Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22 2015

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 28 May 2015 08:37

SSridhar wrote:Pakistan has to be destroyed and there is simply, simply no other option.

Hear hear. In any case, at least India does not have a worthless cretin like Manmohan Singh in charge these days to go around repeating "a strong and stable pakistan is in India's interest". Thank aandava for small mercies.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 28 May 2015 08:53

what's the word now - chutzpah, I think!!!

Pakistan passes resolution condemning Parrikar's remarks, says it's an 'open confession of sponsoring terrorism'

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 28 May 2015 08:55

With pakistan it is always choothiyapah or choothspah, not chutzpah. A country that is terrorist central pointing fingers elsewhere, that is just plain comedy, like the pakis are…joke of the millenium.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 28 May 2015 09:01

Modi, Doval and now Parrikar seemed to have set the proverbial cat amongst the Paki pigeons, barely firing a shot.

This together with the overall nonchalance and indifference towards them seems to have gotten theirs in a twist much more than LoC firings did.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 28 May 2015 09:07

Anindya wrote:what's the word now - chutzpah, I think!!!

Pakistan passes resolution condemning Parrikar's remarks, says it's an 'open confession of sponsoring terrorism'

What they are telling is this. Pakistan's terrorists nurtured, funded, trained by Pakistani Army which belong to the Jihadi State of Pakistan belongs to them and it's not for sale to India as long as you dont pay us. You cannot sign direct contract with the terrorists. You have to buy them from us, the Uniformed Jihadis.

sum · Post by **sum** » 28 May 2015 10:40

Kashi wrote:Modi, Doval and now Parrikar seemed to have set the proverbial cat amongst the Paki pigeons, barely firing a shot.

This together with the overall nonchalance and indifference towards them seems to have gotten theirs in a twist much more than LoC firings did.

Cannot imagine the browning of salwars taking place in GHQ everyday if even a rumour is reported.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 28 May 2015 10:50

shiv wrote:
We need to get out of this idiotic mindset. there is a huge diference between satyameva jayate and this idiocy.

Brilliant quote.
Hakim Ji: I tweeted this quote without your permission though. Do check your teetar TL

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 May 2015 16:26

shiv wrote: The problem with Hindus in particular and Indians in general is that we are afraid to point at Pakistan and Arab countries and say that Islamic people in Islamic countries are showing despicable, bigoted, murderous behaviour in the name of Islam. We feel that if we say this (even though it is perfectly true) India's social fabric will break apart and Indian Muslims will go on the rampage - and so it is necessary for us to lie to ourselves that Pakistanis are true vasudeva kutumbakam-ologists who are temporarily going apeshit and will become OK with some love......

We need to get out of this idiotic mindset. there is a huge difference between satyameva jayate and this idiocy.

That is, we too imagine that there is some "real" Islam out there which is vasudeva-kutumbakam-ist and that these Arab countries and Islamic people in Islamic countries are following in name only.

The other extreme is we imagine Islam is a system of colonization and exploitation woven into a religion. Then Muslims who are quietly, peacefully pious are perceived as sleeper agents, hypocrites who will suddenly change and follow the "real" Islam by turning into violent jihadis.

There is no need to imagine anything. Satyameva Jayate requires statement of the truth without any embroidery in any direction. The truth is like the sharp edge of a razor and difficult to traverse, to rephrase an Upanisadic pronouncement.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 May 2015 17:38

Pakistan aware of India's campaign against China-Pak Economic Corridor: FO - Dawn

Following a series of statements by military and civilian leaders regarding Indian involvement in terrorist activities in Pakistan, Foreign Office spokesperson Qazi Khalilullah said Thursday that Pakistan is "well aware of India's alleged plans to sabotage the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) project and its campaign against the corridor".

The FO spokesperson, however, underscored during the weekly media briefing that steps are being taken to ensure the completion of the project which is vital to the entire region.

Responding to a series of questions regarding the recent statements made by Indian Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar about sponsoring terrorism to counter terrorism, he said: "The Indian defence minister's statements have confirmed Pakistan's apprehensions regarding India's involvement in terrorist activities in the country."

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 28 May 2015 17:43

A_Gupta wrote: The other extreme is we imagine Islam is a system of colonization and exploitation woven into a religion. Then Muslims who are quietly, peacefully pious are perceived as sleeper agents, hypocrites who will suddenly change and follow the "real" Islam by turning into violent jihadis.

That is not an extreme view, but a statement of fact that applies to those muslim individuals who are aware of the contents of the Quran, mostly via their mullah, especially given that most religious muslims who swear by the Quran either know nothing about the contents or are fully aware of it and think it is quite alright. There is a very small minority that acknowledges that all of islamic assholery originates from the ideas written and codified in the book, like Tarek Fatah or Ayaan Hirsi ali.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 28 May 2015 17:45

shiv wrote:
SSridhar wrote:
India's 'prodigal son', 'long-lost brother' approach and its failure to appreciate the true intention of Pakistan in this early event has been a very troubling root cause for our problems with Pakistan. Even today, unfortunately, there is no understanding of the real intention of Pakistan.

Pakistan has to be destroyed and there is simply, simply no other option.
There is something here that makes me digress into philosophy. Indians really do show a Hindu mode of behaviour where we tend to excuse the other (the Pakistani) and let him off saying that in the long term he will understand his folly and the world requires friendship and brotherhood. The Hindu mind is wiling to set aside the identity and name of God in favour of friendship and brotherhood and believes that everyone will willingly see the wisdom of this. This is a Hindu blind spot.

What the Hindu mind does not understand is that under the Islamic scheme of things Pakistanis (and Arabs for that matter) also believe in friendship and brotherhood - but you have to be Muslim first - at least that was true in 1947. Now you have to be Sunni Muslim. In fact you have to be Sunni Muslim and belong to some sub-group. Since the alternative is violence and killing all in the name of Islam (as we see in Pakistan) - little wonder that there are so many fakes and pretenders and the fakes and pretenders typically save their own asses by supporting the most violent and well armed guys - be it the army, TTP, ISIS or as in the case of Pakistani lawyers - Qadri.

The problem with Hindus in particular and Indians in general is that we are afraid to point at Pakistan and Arab countries and say that Islamic people in Islamic countries are showing despicable, bigoted, murderous behaviour in the name of Islam. We feel that if we say this (even though it is perfectly true) India's social fabric will break apart and Indian Muslims will go on the rampage - and so it is necessary for us to lie to ourselves that Pakistanis are true vasudeva kutumbakam-ologists who are temporarily going apeshit and will become OK with some love. That is why we do daily poojas to "secularism" which means avoid telling the truth if it hurts Muslim sentiment. It is always OK to point at Hindus and say what turds they are. This was exactly the line followed by the last Congress government and it remains to be seen if the Modi government will also fall into this rut. If it does it means that India is under greater pressure to accept this stupidity than we on BRF might imagine.

We need to get out of this idiotic mindset. there is a huge diference between satyameva jayate and this idiocy.

Exactly right. That is one of the reasons I keep harping the words of Sri Aurobindo on Pakistan every chance I get in any forum. Pakistan is an idealogical state (Muslims cannot coexist with other religions) that is in its essence opposite to the idealogy of India (Vasudaiva Kudumbakam and Ekam Sat...) Both cannot just co-exist in peace. It is beyond wishful thinking. Rank stupidity. India and the world must do everything it can to defeat that ideology and the nation that represents the idealogy. Pakistan splitting into 5 different states and its population adopting a moderate and inclusive religious approach would pave the way for these break away states to on their own volition joining an administrative entity under India.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 May 2015 18:17

What the Hindu mind does not understand is that under the Islamic scheme of things Pakistanis (and Arabs for that matter) also believe in friendship and brotherhood - but you have to be Muslim first - at least that was true in 1947. Now you have to be Sunni Muslim.

This is not limited to TSP alone. Its an Abrahamic trait. LokeshCJi can elucidate more eloquently than me, but one has to witness how US "Americnaizes" and appropriates anything exotic and "them" to become part of "us", and what you are left with is the original without a soul. Just witness any of the African American politicans like Obama or Indian American clowns like Haley or Jindal or Verma who are more Catholic and Protestant than the Pope or Archbishop.

Coming to TSP, it is in fact the dream of Pakijabis that they Lord over the subcontinent. They can turn on their charm and guile and reasonableness which fools Hindu elites (and fools many westerners too like Fair didi, but she realized their true colors eventually).

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 May 2015 20:10

A_Gupta wrote: That is, we too imagine that there is some "real" Islam out there which is vasudeva-kutumbakam-ist and that these Arab countries and Islamic people in Islamic countries are following in name only.

The other extreme is we imagine Islam is a system of colonization and exploitation woven into a religion. Then Muslims who are quietly, peacefully pious are perceived as sleeper agents, hypocrites who will suddenly change and follow the "real" Islam by turning into violent jihadis.

There is an interesting issue that crops up here and I will try and articulate it in words.

The pious moderate Muslim can be like any one of us, and feels genuine discomfort at being told that other Muslims are bigoted and are killers. To us, the endless series of murders and massacres over cries of "Allah ho Akbar" make this very obvious. What we tend to look for is an acknowledgement from the moderate that some Muslims (for example "a minority of Muslims") are violent.

Interestingly an unequivocal acknowledgement of this type does not come. Any demand for "acknowledging" that Muslims can be violent is always countered by the statement that "anyone can be violent" and this argument is illustrated by massacres supposed to have been conducted by Christians, Jews and Hindus. This creates a quid pro quo situation in which any accusation of Muslim violence is accepted by even the most moderate Muslim only with the counter acknowledgement that "Anyone can be violent".

While it is true that "Anyone can be violent" in principle, it begs the question "Why are Muslims killing Muslims in Pakistan, and now Iraq and Syria." There is no equivalent blatant murder of Christians by Christians, Jews by Jews, Buddhists by Buddhists or Hindus by Hindus. As far as I can see this is a crunch point.

No matter how moderate the Muslim, asking him why Muslims massacre each other in the name of Islam is a difficult question because it forces him to acknowledge that there is a problem. Such an acknowledgement does not come easily - and that is the interesting part. The most common answer is that the killers are "Not Muslims". The logical counter to this is to ask how a person called "Fahtullah" or "Ajmal Kasab" was egged on to kill non Muslims in the name of Allah if neither the killers nor the handlers were Muslim. Or was Qadri not a Muslim when he killed Salman Taseer?

There is a fundamental indoctrination of every single Muslim, moderate or not, that evil cannot come from Islam and evil cannot come from a Muslim. Both these are blatant untruths that are defended by the simple expedient of "deflecting blame" - i.e if it is evil, it ain't Islam, and it can't be by a Muslim. But the indoctrination poses a problem for those of us who have to deal with good, friendly Muslims.

I am sure there are Muslims who know damn well that this is the case, but the structure of Islamic society - somewhat like Orwell's 1984, ensures that internal spies and coercion within the group cause the Muslim who understands the issues to keep his mouth tightly shut.

This is why we have in Pakistan the constant "deflection of blame" from the actual perpetrators to"someone else". Pakistan begs the EU to revise its visa policies because Pakistanis are not responsible for lack of polio immunization - it is "someone else, who is encouraging and funding the militants, who are preventing polio vaccination drives".

This is not just a Pakistani trait - it extends all the way across islam. Islam and Muslims never hold Islam or Muslims responsible for anything negative or bad. And anyone who blames them is "discriminating against Muslims". And, conveniently, "discrimination against Muslims" is a well known issue that the Quran deals with and has answers for that. The answers are that "Non Muslims will discriminate against Muslims. They will hold Muslims responsible for things that Muslims do not do and can never do (like being evil). It is in fact the accusers of Muslims who are evil. Therefore Muslims must band together and fight evil, which is always outside of Islam and comes from non Muslims"

There is a self fulfilling circular prophecy here that poses two problems
1. It prevents all reform
2. it leads to denial that anything is wrong even when Muslims are cutting off each others heads blatantly in all parts of the world.

Islam is in deep crisis. Of course this will be denied. But that is what it is. It is another matter that we cannot say such things in front of secular Hindus who will immediately change the subject and say "Hindus are in crisis - so why talk of Islam?". But that only changes the subject. It does not change the facts.

It may in fact, be that Pakistan's failure is the failure of Islam. Naturally, this will be denied.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 28 May 2015 20:14

A_Gupta wrote: That is, we too imagine that there is some "real" Islam out there which is vasudeva-kutumbakam-ist and that these Arab countries and Islamic people in Islamic countries are following in name only.

The other extreme is we imagine Islam is a system of colonization and exploitation woven into a religion. Then Muslims who are quietly, peacefully pious are perceived as sleeper agents, hypocrites who will suddenly change and follow the "real" Islam by turning into violent jihadis.

The "Other Extreme" is accurate definition of Islam as far as non-Muslims are concerned. A Tidbit from West Asia thread...

VijayKarthik wrote: Tidbit: The Tajik spl ops boss disappeared a few weeks back and a lot of them qn as to what happened to him. A few hinted that he was getting militant and was supporting IS greatly. A lot of them scoffed at those rumors. Well, long story short: looks like he has joined the IS.

And we can live without below statement when talking about Islam. It is has nothing to do with Upanishadic pronouncements.

There is no need to imagine anything. Satyameva Jayate requires statement of the truth without any embroidery in any direction. The truth is like the sharp edge of a razor and difficult to traverse, to rephrase an Upanisadic pronouncement.

Biggest problem for Hindus in particular & Indians at large is this stupid & idiotic application of Upanishadic pronouncements to every sadist/rapist/genocider ideology/civilization. This is nothing but an insult to those very upanisads.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 May 2015 22:25

shiv wrote:
A_Gupta wrote: It may in fact, be that Pakistan's failure is the failure of Islam. Naturally, this will be denied.

Only Allah can decide this, so hasten the event to meet Allah who has separated falsehood of intellect from the truth of Belief in New Medina. It do not behoove New Medinites to claim the mantle without great bloodshed among its inhabitants. Let Ahmadis drink Bannu Qurayza lemonade while Shias get Khyber lollipop .

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 28 May 2015 22:52

Prisoners’ Extradition Treaty: Pakistani diplomat in Thailand surrenders before investigators

ISLAMABAD: In fear of being blacklisted, a top Pakistani diplomat accused of illegally sending a foreign prisoner from Bangkok to Islamabad has decided to cooperate with investigators.

“Yes, we received information that a counselor from the Pakistani Embassy in Bangkok along with other officials is coming to Pakistan to appear before investigators on May 29,” confirmed Inam Ghani, head of the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) team investigating the case.

Cheers

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 28 May 2015 23:37

Ha ha, all you small hearted kaffirs rejoicing of the hot air on Pakistani channels, while they are leveraging precisely that to conquer the Hindoos:

India's scorcher: What's behind the heat wave and when will it end?

India is experiencing Loo winds, hot and dry westerly gusts from Pakistan and northwest India which dries out the region, according to CNN meteorologist Monica Garrett.

Anyway, that's official recognition of what BRF maintains is true of Shitland.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 29 May 2015 02:12

So what if there is danger to others from contracting polio virus, the world should help Pakistan by not imposing any travel restrictions and allow free movement of pakistanis especially in the EU countries

.

Pakistan has asked the European Union (EU) to relax travel restrictions imposed on it due to the increasing polio cases in the country.

The issue of restrictions came up for discussion on Tuesday during a meeting of a German parliamentary delegation with President Mamnoon Hussain. Hussain called for relaxing the restrictions and said that international community should be considerate and help Pakistan to work towards eradication of polio virus, Dawn reported.

Hussain told German parliamentarians that Pakistan is committed to eradicating polio.

The president said the main cause of the increase in the number of polio cases in recent years was terrorism because of which many tribal areas in the country were still inaccessible. (of course this terrorism events just happen by themselves pakistan did not create this problem)

Pakistan has asked the 28-member European Union to relax travel restrictions imposed on it, the report said. "Pakistan is not responsible for the situation,

but the elements who caused the spread of terrorism in the region," he said.

He assured the delegation that Pakistan was committed to eradicating the disease and the situation was now improving.

The president also informed the delegation that the government was taking effective measures to curb terrorism, violation of human rights, discrimination against minorities and gender inequality.

The delegation is headed by Dagmar G Wohrl, MP and Chairwoman of the Committee on Economic Cooperation and Development.

Pakistan faced international humiliation when the World Health Organisation (WHO) imposed travel restrictions on the country last year for failure to curb the polio virus. Already it has been decided that every Pakistani will have to produce a certificate showing polio vaccination for any foreign travel from June 1.

Pakistan, Afghanistan and Nigeria are the only countries in the world where polio remains endemic.

Militant groups often attack polio teams as they see vaccination campaigns a cover for espionage. There are also long running rumours about polio drops causing infertility.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 29 May 2015 02:52

CRamS wrote:

What the Hindu mind does not understand is that under the Islamic scheme of things Pakistanis (and Arabs for that matter) also believe in friendship and brotherhood - but you have to be Muslim first - at least that was true in 1947. Now you have to be Sunni Muslim.

This is not limited to TSP alone. Its an Abrahamic trait. LokeshCJi can elucidate more eloquently than me, but one has to witness how US "Americnaizes" and appropriates anything exotic and "them" to become part of "us", and what you are left with is the original without a soul. Just witness any of the African American politicans like Obama or Indian American clowns like Haley or Jindal or Verma who are more Catholic and Protestant than the Pope or Archbishop.

Coming to TSP, it is in fact the dream of Pakijabis that they Lord over the subcontinent. They can turn on their charm and guile and reasonableness which fools Hindu elites (and fools many westerners too like Fair didi, but she realized their true colors eventually).

Cramji:
I fully endorse what you and others have said here and therefore I strongly disagree with the Indian Government decision to grant a visa to the grandson of the Pak Ideologist- Poet Iqbal; in this context, I quote, below, from Author, V.S. Naipul's seminal work - Beyond Belief; in the last paragraph of a chapter, aptly titled - A Criminal Enterprise. This is what he had to say :

The case for Pakistan was made seriously for the first time in 1930 by poet, Mohamed Iqbal, in a speech to the conference of the pre partition Muslim League . The tone of the speech is more civil and seemingly reasoned than the 1947 street slogans; but the impulses are the same . Iqbal came from a recently converted Hindu family; and perhaps only someone who felt himself a new convert could have spoken as he did.
Islam is not like Christianity , Iqbal says. It is not a religion of private conscience and private practice. Islam comes with certain 'legal concepts'. These concepts have 'civic significance ' and create a certain kind of social order. The 'religious ideal' cannot be separated from the social order.' Therefore , the construction of a polity on national lines, if it means a displacement of the Islamic principles of solidarity , is simply unthinkable to a Muslim '. In 1930 a national polity meant an all- Indian one.
[iIt is an extraordinary speech for a thinking man to have made in the twentieth century. What Iqbal is saying in an involved way is that Muslims can live only with other Muslims. If this was meant seriously, it would have implied that the good world, the one to be striven after, was a purely tribal world, parcelled out, every tribe in his corner. This would have been seen as fanciful.]
What is really in the background of this demand for Pakistan and a Muslim polity, what isn't mentioned , is Iqbal's rejection of Hindu India.
His hearers would have understood that ; and they and he would have a concrete idea of what was being rejected. It lay all around them; they only had to look; it was an aspect of the real world. What didn't exist, and what Iqbal's proposal didn't attempt to define , was the new Muslim polity that was to come with the new state. In Iqbal's speech- which was momentous - this polity is an abstraction ; it is poetic. It has to be taken on trust. The prophet's name is even used indirectly to recommend it
The speech is full of ironies today . Pakistan, when it came, disenfranchised the Muslims who stayed behind in India. Bangladesh is on its own. In Pakistan itself the talk is of dissolution. The new Muslim polity there has turned out to be like the old, the one Iqbal knew: you don't have to go down far before you find people who are as voiceless and without representation as when Iqbal made his speech in 1930

Comment: These words were written 17 years ago; they still hold today !

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 29 May 2015 04:45

A_Gupta wrote:
shiv wrote: The problem with Hindus in particular and Indians in general is that we are afraid to point at Pakistan and Arab countries and say that Islamic people in Islamic countries are showing despicable, bigoted, murderous behaviour in the name of Islam. We feel that if we say this (even though it is perfectly true) India's social fabric will break apart and Indian Muslims will go on the rampage - and so it is necessary for us to lie to ourselves that Pakistanis are true vasudeva kutumbakam-ologists who are temporarily going apeshit and will become OK with some love......

We need to get out of this idiotic mindset. there is a huge difference between satyameva jayate and this idiocy.
That is, we too imagine that there is some "real" Islam out there which is vasudeva-kutumbakam-ist and that these Arab countries and Islamic people in Islamic countries are following in name only.

The other extreme is we imagine Islam is a system of colonization and exploitation woven into a religion. Then Muslims who are quietly, peacefully pious are perceived as sleeper agents, hypocrites who will suddenly change and follow the "real" Islam by turning into violent jihadis.

There is no need to imagine anything. Satyameva Jayate requires statement of the truth without any embroidery in any direction. The truth is like the sharp edge of a razor and difficult to traverse, to rephrase an Upanisadic pronouncement.

These so-called extremes are only your rhetorical concoction and not the nature of the truth in this instance.

Colonization/exploitation and peaceful/pious/kindly conduct can and do coexist. This is an observed fact in at least two colonial systems: british imperialism and islamic imperialism. Accurate observation is a key facet of truth.

On the other hand, it is misleading and therefore false to suggest that a colonial/exploitative system produces only barbarians who slaver at the mouth and eat babies.

The ethical question is: is a system evil enough to be fought and ended, despite the presence of virtuous individuals in that system?

What we might call The Hindu Delusion or Error is to treat the existence of good Muslims as the reductio ad absurdum of the proposition that Islam is evil. The kind of spurious extremes that you postulate only serve to arrive at this false conclusion.

Mahabharata war had to be fought even if it meant ending virtuous men like Bhishma and Drona.

shiv talks about the problems with virtuous Muslims. I think he is correct, but there is exactly nothing that can be done about that problem by Hindus. That won't change even if Hindus point out that problem every day for the next 1000 years.

Hindus can, however do something about their intellectual deficiencies that lead them to confuse ignorance, sentimentality and emotionalism, coupled with a certain supercilious stubbornness, with clarity of thought and understanding.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 29 May 2015 04:59

pakis will spread polio and then say

pakistan is the biggest victim of polio.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 29 May 2015 05:05

Gus wrote:pakis will spread polio and then say

pakistan is the biggest victim of polio.

Polio is a metaphor for the contagion that is pakiness.

rajpa · Post by **rajpa** » 29 May 2015 08:04

Pakistan has asked the 28-member European Union to relax travel restrictions imposed on it, the report said. "Pakistan is not responsible for the situation, but the elements who caused the spread of terrorism in the region," he said.

Just a play of words to hide their own responsibility and incompetence/inability to deliver.

A blatant and shameless admission of being a banana republic.

Paki govt has responsibility to eliminate crime and terrorism in its own country. Non-state-actor does not mean that the state has no responsibility to act against crime. Most criminals in Pakland are private individuals and do not belong to the state. Will the state forego their responsibility to punish these criminals? Nowhere in the world does anyone expect that criminals are only state actors. All criminals are the state's responsibility to prevent, catch and punish.

Similarly, if these people are blocking polio vaccines from being administered, it is Paki responsibility to ensure that they are punished and polio vaccination happens correctly. Instead they beg Europe to understand their incompetence. This kind of a deceptive argument strikes a chord with the west as a kind of third world logic. Pakis really love sucking up to their imperial masters. And the west is still "suffering" from white man's burden.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 29 May 2015 08:50

Pakis are obsessed with our PM. Hardly a day goes by when their gutter press does not host a frustrated rant on Modi- be it fasting, overseas trips, economic policies, rallies, selfies, and if there's nothing else to report then take any news about India and rant about Modi's India.

Of course, they ably assisted in this endeavour by RNIs like Javed Naqvi, someone who calls himself Sanjay Kumar, Sapan Kapoor and others.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 May 2015 09:25

MurthyB wrote:Hndia is experiencing Loo winds, hot and dry westerly gusts from Pakistan and northwest India which dries out the region, according to CNN meteorologist Monica Garrett.Anyway, that's official recognition of what BRF maintains is true of Shitland.

New Naam of Bakistan, LooAndastan (luanda)

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 29 May 2015 11:56

There is more to it than it appears.

Pakis are navigating their afghanistan mess well (so far) and are giving more prominent role to the likes of Hafiz Saeed. This might be a thinly veiled warning to not try something stupid.

member_28397 · Post by **member_28397** » 29 May 2015 12:35

Why we never hear about covert strikes by indian SFs in POK taking out militant/porki army camps/strongholds.
POK terror camps and holding stations are close to indian territory.
Indian SFs can sneak into POK from LOC hunt/cut down yahoos and come back.

few raids in a month can keep porkis in check.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 29 May 2015 15:55

^^^ Islam is not like Christianity , Iqbal says. It is not a religion of private conscience and private practice.

This was true of Christianity for a great majority of its existence. It turned into a religion of private conscience and private practice only relatively recently.

It is reiterated often that the gates of ijtihad closed in Islam five or six centuries after its founding. But that means the gates were open for a few centuries. I don't think there is a mathematical theorem that ijtihad must necessarily close as a matter of necessity with a religion like Islam.

That is why I avoid sweeping statements, like KLNMurthy's above, that "Islam is evil". On the target and sufficient are statements like "Mumtaz Qadri killed Salman Taseer in the name of Islam", "In the name of Islam, Saudi religious police drove unveiled girls fleeing a fire back into their hostel", etc., etc.

It is not just Hindus who need a suitable framing of Islam; it is all non-Muslims that need it.

---
There is another problem with the "Islam is evil" meme -- namely, it leads to the question - are we powerless to do anything about the resident evil in our midst? What measures are permissible against such an evil? Is it "no holds barred"? There are two incorrect responses to such a perception - the paralysis we see e.g., in Londonistan, or the final solution of the Nazis - the errors of underestimation and overestimation.

---
Anyway, a pointless discussion which leads nowhere. Want to thank Shiv for his thoughtful essay before I stop.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 29 May 2015 17:09

^^^ In the Mahabharata I read even the Kauravas are not evil in the English sense of the word. Both Duryodhana and Arjuna were given Vishwaroopa darshan by Krishna; and the Devas showered flowers on Duryodhana as he made his dying statement.

Moreover victory in the war was ashes, even the victors' clan was virtually extinguished. Mahabharata one does not choose to fight unless it is forced upon one.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 29 May 2015 17:19

The people who claim to do stuff "in the name of Islam" use the contents of a book that guides their violent and evil behavior, and that is as clear as day, as they are not shy to state it.

And these people, who seem to comprise > 50% of practising muslims today, according to worldwide surveys, are the same ones who support killing anyone who insults islam and find the slaughter of cartoonists and other non muslims as quite justified -- the fallout of this factoid is that all of these people would gladly impose genocide on the rest of the non-muslim populace if they acquire capabilities to do so down the line.

Given that these same people explicitly state that interference of non muslims in their faith is disallowed, non muslims have little choice left dealing with them. Non muslims can pretend that "we should try harder so a lot of people will be killed", but there is a lot of internal resistence among muslims worldwide that will stop any such thing...and this leaves stark and ugly choices for the rest on how to deal with their divinely sanctioned violence and bigotry.

Or non muslims "can take the higher road" to extinction at some point in the future -- I don't care either way as I will be dead by then. Clearly self-preservation is not on the top of one's list once you get "too civilized" and "spiritual". Most people who come up with "spiritual" gibberish in response to real threats as we see in this discussion have little of value to add in this looming conflict.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 29 May 2015 17:37

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ In the Mahabharata I read even the Kauravas are not evil in the English sense of the word. Both Duryodhana and Arjuna were given Vishwaroopa darshan by Krishna; and the Devas showered flowers on Duryodhana as he made his dying statement.

Moreover victory in the war was ashes, even the victors' clan was virtually extinguished. Mahabharata one does not choose to fight unless it is forced upon one.

My response: http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 4#p1848794

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 29 May 2015 17:40

A_Gupta wrote: Moreover victory in the war was ashes, even the victors' clan was virtually extinguished. Mahabharata one does not choose to fight unless it is forced upon one.

Chaarvaka nonsense imposed on Hinduism. Nothing is imposed on anyone.

Both sides "chose" war instead of settling for compromise. Duryodhana didn't want to compromise to give 5villages & Pandavas didnt compromise to take what is rightfully theirs.

Every Indo-Pak war was a calibrated choice. When Pakistan occupied Kargil, India could have "chosen" to give up territory. But it chose war instead.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 May 2015 17:42

On playing kirket with TSP, we have termite filth like this ToiLet reporter who interviewed TSP's PCB chief, who let the b@sarad get away with "politics and kirket should separate" crap without a single follow up, and instead on bha chara nonsense. Why is India so cursed with brain dead scum like that within?

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... mmad-khan/

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 May 2015 17:58

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ In the Mahabharata I read even the Kauravas are not evil in the English sense of the word. Both Duryodhana and Arjuna were given Vishwaroopa darshan by Krishna; and the Devas showered flowers on Duryodhana as he made his dying statement.

Moreover victory in the war was ashes, even the victors' clan was virtually extinguished. Mahabharata one does not choose to fight unless it is forced upon one.

There is a problematic degree of "cosmic righteousness" in these stories and Indian behaviour reflects the idea that people who show the worst possible behaviour may actually have a good side, removed from the viewpoint of the adversary. To an extent - these stories are "too wise" for a system that offers black or white, binary choices in defining and dealing with "evil".

In a strange sense these side by side comparisons reflect the fact that despite the wishy washy dealing with evil behaviour in Hindu folklore based on weighing the pluses and minuses of the evildoer - ultimately the evildoer is done in. In that sense the bald truth is that if push comes to shove Hindus can and will team up to fight deemed evildoers. Ironically both Christianity and Islam offered up more primitive meta-thought processes that started with the assumption that the unbelievers will kill the believer and threaten his belief. So the unbeliever is not expected to show mercy or advanced thought. He is assumed to be evil and eliminated right off. In that sense Christianity and Islam offered a fait accompli to any outsider.

I think the most evolved Hindus have always pushed the Hindu viewpoint that weighs good against bad and allows the "other" a chance to show good. Neither Christianity nor Islam allow this. By their books "good" by definition can only come from within their faith. Outside the faith is bad. The only "proof of goodness" the other can show is to convert to their faith. "Ishwar-Allah tere naam" is atypical Hindu viewpoint that constitutes a "semi-conversion" where the Hindu accepts the other's God but does not reject his own. This satisfies the Hindu but is technically blasphemy for the fundoo Muslim.

If you remove all this analysis from the picture, it boils down to whether you can accept the other person with other beliefs along with yours. If we assume that Indian Muslims all fall into this category - i.e Muslims who are willing to live among Hindus, then we must automatically assume the opposite in Pakistan - as Muslims who would never live among Hindus.

That brings me to an added complication that partition presented to us: Pakistanis, from the outset claimed that all Muslims remaining behind in India lived under subjugation, in a form of "reverse dhimmitude" where they could not be free. It is my personal opinion that this statement was not 100% false or 100% true. many Muslims of India were happy to live on among Hindus but some (unknown to me) percentage displayed a feeling of affront and grievance that their lives were not going to be as pure and blissful as one that they could lead among Muslims alone. Indian governments went out of their way to mollycoddle Muslims - and since the mollycoddling was aimed at all Muslims rather than only disgruntled ones - it actually led to a feeling of anger among Hindus that Muslims in India would never live as equal citizens and always claim something extra because it is an unhappy fate for Muslims to live among Hindus.

In that sense Pakistan has successfully delayed integration of Muslims in Indian society, both by claiming that Pakistan is a richer and happier place for Muslims and by constantly reminding Indian Muslims that they could not be free and happy among kafirs. So the massacre of Muslims by Muslims in Pakistan, the violence and polio etc are the best possible news for Indians, be they Hindu or Muslim. If Pakistan is to be a great place for Muslims - they've got to become that way and not blabber about it as they did vey effectively up to the mid 1960s - inundated as they were with US aid.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 29 May 2015 19:27

CRamS wrote:On playing kirket with TSP, we have termite filth like this ToiLet reporter who interviewed TSP's PCB chief, who let the b@sarad get away with "politics and kirket should separate" crap without a single follow up, and instead on bha chara nonsense. Why is India so cursed with brain dead scum like that within?

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... mmad-khan/

Dear CRamS ji, Why do you sound so upset with actions of DDM ? They are doing their job as per the policy of newspaper and future avenues of promotion based upon storyline they paddle.
Indians still love Pakis otherwise you wont have a Indian channel dedicated to Paki TV serials and
Bollywood falling head over heels to get Paki artists from HeeraMandi.

Even GoI claims that politics and Business should be kept separate from trade.
Anyways we have Pakis playing in Hockey League and Kabbaddi league.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 29 May 2015 23:50

Hajam Sethi's take on the Exact / Bol Scandal

[quote]The FIA has detained Axact’s CEO and is interrogating him.

Comment: But the 'poor guy' is just a front for the absentee (underground don) owner protected by the Deep State !

[quote] In Axact’s case, unlike the crop of existing media moghuls and business magnates running TV channels, there were many troublingquestions about its owners, source of funds and political objectives

[/b]
Comment: Guess the writer, knows his limit and cannot push the envelope any further than this, unless he wants to be another Sabeen or Hamid Mir!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 May 2015 00:25

Militants kill 19 abducted passengers in Balochistan's Mastung
Balochis Bekrar Hai,Aaja Pakjabi China Terra Intjaarr Hai

QUETTA: At least 19 people were killed and several injured Friday night when unknown militants opened fire at kidnapped passengers in Mastung area of Balochistan, DawnNews reported.
Earlier in the evening, suspected militants had abducted two passenger buses en route Karachi from Pishin.Levies official Sanaullah, while talking to DawnNews, said miscreants stopped two passengers coaches at Khad Kucha area of Mastung. He said the passengers were taken out from the coaches after which armed men opened fire at them.In a statement, Balochistan Home Minister Sarfraz Bugti confirmed that 19 passengers had been killed by the militants.So far, no group has claimed responsibility for the murders.Soon after reports of abduction emerged, police and Frontier Corps officials rushed to the area and there were reports of heavy exchange of fire between security forces and the kidnappers, DawnNews reported.The actual number of abducted passengers has not been confirmed yet. But sources estimate there were more than 20 passengers travelling in the two coaches.The exchange of fire between security forces and militants is ongoing and the death toll from the tragedy is expected to rise, said officials.Meanwhile, DCO Mastung claimed that 15 to 20 militants had abducted around 35 passengers.Five passengers were released by militants, the Levies official said.Traffic remains suspended on the Quetta-Karachi highway as transporters protest against the incident.Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif expressed grief over the loss of precious lives in Mastung. He extended condolences to the bereaved families and directed concerned authorities to apprehend the perpetrators of this heinous crime at the earliest.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 30 May 2015 01:23

^^^ Shiv, if we take terrorism to be a dysfunctional response to modernity (where I leave modernity unspecified but assume we agree on what it is), and we understand Pakistan's role in global terrorism, the conclusion is inescapable, that Pakistan has delayed integration of Muslims into modernizing societies worldwide, to the extent that they have succeeded in exporting the ideology underlying terrorism. That ideology doesn't always result in terrorism, but that ideology is unable to cope with modernity.

If a concrete example is needed of how the Pakistani mentality does this, just the difference between Bangladeshis and Pakistanis immigrants in England would do: http://www.dawn.com/news/1168865

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 30 May 2015 01:33

Jumma Dhamaka comes a day late in Pakistan

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 30 May 2015 02:04

Nice Article by Gen Ata Hasnain on the recent hullaballoo by the Indian english media and assorted INC fools.

http://swarajyamag.com/politics/the-arr ... -parrikar/

I am glad that Mr Parrikar decided to issue the second statement after the reaction from Pakistan to his first. People expected him to be defensive. I am equally glad that the MEA issued no clarification. Let Pakistan feel what it wants to. If it perceives that our intelligence agencies are interfering in its internal security issues so be it. For far too long has India been at the receiving end from Pakistan.