Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 28 Apr 2022 15:42

US has a nasty habit of deposing legitimate governments around the world and then wondering when things don't go according to their "plan".

Having said that, I think Putin and Russia have revealed their weakness here. If the US could depose a government in Ukraine without outright violence, the Russians should have also been able to do so given their proximity and levers. This should have been settled through intrigue and influence rather than war in Russia's favour. The war only proves that Russia wields close to zero real influence in world matters, which is sad for such a big and historic world power, today a shell of its former self.

And yes, we should be screaming out loud that this is a white man's war and we honestly don't care a damn which way it goes. Last time we unwillingly participated in one (WW-2), we lost men, our economy tanked and a massive famine was thrust on us killing millions. And our sacrifices aren't remembered by those saved by our men.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Apr 2022 15:53

Yensoy, i would agree with you if this was a normal situation.

I see this as a civil war between Russia and Ukraine. With US fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian.

In this context, it makes no difference if force is used.

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Apr 2022 15:56

https://www.rt.com/business/554604-eu-t ... s-imports/

The source noted that, according to EU estimates, Poland and Bulgaria are not likely to experience a shortage of gas in the nearest future and have the technical ability to receive both pipeline gas from the European market and LNG. He added, however, that Brussels views the termination of supplies to Warsaw and Sofia on the basis of their refusal to pay in rubles “as a violation by Russia of long-term contracts with these countries.”

Earlier on Wednesday, Bloomberg reported that at least 10 European companies have opened accounts to pay for Russian gas in rubles, and four of them have already made payments in accordance with Moscow’s new demand. The publication cited a source in Gazprom as saying Russia is unlikely to halt supplies to any more countries, should they refuse the new payment requirement, until the second half of May when the next payments are due.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Apr 2022 15:59

Interesting, that Russians are receiving payment in Rubles from EU nations.

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Apr 2022 16:00

https://www.rt.com/news/554609-yaroshen ... ed-marine/

US national Trevor Reed, sentenced to nine years' jail in Russia in 2020, has been exchanged for pilot Konstantin Yaroshenko, who had been serving a 20-year sentence in a US prison since 2010, the Foreign Ministry, in Moscow, announced on Wednesday.

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Apr 2022 16:03

https://www.rt.com/news/554069-politica ... gn-police/

Relevant to this thread as well !

The US and Pakistan put a premium on defense cooperation, including officer training, arms trade and the building of military infrastructure. By the mid-1960s, Pakistan had become better equipped with arms and ammunition than its archrival India. However, when Islamabad needed decisive support from Washington during the Indo-Pakistani wars of 1965 and 1971, the Americans preferred to abstain and watch from afar the defeat of its “very important ally.”

[ Put in India in place of pakistan and China in place of India and you have a better idea in the neighbouring context]

On top of that, there is one truly crucial determinant that Russia bears in mind – it is India that is Russia’s Special Privileged Strategic Partner, not Pakistan. This imperative of Russian foreign policy has existed for decades and is certain to be in place in the aftermath of current developments.

That is why Moscow is going to be extremely careful about cooperating with Islamabad – especially in the fields that might bother New Delhi. And Russia hopes for a reciprocal approach when it concerns the interaction between India and the US. Otherwise, an obsession with loyalty to one country at the expense of relations with another would likely bring about unintended consequences.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 28 Apr 2022 17:14

And BTW, What was Victoria Nuland doing in Ukraine in 2014? Just a tourist taking selfies?

There are no takers here for superficial BS denying US role in this conflict, Welch Babu can try elsewhere!

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 28 Apr 2022 18:31

Pratyush wrote:This brings me to my original question. Why is US so intent on destroying Russian power.

Is this objective so worth while that US is prepared to end it's long term global domination.

to add some context, The humongous distance from DC to Hawaii is half of the width of Russia. Once destabilized , the MNC's can take over the means of production and prevent Russia from joining with China in a substantial manner. They want to cut down 2 top dogs separately instead of together.

If the warmongers and its litle whelps [NATO] can defang Russia, then the US can pivot 100% to going against China, which in a way should be good for us. The problem is that these cowards will use India and Russia for destabilizing China which will cause untold misery for us. They will use the last indian to take on china . So hell no.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 28 Apr 2022 18:51

This line of thinking is getting ridiculous. So you think China is sitting there all innocent and pretty, and it is the US which has been provoking them to attack us in Doklam, Galwan, Uttarakhand, Siang, Depsang, Chumar and all other places? China is busy scoring a self-goal now with zero covid and playing to the grand delusions of a small minded leader. Once they are done with this episode, they will be back to their usual meddling, island building and salami slicing. In what way will the US use us to take on China that is incrementally more than what we would do to safeguard our own territory?

Back to the Ukraine question, Russia is a spent force with a rapidly dwindling population. Honestly it is better for them to integrate with Europe. They are large enough that they can maintain their own identity like the other biggies do. They hardly have an enviable standard of living that they will lose. Oh Putin doesn't like gay people, and as part of EU they have to embrace diversity - that is probably the biggest concession they need to make.

bala · Post by **bala** » 28 Apr 2022 19:46

That is no excuse for the absolute destruction Russia has been raining on Ukraine.

...
That is no excuse for the absolute destruction US Deep State has been raining on Iraq.
That is no excuse for the absolute destruction US Deep State has been raining on Afghanistan.
That is no excuse for the absolute destruction US Deep State has been raining on Syria.

So many conclusions when you are perched on the Upper Rung of Morality and preach with Arrogance.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 28 Apr 2022 20:30

yensoy wrote:US has a nasty habit of deposing legitimate governments around the world and then wondering when things don't go according to their "plan".

Having said that, I think Putin and Russia have revealed their weakness here. If the US could depose a government in Ukraine without outright violence, the Russians should have also been able to do so given their proximity and levers. This should have been settled through intrigue and influence rather than war in Russia's favour. The war only proves that Russia wields close to zero real influence in world matters, which is sad for such a big and historic world power, today a shell of its former self.

I agree about the intrigue bit. Surely there were so many people in Ukraine who favour(ed) Russia outright.

I’ve also been arguing for a while that this direct conflict will ultimately prove to be deleterious for Russia. However I still see it as a great power given time - I’d even saythat this decline is previous centuries of Russian ‘rise and fall’ history working itself out in a new world and new format. Russia tends to go through the ‘down’ periods but somehow manages to come back.

And yes, we should be screaming out loud that this is a white man's war and we honestly don't care a damn which way it goes. Last time we unwillingly participated in one (WW-2), we lost men, our economy tanked and a massive famine was thrust on us killing millions. And our sacrifices aren't remembered by those saved by our men.

My response is OT but this is the best description of Indian participation in WWII from an Indian pov. And I’ve read a ton. Only change I’d make is substitute the word ‘thrust’ for a stronger ‘engineered’.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 28 Apr 2022 21:03

Finally some Western voices are beginning to see the sheer impracticality of "pumping heavy weapons into Ukraine to defeat Russia". Everything in here is, of course, familiar information and common sense to readers of BRF.

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/04/can ... unt-on-it/
Can Western Tanks, Artillery, And Missiles Save Ukraine? Don’t Count On It.
Daniel Davis

On one level, it is completely understandable that Zelensky would aggressively seek heavy weapons for his forces. But combat fundamentals aren’t impressed by emotions, the rightness of one’s cause, or how earnestly one side may desire a given outcome. If heavy weapons are inserted into the war zone piecemeal, sent to the front lines as they come in, they will add only marginal capacity to the units engaged at the front.

More importantly, it will be many weeks or months before meaningful volumes of heavy weapons could be delivered to Ukrainian combat units. Choosing to train new combat units from scratch, out of contact, would give Ukraine a better chance at producing a battle force of sufficient strength that it would have a chance to expel Russian forces, but doing so would take, in all likelihood, nine months to a year from now – and its not clear Ukrainian troops currently under fire could hold the line that long.

The ugly bottom line is this: the Battle of Donbas is almost certainly going to be won or lost with the forces engaging on the front lines today, using the equipment they have. It will take too long for Western governments to come up with a coherent equipping plan and then prepare, ship, and deliver the kit to its destination in a timeframe that could provide Kyiv’s troops the ability to tip the balance against Russia in the Donbas.

In other words, "pumping advanced weaponry into Ukraine" is simply a windfall for US arms manufacturers at taxpayer expense that will have no bearing on the outcome of the war.

Also a familiar lesson here for India: always be equipped and at the ready with everything you need to win a war. Don't count on anything anyone may or may not supply after the balloon goes up. Therefore, indigenize your defence needs. But of course, this will fall as always on deaf ears.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 28 Apr 2022 21:19

Poland has been itching to play dirty in Ukraine for since ever. The number of polish fighters in Ukr was reported by Russia at around 1700, way more than anyone else. They've announced massive military exercises in the north east, bordering Ukr, ByloR and Kaliningrad. They may have designs to grab parts of western Ukraine as Ukraine inevitably goes down in the coming weeks. Polish troops are perhaps outnumbered by foreign troops stationed there these days.

Russian Head of Mil Intelligence warned Poland against adventurism.

Poland (along with Bulgaria) refused to pay for gas in roubles via Gazprombank, so Russia turned the taps off as a warning for their announced mil exercises, Poles are getting a trickle of gas from Germany now. Doesn't seem to dissuade their monkey itch to scratch its bottom with a Russian matchstick.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 28 Apr 2022 21:23

^^ isn’t winter coming to an end in Europe? Do they need the gas for industry ? Having said that it’s still cold here in dupli city

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 28 Apr 2022 21:26

Yes, for most of northern Europe (roughly alps upwards) you can turn off heating totally only for 3 max 4 months a year, June-Sept. Plus gas runs many industries.

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Apr 2022 21:31

Cyrano wrote:And BTW, What was Victoria Nuland doing in Ukraine in 2014? Just a tourist taking selfies?

There are no takers here for superficial BS denying US role in this conflict, Welch Babu can try elsewhere!

Nulands exploits in getting rid of the old guard and installing the comedian has been documented quite well in some earlier posts , esp relating to the maidan square episodes., the Uke American embassy was the epicentre for all that events happened., all again known in great detail

skumar · Post by **skumar** » 28 Apr 2022 21:59

GeorgeWelch wrote: ....
So the US which has practically no presence in Ukraine was able to pull off a coup right under the noses of Russia, which has deep ties with Ukraine, impressive.

Even taking this nonsense at face value, so what? That is no excuse for the absolute destruction Russia has been raining on Ukraine.

That is completely disingenuous. While it is understood that you are trying to defend western actions, at least let us stay in the realm of reality. Your comments are better off on NYT or WaPo.

What next?

There is no excuse for Russia raining destruction on Ukraine but is it false that Ukraine failed its own Russian speaking citizenry?
Is it false that Russian was banned in schools?
Is it false that 14k mostly Russian speaking Ukrainians were killed after 2014?
Is it false that a Ukrainian President said that Russian speaking children will be living in caves?
Is it false that Ukraine failed to honour Minsk 1/2 agreements?
Is it false that gangs who proudly identify themselves as Nazis were integrated into the Ukrainian Armed Forces by Zelenskyy thereby spreading the cancer? If true, will you lamely defend that Zelenskyy himself is a Jew.
Is it false that Bandera was conferred the Hero of Ukraine medal before it was revoked?
Is it false that Zelenskyy conferred Hero of Ukraine medal on Dmytro Kotsyubaylo, a leader of the fascists?
Is it false that Putin refused a request from the DPR and LPR to integrate them?

There is no excuse for any country raining destruction on any other sovereign country though it has happened at least 20 times in the last 20 years. Many excuses were given and deemed to be accepted.

Russia may have orchestrated regime changes in India, so I am no fan of Russia either.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 28 Apr 2022 22:40

Welch ji has perhaps not come across this: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html

Reminds me of how Zidane in the 2006 football World Cup was insulted and provoked repeatedly until he lost his patience and head butted Materazzi. All these sanctions on Russia are like Zidane's send off. But that wasn't the end of the French team, was it ?

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 28 Apr 2022 23:39

Cyrano wrote:Poland has been itching to play dirty in Ukraine for since ever. The number of polish fighters in Ukr was reported by Russia at around 1700, way more than anyone else. They've announced massive military exercises in the north east, bordering Ukr, ByloR and Kaliningrad. They may have designs to grab parts of western Ukraine as Ukraine inevitably goes down in the coming weeks. Polish troops are perhaps outnumbered by foreign troops stationed there these days.
Russian Head of Mil Intelligence warned Poland against adventurism.
Poland (along with Bulgaria) refused to pay for gas in roubles via Gazprombank, so Russia turned the taps off as a warning for their announced mil exercises, Poles are getting a trickle of gas from Germany now. Doesn't seem to dissuade their monkey itch to scratch its bottom with a Russian matchstick.

Those Polish officers that were in the military before the changes (of 1989) came were all members of the communist party. That was the Nomenklatura. All spoke Russian and spent time training with the Red Army. I am sure that the Russians are quite well informed about what is going on in Poland and continue to have plenty of assets. If you go by history, the Polish government will play with both sides at the same time. Neither the Germans nor the Poles have a high opinion of Ukraine. They may go along with the sanctions to be on the good side of USA.
Gautam

skumar · Post by **skumar** » 28 Apr 2022 23:40

Cyrano wrote:Welch ji has perhaps not come across this: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html

Reminds me of how Zidane in the 2006 football World Cup was insulted and provoked repeatedly until he lost his patience and head butted Materazzi. All these sanctions on Russia are like Zidane's send off. But that wasn't the end of the French team, was it ?

No worries, I think Welsh ji is just pretending to be sleeping

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 28 Apr 2022 23:45

Rudradev wrote:Finally some Western voices are beginning to see the sheer impracticality of "pumping heavy weapons into Ukraine to defeat Russia". Everything in here is, of course, familiar information and common sense to readers of BRF.

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/04/can ... unt-on-it/
Can Western Tanks, Artillery, And Missiles Save Ukraine? Don’t Count On It.
Daniel Davis

...

In other words, "pumping advanced weaponry into Ukraine" is simply a windfall for US arms manufacturers at taxpayer expense that will have no bearing on the outcome of the war.

And what a windfall it is!

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/2 ... n-00028552

RUSSIA’S WAR ON UKRAINE

White House sends Congress $33B request for Ukraine
The package is by far the largest single funding proposal of the war.

Remember: not one nut, bolt, or sprocket of this equipment will be of any military use to Ukrainian armed forces until they train up on it and incorporate it into their battle operations... meaning, at the very minimum one year after delivery (IF they have the reserves and the facilities to train active-duty military servicemen on new equipment while also committing necessary resources to fighting a defensive war).

But much of that $33 Billion going into the right pockets will find its way back to the Democrats as campaign contributions for this November's elections. Which is what really matters, anyway.

skumar · Post by **skumar** » 29 Apr 2022 00:20

Rudradev wrote:
Rudradev wrote: ...

In other words, "pumping advanced weaponry into Ukraine" is simply a windfall for US arms manufacturers at taxpayer expense that will have no bearing on the outcome of the war.

And what a windfall it is!

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/2 ... n-00028552
..

When the war ends is up for grabs but we are finally coming to the "business" end of this war.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Apr 2022 00:29

If a lot of arms are sent to UKR, a potential problem could be that there are not enough arms for other theaters

yogeshkumar · Post by **yogeshkumar** » 29 Apr 2022 01:00

Every party in this conflict (it's really a conflict between US/EU and Russia. Ukraine is just the pawn in this game) has mis-calculated and gone nuts.. in very Bizarre ways.

- US: They have literally thrown all sanctions that they could think of at Russia. Weaponized Dollar, Federal Reserves. Stolen Russians' personal property. Calling Russia names that only juveniles do in high school. (aka - genocide, war crimes, state sponsor of terrorism, evil and so on). They stooped even lower than that by banning Russians flights, banning Russians from sending money to their family back in Russia from US. And list goes on . Its a very long list. Now they have no other sanctions left in their kitty to throw at Russia. Now they are forced to burn 10-15 billion dollars every month or so.. just to keep their puppet government in Ukraine floating. Today Biden asked for another $33 Billions to keep this war going.

- EU: if there is a bigger fool than US, it is EU. EU politicians have proven what many suspected all along. They are just stooges of US deep state. Not only they have matched 95% of sanctions that US imposed, whats weird is that US doesn't really get impacted by these sanctions that much. But EU suffers more by every sanction it imposes on Russia. Even Russia doesn't hurt by these sanctions as much as EU does.
Like US, EU's sanction kitty is almost all empty. They can throw Oil/Gas sanctions at Russia. But that will hurt EU and its citizens, more than it will hurt Russia or Russians.

- Ukraine's Government: they have literally made their population as cannon fodder for US/EU elites. In the end, Ukraine will be logically two separate entities. Western Ukraine and Eastern Ukraine. And lot of death and destruction while getting there to that final outcome. Couldn't they have gone there from the initial get go? War is a disaster for Ukraine and more so for its population who have to suffer for corruption of their government.

- Russia: two major flaws in their war strategy.
a) they can't make up their mind as to how ruthlessly this war should be fought. They went in softly. Assuming Ukrainians will support them in Kiev. That didn't happen. Then they were like Deer looking in headlight. Couldn't think about next steps. Their next logical step should have been to bomb all transit infrastructure of Ukraine. All of it in west so that no more weapon supplies could come in from west. But apart from some token strikes, nothing sort of shock and awe required to paralyze a country that you are fighting against in a war.
So seems like Putin and his inner circle believe they will be able to normalize relations with US/EU after the war. So they are still going very softly. Very bad move. US/EU's ego is hurt very badly here. They have been grooming Ukraine for 20+ years.. investing dozens of billions of dollars over 20+ years in Ukraine's defense.

b) Offensive military hardware vs Defensive military hardware and planning. Russia's offensive hardware turned out to be fairly decent, as you would expect in a hostile environment. But their defensive hardware and planning (Radars, Jamming, scoping, taking out enemy planes, or enemy missiles and so on) seems to be below par. You can see that when enemy strikes facilities deep inside Russia. Takes out Moskva or landing ship in Azov sea. Just too many gaps and holes in their defense and/or planning.

Real War is hell. And this is a real war.

bala · Post by **bala** » 29 Apr 2022 01:11

It quite fashionable to raise money for any crisis all the while pretending to be on the right side of the moral equation. But the sad fact is when Govt is involved the hapless taxpayer is shafted with such moronic decisions. DJ Trump remarked that "the politician is least bothered with costs". Charity money raised is another scam. Billy boy Clinton's Haitian relief turned out to be a mirage with very little going to the Haitians needing the money. Back at home, the Mother Theresa charity funds, 93% went back to vatican, rest were admin costs and <1% went to actual charity. I wonder how much Ukr relief money raised by companies is actually going to Ukr. The US is probably having a "Goodwill Giveaway" of old stock weapons rotting in warehouses, similar to how people in US get rid of their household junk. But $33B is too much to swallow, I am sure the money will end up somewhere else.

kit · Post by **kit** » 29 Apr 2022 02:25

It does kind of grate when western countries lecture India on oil import from Russia

John · Post by **John** » 29 Apr 2022 03:58

kit wrote:

It does kind of grate when western countries lecture India on oil import from Russia

That’s from 2019 and Prior to 2021 Mar no one lectured us on purchasing Russian oil, it was Iranian oil that drew criticism.

Najunamar · Post by **Najunamar** » 29 Apr 2022 04:24

But Johnji, even per latest data Germany is largest importer of Russian energy and India is scraping the bottom at #20, so if you are looking for a fig leaf search harder...

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 29 Apr 2022 04:34

John wrote:That’s from 2019 and Prior to 2021 Mar no one lectured us on purchasing Russian oil, it was Iranian oil that drew criticism.

I wonder what this chart will look like by the end of this year? Will China and India make Russian oil a dramatically bigger chunk of their total imports? If Russian prices are competitive enough, I don't see why India, China and some of the other big oil importers shouldn't take advantage of the situation. We called the bluff on US sanctions; the US overplayed its hand in trying to bully us into dropping Russian oil - now we see they need us more than we need them. The US is now realizing they can't sanction everyone and will only hasten the demise of the petrodollar (and the demise of their global financial hegemony in general), so why shouldn't we increase the % of our total oil imports that comes from Russia? Buy less from MidEast and elsewhere; buy more from Russia instead.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 29 Apr 2022 04:38

Kanan

My worry is what arm twisting the West will do. In matters of defence if one ball is held by the Russians the other is held by the yanks.

I hope the realisation has dawned on the Armed forces that they are less effective as a tool of state policy if we r a net importer of defence hardware.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Apr 2022 05:29

kit wrote: It does kind of grate when western countries lecture India on oil import from Russia

IMO, the lecture is not about oil - those lecturing are fully aware of such stats. It is about:

1) To a lesser extent about an alternative to the US Dollar as a base currency. Here India is - per their view - the weakest link in the chain that could break the petro-dollar's grip. After all Japan still has her Shakalin energy project going - and wonder how those payments will be resolved (USD/Rubbles). And, of course, the evolving intra-EU confusion on who will get RU O&G vs. who will pay for RU O&G in Rubbles via the Gazprombank (which accepts in Euros, sells them on the Russian exchange for Rubbles and deposits the Rubbles in a Rubbles account, ....) In short pays for RU O&G in Rubbles (and of course when The Russians sell the Euro they control the exchange rates)

I am sure it will get more complex AND India will slide out of the limelight (I think GoI has instructed oil companies to look into buying the share of Western oil companies that are selling)(that - if true - should be a great indicator of what these lectures mean in India)

2) Far more importantly, this was (since it happened a week or two ago) a lecture to let India who has been claiming a "pole" in the NEW Multipolar World Order know who is the boss. From what I can see, India gamed this and was prepared for it - even with a very, very fluid situation. Starting with the very icy presser after the 2+2 (watching human rights!!!) to responses to reporters and at the Raisina dialog responses to two Minister from two EU nations. Not to mention the stream of dignitaries to ND and zoom calls by Aussie PM + US prez. And, of course Daleep Singh and Nuland.

I think the US has tabled that for another day - it has not gone away. After Putin or perhaps after Putin -> Xi, then India. Some form of punitive actions against India are on the horizon - that I am very certain is the plan (Nuland does not give up so easily). But, I doubt this proxy war will end soon and my feeling is that nations other than the US/UK and UKR will need India more than ever - actually adding to Indian claims of a pole in a multipolar world order

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Apr 2022 06:42

Well .............................

Here we go.

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/stat ... 9657530368

Russian Embassy, UK wrote: FM #Lavrov: Russian Armed Forces will view Western weapons as legitimate target during #specialmilitaryoperation. They have already targeted warehouses, incl in western Ukraine. How can it be otherwise? #NATO has de facto entered into a proxy war with #Russia by arming its proxy.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Apr 2022 06:51

@Andy_Scollick’s racist and now deleted tweet

why would we forget punks like him

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 29 Apr 2022 07:55

U.S. Congress revives World War Two-era "Lend-Lease" program for Ukraine

The U.S. House of Representatives overwhelmingly backed legislation on Thursday that will make it easier to export military equipment to Ukraine, reviving the "Lend-Lease Act" that helped defeat Hitler during World War Two.

The House passed the "Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022" by 417 to 10, three weeks after it sailed through the Senate with unanimous support. It next goes to the White House for President Joe Biden to sign into law.
...
Among other provisions, the bill would allow the United States to provide equipment to Ukraine now, with just a technical requirement to pay at some later date (and Ukies will pay back with a loss of sovereignty, if they haven't already), essentially giving it to the Kyiv government.

Najunamar · Post by **Najunamar** » 29 Apr 2022 08:02

And thus the next WW begins...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Apr 2022 09:29

ks_sachin wrote:Kanan

My worry is what arm twisting the West will do. In matters of defence if one ball is held by the Russians the other is held by the yanks.

I hope the realisation has dawned on the Armed forces that they are less effective as a tool of state policy if we r a net importer of defence hardware.

They can arm-twist only if we buy their weapons.
Rest all can be managed.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Apr 2022 10:26

Europe has bought $46 billion worth of Russian energy since the Ukraine war began

Russian revenues from fossil fuel exports to the European Union soared during the first two months of the Ukraine invasion, despite some buyers shunning Russian energy and finding alternative suppliers, a report by the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA) shows.

European Union imports of Russian fossil fuels accounted for 44 billion euros ($46.3 billion) from February 24, the day Russia launched its invasion, to April 24. That's more than double the value of Russian energy imported by EU states during the same two-month period last year, CREA lead analyst Lauri Myllyvirta told CNN.

....

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 29 Apr 2022 10:51

From the lend lease bill:

(3) CONDITION.—Any loan or lease of defense articles to the Government of Ukraine under paragraph (1) shall be subject to all applicable laws concerning the return of and reimbursement and repayment for defense articles loan or leased to foreign governments.

While Ukraine thinks it's a free gift which its obviously not, what Europe doesn't realise is that there may not be a (sizeable) Ukraine left to return/reimburse/repay, and by accelerating Ukraine's entry into the EU they will inherit this debt and end up paying for it based on the very solidarity principle they can't stop parroting.

Wah re Massa !

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 29 Apr 2022 10:57

EU is filling it's reserves to the brim before taking on Russia in a direct conflict which explains the spike. Expect purchases to drop back to seasonal levels soon. EU reserves may last a few weeks at peak winter usage, couple of months at low summer usage.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 29 Apr 2022 11:03

They are expecting to meet the next winters requirements from Arab nations. But Saudi Arabia has already refused to increase production.