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India - South & North Korea Thread

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 12 Sep 2017 06:26

Russia-China win in UNSC

Although the resolution won backing from all 15 council members, the weakened penalties reflected the power of Russia and China. Both had objected to the original language calling for an oil embargo and other severe penalties — with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia declaring last week that such additional sanctions would be counterproductive and possibly destabilizing.


The United Nations Security Council unanimously adopted a US-drafted resolution to impose new sanctions on North Korea on Monday --- a move that comes just one week after the rogue nation carried out its sixth and largest nuclear test. The resolution is designed to accomplish six major goals: cap North Korea's oil imports, ban textile exports, end additional overseas laborer contracts, suppress smuggling efforts, stop joint ventures with other nations and sanction designated North Korean government entities, according to a US official familiar with negotiations.

"Today, we are saying the world will never accept a nuclear armed North Korea, and today the Security Council is saying that if the North Korean regime does not halt its nuclear program, we will act to stop it ourselves," US ambassador to the UN Nikki Haley said following the vote on Monday. :rotfl:
"We are done trying to prod the regime to do the right thing, we are now trying to stop it from having the ability to do the wrong thing," she added. "We are doing that by hitting North Korea's ability to fuel and fund its weapons program."

The US first circulated a draft resolution that called for a full ban on exports of oil to North Korea and an asset freeze on leader Kim Jong Un, the Worker's Party and the government of North Korea.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ramana » 12 Sep 2017 06:59

They were hoping for blockade and even embargo has been watered down.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 12 Sep 2017 07:21

Critical part is:
and today the Security Council is saying {translation: US is saying} that if the North Korean regime does not halt its nuclear program, we will act to stop it ourselves," US ambassador to the UN Nikki Haley said following the vote on Monday.


If I were Trump, this is exactly what I would have hoped the UNSC does: a completely toothless resolution. My hands might have been tied if they had actually voted for blockade, UN inspections etc. because those would not stop chinese exports to NoKo either. The Frog Ambassador talked for a long time but I couldn't listen. I thought he was arguing for tough steps.
Anyway, now it is a countdown to the first provocation, about 14 days from now (SoKo national holiday starts). NoKo ICBM might do it, but my bet is on a grave report on CNN News Flash of how a noko sub attacked a US carrier and a US destroyer caught it just in time and sank it.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 12 Sep 2017 16:41

North Korea takes to Bitcoin
By Alexander J Martin, Technology Reporter
North Korean hackers have been accused of the largest cyber heists the world has ever seen - and, as sanctions on the secretive state start to bite, Pyonyang's premiere hacking group has started stealing Bitcoin, too. The cryptocurrency is perfectly suited for dodging sanctions, despite the ferocious volatility in its value, as payments are processed in a distributed manner rather than through a central authority. New sanctions following North Korea's most recent nuclear test will hamper its ability to legitimately import gas and oil from China, but the nation retains an ability - and an increasing interest - in generating enormous revenues through cybercrime. Evidence suggests that a North Korean government bureau has been conducting illicit economic activity for quite some time. From 2015 through to 2016, a series of sophisticated cyber heists targeting the SWIFT global financial messaging service allowed a state-sponsored cybercrime collective, which researchers called the Lazarus Group, to steal millions of dollars. Cybersecurity researchers linked the Lazarus Group to North Korea, although it is not known whether it is part of the secretive government bureau Office 39, or a group hired by Pyonyang's elite to fill their own coffers.


North Korea tells UN they will make US 'suffer the greatest pain'
'The Washington regime... [is] obsessed with the wild game of reversing the DPRK's development of nuclear force which has already reached the completion phase'


UBCN reports that along with fissile fuel, rocket parts and high-strength peanut-shaped containers, the orders also included 100 pairs of platform shoes marked "Eleven" made in Texas, USA.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 12 Sep 2017 16:52

Meanwhile from Comrade Putin:
Chinese and Russian negotiators have also managed to persuade the US delegation not to impose a travel ban or asset freeze on Kim Jong-un.

"We are done trying to prod the regime from doing the right thing,"said US UN Ambassador Nikki Haley. "We are now trying to stop it from having the ability to do the wrong thing."

Japan's UN mission called the latest resolution "an urgent call for North Korea to change its behavior."

The French UN mission described the new set of sanctions as an {reported by UBCN} "L'antidote [which will] pave le way for un solucion politicale" to the Korean peninsula crisis. He described it as "Le Plan Tres Brilliante, like Le Plan Brilliante de'Guerre Dien Bien Phu et de Plan du Ligne de Maginot".

Russia’s Ambassador to the United Nations Vassily Nebenzia told the Council that Moscow “doesn’t accept the North Korean ambition to gain the status of a nuclear power, (ha ha!) and has backed all the UNSC resolutions demanding a stop to Pyongyang’s missile and nuclear programs in the best interests of de-nuclearization of the Korean peninsula.“Subsequently, we have been supporting the sanctions imposed by the resolutions.” However, Russia doubts the sanctions' ability to hit the intended target, the Ambassador added, saying that “financial and economic measures of pressure on the DPRK leadership are almost exhausted, and further restrictions can amount to an attempt to strangle the country’s economy, impose a total blockade, and provoke a deep humanitarian crisis.
“In other words, this is not about blocking the channels for boosting the banned missile and nuclear activities, but about inflicting unacceptable harm on completely innocent civilian population.”
The “fact that the Russian-Chinese initiative was underestimated was a huge mistake,” Nebenzia stated, referring to the so-called “double-freeze” proposal. {Meaning US/SoKo de-escalation and surrender}
"We will continue to insist on its consideration by the UN Security Council,” he added.

So this is still about winning the Korean War. Reunification by capture/surrender of SoKo. They will simply add the threat of hydrogen bombs to the already politician-paralyzing threat of artillery. If you need explanation, RT.com provides it:
Together with Beijing, Moscow has long proposed a double-freeze plan, in which Pyongyang suspends its nuclear and ballistic missile tests in exchange for a halt in joint US-South Korea military drills. Washington has rejected the proposal, saying that it has every right to conduct exercises with its ally, South Korea.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 12 Sep 2017 17:51

Important lessons for India - on what must have happened in 1948, 62, 65, 71, 99. The UN don't do diddly that's useful in solving problems that eventually have to be solved by war. Not even when the SuperPowers demand it.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Sep 2017 02:52

Trump noted the 15-0 UN vote during a meetingwith Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak, but said they are "just another very small step, not a big deal" and suggested that he doesn't know "if it has any impact."
Trump added that the sanctions pale in comparison to "what ultimately will have to happen" to North Korea

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ramana » 13 Sep 2017 03:11

UlanBatori wrote:Important lessons for India - on what must have happened in 1948, 62, 65, 71, 99. The UN don't do diddly that's useful in solving problems that eventually have to be solved by war. Not even when the SuperPowers demand it.


After POK II tests, the biggest worry India had was that UN sanctions will be imposed on India.
One reason was Russia was in decline and the Yeltsin/Kozyrev duo had shown no spine. Primakov was the new Russian Foreign Minister.

Vajpayee sent two diplomatic missions: Brajesh Mishra to UK, FRANC and Russia and Jaswant SIngh to US.

Meanwhile L.K. Advani at his finest hour scared the Pakistan into testing so that India was not the last country to test at that time.

And Vajpayee declared testing moratorium to assure the tests are limited.

There were no UN sanctions and only country sanctions which got removed individually.

The NPA went on overdrive disputing India's tests.

Now look at NoKo they make big Richter mB signature and NPA shut up.
China and Russia UN P5 sanctions get diluted away.

Small is not beautiful except in bonsai gardens.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby shiv » 13 Sep 2017 07:34

Ironically - all those disputes about India's tests have now moved on to claiming that India's nuclear arsenal is smaller than Pakistan.

Why would any entity try and make the Indian threat smaller? I think some Indians believe that this is "demeaning and belittling and shaming India. Making India lose face"

But the positive side is that India is not seen as a threat to stability or peace. It is another matter that no one in Pakistan is dismissing India's tests as insignificant. Not China either AFAIK. But the nations who have belittled India's tests are now ready to deal with India outside of all those 3 and 3 plus letter regimes. It is China that is holding out with NSG.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Sep 2017 07:36

Yes, i wonder whether the cat has got the NPAs' tongue. Nah! They'll probably blame NoKo tests on India not signing SeeTeeBeeTee and EnnPeeTee. India had no options. MT test in 1998 followed by 10 years of UN sanctions would have lost India a golden decade of advancement, to where India is today one of those nations that have "latent Thermonuke" or can buy it from someone who does. Can't complain. As for our EBs who keep tomtomming for MTs, I keep saying, the Age of ICBMs is over. Welcome to the age of precision hypersonics. A 0.25kT on a hypersonic can flatten a whole C^3 facility without wasting anything on collateral damage. No more can leaders hide in the center of 20 million ppl and yell "GENOCIDE" when it is only Pest-e-sha'eed. And what made that one hypersonic mijjile, can launch 100 more from different places and totally destroy a country while keeping most of it occupiable and enslaveable. This is modern deterrence.

ramana: here's classic NPAdom at its cretin-esque best:
Some experts hold out hope that Yun’s efforts will produce an opening for direct dialogue with the Kim regime that the Trump White House might take advantage of.
“The smart strategy is to keep pushing the sanctions ball forward with the [Russians and Chinese], but at the same time showing them we are serious about their interests, which is starting a dialogue,” said former nuclear negotiator Joel Wit. “It takes away their opportunity to blame us, and probably makes them willing to be more cooperative with us.”


You know, I have attended several talks by US State Dept. Korea Experts, back from Negotiations With North Korea and the 6-Party Talks in Beijing. Each of them seemed to be wearing a brand-new outfit, bought fresh off the rack at Sears, maybe rushing into the fitting room with the outfit, down to knickers. Took me a while to realize why:

When they came out of these Talks they had been "debriefed" as well as "de-shirted" and "de-trousered". :mrgreen:
Last edited by UlanBatori on 13 Sep 2017 07:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Sep 2017 07:43

Meanwhile the pussycats are mewing in DupleeCity.
“I believe the response from the United States and our allies should be supercharged,” said Representative Ed Royce, chairman of the House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee.
“We need to use every ounce of leverage ... to put maximum pressure on this rogue regime,” the Republican congressman told a hearing on North Korea. “Time is running out.”

of course it is - for his side.... only 13 days left. ER is one of the most sold-out COTUSppl there is, and that's really saying something. Paki-cheen bought, long ago.

Now for the real news:
State Department official quietly visits Moscow to discuss North Korea]SDOTUS official "quietly" vijits Moscow while all the tamasha is going on
top official (Joseph Yun) dealing with North Korea made a quiet trip to Moscow on Monday to urge Russia to support new United Nations sanctions on North Korea
. :rotfl:
I am pretty sure his mission was something else entirely. Potus to Putin. 4 ur ice onlee.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby shiv » 13 Sep 2017 08:29

Moscow Times.. reliability/affiliation not known to me
https://themoscowtimes.com/news/russia- ... orts-58914
themoscowtimes.com
North Korea Receiving Russian Supplies Despite Sanctions — Reports

Russian smugglers are illicitly supplying North Korea with contraband energy and goods, evading sanctions and ignoring concerns about the isolated Asian country’s nuclear tests, the Washington Post reported Monday.

“As the Chinese cut off oil and gas, we’re seeing [North Korea] turn to Russia,” the newspaper quoted an unnamed senior U.S. official with knowledge of alleged Russian smuggling into North Korea as saying on Monday.

Officials and experts reportedly noticed a sharp rise in supplies of Russian diesel and other fuels to North Korea starting in spring 2017.

The newspaper said a “dedicated ferry line” was launched between Russia’s Far East and North Korea to accommodate heavy traffic. The spike coincided with new UN sanctions and a ban on Chinese government fuel shipments in May, according to the Post.

The news comes as the UN Security Council ratified new sanctions against North Korea after its sixth nuclear test since 2006. The 15-member Council, including permanent members Russia and the U.S., unanimously passed the sanctions resolution on Monday banning textile exports and capping fuel imports.

The U.S. Justice Department and Treasury Department were reportedly motivated by Pyongyang’s increased trade with Moscow when it blacklisted four Russian citizens and one Russian company in August.

The Post cites U.S. court documents that describe a web of “front companies” formed by Russian citizens to specifically hide deals with North Korea.

A Treasury Department official points to China’s willingness to “increase the pressure” on North Korea and a lack of clarity on whether “the Russians are willing to go along with that,” the Post reported.

“Russia is now a player in this realm,” said Anthony Ruggiero, now a fellow with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies Washington think tank.



Moscow would be happy to do to the US what the US did to them in Afghanistan

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 14 Sep 2017 03:28


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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 14 Sep 2017 03:48

The funny thing is that the new Russian ferry was set up precisely to take CHINESE "tourists" to see NoKo people and gape at their poor cousins. China stopped supplying NOKO, indeed! :rotfl:

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 14 Sep 2017 20:47

COOL!
North Korea threatens to sink Japan and turn US to 'ashes and darkness' Tokyo condemns ‘absolutely unacceptable’ provocation, as Pyongyang reacts to imposition of new UN sanctions following missile tests.
...threatened to sink Japan and said the US should be “beaten to death like a rabid dog”
described the UN security council, which passed a new round of sanctions on Monday, as a “tool of evil” in the pay of Washington, and called for it to be broken up.
That has MY vote! :mrgreen:
“The four islands of the [Japanese] archipelago should be sunken into the sea by the nuclear bomb of Juche,... Japan is no longer needed to exist near us,” the committee said in a statement carried by the official KCNA news agency. Juche is the ideology of self-reliance pioneered by Kim Il-sung

“Let’s reduce the US mainland into ashes and darkness. Let’s vent our spite with mobilisation of all retaliation means which have been prepared till now,” it said.
Japan’s top government spokesman, Yoshihide Suga, kimono-shivered and described the statement as “extremely provocative and egregious... It is something that markedly heightens regional tension and is absolutely unacceptable.”

India relevance: Anyone else notice that these seem to be written by the same "dude" who wrote:
U can shake the Mountains, But u cannot shake the PLA!

And that all Indian soldiers would be killed?

Maybe Gobar Crimes' copywriting & multimedia division is based in Pyongyang.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ramana » 15 Sep 2017 03:00

Meanwhile US agencies confirmed the NoKo test yield was double previous estimates. Its now in the range of 250kt.

You can Google for it. Ok. One such report for the link nazis:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/north ... le/2634390

In a few months it will be admitted its close to 300 to 400 kt.

The ide is to make people gradually accept what it really is.


UB you tell me who 250 kt reconciles with SoKo measured 5.7 mB Richter scale while far way US readings were 6.3mB?
It doesn't because the SoKo reading was erroneous.

Being near by they should get the full reading as there is no attenuation.

And today South Korean President told CNN he was not going back from his NPT commitments.

This means he has decided its not his country problem.

Think this one through.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 15 Sep 2017 03:56

Sounds like it was 1MT (difference between 10^5.7 and 10^6.3 is quite a lot per my madarssa math, but that number causes panic, as if 999kT doesn't vaporize enough of a city. Irrelevant to SoKo, they are worried about artillery barrage or 2 small 1kT tactical nukes which are enough to decapitate them. So yes, problem is that in another 6 months we will see that 3 noKo subs are out in the Pacific and 2 in the Atlantic, carrying nice "gifts" with 1MT warheads, with "Seattle" or "DC or bust" or "MegaBosTon" written on them. Strategic Triad: Land-based artillery+"tactical" nukes, IRBMs to reach Guam and all Japan, and sub-based ICBMs to reach CONUS. 11 days left for Naranja Bandar to act.

So if the US allows that, what is the purpose of a 3-ocean Navy? To run into sandbanks and freighters? Make Friendly Visits to Singapore? Carry a bunch of Admirals around? US could save trillions by simply declaring unilateral disarmament except for the sub-based ICBMs in case there is an actual launch, rather than mere nuclear blackmail.

No wonder Putin is sending 100,000 bottles of vodka to the western border.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Skanda » 15 Sep 2017 05:15


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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ramana » 15 Sep 2017 06:14

If you see the geography NoKo missile has to go over Hokkaido Island to land in Sea of Japan.

This one is anther 2000 km range missile.
Last one was at 3200 km
So two good ones for statistics purposes.
One more he is at high confidence levels,

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 15 Sep 2017 06:57

There has been no response other than teeth-gnashing to the last 3 or 4 NoKo events. Either means total abject surrender - or the other extreme. I wonder.. I thought by now an ABM demo would have occurred, from all the mijjile cruisers that have not yet collided with anything, but its absence indicates (to me) that ABM capability is being reserved for the real event. Is the Pentagon in total disarray, or in total preparation?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 15 Sep 2017 07:08

It would be really funny if it wasn't so scary. The buggers can launch right over Japan (where else can they launch, hain?) but Japan, SoKo or US cannot return the favor: a missile launched across NoKo would land in Russia or China. Wonder if someone cares to launch over NoKo - into orbit. Nah! too much trouble for nothing. Much better to sink a submarine.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby chola » 15 Sep 2017 07:33

UlanBatori wrote:It would be really funny if it wasn't so scary. The buggers can launch right over Japan (where else can they launch, hain?) but Japan, SoKo or US cannot return the favor: a missile launched across NoKo would land in Russia or China. Wonder if someone cares to launch over NoKo - into orbit. Nah! too much trouble for nothing. Much better to sink a submarine.


Pretty hilarious if you ask me. lol

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ashish raval » 15 Sep 2017 10:17

I guess more sanctions including fuel we on its way. NoKo will not survive fuel sanctions and war will be inevitable after that. The only thing is how much they will survive if it is under fuel sanctions. Hardly 10 days without Chinese stepping in and I doubt Chinese would want to destroy Beijing or Shanghai at the cost of NoKo..no way and by now every possible artillery positions and factories will be in range of American cruise missiles who will be rained in thousands crippling everything NoKo has built up so far.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Karthik S » 15 Sep 2017 10:28

ashish raval wrote:I guess more sanctions including fuel we on its way. NoKo will not survive fuel sanctions and war will be inevitable after that. The only thing is how much they will survive if it is under fuel sanctions. Hardly 10 days without Chinese stepping in and I doubt Chinese would want to destroy Beijing or Shanghai at the cost of NoKo..no way and by now every possible artillery positions and factories will be in range of American cruise missiles who will be rained in thousands crippling everything NoKo has built up so far.


Who will destroy Shanghai and Beijing if China supplies fuel to NoKo ?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Austin » 15 Sep 2017 10:47

If NoKo gives up nuke it will end up like Libya or Iraq with million refugees pouring over to SoKo China and Russia . Better to fight with nuke and perish then be another Libya or give up nuke/missile.

Most likely more sanction wont come and China and Russia clearly stated they wont sanction beyond a point come what may.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby ashish raval » 15 Sep 2017 11:06

Karthik S wrote:
ashish raval wrote:I guess more sanctions including fuel we on its way. NoKo will not survive fuel sanctions and war will be inevitable after that. The only thing is how much they will survive if it is under fuel sanctions. Hardly 10 days without Chinese stepping in and I doubt Chinese would want to destroy Beijing or Shanghai at the cost of NoKo..no way and by now every possible artillery positions and factories will be in range of American cruise missiles who will be rained in thousands crippling everything NoKo has built up so far.


Who will destroy Shanghai and Beijing if China supplies fuel to NoKo ?


American congress will sanction any country supplying fuel to Noko. Billions of dollars worth Chinese export travelling in ocean would be worth nothing..Chinese stock market will collapse without Americans lifting a finger after fuel sanctions. Hundreds of companies would default and widespread chaos would ensue in China.

Would you think Chinese would want that and keep supplying fuel?

If Chinese don't accept sanctions against noko, all Chinese companies will be barred from doing business in US $ and their fuel supply will last till their dollar reserves. Chinese economy is highly dependent of US than India or Russia is.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Sep 2017 11:34

Well its a dangerous game being played, Clearly the Noko does not have the industrial capability, it is the Chinese who are behind thier TEL, Fuel systems and Missiles. How far do they want to go, can Noko on its jeopordize the Chinese position? Does China feel they are so embedded in the Global system that they can get away with anything, the next 6 months will show.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby kapilrdave » 15 Sep 2017 11:49

ramana wrote:Meanwhile US agencies confirmed the NoKo test yield was double previous estimates. Its now in the range of 250kt.

You can Google for it. Ok. One such report for the link nazis:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/north ... le/2634390

In a few months it will be admitted its close to 300 to 400 kt.

The ide is to make people gradually accept what it really is.


UB you tell me who 250 kt reconciles with SoKo measured 5.7 mB Richter scale while far way US readings were 6.3mB?
It doesn't because the SoKo reading was erroneous.

Being near by they should get the full reading as there is no attenuation.

And today South Korean President told CNN he was not going back from his NPT commitments.

This means he has decided its not his country problem.

Think this one through.

Yes. SoKo doesn't want nuclear trouble for themselves. Heck, they didn't want even THAAD. NoKo has played smart by convincing SoKo and the world that their nukes are meant only for US and probably for Japan if they side with US. So SoKo is relaxing. And Japan is wary. That's some deterrence! This strategy has Putin written all over it.

The problem is that SoKo/Japan thinks of US as their protector so obviousely it's the US who has to bleed for themselves. OTOH US thinks it's SoKo/Japan's problem so it should be them who bleeds! Ultimately the game is a non-starter.

The situation should be seen from Chess's perspective.

Here, US is the king, japan is the queen and SoKo is the pawn. King is placed very safe so it doesn't want to risk it's place. His queen and pawn are placed well but they are dead if they advance any further. So they are impotent at the moment. In the game of chess, kings don't do the real fight. They make others do the fighting. That's what the King of US hope to do as well.

OTOH

Russia is the king, china is the queen and noko is the pawn. Here also, the queen is impotent but placed well to hold the fort. The pawn is placed in a very advanced position near the US (not geographically but by intention) threatening the US king. This pawn - unlike all other players of this game - is ready to bleed. Even ready to sacrifice himself. That's his power. And that's what is the difference between the game of the two kings.

The game is placed heavily in favor of Russian king at the moment. His game is long term. The korean peninsula is just a side theater for him. Ultimately he wants the US king to remain the regional power of the American continent. First he will be removed from the pacific using the NoKo pawn. Then he will advance to the atlantic and europe. His ultimate dream is to gulp the europe when it falls and create an Akhand Russia.

Coming back to the korean theater, the Russian king desperately wants the war to happen. That's why he is advancing its pawn. Afterall, the king and even the queen has nothing to lose by this war, but only to gain. I'll stick my neck out and say, that there is very high degree of chance that NoKo will use heavy nukes on US (and also for Japan if it misadventures) disregarding its probability to reach to the target. Even russia or china might use them in the name of noko. That is because neither the russian king nor the chinese queen has anything to lose by doing it. All the US wrath will have to be dedicated for NoKo. They can't do anything with russia and china. Meanwhile, US might have to lose a few cities. In any case, the russian king wins hands down.

What are the options with US?

He has got no option but to start being aggressive on ground or to pack up and go home. As a first, he should declare openly that noko nukes are nothing but chinese nukes. And china has got the nukes from russia. He should start shouting this from the rooftop at every international summit. Just like Modi shouts about pak sponsored terror wherever he goes. The second step would be to declare that no matter who from the three 'rogue' countries throw nukes at US, the US's response would be generous for ALL THREE equally. And then they should hope that Russia and China are deterred.

Now you see why NoKo has done everything to convince the world and SoKo that their nukes are reserved for the US? This is brilliant strategy from Russia.
Last edited by kapilrdave on 15 Sep 2017 11:54, edited 2 times in total.

nandakumar
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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby nandakumar » 15 Sep 2017 11:52

Here is an extract of an article which says the latest U.N. Security Council resolution merely caps the crude oil imports at current level.

The Resolution does restrict the supply of refined oil and gas products to North Korea. However it seems that these are not being supplied to North Korea in any great quantity anyway since in accordance with its Juche policy North Korea does not import gas condensates in any significant quantity and itself refines most of the oil it imports. Moreover the complex wording of paragraph 14 makes it clear that North Korea can continue to import refined petroleum products for use by its civilian economy and that the export of refined petroleum products to North Korea is not entirely prohibited.
These provisions – of which US ambassador Nikki Haley made a great deal in her speech to the UN Security Council – are not intended to cause North Korea further economic damage. Rather they appear to be primarily intended to prevent North Korea from circumventing the cap imposed on its crude oil imports by increasing its import of refined oil and gas imports in their place. In addition there seems to be a secondary motive of limiting the import by North Korea of certain refined oil products (diesel oil in particular) which are used by its military.
As for the elaborate procedure outlined in Resolution 2375 for inspecting ships trading with North Korea, the reality – as everyone knows – is that the US navy has been stopping and searching North Korean ships and other ships trading with North Korea on the high seas for some time.
This is of course an entirely illegal practice, but the US has never shown any hesitation in acting in this way when it thinks it can.
Resolution 2375 not only implicitly forbids this practice by setting out a procedure which instead should be followed but by setting out such an elaborate procedure for inspecting ships trading with North Korea essentially precludes the US from stopping and searching Chinese ships, which are of course the main carriers of traded goods between North Korea and China.
Resolution 2375 also imposes a ban on North Korean textile exports. This is the major concession in the Resolution to the US, which has seized on North Korea’s textile exports as North Korea’s major foreign currency earner since prohibition of its coal exports earlier this year.
The key point about this provision is however that this is both a relatively minor trade (its annual value is put at around $700 million) whilst enforcement on its prohibition is all but impossible given the difficulty of tracing the origin of textile goods and the ease with which such goods move across the border between North Korea and China.
The underlying truth is that North Korea’s annual trade turnover in 2016 is calculated to have been no more than $3 billion. Even on the most pessimistic assessment of the size of the North Korean economy that figure is remarkably low, and points to the limited importance of foreign trade to North Korea. It is likely that the only product which North Korea needs to import in order to sustain its economy at its existing level is crude oil.
The true meaning of Resolution 2375 is that it shows that China is determined to continue supplying North Korea with crude oil at existing levels, and that it is not prepared to change its stance on this.
Chinese thinking on this issue has been set out clearly in a Global Times editorial published directly following the vote in the UN Security Council on Resolution 2375
http://theduran.com/north-korea-crisis- ... uff-again/

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Kashi » 15 Sep 2017 11:57

ashish raval wrote:American congress will sanction any country supplying fuel to Noko.


The smuggling of fuel into NoKo across the Yalu and Tumen rivers goes on unabated.

What will the omnipotent American Congress do about that?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Philip » 15 Sep 2017 13:38

We missed agolden opportunity to establish good relations with NoKo when DEar Leder "Kim the Second" was in power.His famous golf scores have never been beaten yet!
Anyway,had we even had a some sort of relationship with NoKo,and why does only China have to have good relations with it,while still dealing en masse with the US,etc.,etc.,this would've given us a great opportunity to behave as "peacemakers",cutting China down to size. If we simply abandon relationships with states who aren't the best pals of Uncle Sam,eventually we'll lose out when Uncle Sam does an about turn ,compromises and strikes deals with them!

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 15 Sep 2017 18:06

I'll stick my neck out and say, that there is very high degree of chance that NoKo will use heavy nukes on US (and also for Japan if it misadventures) disregarding its probability to reach to the target. Even russia or china might use them in the name of noko. That is because neither the russian king nor the chinese queen has anything to lose by doing it. All the US wrath will have to be dedicated for NoKo. They can't do anything with russia and china. Meanwhile, US might have to lose a few cities. In any case, the russian king wins hands down


That is precisely how it looks from the Yoo Ess. The US Queens (Mantri in Mallostani chaturangam parlance) and Elephants having been in a threatening position but history suggests that they are just Queens, not to be used.

But NOW, the NoKo is on the verge of getting a Mantri and soon will have several Mantris and Elephants - and the NoKo Mantri is one step from moving towards a direct checkmate. The risk is like 99% that Mantri WILL checkmate and attack.

So I would say that BOTH NoKo and US are reaching a Use It Or Lose It stage. The US a couple of cities AND all power/influence in East and probably south Asia - and by extension, Middle Wast. US can lord it over Central America with Monroe Doctrine. To paraphrase Bluce Splingsteen:

Everywhere, around the Whirled
They :rotfl: at ah-Murrica!


NoKo is racing flat-out to reach a credible "V Have It Ready".

The real unknown is whether NoKo's highly publicized and in-ur-face "Tests" are only to suggest that they are home-grown. What if the NoKo already **HAS*** 20 ICBMs with thermonukes loaded, courtesy of Comrade Eleven? This is the huge gamble that Naranja Bandar (NB) faces. Can US' collision-prone mijjile destroyers "take out" ALL of those launches? Are the Mid-Course Intercept killer satellites and the launch-on-demand ASAT mijjiles ready? How many THAADs can be active in Alaska and CONUS?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby UlanBatori » 15 Sep 2017 18:09

But one way or another, because of the above Calculus, NB faces having to explain his choice: "Live Free Or Die?"
If (a) he needs to give the orders unless as he says, he already has done so.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby vijaykarthik » 15 Sep 2017 18:43

Philip wrote:We missed agolden opportunity to establish good relations with NoKo when DEar Leder "Kim the Second" was in power.His famous golf scores have never been beaten yet!
Anyway,had we even had a some sort of relationship with NoKo,and why does only China have to have good relations with it,while still dealing en masse with the US,etc.,etc.,this would've given us a great opportunity to behave as "peacemakers",cutting China down to size. If we simply abandon relationships with states who aren't the best pals of Uncle Sam,eventually we'll lose out when Uncle Sam does an about turn ,compromises and strikes deals with them!


I would beg to differ. In the short run, it might look all great for China... but in the medium / long term, it will seem pretty clear that China has only guys like NK, Pakistan, a few poor African countries, Nicaragua etc as sweeter than honey and taller than mountains friend and there will be a pattern - all of the friends will have a dictator at the helm and almost all of them will have the universal opprobrium. Not a happy situation to be in and I think the situation is already falling apart.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Sep 2017 18:51

Kapilrdave-> this strategy does not have Putin writtenover it, you are overhyping Putin like Europeans and American Democrats. Russia does not have the population to do Akand Europe, they will be swallowed. It is the Chinese who are the force behind Noko , Russia will play with the Chinese since they have been smashed with even Ukraine made to hate them. The Russians have learnt the hard way, all thier peace overtures from the 1980's-90's just made the west break up thier ally in Yugoslavia, try to break them up in Chechenya, Georgia and go for thier jugular by making even Ukraine hate them. The Single mindedness of the US deep state against Russia and use an array of items against Hindus is mind blogging while at the same time twiddling thier thumbs and helping China, Pakis and Saudis is most surprising.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby vijaykarthik » 15 Sep 2017 19:33

^^ isn't that their (the west's)balance of power strategy. it has its limits and its showing up lately.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby chola » 15 Sep 2017 20:12

Someone blow something up, please! So sick and tired of these almost war situations being jawboned and going nowhere for the past four months. I want to see fireworks!

It would be hilarious if Cheen is forced to attack NoKo until the threat of US economic sanctions not on Fat Boy Kim but on Eleven!!!

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Karthik S » 15 Sep 2017 20:20

chola wrote:Someone blow something up, please! So sick and tired of these almost war situations being jawboned and going nowhere for the past four months. I want to see fireworks!

It would be hilarious if Cheen is forced to attack NoKo until the threat of US economic sanctions not on Fat Boy Kim but on Eleven!!!


:rotfl: started again?

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby kapilrdave » 15 Sep 2017 20:31

UlanBatori wrote:
The real unknown is whether NoKo's highly publicized and in-ur-face "Tests" are only to suggest that they are home-grown. What if the NoKo already **HAS*** 20 ICBMs with thermonukes loaded, courtesy of Comrade Eleven? This is the huge gamble that Naranja Bandar (NB) faces. Can US' collision-prone mijjile destroyers "take out" ALL of those launches? Are the Mid-Course Intercept killer satellites and the launch-on-demand ASAT mijjiles ready? How many THAADs can be active in Alaska and CONUS?

It is funny isn't it? US with hundreds of most credible nukes, with most credible missile defense system, being the ONLY country to have used nukes is deterred by a diddly dumb eff who has supposedly just tested a nuke who is completely undeterred by bullies.

This proves that all deterrence theories are just BS. What matters is a properly planned strategy to deal with the given enemy. What matters is the will. Not the weapons. Ways and means to defeat the enemy can be found if the will is there.

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Re: India - South & North Korea Thread

Postby Philip » 15 Sep 2017 20:59

AFter sorting out the Syrian crisis and defanging ISIS,the world is now looking at Putin to resolve the NoKo missile/bomb crisis.Apart from SoKo,Tillerson has now pleaded for Russia and China to rein in the "Kim-III" political missile!

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... t-packages
Seoul pleads with Vladimir Putin to help tame North Korea
South Korean president tells Russian leader that situation risks becoming uncontrollable
Moon Jae-in (left) and Vladimir Putin shake hands in Vladivostok.

Justin McCurry in Tokyo, Martin Farrer and agencies
Wednesday 6 September 2017 18.46 BST First published on Wednesday 6 September 2017 02.38 BST
The South Korean president, Moon Jae-in, has warned that the crisis on the Korean peninsula risks becoming “uncontrollable” as he sought Russian cooperation in a meeting with Vladimir Putin.

“The global political situation has become very serious due to North Korea’s repeated provocations,” Moon told the Russian president during bilateral talks in Vladivostok on Wednesday.

According to South Korean media, Moon asked Putin to help “tame” North Korea, as the international community considers its response to Pyongyang’s sixth nuclear test on Sunday.

There was further evidence that North Korea had made significant progress in its nuclear programme, with Japan saying it had revised upwards the estimated yield from Sunday’s bomb to 160 kilotons – making it more than 10 times bigger than the Hiroshima bomb.

“This is far more powerful than their nuclear tests in the past,” Japan’s defence minister, Itsunori Onodera, told reporters.

Moon Jae-in and Vladimir Putin in Vladivostok on Wednesday. Photograph: Sputnik/Reuters
The figure was based on a revised magnitude by the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty Organisation.

Japan’s revised estimate is far greater than the 50-100 kiloton yield given by the UN security council. The council is due to vote on Monday on a resolution condemning the North’s recent test, but there are signs of division over how to respond.

Putin has said he opposes fresh economic measures against the regime. While he condemned North Korea’s provocations, Putin said further sanctions would be useless and ineffective, describing the measures as a “road to nowhere”.

China, too, opposes any measure – namely an oil embargo favoured by the US and Japan – that could foment a domestic crisis big enough to topple North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and potentially end the country’s status as a buffer between China and South Korea, where US forces are based.

Japan’s prime minister, Shinzō Abe, arrives in Vladivostok, where he will meet Vladimir Putin.
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Japan’s prime minister, Shinzō Abe, is expected to broach sanctions with Putin when they meet in Vladivostok on Thursday.

“We have to make North Korea change its current policy and understand that there is no bright future if North Korea continues the present policy,” Abe told reporters before he left Tokyo.

The US president, Donald Trump, said military action against North Korea was not a first choice after what he called a strong and frank discussion with the Chinese president, Xi Jinping, about the issue.

“President Xi would like to do something. We’ll see whether or not he can do it. But we will not be putting up with what’s happening in North Korea,” Trump told reporters at the White House.

“I believe that President Xi agrees with me 100% ... We had a very, very frank and very strong phone call.”

In a flurry of phone calls with world leaders, Trump earlier took a tough line against negotiating with North Korea.

Trump stressed “now is not the time to talk to North Korea” and that “all options remain open to defend the United States and its allies”, according to a White House description of his telephone call with Theresa May.

Trump also discussed North Korea with the Australian prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull. Trump and Turnbull “confirmed that their two countries will intensify joint efforts to denuclearise North Korea”.

The UK defence secretary, Michael Fallon, told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Wednesday: “The US is perfectly entitled to make all the preparations it needs to protect its people, its bases, its own homeland. They are clearly doing that at the moment to make sure the president has all options he needs.”

He said the US defence secretary, James Mattis, “and I and others across the administration have made it clear we have to absolutely exhaust every possible diplomatic avenue to get this situation under control”.

“That means working intensively in New York over the next few days to get a new resolution. It means looking at the existing sanctions and making sure they’re properly enforced. It means looking at the European Union level and seeing what sanctions can be applied there and above all it means putting more pressure on China to deal with its neighbour. This last test was just 50 miles from the border of China.”

Geopolitical concerns continued to simmer following the nuclear test on Sunday, with one of North Korea’s most senior diplomats saying the US would receive more “gift packages” from the regime.

Han Tae-song, the country’s ambassador to the United Nations in Geneva, confirmed that North Korea had successfully conducted its sixth and largest nuclear bomb test on Sunday.

“The recent self-defence measures by my country … are a gift package addressed to none other than the US,” Han told a disarmament conference in Geneva on Tuesday. “The US will receive more gift packages … as long as it relies on reckless provocations and futile attempts to put pressure on [North Korea].”

North Korea nuclear crisis: Putin warns of planetary catastrophe

Tensions between the US and North Korea continued to take their toll on markets in the region on Wednesday. The Nikkei share average fell 0.7% to a four-month low in Tokyo in early trading but had mounted a slight recovery by mid-afternoon. In Sydney, the ASX200 benchmark index plunged by the same margin as investors opted for safe havens such as gold and government bonds.

The South Korean benchmark index – the Kospi – was 0.35% lower on Wednesday in the fifth successive day of losses. Shanghai dropped 0.4% while Hong Kong’s Hang Seng retreated 1%.
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