Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by uskumar »

it seems in TN, EJs are back to their old tricks now that DMK is slated to win the election. saw distribution of pamlets in 2 places in chennai west suburbs. next 5 years is going to be tough
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by Haresh »

rsingh wrote:Yesterday, I did my part. There was a crowd 15-20 persons. This one (been everywhere type) who asked me what is my country of origin. I responded, and guy said that he had been in eastern India with an missionary. I delibratly raised my voice and asked him to explain his work there. The guy went on (looking in the eyes of others.....expecting some respect).......we made a school building, a little Church building and helped those poor people. I asked " So you introduced them to Christianity". He went on ......Yes , Yes it was bit difficult but it was succesful mission. That was the limit for me. So......you converted them to Christianity. The Guy went on proudly "yes but Tribals got money in return". I raised my voice further deliberately " You gave money so that tribals change their religion? Guy "yes". This is not done. By this time crowd was with me. I explained that such visa is canceled these days and if try this again he may have to face imprisonment.
Well done.
You need to get a group together to collect their free bibles, as many as possible. Then burn them. They can waste more money printing new ones.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by wig »

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punja ... ief-232284
this article is dated 30 mar 2021
Baptism row: Akal Takht summons Chief Khalsa Diwan chief
extracts
Akal Takht Jathedar Giani Harpreet Singh has summoned Chief Khalsa Diwan (CKD) president Nirmal Singh and several other office-bearers on Wednesday regarding the controversy of ‘baptisation’ of its members.

Besides Nirmal Singh, the other office-bearers who were summoned are CKD vice-president Inderbir Singh Nijjar, two honorary secretaries Sawinder Singh Kathunangal and Ajit Singh Basra, Harminder Singh and Freedom and Dharam Prachar Committee head Bhag Singh Ankhi. They were asked to appear before five high Sikh priests at the Akal Takht.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by sanjaykumar »

Nothing a little sword play can’t resolve.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by KJo »

uskumar wrote:it seems in TN, EJs are back to their old tricks now that DMK is slated to win the election. saw distribution of pamlets in 2 places in chennai west suburbs. next 5 years is going to be tough
So how does a conversation actually happen? I find it hard to believe that distributing pamphlets or free food works. I have had several EJs come home to sell me their god and give me pamphlets and I always use the occasion to have a scholarly discussion with them about my god versus their god. They are never able to prove that their god is any better than mine. Conversation attempt fail. Free food, well the churches at my grad school tried it, we desis just ate the free meal and came home to pray to Bhagwan Shri Krishna. Fail.
The only way it works today is if EJs zero in on hungry poor people and give them food only if they come to church and begin the brainwash process. May be other similar ways but torture methods won't work today.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by shravanp »

KJo wrote:
uskumar wrote:it seems in TN, EJs are back to their old tricks now that DMK is slated to win the election. saw distribution of pamlets in 2 places in chennai west suburbs. next 5 years is going to be tough
So how does a conversation actually happen? I find it hard to believe that distributing pamphlets or free food works. I have had several EJs come home to sell me their god and give me pamphlets and I always use the occasion to have a scholarly discussion with them about my god versus their god. They are never able to prove that their god is any better than mine. Conversation attempt fail. Free food, well the churches at my grad school tried it, we desis just ate the free meal and came home to pray to Bhagwan Shri Krishna. Fail.
The only way it works today is if EJs zero in on hungry poor people and give them food only if they come to church and begin the brainwash process. May be other similar ways but torture methods won't work today.

A friend of mine (Catholic) said the only people you see in Church these days are adivasis and dalits. Regular folks like him hardly visit Church (as per him).
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by Ambar »

Not everyone converts for food, that may have been the case in the 80s and 90s but not anymore. Their target demographic for conversion today are those who live in rural or semi-rural areas, daily wage workers, retail workers, factory workers etc in big cities. I have seen this up close many a times and i couldn't help but think how similar the whole conversion racket is to the annoying Amway pyramid marketing scheme. Someone in the neighborhood knows a family has difficulties, it can be health or financial or something else, they approach the family, usually the woman of the family and convince her to visit the church once for a Sunday mass or visit one of the mushrooming "prayer halls" in the evenings . And thus begins the process, the woman of the house soon begins taking her entire family to these prayer meetings, slowly the old gods are replaced with the new god, they approach their other relatives and friends and talk how visiting a church/prayer meeting helped them overcome their problems, and before you know the entire neighborhood has converted.

That said i do wonder who else is left to convert in TN, AP, Telangana and KL ? KAR was once a fortress of hindutva but is going through a rapid expansion of Christianity now. Growing up my entire little town had one CSI church where both protestants and catholics worshiped, now there is a church in every neighborhood and probably dozens of prayer halls aka soon to be church. There was a time when markets would get crowded for Ugaadi and Deepavali, now markets get crowded around Easter and Christmas. Funnily enough many of the new converts "worship" Jesus by putting a tilak, garland, incense sticks and fruits ! So not sure who got converted, the people or the Christian god !
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by shravanp »

Well, going back to the Roman times, where important state officials got converted resulting conversion of several subjects. Same pattern is being observed in AP/TG and TN. Many IAS, baboons have already converted (via bribes), and now they are doing the job of making lower strata convert en-masse.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by sudarshan »

shravanp wrote:Well, going back to the Roman times, where important state officials got converted resulting conversion of several subjects. Same pattern is being observed in AP/TG and TN. Many IAS, baboons have already converted (via bribes), and now they are doing the job of making lower strata convert en-masse.
Too lazy to look up now, but I think it was Einstein who said "new ideas don't get accepted because of logic, they get accepted because a new generation comes up which gets comfortable with them" or something like that. The EJs know this very well. The focus on conversion is to ensure that a new generation comes up baptized, christened, and frightened of divine retribution. They know that the older converts can well go back, and they are fine with that, so long as the future is secured. So they focus on people with problems, mentally disturbed folks, sick folks, fully knowing that those folks are going to continue facing problems even after conversion, probably going to get disillusioned at some point, even revert. That's fine. So long as the kids are brought up the "right" way and grow up thinking of that as the norm.

SD is large enough to do a full assimilation of their faith. I said once that Hindus should focus on owning Jesus, build temples for him, worship in our normal way, have a "Jesus ashtami" or "dashami" or whatever every year, with the notion that anybody who worships Jesus with faith that year, will have h** bad karma rescinded for a year, on the caveat that they do not repeat their wrongs. Similar to a Ganga snaan, after all. Xmas becomes just another festival, lunarized (see above - ashtami/ dashami/ ...) instead of solarized to Dec. 25th.

The tactics are reversible. Other faiths died out because they couldn't adapt, that's all.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by chetak »

shravanp wrote:
KJo wrote:
So how does a conversation actually happen? I find it hard to believe that distributing pamphlets or free food works. I have had several EJs come home to sell me their god and give me pamphlets and I always use the occasion to have a scholarly discussion with them about my god versus their god. They are never able to prove that their god is any better than mine. Conversation attempt fail. Free food, well the churches at my grad school tried it, we desis just ate the free meal and came home to pray to Bhagwan Shri Krishna. Fail.
The only way it works today is if EJs zero in on hungry poor people and give them food only if they come to church and begin the brainwash process. May be other similar ways but torture methods won't work today.

A friend of mine (Catholic) said the only people you see in Church these days are adivasis and dalits. Regular folks like him hardly visit Church (as per him).

as these converted xtian folks make their way up the socio economic ladder and their financials start improve, changing their self perception, that's when they tend to look for church services in english rather than those in the vernacular languages.

such services in english are very few and far between

so, many of them stop attending, just to emphasize their social standing and to differentiate themselves as having "arrived".

some years ago there was a premises hired nearby every sunday specifically for church services in English. There was a massive crowd that kept increasing every sunday and caused huge traffic jams with vehicles parked haphazardly.

and these crowds intimidated complaining residents in the area who were inconvenienced and they behaved just like the thooker jehadis.

polis intervened and some months later the services were stopped
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by Haresh »

Have a look at Mission India FB page.

They really feel free to claim victimhood.
Strange how a defence of christianity turns into white/european colonial nationalism

https://www.facebook.com/MissionIndiaUK ... &ref=notif
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by sudarshan »

Lots of interest on Hindu scripture on StackOverflow, of all places.

For example:

https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/ques ... ect=1&lq=1

Seems like they're trawling through scriptures (probably translations) trying to find contradictions and talking points. Note the one gloating comment saying "hard to get away from this one."

The answer to the above "contradiction" is of course elementary - to a true Dharmic.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by sanjaykumar »

Ain’t read it. But that is a self destructive path for a believer. Certainly not the road to Damascus.

Most Christians, as the brighter ones will tell you, don’t know the book. Many Christians are open to a respectful dismantling of their cherished beliefs. Evangelists are unable to persuade the >70% of American youth who are non believers so perforce beat the bushes in some god-forsaken shothile for recruits.

People in India would do well to ape the more accomplished countrymen of these proslytisers. If phoren is the fashion, why not model yourself on people who are productive and thoughtful?

I actually foresee white ex-Christians doing battle in places like India. The cachet of white skin can accomplish wonders in some places, not just India but places like Japan Korea Philippines Africa
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by sudarshan »

^ Just saying what's going on. Questioning is actively encouraged in SD anyway. But that's not the point. These kinds of ridiculous "contradictions" are what sway new converts. I've been triumphantly told about these elementary level "contradictions" in SD by several new converts, who are blind and deaf to the same kinds of issues in their new faith. Things like "if Brahman (not Brahma) is such an important concept, why are there no temples for this Brahman in the whole of India? See how stupid SD is?" The EJs just build long lists of similar issues with SD and overwhelm gullible souls with them, and deracinated folks do get easily influenced.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by sanjaykumar »

It’s quite the other way around. People convert for rice. The rationalisations follow.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by sudarshan »

sanjaykumar wrote:It’s quite the other way around. People convert for rice. The rationalisations follow.
To a large extent it is as you say. But there is also a significant chunk of misfits who are very susceptible to brainwashing. The ones whom I was talking about in my previous post didn't do it for a rice bag, they were pretty well off.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by shravanp »

I also think that freeing up temples would particularly be tough because the resistance would come from EJ lobby. The present situation where marginalized and downtrodden sections get converted to Xianity due to forced conversions or allurements is best suited for EJs. Freeing up temples and thus the temple money used for betterment of marginalized sections would be effectively checkmate EJs. Somehow EJs are making sure that temples remain shackled, and its finances/money never reach the real deserving candidates, instead they are at-times being funneled illegally to further EJ activities.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by Rudradev »

Sudarshan-ji, I think the "rice bag" is more metaphorical than that. It refers to any kind of financial inducement, social support, etc. that can be used to lure people to convert-- not necessarily only people who are starving or destitute.

In Punjab for example we saw large-scale heroin addiction become an endemic problem, affecting many middle-class and even wealthy families. Society is such that households rumored to have an addicted son or daughter become pariahs, either by isolating themselves out of shame, or because they are actively shunned from the extended family and community. Then of course there are all the financial and legal troubles that come with such a problem in the household.

Into this social vacuum came the Pretas. They offered consolation, companionship, drug-rehabilitation services, and a pathway to acceptance in a different society (the one that accepts JC as their lord and saviour). Many households gladly embraced this in place of the old society that had excluded them. Legal assistance and direct financial inducements were only part of what was offered.

These people are really, really good at taking advantages of emergent societal problems like drug addiction and also inherent societal weaknesses (such as treating drug addiction and other mental afflictions as taboos, and treating the families affected by them like lepers). It is no coincidence that the explosive growth of evangelical churches, preachers, and pastors in Punjab followed directly in the wake of the opioid epidemic. The cross-border drug trade had its role to play in this, as did successive state and central governments who either ignored the issue or (up to 2014) were perhaps complicit in letting it fester.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by rsingh »

Someone has to make documentaries on European empty churches . Bars and mosques have take over church buildings. Nobody care. Poland and Italy are bit different. If this religion was such great thing then European would have never abandoned it. Doesn't matter. You may wear suit and tie on Sunday service.......you do not become European (or Western). I have seen confused guy from Kerala who was more Belgian then Belgians..........wife kicked him out of her (actually his) house in the middle of night. Drives taxi these days and was seen at Gurudawara not long ago. There are plenty of examples. I have seen that in India are Christians more Christian (follow the rituals and traditions more sincerely then western Christians. There is a saying in North India.......Newly converted Muslim will eat Beef three times a day.
No offense to any Christians on BF. Post is based on my personal experience
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by hnair »

Regarding EJs and their modus operandi, that I have observed over past few years on the ground in Kerala and parts of South TN, let me xpost something I posted in the election thread, since it is more suited here:
hnair wrote:
OmkarC wrote:

Interesting.. but aren't the ordinary EJs & Catholic Abduls impacted at all by love-jihad ? Do these factions have any tacit understanding with Jihadis ?
Sorry for the late reply. The EJs and Vatican oriented believers are not free thinkers. They take their cue from a non-Indian heirarchy and hence wont open their mouth on love-jihad issues, unless their non-Indian religious superiors give clear directions. Right now there is no such direction.

The eastern-oriented churches of Kerala have their own top guy, residing and presiding in Kerala. Marthomite, the most independent minded of them all has its supreme head of the sect sitting in the city of Thiruvalla and is rather unfortunately called "Primate". The Orthodox has factions and both has its spiritual HQ at Kottayam and their most important pilgrim center at Parumala. Same with Jacobite faction, who hived off the Orthodox and has a running battle with them ongoing over church properties.

Here is a good diagram from wiki, about the historical factionalism of the Kerala churches (but does not include EJs, since they started sprouting more recently and is not an offshoot of any existing ones):

Image

But to make things easy:
- Whatever is suffixed or has "Catholic" is NEVER going to align with BJP and the leadership is tightly controlled by Vatican bureaucracy using a combination of international postings for the elders and sops like academic institution management positions. They will probably go to the unbelieving Commies, if Cong cease to be in power in Kerala. Infact they already are moving slowly to left since 2019 Lok Sabha, particularly the latin version among the coastal fishing communities.

- The rest are mostly older Eastern churches with minimal European influences and have imbibed a lot of Indian characteristics, out of which the Jacobite faction hates the current Kerala Govt for siding with the other side (orthodox) in implementing court orders and is openly aligning with BJP during the local body elections a few months back in December. Even among the orthodox/jacobite/marthoma factions, there was always a bit of support for BJP even in the 1980s. Back during those early days of BJP (there used to be an offshoot called Hindu Munnani, who stood for elections) we used to campaign for a candidate called Dr Rachel Mathai, who had the blessings of her church to contest. Also the late bureaucrat Dr Babu Paul was one of the most prominent supporter of BJP, even when in service.

Now on to the EJs:

Targeting older Kerala churches: When it comes to hollowing out the older Kerala churches, the EJs are like viruses in their propagation and there are not easily discernible hierarchies to target back. They insert their DNA into above list of existing churches (including vatican-oriented ones), convert the sick, weak and emotionally challenged into their sect and drain the church off its patrons, resulting in collapse of the existing order. Their targets are mostly rich, old and lonely but also actively court the poor with sops to generate the soul-harvest numbers. There are many ageing (wealthy) parents who felt abandoned by their children who migrated or is in another city. Then there are those who need social support, which the existing church clergy ignore unlike olden days. In the olden days, the older church clergy used to take care of these, when they were struggling to appear cooler than the upper caste Hindus etc (longer story :lol: ). But with rising power and pelf, they stopped caring for their laity and the EJs quietly move into that space for the kill. The EJs send already converted and brainwashed folks from similar backgrounds to the soul targeted for re-harvest, which are these vulnerable folks of older churches and give them company/relief etc. That is right - some of these vulnerable only need social contact, due to the loneliness caused by migration of Kerala's younger folks. I have heard of bitter family feuds between children and parents, when the RoL children return from far lands on vacation and find their parents turned into raging EJ zombies and in since cases have even turned over inheritance to the EJ.

Targeting vulnerable segments of Hindu society The other side that EJ has always been targeting are the classic conversion demographic, the disgruntled socially and economically struggling communities among Hindus. There the approach is entirely different - it is nowadays 100% about "raising self-esteem", because modern India has made the original EJ argument that caste oppression is permanent and economical, with implementation of job reservations etc. So they latch on to a topic that needs some introspection by all of us - participatory temple administration. The insertion team of EJs point out some vibrant local temple to these gullible folks and tell them they might be allowed into it nowadays, but wont be allowed to run them. They are right - a lot of these temples are run by familial networks and is predominantly uppercaste run. So the EJs provide an offer that cant be refused. Why dont we setup a prayer hall here and allow your thoroughly useless and academically uninspiring son to be its pastor? Usually they target the mother of the worst performing kid in the neighborhood and work with her to get the kid to utter biblical mumbo-jumbo (no one gives a shyte about clarity etc) in the prayer hall. That kid becomes "pastor" and slowly gets respected by those who come for prayers (and the free food). The kid becomes a bit of a legend (turned a leaf with help of EJs) and is "one among us, who earned respect". Ergo, EJ = good. From then on the kid will do all the work, so he can get his sustenance. Soon he will pull off the same shyte with some other gullible mother-son duo and form a pyramid. Another form of viral propagation

Summary: EJ in any part of India is NEVER going to allow BJP or the RSS to screw around with their game, even if it means RSS has explicitly said they want priests from all castes. Because it will cause their game of "bringing self-esteem to the neglected Hindu" to fail. Figuring out a way to challenge their model of propagation is a strategic need
rudradev, you are right about the bribes offered for soul harvesting have variations. For hindus, it is usually targeted at self-esteem, for the older church believers, it is lack of social contact.

What I have left out is that since the mixed success of Zenana Missions of british era, the EJ penetration among the RoPer community seem far less in Kerala. Primarily due to ghettoization. The EJs dont seem convinced that much to follow Jesus' death-wish teachings and go into a RoP ghetto to spread his word. The RoP ghetto vigorously and instantly reacts to these guys with visible impact on their health insurance premiums.

Not so with Hindu lower income colonies or non-vatican church RoLers of Kerala
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by sudarshan »

Rudradev wrote:Sudarshan-ji, I think the "rice bag" is more metaphorical than that. It refers to any kind of financial inducement, social support, etc. that can be used to lure people to convert-- not necessarily only people who are starving or destitute.
Sure, I get that. This is partly what I was talking about in my earlier post, how they go after people with mental problems or addictions. One might think that they are saddling their own side with liabilities, but like I said, they look to the future. So long as the kids are brought up their way, the future is secure, at that point, the original converts don't matter anymore. In many instances, they also create the problems to begin with.
In Punjab for example we saw large-scale heroin addiction become an endemic problem, affecting many middle-class and even wealthy families. Society is such that households rumored to have an addicted son or daughter become pariahs, either by isolating themselves out of shame, or because they are actively shunned from the extended family and community. Then of course there are all the financial and legal troubles that come with such a problem in the household.

Into this social vacuum came the Pretas. They offered consolation, companionship, drug-rehabilitation services, and a pathway to acceptance in a different society (the one that accepts JC as their lord and saviour). Many households gladly embraced this in place of the old society that had excluded them. Legal assistance and direct financial inducements were only part of what was offered.

These people are really, really good at taking advantages of emergent societal problems like drug addiction and also inherent societal weaknesses (such as treating drug addiction and other mental afflictions as taboos, and treating the families affected by them like lepers). It is no coincidence that the explosive growth of evangelical churches, preachers, and pastors in Punjab followed directly in the wake of the opioid epidemic. The cross-border drug trade had its role to play in this, as did successive state and central governments who either ignored the issue or (up to 2014) were perhaps complicit in letting it fester.
Yes it's sad. But one must admit that they are determined and dedicated.

So what I was saying was - the ricebagism is their current favored method, because it yields the best results in the current situation. In the past, violence worked, so they went with that. In the future, as and when the population progresses, ricebagism will give way to other techniques. They arm themselves with any and every weapon, if even one person falls for any particular tactic, they consider it worth the effort. As far as attacking SD scriptures themselves - it might not be the preferred method today, but it happens a lot. I've seen it happen to others; I've talked to others who didn't fall for it; and I've been subjected to sophisticated attacks several times myself, where the person tried to prove to me that SD was self-contradictory, or that SD itself indicated that it would be superseded at some point. The persons had considerable, though self-serving, knowledge of SD. So I still say - they have approaches which go far beyond ricebagism, and they customize those approaches. Ironical indeed, that their faith allows no customization, but bringing somebody to the fold is infinitely customizable.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by NRao »

hnair wrote:
Image
Castes? Not aware that Jesus Christ prescribed or encouraged castes.

That preceded by the longest feud: Sunnis/Shias, in human history!!! Still in progress.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by sanjaykumar »

Christianity has to do with god- really this god’s personality.

Hinduism has more to do with man.


Christian dubiety pertaining to internally consistent narratives has not been an issue since rational men were permitted to examine the book as an anthropological artefact, perhaps 140 years ago.


If god is good and all powerful and loves man, why evil? Unless god is not powerful. That is god is not god.
If there is one god, who is Jesus? Thus god is not god.


So we have the problem of the devil and Jesus. As well as the Holy Ghost along with that matter of pathogenesis. Primitive religions according to the believers have many gods. The hierarchy of angels, actually a caste system of angels seems suspiciously close to god- beings. Then there are the lesser gods of the saints, including one for hemorrhoids.

We have even more fundamental problems. If Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected, he didn’t (die for our sins).

If he is god then he knew he would be killed. But he let himself be killed. For what purpose? But he didn’t die so why did he claim he would be killed?

A respectful request, read the book. Or read the numerous western critiques of it. Don’t get too excited by conversions. They are not accepting anything but membership in a cult. Recall, I have posted previously the sina qua non of cults.

Recruitment, retention and the conviction that nonbelievers will meet with a catastrophe.


Can the average young Indian who converts follow these steps of logic? No. Not without guidance. One admittedly needs a fair degree of sophistication to appreciate these arguments.

Indians need to ask what is driving these people to a serially borrowed creed? The answer is too obvious to belabour. There is a malaise in society. One needs to have pride in one’s society and pride of place to cherish autochthonous beliefs.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by sanjaykumar »

What are the virtues of the believers? Possibly some good works.

Certainly the fact that one can subject the creed to intellectual dissection and be assured believers will not launch a crusade (again).

The virtues are palpable when contrasted with the other desert culture. No comparison.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by srikandan »

Catherine Nixey's "The darkening age" shows the real face of christianity and how it has wiped out native cultures worldwide, and "digested" the cultural practices of the indigenous people after they were wiped out. In Ancient Rome, as they built their following, they created grave yards all over blocking non-believers from reaching their temples -- this was one of the examples in this book. No coincidence that this religion occupies a large fraction of the earth's surface today.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by sanjaykumar »

^^pathogenesia is autocorrected from parthenogenesis.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by Haresh »

Dalit Catholics continue to battle upper caste aggression

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/da ... qQLUJ.html
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by Vayutuvan »

shravanp wrote:A friend of mine (Catholic) said the only people you see in Church these days are adivasis and dalits. Regular folks like him hardly visit Church (as per him).
He uses fighting words - who are not "adivasis" are "settlers"? "Dalits" are the "oppressed". :((
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by Maria »

In line with the last 2 posts, I strongly believe that the Dalits are much less susceptible to deracination than the upper castes. Sure, they may have changed their religion on the surface however have they really changed their beliefs overnight? I remember reading somewhere that there was a time when people were proud of their 'castes' as it never occurred to them that they were 'lowborn'.

If you ever engage one in a prolonged debate about the reasons for them converting, they will cough out the truth in no time about their exact motivations (rice bag, cash dole-outs etc.)

Subtle kindness and channeled motivation is enough for them to admit erring on their judgement. I once challenged a group of converts from a nearby slum (all were acquaintances) from Hinduism to Christianity on their motivations and tried enlightening them with the following steps:

1st step - was to gleam the exact reason for conversion
2nd step - involved making them remember happy childhood memories of Hindu festivals
3rd step - was to point out that the leaders in the Church are not one of them (they are usually of high caste [take a look at the leadership of any church in India]) and also that the funds come from powers that once enslaved us
4th step - was to make them feel okay about what they have done by telling them it is totally natural (I never play the blame game)
5th step - educating them on the fact that if anyone claiming to be wanting to help you asks you to change something about identity, it has to be solely for selfish and nefarious reasons. I followed up by telling them that real Samaritans would never ever ask for something in return (the churches take a commission on the earnings, this has been discussed here)
6th step - I asked them to continue seeking help from the Church (why turn off the candy supply when you can't replace it yourself) however I asked them remember who they are
7th step - invited them to my place for lunch and spoke further on meeting during festivals

At worst, this disarms them and warms their cockles in reconnecting to their roots. Roots play a big role in defining our sub-consciousness.

If the above steps could be reinforced with some funding, the issue of uncontrolled conversion to alien thought systems can be rolled back.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by AshishA »

deborishig wrote:In line with the last 2 posts, I strongly believe that the Dalits are much less susceptible to deracination than the upper castes. Sure, they may have changed their religion on the surface however have they really changed their beliefs overnight? I remember reading somewhere that there was a time when people were proud of their 'castes' as it never occurred to them that they were 'lowborn'.

If you ever engage one in a prolonged debate about the reasons for them converting, they will cough out the truth in no time about their exact motivations (rice bag, cash dole-outs etc.)

Subtle kindness and channeled motivation is enough for them to admit erring on their judgement. I once challenged a group of converts from a nearby slum (all were acquaintances) from Hinduism to Christianity on their motivations and tried enlightening them with the following steps:

1st step - was to gleam the exact reason for conversion
2nd step - involved making them remember happy childhood memories of Hindu festivals
3rd step - was to point out that the leaders in the Church are not one of them (they are usually of high caste [take a look at the leadership of any church in India]) and also that the funds come from powers that once enslaved us
4th step - was to make them feel okay about what they have done by telling them it is totally natural (I never play the blame game)
5th step - educating them on the fact that if anyone claiming to be wanting to help you asks you to change something about identity, it has to be solely for selfish and nefarious reasons. I followed up by telling them that real Samaritans would never ever ask for something in return (the churches take a commission on the earnings, this has been discussed here)
6th step - I asked them to continue seeking help from the Church (why turn off the candy supply when you can't replace it yourself) however I asked them remember who they are
7th step - invited them to my place for lunch and spoke further on meeting during festivals

At worst, this disarms them and warms their cockles in reconnecting to their roots. Roots play a big role in defining our sub-consciousness.

If the above steps could be reinforced with some funding, the issue of uncontrolled conversion to alien thought systems can be rolled back.
A very good approach deborishig ji. I tried it, it was working but one day that person was so much brainwashed by the church that it was like dealing with a fanatic hell bent on saving my soul (out of care I think aka that person really believed I was going to hell). Even normal conversations turned out to be a trying-to-convert session. It was frustrating and hence I ended all communication. One thing that might have resulted in such fanaticism might that the mental issues like depression this person was suffering from and hence she might have been willing to accept the God, savior, Jesus, damnation etc. as a desperate measure to improve her situation.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by Maria »

That's awesome Ashish Sir, no ji for me please, I think the cancer was in its last stage and she had gone beyond the point of return. Maybe there was monetary incentives in her harvesting souls for her overlords. Did you try asking her if she was okay condemning all her innocent ancestors to hell since they did not accept the 'one true god' even if they had never harmed a soul?

My humble 2 paisa is to lay eggs in their sub-consciousness for it to hatch later because that is precisely the technique used by the Abrahamics (more so of RoL compared to brute force insults of RoP).

If Sanatanis as a whole were more trained and organized like Arya Samajis and brothers from the VHP, we could have a dedicated cadre to roll back this desertification of the Indian spiritual landscape. I have no doubt in it.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by AshishA »

deborishig wrote:That's awesome Ashish Sir, no ji for me please, I think the cancer was in its last stage and she had gone beyond the point of return. Maybe there was monetary incentives in her harvesting souls for her overlords. Did you try asking her if she was okay condemning all her innocent ancestors to hell since they did not accept the 'one true god' even if they had never harmed a soul?

My humble 2 paisa is to lay eggs in their sub-consciousness for it to hatch later because that is precisely the technique used by the Abrahamics (more so of RoL compared to brute force insults of RoP).

If Sanatanis as a whole were more trained and organized like Arya Samajis and brothers from the VHP, we could have a dedicated cadre to roll back this desertification of the Indian spiritual landscape. I have no doubt in it.
I don't think there was any monetary incentive because she belonged to a well to do family. I did ask that question about the ancestors and she replied that their sins will be washed off because she had embraced Christ or something like that. Then proceeded to spam me a Bible copy along with a american youtuber/preacher etc talking about how every science and every religion came from Christianity. Just like Maulanas claiming Quran gave us various scientific theories.

I believe the reason behind this big change in her behavior might be because the church exploited a mentally troubled and vulnerable individual to do their bidding. It would have been okay if it actually helped her mentally but to turn her into this fanatic trying to convert everyone is exploitation and nothing else.

I certainly agree with you that sanatanis need to be trained. And trained fast. Once the second or third generation embraces full Christianity, I believe Vatican will leave no stone unturned to make them fanatics. From what I gather from her, in Nepal, situation is very grim. Entire towns and villages are converted all at once. Even though they have Hindu sounding names, they are fast transforming or already have transformed into a Christian country and losing all connections to their native culture.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by sanjaykumar »

I would strongly advise People to become acquainted with a nun.

For an insight into the soldiers of Christ. Perhaps these nuns derive benefits from the order, belonging, sisterhood, welfare. I certainly do not begrudge them such benefits. The Church has a long history of exploiting mentally troubled or compromised individuals.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by darshan »

How many anti vaccination campaigns ran by criminals in these states to go along with the govt machineries to generate wastage?

Similar to various bible pockets in US
Jharkhand wasted 37.3% vaccines, Chhattisgarh 30.2%, much higher than national average of 6.3%
https://www.opindia.com/2021/05/jharkha ... e-wastage/
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by chiru »

On Ram navami 21 April 21 near west sikkim, saw a huge gathering, it was like a party and gues what were they celebrating - hallelujah power. It's happening blatantly.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by chetak »

Image
sanjaykumar
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by sanjaykumar »

Some breathtakingly stupid people.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by sanjaykumar »

He needs to get out of medicine and treat people in churches.
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by chetak »

sanjaykumar wrote:Some breathtakingly stupid people.
think of the BIF forces that actually put him there and empowered this woke punk by giving him a platform

this is not a mere coincidence to have such a gawar in such a lucrative position.

It requires vast amounts of money to fight this particular "election" and it has huge potential for vast payback in the medical college racket
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Post by sanjaykumar »

It’s not just this IMA head.

In Canada Britain such a head of a medical organisation would be required to demonstrate his fitness to practice medicine.


Even in the US, he would be encouraged to find a more appropriate calling.


But it is India where such men of god are indulged. It isn’t just the villagers that constitute a preliterate society.
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