Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Haresh »

If Switzerland joins NATO, what are the implications for International banking ??

Analysis: Neutral Switzerland leans closer to NATO in response to Russia

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/ ... 022-05-15/
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Manish_P »

My geography is very rusty. Is land locked Switzerland even close to the Atlantic Ocean :?:

Why not just scrap the name NATO and simply call it ARO - Anti Russia Organisation... that was what it was meant to be anyway.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by bala »

The hypocrisy of EU and Sanctions..
EU Drafts Plan for Buying Russian Gas Without Breaking Sanctions

European companies have been scrambling for weeks to figure out how they can meet Moscow’s demand and keep the crucial gas flowing without violating sanctions on Russia’s central bank.

On Friday, the commission told member states in a closed-door meeting that the updated guidance will clarify that companies can open an account in euros or dollars at Gazprombank as ordered by the Kremlin, according to the people, who asked not to be identified because the meeting was private.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/eu-draft ... 17593.html
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by venkat_r »

Yes the Hypocracy is startling..

Instead EU should have left Ukraine to its loses and allowed Russia to have its way with them without too much nonsense about morality and human lives - and Russia would have easily allowed them to enjoy the Russian gas without issues. Do not understand why they need to listen to US.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by venkat_r »

There is a divided population of Russian people based on Putin’s war

Russians in Germany clash over the Ukraine war
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Pratyush »

Haresh wrote:If Switzerland joins NATO, what are the implications for International banking ??

Analysis: Neutral Switzerland leans closer to NATO in response to Russia

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/ ... 022-05-15/
The Swiss banks neutrality was blown out of the water under Obama administration.

So it's immaterial today.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by rsingh »

venkat_r wrote:There is a divided population of Russian people based on Putin’s war

Russians in Germany clash over the Ukraine war
Err.....why is it Putin's war? Not Russia's war? It means it is Putin's personal war and not Russians. Never mind that Putin was democratically elected. This style of propaganda was started by western agencies and journalists and western media has swollen it without questioning. Have you ever heard "Blair's war, Boris's war, Biden's war, Bushes war or Churchill's war. We have to be careful with words. Tomorrow it can be Modi's war
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Cyrano »

It is already being painted as Modi's (hindutva) war on non-hindus and the west. The volume cant be increased since there is no atrocity p@rn of bodybags to show like they did in Bucha. But Modi will replace Putin as the west's favourite monster before 2024.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Maria »

The Turds are intent on playing both the sides, this is Turdogan's doing. Turks doing what Pakhanistan does best. Pakturd.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by hanumadu »

Azovstal surrender is being spun as evacuation of the injured for treatment in Russian controlled region. :)
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Cyrano »

Yeah, elensly is saying "mission accomplished" whatever the *** that means. These guys are beyond amazing!
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Tanaji »

hanumadu wrote:Azovstal surrender is being spun as evacuation of the injured for treatment in Russian controlled region. :)
This. There is no mention of the word “surrender” in the entire BBC coverage. Someone would think it was a test match and the players are walking away after a days play. So much for fair and neutral.

These things need to be filed away for future reference.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Jay »

hanumadu wrote:Azovstal surrender is being spun as evacuation of the injured for treatment in Russian controlled region. :)
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/17 ... =url-share
As Ukraine Orders Surrender of Steel Plant, Russia Seeks Stronger Hold in South
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by vijayk »

Jay wrote:
hanumadu wrote:Azovstal surrender is being spun as evacuation of the injured for treatment in Russian controlled region. :)
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/17 ... =url-share
As Ukraine Orders Surrender of Steel Plant, Russia Seeks Stronger Hold in South
Ukraine’s decision to end combat at the sprawling Azovstal steel plant gave Moscow full control over a vast sweep of southern Ukraine, stretching from the Russian border to Crimea, as Russian forces appeared to be fortifying their hold over parts of the south that they seized early in their invasion.

Even as Russia’s onslaught in eastern Ukraine struggles, the developments in the south underscore how much territory Moscow has captured, and suggest that Ukrainian forces will face steep challenges in attempting to regain it. Along a path of land stretching more than 500 miles from Luhansk in the east to Kherson on the Black Sea, the Ukrainian military said Russian forces were building defensive positions, installing proxy governments and taking steps to “Russify” the population.

In Zaporizka, a region just west of Mariupol, the Ukrainian military said that Russian forces were destroying roads and bridges to slow Ukrainian counterattacks. Moscow’s troops also erected concrete barriers and dug trenches around Europe’s largest nuclear power plant, in the city of Enerhodar, which Russia seized in the first month of the war, Ukraine’s nuclear power company said.

In the Kherson region, the nation’s agricultural heartland, the Ukrainians have been mounting counter attacks for weeks, slowly trying to reclaim lost ground, but have yet to launch a major offensive.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by hanumadu »

Jay wrote:
hanumadu wrote:Azovstal surrender is being spun as evacuation of the injured for treatment in Russian controlled region. :)
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/17 ... =url-share
As Ukraine Orders Surrender of Steel Plant, Russia Seeks Stronger Hold in South
Even here, they are saying surrender of steel plant, not soldiers. The very next line says 'Ukranian fighters were being evacuated'. Read Tanaji's post. There are other news outlets that are trying to hide the fact it's a surrender even if NYT does only a half spin.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Cyrano »

Quite amusing to see the verbal contortions just to avoid saying Ukr is losing.

NNazi Ukr sat on the wall, NNazi Ukr had a big fall,
All the King's javelins and all the kings guns couldn't put Ukr together again.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by venkat_r »

rsingh wrote: Err.....why is it Putin's war? Not Russia's war? It means it is Putin's personal war and not Russians. Never mind that Putin was democratically elected. This style of propaganda was started by western agencies and journalists and western media has swollen it without questioning. Have you ever heard "Blair's war, Boris's war, Biden's war, Bushes war or Churchill's war. We have to be careful with words. Tomorrow it can be Modi's war
If that makes you happy, it is the Russian invasion and not Russian war - let’s call it the Russian Invasion and Russian genocide to begin with.

Also, stop pretending that this is a democracy with two terms and not an autocracy, if this was a democracy, so is Pakistan and if Putin was an elected rep so is every Paki president. Of all the people, Indians should be the ones, especially who have studied Pakistan who drop the nonsense that Russia is a democracy.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by skumar »

Cross posting from the old Combat Tactics thread wrt "official" information.

Zelenskyy is exhulting "Mission Accomplished!" and Ukraine and their sponsors are "officially" claiming the Mariopol surrender as an "evacuation". So much so for official information attempting mass hypnosis.

We have heard about the Ghost of Kiev. Russia has not done anything on this scale except claiming this to be a "Special Military Ops" which no one believed anyway and which may have some merits in terms of the fire power Russia has brought to bear to this conflict.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by bala »

The bigger thought process from a strategic viewpoint is the check on unbridled greed, ambition, domination of one major entity in the world. Here the entity happens to be the Deep State of US, which has fangs all over the globe in multiple countries. The only entity that can oppose them happens to be Russia or more precisely the fUSSR capabilities, which worked well for some time. We are at a turning point in history where this check, if not made today, will be fait accompli for the Deep State. Whatever little advantage, setbacks, minor losses/victory have no bearing. This outcome has a direct bearing on India in the long run. Indians who perceive whatever advantage (money, edu, careers) they currently have with the West need to pause and understand the bigger picture.

One of the things to learn is Russia is using an unconventional way of going about things in Ukr. They have some shortcomings which I believe is similar to other nations armed forces (actuality vs theory). You can make a case out of the shortcomings - poor weapons, quality control, suspect tactics, planning, leadership, soldier calibre, army structure and so on. But remember, in other engagements, the first act was wanton destruction by Air dominance, with miles of death and destruction. Russia for whatever reasons has chosen the slow grind method, without resorting to blatant wanton destruction. This is the only real lesson combatwise we can learn from this engagement. We in India need to study the alternates and come up with pros/cons for our own use. There is no substitute to having things on our own vs acquiring things elsewhere.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by venkat_r »

Is there any proof of calling Ukraine nazis ? Would really like to know. Was it not the Ukraine that suffered when Germans and Nazis attacked Russia

If someone does not know or living under a rock - I can post the video after video of the military super power the Russian tanks and troops getting halal in the plains of Ukraine.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by venkat_r »

Cyrano wrote:It is already being painted as Modi's (hindutva) war on non-hindus and the west. The volume cant be increased since there is no atrocity p@rn of bodybags to show like they did in Bucha. But Modi will replace Putin as the west's favourite monster before 2024.
So that is your main concern !
Yes All these wars and Self inflicted Bucha killings and all the western propaganda is the western conspiracy to deprive India of the greatest PM Modi and to crush Hindus. Wake up and smell your inner Abdul.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by skumar »

venkat_r wrote:Is there any proof of calling Ukraine nazis ? Would really like to know. Was it not the Ukraine that suffered when Germans and Nazis attacked Russia

If someone does not know or living under a rock - I can post the video after video of the military super power the Russian tanks and troops getting halal in the plains of Ukraine.
If one is not living under a rock, one can also find video after video of Ukrainian nazis proudly claiming themselves as Nazis. Has one heard of Bandera? Was he not Ukrainian? Was he not awarded "Hero Of Ukraine" which was later revoked?

Has anyone claimed that Russia has not suffered losses? It is a strawman argument.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by venkat_r »

Read more about it - where did we see such brainwashing occur before……… is it in India ? Hmmmm nope it’s a democracy- guess again … if you have been on this forum for some time and cannot guess, your membership must be questioned

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by kit »

skumar wrote:Cross posting from the old Combat Tactics thread wrt "official" information.

Zelenskyy is exhulting "Mission Accomplished!" and Ukraine and their sponsors are "officially" claiming the Mariopol surrender as an "evacuation". So much so for official information attempting mass hypnosis.

We have heard about the Ghost of Kiev. Russia has not done anything on this scale except claiming this to be a "Special Military Ops" which no one believed anyway and which may have some merits in terms of the fire power Russia has brought to bear to this conflict.
"evacuation" = "Sh$t"
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by skumar »

Cyrano wrote:It is already being painted as Modi's (hindutva) war on non-hindus and the west. The volume cant be increased since there is no atrocity p@rn of bodybags to show like they did in Bucha. But Modi will replace Putin as the west's favourite monster before 2024.
Do not see much "evidence" about that. It is extremely unlikely that west will want to portray Modi as their favourite monster.

They are trying to make a Ganga Din out of Modi and finding it a bit difficult. If anything, I would criticize Modi government as still being too soft e.g. no riposte to patronising statements from German Agriculture Minister on what India should be doing regarding exports while the fact is that India requested for a temporary WTO exemption to sell subsidized food grains to meet shortages which is not being approved.
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 41_1.html.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Jay »

hanumadu wrote:
Even here, they are saying surrender of steel plant, not soldiers .
What a supremely weird argument to nitpick on. When someone says surrender of country/city/fort/steel plant, does anybody think it only implies the physical structures and not the fighting forces guarding it?
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Cyrano »

venkat_r wrote:
Cyrano wrote:It is already being painted as Modi's (hindutva) war on non-hindus and the west. The volume cant be increased since there is no atrocity p@rn of bodybags to show like they did in Bucha. But Modi will replace Putin as the west's favourite monster before 2024.
So that is your main concern !
Yes All these wars and Self inflicted Bucha killings and all the western propaganda is the western conspiracy to deprive India of the greatest PM Modi and to crush Hindus. Wake up and smell your inner Abdul.


I've posted enough on the rise of Neonazis in Ukraine, I've also posted in detail my analysis on Bucha claims, please do look them up and also do your research. Even western MSM has lots of articles on Ukr extremists until they changed tune and stopped talking about this few years ago.

You seem quite out of touch with the reporting in western media on India and the slant on Modi. He is as demonised and slighted as Putin, because like Putin, he doesnt try to conform or please. Once again, read up, do your research, your incredulity may go away.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by venkat_r »

skumar wrote:
venkat_r wrote:Is there any proof of calling Ukraine nazis ? Would really like to know. Was it not the Ukraine that suffered when Germans and Nazis attacked Russia

If someone does not know or living under a rock - I can post the video after video of the military super power the Russian tanks and troops getting halal in the plains of Ukraine.
If one is not living under a rock, one can also find video after video of Ukrainian nazis proudly claiming themselves as Nazis. Has one heard of Bandera? Was he not Ukrainian? Was he not awarded "Hero Of Ukraine" which was later revoked?

Has anyone claimed that Russia has not suffered losses? It is a strawman argument.
Glad that you agree that The giant and the Mighty Russian army with all the weapons of god in their arsenal are being beaten up by a handful of soldiers from Ukraine - would like that to sink in as seems like it has not for the majority of the posters here. It is the Military of Russia that is being beaten up and their tanks strewn up across the plains of Ukraine of what was supposed to be a “Special Military Operation” - special alright.

Also, your comment about Bandera is misplaced and old news
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera

As you have mentioned his name hopefully you spend time reading and educating yourself on the topic and understand the story and understand that it was annulled and the reason was the uproar it caused everywhere, not just by Russia only. That did not make EU or Israel attack Ukraine. Also, What is the current government of Ukraine got to do with it? Also how does that justify invasion of a country based on some % people supporting a leader in the past and how does that justify bombing and killing civilians? Going by similar logic, India can be attacked if it celebrates Netaji Subash Chandra Bose assuming you know his history of collaboration with Nazis.

So finally hope you agree with the current Russian Invasion is based on grander Russia objectives with scant regard to other nation’s sovereignty and less on neo nazis or Ukraine joining NATO or EU, etc
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Cyrano »

skumar wrote: Do not see much "evidence" about that. It is extremely unlikely that west will want to portray Modi as their favourite monster.
Happens steadily over time. You'll see it for ex in western media coverage around Modi's visits abroad, has also happened during covid lockdown, china standoff, COPE, CAA, 370... - always in a negative slant, sometimes directly, often written by Indian name handles. Didn't you notice the reaction to recent UN vote abstention?

If Modi does something big which the west doesnt like, the full smear campaign will be unleashed. Not that it matters beyond a point, especially to Modi.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Cyrano »

venkar_r,
Your ignorance is matched only by your tone which is close to troll level. If you want anyone to take you seriously and respond, you really need to read up this thread for the past 3 months and dial down the woke attitude. No one here is obliged to educate you by debating with you when you seem to have no particular insight or cogent idea to offer. Don't respond to this post, I won't react to it.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Cyrano »

Good post Bala ji!
Merits reading a few times to get its full import.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by venkat_r »

Cyrano wrote:
I've posted enough on the rise of Neonazis in Ukraine, I've also posted in detail my analysis on Bucha claims, please do look them up and also do your research. Even western MSM has lots of articles on Ukr extremists until they changed tune and stopped talking about this few years ago.

You seem quite out of touch with the reporting in western media on India and the slant on Modi. He is as demonised and slighted as Putin, because like Putin, he doesnt try to conform or please. Once again, read up, do your research, your incredulity may go away.
You are an educated guy and seems like you got few things mixed up in your head for now - if the only prism that you want to see is via Modi and how he is projected and want to twist and turn everything to build that narrative, well you can, but obviously you would be wrong. Have to give up that “world is out there to get us” kind of paranoia, it is not going to help your health and it is not helping your academic research or viewpoints.

What has western reporting on Modi got to do with Russian/Ukraine war ? Of course it might mean everything in your world. Your mission of defend Modi - cannot find fault with it, though might have preferred slightly altered defend India, though they both are pretty synonymous these days, but your approach has a lot of holes and it has brought you to defend Putin and his killings of civilians and killing of Ukrainians - all for what ? A very unjustifiable war and in this day and age to kill people from a different nation in the name of greater Russia is unpardonable. Take time and think, no rush.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by kit »

Cyrano wrote:venkar_r,
Your ignorance is matched only by your tone which is close to troll level. If you want anyone to take you seriously and respond, you really need to read up this thread for the past 3 months and dial down the woke attitude. No one here is obliged to educate you by debating with you when you seem to have no particular insight or cogent idea to offer. Don't respond to this post, I won't react to it.
I would say ., there are almost half a dozen pages in this same thread regarding just the UKe azov battalion and its publicly professed nazi / fascist contours
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Cyrano »

venkat_r, You're simply trolling now. If you think I'm all mixed up why argue with me?
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Kati »

:roll: :roll: :roll:
Troll Alert.....!!!
venkat_r wrote:Is there any proof of calling Ukraine nazis ? Would really like to know. Was it not the Ukraine that suffered when Germans and Nazis attacked Russia

If someone does not know or living under a rock - I can post the video after video of the military super power the Russian tanks and troops getting halal in the plains of Ukraine.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by hanumadu »

Jay wrote:
hanumadu wrote:
Even here, they are saying surrender of steel plant, not soldiers .
What a supremely weird argument to nitpick on. When someone says surrender of country/city/fort/steel plant, does anybody think it only implies the physical structures and not the fighting forces guarding it?
Allright boss, have it your way. Western media has been a paragon of objective reporting on ukraine war. But there seems to be too many fools like me on the internet making a mockery of the 'evacuation' vs 'surrender' thing. Your services are required there too to correct them.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by skumar »

venkat_r wrote:...
--Also, your comment about Bandera is misplaced and old news
...
As you have mentioned his name hopefully you spend time reading and educating yourself on the topic and understand the story and understand that it was annulled and the reason was the uproar it caused everywhere, not just by Russia only. That did not make EU or Israel attack Ukraine. ...
I can only say that you are confused, all over the place.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by venkat_r »

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by titash »

venkat_r wrote:
Cyrano wrote:
I've posted enough on the rise of Neonazis in Ukraine, I've also posted in detail my analysis on Bucha claims, please do look them up and also do your research. Even western MSM has lots of articles on Ukr extremists until they changed tune and stopped talking about this few years ago.

You seem quite out of touch with the reporting in western media on India and the slant on Modi. He is as demonised and slighted as Putin, because like Putin, he doesnt try to conform or please. Once again, read up, do your research, your incredulity may go away.
You are an educated guy and seems like you got few things mixed up in your head for now - if the only prism that you want to see is via Modi and how he is projected and want to twist and turn everything to build that narrative, well you can, but obviously you would be wrong. Have to give up that “world is out there to get us” kind of paranoia, it is not going to help your health and it is not helping your academic research or viewpoints.

What has western reporting on Modi got to do with Russian/Ukraine war ? Of course it might mean everything in your world. Your mission of defend Modi - cannot find fault with it, though might have preferred slightly altered defend India, though they both are pretty synonymous these days, but your approach has a lot of holes and it has brought you to defend Putin and his killings of civilians and killing of Ukrainians - all for what ? A very unjustifiable war and in this day and age to kill people from a different nation in the name of greater Russia is unpardonable. Take time and think, no rush.
venkat_r-ji,

Irrespective of whether you agree or disagree with Cyrano-ji's perspective, there are a few things that one can broadly agree upon as a student of realpolitik (which really is what being a Rakshak of Bharat eventually boils down to)

1) No one gives a crap whether a certain country is a dictatorship / monarchy / democracy and whether its economic model is capitalist or socialist. All we care about is whether someone is on your side or not i.e. aligned with you long term or not. A few examples:
** China (capitalist dictatorship of the non-communist "communist" party) is one of the largest US import partners
** Saudi Arabia (absolute monarchy of the "chop-chop square" legacy) is one of the largest US export partners incl. cutting edge military ware

2) We can all agree that the Russians (a "guided" democracy) have invaded a democracy (more or less). So what? No one in India gives a crap about that either. As long as oil, cooking oil, wheat, onion prices are stable and Su-30/S-400 spares keep flowing, why should we even care?

3) Indians like Russia because it has historically stood by India in the US, sold it weapons with no restrictions/sanctions, and more importantly doesn't give them sanctimonious lecture on a regular basis. They sell large quantities of fertilizer, wheat, sunflower oil, oil & gas, weapons and don't give you the proverbial "ungli" every 2 weeks. Why should India give up a bird in hand for bird calls from the bush?

4) While the Western/Ukrainian propaganda machine is far superior to the Russian one (we all agree on that), there is no evidence photographic or otherwise that the Russians killed Ukrainian civilians in Bucha. For all you know they were killed and dumped by the Ukrainian Army, Azov regiment boys, or US/UK/EU mercenaries. Can you prove otherwise?

5) The Russians have been warning practically anyone who'd listen (since 2012) that NATO expansion into Ukraine & Finland was a red line. Give me one reason why NATO does not bear some responsibility for the invasion of Ukraine? Who provoked Putin into launching "Putin's War". Should we not call it "Obama's Idiocy" or "Biden's Stupidity" by the same yardstick?

Modi-ji is the first Indian leader in recent history who actually cares about the nation's rightful place under the sun. Why do you think people vote for him...a mere chaiwalla? Why do you think people (specially Hindus) are getting tired of the constant sermonizing from NYT, WaPo, Al Jazeera/Al Qaeda, FT, and every wannabe liberal arts "academic/intellectual"? People (specially Hindus) are starting to see through the facade of "democracy/human rights" and coming to the conclusion that a dictator/monarch who's nice to us is worth a thousand times more than a liberal democracy that doesn't value us

Take time and think, no rush.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by venkat_r »

Cyrano wrote:venkat_r, You're simply trolling now. If you think I'm all mixed up why argue with me?
Sir my sincere apologies - no longer will.

Thank you for posting about western media propaganda against Modi in this thread and calling me a troll for pointing that out.
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