Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

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krishna_krishna
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby krishna_krishna » 31 Oct 2017 09:08

X- post from Internal security Dhaka:

REPORTS Christian missionary meets Jashodaben to “heal her”, Hindu groups are busy being stupid

http://www.opindia.com/2015/02/christia ... undancies/

JE Menon
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JE Menon » 31 Oct 2017 18:20

Something current:

https://www.christianpost.com/news/indi ... ch-202005/

India Cuts Off Foreign Aid to KP Yohannan's Believers Church

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JE Menon » 23 Nov 2017 17:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cogXgsqrPKo

An interview with the Archbishop of Gandhinagar Diocese following the leak of his letter to the bishops of India. The interviewer does a fairly good job, though he can do better. A sly snake, this fellow is pushed on the question of what he is referring to when he talks of violence, and he brings up some instance in Orissa in 2008...

The full letter is here:

http://www.financialexpress.com/electio ... ss/944927/

Will
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Will » 24 Nov 2017 22:37

Lol seriously? There's even a thread like this? Before the majority starts pointing fingers maybe they should look at what's wrong within their own religion.

Mod Note:

Everything else you wrote has been deleted. And yes, this thread will continue to talk about the topic in question and it's none of your business to tell anyone what to talk about.

Do NOT come here telling people what they can or cannot talk about. Next time you get a formal warning or ban.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Avtar Singh » 25 Nov 2017 03:58

This is a great thread, it shows how far India/Hindus have come and holds the future prospect of a Hindu India. An avowed and openly declared Hindu country... Just like there are so many christian and muslim countries out there. All lands stolen from non christians and non muslims.

When this forum first started 20 years ago pakistanis would come on here to laugh at Indians/Hindus. They were ignored and anyone posting stupid links from pak forums were shutdown... Now pakistan is rapidly receding in Indias rear view mirror..***

All lurkers on here anti Hindu types, the list is so long cannot name them individually, please mark my words.. Your time and days are numbered and it would be easier if you just got with the program. A new generation is coming up in India and those old methods of invaders/imperialists... divide and conquer WILL NOT WORK. Including deploying self loathing sepoys.

This new, getting richer and more educated India will be proud of its Hindu heritage. Also unlike invaders and imperialists the Hindu conscience and history is clear, all others have blood dripping from their hands over many milenia.

Too much history to list here but people are more aware of the past and crimes of sundry religious groups and entities then any time in history. The internet will truly outdo the printing press in undermining the power of these groups.. HA HA

Back to my point***
Now India is chasing down china a little increase in manufacturing capabilities
and it will quickly catch up.

There is a thread on here taking a look at the horrid innards of a decaying superpower a thought unimaginable 20 years ago when this forum first started. USA USA USA. What a disappointing country it is post cold war.......one may even say a laughing stock.

A few others that India/Hindus will dispatch into the dustbin of history...

Vatican, many many additional Hindus will soon have risen to power/money/education and will openly mock this institution and all it represents.
A fews day back there was a program on the bbc covering Ireland once a bastion of catholicism. Catholic church has been decimated in ireland, much thanks to the cathiolic proclivity for kiddy fiddling. HA HA, what horrid people.
Also I was strolling down Brickell, MIA and saw all these hispanics with Tilaka..
HA HA what a bunch of losers the desperation is palpable.. What do they say... Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.



USCIRF, this too will be dealt with, more and more Hinuds will understand this so call impartial institution as the USCI RC.... RELIGIOUS CONVERSIONS. You will be laughed at/mocked in India

The bbc did a series of programs on India and not once did they mention their favourite word wrt India; CASTE, They are learning HA HA, how times change.

As for those self loathing sepoys working for NYT, barking dogs at WAPO...
more and more educated and wealthier Hindus will understand what you are about. You better start changing your tune.. Also it is normally the poor/working class who are most proud of their national identity.. there are many 100s of millions about to be lifted and they will have no time for NYT/WAPO/american sepoy bile.

The piece de resistance of this whole process.. It will happen without any violence a smooth transition into a new Hindu era for India.

All an outcome of what Hindus do best; education, work, business and making money. Watch and weep you Hindu hating slime balls out there I look forward to seeing your demise over the next 20 years... Especially self loathing/ slave mentality sepoys.

Ps I am not even religious or a Hindu!!

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 25 Nov 2017 05:49

Avtar, please start a thread "The Great Time of Reckoning" to explore the vision and ethics of a resurgent heathen/ Hindu/Sikh/Buddhist/Jain+-Parsi India.

Is there a Hindu privilege such as White privilege or Muslim privilege? Should there be? Hindu society has been horizontally as well as vertical fragmented-ethnicity, caste but with near-pan India Sanskrit, dharma, scripts, familial structures, social codes etc making for a civilisational balance.

Should Muslims volunteer to seek out the Dar es Islaam, in Pakistan, Saudia etc. Does India owe them anything? Other than Pakistan?

Is this the road to Ram Rajya or Pakistan/Taliban? Can those who would leave their Hindu country men to burn in hell be entitled to Hindu charity?

One problem I see in all this is that Hindus have not traditionally aggregated grace or salvation as their peculiar right, so as strikingly opposed to the desert cults. Once Hindus do this, do they fall to the level of the Bedouin? or the Pakistani? or the Vatican?

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby periaswamy » 27 Nov 2017 07:40

sanjaykumar:One problem I see in all this is that Hindus have not traditionally aggregated grace or salvation as their peculiar right, so as strikingly opposed to the desert cults. Once Hindus do this, do they fall to the level of the Bedouin? or the Pakistani? or the Vatican?


So are you saying that religion is not political? Islam and Christianity make no excuses when they explicitly seek political powers over a populace, so why raise the bar for hinduism because "it is too civilized to be a political"?

Such a notion can only ensure that hindus never consolidate politically, right up to the last hindu. I am not a religious person but this kind of nonsense that demands different standards for hindus than other religions seems highly dubious.

The notion that only the uncivilized barbarians and "desert religions" have the right consolidate politically to defend and further their cults at the expense of other cultures and religions (yes, this is a zero-sum game) .... but hinduism is "sophisiticated" and so it must die silently and quietly in a corner in the interests of being highly civilized.

I don't think reality works that way, because ultimately, religions are political movements once they are organized as a group (As opposed to being a personal preference). At this point in time, christianity and islam are intent on wiping out local cultures and religions to the point of extinction, and there will be resistance to such an agenda.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby periaswamy » 27 Nov 2017 07:53

pope not invited as head of state and will not visit India

About time too. This genocidal cult pretending to be a nation-state -- a religious cult that came up with the highly-acclaimed "spanish inquisition", "dark ages", and other fantastic acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing. Now, the cult's leader owns a country smaller than Banasankari in Bangalore, Kerala, can pretend he is some sort of head of nation-state and get invited as a "head of state" all over the world.

Note that "Thomas McEvan" has been active in trying to get the pope to India...fascinating how these guys will spit on your face with vicious intent and still have the gonads to ask favors from you at the same time. These same guys have been spreading vile rumours about the Modi government burning churches and whatnot ever since this regime came to power, and they have the gall to say this too.

Archbishop Thomas Macwan, the Archdiocese of Gandhinagar, said, “Of course, I’d be joyous if the Pope came to the country, but it is a decision to be taken by the government. Perhaps, the dates were not suitable for the government. But I’m confident the government will take a decision soon.” Incidentally, Assembly elections are scheduled to be held in Gujarat starting December 9.


After screaming vile lies about hindus and Indians, these scumbags have the gall to pretend that a pope's visit will counter the image of India that these same people have created.

The Archbishop of Nagpur, Abraham Viruthakulangara, said it would have been in the fitness of things if the Pope had come and that “it would have been a great boost for the country’s image in the world”.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby A Nandy » 27 Nov 2017 08:08

As an Indian, it hurts that the Pope will not be coming here. I hope it hurts all Indians, too.


Out comes the genocidal desires. Except no army or east india company anymore to back this bs up.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 27 Nov 2017 23:48

Why would a Christian e left this to hurt all Indians? Where is this sense of entitlement coming?

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby arun » 06 Dec 2017 08:33

X Posted from the Rohingya Menance thread to the Islamism thread and the Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact thread.

periaswamy wrote:Arab oiseule in charge of UN "human rights" council wants to book myanmar for genocide

Isn't it just precious that the genocidal arab nations that have wiped out every non muslim minority groups to extinction in their own territories (and in others) now want to go after myanmar for "genocide". China will veto any such move, so these arab nations can go eff themselves.



Meanwhile Modern Tokyo Times reports that birds of the Abrahamic feather gather together to do down the Indic’s be they in Myanmar or in the Chittagong Hill Tracts of Bangladesh.

Article from Modern Tokyo Times titled “Pope and the Muslim card: Pity the Buddhists and Hindus of the Chittagong Hill Tracts and Rakhine”:

The current Pope is out of touch with many Europeans who fear Sunni Islamization in parts of many major cities. At the same time, growing Sunni Islamic terrorism is killing people in several European nations and vast numbers of people from the Sunni Muslim faith are being monitored based on links to terrorist activities. Therefore, it was no surprise that the Pope would play the “Muslim card” in Bangladesh by siding with the Bengali Muslim narrative by stating a fake ethnic name.

On top of this, the Pope had a great chance to raise the awareness of the plight of mainly Buddhist and Hindu tribal groups of the Chittagong Hill Tracts and the indigenous Buddhists of Rakhine. However, unsurprisingly, the Pope said nothing publicly in front of the international media about mass Bengali Muslim migration to the Chittagong Hill Tracts in Bangladesh. Hence, while Islamization by stealth is happening based on the land grab by Bengali Muslims in the Chittagong Hill Tracts, it seems that the Roman Catholic Church is more concerned about appeasing Islam and playing the Sunni Islamist narrative. ………………………….


Read More:

Pope and the Muslim card: Pity the Buddhists and Hindus of the Chittagong Hill Tracts and Rakhine

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Philip » 06 Dec 2017 12:58

I hold no brief for the Pope or the Vatican,but it is a city-state and he is head of state.That he happens to also be head of the RC faithful is another matter. S'pore is another example of a similar city state. Earlier in history,the Vatican ruled over a large part of Italy called the "Papal States".During Mussolini's time ,a treaty was signed,the "Lateran Treaty" whereby the Vatican gave up its "states" in return for certain rights .Pl. remember that until he handed it over,HH the Dalai Lama was also head of Tibetan Buddhism and vested with full powers as head of state of TIbet in 1950, and we've recd. him,recognised him and treated him as such until his voluntary handing over of his temporal power in 2011!

Vatican/Holy See:
The Lateran Treaty (Italian: Patti Lateranensi; Latin: Pacta Lateranensia) was one of the Lateran Pacts of 1929 or Lateran Accords, agreements made in 1929 between the Kingdom of Italy and the Holy See, settling the "Roman Question". They are named after the Lateran Palace, where they were signed on 11 February 1929. The Italian parliament ratified them on 7 June 1929. It recognized the Vatican City State as an independent state, with the Italian government, at the time led by Prime Minister Benito Mussolini, agreeing to give the Church financial compensation for the loss of the Papal States.[1] In 1947, the Lateran Pacts were incorporated into the democratic Constitution of Italy.[2]


Dalai Lama:
Political Retirement
On 14 March 2011 His Holiness wrote to the Assembly of Tibetan People's Deputies (Tibetan Parliament-in-exile) requesting it to relieve him of his temporal authority, since according to the Charter of the Tibetans in Exile, he was technically still the head of state. He announced that he was ending the custom by which the Dalai Lamas had wielded spiritual and political authority in Tibet. He intended, he made clear, to resume the status of the first four Dalai Lamas in concerning himself only with spiritual affairs. He confirmed that the democratically elected leadership would assume complete formal responsibility for Tibetan political affairs. The formal office and household of the Dalai Lamas, the Gaden Phodrang, would henceforth only fulfil that function.


Vatican and the UN:
Confirmed status in 2004[edit]
In 2004, the UN General Assembly confirmed the Vatican's status as a Permanent Observer. Currently the Holy See has the right to participate in the general debate of the General Assembly and to intervene in the discussion of any issue inscribed in the agenda of that assembly. It has the right to participate in all meetings open to all Member States, the right to make points of order and to exercise the right of reply, the right to circulate proposals and position papers as official documents, and the right to co-sponsor draft resolutions and decisions. Commenting on its status, Archbishop Celestino Migliore, the then Holy See Permanent Observer to the United Nations, said "We have no vote because this is our choice." He added that the Holy See considers that its current status "is a fundamental step that does not close any path for the future. The Holy See has the requirements defined by the UN statute to be a member state and, if in the future it wished to be so, this resolution would not impede it from requesting it."[17]


In effect,the Vatican has even by the UN,apart from nations around the globe,is recognised as a city state,headed by the current Pope,leader of the Catholic Church.It is curious as to why the Pope was not given a head of state reception,as alleged.All earlier reports indicated that the busy schedule of PM Modi and the Pres.,made it v.difficult to find suitable dates.This is v.plausible looking back at the PM's hectic schedule over the past few months,BRICS summit in China,etc,etc.He is now heavily engaged in the Gujarat election campaign ,elections announced much earlier and therefore aspersions that it may have been a deliberate snub to the Pope appear to be politically motivated. I am sure that the PM will meet the Pope "in the fullness of time"!

Just for the record,the RC church arrived in India along with Vasco Da Gama and the Portugese,around 500+ yrs ago.Christianity arrived much earlier,around 1000 years earlier with the arrival of St.Thomas.The Syrian Christians in Kerala take their origin from him and the Orthodox Church.

Kerala-Syrian Christians:
Not to be confused with Malankara Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church.
Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church
(Indian Orthodox Church)

Saint Thomas Christians - Divisions - History in a nutshell
The Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church[2] also known as the Indian Orthodox Church[3] is an autocephalous[4][5] Oriental Orthodox church centered in the Indian state of Kerala. It is one of the churches of India's Saint Thomas Christian community, which has its origin in the evangelical activity of Thomas the Apostle in the 1st century.[6] The church is headed by the autocephalous[7] Catholicos of the East and the Malankara Metropolitan, presently Baselios Mar Thoma Paulose II.

It is believed that Saint Thomas Christians of Malabar were in communion with the Church of the East from 496 to 1599.[8] They got episcopal support from Persian bishops, who traveled to Kerala in merchant ships through the spice route, while the local leader of the Saint Thomas Christians held the rank of Archdeacon and was a hereditary office held by the Pakalomattam family. In the 16th century, the overtures of the Portuguese padroado to bring the Saint Thomas Christians into Latin Rite Catholicism led to the first of several rifts in the community by Portuguese colonialists and the establishment of the Catholic and the Malankara Church factions. Since then, further splits have occurred, and the Saint Thomas Christians are now divided into several fragments, due to western interferences. The Malankara Church is still remains as a part of Oriental Orthodoxy.


However,the alleged evangelcal conversion campaigns by such movements in India-who have close ties to firang entities,pales in comparison with the billions that have been poured in by the Wahaabi Sunnis esp. from the KSA. These entities set up under various names have many with dubious reputations and the IB has

IB vs Wahabi: The war against saudi funding
Read more at: https://www.oneindia.com/india/ib-vs-wa ... 91334.html

Dealing with Saudi funds into India: Dealing with funding from Saudi is harder when compared to the funding into other NGOs. Breaking the Saudi funds into India would mean dealing with the hawala network. It has been found that a chunk of the funds that land into India are through Kerala which probably has the highest hawala remittance. The Intelligence Bureau has identified some NGOs which have been getting funds from Saudi Arabia and Qatar and have placed them under the watch list. However the bigger focus would be on the remittance through the hawala channels, IB officials say. The IB is also keeping close tabs on those who have been visiting India from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and also Qatar. Over the years some of these hate preachers have had a free run as a result of which they have managed to set up shop. The estimated number of Wahabi preachers who visited India between 2011 and 2014 was 25,000.

Read more at: https://www.oneindia.com/india/ib-vs-wa ... 91334.html

akashganga
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby akashganga » 28 Jan 2018 19:39

Excellant criticism of catholic church and the current pope. Must watch -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmQsX6idHH4
Jimmy Dore represents extreme left wing in the USA. Though I do not always agree with all his views many of his videos are right on the dot. Please forward this one to as many as possible. cheers.

chetak
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby chetak » 15 Feb 2018 19:10

This is what the pedophilia padres wanted all along.

Confession and a punishment of three "hail marys"

and then, onward to the next "confession".




Catholic Archbishop Says Pedophilia Is ‘Spiritual Encounter With God’



Catholic Archbishop Says Pedophilia Is ‘Spiritual Encounter With God’

February 12, 2018, Baxter Dmitry, News, World 77.

A high-ranking Catholic Church archbishop says sexually abused children can experience "a spiritual encounter with God through the priest".

One of the highest-ranking officials in the Catholic Church says sexually abused children can experience “a spiritual encounter with God through the priest” while being molested.

Australia’s most powerful clergy, Archbishop of Melbourne Denis Hart, says the Catholic practice of confession is satisfactory for dealing with pedophilia in the church as it helps priests absolve “their own guilt” after sexually abusing children.


Asked whether he was prepared to be jailed for failing to report child sex abuse by Catholic pedophile priests, Archbishop Hart confirmed he was willing to serve prison time. He also claimed the right to cover for pedophiles in the church is an “absolutely sacrosanct communication of a higher order.“

He made the shocking statement in response to the Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse which stated there should be “no excuse, protection nor privilege” for Catholic clergy who failed to alert police of abuse within the church.


But Archbishop Hart disagreed and insisted that sexual abuse was “a spiritual encounter with God through the priest” and was “of a higher order” than criminal law.



A new report by the commission proposed 85 sweeping changes to the criminal justice system and recommended that priests face criminal charges for failing to report serious crimes such as sexual abuse to the police.

As the law currently stands, clergy are not legally obliged to report crimes to the police and disciplinary proceedings for criminal activity by members of the Catholic Church are handled internally by Canon law, which operates independently of the regular legal procedure.

RELATED: Judge Cuts Pedophile’s Prison Sentence Claiming 3-Year-Old Child ‘Asked To Be Raped

Following an investigation by the commission, officials believe that the Catholic Church is using “confessional confidentiality” as a cover for not reporting child sex abuse by active pedophiles to the authorities.

“We understand the significance of religious confession – in particular, the inviolability of the confessional seal to people of some faiths, particularly the Catholic faith”, said the report. “However, we heard evidence of a number of instances where disclosures of child sexual abuse were made in religious confession, by both victims and perpetrators.

“We are satisfied that confession is a forum where Catholic children have disclosed their sexual abuse and where clergy have disclosed their abusive behavior in order to deal with their own guilt.”

Asked on Tuesday if he would rather go to prison than breach the seal of confession, he told ABC Radio Melbourne:

“I’ve said that I would. I believe that this is an absolutely sacrosanct communication of a higher order.”


Baxter Dmitry
Baxter Dmitry is a writer at Your News Wire. He covers politics, business and entertainment. Speaking truth to power since he learned to talk, Baxter has travelled in over 80 countries and won arguments in every single one. Live without fear.
Email: baxter@yournewswire.com
Follow: @baxter_dmitry

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Muns » 22 Feb 2018 08:33

Hi folks, we did a piece on the Koli fisherman of Mumbai. Interesting to note that many Koli fisherman who were previously Adivasi and Hindu seemed to have on mass converted to becoming Catholic. The Koli being interviewed states that this seems to have happen from the top.

Once the local leader of the Koli got converted to Christianity the rest of the community converted after him. Brings to mind the saying from the gospel, where Jesus states “come with me and I will make you fishers of men”.

In my mind I wouldn’t doubt if a primary conversion target are these poor fishermen whose lives are increasingly becoming difficult to sustain, for various reasons.

In any case please take a look at the clip and subscribe and share. Any feedback let me know here or on the site.

A Sea of uncertainty for the Koli fisherman of Mumbai

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoARV-ANv90&t=1s

Channel ;

https://m.youtube.com/c/indiaaware

http://www.india-aware.com

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby nvishal » 22 Feb 2018 14:46

^ Few koli communities in mumbai area converted during the Portuguese rule. They are sometimes called "east Indian Christians". This community is now dying. Some have converted to goans. Some have converted to regular koli(similar to agri marathi). Others have just left the community. The Mumbai Christians are overpowered and swamped by Christians from Karnataka and Goa. It's very hard to find a Mumbai Christian these days. Their churches have been taken over by outsiders and the community feels vulnerable.

Regular kolis(ekveera koli) are the majority. You can find them all across Maharashtra. They have cultural similarities with agri marathi and even inter-marry with them.




Muns
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Muns » 23 Feb 2018 12:38

nvishal wrote:^ Few koli communities in mumbai area converted during the Portuguese rule. They are sometimes called "east Indian Christians". This community is now dying. Some have converted to goans. Some have converted to regular koli(similar to agri marathi). Others have just left the community. The Mumbai Christians are overpowered and swamped by Christians from Karnataka and Goa. It's very hard to find a Mumbai Christian these days. Their churches have been taken over by outsiders and the community feels vulnerable.

Regular kolis(ekveera koli) are the majority. You can find them all across Maharashtra. They have cultural similarities with agri marathi and even inter-marry with them.


Thanks Nvishal for the gyan, glad to hear Koli community are still largely Hindu. Had to look up Ekvira Mata and for benefit who have not really come across the name themselves. Wiki link ;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekvira

Would she then be a local aspect of Parvati then?

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby nvishal » 23 Feb 2018 14:56

They are nature worshipers. The mountains and oceans are their god and they have a name for them. They identify themselves as tribal hindus in offical documents.

Back in the day, when some kolis converted to Christianity, they would still worship Ekvira. The catholic Church tried it's best to remove Ekvira out of the koli Christians imagination but failed. They then placed the statue of mother Mary in place of Ekvira and called it Ekvira. This worked about okay(for a while) before the information age. Once the cat was out of the bag, the koli Christian community got divided. One side gave up all its local practices and embraced a full western lifestyle(english, bread, baking cake and wine) but in the process, ended up being swamped by goans and karnataka christians. The other side went back into the orbit of tribal hinduism.

There is a small community that still exists and it tries to compound local culture with catholism but they have reached a limit. Their kids(the new generation) is charmed by global christianity(driven by Baptists) and are heading on the same course as the one I explained above.

JE Menon
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JE Menon » 12 Mar 2018 18:56

Very useful video for those interested in this subject (historicity of Christianity) to watch. It gives solid perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDt7wc5nn7E

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby panduranghari » 13 Mar 2018 20:26

The Agri Marathi community is VERY wealthy. They may be uneducated in the conventional sense, may appear parochial but they usually own a German SUV. Yes they may marry outside their community but AFAIK its very uncommon.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Rudradev » 13 Mar 2018 23:19

This is GOLD.

1) An article critical of Evangelical Christianity in the US, calling out their hypocrisy and detailing their long historical connection to Slavery and White Supremacism, was published in Forbes magazine yesterday.

2) The article was suddenly removed by Forbes!

3) The article then reappeared on a non-mainstream site, PoliticalOrphans.com.
https://www.politicalorphans.com/the-ar ... -so-cruel/

This article is a MUST READ, MUST ARCHIVE in itself. Will post excerpts below.

4) A letter from Forbes explaining to the author why they retracted his article has also been made public.

https://www.politicalorphans.com/an-exp ... om-forbes/

We took down your evangelical piece. It was way out of bounds — painting the entire evangelical movement with a broad brush.

We also have a policy of not talking about social issues like abortion at Forbes Opinion — only economic policy and politics. We try to keep things data driven.

Also, given your criticisms of Robert Jeffress, you should have reached out to him
for comment. As I noted in a recent email, it is extremely important to reach out for comment from anyone you personally criticize in your work.
Let me know if you have any questions about these points


NOTE that Forbes magazine, which has claimed the moral high ground on the basis of keeping things "data driven" and "not talking about social issues", wrote the following slanderous hit-piece on India's demonetisation efforts:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbe ... afa57917f5
"What India Has Done To Its Money Is Sickening And Immoral"

They certainly didn't reach out to the Government of India for comment when dishing out that highly opinionated pile of trash.

The point here is how much power the US Evangelical Christians have to achieve outright silencing and censorship of critical stories in the mainstream US media.

United States Commission for International Religious Freedom, anyone?

In all seriousness: ARCHIVE this article, SAVE it, and USE it. One of the best weapons gifted to us in our information war against the Evangelicals.

“Why White Evangelicalism Is So Cruel”
By Chris Ladd March 12, 2018


...

Religion is inseparable from culture, and culture is inseparable from history. Modern, white evangelicalism emerged from the interplay between race and religion in the slave states. What today we call “evangelical Christianity,” is the product of centuries of conditioning, in which religious practices were adapted to nurture a slave economy. The calloused insensitivity of modern white evangelicals was shaped by the economic and cultural priorities that forged their theology over centuries.

Many Christian movements take the title “evangelical,” including many African-American denominations. However, evangelicalism today has been coopted as a preferred description for Christians who were looking to shed an older, largely discredited title: Fundamentalist. A quick glance at a map showing concentrations of adherents and weekly church attendance reveals the evangelical movement’s center of gravity in the Old South. And among those evangelical churches, one denomination remains by far the leader in membership, theological pull, and political influence.

There is still today a Southern Baptist Church. More than a century and a half after the Civil War, and decades after the Methodists and Presbyterians reunited with their Yankee neighbors, America’s most powerful evangelical denomination remains defined, right down to the name over the door, by an 1845 split over slavery.

Southern denominations faced enormous social and political pressure from plantation owners. Public expressions of dissent on the subject of slavery in the South were not merely outlawed, they were a death sentence. Baptist ministers who rejected slavery, like South Carolina’s William Henry Brisbane, were forced to flee to the North. Otherwise, they would end up like Methodist minister Anthony Bewley, who was lynched in Texas in 1860, his bones left exposed at local store to be played with by children. Whiteness offered protection from many of the South’s cruelties, but that protection stopped at the subject of race. No one who dared speak truth to power on the subject of slavery, or later Jim Crow, could expect protection.


Generation after generation, Southern pastors adapted their theology to thrive under a terrorist state. Principled critics were exiled or murdered, leaving voices of dissent few and scattered. Southern Christianity evolved in strange directions under ever-increasing isolation. Preachers learned to tailor their message to protect themselves. If all you knew about Christianity came from a close reading of the New Testament, you’d expect that Christians would be hostile to wealth, emphatic in protection of justice, sympathetic to the point of personal pain toward the sick, persecuted and the migrant, and almost socialist in their economic practices. None of these consistent Christian themes served the interests of slave owners, so pastors could either abandon them, obscure them, or flee.

What developed in the South was a theology carefully tailored to meet the needs of a slave state. Biblical emphasis on social justice was rendered miraculously invisible. A book constructed around the central metaphor of slaves finding their freedom was reinterpreted. Messages which might have questioned the inherent superiority of the white race, constrained the authority of property owners, or inspired some interest in the poor or less fortunate could not be taught from a pulpit. Any Christian suggestion of social justice was carefully and safely relegated to “the sweet by and by” where all would be made right at no cost to white worshippers. In the forge of slavery and Jim Crow, a Christian message of courage, love, compassion, and service to others was burned away.


Stripped of its compassion and integrity, little remained of the Christian message. What survived was a perverse emphasis on sexual purity as the sole expression of righteousness, along with a creepy obsession with the unquestionable sexual authority of white men. In a culture where race defined one’s claim to basic humanity, women took on a special religious interest. Christianity’s historic emphasis on sexual purity as a form of ascetic self-denial was transformed into an obsession with women and sex. For Southerners, righteousness had little meaning beyond sex, and sexual mores had far less importance for men than for women. Guarding women’s sexual purity meant guarding the purity of the white race. There was no higher moral demand.


Changes brought by the Civil War only heightened the need to protect white racial superiority. Churches were the lynchpin of Jim Crow. By the time the Civil Rights movement gained force in the South, Dallas’ First Baptist Church, where Jeffress is the pastor today, was a bulwark of segregation and white supremacy. As the wider culture nationally has struggled to free itself from the burdens of racism, white evangelicals have fought this development while the violence escalated. What happened to ministers who resisted slavery happened again to those who resisted segregation. White Episcopal Seminary student, Jonathan Daniels, went to Alabama in 1965 to support voting rights protests. After being released from jail, he was murdered by an off-duty sheriff’s deputy, who was acquitted by a jury. Dozens of white activists joined the innumerable black Americans murdered fighting for civil rights in the 60’s, but very few of them were Southern.



White Evangelical Christians opposed desegregation tooth and nail. Where pressed, they made cheap, cosmetic compromises, like Billy Graham’s concession to allow black worshipers at his crusades. Graham never made any difficult statements on race, never appeared on stage with his “black friend” Martin Luther King after 1957, and he never marched with King. When King delivered his “I Have a Dream Speech,” Graham responded with this passive-aggressive gem of Southern theology, “Only when Christ comes again will the little white children of Alabama walk hand in hand with little black children.” For white Southern evangelicals, justice and compassion belong only to the dead.


Churches like First Baptist in Dallas did not become stalwart defenders of segregation by accident. Like the wider white evangelical movement, it was then and remains today an obstacle to Christian notions of social justice thanks to a long, dismal heritage. There is no changing the white evangelical movement without a wholesale reconsideration of their theology. No sign of such a reckoning is apparent.

...

The cruelty of white evangelical churches in politics, and in their treatment of their own gay or minority parishioners, is no accident. It is an institution born in slavery, tuned to serve the needs of Jim Crow, and entirely unwilling to confront either of those realities.




Akshay Kapoor
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 13 Mar 2018 23:47

Rudradev wrote:This is GOLD.

1) An article critical of Evangelical Christianity in the US, calling out their hypocrisy and detailing their long historical connection to Slavery and White Supremacism, was published in Forbes magazine yesterday.

2) The article was suddenly removed by Forbes!

3) The article then reappeared on a non-mainstream site, PoliticalOrphans.com.
https://www.politicalorphans.com/the-ar ... -so-cruel/

This article is a MUST READ, MUST ARCHIVE in itself. Will post excerpts below.

4) A letter from Forbes explaining to the author why they retracted his article has also been made public.

https://www.politicalorphans.com/an-exp ... om-forbes/

We took down your evangelical piece. It was way out of bounds — painting the entire evangelical movement with a broad brush.

We also have a policy of not talking about social issues like abortion at Forbes Opinion — only economic policy and politics. We try to keep things data driven.

Also, given your criticisms of Robert Jeffress, you should have reached out to him
for comment. As I noted in a recent email, it is extremely important to reach out for comment from anyone you personally criticize in your work.
Let me know if you have any questions about these points


NOTE that Forbes magazine, which has claimed the moral high ground on the basis of keeping things "data driven" and "not talking about social issues", wrote the following slanderous hit-piece on India's demonetisation efforts:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbe ... afa57917f5
"What India Has Done To Its Money Is Sickening And Immoral"

They certainly didn't reach out to the Government of India for comment when dishing out that highly opinionated pile of trash.

The point here is how much power the US Evangelical Christians have to achieve outright silencing and censorship of critical stories in the mainstream US media.

United States Commission for International Religious Freedom, anyone?

In all seriousness: ARCHIVE this article, SAVE it, and USE it. One of the best weapons gifted to us in our information war against the Evangelicals.

“Why White Evangelicalism Is So Cruel”
By Chris Ladd March 12, 2018


...

Religion is inseparable from culture, and culture is inseparable from history. Modern, white evangelicalism emerged from the interplay between race and religion in the slave states. What today we call “evangelical Christianity,” is the product of centuries of conditioning, in which religious practices were adapted to nurture a slave economy. The calloused insensitivity of modern white evangelicals was shaped by the economic and cultural priorities that forged their theology over centuries.

Many Christian movements take the title “evangelical,” including many African-American denominations. However, evangelicalism today has been coopted as a preferred description for Christians who were looking to shed an older, largely discredited title: Fundamentalist. A quick glance at a map showing concentrations of adherents and weekly church attendance reveals the evangelical movement’s center of gravity in the Old South. And among those evangelical churches, one denomination remains by far the leader in membership, theological pull, and political influence.

There is still today a Southern Baptist Church. More than a century and a half after the Civil War, and decades after the Methodists and Presbyterians reunited with their Yankee neighbors, America’s most powerful evangelical denomination remains defined, right down to the name over the door, by an 1845 split over slavery.

Southern denominations faced enormous social and political pressure from plantation owners. Public expressions of dissent on the subject of slavery in the South were not merely outlawed, they were a death sentence. Baptist ministers who rejected slavery, like South Carolina’s William Henry Brisbane, were forced to flee to the North. Otherwise, they would end up like Methodist minister Anthony Bewley, who was lynched in Texas in 1860, his bones left exposed at local store to be played with by children. Whiteness offered protection from many of the South’s cruelties, but that protection stopped at the subject of race. No one who dared speak truth to power on the subject of slavery, or later Jim Crow, could expect protection.


Generation after generation, Southern pastors adapted their theology to thrive under a terrorist state. Principled critics were exiled or murdered, leaving voices of dissent few and scattered. Southern Christianity evolved in strange directions under ever-increasing isolation. Preachers learned to tailor their message to protect themselves. If all you knew about Christianity came from a close reading of the New Testament, you’d expect that Christians would be hostile to wealth, emphatic in protection of justice, sympathetic to the point of personal pain toward the sick, persecuted and the migrant, and almost socialist in their economic practices. None of these consistent Christian themes served the interests of slave owners, so pastors could either abandon them, obscure them, or flee.

What developed in the South was a theology carefully tailored to meet the needs of a slave state. Biblical emphasis on social justice was rendered miraculously invisible. A book constructed around the central metaphor of slaves finding their freedom was reinterpreted. Messages which might have questioned the inherent superiority of the white race, constrained the authority of property owners, or inspired some interest in the poor or less fortunate could not be taught from a pulpit. Any Christian suggestion of social justice was carefully and safely relegated to “the sweet by and by” where all would be made right at no cost to white worshippers. In the forge of slavery and Jim Crow, a Christian message of courage, love, compassion, and service to others was burned away.


Stripped of its compassion and integrity, little remained of the Christian message. What survived was a perverse emphasis on sexual purity as the sole expression of righteousness, along with a creepy obsession with the unquestionable sexual authority of white men. In a culture where race defined one’s claim to basic humanity, women took on a special religious interest. Christianity’s historic emphasis on sexual purity as a form of ascetic self-denial was transformed into an obsession with women and sex. For Southerners, righteousness had little meaning beyond sex, and sexual mores had far less importance for men than for women. Guarding women’s sexual purity meant guarding the purity of the white race. There was no higher moral demand.


Changes brought by the Civil War only heightened the need to protect white racial superiority. Churches were the lynchpin of Jim Crow. By the time the Civil Rights movement gained force in the South, Dallas’ First Baptist Church, where Jeffress is the pastor today, was a bulwark of segregation and white supremacy. As the wider culture nationally has struggled to free itself from the burdens of racism, white evangelicals have fought this development while the violence escalated. What happened to ministers who resisted slavery happened again to those who resisted segregation. White Episcopal Seminary student, Jonathan Daniels, went to Alabama in 1965 to support voting rights protests. After being released from jail, he was murdered by an off-duty sheriff’s deputy, who was acquitted by a jury. Dozens of white activists joined the innumerable black Americans murdered fighting for civil rights in the 60’s, but very few of them were Southern.



White Evangelical Christians opposed desegregation tooth and nail. Where pressed, they made cheap, cosmetic compromises, like Billy Graham’s concession to allow black worshipers at his crusades. Graham never made any difficult statements on race, never appeared on stage with his “black friend” Martin Luther King after 1957, and he never marched with King. When King delivered his “I Have a Dream Speech,” Graham responded with this passive-aggressive gem of Southern theology, “Only when Christ comes again will the little white children of Alabama walk hand in hand with little black children.” For white Southern evangelicals, justice and compassion belong only to the dead.


Churches like First Baptist in Dallas did not become stalwart defenders of segregation by accident. Like the wider white evangelical movement, it was then and remains today an obstacle to Christian notions of social justice thanks to a long, dismal heritage. There is no changing the white evangelical movement without a wholesale reconsideration of their theology. No sign of such a reckoning is apparent.

...

The cruelty of white evangelical churches in politics, and in their treatment of their own gay or minority parishioners, is no accident. It is an institution born in slavery, tuned to serve the needs of Jim Crow, and entirely unwilling to confront either of those realities.





Very revealing Rudradev. And I agree, crucially important. We need however to find a way for this to seep into consciousness of people and the narrative.

Also I find some excellent analysis across threads on the strategic forum. My compliments to all the high quality posters. This body of knowledge and research is very important and as a refreshing change from mil forum it is high quality with strong content !

JE Menon
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JE Menon » 14 Mar 2018 11:24

Thanks Rudradev...very useful piece.

chetak
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby chetak » 14 Mar 2018 13:53

this is where the popular and vatican approved image of the ROL comes from. It looks like something right out of central casting or even something conjured up by a top notch madison avenue ad agency for a campaign.

What would sell better??

Image



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhLtvYhvbsU

He would actually have been a dark skinned, short mid eastern type like this


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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Avarachan » 26 Jun 2018 07:57

This is an eye-opening instance of how the Roman Catholic Organization (I refuse to call it a church) wields political power to cover up its crimes.

https://www.ncronline.org/news/accounta ... a-dioceses
Mark Dent, "Grand jury report on abuse looms for six Pennsylvania dioceses"
"National Catholic Reporter," Jun 4, 2018

Pennsylvania State Rep. Mark Rozzi often tells people his emotional trauma doesn't get better. The memory of a trusted priest at Holy Guardian Angels in Reading raping him in a shower at age 13 haunts him as strongly today as it did years ago, if not worse.

He's told people about it for years — constituents, media and fellow lawmakers — but the story never felt as powerful and meaningful as it did on a recent occasion when he explained what happened in front of a grand jury in a Pennsylvania courtroom.

"It was very rewarding to get in front of people who were caring and actually listening," he said, "and can make a difference."

Rozzi is one of dozens of witnesses to testify over the last two years as the Pennsylvania Attorney General's Office completes an investigation into six of Pennsylvania's eight dioceses. Later this month, the office is expected to release a report of 800-plus pages detailing widespread sexual abuse and cover-ups. The report is to come a few weeks after an Erie priest was indicted for sexual assault and two years after another presentment for the Altoona-Johnstown Diocese was released.

This grand jury presentment will feature information on the dioceses of Allentown, Erie, Greensburg, Harrisburg, Pittsburgh and Scranton. The six dioceses have already been given copies of the grand jury report ahead of the public, though they and the Attorney General's Office have remained mum on the contents.


Pennsylvania has dealt with major sexual abuse scandals before, not only those involving the Catholic Church. The Jerry Sandusky scandal at Pennsylvania State University led to convictions for assault by the former assistant football coach and for cover-ups by three prominent university officials. And recent accusations have been leveled against the now-resigned director of the Cadets, a renowned drum corps based in Allentown.

With misbehavior and cover-ups from the Catholic Church and others as a backdrop, Rozzi has been trying for six years to get Pennsylvania to eliminate the statute of limitations for civil and criminal cases involving child sexual abuse, facing stiff opposition from Catholic lobbyists.

He noted the breadth of this current investigation into the Catholic Church is far larger than any previous inquiries and warns, based on conversations with nuns and victims, that the result will be severe.

"This will probably be the worst grand jury report in the history of the United States on sexual abuse," Rozzi said.


Hoping 'to get names and assignment histories'

The grand jury for the six dioceses began meeting shortly after the report on the Altoona-Johnstown Diocese was released in the spring of 2016. The Attorney General's Office found hundreds of children had been abused by more than 50 priests and religious leaders in Altoona-Johnstown over a period of several decades. Two Franciscan friars pleaded no contest and were sentenced to five years' probation for covering up crimes detailed in the presentment. A third friar faced charges, but they were dropped because of statute of limitations issues.

It was the second Pennsylvania diocese to face grand jury findings of sexual abuse and cover-ups. In 2005, the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office released the first of what became three reports on the Philadelphia Archdiocese, with local church leaders accusing the authorities of sensationalism. In 2011, after the Philadelphia Archdiocese had vowed every child was safe, more sexual abuse was found to have occurred by still-active priests.

Dominican Fr. Thomas Doyle, a canon lawyer who has been involved in seeking justice for abuse victims and who testified twice before the Pennsylvania grand jury, said dioceses in the state have been among the worst at bringing justice for victims.

"It stands out for me because of the brazen arrogance of the Archdiocese of Philadelphia," he said, "because of the arrogance and unbelievable behavior of Bishop [James] Timlin of Scranton."

According to BishopAccountability.org, a website that tracks sexual abuse accusations by clergy, nearly 150 priests in the six dioceses under investigation have already been accused of sexual abuse. Many of the accusations were discovered and self-reported by the dioceses in the early 2000s, under the direction of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. As Doyle noted, one of the most controversial cases involved Scranton. Timlin, who retired in 2003 and is still being celebrated by the diocese, has been criticized for transferring accused priests rather than alerting authorities ....

Rozzi sees no satisfactory response besides the resignation of every bishop in the six dioceses or the bishops' providing support for the passage of legislation eliminating the statute of limitations on sex abuse cases. A measure that would also allow past victims to sue the church passed the state House in 2016 before getting killed in the Senate. The Pennsylvania Catholic Conference unleashed dozens of lobbyists to steer lawmakers, and bishops throughout Pennsylvania were outspoken in condemning the bill.

"To me it's disgusting," Rozzi said. "My word to parishioners is to stop giving the church any of your money. Until they hold themselves responsible for their actions, they don't deserve your money."

Rozzi still considers himself Catholic, though he almost never attends Mass. The last two times he said he attended a Catholic service were for funerals for two of his childhood friends who had committed suicide. They were abused by the same priest who had raped him in the shower.


http://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime- ... 1806200171
Peter Smith, "Supreme Court delays release of grand jury report on church sex abuse"
"Pittsburgh Post-Gazette," June 20, 2018

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court has barred the release of a statewide grand jury report investigating sexual abuse in six Roman Catholic dioceses until further notice.

The order Wednesday from the court’s Western District did not give details on who petitioned for the delay or what happens next.
The court kept all of the filings in the case under seal except for its brief order.

From June 2016 until April 2018, the 40th statewide grand jury, convening in Pittsburgh, heard evidence on sexual abuse in the dioceses of Pittsburgh, Greensburg, Erie, Harrisburg, Allentown and Scranton.

The investigation covers allegations of sexual abuse and cover-up over the past seven decades. As a result, many of the alleged criminal offenses cannot be prosecuted under the statute of limitations, although one priest each from the dioceses of Erie and Greensburg face charges ....

Attorney General Josh Shapiro, whose office conducted the investigation through the grand jury, said in a statement, “My legal team and I will continue fighting tirelessly to make sure the victims of this abuse are able to tell their stories and the findings of this investigation are made public to the people of Pennsylvania.”

Rep. Mark Rozzi, D-Berks, who is one of the dozens of victims of clergy sex abuse who testified before the grand jury, said in an emotional statement that the court's order is a "travesty of justice and insult to all victims of childhood sex abuse."

"It's just like it's been since day one with me, kick us to the curb. Let the trash on the curb get old, maybe we'll rot and die and go away. We're not going away. I'm not going away, and I can promise that to all the victims across the commonwealth."

Mr. Rozzi added that releasing the report would have been a great step toward justice for the victims' mental and physical health. The Inquirer/Daily News has reported that one victim who testified before the grand jury attempted suicide, and from her hospital bed, implored the grand jury to finish its work.

Mr. Rozzi reiterated his call for Catholic bishops themselves to support his legislation that would remove the statute of limitations for lawsuits on sexual abuse, enabling plaintiffs to sue dioceses for decades-old abuse.

He questioned whether opposition to releasing the report is due to its naming of public officials and community leaders who enabled the church in its cover-up of abuse,
as indicated in Judge Krumenacker’s order.

The dioceses, after some legal wrangling, received copies of the report last month and are preparing responses. Under state law, those criticized but not charged by a grand jury have the right to file a formal written rebuttal.

Wednesday’s ruling came just hours after the news that retired Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, former head of the Archdiocese of Washington, D.C., has been barred from ministry after church officials confirmed a decades-old allegation of sexual abuse against him. That made him the highest-ranking official in the U.S. church ever removed from ministry since the crisis of sexual abuse by priests became a national scandal in 1984.


It is in the interest of children around the world that this report be made public. For the record, I am an Indian Orthodox Christian, and the way certain Vaticanists use Christ as a mask for their crimes is disgusting to me.
Last edited by Avarachan on 26 Jun 2018 18:05, edited 1 time in total.

RoyG
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby RoyG » 26 Jun 2018 08:44

Orthodox Christians of India have a good opportunity to take the lessons of their ancestors to the world and reform the Protestant and Catholic sects. They hold a critical key for world peace. The earliest christians of India didn't 'convert' to Christianity. They merely retold the knowledge of the Upanishads through the Christian story and also began creating a new Itihasa. Saint Thomas wasn't killed by Brahmins. After his transformation to a peacock was he killed by the hunter. The portuguese tried their best to destroy the community but it still survives. Sadly they are now at the fringes of a growing evangelistic movement consuming the community and attacking the so called 'pagan' traditions of India. It will also be critical that Indian Orthodoxy reign supreme in the Christian world to finally put an end to demonization of homosexuals and other groups in the West.

We have family friends who are Orthodox Christians who do puja with us and consider it a critical part of their heritage. They don't hold any exclusivity claims either. The merely ignore those parts given to them by the partial access to their past through contemporaneous bibles.

Austin
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Austin » 26 Jun 2018 11:23

The Image of Holy Face of Jesus will be close to what St. Faustina saw and told the artist to drew in her Divine Mercy revelation out of the many images the artist Eugeniusz Kazimirowski drew based on description of St Faustina this is the closest the artist came to

Image

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Haresh » 17 Aug 2018 21:40

"Appalachia's serpent-handling pastors use the snakes to show non-Christians that God protects them from harm, holding them aloft as they pray, sing and dance" :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... snake.html

Austin
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Austin » 18 Aug 2018 07:46

May be he forgot the cardinal commandment Jesus gave , “It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

The good serpent just reminded him :)

Wishing him healing and recovery

Philip
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Philip » 23 Aug 2018 13:59

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nstitution
It’s too late. Not even Pope Francis can resurrect Catholic Ireland
Fintan O'Toole
Francis seems a fine person, and the faithful will greet him with joy. But he can’t repair the ruins of a corrupt, abusive institution
Thu 23 Aug 2018
Illustration, of pope using his mitre hat to silence and bury abuse survivor, by Bill Bragg
When Jorge Mario Bergoglio chose the name Francis for his papacy, he was asking Catholics to make a connection to the medieval religious revolutionary Francis of Assisi. Early in his spiritual pilgrimage, the original Francis heard the icon of the crucified Christ in the Italian church of San

How dare the pope ask ordinary Catholics to atone for child abuse? | Joanna Moorhead
Read more Damiano speak to him. It said “Francis, Francis, go and repair My house which, as you can see, is falling into ruins.”
When the pope arrives in Ireland this weekend, he will find a Catholic church not just falling to ruin, but in some respects beyond repair. He will be greeted with joy by the faithful, but few, even among them, will expect him to be able to fix an institution that has been shaken to its very foundations.

On the face of it, it is strange to think that, when Francis touches down on Irish soil, it will be only the second time a serving pope has visited the island. But popes didn’t visit Ireland because they didn’t have to. After partition and the foundation of an independent Irish state in 1922, there was nowhere more securely Catholic. Well over 90% of the population belonged to the faith, and even more remarkably almost all the Catholics were practising. The church controlled most schools and hospitals. Governments obeyed it, banning divorce, contraceptives, abortion and “dirty” books (including the bulk of modern Irish literature). A pope visiting Ireland would have been the very definition of preaching to the converted.

As a child I served mass most days in the church near our council housing estate in west Dublin. It has a vast open interior with soaring ceilings, three altars and row after row of long wooden seating. On Sundays there were six masses, on the hour from seven to noon. Every one of them was full or close to it. There were, at any given time, seven or eight priests to say them. They were busy: during the week, there were morning masses, evening devotions, sodalities, weddings, funerals and confessions. The church was as familiar to most of us as our own homes.

And now? There is one priest holding things together on his own. The church itself is like a suit made for a very fat man who has now slimmed down to a fraction of his old weight. The rows are almost all empty, even for Sunday mass. The soaring ceilings merely echo the emptiness. The place is cold in winter because the parish can’t afford to heat it, and there is no longer the warmth of crowded bodies. The remaining faithful are almost all older and female.

Souvenir figures of Pope Francis on sale in Ireland. The pope is due to visit this weekend.

Souvenir figures of Pope Francis on sale in Ireland. The pope is due to visit this weekend. Photograph: Clodagh Kilcoyne/Reuters
It’s not like this everywhere in Ireland. Rural parishes are generally more vigorous, even if many of them now have African priests, reversing generations of missionary effort. Some middle-class suburbs still have well-resourced and well-attended churches. The church itself retains a stranglehold on the system of primary education and a huge influence in healthcare. But the decline is still stark: from a weekly mass attendance of over 80% in 1979, when John Paul II made the only previous papal visit, to about 35% now. And with it has come a loss of political power crystallised in the overwhelming vote in May to remove the constitutional ban on abortion.

Some of this decline would have happened anyway. The sheer dominance of the Irish Catholic church was not normal. It happened because resistance to the Reformation had been the most effective way for most of the indigenous population to resist assimilation into British power, which was, of course, defined by Protestantism.With the decline of the Irish language in the 19th century, Catholicism became an even stronger marker of distinctive identity. Mass emigration made the universal and international nature of the church even more comforting – if you had to go from Connemara to Connecticut or from Cavan to Coventry, at least the mass was still the same, and the priest was probably still Irish. And then the partition of Ireland in 1921 created two religious ghettoes, the “Protestant state for a Protestant people” in the north mirrored by its Catholic counterpart in the south. Dissident minorities could be easily cowed on both sides of the border.

This was never going to last. The belated modernisation of the Irish economy from the 1960s onwards gradually created an urbanised, secularised and much more highly educated society. Feminism put down deep roots. A patriarchal, authoritarian institution reliant on blind faith and the power of conformity was never going to survive these processes intact. Indeed, the Irish Catholic church was all the more vulnerable precisely because its power had gone largely unchallenged. Like a child raised in a sterile environment, its immune system was weak.

But what might have happened slowly and gently, with half the population remaining faithful and half slipping into benign indifference, has instead happened quickly and bitterly. Buddhist monks in Vietnam used to set themselves on fire – the Irish bishops and cardinals have done so metaphorically, but no less shockingly. The petrol they poured over themselves was what Francis, in his open letter released on Monday, called “atrocities perpetrated by consecrated persons”. The flame they set to it was the systematic covering up and effective facilitation of the sexual abuse of children by clergy.

Perhaps some radically different Catholicism will emerge in time, stripped of patriarchy and authoritarianism
While this horror story began to be told in the 1990s, it has since been compounded by three factors. First, child abuse by priests in parishes is just one part of a wider story of institutional abuse in which women and children were incarcerated in industrial schools, Magdalene laundries and mother-and-baby homes. This still emerging story casts a sickly retrospective glow on Holy Catholic Ireland – it is ever clearer that it maintained its “purity” through systematic terror.

Second, what many Irish Catholics thought was a local problem, created by a few evil priests and weak bishops, has turned out to be an international phenomenon, and thus implicit in the nature of the institutional church itself. This was a global cover-up directed from the Vatican.

Third, the Vatican’s response has been pitiful. In a special letter to Irish Catholics in 2010, the then Pope Benedict expressed “shame and remorse”, and claimed to share their “dismay and … sense of betrayal”. But that simply means that when Francis now says the same things, their effect is blunted. The fine words have not been matched by real change. The brilliantly articulate Irish abuse survivor Marie Collins agreed to serve on the Papal Commission for the Protection of Minors established by the Vatican in 2014. But she resigned over its lack of real clout within the church.

And it’s too late now to offer more apologies and promises. Francis seems a fine person, and most Irish people will be glad to see him. For the remaining faithful his presence will bring pleasure and comfort. But the model Catholic state that Ireland once was is in the tomb, and there will be no resurrection. Perhaps something else will emerge in time, some radically different version of Catholicism, stripped of patriarchy, authoritarianism and institutional self-regard. In the meantime, there is only one sermon that can be truthfully preached in the ruined Irish church: absolute power corrupts absolutely.

• Fintan O’Toole is a columnist with the Irish Times

sanjaykumar
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 23 Aug 2018 20:07

Kudos to the Irish people. Unlike those in the third world and elsewhere, they are developing and exercising their free thinking rights. A very brave people.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby wig » 02 Sep 2018 13:32

The church in India uses child care homes for conversion.
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punja ... 46359.html

Most shelter home children non-Christians, claim police
Probe reveals they were followers of religion practised by tribal people
excerpts
he Jharkhand police on Saturday claimed that most of the children residing at Packiam Mercy Cross Trust, an illegal shelter home at Phullawal here, were not Christian, but followers of Sarnaism, a tribal religion.

The fact came to the fore after the cops questioned some of the children traced by them. Sarna followers worship nature, represented by trees. Shelter home owner Satyanandra Parkash Musa (60) had claimed that all children were from a Christian background.

and
Amar Kumar Pandey, Sadar Sub-Divisional Police Officer (SDPO), Chaibasa, told The Tribune over the phone from Jharkhand, “Over 70 per cent of the children staying at the Ludhiana shelter home were believers of Sarna. Their conversion was done by Musa. We have sufficient evidence to prove this.”

So far, 24 missing children and their parents have been traced by the police and statements of 15 have been recorded.

“Twenty children from Jharkhand were brought by a former student of Musa, Junool Longa (24), while the remaining had come through missionaries and churches. Once we identify these missionaries, they will also be booked,” said Pandey.

Longa had convinced the parents by promising better future and living conditions for their wards, but they were not aware of conversions, he said.

Musa and working chairman of Council of Ludhiana churches K Koshy had denied the conversion charge, but accepted that they did not renew the shelter home’s registration.

What children say

They were being taught prayers and bible lessons everyday irrespective of their religion.

They were staying in three halls inside the shelter home. Older children used to cook food.
They all were studying at Agapya Public school (belonging to a missionary) at Shaheed Karnail Singh Nagar.
Students were allotted classes according to their heights.
Parents were unaware of these activities and were not allowed to meet the children frequently.
What neighbours say
People living near the shelter home said no child was allowed to play outside the home. They were kept in locked premises. Sometimes, people used to visit the home in big cars. No knowledge about conversions.

Singha
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Singha » 02 Sep 2018 15:49

Was the serpent killed and eaten by the flock to punish for its misdeed

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby uddu » 02 Sep 2018 19:02

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 610007.cms

BATHINDA: A study conducted by group of evolutionary biologists from Central University of Punjab, Bathinda has revealed that the acceptance of Darwin’s theory of evolution is very high among Indians. The study found 68.5% of Indians accepted that the human beings were developed from earlier species of animals, as propounded by Charles Darwin in his theory of evolution.

The persons who identified as ‘rightists’ accepted the evolution more than those who identified themselves as ‘leftists’ at 66% compared to 61%. :eek: {The so called progressive left}

Countries where religious belief is high (Turkey, US etc.) tend to be least likely to accept the evolution, and vice versa. However, the case is very different in India. According to the 2011 census, 99.8% of Indians associated with religion, while merely 0.2% were irreligious. Lead author of the study Dr. Felix Bast conjectured possible reason for high public acceptance of evolution in India despite the fact of high religiosity is that Hinduism does not conflict Darwin’s theory of evolution to a large extent. According to 2011 census, Hindus encompass 80.3% of Indian population. Many concepts of Vedas and Hinduism support the scientific consensus of geology, climate science and evolution to a large extent.

For example, according to Rigveda, the age of earth is 1.97 billion years, which is very old compared with that of creation myth propounded by Abrahamic religions (according to creationism-also called Intelligent Design, the age of earth is around 6000 years). Current scientific consensus of the age of earth is 4.543 billion years. A number of evolutionary biologists in the past as well were baffled about the surprising similarity between evolutionary theory and Hinduism. British evolutionary biologist JBS Haldane, for instance, suggested that Hindu concept of dashavatara- the ten incarnations of Lord Vishnu- is a rough idea of vertebrate evolution (fish-the vertebrate to tortoise-reptile to boar-mammal to man).

Pseudoscience concepts such as creationism is never taught in schools in India while the case is very different in conservative states of the United States where creationism is taught in parallel to evolution. Surveys in the US too (for example, one in 2007) indicated that among American population Buddhists and Hindus (more than 80%) are far more likely to accept evolution than other religious groups.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 02 Sep 2018 22:59

A number of evolutionary biologists in the past as well were baffled about the surprising similarity between evolutionary theory and Hinduism. British evolutionary biologist JBS Haldane, for instance, suggested that Hindu concept of dashavatara- the ten incarnations of Lord Vishnu- is a rough idea of vertebrate evolution (fish-the vertebrate to tortoise-reptile to boar-mammal to man).


I did not know that JBS Haldane had noted this. There is a deep meme in Hinduism that approaches Lovelock's concept of Gaia. As close to spirituality that is permitted for any student of natural history.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Haresh » 03 Sep 2018 00:06

REVEALED: The shocking plight of America's child brides aged as young as 13 who have been forced to marry their attackers - which helps their abusers escape justice under archaic laws

"Some hail from religious communities"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ng-13.html

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Pulikeshi » 03 Sep 2018 00:31

sanjaykumar wrote: A number of evolutionary biologists in the past as well were baffled about the surprising similarity between evolutionary theory and Hinduism. British evolutionary biologist JBS Haldane, for instance, suggested that Hindu concept of dashavatara- the ten incarnations of Lord Vishnu- is a rough idea of vertebrate evolution (fish-the vertebrate to tortoise-reptile to boar-mammal to man).


I did not know that JBS Haldane had noted this. There is a deep meme in Hinduism that approaches Lovelock's concept of Gaia. As close to spirituality that is permitted for any student of natural history.


Honestly _ I’ve seen this reference but have had a hard time tracking down the original on where JBS Haldane quoted this and what the original source is... sometimes wonder if there needs to be some audit of these links in Wikipedia as they end up being circular or go nowhere...
If someone has original reference would appreciate it!

"Cover Story: Haldane: Life Of A Prodigious Mind". Science Reporter. Council of Scientific & Industrial Research. 29: 46. 1992.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 03 Sep 2018 00:42

Especially insightful is the distinction between Parushram and Ram.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Manish_P » 14 Oct 2018 18:36

As per reporter of Jagran newspaper, christian convert (who had converted at least 3 years ago) Head constable Mahipal Singh had converted others as well and was pressuring the Judge's family to convert

I have shot your son & wife, accused told Judge

“I have shot your son and wife,” the accused gunman Mahipal said in a chilling phone call to Judge Krishan Kant after fleeing from the spot.

While the police officially refused to confirm anything, one of the investigating officials claimed that he had rang up two other people from the spot.
Deputy Commissioner of Police (DCP East) Sulochna Gajraj told reporters that the accused made three calls after fleeing from the scene of the crime. Out of these, one was to his employer of two years. He then reached a police station where he fired in the air and fled before the station house officer (SHO) could nab him.

Informing them about the ghastly act, he said, “I have finally shot ‘shaitan’ (Satan) and his mother.”

Unable to ascertain the motive behind the crime, the investigating officials claimed that he had been constantly talking about his recent conversion to Christianity and quoting from the Bible. He was saying that it was every Christian’s duty to eliminate demons.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby habal » 15 Oct 2018 09:57

tanushree dutta in all likelihood a western plant by jesuits to protect bishop franco charged with rape by nun.

https://dbn.news/article/11479/tanushre ... n-convert/

tanushree dutta, 2013
https://www.filmfare.com/interviews/mok ... -4136.html

check out links between opus dei and the spanish franco. Looks like they are very protective about franco association.

Tanushree dutta practising spirituality in USA. Everyone knows that you can never practise spirituality in a 100% materialistic society dedicated towards pleasures of flesh and wordly comforts.

most likely she was practicing becoming an Opus dei stormtrooper.

how she got green card ?
Green Card is very easy if one can be of assistance to the southern baptist/pentecostal church or the jesuit/opus dei which is defacto deep state of USA.

rothschield - red shield (an order of jesuits n/o knights of malta) handle the federal reserve.

USA is in pockets of these elements. And tanushree dutta was seen bragging in one interview 'now I have backup'.

bollywood was a low hanging target, because not one male or female movie star can claim to be clean. Only maybe some star children escaped being sexually exploited for roles. 'Me Too' campaign was/is capable of destroying credibility of entire bollywood and Indian film industry.


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