Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Amit Patel » 04 Mar 2015 21:43

ISIS is the best thing to happen in middle east. The amount of green on green cleanup and internally displaced people leading to slowing of green population growth rate. They are also driving a deep wedge between sunni and other green sects.
If and when ISIS reaches Indian shore ... we must think of ways to eliminate them.
Currently Pk army, BD illegals and cheeni vested interests are clear and present danger, not ignoring the internal fabric of green ideology within India.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby shiv » 04 Mar 2015 21:59

When LeT was banned, they changed their name to jamaat ud dawa.

ISIS is simply a name for yet another Sunni terrorist organization. To that extent ISIS is already in India in all but name. No point imagining that some new islamic terror is yet to come to India. We have had it longer than anyone else. Only sickularism and Western Universalist buddhi would make one imagine that there is only gentle peace now and that some terrible "misguided Muslims" called ISIS may come in future. Does anyone seriously imagine that a Sunni terrorist groups that makes bombs in India or shoots up people in Kashmir is somehow gentler and more civilized than ISIS and we have to wait some more time before we crap in our langotis?

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby SBajwa » 05 Mar 2015 02:15

ISIS=SIMI=LET=JUD=DEOBAND=WAHABI and so forth!! We need to worry about our area and try to do

Hurt the economy of the ISIS i.e Do not buy oil from the ISIS (even if it is very cheap). That way Baghdadi will only be controlling the fanatic suicide squads which sooner or later will wither.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby harbans » 05 Mar 2015 03:17

He reminded that 120 Islamic scholars sent congratulatory letters to ISIS leader Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi. Indian cleric Syed Salman Husaini Nadwi was among them.


http://www.newindianexpress.com/columns ... 694781.ece

As IS becomes more established and eliminates unbelievers and hypocrites it obviously will gain much more open traction.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Amit Patel » 05 Mar 2015 13:55

I agree with you Shiv, what I meant was the ISIS brand. While other brands with the same taste are already available in India.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Tuan » 24 Mar 2015 06:28

Some interesting read on the ongoing fight against ISIS:

Why ISIS Is Increasingly Using Kids As 'Cubs Of The Caliphate'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mia-bloom ... 03638.html

After Tikrit - Thanks to the war on ISIS, Iran is expanding its foothold in eastern Iraq
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ ... ter-tikrit

Is quietist Salafism the antidote to ISIS? (Part I, Part II and Part III)
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/markaz/p ... st-salafis
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/markaz/p ... rts-part-2
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/markaz/p ... wagemakers

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Karan Dixit » 24 Mar 2015 07:30

India's hands are busy fighting Pakistan supported terrorist groups that operate in India. If the "international community" wants India's help in fighting ISIS, they will have to first stop helping Pakistan and then help India fight Pakistan supported terrorist groups so that India finally will be free to join in the fight against ISIS.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby A_Gupta » 25 Mar 2015 16:38

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/syr ... 67516.html

Jakarta: Indonesian militants believed to have returned from fighting with the Islamic State (IS) group in Syria are suspected of being behind an attempted chlorine bomb attack in a shopping mall last month, police said Wednesday.

The homemade device -- made up of several bottles and a detonator -- was discovered in the mall south of Jakarta after it failed to go off properly. Police said it was the first such attack ever attempted in Indonesia.

National Police Inspector General, Tito Karnavian, said the use of the chlorine resembled tactics employed by IS jihadists, who have taken over a vast swathe of territory in Syria and Iraq.

"It really surprised us," said the former commander of the police`s elite counter-terror unit.

"This is a signature of ISIS," he added, referring to the jihadists by an alternative name. "It is connected to a group likely already returned from Syria."

He said police were pursuing "very good leads" into the bomb attempt but would not reveal further details. Exposure to chlorine gas causes intense irritation to the eyes, skin and airways, and can be deadly.

IS has been accused of using chlorine, notably in a January 23 car bomb attack on Kurdish forces in Iraq. The Syrian regime has also been accused of carrying out chlorine gas attacks.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby RajeshA » 25 Mar 2015 17:21

I find ISIS problematic for 3 reasons:

1) Some Indian Muslim youngsters have decided to pursue their higher education with ISIS and upon their return their way of doing things may not gel well with Indian ways.

2) The atrocities on women, especially the Yazidi women

3) Their destruction of the pre-Islamic and even post-Islamic cultural artifacts in West Asia

There are however many pros of ISIS.

1) The moderate Muslim, a creation of the West, has more difficulty defending Islam in front of his Western audience. It is opening the doors for criticizing Islam directly. The burqa is falling!

2) It is allowing groups in Pakistan to vow allegiance to an Islamic group which the ISI does not have under its thumb, and as such Paki establishment may genuinely feel threatened.

3) USA, West and Gulf have their attention devoted to Iraq and Syria, and thus Pakistan is having a harder time getting its message across to them that it would shoot itself in the head if Pakis do not receive some chanda. One can hope that less dollars would flow Pakistan's way. Even India's Jappads to Pakistan and Pakistani wailing would go unnoticed. {Hope Modi reads this!}

4) ISIS allows Hindus to tell other faded-Hindus, what the true face of Islam is, and what our ancestors faced. Otherwise we may remain a frog enjoying a hot-water bath. But too bad, it is not being covered sufficiently by the MSM.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby harbans » 25 Mar 2015 18:21

Rajesh ji, all valid points. What i like is the way their scholars have the relevant hadith ready and defend their positions. Same was done by the TTP after the shooting in Peshawar. They know what they are doing. In todays whatsapp, youtube age the violence and gore that was hidden of yore is getting exposed. The big problem in tackling the ideology which is obviously the source of inspiration is the PC/ so called moderate brigade that keeps insisting without understanding/logic/ reason that they are twisting the ideology. This prevents millions from knowing the truth and delays a primary way of tackling this problem that by tackling the ideology and weaning believers from categorically accepting many of those tenets. At some point of time the world has to deal with the ideology of Islam directly vis a vis unbelievers. There is no way to wriggle out of this i see.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Mar 2015 21:15

IMO, "ISIS" is an invention of certain interested parties, exactly like "Al Qaeda". The name hides something else. In the case of "Al Qaeda" we were told that there was such a tight-knit, top-down organization led brilliantly from a cave under Tora Bora, Afghanistan, by the aging Sheikh Osama Bin Laden, who was then on a dialysis machine (with able assistance from HeyMan Al Zuwahiri, MD).

It turned out to be nothing more than an amorphous scattering of suicidal imbeciles, prompted by (who else) the US-trained, US-financed, US-protected Pakistani Military and the Saudi Sheikhs whom they served. With Bin Laden pest-e-sha'eeded, and Zuwahiri probably dead of old age, the "Taliban" are as powerful as they were before November 2001. They are in fact more powerful than they were in 1992 when they overran Kabul.

If there is a real name for Taliban/Al Qaeda, it has always been "PAKISTAN ARMY OF ISLAMIC TERRORISTS" or "goat-b***ers" for short.

Now this "isiS" The ONE thing that they most definitely are NOT.. is a STATE. So use whatever expansion you want for that last S. Scum, yes, S***s, yes, but "State" is not it. So why are they called "STATE"? Who calls them that? These are also US-trained, US-equipped, Saudi-funded, Turkish/NATO-supplied, probably Pakistani-organized.

Their function appears to be to keep the US and UK and NATO and Pakistani Defense Budgets up and civil liberties down.

So 'obliterating' this non-existent 'State' is not going to happen, and the effort is not going to achieve anything. The serious people (i.e., the Iranian-backed Shias and the Kurds) are fighting for their lives and those of their tribes, but the rest are just twiddling their thumbs and doing the occasional air sorties to convey an impression of activity.

Perhaps we should rename this dhaga the "US-NATO-Saudi I*is Tamasha"

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby vishvak » 25 Mar 2015 23:19

ISIS have attacked an airport in Syria. Canada, of all NATO states, will attack ISIS in Syria.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby harbans » 26 Mar 2015 01:10

Batori Ji, want to clarify on this very respectfully:

IMO, "ISIS" is an invention of certain interested parties


IS is not an invention. And into your post you mention US etc.

It turned out to be nothing more than an amorphous scattering of suicidal imbeciles, prompted by (who else) the US-trained, US-financed, US-protected Pakistani Military and the Saudi Sheikhs whom they served.


This is blatant untruth. IS is just a name yes. Boko Haram another yes. Al Qaeda another Yes...and so on. Yet these are not inventions of the US as much as LTTE or Babar Khalsa is an Indian invention. Let us not distort the Truth. These kind of groups have been around for ages even before the US appeared. Jews have been more heavily targeted and massacred before Israel came into being. IS is real. It symbolizes exactly the same caliphate that many including Gandhi supported. Islamic law is not some just, merciful but cruel to Adharmic kind of affair. It is a Dharmic killer.

Let us not trivialize Islamic terror by attributing it to present geopolitic conditions. I have been severely affected by Nehruvian economics. I don't pick up arms and rape and kill. Yet with Islamic Ghazis this has been a recurring feature. Let us not please tolerate more of this USA/ Israel/ India is responsible for Boko, IS, LeT, LTTE. Let us smash these groups to smithereens..and to do so sadly we must look into the ideology that has inspired them 1500 years. No way out of this. Sincerely apologize because i do look for ways i can leave the idology part away..just cannot. IT is that which inspires them to mayhem..rest are excuses.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Tuan » 26 Mar 2015 01:16

vishvak wrote:ISIS have attacked an airport in Syria. Canada, of all NATO states, will attack ISIS in Syria.


The Canadian Prime Minister Harper is asking the support of the parliament to extend and expand Canada’s military mission one more year particularly targeting Syria. However the opposition parties, both New Democrats and Liberals, are opposing this and suggesting that Canada should involve in humanitarian missions, such as helping to solve the refugee crisis and other aid work in Iraq and Syria.

IMHO, the opposition parties’ idea does have a long term strategic advantage and we could benefit from it down the road. First we have to isolate the insurgents/terrorists from the general populace. Let the refugees come out and settle them in other countries thereby showcasing the soft power of Canada/NATO rather than PM Harper’s hard power strategy which is bombing Iraq and Syria. By weeding the insurgents out of legitimate refugees, we can eventually apply Mao Tse Tung’s theory that “insurgents are like fish in an ocean of people”. By separating the “ocean” of general populace from the insurgent “fish” we will be able to determine the survival of the enemy insurgents/terrorists.

The following report is a clear evident how badly the insurgents want to block aid inside the conflict zone.

Both Islamic State group, Syria government slow down aid: UN
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mid ... story.html

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Multatuli » 26 Mar 2015 11:02

In addition to the points mentioned by Rajesh A:

There is also going to be a blow-back that will effect Turkey (a so called moderate state: here also the burqa comes down!), Jordan and the EU among others.

The existence of IS is a catalyst for the jihadization of Muslims everywhere and as such a welcome development. Turkey, Jordan and the EU need more Islam!

The IS is an open wound in the Islamic world and I hope it will stay for years to come.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby RajeshA » 26 Mar 2015 13:37

The creation of nation-states in Middle East meant a sort of 80% ceasefire between the Sunni and Shi'a. Rise of Islamic State in Iraq meant that Iran has to come out of its comfort zone and intervene. Same thing in Yemen. The Houthi Militia too has opened a front in Yemen. The GCC has decided to pound the militia as well. So Iran gets to fight Sunnis in Iraq and GCC gets to fight Shi'a in Yemen.

The war between Sunni and Shi'a in Iran has now officially started.

What this means is that bargaining power of external powers has dramatically increased. Sunnis and Shi'a in a state of quasi-peace meant the rise of Islamism. Sunnis at war with Iran means the rise of Islamic Sectarianism.

All non-Muslim countries would now be getting increased leverage in Middle East. Just see the Qatari Emir running to India making big promises of investments! Why? Just so that India does not decide to lean towards the Shi'a.

Not to forget India, Sri Lanka have large number of workers in the Gulf, and GCC doesn't want them creating any problems at the incitement of Iranians.

What we need to take care is that the Sunni-Shi'a tension does not leap into India to an extent that it creates violence. However this is going to prod many Shi'a in India to also choose BJP at the polls.

So there are lots of wheels turning, and I am sure that USA has had some hand in moving those wheels.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Multatuli » 26 Mar 2015 13:41

Shiv wrote:

Now why is it that you are so hung up on ISIS? I put it to you that your are overly influenced by a western view that totally fails to see the Indian viewpoint and fail to understand that we have been facing a threat far greater than ISIS for over 60 years. You could well be sitting in America or Europe exposed to a totally biased American viewpoint with little exposure to what it looks like in India.

For ISIS to come to India they have to motivate and recruit Indian Muslims. Guess what Pakistan has been trying for 67 years?

For ISIS to come to Pakistan, they either have to make Pakistan anti-west or they have to join Pakistan in hitting India. If they do the former I would welcome it. if they do the latter it would make no difference to India. ISIS with nukes==Pakistan army.

If, by magic, ISIS decided to attack India alone and not the west, the "International community" would not give a flying fuk about ISIS or India. The west never worried about Pakistan or LeT. They worry about ISIS because their balls are on fire and you are trying to infect us with a western tinted version of reality

I believe you do not have a good enough grasp of what Sunni Islam is doing. hence it took that article you posted to open your eyes about one franchise of Sunni Islam. ISIS is just one of Ravana's 10 heads.



So true. The longer the war is Syria and Iraq continues, the more Sunni jihadi's it will spawn. And those jihadi's do not consider India as their prime target. Unable to win either in Syria or Iraq, many of these frustrated jihadi's will turn against Turkey, the Sunni dominated Arab gulf states, North Africa and Europe to wreak havoc there. Many Tunisians are fighting in Syria, when they return home, Tunisia will go through the same turmoil that Algeria experienced after the jihadi's returned from Afghanistan, the same could happen in other North African countries, causing an influx of refugees into Europe. What better outcome could I wish for?

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby A_Gupta » 28 Mar 2015 18:22

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 727580.cms
KUALA LUMPUR: The Malaysian chapter of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's Art of Living has received threatening letters from the Islamic State terror group, a close aide of the spiritual leader claimed on Saturday.

"Sri Sri Ravi Shankar is touring some countries in the far east and he landed in Malaysia yesterday and few days ago while he was in Cambodia, we received threat letters from ISIS, one was received by the hotel manager, one was received by the director of Art of Living and one by senior faculty and the content of the letter is very threatening saying if you go ahead with the programme there will be consequences," said Nakul, an aide of Ravi Shankar.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby schinnas » 29 Mar 2015 23:07

There was a silent sit-in by several hundred Art of Living volunteers today at the Bengaluru Townhall expressing solidarity with Sri Sri and condemning ISIS for spreading violence from 6pm to 8pm. They held placards such as "Love Moves the World", "One world family" and atleast one of the speakers advised ISIS to attend AOL courses and get transformed. There was one prominent local muslim leader also who spoke briefly condemning ISIS. This is a first hand account.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby chetak » 30 Mar 2015 02:26

from twitter


Nadia AbuShaban @NadiaAbuShaban · Mar 24

photojournalist took this photo 4 Syrian child, thought he has a weapon not a camera so she Gave up ! #Surrended

Image

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby UlanBatori » 30 Mar 2015 03:11

Harbansji, understand your sentiments. But some of us have memories. The 'Al QAEDA' NAME is an invention of the US. Please see some of the history that was dug up by patient research on this, rather than by believing the sacred truth spouted by CNN. If you want to learn the real name(s) of these organizations, see there, please.

You are of course free to disagree completely with the conclusions, but the conclusions there are based on facts dug up by others, some risking their lives to speak out.
What is now called 'ISIS' is evil. But ignoring how they were created is not a recipe for avoiding such horrors in future. One should not forget history.

Do you really believe the cra* spouted by the US and NATO and Saudis that they cannot find and kill the people who sponsor ISIS or ISIL? Why do they have so many banking laws? Every bank is now forced to reveal pretty-much every transaction. How can they claim then that OIL is sold daily for $$M by the ISIS, coolly operating REFINERIES? Oil costs, let's say, $42/barrel when sold by entities under embargo (why would anyone buy from the ISIS when they can safely buy on the open market for $55/barrel?) That's $1 per gallon. So $1M/day means at least 1 MILLION GALLONS per day being shipped.

How is this oil transported? By ships? Under the noses of the US and Saudi and NATO Navies? Under their space-based optical assets? The NRO and MI-6 cannot see this? Where do those ships dock? LLoyd's does not know who owns these ships? How is the oil transported to the next destination? These governments cannot find and stop THIS?

(Many bridges over the Ulan Bataar river, going cheap-cheap - Put down ur deposit now to avoid disappointment..)

How does it happen that the ISIS is operating M-1 tanks and HumVees? These cannot be rendered inop in short order? They gave these away with no provision for disabling them if captured by the enemy? You believe this?

The images and reports on the ISIS horrors are guaranteed to not let any of us sleep. But let's not pretend to sleep to avoid the responsibility to think and speak out, hain? The Islamist mofos are now, as always, funded, armed, trained and protected from annihilation by the same people as always. So I stand by what I posted. If you have clear facts based on painstaking research, please post them and I will read them.

If the US/NATO are serious about stopping Islamic atrocities, they should start by disarming and neutering Saudi Arabia and taking over Mecca & Medina. Wipe out the funding sources for Wahabi terror first.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Tuvaluan » 30 Mar 2015 05:19

UlanBatori wrote:That's $1 per gallon. So $1M/day means at least 1 MILLION GALLONS per day being shipped.


The US has learnt its lessons from Iran-contra affair, and this is a more refined version of the same
with complete deniability. ISIS starts its own bank, and the same mofos in NATO and US who pretend to be keeping track of all transactions above 5000$ a day are now not really interested in ISIS's million $ a day transaction being funnelled under their very noses. "Al Qaeda" is short for the database of name of the same ISI oiseaules the US was working with in Pakistan/Afghanisthan, like Hamid Gul, and this "al qaeda" magically manages to keep "Bin Laden" hidden until the point he was killed, and then the US thinks nothing of the very entity that was hiding their "arch enemy". And the mofos in the US are of course, the vanguards of human rights, freedom and democracy on this planet...if only I had the sense to invest in the fantastic bridges of Tuvalu a few decades ago..

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Y. Kanan » 30 Mar 2015 06:40

Tuan wrote:As the whole world is coming forward to combat ISIS, I would like to share here my opinion regarding how to fight ISIS and eventually obliterate them just like the Sri Lankan military defeated the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) just six years ago.

ISIS, as an offshoot of Al Qaeda, continues to commit atrocities against humanity in Iraq, Syria and now into Libya. Unless this fast spreading violence and hatred is stopped, the carnage will most likely expand throughout the Middle East and Asia in the near future.

In reading Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) in the ongoing counterterrorism operations in Iraq, Syria and Libya, I have noticed a pattern, in the Islamic State terrorists’ “modus operandi”, that of a spider.

Spiders have eight legs and two body parts - a head region (cephalothorax) and an abdomen. Most spiders have toxic venom, which they use to kill their prey.

So if the international community wants to get rid of ISIS, hypothetically speaking, they have to get rid of the head region of ISIS, the “cephalothorax” of the spider, instead of fighting with its eight legs.

Of course, they will replace it with another head, so get rid of the other one too, then the next one and so on. All we need is accurate and effective tactical military intelligence collection. I feel that the international intelligence agencies have a bigger role to play, than just being the eyes and ears of any nation, with feet of clay, when faced with an enemy of many different faces. Recommendations for an appropriate tradecraft to achieve such a role are the need of the day. There is NO truth to search for, there is no absolute truth, and everything is subjective! But the kind of role intelligence play in deterrence is what paramount! And achieving A STATE OF GLOBAL DETERRENCE is what I consider the bottom line.

In conclusion, since Al Qaeda, Taliban, and now ISIS are using exactly the same modus operandi and tradecraft as the LTTE did in Sri Lanka, I believe that the international community could combat ISIS in a similar model that Sri Lankan military did against the LTTE in order to obliterate them.


I'm a hell of a lot more worried about the terror-sponsoring govts on our west and east borders. ISIS is a problem for the Middle East; let them kill each other. Pakistan and Bangladesh, on the other hand, are sitting right here next to us, with nothing but poorly monitored borders to keep their jihadists at bay.

And by the way, comparing ISIS to LTTE is in very poor taste. That's just equal-equal nonsense; LTTE was never anything like ISIS.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Y. Kanan » 30 Mar 2015 06:48

ChandraV wrote:Of course, oil prices will be fcuked due to all this, and it will cause pain in India and China. Maybe its all for the greater good - we'll move towards an Ethanol economy then.


I'm surprised people are still pushing ethanol. Do some research on the energy-in\energy-out equation for ethanol. And do the same for hydrogen while you're at it.

If you're looking for alternatives to oil, converting all vehicles to CNG would actually make more sense. Hell even electric cars would make more sense.

Anyway this is off topic, sorry.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby UlanBatori » 30 Mar 2015 07:14

ISIS== Taliban== Pakiban. They are **NOT** a "State". They are not interested in liberating their own people, not trying to save their own homeland. Just a bunch of mercenary goons. Exactly the same deal as the Pakiban.

I don't know of any population that has welcome them to take over their village. Come in and kill their neighbors and allow them to rob and rape and enslave and sell their neighbors, yes, but not really to govern and build in the long term.

Their "support base" population of Sunnis is facing 'revenge' tribal massacres in Mosul and Tikrit once those fall, but I don't think the ISIS gives a pakistan about that one way or another. In fact they may enjoy hearing the screams and watching the fires burn.

Yes, any LTTE analogies are very misplaced, whatever one may think of the LTTE's actions.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby devesh » 30 Mar 2015 08:37

^^^
Your definition of State is different from the Jihadi definition of State. but either way, this bickering or hair-splitting on "state" or "Not" state is ultimately useless. it has no bearing on the Jihadi mindset. Just useful to distract non-muslims to confusion and indecision.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Vikas » 30 Mar 2015 15:50

Seems like Yazidi minority has dropped off the conscience of the world and has been replaced by KSA-Yeman feud.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Atri » 30 Mar 2015 17:49

ISIS no different from the mullah in my lane preaching bile day in and day out. That is real ISIS. No need to worry about iraqi and syrian yahoos beheading people on video camera when you have deshi mullahs doing the same to RSS pracharaks in kerala, bengal and other places like Bhivandi, Mumbai.

ISIS-FAYSIS.. :| :| :roll: :roll:

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby RamaY » 30 Mar 2015 18:48

devesh wrote:^^^
Your definition of State is different from the Jihadi definition of State. but either way, this bickering or hair-splitting on "state" or "Not" state is ultimately useless. it has no bearing on the Jihadi mindset. Just useful to distract non-muslims to confusion and indecision.


It makes a difference sir. There is no "state" in Islamic state; all it has is only "Islam"

One wonders what does we mean by "obliterating" Islamic State.

If we want to obliterate only Islamic "states" then we need to obliterate Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran etc for all these are Islamic "states".

Or are we talking about "Islamic" states? If that is the case we are definitely going to obliterate Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran along with the micro Islamic states in India in JK, Hyderabad, Kerala, Mumbai, UP, Bihar, WB, TN, Kataka etc.,

Somehow the title of this thread doesnt sound right.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Multatuli » 09 Apr 2015 19:12

French media groups hold emergency meeting in wake of Isis hacking attack

French culture minister calls urgent meeting after television network TV5Monde was taken over by individuals claiming to belong to Islamic State

Quote 1:

The French culture minister has called an urgent meeting of media groups to assess their vulnerability to hacking after the television network TV5Monde was taken over by individuals claiming to belong to Islamic State, blacking out broadcasts and hacking its websites and Facebook page.

Visiting the network’s headquarters in Paris after the attack, Fleur Pellerin said she would bring together all heads of big French TV companies as well as newspaper groups and the news agency Agence France-Presse within 24 hours “to assure myself of their vulnerable points, any risks that exist and the best way to deal with it”.

Quote 2:

More than 1,500 French nationals have joined the militants’ ranks, where they represent almost half the number of European fighters present, according to a report released on Wednesday by the French senate.

TV5Monde, which calls itself the “worldwide French cultural channel”, broadcasts programmes produced in France, Belgium, Switzerland and Canada, as well as movies, news and other programmes. It is broadcast in more than 200 countries worldwide.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/a ... is-hackers

Tuan
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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Tuan » 25 Apr 2015 08:18

A different perspective on the war on terror. Scahill hits the nail on the head by explaining how ISIS came to be, which has nothing to do with radical Islam:
http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/TV%20Show ... 665323910/

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Altair » 25 Apr 2015 09:45

ISIS will strike a major blow to India in coming years and will also strike Pakistan more so on Shiites.There will be equal equal in MSM about how Pakistan are equally affected by terrorism like India.
There is no silver bullet to tackle this abomination but to prepare ourselves to fight a long drawn battle perhaps for a decade. We must augment our Internal and external security apparatus which includes not just major weapon platforms but in smaller platforms like killer drones for targeted assassinations, ability to take down a mini-truck or a van.
Also there is a need to control Indian Mujahideen from recruiting people locally.This is easier said than done. Greater internal surveillance is needed but I don't want us to turn into a police state like US.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Tuan » 29 Apr 2015 04:21


shiv
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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby shiv » 29 Apr 2015 05:14

Altair wrote:ISIS will strike a major blow to India in coming years and will also strike Pakistan more so on Shiites.

For ISIS to strike a major blow they would need a nearby base. That would be Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Myanmar or Sri Lanka. As we have seen - the source point for terrorist groups in all these places has always been Pakistan.

The other possibility is recruitment of Indians - which once again is a model based out of Pakistan. ISIS will have to do something really new to exceed what the Paki army and their testicle holders like LeT have done.

ISIS is an Islamic terror group. The Pakistan army is an Islamic terror group. Pakistan has faced terrorism from Islamic terror group based in Pakistan. India faces terror from Islamic terror groups based in Pakistan

Exactly what is different or more deadly about ISIS? We are already in a long drawn out battle with groups that are exactly the same as ISIS but better armed and better trained. All anxieties about ISIS, Taliban etc are sparked from western media because the west is being attacked by them The Paki army is not attacking the west so they are seen as benign. It would be a mistake for us to swallow this western viewpoint and adopt it as our own,

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Karthik S » 29 Apr 2015 06:21

shiv wrote:
Altair wrote:ISIS will strike a major blow to India in coming years and will also strike Pakistan more so on Shiites.

For ISIS to strike a major blow they would need a nearby base. That would be Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Myanmar or Sri Lanka. As we have seen - the source point for terrorist groups in all these places has always been Pakistan.

The other possibility is recruitment of Indians - which once again is a model based out of Pakistan. ISIS will have to do something really new to exceed what the Paki army and their testicle holders like LeT have done.

ISIS is an Islamic terror group. The Pakistan army is an Islamic terror group. Pakistan has faced terrorism from Islamic terror group based in Pakistan. India faces terror from Islamic terror groups based in Pakistan

Exactly what is different or more deadly about ISIS? We are already in a long drawn out battle with groups that are exactly the same as ISIS but better armed and better trained. All anxieties about ISIS, Taliban etc are sparked from western media because the west is being attacked by them The Paki army is not attacking the west so they are seen as benign. It would be a mistake for us to swallow this western viewpoint and adopt it as our own,


The main difference between the paki based group and the ISIS I think is that the later once/if it reaches our border will openly attack India like an all out war, the way it carries out its business in the middle east. But the Paki based groups haven't done that.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Tuvaluan » 29 Apr 2015 06:29

Any paki terrorist tool can pull up a black flag and pretend to be ISIS and you will be none the wiser. It would best to stop pretending that there are various shades of terrorists emanating from pakistan. The only strains that will any interest in attacking India will be those commanded and funded by the paki army and government -- it does not matter if it is called ISIS, KUNDI or LeT or whatever. Time to get a clue and not get distracted by nomenclature and looker deeper at where these groups are coming from and who is behind them. All these groups change their names at the drop a lungi, as we have seen Let grow new face that called itself JuD or the myriad other terrorist groups that changed names once they were added to silly global list of banned terrorist groups.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby shiv » 29 Apr 2015 06:56

Karthik S wrote:
The main difference between the paki based group and the ISIS I think is that the later once/if it reaches our border will openly attack India like an all out war, the way it carries out its business in the middle east. But the Paki based groups haven't done that.

Sir you are making a prediction about the future while you have forgotten the past. You only imagine that ISIS will openly declare war wwhich Pakis have not done. I am deeply upset that I have spent over a decade on BRF to hear people make posts such as yours.

Pakistan attacked us in 1948
They attacked again in 1965
Then again in 1971
Through the 80s they supported terrorism by harbouring Khalistani terrorists
Kargil in 1999
through the 90s and all the way up to 2012-13 they have supported terrorist acts in India

How can you come up with the ridiculous idea that India has not been attacked directly? I think you have simply not brushed up your history. When "all out war" failed despite the power of the Paki army they resorted to ISIS like tactics.

India will kick ISISs ass all the way back to jannat if they attack directly. They are hardly a threat. the Pakistan army and all groups that it supports are a threat. ISIS can attack directly ONLY if they have direct Paki army support.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Tuan » 29 Apr 2015 07:21

Here's What the Social Science Says About Countering Violent Extremism
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-atr ... 42604.html

This post is adapted from an address in the UN Security Council's Ministerial Debate on "The Role of Youth in Countering Violent Extremism and Promoting Peace."

I am an anthropologist. Anthropologists, as a group, study the diversity of human cultures to understand our commonalities and differences, and to use the knowledge of what is common to us all to help us bridge our differences. My research aims to help reduce violence between peoples, by first trying to understand thoughts and behaviors as different from my own as any I can imagine: such as suicide actions that kill masses of people innocent of direct harm to others. The key, as Margaret Mead taught me long ago, when I worked as her assistant at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, was to empathize with people, without always sympathizing: to participate in their lives to the extent you feel is morally possible. And then report.

I've spent much time observing, interviewing and carrying out systematic studies among people on six continents who are drawn to violent action for a group and its cause. Most recently with colleagues last month in Kirkuk, Iraq among young men who had killed for ISIS, and with young adults in the banlieus of Paris and barrios of Barcelona who seek to join it.

With some insights from social science research, I will try to outline a few conditions that may help move such youth from taking the path of violent extremism.

But first, who are these young people? None of the ISIS fighters we interviewed in Iraq had more than primary school education, some had wives and young children. When asked "what is Islam?" they answered "my life." They knew nothing of the Quran or Hadith, or of the early caliphs Omar and Othman, but had learned of Islam from Al Qaeda and ISIS propaganda, teaching that Muslims like them were targeted for elimination unless they first eliminated the impure. This isn't an outlandish proposition in their lived circumstances: as they told of growing up after the fall of Saddam Hussein in a hellish world of constant guerrilla war, family deaths and dislocation, and of not being even able to go out of their homes or temporary shelters for months on end.

In Europe and elsewhere in the Muslim diaspora the recruitment pattern is different: about 3 out of every 4 people who join Al Qaeda or ISIS do so through friends, most of the rest through family or fellow travelers in search of a meaningful path in life. It is rare, though, that parents are ever aware that their children desire to join the movement: in diaspora homes, Muslim parents are reluctant to talk about the failings of foreign policy and ISIS, whereas their children often want desperately to understand.

Most foreign volunteers and supporters fall within the mid-ranges of what social scientists call "the normal distribution" in terms of psychological attributes like empathy, compassion, idealism, and wanting mostly to help rather than hurt other people. They are mostly youth in transitional stages in their lives: students, immigrants, between jobs or mates, having left or about to leave their native family and looking for a new family of friends and fellow travelers with whom they can find significance. Most have had no traditional religious education, and are often "born again" into a socially tight, ideologically narrow but world-spanning sense of religious mission. Indeed, it is when those who do practice religious ritual are expelled from the mosque for expressing radical political beliefs, that the move to violence is most likely.

Last summer, an ICM poll revealed that more than 1 in 4 French youth -- of all creeds -- between the ages of 18 and 24 have a favorable attitude towards ISIS; and in Barcelona just this month 5 of 11 captured ISIS sympathizers who planned to blow up parts of the city were recent atheist or Christian converts. The unholy alliance of narrow xenophobic nationalism and militant jihad, which play off one another's fears, are beginning to destabilize the European middle class much as fascism and communism did in the 1920s and 30s, while inciting willingness to sacrifice among both nationalist xenophobes and militant jihadis. By contrast, our own research shows that even among native Western youth, ideals of liberal democracy no longer elicit willingness to make costly sacrifices for their defense.

Europe has a birth rate of 1.4 per couple, which means that without massive immigration it cannot sustain a viable middle class upon which every successful democratic society depends. Yet, Europe is arguably further from effectively dealing with problems of immigration than ever before. As one young woman from the Paris banlieu of Clichy-sur-Bois told us, she like so many others she hangs out with, feels neither French nor Arab, and because she will always be looked on suspiciously, she will choose the Caliphate to help create a homeland where Muslims can pool their resources, be strong again, and live in dignity.

But the popular notion of a "clash of civilizations" between Islam and the West is woefully misleading. Violent extremism represents not the resurgence of traditional cultures, but their collapse, as young people unmoored from millennial traditions flail about in search of a social identity that gives personal significance and glory. This is the dark side of globalization. They radicalize to find a firm identity in a flattened world: where vertical lines of communication between the generations are replaced by horizontal peer-to-peer attachments that can span the globe. Young people whose grandparents were Stone Age animists in Sulawesi, far removed from the Arab world, told me they dream of fighting in Iraq or Palestine in defense of Islam.

Although typically viewed in military terms, Al Qaeda, ISIS and related groups pose the greatest threat as the world's most dynamic countercultural movement, one whose values run counter to the nation-state system represented here in the United Nations, and to its Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It has drawn youth from many places into the largest, most potent extraterritorial fighting force since WWII. And just as it took more than a decade for Al Qaeda to mature into a global menace, it may be many years before we see the full effect of ISIS, even if it is kicked out of its current territorial base.

Unless we understand these powerful cultural forces, we will fail to address the threat. When, as now, the focus is on military solutions and police interdiction, matters have already gone way too far. If that focus remains, we lose the coming generation.

So what might be done?

Foremost, continue your important work on problems of development, and on immigration and integration, with a goal to transform the much-lamented "youth bulge" into a "youth boom" by unleashing youth's inherent energy and idealism.

Let me propose three conditions that I believe young people need, with brief illustrations. But each country will have to create and mobilize these conditions, suited to its own circumstances.

1. The first condition: Offer youth something that makes them dream of a life of significance through struggle and sacrifice in comradeship.

That is what ISIS offers. According to Idaraat at-Tawahoush ("The Management of Savagery"), the manifesto of the Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia and now ISIS, a global media plan should compel youth to "fly to the regions which we manage ... [For] the youth of the nation are closer to the innate nature [of humans] on account of the rebelliousness within them, which... the inert Islamic groups [only try to suppress]."

When I hear another tired appeal to "moderate Islam," usually from much older folk, I ask: Are you kidding? Don't any of you have teenage children? When did "moderate" anything have wide appeal for youth yearning for adventure, glory, and significance?

Ask yourselves: What dreams may come from most current government policies that offer little beyond promises of comfort and security? Young people will NOT choose to sacrifice everything, including their lives -- the totality of their self-interests -- just for material rewards. In fact, research shows that offering material rewards or punishments may only push truly "Devoted Actors" to greater extremes.

Research also shows that the greatest predictor of willingness to sacrifice is joining comrades in a sacred cause, which gives them a sense of special destiny and the will to fight. That is what enablesinitially low-power insurgent and revolutionary groups to resist and often prevail against materially more powerful foes who depend on material incentives, such as armies and police that rely mainly on pay and promotion rather than heartfelt duty to defend the nation. Sacred values must be fought with other sacred values, or by sundering the social networks in which those values are embedded.

2. The second condition: Offer youth a positive personal dream, with a concrete chance of realization.

The appeal of Al Qaeda or ISIS is not about jihadi websites, which are mostly blather and bombast, although they can be an initial attractor. It's about what comes after. There are nearly 50,000 Twitter hashtags supporting ISIS, with an average of some 1000 followers each. They succeed by providing opportunities for personal engagement, where people have an audience with whom they can share and refine their grievances, hopes and desires. In contrast, government digital "outreach" programs typically provide generic religious and ideological "counter-narratives," seemingly deaf to the personal circumstances of their audiences. They cannot create the intimate social networks that dreamers need.

Moreover, counter-narrative messaging is mostly negative: "So DAESH wants to build a future, well is beheading a future you want, or someone controlling details of your diet and dress?"

Can anyone not know that already? Does it really matter to those drawn to the cause despite, or even because of, such things? As one teenage girl from a Chicago suburb retorted to FBI agents who stopped her from flying to Syria: "Well, what about the barrel bombings that kill thousands? Maybe if the beheading helps to stop that." And for some, strict obedience provides freedom from uncertainty about what a good person is to do.

Besides, once you are convinced of the mission's moral virtue, then spectacular violence is not a turn off, but sublime and empowering as Edmund Burke noted about the French Revolution, which introduced the modern notion of Terror as emergency defense of radical political change.

And make no mistake, few if any of those who join militant jihad, or xenophobic nationalisms for that matter, are nihilists. That is an accusation leveled by those who wishfully refuse to consider the moral appeal, and hence real danger, of such movements. Being willing to die to kill others requires a deep conviction of moral virtue.

In Singapore last week, some speaking for Western governments argued that the Caliphate is mythology, covering traditional power politics. Research with those drawn to the cause show that this is a dangerous misconception. The Caliphate has re-emerged as a mobilizing cause in the minds of many Muslims. As one imam in Barcelona told us: "I am against the violence of Al Qaeda and ISIS, but they have put our predicament in Europe and elsewhere on the map. Before, we were just ignored. And the Caliphate.... We dream of it like the Jews long dreamed of Zion. Maybe it can be a federation, like the European Union, of Muslim peoples. The Caliphate is here, in our hearts, even if we don't know what real form it will finally take."

Without recognizing these passions, we risk fanning them.

And any serious engagement must be attuned to individuals and their networks, not to mass marketing of repetitive messages. Young people empathize with each other; they generally don't lecture at one another. From Syria, a young woman messages another:

"I know how hard it is to leave behind the mother and father you love, and not tell them until you are here, that you will always love them but that you were put on this earth to do more than be with or honor your parents. I know this will probably be the hardest thing you may ever have to do, but let me help you explain it to yourself and to them."
3. A third condition: Offer youth the chance to create their own local initiatives.

Social science researchshows that local initiatives, begun with small-scale involvement, are better than national and large-scale programs in reducing violence. It doesn't matter which government agencies you want to help facilitate this. Let youth engage youth in the search for meaningful ways to make sense of the issues on their personal agenda, whether that be about oppression and political marginalization, lack of economic opportunity, the trauma of exposure to violence, or problems of identity and social exclusion. And most of all support personal engagement, through mutual support and community-based mentors - because it is almost always a particular personal circumstance, shared with friends, that radical extremism probes for, draws out, and tries to universalize into moral outrage and violent action.

Consider this:

At just 16, Gulalai Ismail, and her sister Saba, set up the Seeds of Peace network with a group of school friends to change the lives of young women in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, NW Pakistan. They began by focusing on women's place in society, and as their membership has grown, they are now training young activists to become local peace builders, challenging violence and extremism. They trained 25 young people in each of the last two years to join together to promote tolerance, non-violence and peace. The initiative is proving so popular that last year they had over 150 applicants.
The 50 trained young volunteers are now, in turn, reaching out to people in their communities who are vulnerable to radicalization. They hold study circles and one-to-one meetings with these people to develop and promote ideas for a peaceful future. Still in its early stages, the program will reach almost 1,500 young people in the next three years, growing a movement of activists against religious and political extremism. The results are a lot more remarkable, but Gulalai Ismail will not claim them publicly.
Imagine a global archipelago of such peace builders: If you can find concrete ways to help and empower them without trying too hard to control, they could well win the future.

In sum, what is most important is quality time and sustained follow-up of young people with young people, who understand that motivational factors can vary greatly with context despite commonalities -- be it for a young father from Kirkuk, a teenage girl from Paris, neighborhood friends from Tetuan, Morocco, or high school soccer buddies from Fredrikstad, Norway. It takes a dynamic movement that is at once intimately personal and global -- involving not just entrepreneurial ideas, but also physical activity, music and entertainment -- to counter the growing global counterculture of violent extremism.

Last edited by Tuan on 29 Apr 2015 07:36, edited 2 times in total.

Karthik S
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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Karthik S » 29 Apr 2015 07:23

shiv wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
The main difference between the paki based group and the ISIS I think is that the later once/if it reaches our border will openly attack India like an all out war, the way it carries out its business in the middle east. But the Paki based groups haven't done that.

Sir you are making a prediction about the future while you have forgotten the past. You only imagine that ISIS will openly declare war wwhich Pakis have not done. I am deeply upset that I have spent over a decade on BRF to hear people make posts such as yours.

Pakistan attacked us in 1948
They attacked again in 1965
Then again in 1971
Through the 80s they supported terrorism by harbouring Khalistani terrorists
Kargil in 1999
through the 90s and all the way up to 2012-13 they have supported terrorist acts in India

How can you come up with the ridiculous idea that India has not been attacked directly? I think you have simply not brushed up your history. When "all out war" failed despite the power of the Paki army they resorted to ISIS like tactics.

India will kick ISISs ass all the way back to jannat if they attack directly. They are hardly a threat. the Pakistan army and all groups that it supports are a threat. ISIS can attack directly ONLY if they have direct Paki army support.


Points taken. But I meant that the terrorist groups have not attacked India directly and I was NOT referring to the Pakistani military. Also, ISIS is not a Paki group and for this I assume it will not work with or listen to paki establishment on its operations against India. So if ISIS does attack from Paki soil, then the problem will be that we have to deal with Pak as ISIS will be operating from their territory. This will bring us to the same situation as the 26/11.

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Re: Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)

Postby Tuvaluan » 29 Apr 2015 07:29

Karthik S wrote:So if ISIS does attack from Paki soil, then the problem will be that we have to deal with Pak as ISIS will be operating from their territory.


If the Paki army controls pakistan, how will ISIS attack India from Paki soil without the support of the Paki army? I fail to see the basis for assuming that ISIS or any other group can operate from Paki soil and attack India without the blessing of the Paki army? All these millions of paki threads are clearly completely useless if the basic points of the threads are not making it through to BRF readers.

ISIS is not a Paki group and for this I assume it will not work with or listen to paki establishment on its operations against India.


Seriously, do you really think the paki army will sit around and have any terrorist group set a precedent of ignoring them? Come on, now. Have you really been reading the paki threads that you are actually making such statements? sheesh, man. Anyone who has followed the violent politics of these terrorist groups knows that the paki army keeps a firm grip on the family jewels of each and every terrorist group operating in Pakistan, and use violence against anyone not falling in line. This is all well known.


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