Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

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ks_sachin
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by ks_sachin »

But what if he or she has committed a crime i.e. killing of a non-combatant?
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Manish_P »

Noob question - have Russia or Ukraine formally declared war ?

many interactions with company lawyers to be blamed onlee
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by rsingh »

Manish_P wrote:Noob question - have Russia or Ukraine formally declared war ?

many interactions with company lawyers to be blamed onlee
If there is no war......there are no POWs. Geneva convention out.Russian special op units caught some terrorists.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Pratyush »

ks_sachin wrote:But what if he or she has committed a crime i.e. killing of a non-combatant?
He is not being put on trial for any crime. It for being a part of this operation.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by IndraD »

On a lighter note Mr. Bean actor Rowan Atkinson managed to set off an overnight fireworks display in Chippenham on the birthday of his 40-year-old girlfriend, scaring away the nearby villagers who mistook the firing for a Russian invasion and called 999

https://www.wiltshire999s.co.uk/dogs-mi ... rth-party/
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Thakur_B »

rsingh wrote:
Manish_P wrote:Noob question - have Russia or Ukraine formally declared war ?

many interactions with company lawyers to be blamed onlee
If there is no war......there are no POWs. Geneva convention out.Russian special op units caught some terrorists.
Nope. Geneva convention would still apply.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by KLNMurthy »

Cyrano wrote:What an assault on intelligence that article is!
OT but we might be surprised as to how effective NYT remains. A lot of otherwise intelligent people outsource their thinking to NYT based on prestige alone.

Intelligence may matter less than prestige and social status.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by KLNMurthy »

ks_sachin wrote:But what if he or she has committed a crime i.e. killing of a non-combatant?
I believe accounting of such things may come at the conclusion of the war, if the pow happens to be on the losing side. With tribunals and so on.

If on the winning side, nothing will happen.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Maria »

Thakur_B wrote:
rsingh wrote:
If there is no war......there are no POWs. Geneva convention out.Russian special op units caught some terrorists.
Nope. Geneva convention would still apply.
Correct, India and Pakistan did not declare war for Kargil in '99. Yet there were POWs governed by the conventions.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Shanmukh »

Russia is basically slamming the door on the West. Lavrov says they will pursue a deeper cooperation with China. This has huge implications.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world ... 62601.html
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Nihat »

Shanmukh wrote:Russia is basically slamming the door on the West. Lavrov says they will pursue a deeper cooperation with China. This has huge implications.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world ... 62601.html
This is not good for Russia in the long run. China is a snake and will take every pound from Russia without anything in exchange, just like has happened with all its allies.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Dilbu »

This is what everyone was expecting. A deeper embrace between China and Russia. There is also this news of Russian and Chinese aircrafts flying close to Japan during QUAD meeting. This is not good news for India also.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Pratyush »

Nihat wrote: This is not good for Russia in the long run. China is a snake and will take every pound from Russia without anything in exchange, just like has happened with all its allies.

Based on everything that has happened between the west and Russia since 2001. Not really surprising that Russia will become close to PRC.

Good for Russia or not is not really relevant for the parties concerned. As the US is hell bent on pushing Russia into an embrace with PRC.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by rsingh »

Maria wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:
Nope. Geneva convention would still apply.
Correct, India and Pakistan did not declare war for Kargil in '99. Yet there were POWs governed by the conventions.
Yes India Followed Geneva convention. But not sure about Bakistan. Let"s assume India does yet another surgical strike to demolish some camps and one of our solder is caught. Do you think he will be treated under Geneva convention?
Yes any visible hostility is war (Protocol 1 ). Then there right war which postulates that one country can attack another to destroy extreme right groups (like Nazi or supremacy group).Russia is carefully making case here. 33% UKR population was Russian speaking. UKR brought law to ban Russian language. Secondly extreme right groups in UK are not a secret.
Last edited by rsingh on 25 May 2022 18:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Maria »

Pratyush wrote:
Nihat wrote: This is not good for Russia in the long run. China is a snake and will take every pound from Russia without anything in exchange, just like has happened with all its allies.

Based on everything that has happened between the west and Russia since 2001. Not really surprising that Russia will become close to PRC.

Good for Russia or not is not really relevant for the parties concerned. As the US is hell bent on pushing Russia into an embrace with PRC.
This at best will be a transactional relationship between the Russi and the Kitaiski. On the lines of the Indo-American relations.

No Chinaman is ever going to fight a Russian war for Russia. Vice versa, needless to say.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Thakur_B »

rsingh wrote:
Maria wrote:
Correct, India and Pakistan did not declare war for Kargil in '99. Yet there were POWs governed by the conventions.
Yes India Followed Geneva convention. But not sure about Bakistan. Let"s assume India does yet another surgrical strike to demolish some camps and one of our solder is caught. Do you think he will be treated under Geneva convention?
The very condition of safe Return of Group Captain Abhinandan was follow Geneva Conventions or be prepared for retribution.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by rsingh »

Sir ji, it was the retribution factor. It seems some had wet pent (literally). Modi factor.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by NRao »

Nihat wrote:
Shanmukh wrote:Russia is basically slamming the door on the West. Lavrov says they will pursue a deeper cooperation with China. This has huge implications.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world ... 62601.html
This is not good for Russia in the long run. China is a snake and will take every pound from Russia without anything in exchange, just like has happened with all its allies.
I am not sure you have the right read on some basic data points on Russia:

* Russia has the largest natural resources in the world: currently estimated at $75 trillion (US is 2nd at $45 trillion)(Iran is #5 and China is #6!!)(India is not even top 10)
* (I recall one of your posts that compared Russia to India, so) India :: Russia
* GDP: (2021) $3.1 trillion : $1.7 trillion
* per capita GDP: $2,200 : $12,000+ (Russians are 6 times more "richer" than the Indian)

Russian currency is doing extremely well, to the extent, even under sanctions, the Bank of Russia is buying foreign currency - while forcing buyers of Russian oil (and soon wheat) to pay in Rubles

Russia is doing alright and the future - thanks to Biden and Neocons - looks even better

Just thought I did pitch in some data
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Maria »

Thakur_B wrote:
rsingh wrote: Yes India Followed Geneva convention. But not sure about Bakistan. Let"s assume India does yet another surgrical strike to demolish some camps and one of our solder is caught. Do you think he will be treated under Geneva convention?
The very condition of safe Return of Group Captain Abhinandan was follow Geneva Conventions or be prepared for retribution.
You nailed it, our danda is bigger than there's on any given day - and they know it.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Maria »

NRao wrote:
Nihat wrote:
This is not good for Russia in the long run. China is a snake and will take every pound from Russia without anything in exchange, just like has happened with all its allies.
I am not sure you have the right read on some basic data points on Russia:

* Russia has the largest natural resources in the world: currently estimated at $75 trillion (US is 2nd at $45 trillion)(Iran is #5 and China is #6!!)(India is not even top 10)
* (I recall one of your posts that compared Russia to India, so) India :: Russia
* GDP: (2021) $3.1 trillion : $1.7 trillion
* per capita GDP: $2,200 : $12,000+ (Russians are 6 times more "richer" than the Indian)

Russian currency is doing extremely well, to the extent, even under sanctions, the Bank of Russia is buying foreign currency - while forcing buyers of Russian oil (and soon wheat) to pay in Rubles

Russia is doing alright and the future - thanks to Biden and Neocons - looks even better

Just thought I did pitch in some data
Since we are talking about the new fuel named data, a couple of questions on the data given and the statements made above(and some extra questions):

1) How much wealth do the expatriate Oligarchs hold outside Russia? (those whose wealth can be frozen/blocked by Western powers and hence their contribution can be negated). Also, I am assuming that this wealth is practically blocked off and business dealings halted (majority of it - discounting some cases such as the Swiss release), what will be the impact on the Russian per capita GDP stated above (from 2021)?

2) What is the exact distribution of wealth among the Russians?

3) What is the wealth distribution between the Asian centre, Siberia (the region closest to the Kitaiski) and the European areas? (if the Siberian populace is substantially poorer than the Chinese - this negates the wholesale statement that Russians are doing better, as they will indeed be dependent on the Chinese for trade)

4) What was the rate of growth of the Russian economy before the war? Can they sustain this influx of hard Rubles for their produce in the long run? I think the Pakistanis also feel great when there is influx of foreign aid.

5) Regardless of the result of the war, what will be the exact nature of the so called coming bear hug between the Russians and Chinese? How exactly will it benefit the Russians?

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/ ... ort-a74180

https://www.statista.com/statistics/482 ... ge-wealth/

Hope I was eloquent and not flatulent.
Last edited by Maria on 25 May 2022 19:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Atmavik »

Slowly but surely the noose is tightening in the Donbas
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Maria »

Atmavik wrote:Slowly but surely the noose is tightening in the Donbas
I personally feel that Severodonetsk is done for with reportedly only 2000 Ukr-orcs there, Lysychans'k will be a lot tougher with 10,000 personnel from the AFU.

Then we also have a mammoth garrison at Slaviansk and Kramatorsk for the Rus' to deal with (that 10,000 from Lysychans'k would prolly fall back there to form a bigger Mordorish army) [They would have to break-out though].

The AFU is not yet ready for a pitched battle with the Russians in the satellite cities, for instance they gave up easily in Svetlodarsk, running tail wedged within legs towards the larger cities.

The goods news is that the northern flanks are folding well with the reported fall of Lyman (edited - nope the city is still with the AFU).

Alas, a lot of advanced western weaponry is awaiting service with the Russians, from the FH-77s to French Caesar MTAGs - as they already deployed in the 'Bass.

The pimple is awaiting a good squeeze.
Last edited by Maria on 25 May 2022 20:30, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Cyrano »

Maria ji, you spilled my coffee! :rotfl:
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Maria »

Cyrano wrote:Maria ji, you spilled my coffee! :rotfl:
:D Glad that I didn't cause spillage of anything else.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by NRao »

Maria wrote:
5) Regardless of the result of the war, what will be the exact nature of the so called coming bear hug between the Russians and Chinese? How exactly will it benefit the Russians?

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/ ... ort-a74180

https://www.statista.com/statistics/482 ... ge-wealth/

Hope I was eloquent and not flatulent.
Very eloquent indeed, thanks

A brief answer, since this is not the thread:

1) The purpose of my previous post was to make sure that people have the data - after that they can infer anything they want. So, if they feel India is doing better than Russia despite Russians having a 6x per capita GDP - up to them

2) On Oligarchs, extremely valid question (they are a scourge). Two questions:

a) Who created them in the early 1990s and why (hint: Elensky) and the rise of Putin?

b) Who sustained them for 30 years or so? I mean Russia is an export oriented economy and as you have pointed out Russians do not have the buying power to sustain oligarchs. Can discuss further in appropriate thread
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by IndraD »

Image

slowly steadily these have started appearing in BBC et al building narrative to give up territory to Ru for peace
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Maria »

NRao wrote:
Maria wrote:
5) Regardless of the result of the war, what will be the exact nature of the so called coming bear hug between the Russians and Chinese? How exactly will it benefit the Russians?

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/ ... ort-a74180

https://www.statista.com/statistics/482 ... ge-wealth/

Hope I was eloquent and not flatulent.
Very eloquent indeed, thanks

A brief answer, since this is not the thread:

1) The purpose of my previous post was to make sure that people have the data - after that they can infer anything they want. So, if they feel India is doing better than Russia despite Russians having a 6x per capita GDP - up to them

2) On Oligarchs, extremely valid question (they are a scourge). Two questions:

a) Who created them in the early 1990s and why (hint: Elensky) and the rise of Putin?

b) Who sustained them for 30 years or so? I mean Russia is an export oriented economy and as you have pointed out Russians do not have the buying power to sustain oligarchs. Can discuss further in appropriate thread
Perhaps we could take this to the war fallout thread Rao garu.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by rsingh »

Talking about resource richness of big countries. Japan,Germany France,UK etc are doing well without huge resources. Even India cover much of her energy imports buy exporting petrol products. We have coal and iron.. we need technology and trained workforce
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Cyrano »

Some light on the blindingly bright elensly who made many close their eyes:

https://im1776.com/2022/05/27/servant-of-the-corrupt/
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by chetak »

EU cracks widen over Ukraine as Italy, Hungary urge truce


https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu ... 022-05-25/
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by chetak »

what henry kissinger said in davos

Henry Kissinger: Ukraine must give Russia territory


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... ory-davos/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... sanctions/
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by chanakyaa »

After reading Kissinjer articles in 2014 and 22 (after seeing what transpired after 8 years of interference in Pakraine and 100 days of war, and who has clear advantage), it looks like there are no serious takers of this 98-year's view anymore. Either there is a clear split between ne0cons, dip state ityadi ityadi, between who the real enemy is (in terms of where real efforts must be spent) between russ and China, or there is an absolute clarity that both are problem and must be dealt with by sending donkeys and elephants to power alternatively.

Coming back to Pakraine and Kissinjer, he is basically saying (and indirectly not saying) that wrap up this war before winter, else it will turn into global war between Nato and Russ. Wait, so is he indirectly saying that such a scenario must be avoided because Nato has no chance of winning or is it because in such a scenario, it will turn nooklear very quickly and into mutual self-destruction?

Regardless, Russ remains heavily sanctioned, Pakraine and EU are fckued, China is the only beneficiary with Russ delivered in a silver plate, India is busy growing itself to its civilizational glory and doesn't care, uncle feeling all the secondary effects including a possibility of Afg/Viet 2.0 outcome. I think what Kissinjer is not saying directly, but indirectly warning that if this evolves in to a situation where debt, thollar are challenged, game is over. Given how extreme things have become, even if Pakraine wants to settle, why would russ settle?
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by NRao »

^^^^^

Kissinger is saying NATO/EU/US has 2 months to make dead sure that the Sino-Russo relations does solidify so much that it reaches a point of no return.

The split - IMO - is within the neocon community (which is not homogeneous). How serious is the fallout could potentially be seen in Sr. policy guys (Blinken/Sullivan) leaving this admin.

Joe Biden was considered to be a FP go-to guy. This is a total disaster for his legacy. Doubt he will recover. IMHO.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by NRao »

Chanakyaa,

Here you go:

https://twitter.com/PLnewstoday/status/ ... 5043146753
Henry Kissinger was added as a terrorist to the Ukrainian Government portal Peacemaker!
Henry Alfred Kissinger is a German-born American politician, diplomat, & geopolitical consultant who served as USA Secretary of State and National Security Advisor under Nixon & Ford

Image
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Cyrano »

^^^ Paki suicidal rabidness + Euro racist entitlement = UkroNazi attitude.

What a snakepit Europe has let the US bred at its doorstep. They can and probably will stamp them out mercilessly, but will get a few ankles bitten in the process. But only Putin Dada can defang them and hopefully make them close to normal some day.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by Atmavik »

^^^ they are only missing the key ingredient that pakis have
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by prahaar »

https://youtu.be/1C8wspuji7U

Interesting discussion about the war in Ukraine. A weak Russian military is a consensus in WEF. Indian representative tried to bring some sense to the discussion and not make it an echo chamber.

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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by chetak »

Image
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Post by IndraD »

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... poll-shows Negative views of Russia mainly limited to western liberal democracies, poll shows



The countries with a widely held most negative view of Russia included Poland (net negative 87%), Ukraine (80%), Portugal (79%), Italy (65%), UK (65%), Sweden (77%), US (62%) and Germany (62%). Even in Hungary – whose leader Viktor Orbán is an ally of Putin – a net 32% have a negative view of Russia. In Venezuela, often seen as propped up by Russia, the local population has a net negative view of Russia of 36%.
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