Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

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JE Menon
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JE Menon » 11 Oct 2015 22:03

Jhujar that picture has nothing to do with the thread - or if it has, you must say what it is. This sort of thing will only derail the thread's focus otherwise. No further comments on that image unless there is a clarification from Jhujar what that picture is about other than "part of the worship in this church" - because if it's only that it is none of our business.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JwalaMukhi » 17 Oct 2015 04:07

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/catholi ... 25836.html
A pregnant woman who was denied a life-saving medical procedure at a Catholic hospital is fighting back with the aid of the American Civil Liberties Union, which filed a formal complaint on Wednesday.

The woman, Jessica Mann, of Flushing, Mich. (pictured above with her family), has a life-threatening brain tumor and was advised by her doctor to undergo tubal ligation (get her tubes tied) when she has her scheduled C-section — tentatively scheduled for Friday — as any future pregnancies could be fatal. But the Catholic Genesys Hospital in Grand Blanc refused multiple times to allow the procedure, citing religious directives that the sterilizing procedure is “intrinsically evil,” despite the fact that it has granted exceptions to patients in the past.


Remember the tragic murder death of Savita Halappanavar, where the wing-nuts scratch that, it is the main stream staple of special ROL countries.
http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uplo ... anavar.jpg
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JwalaMukhi » 17 Oct 2015 20:17

Well, lootyens factory continues in its sophisticated evangelical drive.
Eat your hearts out evil pagans and learn how it is done.
That's how jizya is paid by pagans, to be spit on them.
Tax payers funds 95% of this Lootyens factory's expenditure, but one better be a Believer, if one wants to be a principal.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRg8y4tVEAAN_JE.jpg
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https://twitter.com/Sharanyashettyy/sta ... 3632312320

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby akashganga » 20 Oct 2015 05:23

Sri Sri Ravi Shankar miffed with the Pope http://www.mid-day.com/articles/sri-sri ... e/16571168

This is very relevant to this thread. This shows how catholic church uses dirty tactics to deny and prevent indian influence. They used brutal tactics to eliminate native peoples and native religions of americas.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby chetak » 20 Oct 2015 10:41

Mahaveer
‏@MahaveerM_
State Sponsored Conversions by Kerala State Govt!
Loan Waiver Schemes Only if ur a Convert,Pray Jesus
#WakeUpHindus

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Supratik » 20 Oct 2015 15:52

This may be to stop reconversions of SC Christians. Last one year has seen hundreds of dalit christians reconvert to hinduism. Orders may have come from higher ups both abroad and in the Cong (MQ).

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby member_29089 » 21 Oct 2015 13:17

Question for pundits. Evangelists often use the word "born again" for those who have converted to Xtianity. In Upanishads there is a word Dvija (twice-born) for those initiated into the thread-ceremony. Is it possible that the concept and the word has been stolen by the missionaries for their ulterior motives?

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby akashganga » 25 Oct 2015 18:25

Kerala Film Festival Rejects World's Third Sanskrit Film "Priyamanasam" for showcasing Hindu Deities
http://www.hinduismtoday.com/blogs-news ... 14683.html

This is very relevant to this thread. This happened due to soft power of the keralite christians. Kerala has not had hindu CM for a long time. Most of the time kerala CMs were either athiests (CPM) or christians.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby arun » 25 Oct 2015 19:40

akashganga wrote:Kerala has not had hindu CM for a long time. Most of the time kerala CMs were either athiests (CPM) or christians.


Interesting point you have raised. I checked. Presuming the CPI (M) CM's were as all good Marxists, Atheists or is the in vogue term Rationalist, then there has been no Hindu CM since 16 March 1995 when Mr. K. Karunakaran ended his term in office.

See here : Wiki

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby vishvak » 25 Oct 2015 22:03

akashganga wrote:Kerala Film Festival Rejects World's Third Sanskrit Film "Priyamanasam" for showcasing Hindu Deities
http://www.hinduismtoday.com/blogs-news ... 14683.html

This is very relevant to this thread. This happened due to soft power of the keralite christians. Kerala has not had hindu CM for a long time. Most of the time kerala CMs were either athiests (CPM) or christians.

The movie is not banned because of any hatred in content but because pseudo seculars' hatred against the movie. Hitler's own country needs some solid amount of social reforms, and Hindus need to increase their strength against pseudo secularists.

I think this is to make people ignore cultural richness, so that when attacked directly/indirectly, the people may not take any action against any barbarians attacking local cultures.

The pseudo secularism needs to be culled at its base, though not sure if some international people i.e. Americans/Europeans promoting such international film fests will line up to return international awards.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby akashganga » 26 Oct 2015 04:38

arun wrote:
akashganga wrote:Kerala has not had hindu CM for a long time. Most of the time kerala CMs were either athiests (CPM) or christians.


Interesting point you have raised. I checked. Presuming the CPI (M) CM's were as all good Marxists, Atheists or is the in vogue term Rationalist, then there has been no Hindu CM since 16 March 1995 when Mr. K. Karunakaran ended his term in office.

See here : Wiki

The reason for having only christian CMs in kerala is because of current congress. The present day congress is not the same as the congress of Gandhiji, Patel, Ambedkar, Tilak, Rai, etc. The congress of today has been taken over by a small gang headed by italian born christian Sonia. The congress of Mahatma is run by such people. This is a tragedy. Hopefully another true Gandhiji will emerge and take back congress from these people.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby member_19686 » 26 Oct 2015 20:58

THE PENTAGON’S MISSIONARY SPIES
U.S. Military Used Christian NGO as Front for North Korea Espionage

ON MAY 10, 2007, in the East Room of the White House, President George W. Bush presided over a ceremony honoring the nation’s most accomplished community service leaders. Among those collecting a President’s Volunteer Service Award that afternoon was Kay Hiramine, the Colorado-based founder of a multimillion-dollar humanitarian organization.

Hiramine’s NGO, Humanitarian International Services Group, or HISG, won special praise from the president for having demonstrated how a private charity could step in quickly in response to a crisis. “In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina,” read Hiramine’s citation, “HISG’s team launched a private sector operation center in Houston that mobilized over 1,500 volunteers into the disaster zone within one month after the hurricane.”

But as the evangelical Christian Hiramine crossed the stage to shake hands with President Bush and receive his award, he was hiding a key fact from those in attendance: He was a Pentagon spy whose NGO was funded through a highly classified Defense Department program.

The secret Pentagon program, which dates back to December 2004, continued well into the Obama presidency.
It was the brainchild of a senior Defense Department intelligence official of the Bush administration, Lt. Gen. William “Jerry” Boykin. Boykin, an evangelical Christian who ran into criticism in 2003 for his statements about Islam, settled on the ruse of the NGO as he was seeking new and unorthodox ways to penetrate North Korea.

Long a source of great concern to the U.S. and Western Europe because of its nuclear program, North Korea was the most difficult intelligence target for the U.S. “We had nothing inside North Korea,” one former military official familiar with U.S. efforts in the country told me. “Zero.” But Hiramine’s NGO, by offering humanitarian aid to the country’s desperate population, was able to go where others could not.

It is unclear how many HISG executives beyond Hiramine knew about the operation; Hiramine did not respond to repeated requests for comment and neither did any of his senior colleagues. Few, if any, of the rest of the organization’s staff and volunteers had any knowledge about its role as a Pentagon front, according to former HISG employees and former military officials.

The revelation that the Pentagon used an NGO and unwitting humanitarian volunteers for intelligence gathering is the result of a monthslong investigation by The Intercept. In the course of the investigation, more than a dozen current and former military and intelligence officials, humanitarian aid workers, missionaries, U.S. officials, and former HISG staffers were interviewed. The U.S. government officials who were familiar with the Pentagon operation and HISG’s role asked for anonymity because discussing classified military and intelligence matters would put them at risk of prosecution. The Pentagon had no comment on HISG or the espionage operations in North Korea.

Before it was finally dismantled in 2013, Hiramine’s organization received millions in funding from the Pentagon through a complex web of organizations designed to mask the origin of the cash, according to one of the former military officials familiar with the program, as well as documentation reviewed for this article.

The use of HISG for espionage was “beyond the pale” of what the U.S. government should be allowed to do, said Sam Worthington, president of InterAction, an association of nearly 200 American NGOs. The practice of using humanitarian workers as spies “violates international principles” and puts legitimate aid and development workers at risk, he argued.

“It is unacceptable that the Pentagon or any other U.S. agency use nonprofits for intelligence gathering,” Worthington said. “It is a violation of the basic trust between the U.S. government and its civic sector.”

HISG WAS ESTABLISHED shortly after 9/11, when Hiramine led a group of three friends in creating a humanitarian organization that they hoped could provide disaster relief and sustainable development in poor and war-torn countries around the world, according to the organization’s incorporation documents.

In its first two years, HISG was little more than a fledgling faith-based charity. Just after the U.S. invaded Afghanistan, Hiramine and his friends shipped medical supplies to a hospital there. By 2003, HISG had collaborated with a small Pentagon group called the Afghanistan Reachback Office, which was set up to coordinate reconstruction activities.

That same year, Boykin was named deputy in the newly created office of the undersecretary of defense for intelligence. Boykin had a special operations career that spanned many of the U.S. military’s most high-risk missions prior to 9/11. He served as commander of the Army’s most elite unit, commonly known as Delta Force, and oversaw the Black Hawk Down mission in Somalia in 1993 and the hunt for Pablo Escobar in Colombia.

With the war on terror intensifying, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld charged Boykin and his superior, Stephen Cambone, with the task of increasing the department’s ability to conduct intelligence operations independent from the CIA. Cambone and Boykin concluded that the Pentagon had ceded too much of its intelligence-gathering role in the preceding decades to the CIA, and it was time to recalibrate the balance. The CIA was kept in the loop. Within a year of his arrival to his new position at the Pentagon, Boykin dispatched a Pentagon staffer to the CIA to help coordinate the new and increased human intelligence operations abroad.
According to former military officials, Boykin took a page from the CIA’s playbook and looked for ways to provide cover for Pentagon espionage operations. Hiramine’s group was one of several NGOs used by the Pentagon in this way. Some, like HISG, already existed as fledgling organizations, while others were created from scratch by the Pentagon.


The espionage effort was one of the most secretive programs at the Pentagon, called an unacknowledged and waived “special access program,” or SAP. The designation meant that Defense Secretary Rumsfeld was required only to brief the chair and ranking members of both appropriations and armed services committees, who were not allowed to take notes or bring in staffers.

The Defense Department intelligence operations primarily focused on counterterrorism, but the efforts also extended to Iran and North Korea, where the military sought elusive intelligence on those countries’ nuclear programs.

That’s where HISG came in.


At the time the Pentagon program launched, the NGO had been responsible for many shipments of medical equipment, clothing, and disaster relief supplies around the world.

On at least one occasion in the period between 2004 and 2006, Hiramine, through HISG, helped coordinate a humanitarian shipment to North Korea.

The charity’s offer of donated clothing was the kind of faith-based donation the North Korean government would occasionally accept to help its population endure the country’s harsh winters. Unbeknownst to the North Korean government, however, underneath the clothing was a hidden compartment containing scores of bibles.

Shipping bibles into North Korea was risky — North Korea severely restricts any religious activities that deviate from communist ideology. But that was the point — if Hiramine’s bibles could make it, the Pentagon would know that it could use the same smuggling method to get military sensors and equipment into the country.

“We sent the bibles in as a test run,” a former senior Pentagon official told me. “They got through without the North Koreans discovering them.”


The Pentagon tasked Hiramine with gathering the intelligence it needed inside North Korea, and Hiramine would in turn utilize HISG’s access to the country to complete the assignments, according to two former military officials with knowledge of the effort. Hiramine, in his role as CEO of HISG, tapped Christian missionaries, aid workers, and Chinese smugglers to move equipment into and around North Korea — none of whom had any idea that they were part of a secret Pentagon operation.

On at least two different occasions, in 2007 and again in 2010, Hiramine entered North Korea under humanitarian cover, according to a former HISG employee familiar with his travel. HISG documents show that the organization boasted of having shipped winter clothing, including “ski jackets,” into North Korea during the NGO’s first 10 years of operation.

Because American intelligence has so few assets inside North Korea, much of Hiramine’s task was to find transportation routes to move military equipment — and potentially clandestine operatives — in and around the country. The Pentagon would eventually move sensors and small radio beacons through Hiramine’s transportation network, according to another former military official. Much of what Hiramine was doing was what the military refers to as “operational preparation of the environment,” or OPE, a category that encompasses clandestine intelligence gathering and prepositioning equipment inside a country for future conflicts.

“We needed collection devices, spoofers” — used to disrupt North Korean military devices or radio signals — “and [equipment] to measure nuclear anomalies,” the same former military official told me. The military hardware also included shortwave radios that could be used to help a downed pilot to escape in the event of a future conflict with North Korea.

None of the former officials with knowledge of the program whom I spoke with would say where exactly the equipment was positioned or describe the intelligence that Hiramine was able to gather, citing the sensitivity of the matter. But two former officials said the intelligence and the network used to gain access inside the country were formally distributed to the CIA in what the U.S. intelligence community calls IIRs, or “intelligence information reports,” indicating the CIA was aware the Pentagon was using an NGO to conduct the operations. The CIA referred all questions about Hiramine’s intelligence reports to the Pentagon.

“If true, to use unwitting aid workers on behalf of an intelligence operation, people who genuinely do humanitarian work, to turn their efforts into intel collection is unacceptable,” said Rep. Jan Schakowsky, who served on the House Intelligence Committee from 2007 until this year. Schakowsky said she was unaware of the program, and unaware of any briefings given to the committee chair and ranking members.

“Now we have people who have been hired to do some good work and become unwitting accomplices to an intelligence mission? They can face all kinds of retaliation. It is completely unacceptable,” Schakowsky said.

IT IS UNCLEAR how exactly Hiramine became involved in the Pentagon espionage effort, but his nonprofit presented a convenient vehicle for the Pentagon to hide intelligence-gathering missions and shipments of clandestine military equipment into denied areas.

Using an approach pioneered by the CIA, the Pentagon obscured the origin of the funding for the organization. “If you expose the money, you expose the network,” said a former military official who is critical of the program’s lack of oversight.

The organization received one stream of funding via a for-profit company called Private Sector Consulting, which was run by Hiramine, his partner Michael McCausland, and other HISG executives, and shared addresses and phone numbers with HISG in Colorado, according to public records. HISG reported in 2009 that it had no paid employees; its 30 staffers were designated “volunteers.” According to three people who worked for HISG, however, the salaries and benefits of the NGO’s employees were paid by the consulting firm. In 2009, for example, tax records show that Hiramine drew no salary as the head of Humanitarian International Services Group, yet earned $281,351 from Private Sector Consulting.

“It was our pure funding that made” HISG, one of the former military officials told me, explaining how the Pentagon provided the money for salaries to Private Sector Consulting.

A second revenue stream arrived at HISG via a private trust and another nonprofit, Working Partners Foundation, which was incorporated in late 2004, around the same time that Private Sector Consulting was launched and the Pentagon program was rolled out.

Here’s how it worked.

The Pentagon funneled money to the private fund, which was run out of a law office in Minnetonka, Minnesota, according to a former military official familiar with the arrangement. The fund, called New Millennium Trust, was run by retired Army Col. Thomas Lujan.

Lujan also had a historical distinction, according to an online bio: He was the first military lawyer assigned to Delta Force — and would have known Boykin most of his professional career. According to a public website, Lujan, who retired in 1998, still maintains top-secret government clearance. Lujan declined to comment.

Next, according to tax filings, New Millennium Trust would donate money to Working Partners Foundation, which was run by a prominent Colorado car dealer named Yale King starting in October 2004. King was also a “dear friend” of Boykin. In his autobiography, Never Surrender, Boykin recalled receiving a fax from King while recuperating from an injury sustained during an attack on the U.S. base at Mogadishu’s airport. The fax consisted of a single Biblical verse. “I can’t explain why Yale sent that fax halfway around the world when he did,” Boykin wrote, “but I felt it was exactly the message God wanted me to hear.”
By 2006, responsibility for the program shifted away from Boykin. He retired in the summer of 2007. But the former military official critical of the effort called the HISG operation a “jobs program” for Boykin’s friends and former military colleagues. Boykin did not respond to requests for comment.

King earned $252,000 as the director of Working Partners Foundation in 2006. According to tax records, New Millennium Trust was the sole funder of Working Partners Foundation. The Pentagon money passed through King’s foundation, which made donations to Hiramine and HISG. In total, New Millennium Trust gave Working Partners Foundation $11.9 million between 2005 and 2014. Working Partners Foundation, in turn, passed $6.5 million to HISG between 2005 and 2012, according to tax filings.

To help Working Partners maintain the appearance of a legitimate charity, each year the foundation donated smaller amounts of cash to bona fide NGOs, such as Catholic Relief Services
, which says it had no knowledge of any Pentagon link to the money. In at least one case, according to tax filings, Working Partners gave roughly $200,000 to a U.S.-based ministry that “deliver[s] Bibles … to the persecuted church in the Gospel restricted nation of North Korea.” Working Partners also funneled almost $500,000 to a medical charity run by Yale King’s wife in the first five years after Working Partners was established, according to tax records.

(King eventually moved Working Partners to Palm Beach, Florida, where it was transferred to a tax and estate lawyer named Robert Simses. Simses declined to comment, and King did not respond to multiple requests.)

One of the former military officials estimated that the Pentagon provided at least $15 million to HISG over the course of the program through these revenue streams.

“Kay never talked about where we got our funding from,” said Tom Jennings, who worked as HISG’s Asia program director for six years. “And I never felt that I was supposed to ask about it.” Jennings said he didn’t know that Hiramine had worked for the Pentagon on a secret espionage program, and now fears the revelations that HISG was funded by the Pentagon could taint the legitimate disaster relief and development programs he helped lead.

According to Hiramine’s LinkedIn profile, Private Sector Consulting “provided support services,” such as disaster response, to government agencies including the Department of Homeland Security, Department of Defense, and FEMA.

“I warned them they had to keep Private Sector Consulting separate,” said a former HISG employee, who was familiar with some of the contracts with the U.S. government. (This individual still works in humanitarian aid and did not want to be publicly associated with a Pentagon espionage program so was granted anonymity.) The former employee “didn’t have a clue” the nonprofit group was fronting for the Pentagon.

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ASIDE FROM HIRAMINE and possibly other top executives, those who worked for HISG were never aware they were involved in a Pentagon intelligence program, or that Hiramine was working for the U.S. government, according to two former military officials.

“They were never witting,” said the former senior Pentagon official. “That was the point.”

In all, HISG operated in more than 30 countries, significantly funded by the Pentagon.

According to former employees, public records, and HISG’s former website, the nonprofit conducted disaster relief; provided food, medical supplies, and clothing; and helped start small businesses in countries including Niger, Mali, Ethiopia, Kenya, Iran, Lebanon, Yemen, and China.

“They gave us a tremendous latitude to do tremendous amounts of good,” Jennings said. “We were able to go to the poor in villages, train them how to start businesses and create jobs, so that they could begin to lift themselves out of poverty and regain their self-dignity. Looking back, that was one of the most fulfilling times in my life.”

But behind all the global charity work was an ulterior motive for military officials: The longer HISG operated and became more legitimate, the more opportunities would be available to U.S. military and intelligence officials to run operations in other countries as they had in North Korea. In other words, Hiramine’s ability to use HISG to form partnerships and working relationships with other unsuspecting aid workers and missionaries would give the Pentagon more places to spy, according to one of the former military officials. That official would not say whether Hiramine was tasked with operating in countries besides North Korea.

Hiramine and HISG were successful enough in their humanitarian efforts to garner that 2007 honor, the President’s Volunteer Service Award. It is not known if the White House was aware that HISG was part of a Pentagon program.

“If these people had been caught and tried and executed in downtown Pyongyang you’d really understand the risk,” said Robert Baer, a retired CIA officer who spent more than 20 years conducting espionage operations.

Using humanitarian and aid workers for gathering intelligence has always been risky. U.S. intelligence policy prohibits using American clergy, journalists, or Peace Corps volunteers as a cover to conduct espionage. Using NGOs is not strictly prohibited, but though it is not unprecedented, it is dangerous.

In recent years, the risk of using legitimate aid workers as cover for spying has had deadly repercussions.

In 2011, the CIA directed a Pakistani doctor to collect DNA samples of the suspected family members of Osama bin Laden under the guise of a hepatitis vaccination program in Abbottabad, Pakistan. After the raid, the Pakistani doctor was arrested and imprisoned by Pakistani authorities, and the Taliban later killed several medical professionals who were trying to conduct polio eradication campaigns, along with their guards.

The Taliban claimed the vaccination program was part of a Western intelligence plot. Cases of polio, which has been eradicated in almost every country in the world, have spiked in Pakistan in recent years. In 2014, a White House adviser informed U.S. public health school deans that the CIA is no longer allowed to use vaccination programs as an intelligence cover.

“The reward is almost zero given the risk because using NGOs — especially unwitting [ones] — produces very weak intelligence,” said Robert Baer, the retired CIA officer. “This is pure Graham Greene, Our Man in Havana stuff,” he continued, referring to the farcical tale of a vacuum cleaner salesman who was recruited to spy on Cuba’s missile program.

DESPITE STARTING DURING the Bush presidency, the North Korea espionage program continued through Obama’s first term. It’s unclear if the president was briefed. The White House declined to comment.

In 2012, now-retired Adm. William McRaven, the commander of the Special Operations Command in Tampa, Florida, who oversaw the Osama bin Laden raid, shut down the North Korea spying program.

“McRaven told us he shut it down because he was nervous about the flap if it ever got out that the Pentagon had used a bunch of evangelicals and missionaries as spies,” said one former military officer, adding that if the program had produced better intelligence McRaven would have considered keeping it up and running. McRaven did not respond to a request for comment.
In January 2013, Hiramine and his fellow HISG executives announced to their employees that they were shuttering the organization. “We got no warning,” said Jennings, the former HISG program director. “We had no jobs, no severance, and no explanation. All they said was ‘we lost our funding.’”

According to Working Partners Foundation tax returns, 2013 was the first year since it began operating in 2005 that no funds were given to HISG. Instead, the nonprofit gave roughly $700,000 — funds that were likely allocated before McRaven ordered the program ended — to a range of relief and nonprofit groups, including a Washington-based defense think tank.

Some of HISG’s infrastructure remained, but Hiramine left and his main partner, Michael McCausland, transformed what was left of HISG into a new organization called Sustainable Communities Worldwide.

With HISG gone, the Pentagon began to dismantle the funding mechanisms that propped up the organization.

Private Sector Consulting was dissolved in December 2013, and this year, for the first time since it was created, Working Partners Foundation did not receive any money from New Millennium Trust.

According to tax filings, Working Partners wrote one final check for $475,500 to the Bureau of the Fiscal Service, a division of the Treasury Department, earlier this year. “The board of directors elected to terminate the foundation and pay all funds remaining to the United States treasury to be used to reduce the public debt,” according to public tax records. Working Partners was dissolved in January.

In other words, Working Partners gave its remaining funds as a gift to the federal government, a strange move for a private foundation — though not, perhaps, for one serving as cover for a now-terminated Pentagon program.

Margot Williams contributed to this report.

https://theintercept.com/2015/10/26/pen ... espionage/

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby member_19686 » 27 Oct 2015 04:36

Tracking Evangelism
‏@trackevangelism
The NGO that was used for spying in N.Korea also claims in its Form-990 it worked in India http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2 ... 5d21-9.pdf

Image

https://twitter.com/trackevangelism/sta ... 3248683008

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby A_Gupta » 07 Dec 2015 18:46

Six Christian terrorist organizations:
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politi ... hear-about

1. The Army of God
2. Eastern Lightning a.k.a. Church of the Almighty God
3. The Lord's Resistance Army
4. The National Liberation Front of Tripura
5. The Phineas Priesthood
6. The Concerned Christians

Some info. about each at the link above.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby RoyG » 10 Dec 2015 00:53

Icelanders flock to religion revering Sumerian gods and tax rebates

Ancient Zuist movement enjoys revival as thousands join as part of protest against requirement that citizens pay taxes to state church

Icelanders opposed to the state funding of religion have flocked to register as Zuists, a movement that worships ancient Sumerian gods and – perhaps more importantly – promises its followers a tax rebate.

More than 3,100 people – almost 1% of Iceland’s population – have joined the Zuist movement in the past two weeks in protest at paying part of their taxes to the state church and other religious bodies. Followers of Zuism will be refunded the tax element earmarked for religion.

Icelanders are required to register their religion with the state, with almost three-quarters of the population affiliated to the established Evangelical Lutheran Church of Iceland. There are more than 40 other registered religious bodies that qualify for “parish fees” paid through the taxation system. The amount set in next year’s budget is the equivalent of about $80 (£53) per taxpayer over a year.

“There is no opt-out. Those who are unaffiliated or belong to unregistered religions effectively just pay higher taxes,” said Sveinn Thorhallsson, a Zuist spokesperson. An opinion poll published in September showed 55% of respondents want an end to the system.

Zuism, based on the worship of Sumerian gods, registered as a religion in Iceland in 2013. But inactivity put it at risk of being de-registered by the authorities earlier this year.

A group of citizens opposed to the state funding of religion mounted a takeover, promising converts that they would be refunded their parish fees.

The English section of the Zuists’ website says: “The religious organisation of Zuism is a platform for its members to practise a religion of the ancient Sumerian people. Zuists fully support freedom of religion, and from religion, for everyone. The organisation’s primary objective is that the government repeal any law that grants religious organisations privilege, financial or otherwise, above other organisations. Furthermore Zuists demand that the government’s registry of its citizens’ religion will be abolished.”

Zuism, it adds, “will cease to exist when its objectives have been met”.

Some politicians have claimed that Zuism should be de-registered because it is not a true religion. “But the real question is, what is a true religious organisation and how do you measure belief?” said Thorhallsson, who describes himself as agnostic.

Perhaps surprisingly, some newly registered Zuists were also showing an interest in Sumerian worship, he added. “We had a service, with a reading of ancient Sumerian poetry. We’re planning another.”

According to article 62 of the constitution, the Evangelical Lutheran Church “shall be the State Church in Iceland and, as such, it shall be supported and protected by the State”.

Thorhallsson said: “We want people at the very least to be able to opt out [of the parish fee].” He added it was equally important that “in a modern society the state should not keep a register of people’s religious beliefs”.

Stefán Bogi Sveinsson of the Progressive party urged the Zuists to de-register as a religious movement. “No one has registered in the organisation to practice Zuism itself,” he wrote, according to a report in the Reykjavik Grapevine. “Their reasons for registering are rather twofold: to get money in their pockets, or to protest against current legislation about religious organisations.”

The Evangelical Lutheran Church had no one available to comment.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/d ... ates-zuism

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby A_Gupta » 10 Dec 2015 22:57

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35061357
Catholics should not try to convert Jews, Vatican says
The Vatican has told Catholics that they should not seek to convert Jews and stressed that the two faiths have a "unique" relationship.

It is seen as a new Vatican attempt to distance itself from centuries of Christian-Jewish tension and prejudice.

The document released on Thursday is not a doctrinal text, but a "stimulus for the future", the Vatican says.

It builds on the "Nostra aetate" (In Our Time) document which, 50 years ago, redefined Vatican ties with Judaism.

Nostra aetate rejected the concept of collective Jewish guilt for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
'Our elder brothers'

The new document is called "The Gifts and Calling of God are Irrevocable" and was written by the Vatican's Commission for Religious Relations with Jews.

It says "the Catholic Church neither conducts nor supports any specific institutional mission work directed towards Jews".

Judaism, it points out, "is not to be considered simply as another religion; the Jews are instead our elder brothers".


Our out-of-India brothers now need to establish that the Hindus are the elder brothers of the Jews :)

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Manny » 19 Dec 2015 09:45

The History of Christmas

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ ... lStory.htm

Very Educational!

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Philip » 19 Dec 2015 10:46

"Christianity" .Who are these "Christians"?

1.Orthodox Christians- Eastern Orthodox Church.The oldest Christian faith ,which claims to be the most authentic of all,following the faith established by Christ and spread by his disciples.Greek, Russian,Syrian,etc. Closest practices with ancient faith. Have diff. dates for Christmas,Easter,etc. The disciple St.Thomas brought Christianity to India 2000 yrs ago,thus the Syrian Christian churches in Kerala follow the most ancient traditions and teachings of the faith.

2..Roman Catholics-Thanks to Emperor Constantine,who made Christianity a state religion,RCism got v.rich and absorbed some pagan festivals into the faith. RCs also worship Mary the mother of Christ as being divine and pray to her and innumerable saints of the church for intercession,not part of the original faith or Christ's teachings.The Vatican today is a "city state".The Pope is head of state and head of church. The history of the Popes has to be read to be believed...especially by every Catholic! Catholics were once forbidden to read the Bible.
The Council of Toulouse, which met in November of 1229.....Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.


There are umpteen orders within the RC faith,separate for men and women.The most famous are the Jesuits (Society of Jesus,soldier-scholars,famous for the ed institutions like the Loyola colleges :) ,),Benedictine, Sovereign Military Order of Malta‎ ,Dominicans(infamous for the Inquisition),Salesian,missionary orders,hermetic orders,mendicant orders,monastic orders,chivalric orders,etc.,etc. In recent years,the comoparatively new order,Opus Dei,founded by a Spanish priest Escriva de Balaguer has become immensely powerful,favoured by the late Pope John-Paul the Second.The beauty of Opus Dei is that even a non-Christian can become a member!

3.Protestants- A motley bunch,chief amongst them the "Lutherans",named after martin Luther,who fed up with the corruption of the Popes and church of Rome,raised the banner of revolt in Germany.This spread over much of Europe and the UK. and saw the emergence of the Anglican (English) church. Other Protestant churches within the "flock". Methodists,Presbyterians (Scottish),Baptists,etc. Old style Victorian missionaries came from the European Protestant movement.British,Dutch,German,Danish,etc. The Portugese were RCs.

4.The Anglican Church/Communion- The intl. group of Protestant churches which are traditionally led by the Archbishop of Cantebury,the head of the Anglican Church in the UK.The CSI,CNI,African churches,ASian churches,etc. all come under this group.However,this group is sharply divided over women bishops,gay priests,gay marriage,etc.with the African churches the most conservative.US churches that have allowed gay bishops have been condemned by the majority of the Anglican group and may lead to a split between US churches and the rest.

5.Evangelical groups-US ones are the most well known for their "televangelism",which rakes in millions through donations,etc.
Scratch the surface of the US south and you will find such tribes. "Preachers" and "Pastors" lead them not traditional "Priests",who have studied their faith in monasteries, Biblical colleges,etc. The US Evangelical movements are the ones who have gained the most notoriety for their pro-active conversion agenda,CIA infiltration and establishment, where money is offered for conversions.Very active in India. Some well known non-mainstream sects.

Pentecostals,(the most well known,together, Pentecostal and Charismatic Christianity numbers over 500 million adherents,no salvation unless you speak in tongues),7th-Day Adventists (Saturday,not Sunday the holy day,some Jewish customs,12th largest religious group in the world,18M),Jehovah's Witnesses ( 15M,they refuse military service and blood transfusions. They consider use of the name Jehovah vital for proper worship. They reject Trinitarianism, inherent immortality of the soul, and hellfire, which they consider to be unscriptural doctrines. They do not observe Christmas, Easter, birthdays, or other holidays and customs they consider to have pagan origins incompatible with Christianity.)

6. The Mormons-or rather to give them their correct title,"Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"
15M.They have their own "Book of Mormon",their equiv. to the Bible and are considered more of a "cult" than a religion. They believe that America is the "Promised Land" and have other "disciples" who spread the faith in the US. Once practised polygamy.V.wealthy,control Utah, Salt Lake City their HQ..V.active in India,run out of the Philippines. A key belief of the Mormons is the "God answers your prayers".

So you can see that "Christianity" today is a quite a bewildering religion,faith,whatever,with little common ground between the various groups. And they speak of the Sunni-Shiite divide!

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Dec 2015 21:25

Thanks for the synopsis, Philip.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby chetak » 19 Dec 2015 21:36

look at how the EJs protect themselves but lecture us on "religious" freedom :lol:

when it's done to them it's an attempt to "proselytize Islam in a public school", accusing the school of "religious indoctrination" but when the EJs do it to us it's "bringing christ" to the heathens

what a bunch of hypocrites!! shutting down all the schools in the district.

this from the washington post, no less


Furor over Arabic assignment leads Virginia school district to close Friday


A Virginia school system has decided to close schools Friday after a high school geography assignment on world religions led to allegations of Islamic indoctrination and a slew of angry emails and phone calls.

Augusta County School District officials said that there had been no specific threat of harm to students. But in a statement posted on the school district’s website, officials said they were concerned about the “tone and content of these communications.”

“We regret having to take this action, but we are doing so based on the recommendations of law enforcement and the Augusta County School Board out of an abundance of caution,” the statement says.

[University moves to fire professor who says Sandy Hook massacre is a hoax — and allegedly harassed parents of victims]

Superintendent Eric Bond did not respond to questions about why he canceled school given the lack of a specific threat, or about whether he considered the original assignment improper. Members of the school board also did not respond to requests for comment.

The school district serves about 10,000 students in Virginia’s Shenandoah Valley west of Charlottesville, Va., about 150 miles from Washington, D.C.

A geography teacher at the district’s Riverheads High near Staunton, Va., gave an assignment asking students to try their hand at calligraphy by copying a statement in Arabic, according to the Staunton News Leader.

It was the Muslim statement of faith, according to the newspaper: “There is no god but Allah. Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.”

The assignment was meant to give students a sense for the art of calligraphy, according to the newspaper, and the teacher did not have the students translate the statement into English, require students to recite the statement, or say they believed in it.

But some parents were outraged at what they saw as an attempt to proselytize Islam in a public school. One parent’s post on Facebook accusing the school of religious indoctrination caught the attention of national media, triggering a community meeting and an avalanche of messages to the school system.

“These children were deceived when they were told it was calligraphy,” the parent, Kimberly Herndon, told NBC29 television. “This is not calligraphy, this is a language.”

Students were also invited to try on a hijab, or head scarf.

In the statement posted on the school district website, officials said that “no lesson was designed to promote a religious viewpoint or change any student’s religious belief.”

Students will continue learning about world religions as required by state academic standards, they said. But in the future, students will practice calligraphy using a different sample that has nothing to do with Islam.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Dec 2015 22:33

The heathen is amused.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby chetak » 21 Dec 2015 19:38

This is actually happening all over with EJs superstitiously organizing such targeted events. Flyers/ posters and notices are hand delivered to individual homes in various housing colonies/complexes. we have so far received eleven such flyers to date and counting.


Kids In Mumbai Housing Societies: Latest Targets of Missionaries

Image



With Christianity all but wiped out in the West, conversions have reached their peak in India. No avenue is spared by missionaries to convert Hindus, which makes it urgent for Hindus to always be alert and on guard.




6 December, my son came back home around 8 pm after playing with friends. He had chips, juice, chocolate and two DVD’s in his hand. (Picture-1)

Image

pic 1I was surprised. My son told me that our Hindu neighbour, a Vishnu worshipper (let’s call him Mr. H)’s son had called the kids playing in the compound of our housing society to celebrate Santa’s coming. There he was given the stuff shown in picture-1 as Santa’s gift.

I was curious. I decided to go through the DVDs myself. Of the two DVDs, one was about the conversion of a Hindu to Christianity. And the other DVD was about the life and message Jesus Christ.

Image

khojAccompanied by Indian Classical Music, the movie has used Indian (Hindu) symbols, music, stories, and anecdotes wherever required. The following caption appears at the beginning of the story.

Image

captionThe first DVD had a movie based on the book “My Encounter with Truth” written by a certain Pandit Dharam Prakash Sharma with Dr. Babu K Varghese. The DVD begins by mentioning that it is a true story.

This is an attempt to impress upon the viewers the following ideas:

house

The movie begins by depicting a Hindu devotee who prays – “O God. Please prepare your son from this land of Pushkar so that he can be a Saakshi of Truth.
The movie then depicts story of the protagonist, Pandit Dharam Prakash of Pushkar, who is in search of inner peace and truth. Throughout the movie, this search or “Khoj” has been highlighted.
The protagonist has been depicted as a learned person, who has achieved material gains and is quite successful.
Repeated references are made to highlight that the protagonist was a Brahmin and yet he was finally convinced about the “real” path. The message is that a Brahmin was influenced by Christianity only because his inner search for truth was not satisfied.
Young Dharam Prakash, is also shown to be intrigued by questions of Life and Death and other existential questions. He asks his father to guide him, who gives him the Bhagavad Gita and asks him to search for the truth himself.
Later in one of the scenes, the protagonist says that he has studied Bhagavad Gita, Quran, Ramcharita Manas but his questions remain unanswered.
The movie subtly conveys that the protagonist is convinced that the path of Jesus is the right path, without any coercion or pressure.
The movie also depicts that the basic introduction about Christianity and Jesus Christ was given to young Dharam by his father and not by any outsider. So once again there was no over conversion attempt.
One of the important points of the movie (and perhaps the greatest reason why Dharam Prakash converted) is that the protagonist married a Christian woman. This Christian wife of Dharam Prakash has been shown to be very adaptive and tolerant, whereas there are two incidents where Dharam Prakash hits her because she was reading Bible or was discussing some issues related to Christianity.
The protagonist is repeatedly shown to be in touch with the “true voice,” a voice that he tries to ignore. There is a dialogue: “Then I heard a voice that said why you are running away from me?”.
The DVD finally ends by showing that even the old parents of Pandit Dharam Prakash Sharma finally accept Christ as their saviour.
The Hindu pilgrimage centre of Pushkar has been shown as a place of filth and dirt, Sadhus smoking joints etc.


sadhuThe second DVD is a 2-hour long movie on Christ. It is in various languages with subtitles in different languages are provided. The movie depicts all major accounts of Christ’s life.

Briefly recounting his early life and profession, the movie also depicts Jesus’s baptism, his disciples and followers, main teachings, miracles and how he was betrayed, arrested and finally crucified. The movie ends with his Resurrection and final message.

The movie is quite a professional effort and has obtained proper censor board certification. Other details of the movie and DVD are as follows:

· Title: Khoj, The Search
· DVD is available in 8 languages: English, Hindi, Marathi, Gujarati, Telugu, Nepali, Bengali, Oriya.

· Screen Play & Direction: Leo Thaddeus

· Cinematography: Sushee Surendran

· Story: Dr. Babu K. Varghese

· Studio: Lal Media – Cochin, Media Park Digital – Cochin

· Folklore Studio – Jaipur

· Website: www.khojmovie.in

· Email: info@khojmovie.in

· Address: PB#8422, St. Thomas Town, PO, Bangalore-560084

· Phone: 080-25462482, 25476787





I was quite alarmed. I asked my son to narrate the whole incident.

He said H’s son who is 9 years old and is in class V, called all his friends to collect Santa’s gift. Around 10 kids, roughly in the age group of 8-12, (my son is 11, and is in class VII) landed up at H’s place. Children were first asked whether they knew about Christmas. Then in a subtle manner, they were told about the “saviour”. There they were made to sing carols and then they were given the Santa’s gift.

The following facts emerge from this incident which should send alarm bells ringing:

Innocent children who are at an impressionable age were targeted.
The timing was such that the children would not be called from their homes but would be there in a playground; this would facilitate their assembly without informing their parents.
The movie is based on the book “My Encounter With Truth”, a name which sounds similar to Mahatma Gandhi’s book “My Experiments With Truth” which every kid is aware of and can easily confuse that the said film is based on Mahatma Gandhi’s book.
The DVD cover mentions Dharam Prakash as a freedom fighter. Though the movie depicts his father as a freedom fighter, there is no mention of any major activity or participation of Dharam Prakash in the freedom movement. In fact, as per the movie itself, the protagonist was quite young during that period.
The next day when I confronted my neighbour, he expressed helplessness and said he was caught unawares. He said he has a relative married to a Christian. They came to his house along with a group of 5-6 Christian friends, and said they wanted to celebrate Santa’s coming. And the rest is history.

My housing society houses affluent families in Navi Mumbai. When such activities can be carried out here, one can only imagine the activities carried out elsewhere across the country.

We read about the deadly ISIS, which is certainly a grave danger for humanity but at least it is right there in front of us. However, what just happened in my housing society is what we have to guard against—it is subtle treachery.

With Christianity all but wiped out in the West, conversions have reached their peak in India. No avenue is spared by missionaries to convert Hindus, which makes it urgent for Hindus to always be alert and on guard.

This was sent by Dharma Prahari from Mumbai who tweets at https://twitter.com/Sab_mile_Hue.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby member_19686 » 21 Dec 2015 20:01

sighbaboo ‏@sighbaboo Sep 5
+This is how these children are reared. They probably have no idea about South Carolina. But they get to meet visitors from there. +

+They get to hold placards campaigning for a law to be passed in *that* State. Not Maharashtra, but South Carolina. How wonderful, no? +

Image

https://twitter.com/sighbaboo/status/640235903424729088

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby member_19686 » 22 Dec 2015 19:04

Kids In Mumbai Housing Societies: Latest Targets of Missionaries

IndiaFacts Staff @indiafactsorg
Demography (Persecution & Proselytisation) | 21-12-2015

On 6 December, my son came back home around 8 pm after playing with friends. He had chips, juice, chocolate and two DVD’s in his hand.

Image

I was surprised. My son told me that our Hindu neighbour, a Vishnu worshipper (let’s call him Mr. H)’s son had called the kids playing in the compound of our housing society to celebrate Santa’s coming. There he was given the stuff shown in picture-1 as Santa’s gift.

I was curious. I decided to go through the DVDs myself. Of the two DVDs, one was about the conversion of a Hindu to Christianity. And the other DVD was about the life and message Jesus Christ.

Image

Accompanied by Indian Classical Music, the movie has used Indian (Hindu) symbols, music, stories, and anecdotes wherever required. The following caption appears at the beginning of the story.

Image

The first DVD had a movie based on the book “My Encounter with Truth” written by a certain Pandit Dharam Prakash Sharma with Dr. Babu K Varghese. The DVD begins by mentioning that it is a true story.

This is an attempt to impress upon the viewers the following ideas:

Image

1. The movie begins by depicting a Hindu devotee who prays – “O God. Please prepare your son from this land of Pushkar so that he can be a Saakshi of Truth.

2. The movie then depicts story of the protagonist, Pandit Dharam Prakash of Pushkar, who is in search of inner peace and truth. Throughout the movie, this search or “Khoj” has been highlighted.

3. The protagonist has been depicted as a learned person, who has achieved material gains and is quite successful.

4. Repeated references are made to highlight that the protagonist was a Brahmin and yet he was finally convinced about the “real” path. The message is that a Brahmin was influenced by Christianity only because his inner search for truth was not satisfied.

5. Young Dharam Prakash, is also shown to be intrigued by questions of Life and Death and other existential questions. He asks his father to guide him, who gives him the Bhagavad Gita and asks him to search for the truth himself.

6. Later in one of the scenes, the protagonist says that he has studied Bhagavad Gita, Quran, Ramcharita Manas but his questions remain unanswered.

7. The movie subtly conveys that the protagonist is convinced that the path of Jesus is the right path, without any coercion or pressure.

8. The movie also depicts that the basic introduction about Christianity and Jesus Christ was given to young Dharam by his father and not by any outsider. So once again there was no over conversion attempt.

9. One of the important points of the movie (and perhaps the greatest reason why Dharam Prakash converted) is that the protagonist married a Christian woman. This Christian wife of Dharam Prakash has been shown to be very adaptive and tolerant, whereas there are two incidents where Dharam Prakash hits her because she was reading Bible or was discussing some issues related to Christianity.

10. The protagonist is repeatedly shown to be in touch with the “true voice,” a voice that he tries to ignore. There is a dialogue: “Then I heard a voice that said why you are running away from me?”.

11. The DVD finally ends by showing that even the old parents of Pandit Dharam Prakash Sharma finally accept Christ as their saviour.

12. The Hindu pilgrimage centre of Pushkar has been shown as a place of filth and dirt, Sadhus smoking joints etc.

The second DVD is a 2-hour long movie on Christ. It is in various languages with subtitles in different languages are provided. The movie depicts all major accounts of Christ’s life.

Briefly recounting his early life and profession, the movie also depicts Jesus’s baptism, his disciples and followers, main teachings, miracles and how he was betrayed, arrested and finally crucified. The movie ends with his Resurrection and final message.

The movie is quite a professional effort and has obtained proper censor board certification. Other details of the movie and DVD are as follows:

· Title: Khoj, The Search
· DVD is available in 8 languages: English, Hindi, Marathi, Gujarati, Telugu, Nepali, Bengali, Oriya.

· Screen Play & Direction: Leo Thaddeus

· Cinematography: Sushee Surendran

· Story: Dr. Babu K. Varghese

· Studio: Lal Media – Cochin, Media Park Digital – Cochin

· Folklore Studio – Jaipur

· Website: www.khojmovie.in

· Email: info@khojmovie.in

· Address: PB#8422, St. Thomas Town, PO, Bangalore-560084

· Phone: 080-25462482, 25476787

I was quite alarmed. I asked my son to narrate the whole incident.

He said H’s son who is 9 years old and is in class V, called all his friends to collect Santa’s gift. Around 10 kids, roughly in the age group of 8-12, (my son is 11, and is in class VII) landed up at H’s place. Children were first asked whether they knew about Christmas. Then in a subtle manner, they were told about the “saviour”. There they were made to sing carols and then they were given the Santa’s gift.

The following facts emerge from this incident which should send alarm bells ringing:

1. Innocent children who are at an impressionable age were targeted.

2. The timing was such that the children would not be called from their homes but would be there in a playground; this would facilitate their assembly without informing their parents.

3. The movie is based on the book “My Encounter With Truth”, a name which sounds similar to Mahatma Gandhi’s book “My Experiments With Truth” which every kid is aware of and can easily confuse that the said film is based on Mahatma Gandhi’s book.

4. The DVD cover mentions Dharam Prakash as a freedom fighter. Though the movie depicts his father as a freedom fighter, there is no mention of any major activity or participation of Dharam Prakash in the freedom movement. In fact, as per the movie itself, the protagonist was quite young during that period.

The next day when I confronted my neighbour, he expressed helplessness and said he was caught unawares. He said he has a relative married to a Christian. They came to his house along with a group of 5-6 Christian friends, and said they wanted to celebrate Santa’s coming. And the rest is history.

My housing society houses affluent families in Navi Mumbai. When such activities can be carried out here, one can only imagine the activities carried out elsewhere across the country.

We read about the deadly ISIS, which is certainly a grave danger for humanity but at least it is right there in front of us. However, what just happened in my housing society is what we have to guard against—it is subtle treachery.

With Christianity all but wiped out in the West, conversions have reached their peak in India. No avenue is spared by missionaries to convert Hindus, which makes it urgent for Hindus to always be alert and on guard.

This was sent by Dharma Prahari from Mumbai who tweets at https://twitter.com/Sab_mile_Hue.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby member_19686 » 01 Jan 2016 04:42

23 kids rescued from unregistered home say 'Papa' gave them Christian names

Ishita Bhatia | TNN | Dec 30, 2015, 09.31 PM IST

MEERUT: In a case of suspected child trafficking and conversion, 23 children in the 5-14 age group were rescued from a children's home called Emmanuel Seva Group in Meerut's Shastri Nagar on Wednesday afternoon. The children claimed to have two names - one which their parents gave them and the other a Christian name the home's director gave them in Dehradun "after reading a Bible".
Asked about the incident, DS Sirohi, station officer, said, "As of now, statements of the children are being taken by members of the Child Welfare Committee. Once that's done, the district probation officer will file an FIR in the matter."
The home, which has been running for the last one-and-half years, also did not have any registration as prescribed in Supreme Court guidelines under the Juvenile Justice Act, according to officials. The raid was conducted after activists working with NGO Child Line received a tip-off from their Noida counterparts.
"Nootan Prajapati, a Delhi resident, had given her two daughters to a home in Delhi. She was promised she could have them back once she had a home to live in, but was later told the girls had been transferred to a shelter in Noida and that she had to pay Rs 1.5 lakh to get each daughter back," said Anita Rana, director, Child Line. "Prajapati complained to Child Line and a raid was done at Emmanuel Seva Home."
The Seva Group has its headquarters in Delhi's Shalimar Bagh and has two other Noida addresses. The director is Devraj Gowda, whose wife Anita was present at the children's home when the raid took place. While the duo denied charges of converting the children to Christianity, the children themselves had another story to narrate.
"I am from Odisha. My parents left me at a didi's home two years ago because they did not have money to take care of me. Along with other children I boarded a train with that didi (a woman so far unidentified) but police caught us and took us to the station," said six-year-old Kritika (name changed). "We were released from police custody by 'De Papa' (as Devraj Gowda is called by the children) who took us to Dehradun. There we were given names by him after reading from a Bible. Later, we were brought to Meerut," the girl added. All the children now have 'Masih' as their surname.
Anita Gowda, meanwhile, refuted the charges of conversion. "I am myself a Hindu, why would we convert these kids to Christianity? I agree it is our fault that there was no registration yet of the home, but there was no conversion. We just follow Mother Teresa."
All the kids here are sent to National Public School in Shastri Nagar K-block and allegedly asked to pray to Jesus Christ every morning. Some of the children also alleged they were beaten when they asked to be sent home.
"Running a children's home without registration is indeed illegal but if these people have all the documents in place and get a registration, they will be allowed to run. But if the conversion angle is proved, necessary investigation will be done against them. As of now, the children have been sent to the Child Welfare Committee to record their statements. Only after that will a case be registered," said district probation officer Pushpendra Kumar.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 384940.cms

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby member_19686 » 09 Jan 2016 01:06

Shelter forcibly converted children to Christianity, raided by police
Abhishek Anand, Hindustan Times, Greater Noida | Updated: Jan 08, 2016 13:06 IST

Image
Authorities allegedly uncovered a forcible conversion centre in Greater Noida and Meerut. The children rescued from the shelter home told counsellors that many of them were 'bought' from their parents.

Forcibly converted to Christianity, hung by the wrists from a ceiling fan, starved for days and beaten mercilessly for failing to recite Bible passages — this is what a nine-year-old boy said he had to endure at an illegal shelter.
He was among 30 children, all from poor families, rescued on December 29 after police raided two homes run by the Emmanuel Seva Group in Greater Noida and Meerut. The child, who along with his younger sister and brother had been confined to the home for three years, said their stay was like a “jail term” during which his name was also changed.
“I was allowed to meet my parents once a month for only 15 minutes. The only thing I was taught was the Bible. They forced me to memorise its passages,” the boy told HT on Thursday and added that the children were forced to consume buffalo meat and “paraded” before potential donors.
“They gave us good clothes whenever visitors came. They made us stand in line and recite Bible passages. Faltering meant a beating with sticks and belts later,” he said. “Once the guests left, the shelter in-charge snatched away our clothes, sweets and gifts and we were back in rags again.”

His 11-year-old sister said the children were forced to sleep on a dirty floor that was littered with rodent droppings.
“They never allowed us to step outside. We were not given food for three days at a stretch if we forgot a Bible passage.”
“A case was registered at the Bisrakh police station following the raid. The children complained they were tortured and beaten up for not following the orders of the caretakers. We are investigating whether the organisation had permission to run a shelter home. Three persons, including the caretaker of the shelter home, have been detained and are being questioned. We are investigating the claims of the rescued children,” said Ashwani Kumar, in charge, Bisrakh police station.
Their mother, whose complaint with a children’s helpline led to the raids, said she was approached by one Josua Devraj at a Delhi hospital around three years ago. “He said he will raise my children and make them IAS officers. He forced us to circulate pamphlets and copies of the Bible in public places but never paid us,” she said.
Their ordeal has not ended even after being rescued. The woman said the shelter’s employees came to her house on Tuesday night and threatened to take her three children back. “They pelted stones at our house and beat us up with batons. They fled when the neighbours gathered,” she said.

“The victim’s mother had approached us on December 28. We contacted the police and conducted a raid at Naya Haibatpur village in Bisrakh area. It was found that a shelter home with the name of Emanuel Sewa Group was operating illegally. Seven children were kept there in squalid and untidy condition. The children were also found to be malnourished. A subsequent raid was conducted at the shelter home of the same organisation in Meerut from where 23 children were rescued,” said Satyaprakash, programme manager, FXB Suraksha NGO.
Satyaprakash further said, “The complainant said she was not allowed to meet her children for months and told us that they might have been shifted to some other place. After we conducted a raid, it was found that her children were lodged at an illegal shelter home of the same trust in Dehradun. Following the raid, the children were brought back to Greater Noida.”
He said the children revealed that they were being served cockroach-infested food and were forced to live in a substandard condition.
“Most of them are malnourished and sick. They need proper medication and care. We are in talks with their family members. They will be sent back to their homes soon,” Satyaprakash said.
When contacted, accused Joshua Devraj accepted that a raid was conducted at his shelter homes but refused to comment on the issue.
“Yes, raids were conducted but I cant tell you much about it. I will comment on this issue later,” he said.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/noida/gre ... 3I3UM.html


On a separate note:

sighbaboo
‏@sighbaboo
Note date in EJ's tweet (Dec1, 2015).TellAsia sends $ to Alliance, #FCRA-NGO in LKO;Thread-> https://twitter.com/sighbaboo/status/552385808536449024
Image

sighbaboo ‏@sighbaboo 16h16 hours ago
+Now read this->https://www.facebook.com/TellASIA/posts/10156334677270371 PLEASE, PLEASE. Read it. Thanks.

sighbaboo ‏@sighbaboo 16h16 hours ago
+Alok Srivastava is associated with this TellAsia Ministry which runs the Blue Haven Orphanage in Lucknow. RoL. Chk out the FB post above

https://twitter.com/sighbaboo/status/679935949833244672


In case they TellAsia Ministry deletes the Facebook update, screenshots:

member_19686
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby member_19686 » 09 Jan 2016 17:10

There was a discussion here on the true Xtian numbers in India here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6845&start=2200#p1962963

Well check out this document from BILD (which has a good presence in desh) from 2011. It's run by a Selvaraj in Hyderabad who runs it as Vishwa Vani

What can you do to evangelize 1.1 billion non-Christians and train 1 million Christian leaders in India

https://www.bild.org/download/brochures ... orrent.pdf


According to the document:

Image

Also, unlike many Hindus who blame only SoGa & YSR for conversions, sighbaboo thinks that a lot of things were established by firangis in Desh much much earlier. Early 90's even. Strategic companies, Societies etc.

member_19686
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby member_19686 » 25 Jan 2016 19:16

http://csichristchurch.net/madhya-kerala-diocese-thritheeya-smaaraka-jubilee-convention-2016/ Madhya Kerala Diocese Thritheeya Smaaraka Jubilee Convention. Chk out Preachers listed!!! Really, please do!

https://twitter.com/sighbaboo/status/691072356568035328


MP Catholic church wants to adopt govt schools for better education: Bhopal archbishop

Rageshri Ganguly | TNN | Jan 23, 2016, 09.22 PM IST

BHOPAL: MP Catholic Church has sent a proposal to the state government for adopting government schools in tribal areas on a pilot basis for improvement in quality of education. However, the government is yet to respond to its request.
Addressing a press conference here to mark the concluding ceremony of 'Year of consecrated life', Archbishop of Bhopal diocese Leo Cornelio said, "I have verbally discussed the proposal with CM Shivraj Singh Chouhan for improving educational standards. He has also lauded it and said this was a good cause. After my meeting, one of our principals from BSSS College wrote to the government for adoption of government schools. But, we have not received any response thereafter."
According to the Archbishop, the education system in government schools needs to be improved urgently. "MP is one of the most backward states when it comes to education. Students get free mid-day meal, books and other facilities, except quality education in government schools. Also, teachers don't teach sincerely," he claimed. "I have visited several villages and I am of strong view that education system needs to be improved in government schools in Madhya Pradesh," he added.
The church is observing 'Year of consecrated life' as Pope Francis dedicated the period November 30, 2014 to February 2, 2016 for it. MP regional level concluding ceremony will be held at BSSS College ground on Sunday. For this event, nearly 2,000 Catholics and nine Bishops of MP region are expected to participate.
"The objectives of this year are to look at the past with gratitude; live the present with passion and embrace the future with hope. We have been asked to work for spiritual uplift and to set new trends in education, health care, social work, and rehabilitation, besides working for the uplift and welfare of poor and oppressed classes with more strength and devotion," the Archbishop added.
'No conversions by force'
Archbishop Leo Cornelio also said that religious conversions are not being done forcibly in the state anywhere by Christians. "Right to freedom is espoused in the constitution of our country. Only radicals use force and coercion for conversion. We don't advocate this approach," he said. Cornelio added that fringe groups backed by government need to be checked. He also said that the Madhya Pradesh Dharma Swatantra Adhiniyam (Madhya Pradesh Freedom of Religion Act) was being "misused". The statement comes two days after a report of Catholic Secular Forum (CSF) said that Madhya Pradesh was the worst state when it comes to attacks on Christians.
"CM Chouhan wants harmony and peace, but some fringe groups were responsible for the attacks," he said. It was the duty of the law enforcing agencies to prevent the violence against Christians, he said, adding that these agencies should not buckle under pressure while probing such incidents.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 699287.cms?

member_29013
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby member_29013 » 01 Mar 2016 13:01

This hasn't been posted in BR anywhere yet so

Cardinal Pell testimony brings sex abuse to Vatican's doorstep

The Vatican used to be impermeable to horrific stories of child sexual abuse by priests – and complicit in attempts to whitewash the perpetrators’ reputations. It was a place where men such as Cardinal Bernard Law, who became a pariah within the US Catholic church after it became clear that decades of sexual abuse had been covered up within his archdiocese, could go for a comfortable retirement and to escape glaring media attention or, even worse, possible investigation.
....
In one of the most revealing moments of Pell’s testimony, he acknowledged that it was unusual at the time that Ridsdale, a paedophile priest whom Pell knew and lived with for about 10 months and was later revealed to be a serial rapist of children, took big groups of boys with him away on camping trips.

“To the extent I thought about it, I thought with a big group of 45 boys that would prevent wrongdoing, or it was a useful precaution,” Pell said.

When Gail Furness SC, the barrister assisting the royal commission, pressed him on that point, and asked whether “wrongdoing” was on his mind, he said: “Not particularly. I just thought it would have been imprudent to do otherwise.”

When asked again, whether it was “imprudent” because a boy who was alone on a camping trip with a priest could be abused, Pell responded: “That is certainly correct, and it was also capable of provoking gossip that might or might not be justified.”

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Murugan » 01 Mar 2016 13:06

Watch the movie "Spotlight"

n 2001, editor Marty Baron of The Boston Globe assigns a team of journalists to investigate allegations against John Geoghan, an unfrocked priest accused of molesting more than 80 boys. Led by editor Walter "Robby" Robinson (Michael Keaton), reporters Michael Rezendes (Mark Ruffalo), Matt Carroll and Sacha Pfeiffer interview victims and try to unseal sensitive documents. The reporters make it their mission to provide proof of a cover-up of sexual abuse within the Roman Catholic Church.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby arun » 04 Mar 2016 10:43

X Posted from the India-US Relations thread.

arun wrote:Going by the USCRIF comment one would assume that the US did not have visa ban list and let in all.

Meanwhile I loudly applaud the BJP led NDA Government of our Prime Minister denying entry of the Abrahamic dominated, particularly of the Christist variety, USCRIF. Even as I loudly applaud our Governments action I hope that our fellow Indian’s of the Adarsh Liberal variety do not permit their distaste for all things Modi to claim after a variety of convoluted contortions that it is intolerant and anti-constitutional for GOI not to grant visa to USCRIF members.

Denied visa, US religious freedom body says India should have confidence to allow visit

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby vishvak » 05 Mar 2016 12:45

Actually, MP Tulsi Gubbard had to man up and say that candidates should not feel having to convert to be elected, or something of that sort. That doesn't, however, make Hindus protest in India to get a huge Olympic size contingent to America and 'interview' everyone-shoving mic with 'how do you feel' kind of questions- everyone who has ever converted by religion/sect.

About allegations of child molestation part, here is Archbishop of St. Louis giving sworn testimony.
link
"Not sure", "Didn't know", etc etc all on camera. Its all legit if you can get away with it. Unless, of course, having to strut around in a 3rd world country and selective ignore even genocide of Kashmiri Pandits or terrorism in the north eastern states by Christian militants.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Prem » 06 Mar 2016 02:36


Prem
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Prem » 06 Mar 2016 03:01


Agnimitra
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Agnimitra » 09 Mar 2016 00:43

chetak wrote:

With Christianity all but wiped out in the West, conversions have reached their peak in India.

Christianity is far from "all but wiped out in the West". This is a mistake many Hindutva-vadis make. In fact, the West is at a point where the pendulum is poised to swing back, at least in certain countries. Better way to look at it in classical terms is a tension between the Dionysian and Apollonian tendencies.

IMHO, Indics would later regret re-hashing anti-Christian polemics against Christianity in the West, because not only would that polemic work against itself at home, but they will eventually find themselves on the wrong side of history in the West itself as this century unrolls.

The more philosophically sound and politically strategic approach for Indics would be to position themselves behind the 'Christ' figure, as an important vector in the Judeo-Christo-Islamic dynamic. Example:
Discussing Judaism, Christianity and Islam in contrast with Indic religions, a friend suggested: "Founding roots of Abrahamic [religion] is the ill-digested follow-on from Krishna's battlefield Bhagavat stressing the personal-relationship with humanoid 'God' but minus the understanding of karma and re/incarnation." Regardless of whether the distinction holds in general, here are some preliminary considerations on the difference between Vedic and non-Vedic ideological approaches to civilization:

Aitareya Aranyaka, 3.2.3 says: "एष पन्था एष कर्मैतत् सत्यम् एतं वायौ ।" - "He is the Path(s), the Way/Method, the Truth, (in) the Life (life force)."

This is almost verbatim to Jesus' famous words, "I am the Way, the Truth, the Life...".

Similarly, in the Isha Upanishad, and in various variations in many other Hindu texts we find the phrases like "सो sह्म्" - "I am He/That". And "यो sसावसौ पूरुषः सो sहमस्मि ।" - "The He that is that Person, He is I". Again, apparently from the same loom as Jesus' words "I am that 'I am'".

Jesus is supposed to be the firstborn son of God, born from the very body of God, and non-different from Him. Similarly, in Hinduism, Brahma, the Creator, is born from the body of Garbhodakashayi Vishnu, and is the very first emanation born directly from Him.

If you look for any of Jesus' cryptic words and instructions in the Vedas, Aranyakas, Brahmanas, Upanishads, and Puranas, you will find all of them directly in them. Typically fleshed out copiously and in a far richer context in all cases.

Those words and descriptions and their contexts have been there in the Vedas and its literature before Christianity, before the recorded history of Judaism.

Those words were also understood very differently by the Hindus and other Vedic peoples for tens of thousands of years.

There is no dearth of exclusive devotion to God in a henotheistic or monotheistic way in Hinduism.

But it is still very different from the alleged monotheism of Christianity or Islam.

I trust it will be as fascinating to you to explore this crucial difference, as it has been for me.

Instead, we find that among Hindutva ideologues, 'monotheism' itself has become anathema (invalidating the copious and most refined sections of Indic Vedanta). It is this mentality that likes to feel it is in the company of "intellectual" "post-Christian" Westerners.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 09 Mar 2016 04:37

The historical record of 'universal' monotheisms is ample and clear. Let them explain and justify the barbarisms exhorted by their deities; pagans await explication. No point in awaiting apologies of course.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Agnimitra » 09 Mar 2016 19:41

sanjaykumar wrote:The historical record of 'universal' monotheisms is ample and clear. Let them explain and justify the barbarisms exhorted by their deities; pagans await explication. No point in awaiting apologies of course.

That is good for the usual tu tu main main. They mention untouchability, you mention their genocide and slavery, etc. In that context, they will simply say that those that committed genocide, slavery and racism in the name of Christianity or Islam were misguided and wolves in sheep's clothing, etc. But in a larger perspective, they will justify it as God's will, because of the abominations in the cultures that were subdued or exterminated.

My point is that we have to deal with a power equation - both, the hard power at the disposal of these religious cultures, AND also the soft power they continue to exert - which might have been on the wane for a few generations, but is far from dead and will swing back.

In order to engage with this REALITY, a more innovative and mature approach is needed. This includes the willingness to engage in, both, conflict (and deracination) as well as assimilation.
Last edited by Agnimitra on 09 Mar 2016 20:28, edited 2 times in total.

Agnimitra
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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Agnimitra » 09 Mar 2016 19:44

Useful to observe the way different denominations within Christianity also evolve, realign, etc. Specifically, the dynamics between Western Protestant, Catholic and Eastern Orthodox (Russia, etc).

The Ligonier Meeting...

...is an example of attempted deracination and grafting.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 09 Mar 2016 21:26

i have the utmost admiration for post Christian westerners. They are truly evolved human beings. The reality indeed is that bible thumpers are increasingly outed as anachronistic and absurd.

Indians need to engage with the rational west. Pandering to be he superstitious and dogmatic is an evolutionary cul de sac.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby RoyG » 09 Mar 2016 23:49

Same should apply to post hellenists. Fine w/ the natural sciences but not with the ideology coupled w/ post modern toolkit. To the so called rationalists deconstructing and appreciating reality is the only way to induce fulfillment and happiness in people. Without going all the way and deconstructing the ego they will become emotional and lonely.


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