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Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Philip » 18 Dec 2015 17:46

Xcpts from Putin's annual press conf.The int. point is the Ru-US coming together on Syria,using the UN to broker peace.A v.welcome move.Improved Ru-US relations will massively reduce tension worldwide,esp. in the hotspots and put the jihadi adventurists on the run.

Flags raised at Russian Navy's new ships Zelyony Dol and Serpukhov
Russia Will Continue to Develop Crimea's Sevastopol Naval Base - Putin

15:41 17.12.2015
Putin's 2015 Annual Year-End Press Conference (41)

Russia is planning to continue developing its Naval base in Sevastopol, Putin said


MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Russia will continue to develop its Navy base located in Crimea’s Sevastopol, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Thursday.

“In regards to the purpose of Sevastopol and ways of developing it, it’s hard to say from a naval point of view that it plays a more important role than the port in Vladivostok or even in Kamchatka where our second most important nuclear submarine fleet is located. We’ve done much in order to maintain the [Sevastopol] base, we’ve developed it and will continue to develop it further,” Putin said during his annual press conference.

Russian Navy Testing Advanced Stealthy Frigate
Crimea voted to secede from Ukraine and rejoin Russia in a March 2014 referendum, with over 96 percent of voters backing the move.

The reunification drew international attention, with Kiev and a number of Western states labeling the process an annexation and accusing Russia of aggression against Ukraine.

Sevastopol, the Russian federal city within the Crimean Federal District, hosts the main naval base of the Black Sea Fleet of Russia. The base is strategically important for the country's naval fleet, in addition to being Russia's only warm water base.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151217/ ... z3ug4vErED


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -live.html
Vladimir Putin admits: Russian troops 'were in Ukraine'
After two years of resolute denials, the Russian president admits that he sent soldiers into eastern Ukraine after all

By Roland Oliphant, Moscow and Rozina Sabur 17 Dec 2015

• Putin blasts Turkey's 'Islamist' government
• Turkey accuses Russia of 'ethnic cleansing' as Syria row intensifies
• President discusses corruption scandal
• Russian military personnel were in eastern Ukraine, Putin admits
• Describes under fire FIFA chief Sepp Blatter as an inspiring man
• Relations between US and Russia may be thawing, Putin suggests
• Putin refuses to discuss daughters' whereabouts
• Russia sends warning to West with show of strength in Syria

Summary: What did Putin have to say?
Vladimir Putin admitted to deploying Russian military specialists to eastern Ukraine on Thursday, dropping nearly two years of denials that Russian servicemen were involved in the conflict there, writes Roland Oliphant in Moscow.

Speaking at an annual televised press conference, Mr Putin denied that “regular forces” were involved in the conflict, but conceded that “people dealing with tasks…in the military sphere,” had been involved in the conflict.

“We never said that there weren’t people there dealing with certain tasks, including in the military sphere,” he said, when challenged by a Ukrainian journalist about two captured Russian officers currently held in Ukraine.

“But that doesn’t mean there are regular Russian forces there. Feel the difference,” he added.

There was no opportunity for a follow up question to clarify exactly how many such people are in eastern Ukraine or which “tasks in the military sphere” they were fulfilling.

Mr Putin has previously denied any military role in Ukraine whatsoever. In televised remarks in April, he said: “I will say this clearly. There are no Russian troops in Ukraine.”

At a press conference last year he insisted that any Russians involved in the war there were simply “volunteers".

Mr Putin made the admission when answering a question about Captain Yevgenny Yerofeyev and Sergeant Alexander Alexandrov, who have identified themselves as serving members of Russia’s GRU special forces and were taken prisoner in eastern Ukraine in May.

Russian officials at the time claimed the pair were former, not serving, soldiers who ended up in Ukraine as volunteers.

Mr Putin made no effort to disown the pair on Thursday, instead calling on a “calm discussion” with the Ukrainian authorities about an “equal” prisoner exchange.

Mr Putin’s comments echoed his admission earlier this year that Russian forces had served in the annexation of Crimea.

Initially Mr Putin and his top officials insisted that the uniformed men who seized control of Crimea in March 2014 were “local self defence forces.”

But during a television phone-in in April, Mr Putin U-turned, saying “of course our troops stood behind Crimea's self-defence forces".

America

Mr Putin was unusually conciliatory about the United States, praising an American initiative to get a security council resolution aimed at ending the war in Syria and saying Russia “is ready and wants to improve the relationship".

“The recent visit by the secretary of state showed, I think, that the American side is ready to move towards mutual resolution of those problems that can only be resolved mutually. That is already in principle a healthy position. We strongly support it,” he said.

For a man who has previously bitterly described the US as a nation hell-bent on world domination, that is remarkably mild language.

While Mr Putin remains at logger heads with Barack Obama over Ukraine, Nato expansion in Europe, and the fate of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, alarm at the rise of the so-called Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant has prompted a limited thaw in relations.

Syria
Most significantly, Mr Putin publicly endorsed an American plan to resolve the conflict in Syria, and made a point of crediting Mr Obama for the idea.

"We support the United States’ initiative, including on preparing a Security Council resolution on Syria, and in particular the draft that the secretary of state brought here,”
he said, referring to John Kerry’s visit to Moscow on Tuesday.

“I think after becoming acquainted with the details it will also suit the Syrian leadership,” he added.

“The sequence must be: joint work to draft a constitution, a mechanism for future elections including transparency measures that everyone will trust,” he said of the peace plan.

He reiterated Russian opposition to the idea of getting rid of Assad as a condition of peace, however.

Turkey
Mr Putin reserved his bitterest barbs for Turkey and Recep Tayyip Erodgan, who he accused of presiding over a process of Islamisation that would have Turkish republic founder “Ataturk turning in his grave".

Russian and Turkish relations were plunged into crisis after Turkish jets shot down a Russian bomber aircraft over Syria last month, prompting Mr Putin to order a string of retaliatory measures including economic sanctions.

"Did someone in the Turkish leadership decide to lick the Americans in a particular place?” He mused. “I’m not sure they did it right, or even that the Americans would have wanted it.”

“Did they think we’d flee from there, or something? Russia is not that country! We increased our presence, we increased the size of our air contingent,” he said.

Intriguingly, he claimed Turkey’s shoot down incident was especially bitter because Russia had offered Turkey special assistance on issues that he did not wish to make public.

“I won’t say what - that’s not my style - but believe me, our Turkish colleagues asked for help on a number of very sensitive topics,” he said. “And we said ‘yes, we understand you, and are willing to help,” he said.

Economy, stupid

On the domestic front, economics dominated, with Mr Putin acknowledging the blow inflicted by falling oil prices, but insisting that recovery is in sight - and listing a string of statistics to prove it.

But he warned that “further adjustments” to the budget could be unavoidable unless the oil price recovers.

“At the end of 2014 we had to re-run our calculations [for the budget] because oil prices had halved from $100 to $50. But $50 was too optimistic. Now it’s what, $38?” he added.

Russia is going through its longest economic downturn since Mr Putin came to power 15 years ago, forcing the government to take a series of potentially unpopular austerity measures in order to balance the books.

By defending controversial new road charges for long distance lorry drivers and fudging a question about the especially sensitive topic of raising the pension age, Mr Putin seemed to signal that the Kremlin is bracing itself to weather the inevitable storm of public disaffection rather than back off such measures.

Corruption

The only moment Mr Putin seemed unsure of himself was when he was asked about corruption allegations against Yuri Chaika, Russia’s chief prosecutor and a long-serving member of the ruling elite’s inner circle.

Stumbling over the beginning of his response, and appearing to momentarily forget himself, he launched into a garbled Soviet joke about a fur coat before concluding that “we have to react to this.”

“Everything must be looked at very closely,” he said, in an apparent promise of an investigation.

Alexey Navalny, the anti-corruption campaigner who levelled the accusations linking Mr Chaika’s family to systematic corporate raiding and even (indirectly) a notorious organised crime group, immediately claimed Mr Putin seemed reluctant to defend the prosecutor.

Only time will tell whether the promised investigation leads to anyone being punished, however.

Sport

Mr Putin seemed more assured when defending Sepp Blatter, saying the the controversial Fifa president should be “offered a Nobel prize” for his services to international football, rather than accused of corruption.

Accusations of graft levelled at Mr Blatter and Fifa are sensitive for the Kremlin because some people have suggested graft may have had something to do with Russia’s winning bid to host the 2018 World Cup. Mr Putin insisted on Thursday that “Russia won its bid in an honest fight".

Turning to the ban on Russian athletes competing in international track and field competitions following damning findings of “state sponsored” doping, he promised the practice would be rooted out.

When a reporter asked a fawning question about Mr Putin’s own “fine sporting shape,” he interjected “without doping”.

Donald Trump

In keeping with an unofficial tradition, Mr Putin left one of his juiciest comments until after the press conference was over, when several journalists button-holed him as he left the hall.

"He is a very outstanding man, unquestionably talented," Mr Putin said when asked about Donald Trump, the controversial billionaire and candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, who has expressed admiration for Mr Putin.

He did not, however, say whether he would hand over Edward Snowden to the United States if Mr Trump became president, as the latter has claimed.

"It's not up to us to judge his virtue, that is up to US voters, but he is an absolute leader of the presidential race," he added.

A fairly unremarkable performance from Vladimir Putin this year, with all the traditional ingredients - a string of economic statistics, a salty bard about Russia’s current bete noir (this year it’s Turkey), and a handful of signals about the diplomatic and domestic state of play - including inside the Kremlin.

The most significant single line has to be Mr Putin’s admission that there were military specialists in Ukraine.

“We never said that there weren’t people dealing with certain tasks, including in the military sphere,” he said, when challenged by a Ukrainian journalist about two captured Russian officers currently held in Ukraine. “That doesn’t mean there are regular Russian forces there.”

Actually Mr Putin has repeatedly denied any military role in Ukraine, and the fact he did not disown the prisoners named by the journalists amounts to finally dropping a pretence that has long been implausible. It won’t make much difference on the ground in east Ukraine, but it is in its way a significant moment.

Interestingly, Mr Putin was unusually conciliatory about the United States, praising an American initiative to get a Security Council resolution aimed at ending the war in Syria and saying Russian “is ready and wants to improve the relationship.”

For a man who has previously bitterly described the US as a country bent on world domination, that signals quite a thaw. He seems keen to build on work ending the war in

Instead, the barbs were reserved for Turkey and Recep Tayyip Erdogan, whom he accused of presiding over a process of Islamisation that would have modern Turkish Republic founder “Ataturk turning in his grave".

The saltiest line? Asked if a “third country” might have been involved in the shoot down of a Russian bomber in Syria, he wondered aloud whether “someone in the Turkish leadership decided to lick the Americans in a particular place". He suggested, however, that the Americans weren't looking for such flattery.

On the domestic front, economics dominated, with Mr Putin acknowledging the blow inflicted by falling oil prices, but insisting that recovery is in sight - and listing a string of statistics to prove it. He also defended controversial new road charges, and fudged a question about raising the pension age - signalling that the Kremlin is readying to implement that some less than popular austerity measures.

Next, his slightly stumbling response to a question about Yuri Chaika, the chief prosecutor whose son has been linked to a string of corrupt businesses and indirectly to a notorious organised crime group. Mr Putin’s response amounted to “we’ll look into it,” could be taken as a a brush off, or Mr Chaika’s career is in ruins.

Alexey Navalny, the anti-corruption campaigner who levelled the accusations, has said Mr Putin clearly felt uncomfortable defending the prosecutor. Taken with Mr Putin’s refusal to rubbish the accusations, it could indeed mean Mr Chaika’s days in office are numbered.

Finally, of course, he called Donald Trump “talented” and welcomed the presidential contender’s proposals to improve relations with Russia. “How couldn’t we welcome that?” he asked rhetorically. An endorsement? Not quite.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby habal » 19 Dec 2015 07:05

Merkel didi is angry at foul mouth putin

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Philip » 19 Dec 2015 10:54

"Der Fraurer" is Time's "Man of the Year".Perhaps like Mrs.G and Mrs.T,she is the only man in her cabinet ja?

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Philip » 20 Dec 2015 18:41

The UKR-descending into dictatorship and disaster.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/d ... n-hysteria
Kiev has a nasty case of anti-communist hysteria
Volodymyr Ishchenko

Ukraine has banned a party that is neither communist nor dangerous – clearing the way for a new left loyal to neither Russia nor the west
Friday 18 December 2015

An anti-communist hysteria is prevailing in Kiev. After banning Soviet symbols earlier this year, a court has now outlawed the Communist party of Ukraine, preventing it from organising and taking part in elections.

The ban has been criticised by civil liberties campaigners, who say it contravenes the European Convention of Human Rights, to which Ukraine is a signatory. Under the convention, a political party cannot be banned for its symbols – rather there must be “proven activities” dangerous to the national security.

But the irony is that the Communist party of Ukraine is neither communist nor dangerous. The only things the party has in common with the determined Bolshevik revolutionaries of the past who spared neither themselves nor others are devotion to the Soviet symbols and appeals to empty “Marxist-Leninist” phrases.

Ukraine bans Soviet symbols and criminalises sympathy for communism

Ukraine’s Communist party was the most popular political group in the country during market reforms in the 1990s, but has since degenerated into a conservative and pro-Russian rather than pro-working class grouping, gradually losing its voters and elderly membership.

Party leaders became a part of the bourgeois elite and invited business support for their cause. The richest woman in the previous session of Ukrainian parliament, multimillionaire Oksana Kaletnik, was a member of the Communist group.

After the fall of Viktor Yanukovich’s government following the pro-European Maidan protests in 2014, some Communist activists and local organisations did support the separatist uprising in the east of the country. However the party leadership repeatedly stated its support for Ukrainian territorial integrity and excluded dissenters from its membership.

The party’s inconsistent stance towards the war in eastern Ukraine is one of the reasons for its current crisis. It hysterically criticised the “national fascist” regime that took over in Kiev while saying not a single critical word abut Russia.

Yet its statements were not backed by deeds. Communist party leaders disappointed many former members who expected more decisive actions against the post-Maidan government of billionaire chocolate tycoon Petro Poroshenko.

Combined with the loss of a large part of the pro-Communist electorate in Russian and separatist-controlled Crimea and Donbass, the party failed to get into the parliament in October 2014 for the first time in its history.

Maidan protestors surround police officers during the uprising that brought down the previous government in Ukraine. Photograph: Kommersant Photo/Kommersant via Getty Images

Despite being banned from local elections two months ago, Communist party candidates participated under the banner of the New State party – but performed even worse, winning only slightly more than one per cent of the votes.

Now the Communist party is simply an easy scapegoat. The Ukrainian government needs to continue the ideological war to divert attention from rising prices and austerity. In doing so, it is building political intolerance in a country already torn apart by war.

The ban will not make the party stronger. This is not an organisation able to close ranks, go underground and fight. It will appeal to the European Court of Human Rights, and might well win the case – as has happened in similar situations of anti-communist repression and censorship in eastern Europe.

But the crackdowns and electoral defeats have exacerbated already deep internal divisions within the party. Recently 19 local leaders from southern and eastern Ukrainian organisations resigned from the central committee to protest against repression of internal dissent.

They blamed a very unpopular Petro Symonenko, who has been party leader since it was founded in 1993.

The left flank of Ukrainian politics is vacant for now but won’t be for long. New “left” political projects sponsored by oligarchs are likely to appear, trying to gather the former Communist votes and some of the local membership.

On the other side, some “pro-Ukrainian left” party will probably arise to legitimise the government in the eyes of the west. It will mostly support the government’s policies against Russia and Donbas separatists but will criticise it from mild social-democratic or left-liberal positions.

But the genuine left should not become pawns in oligarchs electoral games nor act as the loyal whitewashers of a neo-liberal nationalist government.

A new left party should be deeply embedded into Ukrainian social movements and labour unions. It should be neither pro-Kiev nor pro-Moscow, but bring together ordinary people in the west and east in a fight for their shared class interests against their common enemies in Kiev, Donetsk, Moscow, Brussels and Washington.

Genuine internationalism and going back to the class roots is the only way for the new left in Ukraine. Every person who values democracy must oppose the ban of the Communist party. It violates human rights. It adds to political hysteria. It diverts attention from urgent problems in the Ukrainian economy

But we have to understand the mistakes the Communists made and to avoid them in the reconstruction of the Ukrainian left.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Bhurishrava » 22 Dec 2015 15:43

http://www.politico.eu/article/star-war ... olomoisky/

Star Wars in Ukraine: Poroshenko vs Kolomoisky


Kolomoisky says things had not always been so unfriendly between the two men(him and Saakashvili). In 2011, they went yachting together in Croatia: “He was there with his favorite, this big-titted economics minister of his — his lover,” says Kolomoisky. “I even gave him money for his election campaign in Georgia.”
:rotfl:

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Bhurishrava » 22 Dec 2015 16:19

After a little search the "big-titted" one has to be Vera Kobalia.
She was appointed economics minister when she was 28. She met Saakashvili a couple of months ago.
He is fond of pretty young brainless things.

No wonder Saakashvili is the poster boy of US `democracy and freedom`. Amazing.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Bhurishrava » 24 Dec 2015 13:59

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgQC3T8ad8M

One nice cabinet meeting in ukraine. :)

“You’re a thief and will go to jail,” an emotional Mikheil Saakashvili yelled at Ukraine’s Interior Minister Arsen Avakov last week.
“You are an asshole and clear out of my country,” responded Avakov, throwing a full glass of water in his direction.


http://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine- ... sanctions/

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby chanakyaa » 27 Dec 2015 04:47

Ukraine Budget Vote Seeks to Clear Way for Next IMF Tranche

Ukraine’s parliament approved next year’s budget as it seeks to clear the way for the government to receive delayed funds from a [b]$17.5 billion bailout to help the economy recover from recession[/b]....

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Bhurishrava » 29 Dec 2015 01:03

http://www.gallup.com/poll/187931/ukrai ... aign=tiles

According to Gallup, Poroshenko is less popular than Yanukovich, when he was ousted.
I will take that with a pinch of salt. IMHO, both Poroshenko and Yats are sufficiently `popular` not to get out of their house in Kiev without armed guards.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Bhurishrava » 30 Dec 2015 21:07

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... lapse.html
Inflation will hit 44pc in Ukraine this year, as the embattled economy has seen prices soar amid economic collapse.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby devesh » 01 Jan 2016 06:20

http://www.kyivpost.com/article/content ... 04387.html

Looks like there is a transit route already in place to transport Jihadis and Turkish mercs into Europe. Here's to hoping that Ukraine won't be foolish enough turn itself into a Jihadi hoarding fround to screw with Russia!

And lets also hope Western Europe isn't stupid enough to follow any such diabolical plans hatched by "others".

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Austin » 05 Jan 2016 08:34


Prem
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Prem » 07 Jan 2016 23:19

http://russia-insider.com/en/somalia-europe/ri12091
Welcome to Ukraine – Now the 'Somalia of Europe

For how much longer can the happy talk of visa-free travel and someday-prosperity hold the stink of failure at bay?“Everyone thought Ukraine would suddenly turn into Poland,” said mechanic Taras Yakubovsky, sitting by a cast-iron woodburner in his small garage, where work has dried up because customers can no longer afford car repairs. “But we’ve become more like Europe’s Somalia.”Wages – again reported by the State Statistics Service, are rising steadily, and were 4,532 hryvnia per month on average, in October. That’d be $198.34 USD by today’s exchange rate, or $2,380.08 annually. That’s still $5,886.99 short of the reported per-capita GDP adjusted for PPP, which is supposed to be a general reflection of the standard of living. Is that a little off? I think it is.Russia has said it will not abandon Russian-speaking Ukrainians to nationalists. I dare to hope Russia has a Plan B in mind which will save Ukraine, once the EU and Washington tire of playing with it and move on to ruin someone else.The east of Ukraine will never again let itself be ruled by Kiev, and the generation currently at maturity will never forgive the rest of Ukraine for not stopping Kiev when it turned the full force of the state military on them. But an uneasy business relationship could prevail under federalization with broad autonomy, and perhaps someday the country could once again throw its shoulder to the wheel together with a common purpose.Meanwhile, spare a moment of pity, in this season of family and forgiveness and plenty, for the Ukrainians who did not speak out in protest – for whatever reason – when the unthinkable happened, and have since paid such a terrible price for their passivity

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Satya_anveshi » 10 Jan 2016 07:06

3 in 4 Dutch voters oppose EU association agreement with Ukraine – poll
https://www.rt.com/news/328403-dutch-po ... sociation/

The results of the poll conducted by Dutch television program EenVandaag and released on Saturday, showed that the overwhelming majority of people in the EU-member state are not in favor of the agreement. Over 50 percent of voters said they would “definitely” vote against it, while another 25 percent of the respondents said they were “likely” to reject it.


“My guess is that people in the Netherlands are opposed more to the EU expansion, which leads to more immigration into western Europe from eastern Europe. And they don’t want thousands upon thousands of people coming from Ukraine... One of the reasons why people in Ukraine have wanted it [the agreement], is precisely because that’s exactly what they want to do,” Mercouris said.


That's BS. My guess is Dutch know the truth behind Malaysian Airlines flight 17 incident in which 193 were Dutch. If it was shot down by Ukraine and if they know it, supporting Ukraine becomes untenable.

We will get to see their character in April 2016 when the said referendum will be held.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby ramana » 10 Jan 2016 07:17

so did El Nino moderate the winter in Europe leading to Ukraine still surviving?

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Satya_anveshi » 10 Jan 2016 07:43

Ukraine, Pakistan, and Turkey are in unenviable position. They will always survive as long as they are on wrong path. Their value to western suitors is based on their ability to become nuisance to others.

IMF gave them monies despite being in sovereign default.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Austin » 11 Jan 2016 12:12

Putin Interview to German newspaper Bild

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/51154

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby prahaar » 11 Jan 2016 13:31

Austin wrote:Putin Interview to German newspaper Bild

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/51154


No wonder Putin sends shivers. He is frank and objective, understands his (Russia's) limitations and not a bombast. He also has the necessary military muscle to back up his resolve. The interview also underlines the importance Russia attaches to its relations with Germany.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby habal » 11 Jan 2016 14:27

Putin’s Multitudinous Fan Club: Why is It So Annoying to Western Analysts?



Read more: http://sputniknews.com/analysis/2016011 ... z3wvc7MWVZ

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Austin » 23 Jan 2016 13:40

Viv S wrote:Not likely. There was and is a high level of public support for accession to the EU. In contrast, public opinion on NATO accession was hugely negative.


No the East of Ukraine which is the industry base of Ukraine didnt want to join EU because of close industrial relation with Russia and their loss of industrial base which is what we are seeing now while the West did the country was clearly divided.

You see the state of Ukraine now they lost all their industry base and will just end up becoming beard basket for Europe.

The 'threat' to Russian naval control of the Black Sea again was absurd. The Russians had a lease on the place running to 2042, enforced by a powerful military footprint. The Ukrainian govt had absolutely no way of dislodging the Russians from Crimea - politically or militarily. If Putin had let the Ukrainian govt make the first move, he could have taken over Crimea with uniformed troops (instead of soldiers devoid of any insignia; 'little green men') and nobody in Europe would have batted an eyebrow, let alone apply sanctions.


Yes sure 2042 and much beyond what EU that signed the agreement for December Election and then went on their own word instilling Porshenko and Yats you expect them to honour the agreement :rotfl:

The Ukraine government would just have done the same thing they are doing in Donetsk killing their own people if they dont agree

Little Green Men just prevented a Massacre and Blood Bath happening in Crimea

As far as sanction go they should just keep that , it just helps Russia diversify to East
Frankly, the Turks are a much bigger threat with an ability to bottle up the Black Sea fleet by closing off the Bosphorus to military traffic, which would also cut off direct Russian access to Tartus.


Sure if they want to go for war with Russia they would do that.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Viv S » 23 Jan 2016 17:11

Austin wrote:No the East of Ukraine which is the industry base of Ukraine didnt want to join EU because of close industrial relation with Russia and their loss of industrial base which is what we are seeing now while the West did the country was clearly divided.

It had an overall majority of supporters especially among the youth. But that's not the point - there was very little support for accession to NATO in all parts of the country.

Yes sure 2042 and much beyond what EU that signed the agreement for December Election and then went on their own word instilling Porshenko and Yats you expect them to honour the agreement :rotfl:

The Ukraine government would just have done the same thing they are doing in Donetsk killing their own people if they dont agree

Little Green Men just prevented a Massacre and Blood Bath happening in Crimea

As far as sanction go they should just keep that , it just helps Russia diversify to East

Honouring/dishonouring/accepting/ignoring.. irrelevant. The cold crux of the matter is that Russia militarily controlled Crimea and there was no way for Kyiv to change the status quo on the island.

Of course if you accept that sanctions on Russia in the short term, and the accession of Ukraine to the NATO over the medium term, is an ideal outcome, then perhaps Putin has played his cards well.

Sure if they want to go for war with Russia they would do that.

Depends on the circumstances leading to it. If NATO accepts the case that Turkey is 'threatened by aggression' and chooses to back it, there isn't going to be a war.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Austin » 23 Jan 2016 21:52

Of course if you accept that sanctions on Russia in the short term, and the accession of Ukraine to the NATO over the medium term, is an ideal outcome, then perhaps Putin has played his cards well


Yes Russia got Crimea and Sevastopol which are of historic importance to Russia and 90 % of people there a warm water port as well

Russia got autonomy for Eastern region predominantly Russian supporting region from EU in return for not dividing Ukraine , not to mention after killing so many by Ukraine forces no people thr would want to be part of Ukraine

Russia created a frozen conflict and NATO charter does not accept country with frozen conflict.

In the end Ukraine lost every thing as a country they are neither here or there riddled with deep corruption and depending on imf loans to prevent the next default

5 years from now Porshenko and Yats would be in US like ex Georgian president Shakasvili and Ukraine will be in more deep shit

Although I don't credit Putin for all this as they even created frozen conflict with Georgia when Medvedev was president , so likely their national security council and KGB folks had this as part of Plan B

As far as Turkey goes right to passage in international water is international right if any country stops it , then its an act of war , if NATO wants to baxk them go to war with Russia then good luck to them because Russian warship would pass through sea as its right so either stop forcefully or let it pass

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Satya_anveshi » 25 Jan 2016 00:18

Ukrainian neo-Nazi participants of "Crimea blockade" terrorize Russian speaking Kherson region

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby member_29325 » 25 Jan 2016 01:04

There are ISIS terrorists from Turkey working with the Ukrainian neo-nazis, according to that news item.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Satya_anveshi » 25 Jan 2016 01:12

Yes. That is why the Levant thread and Ukraine thread are joined...last time oil prices went down so much Soviet Union collapsed. Now they are eyeing Russia.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Viv S » 25 Jan 2016 02:31

Austin wrote:Yes Russia got Crimea and Sevastopol which are of historic importance to Russia and 90 % of people there a warm water port as well

Russia always had A.R. Crimea and Sevastopol.

Russia got autonomy for Eastern region predominantly Russian supporting region from EU in return for not dividing Ukraine , not to mention after killing so many by Ukraine forces no people thr would want to be part of Ukraine

Russia created a frozen conflict and NATO charter does not accept country with frozen conflict.

- It took out pro-Russian votes from the equation, tipping the balance decisively in the West's favour in Kyiv.
- The 'frozen conflict' depends upon the situation remaining frozen. Something Ukraine could easily remedy by letting the Donetsk & Luhansk republics go, if its deemed to be blocking NATO membership.

Ironically, Russia will now have to push for statehood/an autonomous status for East Ukraine, while trying to stop them from gaining genuine independence.


Russian President Vladimir Putin called yesterday (31 August) for immediate talks on the "statehood" of southern and eastern Ukraine, although his spokesman said this did not mean Moscow now endorsed “the Novorossiya militias” calls for independence for territory they have seized.
.

However, Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov said there was no new endorsement from Moscow for rebel independence. Asked if "Novorossiya” (New Russia), a term pro-Moscow rebels use for their territory, should still be part of Ukraine, Peskov said: "Of course."


In the end Ukraine lost every thing as a country they are neither here or there riddled with deep corruption and depending on imf loans to prevent the next default

5 years from now Porshenko and Yats would be in US like ex Georgian president Shakasvili and Ukraine will be in more deep shit

Ukraine was corrupt and economically decaying long before Poroshenko came to power.

Per capita GDP -

Poland 1991 - $2,200
Ukraine 1991 - $1,600

Poland 2013 - $14,000
Ukraine 2013 - $4,000

______________________________________________________________________________


For a country like Ukraine, a move towards the oversight provided by the EU can only be a good thing. Even the Association Agreement directs the adoption of some 350 EU laws by the participant.

Whether it leads to lasting change only time will tell, but there's little doubt that there was no impetus for reform coming through the EEU. Russia for example, is nearly tied with Ukraine on TI's Corruption Perceptions Index (papered over by oil revenues). And the rest of the EEU isn't much better off.

______________________________________________________________________________


2014 Corruption Perceptions Index

Ukraine:
    Score - 26. Rank - 142


Eurasian Economic Union:

Russia:
    Score - 27. Rank - 136

Belarus:
    Score - 31. Rank - 119

Kazakhstan:
    Score - 29. Rank - 126

Armenia:
    Score - 37. Rank - 94

Kyrgyzstan:
    Score - 27. Rank - 136


As far as Turkey goes right to passage in international water is international right if any country stops it , then its an act of war , if NATO wants to baxk them go to war with Russia then good luck to them because Russian warship would pass through sea as its right so either stop forcefully or let it pass

The Bosphorus strait isn't international waters. It along with the other Turkish straits are legally Turkish internal waters i.e. sovereign territory. Passage is regulated by the Montreux pact, which allows Turkey to close down its straits under 'threat of aggression'. But that's not the issue here.

Point is, how is attacking Russian military facilities on Crimea in violation of signed treaties, not an act of war? And what makes you think NATO will support a potential NATO member from Eastern Europe in the event of hostilities with Russia, but not its ally of 64 years?

It can't be both ways. If Russian access to the Black Sea isn't under threat, than neither is Crimea.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Satya_anveshi » 25 Jan 2016 08:40

Paris to promote lifting of anti-Moscow sanctions by summer – French economy minister - Jan 24, 2016 (reports RT)

"The objective we all share is to provide the lifting of sanctions by the summer, as far as the [peace] process [in southeastern Ukraine] is respected," the French senior official said on Sunday while addressing French businessmen in Moscow, as cited by AFP.


New ISIS video features ‘last words’ of Paris attackers, threats to UK reports RT

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Virendra » 27 Jan 2016 13:15

Satya_anveshi wrote:Yes. That is why the Levant thread and Ukraine thread are joined...last time oil prices went down so much Soviet Union collapsed. Now they are eyeing Russia.

Is that why Iran's shackles have been removed by west? That is surely going to tumble crude oil prices further down.
But then Iran is friendly with Russia.
So I don't know whether and what impact will be there on Russia when Iran pumps oil freely and how Russia will deal with it.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Bhurishrava » 28 Jan 2016 14:38

http://news.webindia123.com/news/Articl ... 80250.html
Ukraine to terminate production of world famous "Antonov" aircraft.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Austin » 28 Jan 2016 16:07

^^ That was bound to happen , Russia was the major customer of Antonov and marketed the types it built jointly ,Now Russia now no longer supporting Antonov they dont have any thing much to look forward too , West wont support Antonov at cost of their own Airline Industry

The Saving Grace seems to be Saudi purching An-132 and upgraded version of Antonov .....May be the Engineer and Designer would just migrate to China to support their program

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Austin » 28 Jan 2016 16:08

PBS: Vladimir Putin Interview




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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Bhurishrava » 28 Jan 2016 23:10

https://euobserver.com/foreign/132039
EU sanctions on former Ukraine regime unravel.

The judges said the 2014 asset freeze was based solely on a letter from the Kiev prosecutor to the EU Council in Brussels.
They said the letter provided "no details concerning the matters specifically alleged against the five Ukrainians or the nature of their responsibility".

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Bhurishrava » 28 Jan 2016 23:20

http://www.pravdareport.com/news/world/ ... s_fight-0/

Ukraine's Poroshenko fights with Russian Vice Prime Minister Trutnev in Davos


"They stood up and grabbed each other by their garments. We had to pull them apart. Apparently, Poroshenko did not realize that his security was not around. It was a closed event only for the heads of delegations," an official representing the Russian delegation said.
:eek: 8)

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby member_29325 » 28 Jan 2016 23:28

Poroshenko had to leave the event early. Noteworthy, Trutnev has a black belt in karate.
Russian President Vladimir Putin was informed about the conflict. Putin asked Trutnev to be more careful. :lol:

"I bared my biceps incidentally and removed my jacket to be on the safe side." {so that he didn't get blood all over it} Did Vysotsky sing that song about you?" Putin asked Trutnev at the meeting, quoting the lyrics from one of Vladimir Vysotsky's songs.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby member_29325 » 31 Jan 2016 06:32

Pro-Kiev Ukrainian view from Russian-controlled Donetsk re: governance of poroshenko and his mob:

http://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_the_island_of_donetsk


“It is clear for everyone that the people who have come to power would not have managed to achieve anything in life under normal circumstances. These rats have come out of their holes and now they rule us. This is not normal. We are living on the other side of the looking glass, in a sort of parallel world”.

But she understands that the Donbas has to go down this path because that is the history of the land. It was here that the Bolsheviks let Ukrainians starve. They put others in the Gulag. Thousands of settlers from Russia were brought there in their place, and for them this land was always foreign. In Soviet times, and after the collapse, the Donbas was deliberately Russified.

Stepanovna is dismayed by Ukrainian politics. “We have everything to be a great country. Everything! Except for our leaders who only think of themselves. We have never had a patriotic president. Our political life has always totally depended on Russia”.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby chanakyaa » 31 Jan 2016 20:53

Following is a long conversation on Ookrane, geopolitics, Eye-shish, CAR, IMF, federalization, motives etc. (Nothing that is not already known) [English subtitles, unfortunately]

Chaos and war came to Russia's borders ?

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby svinayak » 31 Jan 2016 23:36

udaym wrote:Following is a long conversation on Ookrane, geopolitics, Eye-shish, CAR, IMF, federalization, motives etc. (Nothing that is not already known) [English subtitles, unfortunately]

Chaos and war came to Russia's borders ?


This is a proof that Eurasian politics is dominant politics in the world just like before 100 years ago.

The Atlantic power politics is getting dominated by Eurasian politics.

This shift started in 2011 and is increasing with China and other countries inclining towards the Eurasian power.

The area between Urkaine, Turkey/Syria/ME and Caspian sea will dominate the world politics for the next 20 years.

The American dominance will reduce in the world politics.

Hence choas is created to keep the control over the world affairs

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby member_29325 » 31 Jan 2016 23:41

svinayak wrote:Hence choas is created to keep the control over the world affairs


The only reason for creating chaos is to force change in directions that are seen as helpful to those creating chaos, though it rarely seems to work for them. By definition, chaos that can be controlled is not chaos.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby member_29325 » 03 Feb 2016 08:02

US sending troops to EU to fight the evil russians

Now that the US's ISIS gambit has been stymied by Russia -- they are raising the game in Europe to make Russia spend more on its military.

The long game by the US is to keep drawing Russia into conflicts while the russian economy is in a downturn -- the US clearly feels that breaking up USSR in 1991 did not go far enough. Of all the crises on the planet, the mofos in the US think Russia is the greatest threat! seriously?

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Postby Prem » 04 Feb 2016 22:06

Brookings FP Retweeted
Steven Pifer ‏@steven_pifer 26 minutes ago
#Ukraine headed for political crisis after Abromavicius resignation? Kyiv has much to do. Not opportune time for political crisis.

and

No return Crimea to Ukraine will not, we are back to their historical homeland! https://www.facebook.com/aksenov.rk/posts/546456475527816 … #КрымРоссияНавсегда


(Buffoon Kejriwals of Ukraine have Destroyed their own country)


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