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India - South & North Korea Thread

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Prem
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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Prem » 16 Apr 2017 07:26

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/here ... 12661.html
Here's what's going on with Chinese troop movements on North Korea's border

As tensions climb to historic highs between the US and its allies and North Korea, rumors of massive movements of Chinese troops near North Korea's border keep surfacing.A Pentagon official told Business Insider that the US had heard the reports but had "not seen anything to corroborate it."But Chinese troops are always stationed in the northeast near North Korea, and Yun Sun, a senior associate with the East Asia Program at the Stimson Center, told Business Insider that "Chinese troop movements happen often along that border" when North Korean nuclear and missile provocations seem imminent."When North Korea acts up with some sort of provocation, the Chinese in the past have moved their troops to reinforce their deployments in the northeast for military preparedness," Yun said."On the other hand," Yun said, "I think it does signal that the Chinese are concerned about a potential escalation, or even potential conflict" between the US and North Korea, as North Korea plans a nuclear test and the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier pulls up to Korea's coast.This footage purporting to show a massive movement of Chinese forces has surfaced online, further stoking the rumors:

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby svinayak » 16 Apr 2017 12:37

Austin wrote:PRC does not need these test of such low yeald device , They already have many dozens test under the belt for proof testing their warhead design and the West has given PRC the computer codes to simulate nuclear test without having the actual need to test the device , This was part of CTBT trade off that Bill Clinton did with China.

Testing a Fission Device or Boosted Fission Device does not need great effort other then to have fissile material , Such test were done in 50's with basic elementary calculator.


Many countries have outsourced their N test to PRC

PRC allows NK to do the test.

NK does the test and the design for other countries is improved at every stage

Same thing with missiles

Middle east customers may be the latest customers

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby svinayak » 16 Apr 2017 12:40

Prem wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/heres-whats-going-chinese-troop-205712661.html
Here's what's going on with Chinese troop movements on North Korea's border

As tensions climb to historic highs between the US and its allies and North Korea, rumors of massive movements of Chinese troops near North Korea's border keep surfacing.A Pentagon official told Business Insider that the US had heard the reports but had "not seen anything to corroborate it."But Chinese troops are always stationed in the northeast near North Korea, and Yun Sun, a senior associate with the East Asia Program at the Stimson Center, told Business Insider that "Chinese troop movements happen often along that border" when North Korean nuclear and missile provocations seem imminent."When North Korea acts up with some sort of provocation, the Chinese in the past have moved their troops to reinforce their deployments in the northeast for military preparedness," Yun said."On the other hand," Yun said, "I think it does signal that the Chinese are concerned about a potential escalation, or even potential conflict" between the US and North Korea, as North Korea plans a nuclear test and the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier pulls up to Korea's coast.This footage purporting to show a massive movement of Chinese forces has surfaced online, further stoking the rumors:



If SK and US allies collapse NK and move in closer to China border it becomes a dangerous situation

China will have a superpower as a neighbor which it never bargained for


NK really testing Uncle was never part of the plan

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ArjunPandit » 16 Apr 2017 19:39

should we raise a toast to the failed NoKo tests, for we face same the dainted painted missiles

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ramana » 17 Apr 2017 08:10

Test missiles have destruct systems in case they go off course. These could be self actuated or command actuated. Something is triggering self destruct actuation. Doesn't mean real ones go bad. Could be only test missiles have this affliction.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby arun » 09 May 2017 18:40

North Korea seems to be mighty pissed off with the friend Peoples Republic of China for two articles that appeared in PRC Communists Party and Government controlled mouthpieces, Peoples Daily and Global Times.

Article datelined May 4, Juche 106, in Rodong Sinmun which is described as the official organ of the Central Committee of the Workers’ Party of Korea.

May. 5, Juche 106 (2017) Friday

Reckless Remarks Undermining DPRK-China Relations Should Be Stopped

A string of absurd and reckless remarks are now heard from big neighboring countries, perhaps frightened at the U.S. blackmail and war racket, every day only to render the acute situation of the Korean peninsula more strained.

The People's Daily and the Global Times, widely known as media speaking for the official stand of the Chinese party and government, have recently carried commentaries asserting that the DPRK's access to nukes poses a threat to the national interests of China. They shifted the blame for the deteriorated relations between the DPRK and China onto the DPRK and raised lame excuses for the base acts of dancing to the tune of the U.S.

Those commentaries claimed that the DPRK poses a threat to "the security in the northeastern region of China" by conducting nuclear tests less than 100 km away from its border with China. They even talked rubbish that the DPRK strains the situation in Northeast Asia and "offers the U.S. excuses for deploying more strategic assets" in the region.

Not content with such paradox, the commentaries asserted that to remain averse to the DPRK's access to nukes is to preserve interests common to the U.S. and China, calling for slapping harsher sanctions against the DPRK in order to avert a war which would bring danger to China.

The newspapers, even claiming China holds the initiative in handling the DPRK-China relations, made no scruple of letting out a string of provocative remarks urging the DPRK to choose one among such options if it doesn't want military confrontation with China--"whether to face protracted isolation or to preserve national security by making a U-turn" and whether to break Sino-DPRK friendship or to dismantle its nukes.

This is just a wanton violation of the independent and legitimate rights, dignity and supreme interests of the DPRK and, furthermore, constitutes an undisguised threat to an honest-minded neighboring country which has a long history and tradition of friendship.

China is hyping up "damage caused by the DPRK's nuclear tests" in its three northeastern provinces. This only reveals the ulterior purpose sought by it, being displeased with the DPRK's rapid development of nukes.

As far as "violation of national interests" oft-repeated by politicians and media persons of China is concerned, it is just the issue that the DPRK should rather talk much about.

It is just the DPRK whose strategic interests have been repeatedly violated due to insincerity and betrayal on the part of its partner, not China at all.

Some theorists of China are spouting a load of nonsense that the DPRK's access to nukes strains the situation in Northeast Asia and offers the U.S. an excuse for beefing up its strategic assets in the region. But the U.S. had activated its strategy for dominating Asia-Pacific long before the DPRK had access to nukes, and its primary target is just China.

China should acknowledge in an honest manner that the DPRK has just contributed to protecting peace and security of China, foiling the U.S. scheme for aggression by waging a hard fight in the frontline of the showdown with the U.S. for more than seven decades, and thank the DPRK for it.

Some ignorant politicians and media persons of China daringly assert that the traditional relations of the DPRK-China friendship were in line with the interests of each county in the past. They are advised to clearly understand the essence of history before opening their mouth.

Their call for not only slapping stricter sanctions but also not ruling out a military intervention if the DPRK refuses to abandon its nuclear program is no more than an extremely ego-driven theory based on big-power chauvinism that not only the strategic interests but also the dignity and vital rights of the DPRK should be sacrificed for the interests of China.

One must clearly understand that the DPRK's line of access to nukes for the existence and development of the country can neither be changed nor shaken and that the DPRK will never beg for the maintenance of friendship with China, risking its nuclear program which is as precious as its own life, no matter how valuable the friendship is.

The DPRK, which has already become one of the most powerful nuclear weapons state, does not feel the need to think over how many options it has now.

China should no longer try to test the limits of the DPRK's patience but make proper strategic option, facing up to the situation.

China had better ponder over the grave consequences to be entailed by its reckless act of chopping down the pillar of the DPRK-China relations.

Kim Chol


From here:

Rodong Sinmun

ramana
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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ramana » 09 May 2017 21:14

Some Indian Def journalists are claiming India should not piss of NoKo and jeopardize ties. What ties are these/

As far as we know NoKO has gone overboard supplying NoDongs aka Ghauri missiles to Pak and much more hardware. And it is suspected of passing on nuke test data to Pak.
So what these are these journo talking about?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby abhik » 09 May 2017 23:33

South Korea too has been open to selling arms to the pakies, might have been on a much larger scale if not for the fact that the pakies were broke. And anyway we tolerate the Chinese, US, Russians supplying arms to Pakistan, if we have compartmentalised our relationship with these countries then why not with NoKo?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Philip » 05 Jul 2017 11:46

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ns-workers
North Korea missile test a 'new threat to world', says US amid show of military force
Kim Jong-un calls test a 4 July gift to ‘American ********’ as US secretary of state urges action against North Koreans and regime :rotfl:

Could North Korea trigger a nuclear war?

Justin McCurry in Osaka
Wednesday 5 July 2017 01.14 BST First published on Wednesday 5 July 2017 00.32 BST
The United States has ramped up pressure on North Korea after Tuesday’s successful intercontinental ballistic missile test, making a show of force off the Korean peninsula with a “precision firing” exercise and warning that any country harbouring North Korean workers was abetting Kim Jong-un’s regime.

The US secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, confirmed North Korea had conducted its first test of an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) and called for global action to counter an “escalation of the threat” posed by the regime.

Kim Jong-un delivered his own message on Wednesday, with the state Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) quoting him as saying: “American ******** would be not very happy with this gift sent on the July 4 anniversary.”

The news agency claimed the missile was capable of carrying a “large, heavy nuclear warhead” that could survive re-entry into the Earth’s atmosphere.

Kim was quoted as saying the North’s long confrontation with Washington had entered the “final stage” and that Pyongyang would not put its nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles up for negotiation “unless the US hostile policy and nuclear threats come to an end completely”. A report in its state media said Kim urged his scientists to “frequently send big and small ‘gift packages’ to the Yankees”.

North Korea claims successful test of intercontinental ballistic missile
Tillerson warned that any country that hosted North Korean workers, or provided economic or military aid to Pyongyang, or failed to implement United Nations sanctions was “aiding and abetting a dangerous regime”.

He said in a statement: “The United States strongly condemns North Korea’s launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile. Testing an ICBM represents a new escalation of the threat to the United States, our allies and partners, the region, and the world. All nations should publicly demonstrate to North Korea that there are consequences to their pursuit of nuclear weapons.”

He added that the US “will never accept a nuclear-armed North Korea”.

The security council is expected to meet on Wednesday for an emergency closed-door meeting, with the US and other countries expected to seek agreement on tougher measures against Pyongyang. Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin are expected to address growing North Korean provocations at their meeting on the sidelines of the G20 summit in Hamburg on Friday.

North Korean leader Kim Jong-un looks on during the test-fire of intercontinental ballistic missile Hwasong-14 in this undated photo.
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North Korean leader Kim Jong-un looks on during the test-fire of intercontinental ballistic missile Hwasong-14 in this undated photo. Photograph: KCNA/Reuters
The UN secretary general, Antonio Guterres, on Tuesday strongly condemned North Korea’s missile launch. “This action is yet another brazen violation of security council resolutions and constitutes a dangerous escalation of the situation,” he said.

Guterres stressed “the importance of maintaining the unity of the international community in addressing this serious challenge,” in a reference to US-Sino differences.

China is pushing for talks between world powers and North Korea on dismantling its nuclear program but the US maintains that Pyongyang must first halt its missile and nuclear tests.

South Korea and the US conducted a massive ballistic missile exercise early on Wednesday in what officials in Seoul said was a warning to Pyongyang. Forces from both countries fired a barrage of missiles, according to the joint chiefs of staff in Seoul.

The live-fire exercise was ordered by the South Korean president, Moon Jae-in, who said it would demonstrate the allies’ determination to counter North Korean provocations with deeds and not just words of condemnation, South Korea media reported.

'Nothing better to do?': Trump mocks Kim Jong-un's latest missile launch

“President Moon said North Korea’s serious provocation required us to react with more than just a statement and that we need to clearly show our missile defence readiness to North Korea,” the presidential Blue House said in a statement carried by Yonhap news agency.

North Korea’s Academy of Defence Science said the missile reached an altitude of 2,802km (1,741 miles) and flew 933km. US Pacific Command confirmed the test and said it was a land-based, intermediate-range missile that flew for 37 minutes before splashing down in the Sea of Japan. It said the launch did not pose a threat to North America.

North Koreans, meanwhile, celebrated the ICBM launch in the capital Pyongyang.

Soon after Tuesday’s announcement that it had launched an ICBM a 38-year-old Pyongyang resident named Ri Song-gil said his country “can attack anywhere in the world”. He added: “Now, the time when the US could threaten the world with nuclear weapons has passed away.”

Kim Hye-ok, 27, said the launch was “extremely delightful news”, adding that North Korea “will march forward along our own way” despite international sanctions.

Questions remain about whether the North can miniaturise a nuclear weapon to fit a missile nosecone, or if it has mastered the technology needed for it to survive re-entry into the Earth’s atmosphere. KCNA said Tuesday’s launch had verified “all the technological requirements including heat resistance and structural stability of the re-entry nosecone”, which it said was made of carbon composite.

“Under harsh conditions involving thousands of degrees of heat, pressure and tremors, the temperature inside the nose cone was stable between 25-45 degrees Celsius,” it said, adding the warhead “flew flawlessly and struck the target precisely”.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Philip » 05 Jul 2017 13:55

NoKo claiming to have fired an ICBM has raised the stakes considerably.Mil strikes against the north will provoke a massive retaliation against SoKo and will inevitably escalate and expand to Japan. Casualties as the report says will be massive. Trump's Syrian style sole limited strike will be exceptionally risky as there's no predicting how NoKo will respond,which might be many times in magnitude.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/don ... 23076.html
If Trump wants to avoid a missile crisis, he may have to invite Kim Jong-un to the White House
Pyongyang’s key aim has always been to have direct bilateral talks with the US, something that successive administrations in Washington have steadfastly refused

Kim Sengupta
North Korea announced a successful intercontinental missile launch AP
Five months ago Donald Trump tweeted that North Korea would never be allowed to possess a nuclear weapon capable of hitting the US. This morning, Pyongyang launched what it claimed was its first ever intercontinental ballistic missile. The state TV channel declared that Kim Jong-un now ruled over “a strong nuclear armed state with a very powerful ICBM which can strike anywhere in the world”.

Taking away the customary hyperbole, what we saw, say international analysts, was a missile reaching an altitude of 1,741 miles and flying 580 miles before crashing into the sea. This would have reached Alaska, but no other part of the continental US. It could, however, also hit American military bases and forces in a wide arc in the Pacific.

Looking at the pace of development and pattern of the tests, one can conclude that North Korea would be able to produce a missile with a longer range in the not too distant future. It remains unclear whether Pyongyang can mount a nuclear warhead on the missile. But US officials acknowledge that this too is likely to happen. Lt Gen Vincent Stewart told a Senate Committee recently: “The regime is committed and is on a pathway where this capability is inevitable.” The only hurdle left, he continued, was perfecting re-entry of the ballistic missile into the atmosphere. But he continued: “They understand the physics, so it’s just a matter of design.”

The question is what can the US and the international community do to stop Kim Jong-un acquiring a nuclear arsenal with ICBMs? The answer is that options are quite limited. There has been some tough talk from Washington about carrying out military strikes. But that is a highly risky path. Targets would not be easy to track down and hit while retaliation would put the South Korean capital, Seoul, nor far from the border, directly in the firing line. The numbers of casualties are likely to be massive.

Gen James Mattis, the US Defence Secretary, has warned: “If this goes to a military solution, it is going to be tragic on an unbelievable scale. So our effort is to work with the UN, work with China, work with Japan, work with South Korea to find a way out of the situation.”

There was little of his usual bombast in Trump’s tweet following the latest missile test. There was no threat of American action against Kim Jong-un or his regime. Instead the President was seemingly leaving it to others to deal with the crisis. “North Korea has just launched another missile. Does this guy have anything better to do with his life? Hard to believe that South Korea and Japan will put up with this much longer. Perhaps China will put a heavy move on North Korea and end this nonsense once and for all!!.”

South Korea is emerging from a period of political upheaval and the new President, Moon Jae-in, favours a diplomatic solution. He has asked the UN Security Council to take steps against Pyongyang, but is unlikely to go further than that. Punitive economic measures, however, has proved relatively ineffective against a regime that is prepared to let its people suffer privation in return for achieving its nuclear ambitions.

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has long voiced his concern about North Korea. He said “repeated provocations like this are absolutely unacceptable” and that his country would “unite strongly” with the US and South Korea to put pressure on Pyongyang, without specifying what these pressures would be.

North Korea claims to fire first intercontinental ballistic missile
China, as North Korea’s main trading partner, is supposed to have influence over Pyongyang. But for all the talk of Chinese “heavy move” in his tweet, Trump has been increasingly critical over what he sees as Beijing’s inaction on the matter. Today China’s ambassador to the UN warned of “ disastrous” consequences if there is a failure to ease tensions with North Korea. “We cannot afford to wait for too long without dialogue taking place” said Liu Jieyi.

The North Korea problem will feature prominently at the G20 summit in Hamburg at the end of the week. But Pyongyang’s key aim has always been to have direct bilateral talks with the US, something that successive administrations in Washington have steadfastly refused as it would show that Pyongyang has won by playing hardball.

During his presidential election campaign Trump had stated that he would be prepared to receive Kim Jong-un in Washington and “have hamburgers with him ... What the hell is wrong with speaking? And you know what? It’s called opening a dialogue.”


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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Philip » 07 Jul 2017 11:51

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ikki-haley
Trump says US mulling 'very severe' response to North Korea missile test
US president says he is determined to confront threat from Pyongyang, after his ambassador to UN raises prospect of military action if diplomacy
Trump: there will be consequences for North Korea’s ‘very, very bad behaviour’

Emma Graham-Harrison in London, Patrick Wintour in Hamburg and Sabrina Siddiqui in Washington
Thursday 6 July 2017 21.50 BST First published on Thursday 6 July 2017 08.41 BST
Donald Trump has said he is considering some “very severe things” in response to North Korea’s successful test of an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) this week, as he called on other nations to exert pressure on Pyongyang over its “very bad behaviour”.

Trump said the US would confront the North Korean threat, but noted that he would not draw a red line. “I don’t like to talk about what I have planned, but I have some pretty severe things that we’re thinking about,” he said. “That doesn’t mean we’re going to do them.”

The president’s comments, made in Poland, came after the US ambassador to the UN made a push for new sanctions at a security council meeting and said America’s “considerable military forces” could be used against North Korea.

Nikki Haley told the meeting the US would submit a draft resolution within days “that raises the international response in a way that is proportionate to North Korea’s escalation”, but warned Washington had options if diplomacy failed.

Analysis North Korea: US and allies face shortage of good options over missile threat
Pyongyang’s latest missile test has revived calls to ‘deal with’ Kim Jong-un. But all possible strategies carry huge risks

“The United States is prepared to use the full range of our capabilities to defend ourselves and our allies,” Haley told the United Nations security council on Wednesday. “One of our capabilities lies with our considerable military forces. We will use them, if we must, but we prefer not to have to go in that direction.”

She said the US was eyeing penalties against “any country that does business with this outlaw regime”.

On Thursday Russia blocked a security council statement condemning the launch, because it disputed the description of the rocket as an intercontinental ballistic missile and said the weapon may have been a medium-range missile.

Haley retorted that the UN secretary-general, Antonio Guterres, the United States and North Korea all described the weapon as an ICBM, adding that if Russia needed intelligence to prove it, “I’m happy to provide it.”

Donald Trump with Xi Jinping. The US president has attacked China over its trade ties with North Korea. Photograph: Alex Brandon/AP
South Korea’s president, Moon Jae In, and his Chinese counterpart, Xi Jinping, moved to head off any immediate American military response when they met in Hamburg ahead of the G20 summit.
e
After a 75-minute meeting, the two leaders emphasised the need for the G20 to show a united response to the crisis, and described North Korea’s test-launch as “unforgivable” and agreed to impose tougher sanctions on Pyongyang.

But in meetings with Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, Moon warned against a military response, saying: “Amid high tensions like this a single accident could bring about a dangerous situation. So both increasing the pressure and managing the situation are required.”

The Chinese finance minister, Zhu Guangyao, said Beijing would implement all sanctions agreed by the UN, but urged the US not to use its domestic laws to find a backdoor route to imposing sanctions on Chinese financial institutions.

Moon, a liberal recently elected on a ticket backing dialogue with the North said in a speech in Berlin “now is the last chance, and also the best, for North Korea to make the right choice”.

He presented his five-point policy towards the North, including a commitment to peace, and a “denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula in a way that guarantees the security of the North Korean regime.”

He also offered humanitarian aid to the North Korean people and meetings between family members who have been separated since the Korean war.

He said: “We do not wish for the collapse of North Korea and we will not pursue any form of unification by absorbing the other. We will not pursue unification by force.”

Trump is scheduled to meet Xi on the sidelines of the G20 summit in Hamburg, where he will travel from Poland later on Thursday.
Trump and Vladimir Putin are also expected to address growing North Korean provocations at their meeting on Friday.

Analysis Donald Trump's romance with China's Xi has cooled, 'ass-kicking' could lie ahead
The idea of a ‘big marriage’ to tackle issues such as North Korea is dead and what might come from their G20 meeting is unknown, but it will be tense

China has already called for restraint from all sides, after joining diplomatic forces with Russia to suggest that North Korea suspend its missile programme in return for a moratorium on large-scale US and South Korean military exercises.

China is pushing for talks between world powers and North Korea on dismantling its nuclear programme but the US maintains that Pyongyang must first halt its missile and nuclear tests.

Theresa May also condemned North Korea’s actions and called for China to exert more pressure on its neighbour. The UK prime minister, who will have the opportunity to raise the issue with Xi on Friday evening at the G20 summit, added that Britain would support sanctions on Pyongyang.

“What I think needs to happen is first of all we absolutely condemn the action that North Korea has taken. What we need to see is a China who can exercise influence on North Korea playing a greater role in doing that,” May told reporters as her plane landed in Germany on Thursday. “If there are proposals to tighten sanctions and extend sanctions we will do that.”

Kim delivered his own message on Wednesday, with the state Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) quoting him as saying: “American ******** would be not very happy with this gift sent on the July 4 anniversary.”

The news agency claimed the North Korean missile was capable of carrying a “large, heavy nuclear warhead” that could survive re-entry into the earth’s atmosphere.

Kim Jong-un celebrates with military officials after missile launch. Photograph: KCNA/Reuters
Kim was quoted as saying the North’s long confrontation with Washington had entered the “final stage” and that Pyongyang would not put its nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles up for negotiation “unless the US hostile policy and nuclear threats come to an end completely”.

A report in its state media said Kim urged his scientists to “frequently send big and small ‘gift packages’ to the Yankees”.

Questions remain about whether the North can miniaturise a nuclear weapon to fit a missile nosecone, or if it has mastered the technology needed for it to survive re-entry into the earth’s atmosphere.

Some experts believe the North already has the ability to mount warheads on shorter-range missiles that can strike South Korea and Japan, home to dozens of US military bases and about 80,000 US troops.

Additional reporting Anushka Asthana

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Austin » 22 Jul 2017 12:50

N. Korea Policy Recommendations Made by Russia, China Only Way to Avoid Disaster

https://sputniknews.com/politics/201707 ... -disaster/
MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Policy recommendations proposed by Russia and China to ease tensions on the Korean Peninsula, including mutual concessions on the side of North Korea, South Korea and the United States, will certainly take time to implement but seem to be the only way to avoid disastrous consequences that may occur, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said on Friday.

"Therefore, parallel with continued pressure on North Korea, not instead but parallel with the continued pressure on North Korea, Russia and China proposed a parallel political track… North Korea suspends all launches and all tests and in response the US and South Korea do not cancel but reduce the scale of their war games in that region which we believe could help to defuse the situation and allow for some professional discussions to build up confidence starting by very simple things, you know, adopting a statement that no one is going to attack each other. The security of each of the participants of this process would be mutually guaranteed," Lavrov told the NBC network.


The Russian foreign minister stressed that it would take time to implement this strategy but it is "the only way to save us from a disaster which is looming."

On Thursday, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Igor Morgulov and Chinese Assistant Minister of Foreign Affairs Kong Xuanyou discussed possible ways to reduce tensions on the Korean peninsula and agreed to continue coordination at all levels and work on improving the situation.

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India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Peregrine » 26 Jul 2017 01:36

China 'bolsters defences' on border with North Korea

China is thought to have begun strengthening its defences along its border with North Korea in preparation for a potential US missile strike.

Beijing is preparing for a crisis in the country, with which it shares a 880-mile border, and has been moving forces from surrounding regions to the frontier.

The move comes after the US stepped up rhetoric against the North Korean regime, which has ambitions of creating nuclear weapons.

Earlier in the month, Pyongyang carried out its first test of an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM), which it said was capable of reaching “anywhere in the world”.

The US secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, described the successful test as “a new escalation of the threat to the United States, our allies and partners, the region and the world”.

According to the Wall Street Journal, Chinese measures include the establishment of a new border defence brigade and 24-hour video surveillance of the board backed by drones.

Bunkers to protect against nuclear and chemical strikes have also been installed.

China said its forces “maintain a normal state of combat readiness and training” on the border, but experts suggest troops have been mobilised in preparation nearby.

A spokesman said: “Military means shouldn’t be an option to solve the Korean Peninsula issue.”

However, China has been strengthening its defences along the border since Pyongyang’s first nuclear test in 2006. This includes building a fence along parts of the border and stepping up patrols.

It is reportedly preparing for a crisis in the country, which could result in millions fleeing to China. This includes the possibility of economic collapse or a US missile strike.

Donald Trump, who established an unusually cordial relationship with China in the early days of his premiership, has since pressured the country to be firmer with North Korea.

MORE: North Korea warns Donald Trump it will soon be able to destroy New York with nuclear missiles
MORE: Would Donald Trump actually attack North Korea?

In April, after meeting Chinese president Xi Jinping at the Mar-a-Lago resort, Trump hailed the “tremendous progress” made between the two countries.

However, the US has since imposed sanctions on a Chinese bank for doing business with North Korea, and reinstated an arms deals with Taiwan, which is likely to have angered Beijing.

After the missile test earlier in the month, North Korea’s Kim Jong-Un publicly mocked the US calling the launch a “gift” for Independence Day.

Shortly after, China urged calm from both from sides, warning that rhetoric could lead to war.

“We also call on relevant parties to stay calm, exercise restraint, refrain from words and deeds that may heighten tensions, and jointly make effort for the easing of tensions,” foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang told reporters.

This week, a top US army chief warned that war between the United States and North Korea would be “unlike any we have experienced”.

Joseph Dunford, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said: “Many people have talked about military options with words like ‘unimaginable.’

“I would shift that slightly to ‘horrific’. It would be a loss of life unlike any we have experienced in our lifetimes and I mean anyone who’s been alive since World War II has never seen the loss of life that could occur if there’s a conflict on the Korean Peninsula.”

Cheers Image

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ramana » 26 Jul 2017 02:46

I said in some thread NoKo ICBM test is a redline. It is Trump's Cuban Missile Crisis.

With ICBM, the NoKo can threaten US from their own country.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby A_Gupta » 10 Aug 2017 06:36

IMO, this is a good article. Emphasis added.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/why ... o-remember

In almost every discussion of the North Korea situation, I try to remind everyone that North Korea made its nuclear break out under George W. Bush – not under Bill Clinton and not under Barack Obama. A key part of that backstory is that over the course of the late 90s the US negotiated a series of agreements called the Agreed Framework which shuttered the North Koreans nuclear weapons program in exchange for a combination of commitments and aid. The Bush team argued that the agreement was ‘appeasement’ and that the US had caught the North Koreans cheating on the agreement during Bush’s first term. The cheating argument has always struck me as questionable – quite possibly true but questionable. But the bigger issue is this: Does any of this really matter today as more than affixing blame for a situation we have to grapple with today whoever is at fault? I would argue that it very much does. Here’s why.

It is important to have an accurate record of what happened in the recent past just on general principles. But understanding what happened in this case is quite important as a guide for future action both in the current Korea situation and with Iran and the nuclear agreements President Trump is trying to abrogate.

As I said above, I think the argument that the North Koreans were cheating on the Agreed Framework is questionable. The path the US was concerned about and which the Agreed Framework dealt with was a plutonium path to nuclear weapons. The cheating was allegedly about a uranium path. The North Koreans argued that the US hadn’t fulfilled key elements of the deal (with some reason). They denied cheating. Whether they were or not, I’m not really clear on. I’m not sure more informed people really know for certain either. What is clear though is that the Bush administration didn’t like the Agreed Framework and were looking for a reason to get out of it. The cheating allegation – which definitely may have been true – turned out to be that reason.

But the real reason wasn’t the cheating. It was the pretext. The Bush team didn’t like the concept of the deal itself. Giving things to the North Koreans to get them to do things we wanted was rewarding misbehavior, ‘appeasement’. The proper way to handle such a situation was to get them to fall in line by the threat of US power, which is to say US military power. This isn’t a crazy viewpoint. The North Koreans have used menacing or destabilizing actions to extract aid from great powers. In principle you should avoid rewarding ‘bad behavior’. Indeed, it was an unlovely arrangement. But even if there was some cheating in the background, the agreement demonstrably shuttered or at least stymied North Korea’s weapons development for years.

The simple reality was that the Bush team didn’t like the deal but had nothing to replace it with. The threat of force wasn’t credible because of the costs of a military confrontation which the North Koreans were well aware of. So the US got to act tough (or rather feel tough) and not go in for ‘appeasement’ and the result was that North Korea became a nuclear power. Might they have become a nuclear power anyway? Maybe. But it seems very hard to argue that they would have gotten there as quickly as they did or would even be there today if the US had continued with the quite minor amounts of aid the Agreed Framework required. He didn’t argue this specifically. But last night TPM Reader ML raised the possibility that our actions really don’t matter here at all, that North Korea’s behavior is driven by internal factors. This may certainly be true. But in that case we have no impact or influence regardless. (We tend to focus on North Korea’s ‘craziness’ but I think you can argue that their drive for nuclear weapons is highly logical.)

The real lesson I draw from this is that we should be extremely wary about actions which have the feeling or appearance of toughness but which are likely to have negative or even dire results because we have no viable, alternative policy. That seems very much like the situation we are moving toward with North Korea. Certainly it’s what President Trump was doing yesterday when he made wild threats he is highly, highly unlikely to follow through on. (Is President Trump really going to launch an all out nuclear attack on North Korea with all the horror, death and destruction in both Koreas, nuclear fall out in nearby states in retaliation for more verbal threats? Please.)

No less important, I’m quite certain that it is almost exactly the situation and folly that President Trump and his nuttier advisors are moving toward with Iran. We allowed Iran to do this. We gave them this money. For all this, in the future they could go ahead and build a bomb anyway. We haven’t actually ‘solved’ the threat, just postponed it. There are good rejoinders to each of these arguments. But there are merits to them too. But what’s the alternative? I would argue that in practice we have no real military alternative which is better than what we have now. And yet, we look likely to repeat the same mistake: taking the ego boost of feeling tough at the price of accepting a negative or perhaps catastrophic results. Refusing negotiation isn’t tough if you’re not actually willing to take up the alternative. Indeed, it is the most regular and orthodox military doctrine that threats only act as deterrents if they are credible. On both fronts, this is a lesson very much worth learning.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2017 06:45


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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2017 07:17

I think if I were Naranja Bandar (and thankfully I am not!) I would just keep ratcheting up the counter-threat level until Dear Bigmouth actually threatened a strike - and then give the order to hit, citing Clear&Present Danger.

There is no good outcome for this mess, that does not involve drastic regime change. Any other strategy will leave NoKo fully nuclearized with an ICBM arsenal. No safety for neighbors.
And there is no regime change strategy that does not involve serious bloodshed and mess. The best the US can hope for in that, is a puppet dictator like Musharraf. That will eventually result in an even worse nuclear-armed NoKo (see Pakistan history).

So my orders would to go and provoke an over-the-top threat, and use that as excuse to hit IMMEDIATELY.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Philip » 10 Aug 2017 12:23

Just as they did with Pak, China is fundamentally responsible for NoKo's nuclear braggadocio.They deliberately built up this "rogue" N-state to give the US the upturned finger,switching off NoKo whenever they desired with the KIms,father and son,who well understood the gameplan. Dear Young Un appears to resent the overlordship of China in US-NoKo relations and is upping the ante.The Donald,who is enmeshed in a crisis of his own over the accusations of Russian help in winning the US pres. election,mat look at MoKo as an opportunity to inversely "wag the dog",diverting attention from his Russian hangover into a manageable spat with NoKo.but who knows where the spat could end up? The threat to Guam could be very real,perhaps also a diversion with another surprise attack on Pearl actually planned! In this rapidly accelerating crisis,the end-loser is certainly XI Gins,who's losing face over his impotence in resolving the crisis.China's best option is to gift NoKo a large consignment of "dimsum",with the compliments of XI Gins.The sanctions on NoKo are biting hard and alleviating Young Un's pain this way could be the last hope before the fireworks party begins.
As one analysts said,NoKo has such large number of arty. pieces with unstoppable projectiles,that it doesn't need missiles to flatten Seoul!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 85386.html
North Korea outlines Guam strike plan and describes Trump’s warning as ‘load of nonsense’
Rockets would be fired directly over Japan towards Guam, North Korean state media says


Harry Cockburn
A missile that analysts believe could be the North Korean Hwasong-12 is paraded across Kim Il Sung Square in Pyongyang. AP
North Korea has dismissed Donald Trump’s warning of “fire and fury” if it threatened the United States as a “load of nonsense”, and outlined plans to launch four missiles towards the US territory of Guam.

As the war of words between Pyongyang and Washington intensifies, North Korea’s state run news agency KCNA said the preparations for the strike could be ready in days.
The report said Hwasong-12 rockets would be fired directly over Japan and would land in the sea roughly 30km (17 miles from Guam).

READ MORE
North Korea brands Donald Trump 'bereft of reason' over threats
Mattis issues warning to North Korea
Could North Korea go to nuclear war with the US?
Trump needs to approach North Korea with caution

The plan is yet to be officially approved by Kim Jong Un, but according to General Kim Rak Gyom, commander of the Strategic Force of the Korean People's Army, the plans will be complete by “mid- August”, KCNA reports.

Tensions between the two countries have reached a nadir after the US discovered North Korea’s nuclear missile technology had advanced faster than anticipated.

The news prompted Mr Trump to warn on Tuesday that any further action by the country would be met by “fire and fury and frankly, power, the likes of which the world has never seen before”.

On Wednesday, North Korea said it had the island territory of Guam in its sights and branded Trump “bereft of reason”.

“Sound dialogue is not possible with such a guy bereft of reason and only absolute force can work on him,” a report by the North's state-run KCNA news agency said of Mr Trump.

Guam is home to about 163,000 people and a US military base that includes a submarine squadron, an air base and a Coast Guard group.

However, Masao Okonogi, professor emeritus at Japan's Keio University, told Reuters the North Korean reports suggested Pyongyang was issuing a warning or advance notice of changes to its missile testing programme rather than threatening an attack.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 11 Aug 2017 06:23

What would happen if the US were to actually launch a (conventional) missile that landed smack center in the courtyard of Big Mouth's Palace? No warhead, just a parachuted payload of Xmas toys.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ArjunPandit » 11 Aug 2017 06:30

Just curious, Russia, China had ICBMs/Nooks for decades that too on Nuclear subs, which are less detectable and packed bigger punch than puny fart mouth. Why is poor KiJU the ultimate cool dude flogged for this. Not that Chinese or Russians were more humane than this poor kid who lost his father and came to save his oppressed country? Where are the National Peace Ayatollahs? or are they only there for China/Pak/Saudis and of course israel

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ramana » 11 Aug 2017 06:34

Because he is making clear threats and following with missile tests.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby shiv » 11 Aug 2017 07:16

How about this for a scenario.

NoKo's dear leader sees that China is busy with border issues in the west and trying to dominate the ocean. He now feels that China can control him no longer and is making open threats. We have often discussed the problem of irrational people with nuclear weapons versus rational people. Dear Leader may be "irrational". (As an aside this rational irrational stuff is a load of horse manure because it was irrational to pass on nukes to Korea anyway)

But NoKo is playing a dangerous game and as far as I can tell he understands the US perfectly - or has advisors who do. The US has attacked small countries for much more minor reasons, like Libya and Iraq but has never touched a nucleal armed state. The US will not attack NoKo unless NoKo actually nukes the US. But once the US starts wrestling with the idea of having to nuke NoKo they will become louder and louder but do less and less. They may ultimately ditch South Korea.

My opinion. Of course remember that opinions are like assh. er noses. Everybody has one

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Atmavik » 11 Aug 2017 07:23

shiv wrote:How about this for a scenario.

NoKo's dear leader sees that China is busy with border issues in the west and trying to dominate the ocean. He now feels that China can control him no longer and is making open threats. We have often discussed the problem of irrational people with nuclear weapons versus rational people. Dear Leader may be "irrational". (As an aside this rational irrational stuff is a load of horse manure because it was irrational to pass on nukes to Korea anyway)

But NoKo is playing a dangerous game and as far as I can tell he understands the US perfectly - or has advisors who do. The US has attacked small countries for much more minor reasons, like Libya and Iraq but has never touched a nucleal armed state. The US will not attack NoKo unless NoKo actually nukes the US. But once the US starts wrestling with the idea of having to nuke NoKo they will become louder and louder but do less and less. They may ultimately ditch South Korea.

My opinion. Of course remember that opinions are like assh. er noses. Everybody has one



more worrying than this irrational leader with nooks is a death cult having them. some pissfull might just press the button in desire to meet his 72

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby shiv » 11 Aug 2017 07:39

Atmavik wrote:more worrying than this irrational leader with nooks is a death cult having them. some pissfull might just press the button in desire to meet his 72

From the North Korean viewpoint - American nukes are the biggest threat. Only for us - enmeshed in the maya of "freedom and democracy" America seems to be a safe bet. But why should it be for NoKo? A soosai leadel in NoKo can go down in history by launching nukes at the US. Then what will the US do? This is a good time to speak through the mouths of a dozen or more rahrah America types who have passed through the portals of BRF over the years.

I would expect them to say "Oh the US will pulverize NoKo. NoKo will become a glass parking lot. The US has not been the biggest power on earth for 50 years for nothin"

Usually the conversation ends here - but this is a good time to take it one step further.

OK NoKo nukes a US target. The US launches a vicious attack on NoKo taking out most available targets with conventional weaponry but using low yield nukes against hardened targets. NoKo will be finished. Then what? Let me speculate:

1. There will be some fallout and SoKo and China will be most affected
2. SoKo will no longer want any US forces on its soil in the long term. They will become occupying forces.
3. Other nations will note that nuclear war is still possible and that they have been dunces in imagining that the world can be safe with thousands of nukes in the hands of a few countries. Some nations will restart long closed nuclear programs
4. Pakistan, Iran and China may test (again). And after singing Ishwar Allah tere naam for some time - maybe India too will test again.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby shiv » 11 Aug 2017 07:42

Prem wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/heres-whats-going-chinese-troop-205712661.html
Here's what's going on with Chinese troop movements on North Korea's border

As tensions climb to historic highs between the US and its allies and North Korea, rumors of massive movements of Chinese troops near North Korea's border keep surfacing.A Pentagon official told Business Insider that the US had heard the reports but had "not seen anything to corroborate it."But Chinese troops are always stationed in the northeast near North Korea, and Yun Sun, a senior associate with the East Asia Program at the Stimson Center, told Business Insider that "Chinese troop movements happen often along that border" when North Korean nuclear and missile provocations seem imminent."When North Korea acts up with some sort of provocation, the Chinese in the past have moved their troops to reinforce their deployments in the northeast for military preparedness," Yun said."On the other hand," Yun said, "I think it does signal that the Chinese are concerned about a potential escalation, or even potential conflict" between the US and North Korea, as North Korea plans a nuclear test and the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier pulls up to Korea's coast.This footage purporting to show a massive movement of Chinese forces has surfaced online, further stoking the rumors:


I would believe this report.

If the US pulverizes NoKo they will then occupy it on humanitarian grounds and bring freedom and democracy. China will pour in troops and occupy NoKo itself.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Gagan » 11 Aug 2017 07:50

Ding dong has probably already crossed several red lines
The most severe of those is to challange the mardangi (manliness) of the US and then the POTUS.
Then he has publically threatened Continental US with N strike.

For that, he will be taken out, it is only a matter of time

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Gagan » 11 Aug 2017 07:52

If the US pulverizes NoKo, China will "invade" NoKo to "prevent Nukes from falling in the wrong hands"
China fears regime change, and will fear that any areas that the US liberates will reunite with SoKo

China will try to create a buffer state, N armed if possible, but definitely want to prevent Chinese maal (nukes) from falling onto USs hands

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby shiv » 11 Aug 2017 08:08

Gagan wrote:For that, he will be taken out, it is only a matter of time

The question is how?

It took a vely vely long time to get Saddam and Gadhafi. Weeks and weeks and weeks of conventional strikes and eventually ground forces. The US will have to take out NoKo nuclear capability first. Despite all the posturing the US will not do a first strike. But they may, on the sly, use Neuron bombs and later deny it. Other options are to claim that a NoKo nuke went off in NoKo by accident.

If the US does not get Deal Leadel soon and cannot stop his mijjile - he may launch one at the US - but for the US that will be a godsend.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby chanakyaa » 11 Aug 2017 08:11

Because he is making clear threats and following with missile tests.

One request. I've not followed NoKo drama (articles, videos) as closely. Can someone post an actual video footage of baby Kim verbally issuing threats? or pictures of mijjiles not looking doctored? I mean a heavy mijjile being fired from a middle of pasture or wooded area without a single marking of heavy trucks delivering mijjile to the area on ground appears to be totally fake images/videos. I mean if one can take picture/video of mijjile firing, there must be minutes of footage of some abdul delivering that heavy mijjile and tilting it upright, scientists and aam abdul clapping. If baby Kim, hate unkil so much, there must be lots of videos of him speaking in public/private about his hard feelings.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Guddu » 11 Aug 2017 08:39

As UlanB said, the strategy is to let Kim make the first mistake by sending his ICBM towards Guam. That could be used as an excuse to launch an attack on NK. At this stage, carrot top cannot accept any more nuclear capable missile tests, that would be a orange line that cannot be crossed.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Singha » 11 Aug 2017 09:28

shiv wrote: nukes against hardened targets. NoKo will be finished. Then what? Let me speculate:

1. There will be some fallout and SoKo and China will be most affected
2. SoKo will no longer want any US forces on its soil in the long term. They will become occupying forces.
3. Other nations will note that nuclear war is still possible and that they have been dunces in imagining that the world can be safe with thousands of nukes in the hands of a few countries. Some nations will restart long closed nuclear programs
4. Pakistan, Iran and China may test (again). And after singing Ishwar Allah tere naam for some time - maybe India too will test again.


it would be great benefit to India if the above happens. barring the regretable loss of lives ofcourse , but US needs to attack mil targets only not population centers to destroy the noko army and the Kim coterie.

civilian losses will likely be more in Soko for 3 days until all the Noko mountain cave artillery can be found and silenced. other than lobbing a few missiles noko is not exactly placed to take on the US.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby shiv » 11 Aug 2017 09:43

chanakyaa wrote: Can someone post an actual video footage of baby Kim verbally issuing threats?

How would you understand what he said if someone posted a video?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby abhik » 11 Aug 2017 09:52

I don't get why people make such a fuss about noko artillery targeting soko cities when they reportedly have as many as 60 nukes.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Karthik S » 11 Aug 2017 10:16

shiv wrote:OK NoKo nukes a US target. The US launches a vicious attack on NoKo taking out most available targets with conventional weaponry but using low yield nukes against hardened targets. NoKo will be finished. Then what? Let me speculate:

1. There will be some fallout and SoKo and China will be most affected
2. SoKo will no longer want any US forces on its soil in the long term. They will become occupying forces.
3. Other nations will note that nuclear war is still possible and that they have been dunces in imagining that the world can be safe with thousands of nukes in the hands of a few countries. Some nations will restart long closed nuclear programs
4. Pakistan, Iran and China may test (again). And after singing Ishwar Allah tere naam for some time - maybe India too will test again.


Another version:

1. Inevitable.
2. SoKo still will face Chinese threat, which is good enough for them to welcome US presence.
3. US, Israel (NoKo was in biz of supplying nuke tech to Syria, operation orchard) and other countries stop the nations developing nukes, one way or another.
4. I think pakis or eyeranians testing nukes is independent of what happens in NoKo. May be khan will realize the puppet it helped for decades is now becoming puppet of its rival, we don't know what will be their reaction to further nuke testing by the pakis.

Both the versions are very simplistic, in my view, will de-nuking NoKo will be good start to de-nuking other rouge state called pak. Even if other countries try to build their own nukes, we can fairly assume they'd have the assistance of either China or Pak. I don't think khan will overlook now.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Aug 2017 10:54

Quite Frankly, I dont think NOKO is developing Nukes and Missiles independent of PRC, Noko and Pakis are part of PRC foreign policy and both Nukes and Missiles to both are supplied by PRC. Thats why if SOKO deploys a Missile system PRC sanctions them. NOKO is like a non state actor for PRC to fix USA, Japan and Soko and a conduit for illegal supply of missiles and Nukes. Attacking Noko would mean attackign a very close ally of PRC thats why it has gotten away with things which Iran or Saddam would be bombed 100 times over.

Admitting this to the Western Public will be major loss of face for any Potus, taking on a heavily sanctioned Serbia or Iraq or Libya in the Desert in one thing but getting in a dirty hard fought war is something most of thier miltaries are not interested in unless it is going to be forced on them.

Thats the same reason they dont want to get involved with Pakistan and prefer to buy them off.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby sum » 11 Aug 2017 11:28

abhik wrote:I don't get why people make such a fuss about noko artillery targeting soko cities when they reportedly have as many as 60 nukes.

Maybe because the delivery mechanism of the nukes is still unknown/iffy but the destructive power of the massed artillery and the damage to Seoul is known ( in the few minutes/hours before they get sileneced)?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Marten » 11 Aug 2017 12:04

sum wrote:
abhik wrote:I don't get why people make such a fuss about noko artillery targeting soko cities when they reportedly have as many as 60 nukes.

Maybe because the delivery mechanism of the nukes is still unknown/iffy but the destructive power of the massed artillery and the damage to Seoul is known ( in the few minutes/hours before they get sileneced)?

Do we expect that the massed arty will survive the initial assault? I would expect the arty to be wiped out first and then have any further action on the "nukular" front.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby chanakyaa » 11 Aug 2017 17:56

shiv wrote:
chanakyaa wrote: Can someone post an actual video footage of baby Kim verbally issuing threats?

How would you understand what he said if someone posted a video?

In touch with one SoKo expat, who can translate. Statistically, need 2-3 more SoKo expats to ensure that all translations are close. So far, I've asked a bunch of waar aficionados to help me find some un-doctored evidence, and found nothing, nada. Excuses like NoKo regime is secretive is lame.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Philip » 11 Aug 2017 19:45

Hotheads in the Trump camp want him to act on threats even as he ratchets up the rhetoric.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ked-loaded
Donald Trump warns North Korea that US is ‘locked and loaded’
US president continues to escalate threats at North Korea over Twitter during ‘working vacation’ but no troops have been put on higher alert or redeployed

Julian Borger in Washington
Friday 11 August 2017 14.00 BST Last modified on Friday 11 August 2017 14.17 BST
Donald Trump kept up his brinksmanship on North Korea with a morning tweet that US military options were “locked and loaded” for use if Pyongyang “acted unwisely”.

US and South Korea to stage huge military exercise despite North Korea crisis
Read more
There was no change in US deployments in the region or a change in the alert status of US forces. Speaking to reporters earlier, the defence secretary, James Mattis, said a conflict on the Korean peninsula would be “catastrophic” and stressed that US diplomats should take the lead in resolving the crisis. Mattis pointed to a UN security council vote on the weekend for more sanctions on North Korea as a sign that diplomacy was making progress.

However, Trump sent out the new tweet at about 7.30am from his golf resort in Bedminster, New Jersey, that put the emphasis back on the use of force.

It continued a war of words between the president and North Korea that ignited on Tuesday when Trump, following reports of a breakthrough in Pyongyang’s weapons progamme, threatened to unleash “fire and fury like the world has never seen” on North Korea if the regime continued to threatened the US.

Kim Jong-un’s government responded the next day by deriding Trump’s remarks as a “lot of nonsense” and publishing detailed plans to launch missiles to land in the waters around the US Pacific territory of Guam.

Asked about the potential for military confrontation, Mattis told reporters it was his responsibility to have “military options should they be needed”.

But he warned: “The tragedy of war is well enough known; it doesn’t need another characterization, beyond the fact that it would be catastrophic.”

Alongside its missiles and nuclear warheads, the North Koreans have thousands of pieces of heavy artillery, capable of inflicting devastating damage on Seoul.

The US has about 35,000 troops stationed in South Korea – whose motto is “ready to fight tonight” – and 40,000 in Japan. They have not been put on a higher alert or redeployed in recent days despite the heated rhetoric.

Donald Trump loyalists eager to back up his rhetoric on North Korea
Read more
Malcolm Nance, a former naval intelligence officer, said that there had been none of the normal indicators of heightened alert at US bases in the region.

“We are not ready for even a small action size of Libya much less Korean War 2.0,” Nance said in a tweet. “This talk of Locked & Loaded is irresponsible madness.”

However, large-scale air, sea and land exercises are planned for later this month, which could ratchet tensions up further.

The North Korean military have said their planned missile test aimed for the sea around Guam will be ready for launch on orders of the country’s leader from mid-August.

In his remarks, however, Mattis repeatedly underlined the role of diplomacy and non-military pressure on Pyongyang, and the key roles played by the secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, and the US envoy to the United Nations, Nikki Haley.

“You can see the American effort is diplomatically led,” Mattis said. He added: “It has diplomatic traction. It is gaining diplomatic results. And I want to stay right there right now.”


PS:It is perhaps not coincidental that one country which could also be brought to bear upon NoKo is conspicuous by its absence,Russia. Why? The US has just imposed even more sanctions upon Russia leading to Russia finally expelling hundreds of US diplomats ,a delayed response after O'Bomber did so .At a time of crisis when the US and Russia could bring combined pressure to bear upon NoKo,a new cold war has started between the two.Is this timing deliberate? Are there vested interests in the US who genuinely want a conflict with NoKo now that there's nothing left in the MEast to fight for after the Russian (plus Syrian,Hiz,Iranian combine) rout of ISIS? Has the plan to go to war with NoKo been on the anvil for some time now? The Young Un appears to have fallen for the trap ,impetuous youth chafing at the bit shaking his rattle at hubris perhaps?

UlanBatori
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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 11 Aug 2017 21:03

chanakyaa wrote:
Can someone post an actual video footage of baby Kim verbally issuing threats? ...If baby Kim, hate unkil so much, there must be lots of videos of him speaking in public/private about his hard feelings.


This is a good question. There is a professor in Yoo Ess who said that the "threat to Guam" was actually a NoKo notification that their next missile test needed to be of greater range, and might fall in an area in the ocean in the general vicinity of Guam.

Given Syria experience, I think it is prudent to seek independent verification. Though in this case RT.com is not far from US mainstream media in describing the situation - and the Russians are very close to NoKo.


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