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India - South & North Korea Thread

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UlanBatori
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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Dec 2017 06:24

Western media diaper-shivering again
As the US and South Korean militaries worked together on the largest-ever version of their annual air-power exercise on the Korean Peninsula, {Our Owners} China did something that suggests it would consider backing up North Korea in the event of war.
On Monday, the same day the exercise started, a spokesman for {Our Owners} China's air force said it had staged exercises along "routes and areas it has never flown before" with surveillance aircraft over the Yellow and East seas near the Korean Peninsula, according to the South China Morning Post.
While China needs to exercise its constantly expanding and modernizing military, this exercise most likely had another purpose. "The timing of this high-profile announcement by the PLA is also a warning to Washington and Seoul not to provoke Pyongyang any further," Li Jie, a military expert based in Beijing, told the Post, using the abbreviation for the Chinese People's Liberation Army. With a record 24 US stealth aircraft in South Korea for the Vigilant Ace exercises, China's move sends a clear message.


BS as usual. They are flying to see NoKo refugees floating towards cheen.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Prem » 06 Dec 2017 07:17

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-no ... us-2017-12
China did something it's never done before to warn the US about fighting North Korea

As the US and South Korean militaries worked together on the largest-ever version of their annual air-power exercise on the Korean Peninsula, China did something that suggests it would consider backing up North Korea in the event of war.On Monday, the same day the exercise started, a spokesman for China's air force said it had staged exercises along "routes and areas it has never flown before" with surveillance aircraft over the Yellow and East seas near the Korean Peninsula, according to the South China Morning Post.While China needs to exercise its constantly expanding and modernizing military, this exercise most likely had another purpose."The timing of this high-profile announcement by the PLA is also a warning to Washington and Seoul not to provoke Pyongyang any further," Li Jie, a military expert based in Beijing, told the Post, using the abbreviation for the Chinese People's Liberation Army.With a record 24 US stealth aircraft in South Korea for the Vigilant Ace exercises, China's move sends a clear message.The US and South Korea have up to 260 aircraft training to take out important North Korean targets in a realistic simulation of an air war.
While China agrees with the US that Pyongyang's nuclear-weapons progress is dangerous, it fundamentally disagrees on the preservation of the North Korean state.China, North Korea's main trading partner, could effectively defund Pyongyang and bring about the collapse of the government, as the US has encouraged. But China's national interest lies in keeping North Korea as a buffer state to prevent the US from staging troops on its borders.
In the Korean War of the 1950s, North Koreans backed by China fought US-backed South Koreans in a brutal war that is technically ongoing because it ended in a cease-fire rather than a peace treaty.China's latest military exercise may serve as a reminder to the US that the two military powers could find themselves on opposite ends once again should conflict break out with North Korea.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Gagan » 06 Dec 2017 10:48

Every analyst is wondering where the NoKos got the liquid fueled engines for their ICBMs.
The 3 letter news agencies quote "Intel sources" say there are 2 possible sources: Ukraine and Roos. (They completely discount Cheen)
They say, Ukraine can't have given the engines to them, it has to be someone else...

Well if the someone else gave them UDMH engines, they can give them a heat shield also na? All this alleged problem of NoKo missiles breaking up/burning up, on re-entry will be solved.

NoKo, as China's munna and cat's paw is militarily close to untouchable. That opens the doors to palace intrigue and inner machinations by all concerned neighbours.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby periaswamy » 06 Dec 2017 18:52

(They completely discount Cheen)


Once again proving that the entire lot of arms control losers are on Chinese payroll and have an agenda to distract the very blatant China-NoKo connection -- Russia has no leverage over NoKo compared to china. Putin inserting himself into the NoKo equation has allowed these lying "arms control wonks" to create a new set of lies that tie into their anti-russian dance. All this when China is openly backing NoKo and warning the USA - not even bothering to pretend anymore about their NoKo connection.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ramana » 07 Dec 2017 01:36

Gagan wrote:Every analyst is wondering where the NoKos got the liquid fueled engines for their ICBMs.
The 3 letter news agencies quote "Intel sources" say there are 2 possible sources: Ukraine and Roos. (They completely discount Cheen)
They say, Ukraine can't have given the engines to them, it has to be someone else...

Well if the someone else gave them UDMH engines, they can give them a heat shield also na? All this alleged problem of NoKo missiles breaking up/burning up, on re-entry will be solved.

NoKo, as China's munna and cat's paw is militarily close to untouchable. That opens the doors to palace intrigue and inner machinations by all concerned neighbours.



very well analyzed.

Cheen gave the engines and the rockets but weak re-entry heat shield to ensure NoKo is not a full threat but good enough to scare the US.


This is a very old tactic.

Portuguese in Goa used to give weak gunpowder to the Indian rulers in the early centuries to ensure they don't become a real threat.

on paper they gave gunpowder etc.
The Indian rulers found out only in war by then they lost it!!!

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Kashi » 07 Dec 2017 05:32

If NoKo missiles have a weak re-entry heat shield , then what does it make of Paki missiles which are nothing but NoKo clones, they must have equally weak or even weaker re-entry heat shields no?

If Chinese were cautious and frugal in sharing heat shield tech with NoKo, wouldn't they be equally if not more cautious with Pakis.

So can we assume that Pakis in addition to being nuke nude are also ballistic missile nude?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Gagan » 07 Dec 2017 05:46

The re-entry velocities for an ICBM class missile are much higher than the SRBM/MRBMs that Pakistan has.
Likely specialized materials and coatings are needed for these heat sheilds, which the Chinese don't share.

Which also means, that the Chinese FULLY control the N weapons of Pakistan and North Korea, via critical material supply etc. The chinese hold the strings that make these two regimes dance

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Dec 2017 07:49

Isn't it possible that the breakup was intentional? It fell into the Japan Ocean, which is infested with Japanese and US ships and subs to go pick up what falls in. The heat shield does not really have to be demonstrated, because what comes down will be quite different with an actual bum.
If the gaijin fished the thing out of the water, they could read the small print that said "Made in Hangzhou".
Besides, the trouble with bissing upwards with mijjiles is that they may come back and fall on ur own head.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby abhik » 07 Dec 2017 14:30

Do we know the it was the warhead that broke up and not the 1st/2nd stage?

UlanBatori
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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Dec 2017 16:51

^^ US "sources" claimed so. Therefore it must be so. :)
BRARJI!!! FOXNews says F-35 To Save The World From North Korean Missiles

When any North Korean missiles are sighted, the F-35 will automatically call simultaneously on 250 cellphones and convey the advice:

Attention! Put ur head between ur legs and kiss ur musharraf goodbye!

UlanBatori
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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Dec 2017 17:00

And here comes the REAL threat: US threatens to withdraw from SoKo Winter Olympics

Russia is banned, North Korea presumably may not compete and US threatens to boycott. They might as well put all the medals in a box and ship it to Beijing now. Minus the Bobsled medal to Jamaica.

Then again, a lot of heavyweight Bollywood actresses may win medals. They seem great at skiing in the movies?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Philip » 08 Dec 2017 12:36

Light at the end of the tunnel? Or is it an incoming NoKo "Ding Dong"! :rotfl:

The latest round of diplomacy brings to mind another great N-crisis,the "Cuban Missile Crisis" and how the world was on the brink of nuclear war and how it was defused. In the final agreement,the US gave a guarantee that it would not invade Cuba and in exchange for the Russians pulling out their missiles form the island,the US would pull out its BMs based in Turkey.That was kept secret at the time,missiles quietly removed later. Though Nikita Kruschev was blamed back home for being a"loser" in the deal,in actual fact he was a winner. The missile threat on his border was removed and Cuban security and independence was guaranteed,even though the CIA tried hundreds of assassination attempts against Castro later on,which all failed. The mob lost its assets in Havana and the CIA was blamed for the Bay of PIgs disaster,leading to JFK sacking the them CIA chief Dulles. The mob and CIA hit back along with other southern gentry,and JFK was wasted at Dallas in a conspiracy ,details of which are still being kept under wraps.

The NoKo crisis has some similarities.Officially the Korean War hasn't ended,with a huge US mil. force still in SoKo.What Young Leader Kim has demonstrated is that he is quite capable of what the Israeli's call the "Samson option",bringing the whole ME house down with their N-deterrent,which they've deliberately kept very opaque.Everyone knows that Israel has N-weapons thanks to one M.Vanunu,still a "house guest" of the Israeli state.

Israel lets Mordechai Vanunu discuss its nuclear program on primetime TV
In remarkable departure from decades of 'nuclear ambiguity,' man convicted of treason for leaking details of Israel's nuclear arsenal is allowed to warn of the 'danger' posed by 'Dimona powder keg'

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-le ... metime-tv/

Kim the Young "Un",makes no secret of his capability,flashing his "Ding Dong" in public and making the ladies swoon! From his standpoint it is clear that he wants a similar deal that Castro got.A guarantee of no US invasion of NoKo,the continuance of the Kim regime ,"Juche",et al,to be left undisturbed with no attempt at regime change and removal of all eco sanctions.Now that he has displayed ICBM capability and that he can hit anywhere in the US,he's proved his point,pun intended,and can now sit back and bargain with the US and its allies for a guaranteed "peace". This would probably include -for a freeze on further NoKo N-development,withdrawal of US troops with perhaps a UN force remaining instead to monitor the DMZ,and substantial eoc aid.Under no circumstances will he disband his N-arsenal.Everyone knows what happened to Gadhaffi!

The emergence of Russia as a moderator only underscores the limits of China's influence with NoKo and the rise of Russian diplomacy after success in the Crimea take-away and the complete rout of ISIS and US/western anti-Assad forces in Syria .Putin is the man of the moment not one DT,"Delirium Tremens"!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... gei-lavrov
North Korea is ready to open direct talks with US, says Russia's Sergei Lavrov
Pyongyang ‘wants above all to talk to the US about guarantees for its security’
Lavrov says he informed Rex Tillerson in Vienna on Thursday

Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, greets his US counterpart in Vienna on Thursday. Photograph: Alexander Shcherbak/Tass
Julian Borger in Washington
Thursday 7 December 2017 22.20 GMT Last modified on Thursday 7 December 2017 22.40 GMT

North Korea is open to direct talks with the US over their nuclear standoff, according to the Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, who said he passed that message to his counterpart, Rex Tillerson, when the two diplomats met in Vienna on Thursday.

There was no immediate response from Tillerson but the official position of the state department is that North Korea would have to show itself to be serious about giving up its nuclear arsenal as part of a comprehensive agreement before a dialogue could begin.

Lavrov conveyed the apparent offer on the day a top UN official, Jeffrey Feltman, met the North Korean foreign minister, Ri Yong-ho, in Pyongyang, during the first high-level UN visit to the country for six years. Feltman is an American and a former US diplomat, but the state department stressed he was not in North Korea with any message from Washington.

Analysis A guide to North Korea's advance toward nuclear weapons – in maps and charts
As North Korea’s latest launch shows increased missile capability, we chart the country’s progress in developing a nuclear weapon that can credibly threaten the US
Read more
“We know that North Korea wants above all to talk to the United States about guarantees for its security. We are ready to support that, we are ready to take part in facilitating such negotiations,” Lavrov said at an international conference in Vienna, according to the Interfax news agency. “Our American colleagues, [including] Rex Tillerson, have heard this.”

The diplomatic moves come amid an increased sense of urgency to find a way of defusing the tensions over North Korea’s increasingly ambitious nuclear and missile tests. The standoff reached a new peak on 29 November, when North Korea tested a new intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM), the Hwasong-15, capable of reaching Washington, New York and the rest of the continental United States. The missile launch followed the test of what was apparently a hydrogen bomb in September.

Pyongyang has said that current joint exercises by the US and South Korea involving hundreds of warplanes, along with “bellicose remarks” by US officials have “made an outbreak of war on the Korean peninsula an established fact”.

“The remaining question now is: when will the war break out,” a foreign ministry spokesman said on Wednesday.

North Korean officials have said in recent informal meetings that they are particularly concerned by the threat of a surprise “decapitation” strike, aimed at killing the country’s leaders and paralysing military command and control systems before Pyongyang could launch its missiles.

The heightened tensions and threatening language have increased fears around the world that the two sides could blunder into war through miscalculation, mistaking war games for a real attack or misreading blurred red lines.

US and North Korean positions are currently far apart, with Pyongyang rejecting any suggestion that its nuclear disarmament would be on the table at any future negotiation. The regime wants the US to recognise it as a nuclear weapons power and cease its “hostile policies” to North Korea, including sanctions and military manoeuvres off the Korean peninsula.

For its part, the US has rejected a “freeze-for-freeze” proposal advanced by Russia and China, by which North Korea would suspend nuclear and missile tests while the US would curtail its military exercises.

State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said on Thursday that direct talks with North Korea were “not on the table until they are willing to denuclearize.”

A photo released by the North Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) shows the launch of the newly developed inter-continental ballistic missile Hwasong-15 from an undisclosed location in North Korea on 29 November.

However, the two sides have had informal contacts this year, involving Joseph Yun, the US special representative for North Korea policy. Those contacts, known as the “New York channel” were cut by the North Koreans after threatening remarks by Donald Trump during the UN general assembly in September. But there have been some recent signs that Pyongyang might be interested in restoring the channel.

At a meeting in Stockholm that brought together western experts and officials from Pyongyang in late November, a North Korean representative appeared to raise, for the first time, the possibility of a channel for military-to-military communication with the US.

“In an informal discussion that we had in Stockholm, an official made an observation that there isn’t at present a way for the US and North Korea to work together to prevent an accident. I thought that was an interesting observation that I had not heard them say before,” said Suzanne DiMaggio, a senior fellow at the New America thinktank who has played a leading role in back-channel contacts with Iran and North Korea, and who attended the Stockholm meeting.

Analysis Donald Trump's menacing talk on North Korea is leaving the US isolated
The US president’s obliviousness to the consequences of war is the main reason why international support is weakening
Read more
“I think the US would be best served by putting aside the focus on denuclearisation and instead look at ways to prevent accidents, reduce risks and de-escalate. Those to me seem like achievable goals.”

Sue Mi Terry, a former CIA analyst who was director for Korea, Japan and Oceanic affairs at the National Security Council in the Bush and Obama administrations, said Washington might be amenable to such a military hotline being established.

“I think even this administration recognises that some sort of an open channel is needed for that, not to negotiate but to have a little more transparency,” she said. “I think everyone recognises that is needed.”

Terry, who was deputy national intelligence officer for east Asia at the National Intelligence Council from 2009 to 2010, said that it was also possible that Yun could re-establish the New York channel with Pyongyang. But she added there was little sign such contacts would lead to substantive negotiations in the current climate.

“This latest test put a big hole in the possibility of negotiation at this moment, she said. “Ambassador Yun might do that but it’s different with the White House. I’m not sure he has strong White House support.”

ramana
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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ramana » 09 Dec 2017 01:01

UlanBatori wrote:And here comes the REAL threat: US threatens to withdraw from SoKo Winter Olympics

Russia is banned, North Korea presumably may not compete and US threatens to boycott. They might as well put all the medals in a box and ship it to Beijing now. Minus the Bobsled medal to Jamaica.

Then again, a lot of heavyweight Bollywood actresses may win medals. They seem great at skiing in the movies?


You do know how to put it in perspective!!!

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ramana » 09 Dec 2017 01:02

ramana wrote:UB, A couple of years ago Robert Gates said of all problems, NoKo is intractable. You can Google it.

However I think it will involve US, China, Russia, Japan and South Korea at a minimum. India is outside factor.


Korean unification provides a mechanism for de-nuking NoKo.
China does not like Korean unification as its a looming threat.

China has to take the NoKo nukes and that will add to its stock.

So US and Russia have to supervise the de-militarization.

NoKo fears regime change and attack by US singly or in alliance.

So China and Russia have to guarantee the security of this regime.

NoKo needs economic investments
China, Japan and SoKo will have to invest here.

Now why would China and Russia agree to all this? What is their self interest?

Russia needs free hand in Ukraine.

China I don't know but they have stated their goals of First Circle (South China Sea), Second Circle ( Pacific), and Third Circle( Arctic Route to Europe)

Why would US agree to all this?

First of all US has to realize this is 21st century Cuban missile crisis.
And there is not Soviet Union to take back the nukes.

Secondly unlike Castro, Kim Young Un has the launch codes.

So its a Mexican standoff where everyone loses.

Where does India stand?

I think a denuked NoKo is a good thing for India.
And hence should support every which way it can.

What else?

I think Pakistan is a good goal.

Baluchi Independence, Sind integration , Pakjab and K-P Independence

CPEC roads in PoK on lease to China.

We are seeing the unraveling of colonialism.

Korea was an Imperial Japan Colonization project.

Thanks for listening.


Philip, My old post....

viewtopic.php?p=2234272#p2234272

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Austin » 09 Dec 2017 11:01

Image

Reentry of North Korea’s Hwasong-15 Missile

Austin
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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Austin » 09 Dec 2017 11:02



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