Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 6831
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby disha » 23 Nov 2018 22:51

Singha wrote:but I really fear these tribes will eventually die out. their numbers are declining and 50-100 is generally not a sustainable number. similar extinctions occurred in small isolated norse settlements in greenland and in polynesia ... one needs large population and trade links to other areas bringing in products and ideas to sustain .... unfortunately they have no real kin on the mainland 50km away.


Wrong comparisons. The tribes survived 60k years in the Andamans., through the ice-age and through the volcanic eruptions nearby and through innumerable earthquakes and cyclones and tsunamis.

In fact a 10 year old from that tribe will know more about botany and zoology and working with the flora, the fauna and the soil then a professor of tropical forests!

Anyway, the tribes may die out. Definitely *not* due to vagaries of nature but due to stupidity of so-called-civilized apes.

Avarachan
BRFite
Posts: 537
Joined: 04 Jul 2006 21:06

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Avarachan » 24 Nov 2018 08:32

I see posts speculating on Mr. Chau's ethnic background. I looked at his public Instagram photos: his father was Chinese, and his mom was Caucasian.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BVfKBYhBN8a

https://www.instagram.com/p/BFLIhqZD1Pb

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 18386
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby chetak » 24 Nov 2018 10:40

As usual, runditv is at the forefront of such BIF brigade mischief.

Their "independent" "reporters" are fake news masters. Bought and paid for presstitutes and catspaw fundos.


NDTV starts the process of whitewashing the crime of zealot Christian missionary John Allen Chau


NDTV starts the process of whitewashing the crime of zealot Christian missionary John Allen Chau

Even if one restriction has been relaxed, several other laws restricting access to North Sentinel Island remain in force

OPINDIA STAFF
NOVEMBER 23, 2018

Image

After the killing of American missionary John Allen Chau by Sentinelese people in the North Sentinel island, it had emerged that he went to the restricted area flouting rules, and he went there to spread Christianity. But now efforts have begun to whitewash the crimes of the missionary.

Controversial media house NDTV has published an article on its website claiming that an order of the government of India may have facilitated John Allen Chau in violating the rules. They are referring to an order of ministry of home affairs issued in June this year which had removed the requirement of Restricted Area Permit (RAP) for visiting 29 islands in Andaman & Nicobar Islands. North Sentinel Island was one of those 29 islands.

As we have already clarified, removal of RAP for the island does not permit anyone to visit the place without prior approval. This is a misinformation being spread by media to somehow prove that the missionary didn’t violate any rule and instead Indian government is responsible for his death. This is absolutely wrong.

The same MHA circular which had relaxed the RAP requirement had also stated that other restrictions for visiting various places in the islands will continue as before. Section 2 (VII) of the circular said that “separate approvals of the competent authority continue to be required for visiting Reserve Forests, Wildlife Sanctuaries and Tribal Reserves as is the case at present”.

Under the Foreigners (Restricted) Areas Order, 1963, the entire union territory of Andaman & Nicobar, and parts of Sikkim are declared as ‘Restricted Areas’. Similarly, several states in the north-eastern region and parts of Jammu and Kashmir, Himachal Pradesh, Rajasthan, Uttarakhand, and remaining parts Sikkim are declared as Protected Areas. Foreign tourists wishing to visit these areas are required to obtain a Restricted Area Permit (RAP)/Protected Area Permit (PAP) from Indian government authorities before doing so.

In a bid to develop the tourism industry in these areas, the government has relaxed the norms in recent times. As part of that, the RAP requirement was relaxed from 29 islands in Andaman & Nicobar.

It is important to note that Restricted Area norms applied to the entire Andaman & Nicobar, and it is not specific to protected tribal areas. For the protection of tribal areas, forest areas, and other sensitive areas, there are other stringent norms in place, which have not relaxed by the government. The North Sentinel Island is protected by Protection of Aboriginal Tribe (Regulation), 1956 and the Indian Forest Act, 1927. Therefore, even if the RAP requirement has been relaxed, going to the island without permission is still a violation of the rules. To claim that RAP relaxation encouraged John to carry on the misadventure is dishonest.

Moreover, John Allen Chau knew he was violating the rule. The version of fishermen who took him to the island makes it abundantly clear. They have been arrested and they have revealed that the went to the island in the night to escape patrolling by coast guard and navy. John’s diary also makes it clear that he knew he was violating rules. He wrote, “God Himself was hiding us from the Coast Guard and many patrols,” after reaching the North Sentinel Island.

The objective of John’s visit, to convert the last remaining isolated tribe in the world to Christianity, is also clear from his diary that he left with the fishermen. He wrote, “Lord, is this island Satan’s last stronghold where none have heard or even had the chance to hear your name?”.


After the relaxation of RAP norms, some organisations had opposed the move. At that time, the Union Territory administration had clarified that other restrictions for tribal areas will continue and nobody is allowed to go to places like North Sentinel island, and a buffer zone of 5 km around it, without prior approval after extensive scrutiny.

The decision to include the North Sentinel in the list of islands relaxed from RAP regime is indeed questionable. Perhaps it was an oversight by at the home ministry or at the administration of Andaman & Nicobar. But even with the relaxation of RAP, the island remains a protected area and media should stop this attempt to hide the illegal activities of the Christian Missionary.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 18386
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby chetak » 24 Nov 2018 11:01

As per martyrdom, it remains for those who sacrifice for liberty, not for those who arrogantly impose their will on innocent native populations.

This man was willing to endanger an entire and isolated population who have highly reduced immunity, due to their very isolation, and have decidedly remained isolated for over thousands of years, some say over 60,000 years, with his rash and selfish act??

He was an EMT, an emergency medical technician, in real life. GOK, what foul germs and diseases he would have been exposed to in the course of his job.

How did this american "tourist" not know that contact with them may and indeed, very possibly could have easily have triggered an extinction level event for them??

Even a casual stroll among the tribes people of the North Sentelinese would have put the entire tribe in danger of being completely wiped out.

What he was up to was genocide, plain and simple.




Christian group invites ridicule with demand of murder charges against Sentinelese


Christian group invites ridicule with demand of murder charges against Sentinelese

Chidanand Rajghatta,
Nov 24, 2018,

HIGHLIGHTS
The organisation International Christian Concern has expressed concern over the "murder" and sought action on the matter

This despite Chau having gone to the forbidden island in the Andaman’s, in violation of the law, to proselytize without registering as a missionary, also in violation of laws


Image
In this handout photo provided by the Indian Coast Guard and Survival International, a man with the Sentinelese tribe aims his bow and arrow at an Indian Coast Guard helicopter as it flies over North Sentinel Island in the Andaman

WASHINGTON: A US fundamentalist Christian group has sought murder charges against "those responsible" for the death of American adventurer and provocateur John Allen Chau + , amid growing doubts about his evangelical credentials and ridicule over his conversion efforts directed at an ancient tribe that predates organised religion.

While details of 27-year old’s misadventures are trickling out by the hour, the organisation International Christian Concern has expressed concern and sought action on the matter. This despite Chau having gone to the forbidden island in the Andaman’s, in violation of the law, to proselytise without registering as a missionary, also in violation of laws.

"Our thoughts and prayers go out to both John’s family and friends. A full investigation must be launched in this this murder and those responsible must be brought to justice," the organisation told a Christian website LAD Bible, which itself did not support his mission.

"The indigenous people of North Sentinel are protected by law and it is illegal to go over to the island -- not that you'd want to, given that they have a reputation for killing anyone who tries," it noted, adding, "It is also important that the Sentinelese are left alone because they could be susceptible to diseases."

But groups such as the International Christian Concern, which has previously complained about the treatment of Christians in India, notably with a report last week on the situation in Jharkhand, suggest the Sentinelese tribesmen who allegedly killed Chau should be charged with murder. The demand has been greeted derisively on social media, with taunts that the group’s representatives should perhaps go to island to personally serve summons.


The Trump administration and US lawmakers have so far refrained from commenting on the matter, with the long Thanksgiving weekend giving everyone a respite from the news cycle. But the young adventurer’s family sought to move past the incident that claimed their son’s life.

"Words cannot express the sadness we have experienced about this report," his family said in a statement posted on his Instagram account. "He loved God, life, helping those in need, and had nothing but love for the Sentinelese people."

"We forgive those reportedly responsible for his death. We also ask for the release of those friends he had in the Andaman Islands. He ventured out on his own free will and his local contacts need not be persecuted for his own actions,'' they added.

Several US commentators have also pointed out the foolhardiness of Chau’s mission in venturing to an isolated island whose inhabitants are said to have an extant existence of over 30,000 years, and who have chosen not to engage with rest of the world, resulting in even the government of India leaving them alone.

Even Indian military personnel and anthropologists seeking to study them have backed down in the face of their desire to remain in isolation.

One American commentator noted that the case has angered conservation groups who said such visits endangered the tribe's safety while remarking, "What better day than Thanksgiving to threaten the lives of indigenous people. This is how genocides start."

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7000
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JE Menon » 24 Nov 2018 16:39

https://www.newsweek.com/uganda-police- ... ee-1079467

Check out this link... The same spirit which is infecting this lunatic Christian hardliner from the US, also infects people like John Allen Chau who wanted to go and "civilize" the tribes of Andaman & Nicobar.

Scroll down and watch the video in full.

pandyan
BRFite
Posts: 358
Joined: 31 Jul 2006 05:12

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby pandyan » 24 Nov 2018 21:41

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-missionar ... 15515.html


Bitter Truth 1 hr ago
Looks like the tribe takes their second amendment rights to bear arms and illegal entry and stay your ground laws very seriously.

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4840
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Neshant » 25 Nov 2018 02:47

Sentinel island is the real life Skull Island from King Kong.
All that's missing is a giant ape.

Now i bet after this guy's attempt to convert the Sentinelese, there are going to be a bunch of copy-cat adventure seekers attempting just the same.

Indian govt needs to pass laws to protect the Sentinelese now. 25 years automatic imprisonment for anyone pulling such a stunt.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 18386
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby chetak » 25 Nov 2018 14:37

Neshant wrote:Sentinel island is the real life Skull Island from King Kong.
All that's missing is a giant ape.

Now i bet after this guy's attempt to convert the Sentinelese, there are going to be a bunch of copy-cat adventure seekers attempting just the same.

Indian govt needs to pass laws to protect the Sentinelese now. 25 years automatic imprisonment for anyone pulling such a stunt.



The presstitutes of the Indian media are egging the amerikis, any crackpot ameriki, in fact, to file a case in some US court.

The charge is being led, as usual, by the one and only "truthful" media in India, runditv.

ShyamSP
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2107
Joined: 06 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby ShyamSP » 25 Nov 2018 16:29

Neshant wrote:Sentinel island is the real life Skull Island from King Kong.
All that's missing is a giant ape.

Now i bet after this guy's attempt to convert the Sentinelese, there are going to be a bunch of copy-cat adventure seekers attempting just the same.

Indian govt needs to pass laws to protect the Sentinelese now. 25 years automatic imprisonment for anyone pulling such a stunt.


India govt needs to protect all tribes of India and bar non-Indian religions converting them. The tribal Jathis that didn't join to be part of village and towns of Hindu Jathis and were respected and allowed to keep their lifestyle for many 1000s of years. Post Independence they were thrown open to Evenjihadis/Jihadis without option for them to be part of old Indian religions. It is really a criminal act from Indian Government part.

For example Chenchus live Nalamala hill range as exclusive tribe for many centuries and they have legend that says they are descendants of Lakshmi who was born as Chenchu to pacify Narasimha. Many Narasimha temples are there around Nalamala and also Chenchus are devotees of Srisailam Mallikarjuna temple which is also in addition to be Jyothirlinga temple, a Veera Shaiva temple in AP for Lingayats. Coming to current times they are heavily targeted by the Evenjihadis.

Ravi Karumanchiri
BRFite
Posts: 664
Joined: 19 Oct 2009 06:40
Location: www.ravikarumanchiri.com
Contact:

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 26 Nov 2018 02:01

While reading a WaPo article about this whole mess with Chau on Sentinel Island, I came across a comment that included a quote (I've heard before) and would like to share...

"When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land."
- Desmond Tutu


That really sums up a lot.

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7256
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Mort Walker » 26 Nov 2018 06:20

Did this John Chau fellow have a Missionary Visa or Tourist Visa? What he was doing was illegal if he had a tourist visa. That is the first wrong. Secondly, Scheduled Tribes are protected by Articles of the Indian Constitution, so anyone interfering with their "liberty" as defined by the constitution is also illegal. So that is the second wrong. The GoI should make this clear to the public to keep out non-sense litigation.

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4840
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Neshant » 26 Nov 2018 07:18

Whole of Arunachal Pradesh has been converted by missionaries.

The Brus who were driven out of Mizoram who were mostly Hindus are also targeted for conversion.

The missionaries have a pattern of targeting distant tribes and communities for conversion.

Its good old fashioned brainwashing.

They avoid places like North West India when peddling their conversion agenda makes no headway.

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7117
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Prasad » 26 Nov 2018 10:45

uhh they're making massive headway in Punjab.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7000
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JE Menon » 26 Nov 2018 14:19

They are everywhere, and making headway everywhere. This has to be fought village by village, individual by individual.

There's a crapload of money behind it from the US.

Everyone must do his bit. There is no other choice. Although it might not seem like it, if it were not for the measures against NGOs and tightening of tourist visa approvals, etc. by the current government, the situation would already be at crisis proportions.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4482
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Karthik S » 26 Nov 2018 16:23

JE Menon wrote:Everyone must do his bit. There is no other choice. Although it might not seem like it, if it were not for the measures against NGOs and tightening of tourist visa approvals, etc. by the current government, the situation would already be at crisis proportions.


Not sure of that, so many EJs are coming in using tourist visa, look up Girish Bharadwaja and noconverion's timelines. These EJs even advertise before hand about their mission. Also, last year roughly 15,000 crore of money has entered through these 'NGOs'. No strong deterrent law set up as well to punish the guilty.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7000
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JE Menon » 26 Nov 2018 17:16

>>Not sure of that, so many EJs are coming in using tourist visa, look up Girish Bharadwaja and noconverion's timelines.

There has been a squeezing of their ease of entry and operation, so they are whining in foreign countries. Of course, they do come in through tourist visa - but this has been going on for decades, not just from 2014.

And even at the rate they are coming in and operating now, there will be a crisis sooner rather than later.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4482
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Karthik S » 26 Nov 2018 17:29

JE Menon wrote:And even at the rate they are coming in and operating now, there will be a crisis sooner rather than later.


Considering worst case scenario, what percentage of population you think would be converted at the most (20% to 25% my guess)? I know once, certain area attains certain percentage, due to sheer peer pressure and need of acceptance by others in the area makes remaining ones to convert.
Considering all this what's the number we are looking at.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7000
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JE Menon » 26 Nov 2018 20:03

Karthik S,

Depends on what time-frame you are talking about. But I think 20% by 2035 is feasible, though it may sound crazy now. That's upwards of 250M people. The key to understand this situation is the critical mass needed to take it to that level, and unfortunately no one can predict exactly what that is, as it varies from society to society. Now, people can say I'm scaremongering, but one must take into account the European experience - so a bit of history is required.

Remember that after 4 or 6 BC (there is dispute about the exact year) when the man now called Jesus Christ was born, for over three centuries, his followers (mainly Jewish converts - recall that Jesus and every single one of his known apostles and disciples were Jewish), were considered little more than a bunch of rabble rousers and troublemakers by the Roman authorities (from Alexandria to the outer edges of the Eastern Empire). The critical mass was achieved when Emperor Constantine adopted Christianity after a victory in a crucial battle (apparently he saw a vision just prior). His shift in favour of Christianity changed the game and got large number of peoples to convert out of fear, favour or religious choice; this is comparable to the official takeover of India as part of the British empire after 1858 - it lent the imprimatur of state power to Christianity, and made it much more attractive for opportunists of all sorts, as well as those who simply saw this as a way out of poverty or caste-based socio-economic constraints.

But in the Roman Empire, Christianity was not made the official religion until 493 (if I remember correctly) under Theodosius II, who ruled for only two years. Theodosius made Christianity the official religion of the Empire and this put the force of law behind it. This was when the true expansion of Christianity began, and it was through a comprehensive erasure of the previous faiths, histories and traditions of the areas where it spread into (across North Africa and via Greece/Turkey and Egypt) into mainland Europe. (As an aside, you will be suprised at how similar the things they did were to what the Islamic invaders did in India to statues, temples, etc). Potentially thousands of religious leaders of previous faiths were killed, thousands upon thousands of temples were destroyed and disfigured, and the persecution was relentless - lead by Church fathers like Origen, Eusebius, etc. That is why the period from the 6th to the 11th century were called the Dark Ages (although that term has now gone out of favour).

The direct parallel to Theodosius in our case is the coming to power of Sonia Gandhi, or so the Vatican and other aggressively expansive Christian Churches had hoped. There was a comprehensive "opening up" to allow for a wide range of mechaisms which watered the soil for easier conversions - everything from the spread of NGOs to enabling of tourist visa, spreading of propaganda of various types, etc. Unlike Theodosius, she did not need to change the law - our existing legal system (built upon a British frame) made this perfectly feasible. This was a fantastic opportunity, and we saw the burgeoning of the evangelical types in particular during this phase from 2004-14, but not just through those means. All the while, there was a systematic and relentless running down of everything Hindu (or even non-religious traditions of the Indic civilization).

It went too far, too fast, and Modi was elected. This government, through the exercise of bureaucratic levers mainly, has cracked down on this activity. But not enough. There should be an explicit statements that the idea of attempting to convert is anti-democratic and harmful for social stability, for instance. There should be systematic media exposures (much more than they are already creditably doing) of criminal activities by priests especially in terms of financial or sexual misconduct. But ultimately, this should be a civic movement. Christians who run down Hinduism or the civilization should be directly and publicly challenged on such statements; politeness is not an option here. I'm not saying one should be impolite, but raise the subject with calm indignation for example.

In the absence of much more effective action (perhaps underpinned by legislation) by the government and backed by the public, the pace of conversions will not decline. This is exactly what they want - social unrest - because this gets more recruits. So to some extent I can understand the government's reluctance to take public action. But public involvement is essential in explicitly stating their views against conversion and preventing the carrying out of conversion activities by internal forces and external parties. One thing is sure, substantial amount of money used in this is external.

If we don't act individually and collectively to push back and end it, then a repeat of the European Dark Ages in India is inevitable.

rgosain
BRFite
Posts: 355
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 12:31

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby rgosain » 26 Nov 2018 21:00

JEM that was a well thought out analysis and historical tour d force that should be required reading for all on the 10th anniversary of 26/11
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... ump-brexit

In India's case the number reqd would be less to gain a critical mass (15-18%) what with social media and an english language press that practises cargo cult journalism.
Also these numbers would concentrate in certain areas where demographic fault-lines can be exploited eg Hindus vs Islam and Hindus v EJ; it is for this reason Western nations have strict controls on migration to safeguard traditional western values. A tourist visa should mean just that. You are not allowed to teach English, indulge in religious activities or do lectures on a tourist visa, and anyone who does so is usually excluded from the Uk, France or the USA.
On the 10th anniversary of 26/11, Indians continue to have a very poor understanding of strategy and security. The Sentinelese islanders in defending themselves from genocide showed a far greater understanding of these threats than the vast swathes of India's elites who remain ignorant of the plight of the Chagos people.
Had this missionary succeeded, then India's control over these parts of the IOR would be lost.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/am ... 50856.html

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4482
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Karthik S » 26 Nov 2018 21:12

Thanks JEM sir.

Haresh
BRFite
Posts: 739
Joined: 30 Jun 2009 17:27

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Haresh » 26 Nov 2018 21:39

I have just returned from Punjab.

I discussed the xtian conversion with my relations.
What they have told me is that they set up schools, clinics that are free, but they are all aware that the reason is to convert people.
One of my cousins & her husband in England have converted, when they visit India they try to convert others. My relations tell them, "you believe what we want, we will go to the gurdwara/mandir!!"

The other thing the xtian evenjihadis tell converts is that if your family refuses to convert then you can no longer talk to them, thereby breaking the family bond. My advise to my cousins was do not do the work of the evanjihadis for them, to maintain friendly contact with them even if they have converted. You can only bring them back with family love.

The other thing I stressed, and deliberately in front of their children was the child sexual abuse that goes on. I think this is a powerful counter to conversion efforts. It needs to be made more public.

The other thing is, the temples need to be more proactive, what do they do? It needs to be discussed. Find people who converted and then maybe converted back to their Indian faith, ask them why? Discuss these things in the temples & public.
Expose the false promises and lies.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7000
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JE Menon » 26 Nov 2018 21:41

>>>In India's case the number reqd would be less to gain a critical mass (15-18%) what with social media and an english language press that practises cargo cult journalism...

Absolutely right.

@Kartick S ... glad you felt it useful.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4482
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Karthik S » 26 Nov 2018 21:44

Haresh wrote:One of my cousins & her husband in England have converted


Who converts in England? Wayne Rooney is more popular than god there :lol:

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3813
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 26 Nov 2018 21:50

Kudos to The Independent. That’s is why Britain can be a very civilised space.

I’m sure others h e noticed that this black Kenyan is more perceptive than most people in India, those who receive the gift.

Haresh
BRFite
Posts: 739
Joined: 30 Jun 2009 17:27

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Haresh » 26 Nov 2018 21:54

Karthik S wrote:
Haresh wrote:One of my cousins & her husband in England have converted


Who converts in England? Wayne Rooney is more popular than god there :lol:

True, essentially this is a money making scam, the churches are emptying in the west. They need new revenue sources, so have gone east.

The ignorant convert here to this death cult.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23286
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby SSridhar » 27 Nov 2018 08:42

Great post JeM.

Just to add to that extraordinary post. The Popes also forged a document apparently signed by Constantine giving the Popes the reign over several regions of Byzantine. This forgery has now been conclusively proved. They claimed that Constantine had leprosy and as a cure for that, he donated these lands to Papacy.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7000
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JE Menon » 27 Nov 2018 11:05

Thanks SS.

Regarding forgeries & frauds by the various popes to further their strategic interests, there a virtually unlimited number of them - right down to the current era, what with the disappearance of documentation, the fudging of truths, etc... that are involved in the concealment of the true extent of the priestly paedophilic practices. I say practices because, on even a moderately comprehensive reading of the various cases coming out literally worldwide, one cannot but get a strange sense that the whole thing has a ritualistic element to it. Dreadful and frightening even, in some ways.

As for Constantine, many scholars (as you are probably aware too) have wondered whether he actually "converted" - considering that he continued many pre-Christian practices throughout his reign. There have been claims that in fact he "converted" on his deatbed - which is another method that the Vatican bureaucrats have used to co-opt useful historical personages. Nonetheless, he did just by dint of permitting, facilitating and upholding the spread of the religion provide the impetus that was necessary to allow Christianity to become what it has.

Correction: It was Theodosius I in 391 (give or take) who made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire.

By the way, there seems to be a rigorous dispute about this too. The fact of the matter is, there is no agreement on when EXACTLY all this happened. Do a google search, you will find various dates for just about everything. The most curious one is if you search for the "first known use of the term Christian"... Many links will point to the mention of the three uses of the word in the New Testament, but when you ask when that New Testament was first created, you slowly enter into another Alice in Wonderland situation.

If anyone wishes to learn about those times, the premier scholar many people will agree today is Bart Ehrman, who was once a fundamentalist Christian, but is not one anymore. There is a strange version of the "pop" historian in biblical studies, one Reza Aslan, whose book "Zealot" is nevertheless a good read - and possibly as accurate as one can get on many details - especially the political environment of the time. Aslan of course is of Muslim heritage, although he hedges his current view on faith in general carefully (and understandably so).

One outstanding book which everyone MUST read is "Swerve" by Stephen Greenblatt, which shows how Europe came out of the Dark Ages (into the Renaissance - which means something like Renewal - and the Enlightenment Period). One wonders, Renewal of What? Enlightenment from What? - And what facilitated that is hinted at by Joseph T. Noony's (Indian Mallu Christian) tweets on Twitter, if you follow the chronology of the whole thing. Young chap, but admirably determined and knowledgeable.

Then of course, there is the book by Christine Nixey - The Darkening Age, which has already been talked about on the forum and which shows how Christianity began to spread. There are plenty of other books on the subject, but not many are from anything like an objective stand.

In this context, one cannot but inquire about the validity of Christian traditions in India, supposedly starting in 52 AD, i.e. less than 30 years after the crucifixion. Rest assured, no one was called a "Christian" then. In fact, the four primary gospels of the New Testament - Matthew, Mark, Luke and John - had barely been written and disseminated then. Again, if my memory serves, only the gospel of Mark was written around that time. Recall also, that the earliest of the Indian Christians came from the Syrian part of the church, from Antioch. They probably came to India (if the tradition is true) before the term "Christian" became popular. And that is probably why they are still called Nasranis by many - i.e. Nazarenes, that is to say followers of the man from Nazareth. This is what they were called before they were called "Christian", and the Jews still refer to Christians as Natzrim, which is basically Nazarenes in Hebrew.

It is probably time for a few thousand Indians to look into the history of Christianity with the same rigour that the European Christians look at that of the Sanatana Dharma, based on evidence, fact and verifiable truths.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 65297
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Singha » 27 Nov 2018 11:47

some of the crackdown on NGOs fishing in troubled waters here (eg kundankulam power plant), dark funds was launched pre 2014 by MMS , PC and SS Shinde our two former home ministers.
I really wonder whose side MMS and PC are on or were they hedging bets for survival in a post 2014 regime?
overall neither seemed able to rock the boat of SG and her NAC cabal.

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3813
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 28 Nov 2018 11:52

The fundamental rights of Chau’s were violated. He had every right to fight the devil on that island. Any population that resists god, even through the sin of ignorance, needs to be given the gift of love or the gift of death. It has always been so. Christian history is replete with this theme, from the Bronze Age tribal genocides tabulated in the book of Joshua ( protoChristian as in Judaic) to the christianisation of Europe at the point of the sword. The natives of the americas were spared for 15 centuries but their redemption was total.The idolatrous Hindu was chastened by the Goan inquisition on the other side of the world and still takes pride in a convent education. Christians in Europe were tested by the catholic inquisition. 40000 witches were burned alive. Purer christians are selected on the basis of the theses nailed to the Wittenberg castle door, 10 million were culled in the 30 years war. A most powerful and a most loving god. What are the Sentinelese? Primitives. Certainly there was at least one savage on the island. What are 200 when they could sacrifice a significant proportion of the Christian population in Middle Ages Europe?

The book must and will be brought to these people. The blood of the martyr will attract others. India can count on it.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 65297
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Singha » 29 Nov 2018 10:17

so it seems Chau the dead EJ may have been a brainwashed fall guy and 2 EJ handlers primed him for his "mission" before withdrawing from the scene.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... E00XI.html

deeper plans are being exposed slowly.

hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3590
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby hnair » 29 Nov 2018 17:16

An american lawyer seem to have dug up some disturbing history of EJ creeps as well as how the Sentinelese "discovered" metal. Good read. Lots of graphic pics (NSFW) of Sentinelese


https://twitter.com/respectablelaw/stat ... 89632?s=12


@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
There's been a lot of talk about the missionary killed by the natives of North Sentinel Island. They're probably so aggressive because of this weirdo, Maurice Vidal Portman. So here's a big thread about this creep and some facts from my decade-long obsession with the island.



@RespectableLaw
Follow Follow @RespectableLaw
More
The Sentinelese are often described as “uncontacted,” but this not strictly true. They had a very significant contact in 1880 with Commander Portman.



@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
Portman, the black sheep third son of some minor noble, was assigned by the English Royal Navy to administer and pacify the Andaman Islands, a job he pursued from 1880-1900 with the full measure of his own perversity.



@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
Portman was erotically obsessed with the Andamanese, and he indulged his passion for photography by kidnapping members of various tribes and posing them in mock-Greek homoerotic compositions.



@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
During his 20 years in a sexualized heart of darkness, Portman measured and cataloged every inch of his prisoner’s bodies, with an obsessive focus on genitals.


@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
Just imagine being a Neolithic person spending a few weeks in this guy’s rotating menagerie.



@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
Portman spent most of his time in the greater Andaman Islands, but in 1880, he landed on North Sentinel. The natives fled, and his party ventured inland to find a settlement which had been abandoned in haste.




@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
But they located an elderly couple and a few children they were able to abduct. The couple quickly died, likely from ailments to which they had no immunity.



@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
The children spent a few weeks with Portman doing god knows what, after which he returned them to the island. Portman returned on a couple occasions, but the Sentinelese hid from him each time.



@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
The story related by the children was certainly passed down among the 100 or so inhabitants of the island, and even today, Portman’s fatal kidnapping is just beyond a human lifetime.



@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
So when the Indian government attempted contact with anthropologists in the 1960s and 70s, the Sentinelese were understandably hostile to outsiders. The Indian government soon gave up.




@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
In 1981, a cargo ship named The Primrose ran aground on the coral reef surrounding North Sentinel. The crew radioed for assistance and settled in for a long wait. But in the morning they saw 50 men with bows on the beach, building makeshift boats.




@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
The crew called for an emergency airlift and were evacuated, and not a moment too soon. Rough waves had thwarted the Sentinelese in their attempts to board, but the weather was clearing.



@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
The ship and its cargo were left at the island, awaiting discovery by Neolithic eyes. Today you can still see the gutted remains on The Primrose on Google Earth.




@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
Imagine climbing on board that ship. A completely alien vessel filled with alien things. Imagine seeing simple machines for the first time. A hinge. A latch. A wheel. Things that would instantly make sense in a satisfying way. Others would be so incomprehensible to avoid notice.



@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
I have never been able to find out what cargo was on The Primrose in all my years of reading. There was about 100 tons of some sort of consumer product on board, and I’m curious what it was. But even absent the cargo, think about all the things that must have been on that ship.


@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
In the 1990s, when anthropologists returned to the island to make new attempts at contact, they were met with a different attitude. Not friendly, exactly. But they were willing to accept gifts. Many would wade into the water with smiles to accept coconuts.



@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
Here is a video of one of those encounters:




@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
And in those videos, you can see that these pre-iron age people now had metal weapons, like the knife carried by this man. They had scavenged metal from the Primrose and cold-forged it into tools.




@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
After collecting gifts for a few minutes, a few members of the tribe would approach and make menacing gestures, signaling that it was time for the outsiders to leave. They have never lost their desire for isolation, despite the gifts.



@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
And they remained consistent in their intolerance against intruders. In 2006, two fishermen were killed after drifting into the island when their anchor detached while they were sleeping.




@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
The Sentinelese are lucky they were so effective at preventing contact. The neighboring Jawara weren’t so fortunate. The tribe went from 9,000 to a couple hundred from lack of genetic immunity and only forestalled annihilation due to aggressive segregation. Their future is bleak.




@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
Yet on North Sentinel, they’ve maintained a small community for 60,000 years which is by all indications happy. There is no way to integrate them into the modern world without wiping out nearly every member of their tribe.




@RespectableLaw
Nov 22
More
And their aggressiveness is not the mark of savagery. It just that their conception of outsiders is mostly framed by some foot-faced English pervert who murdered some old people and did weird things to their kids. So let’s do them a favor and leave them alone.




@RespectableLaw
Nov 23
POST-SCRIPT: One of the great things about doing a thread like this that people show up with even more information. First, the son of the helicopter pilot from the Primrose recuse mission let me know its cargo was chicken feed:Respectable Lawyer added,
Cheru @ Spla2n
@zelinkpha
It was chicken feed. My father (Captain Robert F.) was one of the ones who airlifted those on the Primrose out and it was only later that he found out it was just a lot of chicken feed. He did have some pretty interesting accounts on the experience though.



@RespectableLaw
Nov 23
More
Someone also pointed me to a book that describes a two-month salvage operation of the Primrose that was almost certainly observed by the Sentinelese.



@RespectableLaw
Nov 23
More
And @dhanyarajendran dug up a memoir written by Portman, and it seems possible that Portman may not have kidnapped Sentinelese after all, as has been reported by every contemporary history of the island.

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dl ... /page/n229


@RespectableLaw
Nov 23
More
It’s somewhat ambiguous. On page 726, Portman describes landing on Sentinel, and in the following paragraphs discusses his time there, saying “One day, while walking through the jungle…”



@RespectableLaw
Nov 23
More
He then describes the abduction as happening “a few days later while crossing the island” (p. 727), and the island he had been discussing was North Sentin
el.



@RespectableLaw
Nov 23
More
But he refers to his captives as Jawara, the name of the neighboring tribe. It’s hard to tell from context if he was using this term for Sentinelese as well. The writing is less than clear. However, my read is that he is talking about North Sentinel. But it's not definitive.



@RespectableLaw
Nov 23
More Respectable Lawyer Retweeted Michael Apter
Finally, it seems that Portman in some small way acknowledged his transgressions against these people. Though I don’t feel bad for calling him a foot-faced English pervert.Respectable Lawyer added,

Michael Apter

@Michael_Apter
For balance this quote from the Goodhart journal article provides a quote from Portman which seems to demonstrate some self awareness and acknowledgement of his own culpability, even if it doesn't excuse the…




@RespectableLaw
Nov 24
More
POST-POST SCRIPT: Since this thread got a lot of attention and will likely be cited in the future, I want to let Portman's full account speak for itself, which I think shows without a doubt that he is guilty of freaking out the Sentinelese. Here's the first part, with my notes:


Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 65297
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Singha » 29 Nov 2018 17:43

here is the hulk of the Primrose ship. a smallish dry bulk cargo carrier 100m long, 25m beam. must be around 15000t full load

https://www.google.com/maps/@11.593515, ... a=!3m1!1e3

prasan
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 43
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 19:36

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby prasan » 29 Nov 2018 19:42

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/convert-o ... 1A-bSlikNo

‘Convert Or Be Killed’: Case Against Ranchi Convent Principal For Threatening To Kill Teacher For Not Converting

Nalini Nayak, a teacher at Carmel School, was allegedly terminated from her job for not converting to Christianity, New Indian Express has reported.

A Ranchi court on Tuesday (27 November) thus ordered the lodging of an FIR against the principal and three other staff of the school on charges of ‘Forcible Conversion’.

The complaint was filed on Monday (26 November) in the court of Judicial Magistrate Kashika M Prasad. In the hearing held on that day, the magistrate directed the Namkom Police Station to file an FIR against the accused for pressuring her to convert.

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 6831
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby disha » 30 Nov 2018 12:16

The idiot evanjihadi did a good thing., brought this cockroach out of wood work:

https://www.news18.com/news/india/india-always-acted-as-coloniser-of-andaman-islands-situation-much-worse-under-current-govt-1955297.html

‘India Always Acted as Coloniser of Andaman Islands, Situation Much Worse Under Current Govt’

The murder of 27-year-old John Allen Chau at the hands of protected and endangered Sentinelese tribe led to a huge controversy early this month, with activists and international non-profits pinning the blame on the Indian government.

Aniruddha Ghosal | News18.comUpdated:November 30, 2018, 11:21 AM IST facebookTwittergoogleskype

‘India Always Acted as Coloniser of Andaman Islands, Situation Much Worse Under Current Govt’ The North Sentinel island is home to the Sentinelese tribe, which remains one of the last protected tribes with no contact with the outside world.

New Delhi: In the eyes of New Delhi, everyone is dispensable when it comes to projecting power," said Madhushree Mukherjee, a senior editor at Scientific American, adding that the government's decision to lift restriction on tourists visiting the isolated islands in the Andamans was "shockingly thoughtless" and although "India has always acted as a coloniser" of the islands, the current situation is "much worse than it was under the previous governments".

A former physicist, Mukherjee received a Guggenheim fellowship to research her book, ‘The Land of Naked People: Encounters with Stone Age Islanders’. The book narrates the devastating experiences of the hunter-gatherers of the Andaman Islands as they come face-to-face with civilisation.

The murder of 27-year-old John Allen Chau at the hands of protected and endangered Sentinelese tribe — the last remaining community that hasn't had contact with other humans for over 50,000 years — led to a huge controversy early this month, with activists and international non-profits pinning the blame on the Indian government.

The move to open up the North Sentinel Island in August, they argued, had paved the way for Chau landing up on the island. But Ministry of Home Affairs maintained that the issue had been one of "implementation" and not policy, claiming that the other protections still exist.
Mukherjee disagreed, saying: "The ministry has belatedly recognised that its order was ludicrous, and is backtracking. What do you implement, if not policy? It is not clear to me to what extent it was implemented on the ground."

Speaking about the risks of trying to retrieve Chau's body, she said there were only two ways to attempt such a thing: "[Either go in with an armed force and risk fatalities" or "initiate a process of so-called friendly contact that will help them lose their fear of outsiders and eventually enable the body to be retrieved.

This, she warned, is inherently dangerous. "This is dangerous because of the risk of germs and other harms that will, with absolute certainty, follow. It would lead to the end of the Sentinelese as a viable culture and people."

Mukherjee’s fears aren't without precedent. Take, for instance the Great Andamanese tribe, who, as per Survival International, were actually made out of 10 district tribes but were clubbed together by the British. Their population plummeted after contact with the colonisers. Measles, influenza and syphilis came hand-in-hand with attempts to 'civilise them'. In 1970, the Indian administration moved them to Strait Island, where only 50 remain dependent on the government for their survival.

Asked about a larger impetus of viewing the island and its inhabitants as 'resources', Mukherjee drew a parallel between the Indian government and the British. "India has always acted as a coloniser on the islands. Like the British, it has treated them as a resource. The needs of the original inhabitants have been an afterthought. In that respect, the situation is much worse now than it was under previous governments," she said.

This exists, alongside an idea of viewing the hunter-gatherers as 'savages'. An idea, not restricted to the mainland but also the settlers on the islands. "People on the mainland and in fact many people on the Andamans who are from the mainland, think of the hunter-gatherers as “jungles” or “savages.” They think they can only bring benefits to them, as Chau did, and completely fail to understand them or to respect them and the choices they make. In recent years, a series of decisions are emanating from Delhi that will have a devastating impact on all the tribes of the Andaman and Nicobar islands. These include a railway line through the Jarawa reserve, a massive increase in tourist influx, etc.," Mukherjee pointed out.

The partial relaxation of norms is part of a larger Rs 10,000 crore project to wrestle the islands into modernity by encouraging tourism and boosting trade. Mukherjee called these "grand plans" a "gross conflict with environmental reality" and underlined that the Indian government had no idea about how fragile the islands are.

"These worlds can only collide with devastating effect to the Andaman tribes. Nor will the other people on the Andamans fare well. The Indian government has no idea how ecologically fragile the Andamans are. The only fresh water sources on South and Middle Andaman are from the Jarawa forest. If the Jarawa cease to protect their forest, and those are damaged, the fresh water will dry up and the lakhs of people on the islands will no longer be able to live there. Also, if there are 24 new ports as planned, container terminals and such like, the pollution of the water will be such that corals will die, accidents will lead to oil slicks, and the tourism will die," she said.

The plans to increase tourism has also brought on the spectre of 'tribal tourism', as pointed out by a number of activists. In 2013, the Supreme Court had banned tourists from taking the Andaman Trunk Road (ATR) after a video shot by a journalist showed policemen forcing six Jarawa women to dance for tourists.

Asked about whether the lifting of restriction could be seen as a larger impetus to promote 'tribal tourism', Mukherjee responded, "It is entirely possible. The lifting of restrictions was also for Strait Island. There is nothing to see there except for the Great Andamanese."

But she argued it was possible that development - a longstanding demand of the settlers in the island - could co-exist alongside protecting the fragile islands and its indigenous communities. "The claims of the settlers are valid too, and don’t necessarily conflict with those of the Andamanese. For instance, developing a shipping route that will serve as an alternative to the road through the Jarawa reserve, has been a long-standing demand of the Supreme Court."

But the new development plans contradicted each other. "All the shipping traffic that is envisaged will kill the tourism. There is nothing uglier than a container terminal, and the pollution of the sea will be tremendous. These contradictions are not fully through or deal with in the rush to develop the islands. A lot of the impetus for massive infrastructure is coming from military installations planned mostly for the Nicobars. The settlers don’t play a part in this," she said.

"In the eyes of New Delhi, everyone is dispensable when it comes to projecting power. When defense planners describe the islands as ‘unsinkable aircraft carriers’, you have to realise they are imagining them being bombed till there isn’t much left on the surface," she added.


Please read in entirety and please do puke. Good thing is that a cockroach who could not sell her "physics" is now pimping her pen.

Well the above cockroach has been coopted after writing her book "Churchill's dark side". http://www.madhusree.com/churchill.html

prasan
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 43
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 19:36

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby prasan » 30 Nov 2018 19:33

Undermining National Security? Christian Priest Helps French Journalists Enter Prohibited Nuclear Area In Tamil Nadu


Two french investigative journalists have been booked by Tamil Nadu police for illegally trespassing into the prohibited zone belonging to Indian Rare Earth Limited, which comes under Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), in Kanyakumari, as reported by Times Now.

According to the reports, the French duo were able to click several photographs and record videos of IREL and nearby villages, even though cell phones and cameras are not permitted in the area.

Manakudi Parish Priest Father Hildas, along with two others has been accused of helping the two French in a breach of national security. Sriram works as a cameraman with a Tamil news channel, Anandkumar works as a freelancer for a Tamil satellite television channel.

Advertisement

After being booked under IPC section 447 (punishment for criminal trespass), 14(A) (penalty for entry in restricted areas), 14(B) (penalty for using forged passport) and 14(C) (penalty for abetment) of the Foreigners Act 1946, the duo was able to flee the country with the help of their Indian accomplices once the search started.

The journalists were reportedly camping in Kanyakumari with the help of Father Hildas and journalists Anandkumar and Sriram. They arrived in Delhi on 11 November 2018 after which they travelled to Manavalakurichi in Kanyakumari on 26 November, where they met their local accomplices.

As soon as the IREL officials informed the police, they arrived at the spot but the accused had already fled. All the accomplices have been detained, and further investigation is being carried out by the police.


https://swarajyamag.com/insta/undermini ... tamil-nadu

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 18386
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby chetak » 05 Dec 2018 10:01

The xtian fear of brahmins seems to be deeply embedded and institutionalized not only as a deliberate doctrine of conversion but also, historically, the very raison d'être for the speed of xtian conversions in India being impeded and blunted.

The dalit (intellectuals and scholars) have been slyly and cleverly co-opted to keep the embers of this alleged "Brahminism" fanned and burning using false narratives and sensational reportage.

Christianity’s verdict on Hinduism: It is incompatible with the ‘will of God’

Christianity’s verdict on Hinduism: It is incompatible with the ‘will of God’

Christians, through the centuries, have critiqued the fundamental tenets of Hinduism through the lens of Christianity. They do not perceive Hinduism as a valid path that leads to the Almighty but a deluded religion that grapples with superstition and absurd beliefs.

K BHATTACHARJEE
DECEMBER 4, 2018

Christian missionaries have always been clear about their intentions in India and religious conversions. They have been decreed by Jesus Christ himself to spread Christianity all over the world and they zealously believe that unless every group in the world has Christian representation, Judgment Day will not arrive.

In their bid to convert Hindus, missionaries have always maintained that it is essential to understand Hinduism and Hindu society. They have often wondered why despite their efforts, Hinduism hasn’t fallen to Christianity yet and reflect deeply on what their strategy should be going forward. Therefore, it is imperative for Hindus to understand how Christianity perceives them if they are to ward off the gravest threats to their way of life.

In the March 1934 issue of ‘Thought’ (Fordham University Quarterly), A.J. Siqueira wrote, “Our purpose has been to analyze the philosophical and theological complex of the Hindu mind in its attitude to Christ. Hinduism has no infallible exponent, no official interpreter, no authentic “catechism” of doctrine: quot capita tot sententiae. So we have drawn largely on Hindu sources, avoiding the intricacies of Hindu philosophy that would lead the uninitiated reader a merry dance. Indeed, the missionary who would preach Christ to the Hindu should understand the Hindu mentality, lest he beat the air in vain or betray his Master by a timid compromise.” Thus, they were clear that they needed to understand the Hindu mind to be able to make missionary work more effective.

The late Reverend Charles F. Aiken, who was a Professor of History of Religion at Catholic University, wrote of Hinduism, “Hinduism, in its narrower sense, is the conglomeration of religious beliefs and practices existing in India that have grown out of ancient Brahminism, (q.v.), and which stand in sharp contrast to orthodox, traditional Brahminism today. Hinduism is the popular, distorted, corrupted side of Brahminism.” Here, we see a clear effort to alienate Brahmins from Hinduism and to portray Hinduism as a derivative of ‘Brahminism’, contrary to all established fact. He writes further, “In the pantheistic all-god Brahma, the whole world of deities, spirits, and other objects of worship is contained, so that Hinduism adapts itself to every form of religion, from the lofty monotheism of the cultivated Brahmin to the degraded nature-worship of the ignorant, half savage peasant.” India, he says, “has much of value to learn from Christian civilization.”

Sir Monier-Williams, a renowned scholar, said of Hinduism in his book “Brahminism and Hinduism” (1891), “it holds out the right hand of brotherhood to nature-worshippers, demon-worshippers, animal-worshippers, tree-worshippers, fetish-worshippers. It does not scruple to permit the most grotesque forms of idolatry and the most degrading varieties of superstition. And it is to this latter fact that yet another remarkable peculiarity of Hinduism is mainly due—namely, that in no other system in the world is the chasm more vast which separates the religion of the higher, cultured, and thoughtful classes from that of the lower, uncultured and unthinking masses”. Thus, we have reason to suspect that the term ‘Brahminism’ as is currently discussed and understood in the academia has evangelical origins.

In fact, Christian missionaries paid special attention to the Brahmin caste. As per Catherine Cornille, Catholics in the 19th century firmly believed that conversion of Brahmans would lead to a conversion of the rest of the people of India.

Early missionary texts also reveal that Christian missionaries in the 19th century did not really view the caste system in as much of an evil as it does now. Jean-Antoine Dubois, in his book “Hindu manners, customs and ceremonies” that has come to be regarded as an authoritative figure of scholarship, wrote, “For my part, having lived many years on friendly terms with the Hindus, I have been able to study their national life and character closely, and I have arrived at a quite opposite decision on the subject of caste. I believe caste division to be in many respects the chef d’oeuvre, the happiest effort of Hindu legislation. I am persuaded that it is simply and solely due to the distribution of the people into castes that India did not lapse in the state of barbarism, and that she preserved and perfected the arts and sciences of civilization whilst most other nations of the earth remained in a state of barbarism.”

Thus, it appears that Christian demonization of the caste system occurred when they realized after careful introspection that they could use the caste fault-lines within Hindu society to convert the populace.

Alexander Duff, the first overseas missionary of the Church of Scotland to India, wrote, “Our present purpose not being to expose, but simply to exhibit the system of Hinduism, it has all along been taken for granted that in the eye of the intelligent Christian, its best confutation must be the extravagance and absurdity of its tenets.”

Anthony E. Clark, who teaches history at Whitworth University, in his article “All is Not One” elaborates on “Hinduism’s Incompatibility with Christian thought”. He says, “Catholic Christians are beholden to truth, and truth is our best defence against the claims of religious pluralism, which is the foundational assertion of Hinduism.” Clark also believes that there is a contradiction in the belief that “all religious traditions are different paths to the same end.” He states emphatically, “To assert that two conflicting positions are in fact correlative is not only irrational but untruthful. Christianity’s claim to be the only true faith, founded upon the natural and revealed certainties given by one God, cannot by sound reasoning fit into the ideals of religious pluralism.” He adds further, “One of the principal Catholic objections to the Hindu belief that all things are indistinguishable from one another is that it denies the possibility of a creator God. This and the notion of a Brahmanic pantheism are forcefully rejected in the Nicene Creed, in which Catholics proclaim, “I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.””

Thus, we see clearly, contrary to the popular approach by Hindu spiritual leaders of asserting that Christianity is merely another path that leads to God, Christian intellectuals are very clear on the incompatibility between Hinduism and Christianity. They not only deny the virtues of religious pluralism but exalt Christianity’s rejection of it as one of the Abrahamic religion’s principle virtues.

The zeal of Christian missionaries can be gauged from the fact that the then Pope, John Paul II, exhorted Christian evangelicals to convert the region during his visit to India in 1999. The Chicago Tribune reported, “The 79-year-old pontiff exhorted a synod of Asian bishops to evangelize the region in the coming millennium. He told them to go forth and conquer the continent for Christ just as the church had done in Europe during the first millennium and in the Americas in the second.”

Christianity has always been against all forms of Hindu worship. It has a special enmity towards Yoga. The Nagaland Baptist Church Council, earlier this year, had directed its associate Churches to not practice Yoga as it is incompatible with Christianity. Christian parents in the USA have frequently objected to Yoga being taught in schools. Christian priests oppose Yoga because it puts the human soul in “jeopardy“. The Syro Malabar Church in Kerala asserted that Yoga is against Christian principles and should not be practised as a means to get “closer to God”. Even Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger himself, who would go on to become Pope Benedict XVI, warned Catholics against ‘eastern meditation practices’ such as Zen and Yoga in a letter to Bishops in 1989.

The Hindu response to Christian objection to Yoga has been to forfeit its claim to Yoga which directly plays into the hands of Christian missionaries. Hindus should not sacrifice their claim over spiritual practices if Christians object to them because it merely portrays the insecurity of Hindus.

Another Christian scholar says, “Hinduism lacks any understanding that God created this world for a good purpose. It is common for Hindus to speak of God bringing the universe into existence simply as a “playful” exercise of His power. Also lacking is a conception of God as infinitely holy and righteous and as the One to whom we as His creatures are accountable for the way we conduct our lives.”

One of the most fundamental issues Christians have with Hinduism is idolatry. The worship of idols is denounced in the holy scripture of the faith itself. Ed Stetzer asserts proudly on Christianity Today, “As our love for God increases, our tolerance for idolatry will decrease.” On the other hand, murthi-pujan is essential To Hinduism. Although, there are certain strains of Hinduism that decry idolatry, which could have emerged as a consequence of Christian influence in the medieval past, the majority of Hindus cannot imagine worship without idols.

Thus, we see that Christian missionaries have a clear critique of Hinduism based on their religious scriptures. To us, it appears bigotry but to them, it’s the commandment of their God. While Hindus tend to concede ground to not appear bigoted, they do not care about such indictments as they perceive themselves to be following the will of God.

Christians, based on their understanding of Hinduism, have devoted a great deal of time to perfecting the tactics used to convert Hindus. There are numerous websites on the internet which offer advise missionaries on how to convert Hindus. One such website says, “ Offer Jesus’ Forgiveness. Bakht Singh, a convert from Hinduism and an Indian evangelist, once said, “I have never yet failed to get a hearing if I talk to [Hindus] about forgiveness of sins and peace and rest in your heart” (Hesselgrave, 169). Forgiveness is certainly a need for Hindus because it is not available in their karma-based belief system. The law of karma is like a law of nature — every cause has its effect and there is no place for mercy. The fact that forgiveness is not available in Hinduism troubles many Hindus, for they are aware that the actions that bind them to this illusory realm keep accumulating, and the prospect of escape is hopelessly remote.”

Conclusion
We see in this article that Christians, through the centuries, have critiqued the fundamental tenets of Hinduism through the lens of Christianity. They do not perceive Hinduism as a valid path that leads to the Almighty but a deluded religion that grapples with superstition and absurd beliefs. Furthermore, they have evaluated Hindu society with the objective of conversions in mind.

They have also changed tactics depending on the situation at hand and at some point, realized that they could use the caste fault-lines to their benefit. Conversely, Hinduism views them as one of the many paths that lead to the attainment of salvation. Unfortunately, Christians haven’t accorded to them the same respect. They regard Hinduism as incompatible with Christianity and their missionary work is dedicated to eradicating it.

There has been, however, a Hindu intellectual response to the onslaught of Christianity. That will be the subject of a separate article.


K Bhattacharjee
Average in every department

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3813
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 05 Dec 2018 10:47

Yoga comes up again. What is indeed so subversive about it?

The antipathy is in a sense justified. Yoga is now American. I will forgo outrage over cultural appropriation opriation. It is as much American as Indian. Americans do not need Hindus to defend the practice. The Christian fear is that yoga is the thin edge of a mind expanding discipline deeply subversive to Christian principles and other arrant monopolies of truth.

Many Indians will object to the Americanisation of yoga.it is much like Hindustani films in Arabia. They are now part of Arab culture.it is best to accept these as gifts from India. They bring solace perhaps joy to others. That is enough.

Haresh
BRFite
Posts: 739
Joined: 30 Jun 2009 17:27

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Haresh » 05 Dec 2018 16:56

I have encountered a few of these evangelicals out to convert on the streets of London.
When I tell them I am not interested they will reply "Salam allakham" when I challenge them on this, why are you saying this they say, you are moslem, when I state I am not and explain my Indian heritage, they pull out the old caste argument.

Now I am not particularly religious, but I will always stand my ground to these ignorant bigots.
The counter to their arguments is:
xtianity as a tool of imperialism
sex abuse/perversion within the church.
The wealth of the church

On my recent trip to Punjab/North India I did ask a fair few of my relations about societal changes.
They stated that things have changed. Where as neighbourhood's were segregated on caste lines before, with increasing urbanisation this is changing. Previously "low" castes, who have started businesses & now have wealth will buy & build in any neighbourhood they can. The new "High" caste seems to be wealth and that is all.

I once met a Philipino xtian of Indian origin, she told me quite openly that she considers herself Hindu!!

prasan
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 43
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 19:36

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby prasan » 05 Dec 2018 20:44

prasan wrote:Undermining National Security? Christian Priest Helps French Journalists Enter Prohibited Nuclear Area In Tamil Nadu


Two french investigative journalists have been booked by Tamil Nadu police for illegally trespassing into the prohibited zone belonging to Indian Rare Earth Limited, which comes under Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), in Kanyakumari, as reported by Times Now.

.


https://swarajyamag.com/insta/undermini ... tamil-nadu


Seven Unanswered Questions About French Journalists’ Secret Visit To Out-Of-Bound Areas Near India Rare Earths Limited In Kanyakumari



Last week, a visit by two French journalists, Jules Giraudat and Arthur Bouvart, to Kanyakumari and their bid to trespass into a prohibited zone of government-owned Indian Rare Earths Limited (IREL) created a furore in Tamil Nadu. The state police have registered a case against the two for trespassing into a sensitive area as it is under the wings of the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE).

The journalists had reportedly shot videos and taken photographs of the area, where even carrying mobile phones is prohibited. The cases against these journalists are that of criminal trespass, entering a prohibited area, forgery of passport and abetment under the Foreigners Act, 1946.

In connection with the visit of these two French journalists, police detained two Indian journalists, D Anandhakumar and M Sriram. They were released after a few hours of questioning. A local parish priest at Manakudy in Kanyakumari district is also under the scanner.



Anandhakumar had allegedly helped the foreign journalists to rush to Thiruvananthapuram from where they took a flight to New Delhi before departing for France. Three persons, all locals, have been detained for further questioning and police are continuing their investigation.

This is what the mainstream media has reported until now, but there is more to this issue. Joining the French journalists in support is the Alliance for Media Freedom. The alliance, in which chairman of the Hindu Publishing Group N Ram is a key member, has criticised the detention of the two Indian journalists by Tamil Nadu police, saying they were peddling a false narrative.

The alliance says the journalists had gone to Kanyakumari to investigate illegal beach sand mining and the Indian journalists were not aware of the French journalists’ intentions. It has come up with quite a few points in defence of the French as well as Indian journalists, which you can find here.



Be that as it may, but there are quite a few unanswered questions on the whole episode, which the media is trying to sweep under the carpet. First, let us give you some additional information that Swarajya had gathered while looking into the matter.

The French journalists had arrived on 11 November and reached Madurai on 20 November before landing in Kanyakumari on 23 November. They had gone to the site, where an international container terminal is being planned at Colachel in Kanyakumari district on 24 November.

That evening, the journalists met eight priests in the region at the residence of a retired Tamil Nadu government official, who was a conferred Indian Administrative Service (IAS) officer. The government official, in the garb of environmental protection, has been opposing any project that Tamil Nadu or the central government has been coming up with recently.


The official opposed a flyover in Nagercoil, the eight-lane Salem-Chennai green expressway corridor, the Colachel port proposal and another proposal for airport. “In short, he opposes anything that is aimed at development. No where in the world any project comes up without causing difficulty for some people and as a retired IAS officer he should know that,” says a Kanyakumari source in the know of the entire episode related to the journalists.

This is just one part of the story. Here are some of the key questions on the French and Indian journalists’ travel to Kanyakumari.

First, the case of illegal beach sand mining is being heard by the Madras High Court. Arguments are being placed before the court with companies like V V Minerals that are opposed to the ban on sand mining, bringing advocates from New Delhi.



There are adequate contacts in Chennai and there are voluminous records with the Madras High Court on the complaints of beach sand mining, including report by a special committee headed by IAS official Gagandeep Singh Bedi. When this is the reality, why the four did not visit Chennai to arm themselves with the latest and all details?

Second, if the journalists were doing a professional work, why did they take to their heels and rush off to Thiruvananthapuram airport? They left behind all their belongings in their hotel room and fled. If they were sure that they had nothing to hide, why did they flee like anti-social elements?

Third, why did the Indian journalists book the rooms in their name when they had foreigners in their company. Why didn’t they produce all details on the foreigners at the place where they stayed ? The question arises especially when the Indian journalists say that they were not aware of their plans to visit the prohibited Indian Rare Earths Limited area.


Four, if the French team was keen on finding out the truth, why didn’t it go for taking the views of the public? Why was it keen only on talking to the group of priests at the residence of the retired government official, whose biases are very evident. Why should it go to IREL, when it could actually have gone to the sites of the miners in places like Thoothukudi?

Five, isn’t it true that the Freedom Voices Network Team doesn’t represent any media, be it print or visual? Isn’t it a fact that accreditation rules are different in India and France? Has Commission de la Carte d'Identite des Journalistes Professionnels, to which the French journalists are accredited, got any recognition from the Indian government for the investigation it undertakes? Or has the French government discussed this issue with the Indian government?

Six, what has a parish priest got to do with journalism and reporting? Even if he were to provide some information that he might have, why should he accompany them to the prohibited IREL site?


Seven, why is the Alliance for Media Freedom selective in defending journalists? Did it raise any voice for the detention of Abhijit Iyer Mitra, who was put behind bars by the Odisha government for over a month, for his alleged derogatory remarks on the Sun Temple, Konark.

Mitra was kept confined to prison despite apologising to the state assembly. In fact, he had to be hospitalised after his health start deteriorating before the state government decided to pardon him on 4 December.


https://swarajyamag.com/politics/seven- ... K7V9nCjUfA

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3813
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 05 Dec 2018 21:08

There is less generational mobility, segregation, incarceration, summary killings of low castes in India than of US blacks. That does not even include ‘miscegenation’ fears.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: V_Raman and 48 guests