a very active role in speaking out for the persecution of minorities in Pakistan or Bangladesh face at the hands of their cruel Islamofascist rulers or the numerous "Sufi" tanzeems that kidnap their women.

I will be happy to 'migrate' to hell from this website if I have to accept the overlordship of 'senior Hindutva figures' as a condition of my participation. Just give the word, moderators and I will be gone.

[ArmenT]

I will be happy to 'migrate' to hell from this website if I have to accept the overlordship of 'senior Hindutva figures' as a condition of my participation. Just give the word, moderators and I will be gone.

+1

[Gagan]

Just FYI
CHASNUPP 1:PWR, 300MW, Supplied by: Shanghai Nuclear Engineering Research and Design Institute(SNERDI), China National Nuclear Corporation(CNNC) East China Electric Power Design Institute(ECEPDI)
CHASNUPP 2: Same as above
CHASNUPP 3: Under construction. New illegal deal between China-Pakistan
CHASNUPP 4: Under construction. New illegal deal between China-Pakistan

[Shreeman]

^^^^ The jump comes from "But Ambedkar said so....", --- what makes the inference carry weight (regardless of it being right/wrong) is its attribution. You may choose to disagree with the attribution, its context, or the inferences but they would not carry the same weight if attributed to an ordinary abdul.
Or even that shreeman.

Next is the opinion this shreeman chose to express. It is but an opinion. Unlike Ambedkars stature, it carries no weight, doesnt it? May be he/she is not into hero worship. Perhaps 70 foot mayawati statues are not good, just the same as more patel statues, or even large hanuman statues in IGIA flight path.

You could continue to hold forth that Ambedkar played a role far greater than he did. Just like the others of the time -- Krishna Menon and Morarji desai were written about today, werent they? But perhaps we can name a few other constitution framers first, who are promoted as much as Ambedkar?

Thus, the shreeman questions, gandhi, nehru, morarji desai, krishna menon, and yes, ambedkar too. They chose to put themselves in a position where any abdul is required to question their decisions and arguments.

Obscurity, victor's histories, and believing in facts by choice lead not to civil societies, but religious cults. Pakistan is a shining example of it.

Now on the merit of the argument,

No, Ambedkar's proposal was wrong then. And it is worse today. The world does not need new refugee camps. It needs its conflicts and atprguments settled in place, aithout weapons, and by the inhabitants. Not regional or world power orders.

This "India" that you speak of, hasnt managed to provide the very basic access to landmass to those trapped along the bangladesh border in nearly 70 years. Yet, you look for more "bais", "bhaiyyas" and slaves? How about you deal with the basic problems of those that are already Indians?

India does not have the might to solve anybody elses problems. It also does not have the culture to do anything but create new refugee camps -- tibetans, bangladeshis, kashmiri pandits, tamils from sri lanka, palestinians, afghans.

Doing half hearted, half assed "help" or "role" creates bigger problems than it solves. Europe hasnt been able to integrate anybody. Indian structure is certainly not capable of doing it. There is no merit to "lets take in more". No, dont make haiti and mexicos around you.

You can ONLY lead by example, and that example is development of India. If you have resources, spend on local development whatever you are choosing not to embezzle. No amount of "active role" is going to make the world any fairer for those you are seeking to protect, the way you are proposing to protect them.

The problems of foreign lands serve only to distract minds from local problems. There are others who will jump at those chances.

[Tuvaluan]

I deeply regret that we have Battalions of Indian Opinion Makers lauding Jinnah’s Constitutional. Democratic and Secular Status - Believe me far be it from Jinnah any such intention!

Peregrine ji, Jinnah was hateful pr*ck who was just as bigoted as those fundamentalist muslims and the zamindars that pushed for the formation of pakistan...a more nasty version of Nehru, who, unlike Nehru, did not have a bunch of pushovers he could screw over to become king of the county. There is this guy in Pak Tea House - a hateful little swine YLHamdani who is also a "jinnah"ist who is making up fanciful tales of how Jinnah's pakistan would have been paradise and the present pakistan is because no one heeded jinnah -- this is downhill skiing of the best sort, the kind pakijabis are famous for. Jinnah and Nehru were moulded by the brits as marionettes, and they mostly succeeded -- the British left India and Pak without taking the "Raj" with them, as we all realize now. So I agree with your view of Jinnah -- was always puzzled that the likes of Advani spouted all that flowery cr@p about jinnah and his "vision", no doubt aided and abetted by the marxist slimeball sudheendra kulkarni. Good riddance to both of them.

Today's pakistan is exactly headed towards "Jinnah's pakistan" -- there was no chance in hell pakistan was going to be an islamic state *and* tolerant of minorities. People like Zia just accelerated the process, and we are all thankful for it.

[Agnimitra]

The world does not need new refugee camps. It needs its conflicts and atprguments settled in place, aithout weapons, and by the inhabitants. Not regional or world power orders.

This is the only part of your long-winded rant that I can wholeheartedly agree with. Unfortunately, what is rising on the political horizon is a Caliphate that is worse than what happened during the gory partition episode. It will send India scrambling, or at least looking for ways to build a bulwark against this fascism, of which Pakistan is only an outcrop. In that sense, to dissolve its levers within, India will have to consider the option of facilitated migration. Instead, the reverse is happening in the near neighborhood - over a lakh ideologically indoctrinated Pakistanis have made Nepal home. You can't have more radicalized Rohingyas make colonies in India, nor MIM-dominated urban zones spring up. It is a hard and very uncomfortable truth to deal with, but the response to fascism has to be a combination of de-radicalization as well as gentle pressure.

BTW, I mentioned you because of your dig at Ambedkar that was completely non sequitur.

This "India" that you speak of, hasnt managed to provide the very basic access to landmass to those trapped along the bangladesh border in nearly 70 years. Yet, you look for more "bais", "bhaiyyas" and slaves?

Have you completely lost it, man?

sadhana and ArmenT ji, is something on your mind? Chill out.

[Shreeman]

^^^ I am no fan of RT, but this is what guggal chacha brought up first: http://rt.com/op-edge/161056-bangladesh ... ens-india/

and that gloriously incorrect source of information Wikipedia says this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladeshis_in_India

Where is the motivation for ANY immigration? I will leave it to the Bangladesh experts to comment on the matter if needed, I am not one. I just know that inside or outside, there are no real rights afforded to these "refugees". And in this particular case, their impact on the already distorted political process is clear.

As to having lost it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Bangladesh_enclaves

~100,000 is not a small number of people. Who is shouting for them?

Even the sense of "russians will accept you" has sent generational russian speaking people in ukraine to railway stations, with notice boards full of tour operators to rostov and moscow. You create an opportunity, the "tour operators" will exploit it.

No, *FORCED* immigration is NOT the answer. And if that is losing it, then I have never had it, let alone lose it. You prepare for hosting these populations as internally displaced, not as refugees or immigrants.

[Agnimitra]

^^ Let's try putting things into perspective instead of jumping around from "forced immigration" to "slaves" to "Ambedkar was overrated". One can also bring in horrific abuses and the agenda of subversives within. That does nothing for sane discussion about the safest options forward.

The overarching policy should be towards de-radicalization, consolidating well-adjusted minorities to be held up as models versus the radical mullas, promoting harmony and integration. However, in spite of all this there is guaranteed to be a significant section of ideologically-driven active sections of society that act as hostile agents. They must be carefully and non-violently persuaded to leave. That means that rights and privileges as a citizen in India should be based on allegiance to the constitution. Most other countries will deport you or arrest you if those basic conditions are not met. That constitutional commitment is all that Ambedkar and several of his contemporaries were talking about.

[Shreeman]

^^ Let's try putting things into perspective instead of jumping around from "forced immigration" to "slaves" to "Ambedkar was overrated". One can also bring in horrific abuses and the agenda of subversives within. That does nothing for sane discussion about the safest options forward.

The overarching policy should be towards de-radicalization, consolidating well-adjusted minorities to be held up as models versus the radical mullas, promoting harmony and integration. However, in spite of all this there is guaranteed to be a significant section of ideologically-driven active sections of society that act as hostile agents. They must be carefully and non-violently persuaded to leave. That means that rights and privileges as a citizen in India should be based on allegiance to the constitution. Most other countries will deport you or arrest you if those basic conditions are not met. That constitutional commitment is all that Ambedkar and several of his contemporaries were talking about.

Look, as far as Ambedkar goes his place in my argument is incidental. I would argue against any other single framer of a constitution the same way. I am not a fan.

The other argument overstates the internal condition of India and its citizens. The foreign policy right now needs to be focused on development. Especially manufacturing. There is no expertise in emergency management, foreign policy, or large scale population management that you are asking for. It does not appear overnight. Have you tried looking at what the MEA babus are experts in? And if that's the cream, the state of the rest of the aid, de-redicalization, re-education, "persuation" mechanism is not going to be any better. And the state is the same in the Home ministry. So why the wishful thinking?

The world is in the worst shape in my lifetime as far as individual rights are concerned. It will get a lot worse, before it changes, if it ever changes. You can change things at home. Not abroad.

Pakistan is NOT exploding. If that is the fear driving these thoughts you can rest assured there is no khalifa coming to pakistan that is not there today.

[Agnimitra]

Shreeman ji, "development" cannot be divorced from other aspects of public policy - that is as basic as the theory can get. This "development" mantra before and separate from all else is a complete delusion. Often, economic developmental spinoffs will feed the weeds in society at the cost of less aggressive and benign elements.

Do you seriously believe that in a clear arc from Malaysia to Morocco, Islamofascism is not expanding?

[ArmenT]

Not directly related to Pakistan, but x-posting here as it may be relevant:

Ozzies taking action against terrorism:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-31579804

Australia will toughen its citizenship laws as part of a new anti-terrorism strategy to combat rising threats, PM Tony Abbott has announced.

He said citizenship for dual nationals involved in terrorism could be suspended or even revoked.

People born in Australia could also lose some privileges if they broke anti-terror laws, he added.

Officials have long warned that the country faces growing security threats, especially from radical Islamists.

They point out that dozens of Australian nationals are fighting for Islamic State (IS) militants in Iraq and Syria, and a number of them are believed to have returned to Australia.
...
...
"It has long been the case that people who fight against Australia forfeit their citizenship," Mr Abbott said in a speech at the federal police headquarters in the capital, Canberra.

"So Australians who take up arms with terrorist groups, especially while Australian military personnel are engaged in Afghanistan and Iraq, have sided against our country. And should be treated accordingly," he said.

"We are examining suspending some of the privileges of citizenship for individuals involved in terrorism. These could include restricting the ability to leave or return to Australia, and access to consular services overseas, as well as access to welfare payments."

[Shreeman]

Shreeman ji, "development" cannot be divorced from other aspects of public policy - that is as basic as the theory can get. This "development" mantra before and separate from all else is a complete delusion. Often, economic developmental spinoffs will feed the weeds in society at the cost of less aggressive and benign elements.

Do you seriously believe that in a clear arc from Malaysia to Morocco, Islamofascism is not expanding?

What you STILL need is roads/water/electricity. This is NOT foreign policy based development. Yes, it can be divorced from treatment of pakistanis.

If this is such a delusion, then you can not have a south korea, you can't have anything positive in china, and japan shouldn't even exist. Not to mention any of the small european nations (not the eastern most europe, but the croats and the czechs and such who are recent upstarts).

ps - I am back to scheduled pakistani bashing. Poor form for me to react to the matter in the first place.

[Agnimitra]

ArmenT - very apropos, thanks. Shreeman ji, please see the report ArmenT just posted.

[symontk]

I will be happy to 'migrate' to hell from this website if I have to accept the overlordship of 'senior Hindutva figures' as a condition of my participation. Just give the word, moderators and I will be gone.

There are rights & obligations and dont fritter it away for less, anyway OT for this thread

[Shreeman]

ArmenT - very apropos, thanks. Shreeman ji, please see the report ArmenT just posted.

I know a thing or two about Australia, but am also not smart enough to see what you are pointing to. This is not the place, and there is no place for me to delve into australia. Paki thread, I talk bakistani onlee. Discipreene from me prease, and perhaps a hint to you as well.

[Prem]

http://www.dawn.com/news/1165390/justic ... in-karachi
Justice (r) Rana Bhagwandas passes away in Karachi

KARACHI: Former acting chief justice Rana Bhagwandas passed away in Karachi on Monday, DawnNews reported.The 72-year-old former judge was under treatment for a heart ailment at a private hospital at the time of his passing.He was the first Hindu and the second non-Muslim head of Pakistan’s judiciary and had been a Supreme Court judge since Feb 2000.Born in Naseerabad, Larkana District (now Qamber Shahdadkot District) in Sindh in Dec 1942, Justice (retd) Bhagwandas had a postgraduate degree in Islamic Studies and was considered an expert on constitutional law.He was a practising advocate for about two years before being appointed as a judge in July 1967. He was made a judge of the Sindh High Court in June 1994.In 2002, the Sindh High Court had dismissed a challenge to his appointment to the higher judiciary on the grounds that he was a non-Muslim.He was appointed acting Chief Justice for a few days in 2005 and 2006, during the absence of then Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry from the country.He was again appointed as acting chief justice of Pakistan during the judicial crisis in 2007..

[JE Menon]

>>I will be happy to 'migrate' to hell from this website if I have to accept the overlordship of 'senior Hindutva figures' as a condition of my participation. Just give the word, moderators and I will be gone.

1. Who said anything about this website in regard to this matter? From what I can see of Agnimitra's post, it was his own opinion about people who adhere to the idea of India.

2. Who mentioned "overlordship" of 'senior Hindutva figures'? That was your word, and in relation to a post which referred in the context to both Ambedkar and senior Hindutva figures. One can take it from your response that you have no problem with "overlordship" by Ambedkar. The truly self-righteous posture would have been to reject overlordship by anyone.

3. Why drag the admins in to this? We have enough work as it is (real life food-on-table stuff), to combine with moderation activity. Not complaining, just pointing out that we could do without such sly online fedayeen activity.

On the other hand, if you feel this site does not fit your particular political sensibility, the only thing keeping you here is probably your click-finger. Admins really don't mind, one way or another.

Having said that, your post is definitely the first nominee for I've seen for the 2015 Moeffler-Inhaller Award given by the Biglund-Smalgand Foundation in Scandinavia.

And stick to thread topic folks...

[Agnimitra]

^^^ BTW I said nothing about "senior Hindutva figures". I said "Ambedkar, apart from *several* Hindutva figures". My intent was to show that such thoughts were from people like Ambedkar as well - and not just the typical "Hindutva bogeymen" that popular discourse points to. sadhana turned it upside down.

[SSridhar]

Pakistan-Saudi ties - Edit, DT

Nowhere is the Pakistani resolve to beat terrorism more apparent than in its changing relationship with Saudi Arabia. Its long-standing ally and ‘friend’ seems to now be on the other end of scrutiny by its Pakistani counterpart, a country that is being hit every which way by the terror threat. With the announcement of a National Action Plan (NAP) and the decision by both military and civilian leaderships to eradicate the terrorist networks spread out all over the country, we are reassessing our relationship with the Kingdom. This is because Saudi petro-dollars have been behind most of the jihadi infrastructure in this country. First they were funnelled into establishing the mujahideen who were trained and churned out to defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan and then it kept coming to keep the jihadi/proxy network alive, an entire army of religious warriors to do the bidding of the Kingdom by spreading its Wahhabi ideology all over the country. This has translated into a great number of madrassas (seminaries) indoctrinating the jihadist mindset into the impressionable youth. And the funding for these seminaries has long been suspected — and proved on many an occasion — of coming from Saudi sources.

After the Peshawar incident in which the country saw scores of its own children mowed down by militants while in school, we have turned a new chapter in countering the terror threat, something we have not done despite the deaths of more than 50,000 citizens in terror attacks. The Pakistani state is hurting now. And in this period of hurt it will look again at its relationship with the father state of Wahhabi/jihadist ideology.

NAP promises to bring seminaries under control, it promises reform and putting these seminaries under the microscope. Much finger-pointing has been done by the Pakistani government at the Saudi higher ups, but allegations of funding terror seminaries has been rebuffed by the monarchy. While that may be true, we cannot deflect suspicion away from private individuals who may be sending money to Pakistan and to the madrassas for motives other than charity. It is time toxic practices be stopped completely, at least where disseminating fundamentalist ideology is concerned. Pakistan has never been this hard up, this challenged by terrorism. NAP is our onlt way forward but for its true implementation, all causes of extremism must be nipped. This will begin with mending the Saudi equation. *

Pakistan is far too down the road into wahhabi terrorism for it to change. This is a fleeting moment of aggression from the Army because children & wives of army officers were put to gruesome death and maiming. This facade of determination to fight terrorism too shall pass and Pakistan will descend even more deeply into the sewage-filled bottomless sinkhole that it set up for itself when it demanded and got an Islam-based identity.

[habal]

mungeri lal ke haseen sapne
hamid gul busy wanking out his favorite fantasies.
speaking of fantasies also makes a reference on Rajnikanth and how he is now old but still favorite south of vindhyachal.

aaj bhi eis bande mein paanch paise ki randi chupi hui hain. Wants to sale pakeezah to USA

[gandharva]

[JE Menon]

^^whoa, that's nasty... It's either a sexual thingie viz jealous paramour, or ISI or both.

[SSridhar]

UK's Baroness Warsi accused of doling out posts to radicals - DAWN

Britain's first female Muslim Cabinet minister Baroness Sayeeda Warsi has been accused by a Muslim leader of handing out official posts to people linked to Islamist groups enabling the entry of radicals into the political system, according to a report published on the website of The Telegraph.

Until recently, Fiyaz Mughal was a former member of a “cross-Government working group on anti-Muslim hatred” set up in 2012 by Lady Warsi and Nick Clegg, the Deputy Prime Minister.

He claims the 'radicals or former radicals and their allies' who were given the official posts included a man involved in an “unpleasant and bullying” campaign to win planning permission for the controversial London “megamosque” proposed by a fundamentalist Islamic sect.

Some members of the group are also accused of using their seats at the table to urge that Whitehall work with Islamist and extremist-linked bodies, including one described by the Prime Minister as a “political front for the Muslim Brotherhood”.

Others are said to have demanded the lifting of bans on preachers from entering Britain, including controversial televangelist Zakir Naik.

He claims the 'radicals or former radicals and their allies' who were given the official posts included a man involved in an “unpleasant and bullying” campaign to win planning permission for the controversial London “megamosque” proposed by a fundamentalist Islamic sect.

Some members of the group are also accused of using their seats at the table to urge that Whitehall work with Islamist and extremist-linked bodies, including one described by the Prime Minister as a “political front for the Muslim Brotherhood”.

Others are said to have demanded the lifting of bans on preachers from entering Britain, including controversial televangelist Zakir Naik.

Mughal who is the head of Tell Mama, a British organisation for monitoring anti-Muslim attacks, claims he resigned from the working group in protest of its activities.

The members of the working group whose inclusion had raised concerns include Mudassir Ahmed a former senior activist in the Muslim Public Affairs Committee (MPAC), which is said to be an extremist and anti-Semitic militant body.

Ahmed and his PR company, Unitas Communications, have recently been affiliated with a body called the Newham People’s Alliance (NPA), which has campaigned for and plans to create Britain’s biggest mosque near the Olympic Park in the east London borough of Newham.

Another member of the group, Iqbal Bhana, is said to have repeatedly praised the work of a body called the Islamic Human Rights Commission (IHRC).

IHRC has defended Abu Hamza, saying he has been “demonised”. It claimed that Hamza's recent conviction in the United States was an example of the “double standards of the British justice system in relation to Muslims”.

Other members allowed in the working group by Warsi include Iftikhar Awan, a former trustee of Islamic Relief, which is an Muslim Brotherhood linked-charity.

Sarah Joseph, a former spokesman for the Islamism-linked Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) with which the incumbent and former governments have severed ties, was also included as a member of the working group.

The Telegraph report added that all members of the working group are not Islamist or radical sympathisers. There is no suggestion that any member is a supporter of violent extremism.{What is the difference in Islam between 'radical sympathisers' and 'supporters of violent extremism'?}

The group, which directly reports to the prime minister, includes officials from the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG), the Ministry of Justice, the Home Office, the Department for Education, the Foreign Office and the Crown Prosecution Service.

It has continued to operate even after Warsi's August 2014 resignation from the government over Britain's policy on Gaza.

[habal]

mungeri lal ke haseen sapne
hamid gul busy wanking out his favorite fantasies.
speaking of fantasies also makes a reference on Rajnikanth and how he is now old but still favorite south of vindhyachal.

aaj bhi eis bande mein paanch paise ki randi chupi hui hain. Wants to sale pakeezah to USA

he makes an important point about Camp David though.

he says Camp David is the place for a get together before any genocidal wars are launched. So whenver there is something going on Camp David, then a war or destruction of random society is evident.

[SSridhar]

Taking her body to PIMS for postmortem is like hosing down the scene of crime.

[Cosmo_R]

@JEM: ^^^ "2015 Moeffler-Inhaller Award given by the Biglund-Smalgand Foundation in Scandinavia." Great knife-work.

[JE Menon]

^^Was a moment of weakness Cosmo... Just got tired of people whining on instead of making a rational case for whatever their position is ... "happy to migrate to hell from this website" no less. I hate being harsh with people, but come the fu(k on...

There seems to be a bunch of self-appointed moral apostles wandering about spreading their sense of pain and freely dispensing sanctimony at the dreadful things they see in others - not least these lost souls' readiness to submit to fascism in the form of "Hindutva" - without perhaps pausing much to inquire as to when the hell that has actually happened in the past in India, and whether it has been "Hindutva" that has been responsible

[shiv]

Pakistan is far too down the road into wahhabi terrorism for it to change. This is a fleeting moment of aggression from the Army because children & wives of army officers were put to gruesome death and maiming. This facade of determination to fight terrorism too shall pass and Pakistan will descend even more deeply into the sewage-filled bottomless sinkhole that it set up for itself when it demanded and got an Islam-based identity.

Absolutement - as they would say in France if they knew how to speak French.

All "information" that comes out of Pakistan is controlled by the RAPE class and that is something that people forget easily. It is because the RAPE class has their balls singed in the Army school of Peshawar that they are now throwing out a load of propagandu that they are actually going to fight extremism by various steps including "arming" the population - an idea that is accompanied by veiled women being shown how to handle firearms. What we tend to ignore is that "Pakistan" is also Baluchistan and NWFP where hundreds of children have been killed by the Shitistan army and children over theer are getting firearms training and being made soosai bombers to fight the Paki army. Pakistan releases news that is swallowed whole by the English speaking world - and us, secondarily.

The only response Pakis can have is to try and get back to the good old days and say "India is the kafir that needs culling". The only well known person (assuming BRF is not well known) saying this repeatedly, loud and clear in the world is Christine Fair.