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India - South & North Korea Thread

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby shiv » 23 Sep 2017 07:47

ramdas wrote:@ramana:

How can you be sure that no further proliferation to Pak will occur (i.e, ``Abbasi got the message"). Abbasi is irrelevant here. GHQ could well obtain NoKo TN design.

How would this make a difference to India? The US's 10,000 nukes going up to several megatons made no difference to NoKo's posture. That is something that GHQ Pakistan will also learn from NoKo.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ramana » 23 Sep 2017 08:52

UB,

One way out is China takes back the TN and missiles etc.
And gets garuntee of no regime change like Castro got.
After that let time take it's course.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ramana » 23 Sep 2017 08:54

Let's take Pak discussion elsewhere.

We have plenty of threads.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby arun » 23 Sep 2017 09:40

Full text of the statement of Kim Jong Un regards US President Donald Trump’s speech at the UN General Assembly.

Refers to US President Donald Trump as being a “frightened dog”, “dotard”, “a rogue and a gangster fond of playing with fire” and “mentally deranged”:

Sep. 22, Juche 106 (2017) Friday

Statement of Chairman of State Affairs Commission of DPRK

Respected Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un, chairman of the State Affairs Commission of the DPRK, released a statement on Thursday.

The full text of the statement reads:

The speech made by the U.S. Chief Executive in his maiden appearance on the UN arena in the prevailing serious circumstances, in which the situation on the Korean peninsula has been rendered tense as never before and is inching closer to a touch-and-go state, is arousing worldwide concern.

A certain degree of my guess was that he would make stereo-typed, prepared remarks a little different from what he used to utter in his office on the spur of the moment as he had to speak on the world’s largest official diplomatic stage.

But, far from making somewhat plausible remarks that can be helpful to defusing tension, he made unprecedented rude nonsense one has never heard from any of his predecessors.

A frightened dog barks louder.

I would like to advise Trump to exercise prudence in selecting words and to be considerate of whom he speaks to when making a speech in front of the world.

The mentally deranged behavior of the U.S. president openly expressing on the UN arena the unethical will to “totally destroy” a sovereign state, beyond the boundary of threats of regime change or overturn of social system, makes even those with normal thinking faculty reconsider discretion and composure.

His remarks remind me of such words as “political layman” and “political heretic” which were in vogue in reference to Trump during his presidential election campaign.

After taking office Trump has rendered the world restless through threats and blackmail against all countries. He is unfit to hold the prerogative of supreme command of the military forces of a country, and he is surely a rogue and a gangster fond of playing with fire, rather than a politician.

His remarks which described the U.S. option through straightforward expression of his will have convinced me, rather than frightening or stopping me, that the path I chose is correct and that it is the one I have to follow to the last.

Now that Trump has denied the existence of and insulted me and my country in front of the eyes of the world and made the most ferocious declaration of war in history that he would destroy the DPRK, we will consider with seriousness taking a corresponding, highest level of hard-line countermeasure in history.

Action is the best option in treating the dotard who, hard of hearing, is uttering only what he wants to say.

As a man representing the DPRK and upon the dignity and honor of my state and people and upon all my own, I will make the man holding the prerogative of supreme command of the U.S. pay dearly for his rude nonsense calling for totally destroying the DPRK.

This is not a rhetorical expression loved by Trump.

I am now thinking hard about what response he could have expected from us when he allowed such eccentric words to trip off his tongue.

Whatever Trump might have expected, he will face results beyond his expectation.

I will surely and definitely tame the mentally deranged U.S. dotard with fire.


From Rodong Sinmun:

Clicky

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Yayavar » 23 Sep 2017 10:50

So US is being considered having been challenged and put in a bind. What is in it for N Korea? What concessions does it get?
Is Cheen squeezing it to take the risks, if so, what is Cheen giving in addition or not taking away for this service? US out of Pacific or Indo-china sea or Guam are for Cheen's benefit. NK could continue as before.. n'est-ce pas ?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 23 Sep 2017 17:00

NoKo volcano begins to wake up?
Now they say "3.4 at 0km" has been detected- but "natural" because it does not contain the "signature of artificial quakes".
Interesting explanation for earlier "5.6 at 10km, re-classified as 6.3 at 0km". How does this seismic sensing work? Let's say they rejected the solution saying 0 km at first - shouldn't the 10km depth solution have come out to be a bigger number than 6.3?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 23 Sep 2017 17:09

Yayavar wrote:So US is being considered having been challenged and put in a bind. What is in it for N Korea? What concessions does it get?
Is Cheen squeezing it to take the risks, if so, what is Cheen giving in addition or not taking away for this service? US out of Pacific or Indo-china sea or Guam are for Cheen's benefit. NK could continue as before.. n'est-ce pas ?

Maybe cheen has won the Hearts and Minds of the NoKo regime? (by "Yes Minister" method)
Does KimUn have any choice other than to obey?
But I realize that is a circular argument: The answer to "Why is NoKo threatening suicide?" cannot be "Because NoKo is afraid of China". Or can it?
If that were the case, what would happen if KimUn came on TV and said: "Beloveds-On-A-Diet! Let us stand up to bullying by cheen foreigners, and reunite with our friendly coujins to the south!"
Would US put FIA (Fighters In The Air) and BOG to protect Pyongyang? Or would KimUn be whisked off to the Gobi Le-Education Centel too quickly? Maybe KimUn has no choice, but to live under the assurance from Eleven:
Don't worry tubby! Roundeyes won't attack, we have won their Hearts & Minds!


So then the question comes: Why is Eleven so sure? Do we really have a Manchurian Candidate - and not the one we thought? BTW, has anyone investigated the cheen connections of CNN I wonder... we have all been saying that for a long time, but it is now so blatant!

Yayavar's other question is what is the long-term end-game promised to NoKo?

If they get away with this, US influence in the region will shrink fast (reports in the China thread speak of nations already Finlandized by watching US impotence re: Spratlys), and SoKo will lean MUCH more towards cheen. Already sentiment inside SoKo is maybe 55-45 in favor of cheen vs. US: something about Chinese Invading soldiers being much better-behaved in Korean War towards South Korean civilians than their US/UN Protectors. End of US threats to NoKo, followed by swift unravelling of sanctions. NoKo becomes cheen's AliBaba outlet for nukes at "lo-lo prices!"
SoKo minus US nukes is like Bhutan minus IA support. Ripe for the picking. May become a province of the great PeeAllSee for all we know.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby shiv » 23 Sep 2017 17:30

Yayavar wrote:So US is being considered having been challenged and put in a bind. What is in it for N Korea? What concessions does it get?
Is Cheen squeezing it to take the risks, if so, what is Cheen giving in addition or not taking away for this service? US out of Pacific or Indo-china sea or Guam are for Cheen's benefit. NK could continue as before.. n'est-ce pas ?

Turn the question around. What's in it for the US to stay in the region and protect South Korea? Is this the old "supporting freedom and democracy" business? Even if Kim were the dotard he would see that this is nonsense. The US is simply sitting like top dog in the region based on some old historical victory in WW2 followed by on 1950s stalemate in Korea and a defeat in Vietnam. For Kim - kicking the US further away would be as much of a gain as the US considers it a duty to protect South Korean freedom and democracy.

I think China is a bogey here and any explanation that does not seem right involving Kim is simply ported as something that China is doing. One of the things I would like to ask is that we had bright thinkers pointing out that cyber-war from China was knocking down Su 30s and helicopters in Arunachal Pradesh. How come that cyber war is such an epic fail versus the US and South Korea. No planes going down. No wait. I know. In this case China is not involved. Does not make sense to pull in China for that.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby arun » 23 Sep 2017 18:27

UlanBatori wrote:Guys, if the NoKo nuclear caper gets away free, next to nuclearize could be Venezuela, ending the Monroe Doctrine. At that point, the US would be seen to be as powerful as Switzerland. Swaziland.

Cannot be allowed to happen.


Unlikely that Venuzuela will go Nuclear as a scant 3 days ago ie Sept 20, 2017 they signed the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. Venezuela was in the first lot of countries to sign up. No joy with Cuba as they have likewise signed up in the first lot. Colombia is another matter as they are yet to sign up :wink: .

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 23 Sep 2017 20:01

^ Small joy. If the Pacific & 7th Fleets return with tails between legs and NoKo as a Confirmed Nyookular Power, Caracas can just get an inflated King Kong model and get it to say "BOO!!" and that will be considered Sufficient Deterrent. Yeah, they don't have china near them, but they do have Brazil. If the US can't stand up to NoKo, what makes anyone think it can stand up to Brazil? And I bet they have a Trump Tower in Rio even. Nope! Nothing to deter Venezuela.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 24 Sep 2017 00:01

More posturing. US flies bombers close to Loan coast.

The more I see of this posturing the less I feel that there will actually be a outbreak of war.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ShyamSP » 24 Sep 2017 05:14

shiv wrote:
Yayavar wrote:So US is being considered having been challenged and put in a bind. What is in it for N Korea? What concessions does it get?
Is Cheen squeezing it to take the risks, if so, what is Cheen giving in addition or not taking away for this service? US out of Pacific or Indo-china sea or Guam are for Cheen's benefit. NK could continue as before.. n'est-ce pas ?

Turn the question around. What's in it for the US to stay in the region and protect South Korea? Is this the old "supporting freedom and democracy" business? Even if Kim were the dotard he would see that this is nonsense. The US is simply sitting like top dog in the region based on some old historical victory in WW2 followed by on 1950s stalemate in Korea and a defeat in Vietnam. For Kim - kicking the US further away would be as much of a gain as the US considers it a duty to protect South Korean freedom and democracy.

I think China is a bogey here and any explanation that does not seem right involving Kim is simply ported as something that China is doing. One of the things I would like to ask is that we had bright thinkers pointing out that cyber-war from China was knocking down Su 30s and helicopters in Arunachal Pradesh. How come that cyber war is such an epic fail versus the US and South Korea. No planes going down. No wait. I know. In this case China is not involved. Does not make sense to pull in China for that.


All NK nonsense aside, China wants US to get out of the region. US wants stay pretty on the eastern side. NK gives freepass of justifications for the US without asking. Extra bravado of NK may be from Russian backing. If there is more escalation, some 1000s of yellow race people of 4 countries die. US (UK was past master) keeps middle east in turmoil until oil runs out. Same way here. Turmoil gives US justifications to stay and deploy weapons in non-US regions for decades.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2017 05:42

Ah! The Maestro of CT Himself is here. What is your prognosis, SSPji? Based on the above it looks like war, hey? Because if NoKo flies off a few successful ICBM demos in the Pacific then it is equal-equal MAD standoff and US has no scare power. Paper-Tiger. So I say the "DoTard" has to launch attack very soon.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby shiv » 24 Sep 2017 06:30

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:More posturing. US flies bombers close to Loan coast.

The more I see of this posturing the less I feel that there will actually be a outbreak of war.

It may not be that useless. It definitely serves two purposes
1. It serves as a challenge - if NoKo tries a shootdown/intercept an incident can be created
2. It will force Kim to keep his head low and keep out of sight. I am guessing that the fat boy will not appear in public with a bevy of weeping wimmens trying to get close anytime soon
Last edited by shiv on 24 Sep 2017 06:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby shiv » 24 Sep 2017 06:36

ShyamSP wrote:
All NK nonsense aside, China wants US to get out of the region.

China wanting the US to get out does not mean that NoKo does not and cannot independently wish for the same thing. Everything I see seems to suggest that NoKo is not going to become a Chinese colony any time soon.

In fact pulling China into every situation only serves the purpose of ignoring Noko and not taking any action because of fear of China. We saw the same types of fear of China in Doklam when every weather related aircraft crash was blamed on Chinese cyber weapons.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2017 07:47

Even by NoKo standards, this seems to be over the line.
North Korea says rockets to U.S. 'inevitable' after Trump dubs Kim 'rocket man'

i wonder if the translation is accurate, or did the CIA put that statement on the Reuters wire. If someone says: "I am going to shoot you" doesn't it become self-defense to kill him at that point? Does one have to wait for the bullet to start moving before shooting? So it seems like they have some intel that US is simply not ready to start shooting, so they can do these and then conclude a deal b4 the blow comes.

U.S. President Donald Trump had made “our rockets’ visit to the entire U.S. mainland inevitable” by calling North Korean leader Kim Jong Un “rocket man”. “Through such a prolonged and arduous struggle, now we are finally only a few steps away from the final gate of completion of the state nuclear force,” Ri told the annual gathering of world leaders for the United Nations General Assembly.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2017 07:59

I mean, someone can say: "We are developing nuclear weapons to deter the threat from these aggressors". But if they say: "We are going to send a missile with a nuclear weapon into your country as soon as we are ready" is a suicidal statement, is it not? Why do they say this?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby shiv » 24 Sep 2017 08:02

UlanBatori wrote:I mean, someone can say: "We are developing nuclear weapons to deter the threat from these aggressors". But if they say: "We are going to send a missile with a nuclear weapon into your country as soon as we are ready" is a suicidal statement, is it not? Why do they say this?

It could also mean - "You may talk like a tsooth but I can talk like a bigger tsooth than you.."

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2017 08:18

Wonder why they can't say something civilized like:
"Yo're ugly and yore momma dresses u ugly!"

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby saumitra_j » 24 Sep 2017 10:23

Wouldn't the flights of B1B also to do recce and find out about NoKo orbat? It won't be mere posturing I reckon. The B1B is a pretty big platform and I am sure they have a whole lot of recce equipment in there. I think the US is taking the first steps towards war. If the US doesn't act now, this will be their Doklam moment :rotfl:

Edit: Found a link which says that the US has used these as a non traditional recce program: Link

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ShyamSP » 24 Sep 2017 11:12

UlanBatori wrote:Ah! The Maestro of CT Himself is here. What is your prognosis, SSPji? Based on the above it looks like war, hey? Because if NoKo flies off a few successful ICBM demos in the Pacific then it is equal-equal MAD standoff and US has no scare power. Paper-Tiger. So I say the "DoTard" has to launch attack very soon.


Kim and Trump verbal noise aside, US and Russia are beneficiaries of this escalation games and china is the loser. War is unlikely as NK will have to back down as war can backfire to end NK regime and its backers. War/military investments in the middle east and countries east of China are always net positive for US so it is never a hard loss for what you call paper-tiger in any way.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 24 Sep 2017 11:47

The more I see this the more confused I am getting. Honestly, one day it feels like business as usual, and then some news comes up and this seems an unstable equilibrium. Something has to give. But what confuses the hell out of me is that if something gives its most probably going to be a tectonic shift, which in my limited knowledge, I cannot envisage. Hence the reticence to accept change. And all I want to do is act like an ostrich.

Thank god, I am not in the business of crystal ball gazing. Would have made a very poor soothsayer indeed.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby arun » 24 Sep 2017 16:46

arun wrote:Full text of the statement of Kim Jong Un regards US President Donald Trump’s speech at the UN General Assembly.

Refers to US President Donald Trump as being a “frightened dog”, “dotard”, “a rogue and a gangster fond of playing with fire” and “mentally deranged”:

Sep. 22, Juche 106 (2017) Friday

Statement of Chairman of State Affairs Commission of DPRK

Respected Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un, chairman of the State Affairs Commission of the DPRK, released a statement on Thursday.

The full text of the statement reads:

The speech made by the U.S. Chief Executive in his maiden appearance on the UN arena in the prevailing serious circumstances, in which the situation on the Korean peninsula has been rendered tense as never before and is inching closer to a touch-and-go state, is arousing worldwide concern.

A certain degree of my guess was that he would make stereo-typed, prepared remarks a little different from what he used to utter in his office on the spur of the moment as he had to speak on the world’s largest official diplomatic stage.

But, far from making somewhat plausible remarks that can be helpful to defusing tension, he made unprecedented rude nonsense one has never heard from any of his predecessors.

A frightened dog barks louder.

I would like to advise Trump to exercise prudence in selecting words and to be considerate of whom he speaks to when making a speech in front of the world.

The mentally deranged behavior of the U.S. president openly expressing on the UN arena the unethical will to “totally destroy” a sovereign state, beyond the boundary of threats of regime change or overturn of social system, makes even those with normal thinking faculty reconsider discretion and composure.

His remarks remind me of such words as “political layman” and “political heretic” which were in vogue in reference to Trump during his presidential election campaign.

After taking office Trump has rendered the world restless through threats and blackmail against all countries. He is unfit to hold the prerogative of supreme command of the military forces of a country, and he is surely a rogue and a gangster fond of playing with fire, rather than a politician.

His remarks which described the U.S. option through straightforward expression of his will have convinced me, rather than frightening or stopping me, that the path I chose is correct and that it is the one I have to follow to the last.

Now that Trump has denied the existence of and insulted me and my country in front of the eyes of the world and made the most ferocious declaration of war in history that he would destroy the DPRK, we will consider with seriousness taking a corresponding, highest level of hard-line countermeasure in history.

Action is the best option in treating the dotard who, hard of hearing, is uttering only what he wants to say.

As a man representing the DPRK and upon the dignity and honor of my state and people and upon all my own, I will make the man holding the prerogative of supreme command of the U.S. pay dearly for his rude nonsense calling for totally destroying the DPRK.

This is not a rhetorical expression loved by Trump.

I am now thinking hard about what response he could have expected from us when he allowed such eccentric words to trip off his tongue.

Whatever Trump might have expected, he will face results beyond his expectation.

I will surely and definitely tame the mentally deranged U.S. dotard with fire.


From Rodong Sinmun:

Clicky



Excerpt dealing with US President Donald Trump from the statement by Ri Yong Ho, Minister for Foreign Affairs of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea aka DPRK aka North Korea at the General Debate of the 72nd Session ofthe United Nations General Assembly on 23rd September 2017 :

Before going into the main points in my debate, I feel forced to make comments on the speech uttered 4 days ago by someone called the U.S. president that rendered this sacred UN arena tainted.

Since Trump uttered such reckless and violent words provoking the supreme dignity of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) at this very platform, I think it is fair enough for me to make a response in the corresponding tone.

During his 8 months in power, he has turned the White House into a noisy marketing place full of crackling sounds of abacus beads and now he has tried to turn the UN arena into a gangsters' nest where money is respected and bloodshed is the order ofthe day.

The absurd reality that the person like Trump, a mentally deranged person full of megalomania and complacency, the person who is chastised even by American people as "Commander in Grief, "Lyin King", "President Evil" is holding the seat ofthe U.S. President, and the dangerous reality that the gambler who grew old using threats, frauds and all other schemes to acquire a patch of land holds the nuclear button; these are what constitute the gravest threat to the international peace and security today.

Due to his lacking of basic common knowledge and proper sentiment, he tried to insult the supreme dignity ofmy country by referring it to a rocket. By doing so, however, he committed an irreversible mistake of making our rockets' visit to the entire U.S. mainland inevitable all the more.

None other than Trump himself is on a suicide mission.

In case innocent lives ofthe U.S. are lost because ofthis suicide attack. Trump will be held totally responsible.

The respected supreme leader Comrade Kim Jong Un stated : as a man representing the DPRX and on behalf of the dignity and honor of my state and people and on my own, I will make the man holding the prerogative ofthe supreme command in the U.S. pay dearly for his speech calling for totally destroying the DPRK.

Trump might not have been aware what is uttered from his mouth but we will make sure that he bears consequences far beyond his words, far beyond the scope of what he can handle even if he is ready to do so.


Clicky

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby arun » 24 Sep 2017 16:49

US President Donald Trump returns fire and fury with a tweet:

Just heard Foreign Minister of North Korea speak at U.N. If he echoes thoughts of Little Rocket Man, they won't be around much longer!

Clicky

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2017 17:31

Oh, well! Nothing to fear. Honorable Video Creator from Gobar Crimes is definitely the same one doing the videos for Pyongyang

Badly needs to spend some time watching Kalibr strikes on YouTube to better depict a missile strike. Also, A NON-NUCLEAR missile to strike an aircraft carrier? :rotfl: Better to have used a Guided Container Ship.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2017 17:38

Oh, I completely missed this assurance from a week ago. NOW we can all rest E-Z. Eleven Of Perfect Honesty Hath Spoken
China has warned that it will never accept North Korea as a nuclear weapons state, Beijing’s ambassador to the US warned, just hours after Kim Jong-un said his country was on course to achieve that “final goal”. Speaking at a Chinese embassy event in Washington DC, :rotfl: Cui Tiankai also called on Donald Trump’s administration to stop sabre-rattling against the secretive communist state. Instead the US should “resume dialogue and negotiation” over the stand-off, he said.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby shiv » 24 Sep 2017 19:28


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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2017 22:02

I didn't know this is what Trump said:
“Just heard Foreign Minister of North Korea speak at U.N. If he echoes thoughts of Little Rocket Man, they won’t be around much longer!” Trump said on Twitter late on Saturday.

I wonder if it was like this in the run-up to the Vietnam War:
Why is Eisenhower sending in the Marines YET?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Sep 2017 06:02

Finally beginning to see the logic of US actions & words, by reading these dumbasses' whines carefully:
“Trump is limiting our own options by behaving and speaking like this, because now we either have to act, which really is unthinkable, or we’re going to look like a paper tiger because we can’t act,” she said. “Internationally, we look foolish, and now he has made it extremely personal, so Kim Jong-un cannot back down. It’s reckless.”


DT has forced KimUn past the point of no return.

Let's take a moment to remind ourselves why NoKo has been allowed to go ahead with nuclearizing all these years: It is imbeciles like these:

“The comments give the world the sense that he is increasingly unhinged and unreliable,” said Mr. Hill, the dean of the Josef Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver.
Mr. Hill, who as envoy to South Korea under George W. Bush was the last American to hold formal talks with the government in Pyongyang, said he and Condoleezza Rice, then the secretary of state, routinely advised Mr. Bush to “avoid the personal invectives,” because “they never help.”

One of many US diplo-(door)mats who returned from the "6-Party Talks" each time wearing a completely new set of clothes from K-Mart, having left their not-so-old ones in Beijing.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby periaswamy » 25 Sep 2017 06:15

The comments give the world the sense that he is increasingly unhinged and unreliable,” said Mr. Hill, the dean of the Josef Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver.
Mr. Hill, who as envoy to South Korea under George W. Bush was the last American to hold formal talks with the government in Pyongyang, said he and Condoleezza Rice, then the secretary of state, routinely advised Mr. Bush to “avoid the personal invectives,” because “they never help.”


It is a wonder that cretins like Mr. Hill rise up to the levels where they advice the govt. of the day without understanding elementary schoolyard bully psychology. Donald Trump is raising the cost for the Chinese c***ukers and their so***mizing buddies in North Korea with just some calculated statements that call out Kim Jong Un as an impotent joker and his chinese backers as a bunch of numbnuts. It is surprising that the US public is not behind this president that is playing the game like it is meant to be played. Talk is cheap, and NoKo and Eleven Xinping depend on that.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Dipanker » 25 Sep 2017 06:51

DT has forced KimUn past the point of no return, IMO is a erroneous assumption. KIM will just cooly back down in the sense that he would stop stepping on Trump's tail for now, just coolly go on with his merry ways of building the nukes and missiles.

So what does Trump do if Kim now stops stepping on his tail for now and operates in a quiet mode?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby shiv » 25 Sep 2017 07:34

Some cold war president asked his advisers the question: "If we nuke the Soviets pre-emptively, can we have a guarantee that they will not be left with even one nuke that they can send to the US?" The answer was "No", and this served as a deterrent in the early cold war years when the US had far many more nukes than the USSR.

The US political system is not beyond blaming the armed forces for failures. I digress but the difference between the US and India is that India does not fund its forces half enough, but then India does not commence overseas campaigns either - so the armed forces feel the pinch of poor equipment and funding when someone attacks us or threatens to attack. The US on the other hand generously funds its forces and this allows politicians to start overseas campaigns that may or may not be winnable. It is up to the US forces to make an assessment of whether they can pull military action off or not "successfully". Let alone Vietnam - even Afghanistan and Iraq have been lost by US leaders, not by the US military. They have made enemies who will not forget for a long long time.

I actually agree with the assessment that Trump has narrowed the options for his own armed forces by talking like a dotard. The forces have a task to perform to silence Kim and neutralize his threats. This requires preparation and intelligence. Brute force will not cut it. Yes, brute force will cause a lot of damage - and Trump is talking like a man who says "We will cause a lot of damage". But can he get a guarantee that NoKo will be left with no way of retaliation if not now - say 10 years from now? That guarantee will have to come from the US armed forces who will have to face the music.

Nuclear bombs will neither be used nor actually make the cut in terms of the desired end result - which I assume is the end of the Kim regime and his nuclear threat. Even 100 random one megaton bombs will not guarantee that everything is destroyed, but it will guarantee a lot of deaths and fallout that will turn public opinion in South Korea and Japan against the US. The US will have to use these nations as bases. Or else it is Guam. It is easy to see that Kim is hardly a maniac in wanting to render Guam unusable.He has some good military advisers. So does Trump - but I think Trump shoots his mouth off while Kim's statements are actually calibrated to insult and cause outrage knowing the US's vulnerabilities and weaknesses with regard to war in the Korean peninsula.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Sep 2017 07:54

Shiv: If a noko campaign results in reunification, that ends all noko revenge ambitions. Without reunification there is no endgame here. True, its the US Armed Forces that have to achieve the desired end result; all of us arm-chair cheerleaders have no idea of the realities.
But that said, the clearly predictable consequence of inaction is a NoKo with an immense H-bomb/missile arsenal. The US critics of DT ignore the sheer horror of this reality in their rush to appear oh-so-expert, and snipe at DT's backside. A NoKo with such weapons is not a reality that anyone in the world should view with cheer - not even cheen because their customers are the targets.

Neither is a cheen that can lord it over the entire SCS/SE Asia unchallenged, taking over wherever they please. For example, what stops a takeover of the Andamans? At least Nicobar? Yeah, yeah, I know, the massive IN and IAF there will blast the waves of PLAN/PLAF and hordes of landing craft that can appear out of Myanmar there any day. Will India REALLY go to all-out war with cheen over a "few islands 600 miles away"?

DT, underneath all the bluster, must have lost a lot of sleep about this choice, but has made his choice and has clarity in his mind about it. He is in an Arjuna moment, post-advice. Now he is closing off the avenues for his opponent to say: "Ah! All a misunderstanding onlee!" by humiliating him personally in public. Many Kurukskhetra parallels here. I am sure there are lots of doubters in DupleeCity, desperately looking for all sorts of excuses not to go to war.

So IMO, narrowing the choice is an excellent course of action - no one will go to war unless all options are closed off. When the NoKO sees that all the rail tracks have merged into one and the express train is heading straight at them, there will be a moment of clarity. Whether they use that to back off and surrender, or do a Saddam-like Mother Of All Battles hype to the end, remains to be seen.

As for nukes, I don't think either side will use them - if the war is very soon. The idea that US has to use nukes to "destroy" noko is flawed. Look at Syria. Completely "conventional", kind, gentle, fratricidal, 99% devastation of every city except Damascus.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Dipanker » 25 Sep 2017 08:34

North Korea's geo location severely limits US nuclear option, if there is south-easterly or southerly wind, some of the fallout radiation will blow over China or Russia or both, westerly or northwesterly wind will blow it over Japan. I don't think any of these countries will appreciate some free radiation therapy. North Korea on the other hand must exclusively rely on nukes as it can't win a conventional war against USA. Syrian example does not apply to North Korea, there are no Shias and Sunnis living there. So unless NOKO has the capability to deliver something to its intended target, be it the USA mainland or one of its allies, it is sitting duck in a conventional war, damage to SOKO not withstanding. Of course SOKO won't like that either.

So does NOKO has nukes? Yes. Has missile? Yes. If past is any guide, this too shall pass.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Austin » 25 Sep 2017 10:26


UlanBatori
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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Sep 2017 19:18

NoKo Phoren Minister to make speech at UN
BREAKING: North Korea to make SHOCK announcement 'within the hour' as fears of war loom
NORTH Korea's top man at the UN is due to make a rare announcement to the press at the UN amid growing fears of conflict between Donald trump and Kim Jong-un.Kim's foreign minister Ri Yong Ho will make a public statement at 3pm GMT in a very rare briefing to reporters at the UN Millenium hotel in New York. It is unknown what he will say, :eek: but it comes amid a time of fears of conflict between the US and North Korea.

IOW World holds its breath in anticipation and will hang on every word uttered by this Great Statesman will dissing Orange-utan as "unhinged dotard". :mrgreen:

Will he outdo Kruschev banging his shoes on the podium? Or Al Quolin Bin Powell waving "Dubya EmDee" photos from 10 years ago as "proof"?

saip
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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby saip » 25 Sep 2017 20:25

What kind of paper is this rag?

One of the headlines says:

"New calculations reveal EXACT DATE world to end as Nibiru arrives NEXT MONTH"

If the world is ending next why bother with anything else.

Added later: Oh, I see that the world already ended on Sep 23rd. We must be living in Alternate World.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Amber G. » 25 Sep 2017 21:03

ramana wrote:I found the book by Wen Ho Lee on modeling shaped charges.
basically tells you how to set thing off.

Unless its some other physics book.

Yes, that one (sort of text book).. I think he has also written a book about his personal ordeal (I have not read the book)

Interested people may like to read, the transcripts of the court proceedings.. as much detail of the case is given.. and one can hear prosecutors own words etc..(MIT.edu site)
http://web.mit.edu/jmorzins/www/lee_parker_opinion.html
Last para from the judge himself is quite remarkable:
(Read the whole, or at least a few para above to get the whole context)
Although, as I indicated, I have no authority to speak on behalf of the Executive Branch, the President, the Vice-president, the Attorney General, or the Secretary of the Department of Energy, as a member of the Third Branch of the United States Government, the Judiciary, the United States Courts, I sincerely apologize to you, Dr. Lee, for the unfair manner you were held in custody by the Executive Branch

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Amber G. » 25 Sep 2017 21:24

xpost:
ramana wrote:AmberG,
You really think those Centrifuges work and are not a scam?

FWIW - I think (and this I believe is thinking of Pakistani scientists and US intelligence too) that NK centrifuges do work and actually even in 90's it was NK which was helping Pak technically..(They had better scientists than AQK).
No secret that NK technicians helped the Pakis in production of Krytrons..
(For example read this 2009 article carefully -http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/27/AR2009122701205.html which I found googling but there may be better docs which people here may know more)..

Troubling is, as I made a post few months ago in BRF, saying NK has capability to produce H-bomb.. They (NK ) were putting "on line ads" to sell(!) Li-6 (needed in producing thermo-nukes -
and thus saying that they even have plenty to sell it to others)..According to a recent UN report the ad caught attention and intelligence estimated that they could supply about 10 Kg of Li-6 per month...



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