India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

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Amber G.
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Amber G. » 04 Jul 2015 22:22

Krisnaji - I did see entirety of your post the first time. Let me add ..

krisna wrote:One should be able to criticize for what it is with facts.
Blindly supporting is wrong in IMHO.
.

Sirji it is a little more than "criticize".." when you say "threat to peace"

Just not any ordinary kind but..[USA is]

:eek: greatest :eek: threat to world peace

:roll: { I assume by this one means forget about LeT, JuD, Paki scums -- there is a greater threat to world peace .. USA}

As you said, one indeed needs blind faith such as this,] to "Blindly support" such a narrative and it is IMO more than wrong.

As to "facts" (a link some one posted of "conflicts") is any one serious??? Is so irrelevant and absurd - that it ought to be put in the same class as endless "facts" (such as this one) and others listing 61000+ separatist movements/insurgency in India - not to mention programs and genocides committed by India -- produced by similar sources as Saudi Arabia honored Zaid Hamid..)

As you said one should be able to criticize.. so here is mine --- there is NOTHING valid or relevant stuff in trash like that. One should NOT fall for that kind of mischief.

And think about this, REALLY think about this - why would India - see the July 4th remark about "vibrant democracies .. posted by MaMo for just a small example - act like it does towards USA? Brf doesn't need to be mouthpiece of those mischief-mongers who propagate "USA (or India) is greatest threat to world piece type narrative."

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Amber G. » 04 Jul 2015 23:08

Viv S wrote:
krisna wrote:Would love. you to contradict my statements with facts.


Well if we're talking about 'facts', one is constrained to point out that the very first post you made on the matter was factually incorrect -

Since American independence from British in 1776. It has waged war every year since then.

The whole 'one major war every year decade' bit actually applies to US post WWII. In the preceding 160 years, it participated in only half a dozen major conflicts and another half a dozen minor conflicts. Until being hit at Pearl Harbour. under its 'isolationist' foreign policy it was reluctant to involve itself in WWII as well.


Viv S,
The famous physicist Pauli, when presented with silly papers (like Jinn thermodynamics), famously used to say
{it is so absurd that } This is not even wrong


The use of terms like "waged war every year" is more than dishonest, and the list would be utter laughable if not for the disinformation it spreads by innuendos, and half truths.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby TSJones » 05 Jul 2015 06:18

from information clearing house link that assures everybody the the US is the greatest threat to world peace.......



Image

sanjaykumar
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby sanjaykumar » 05 Jul 2015 06:33

Maybe one should look at total body count. U.S. USSR. Britain. China. India. Islamic lands. Pakistan. Viet Cong. Etc. The term war is ambiguous. A body is neater.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Kakkaji » 05 Jul 2015 07:14

My predictions for the Republican ticket in 2016, the top two highest-probability tickets (Pres/ VP):

1. Jeb Bush/ Scott Walker
2. Scott Walker/ Marco Rubio

Manish_P
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Manish_P » 05 Jul 2015 08:09

even our military has been continually engaged in low-level conflict since the early '60s


Ah == onlee

now let's have the list of countries where our military has been engaging in such nice clean fights
Last edited by Manish_P on 05 Jul 2015 08:38, edited 1 time in total.

Manish_P
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Manish_P » 05 Jul 2015 08:22

Amber ji

one means forget about LeT, JuD, Paki scums


no.. we don't forget

We live practically next door to them remember...

And in Paki scums do you count that Major Non-Nato Ally - the Pakistan Military

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby krisna » 05 Jul 2015 09:27

AmberG- please stop the patronising tone.

You have not said anything about what I quoted from an article.you have neither criticised the article or my statements based on that.If you did that I would have been happy and listened to you. I would have reminded myself that I should be do more work.
You never even rebutted it in anyway other than saying it as trash.

Intstead you write trash- tangentially bring some yahoos and extrapolate about me and BRFites posting it. :lol:
According to you, Usa India is goody goody stuff. Everyone should eat laddoo and have hankies in case one cries of emotions. :rotfl:

You never responded when I questioned what will be your response if the artice as written by a non Indian and likley american. You neatly sidetracked it. :P




The overall gist I get from your posts –
1) too much generalisations about brfites(not just me)
2) not to the point -
3) have to be careful in what you post.

My impression is "how can I believe you" you are a MUTU who wants to avoid the negatives of usa.
In real life You may be a good person etc which I have no doubts but your posts creates that impression. :)

I will stop here as it might be downhill from here :(

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby krisna » 05 Jul 2015 09:40

Viv S wrote:
krisna wrote:Would love. you to contradict my statements with facts.


Well if we're talking about 'facts', one is constrained to point out that the very first post you made on the matter was factually incorrect -

Since American independence from British in 1776. It has waged war every year since then.

The whole 'one major war every year decade' bit actually applies to US post WWII. In the preceding 160 years, it participated in only half a dozen major conflicts and another half a dozen minor conflicts. Until being hit at Pearl Harbour. under its 'isolationist' foreign policy it was reluctant to involve itself in WWII as well.


please see the expansion of usa since 1776 usa expansion isnce 1776
there are plenty when I searched google. many are in first page itself.
of course these are not "trash" as per AmberG. :mrgreen: . The websites have .edu , .org etc which I believe are better than .com websites.

About conflicts-- remember USA was ruled by native Indians for centuries. Europenans came and genocided them. No one disputes it. Since 1776 usa had only 13 colonies which gradually expanded through various means which includes wars to expand territory. they defeated the native Indians in many wars in the continent.
It cannot be called domestic conflicts or armed insurgencies etc.

Please see the record of usa before world wars it did go out of the continent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_w ... ted_States
One can argue wikipedia as not reliable- ok but still there are many wars which usa is involved where there is no dipsutes. again there many websites like
http://etc.usf.edu/maps/galleries/us/gr ... rdset1=120
which shows maps of usa .

Please I would like to learn if I am wrong in these information.

krisna
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby krisna » 05 Jul 2015 09:52

AmberG - you seem to be particularly offended by the "usa greatest threat to world peace"
searching google would have helped this.

http://www.wingia.com/en/services/about ... ults/7/33/
Headlines

Despite a year of economic difficulty, almost 50% of people surveyed are more positive about 2014 than they were for 2013;
US, Canada and Australia are the countries where most people would like to live if they could;
US is considered to be the greatest threat to peace in the world, followed by Pakistan and China;
Over a third of those surveyed believe the world would be a better place if there were more female politicians;
Now in its 37th year WIN/Gallup International End of Year Survey finds that since 1989 people in general have a more positive outlook on economic prosperity for the coming year.


65+ countries about 1000 people each contacted (55000 people)
24% said usa is the greates threat. russia china bosnia were in near 50% range who said usa as a threat.
9% said they want to go usa to live followed by canada and australia.

I would have been happy if you had asked me where I got the results etc. then criticsed me or the article etc.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby krisna » 05 Jul 2015 10:09

Viv S wrote:
Well, if we're willing to define a conflict conducted without a military mobilization as a 'war', we'd need a whole new word to describe the kind of conflicts that the European powers engaged in (they even had names like 'Thirty Years War' and 'Hundred Years War').

By the same metric I'd wager UK, France, Spain and Russia have spent a much large proportion of their respective histories engaged in 'war'. In fact, come to think of it, even our military has been continually engaged in low-level conflict since the early '60s.


India cannot be compared at all.

USA expanded thru various means subduing and genociding Indians. It was native american Indians land. Land of usa in 1776 was small which expanded.

european powers at that time were at war due to far flung colonies etc and the riches and exploitation from it. Hence it is correct to say they were also continuosly at war.

India is as old as 5000+ years old-- many wars have been fought inside India also- but crucial difference is they were all indigenous to the land. foreigners came to India adapted and fought but locals were strong and could not be genocided unlike native Americans.
Similar would be native American Indians fighting amongst themselves.

since 1947, India gained political independence with geographical land demarcated(except areas well known to all here)
Indian land was truncated overall. people are the same but different religions etc. yes we do have India pak India china wars etc.
About naxalites tamil nadu north east etc all are within Indian political and geographical boundaries. They cannot be wars in any sense of term.

IMHO


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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Viv S » 05 Jul 2015 12:33

krisna wrote:since 1947, India gained political independence with geographical land demarcated(except areas well known to all here)
Indian land was truncated overall. people are the same but different religions etc. yes we do have India pak India china wars etc.
About naxalites tamil nadu north east etc all are within Indian political and geographical boundaries. They cannot be wars in any sense of term.


This is a moralistic argument and therefore irrelevant (we're not discussing good & evil here). 'Genocide', 'colonialism' etc doesn't change the basic fact that it was a conflict. And if we're using as broad a definition of 'war' as you seem to doing, bringing an equivalency between say.. the Pancho Villa expedition and the Crimean War, well then IA operations in places like Nagaland & Manipur could also well be defined as war. As far as political boundaries were concerned both states existed for centuries as independent kingdoms unbeholden to any empire until the British rolled around. Its people thus owed the Indian govt no 'natural loyalty'.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby nandakumar » 07 Jul 2015 16:01

I am posting a link to an article about US and the state of its politics in that country. It is relevant in the context of this thread only because because Indo-US relations would have taken perhaps a different shape (dare i say, for the better?) if the political structure in that country was different from what it is today. The author makes the point that he wished the American revolution in 1776 had failed and Britain retained political authority for another 100 years. The advantages he sees are:
This July Fourth, I'm celebrating by taking a plane from the US to the United Kingdom. The timing wasn't intentional, but I embrace the symbolism. American independence in 1776 was a monumental mistake. We should be mourning the fact that we left the United Kingdom, not cheering it.

Of course, evaluating the wisdom of the American Revolution means dealing with counterfactuals. As any historian would tell you, this is messy business. We obviously can't be entirely sure how America would have fared if it had stayed in the British Empire longer, perhaps gaining independence a century or so later, along with Canada.

But I'm reasonably confident a world in which the revolution never happened would be better than the one we live in now, for three main reasons: Slavery would've been abolished earlier, American Indians would've faced rampant persecution but not the outright ethnic cleansing Andrew Jackson and other American leaders perpetrated, and America would have a parliamentary system of government that makes policymaking easier and lessens the risk of democratic collapse.
The full article can be accessed here.
http://www.vox.com/2015/7/2/8884885/ame ... on-mistake


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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Cosmo_R » 07 Jul 2015 19:05

^^^"USA expanded thru various means subduing and genociding Indians. "
How about the Brits: India (Bengal famine 1943, the war crimes on a daily basis against any civilian who dared resist, the cultural genocide); Oz (Aborigines) not to mention France and Spain who perpetrated horrors on indigenous populations.

Just compare the current status Oz's Aboriginal population with that of native Americans.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby nandakumar » 07 Jul 2015 20:27

Cosmo_R wrote:^^^"USA expanded thru various means subduing and genociding Indians. "
How about the Brits: India (Bengal famine 1943, the war crimes on a daily basis against any civilian who dared resist, the cultural genocide); Oz (Aborigines) not to mention France and Spain who perpetrated horrors on indigenous populations.

Just compare the current status Oz's Aboriginal population with that of native Americans.

True. You do have a point. The Americans resorted to 'direct action' methods while the British did a death by 'thousand cuts'. But the larger point in the context of Indo-US relations is this. Would Parliamentary democracy in the US served India's interests better?

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby krisna » 08 Jul 2015 08:09

Viv S wrote:
This is a moralistic argument and therefore irrelevant (we're not discussing good & evil here). 'Genocide', 'colonialism' etc doesn't change the basic fact that it was a conflict. And if we're using as broad a definition of 'war' as you seem to doing, bringing an equivalency between say.. the Pancho Villa expedition and the Crimean War, well then IA operations in places like Nagaland & Manipur could also well be defined as war. As far as political boundaries were concerned both states existed for centuries as independent kingdoms unbeholden to any empire until the British rolled around. Its people thus owed the Indian govt no 'natural loyalty'.

Again India cannot be equated at all whatever the argument.
Even today Nagaland and Manipur residents are alive and doing well.The conflicts in these areas could be discussed in a different dhaaga. I am sure many more brfites will join.
Native Americans are dead and gone, lives in museums. All their culture and whatever is left is plagiarised by present Americans.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby TSJones » 08 Jul 2015 09:30

krisna wrote:
Viv S wrote:
This is a moralistic argument and therefore irrelevant (we're not discussing good & evil here). 'Genocide', 'colonialism' etc doesn't change the basic fact that it was a conflict. And if we're using as broad a definition of 'war' as you seem to doing, bringing an equivalency between say.. the Pancho Villa expedition and the Crimean War, well then IA operations in places like Nagaland & Manipur could also well be defined as war. As far as political boundaries were concerned both states existed for centuries as independent kingdoms unbeholden to any empire until the British rolled around. Its people thus owed the Indian govt no 'natural loyalty'.

Again India cannot be equated at all whatever the argument.
Even today Nagaland and Manipur residents are alive and doing well.The conflicts in these areas could be discussed in a different dhaaga. I am sure many more brfites will join.
Native Americans are dead and gone, lives in museums. All their culture and whatever is left is plagiarised by present Americans.


Is that right? I woulda never thunk it.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/aihmcensus1.html

tell us more oh expert of Americana.......impress us mightily.

Peregrine
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India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Peregrine » 08 Jul 2015 15:36

Viv S wrote:This is a moralistic argument and therefore irrelevant (we're not discussing good & evil here). 'Genocide', 'colonialism' etc doesn't change the basic fact that it was a conflict. And if we're using as broad a definition of 'war' as you seem to doing, bringing an equivalency between say.. the Pancho Villa expedition and the Crimean War, well then IA operations in places like Nagaland & Manipur could also well be defined as war. As far as political boundaries were concerned both states existed for centuries as independent kingdoms unbeholden to any empire until the British rolled around. Its people thus owed the Indian govt no 'natural loyalty'.

krisna wrote:Again India cannot be equated at all whatever the argument.
Even today Nagaland and Manipur residents are alive and doing well.The conflicts in these areas could be discussed in a different dhaaga. I am sure many more brfites will join.
Native Americans are dead and gone, lives in museums. All their culture and whatever is left is plagiarised by present Americans.


TSJones wrote:Is that right? I woulda never thunk it.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/aihmcensus1.html

tell us more oh expert of Americana.......impress us mightily.


TSJones Ji :

I'll be darned and I'll be doggone blasted, I'll be goldanged and I'll be I!

From your above Link : http://www.infoplease.com/spot/aihmcensus1.html

The nation’s population of American Indians and Alaska Natives, including those of more than one race. They made up about 2 percent of the total population in 2013. Of this total, about 49 percent were American Indian and Alaska Native only, and about 51 percent were American Indian and Alaska Native in combination with one or more other races.

11.2 million


Methinks that when Ol' Whitey Man set his foot on the Soil of the Americas the American Indians and Alaska Natives Population content was 100%.

Sorry, in this instance, you don't impress me - not at all!

Am I right or am I right?
Cheers Image

Philip
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Philip » 08 Jul 2015 16:39

As an aside,why is Sikorsky scr*wing us in the 18+ naval helo deal,asking for 3 times as much as was quoted earlier.Read the details in the IN td. With this attitude,it is highly unlikely that the 100+ naval helo tender will go to the Yanquis. More likely to a European manufacturer.Even Kamov is being questioned for raising upgrade costs. One contributing factor is the inevitable dealy by the MOD in finalizing matters.We've seen this down the decades.But such huge hikes are impossible to stomach.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Jul 2015 20:23

President BaaaBee Gin-Dal out to Save India's Soul
Republican presidential aspirant Bobby Jindal has sought steps by the United States to take the mantel of global leadership saying even non-aligned nations like India and Vietnam are desperate and hungry for American leadership.

Trashing the foreign policy of the Obama Administration, Jindal, told the Fox News, “We would work not only with our allies, like Japan and South Korea and Taiwan. We'd work with non-aligned countries like India and Vietnam that are desperate and hungry for American leadership."

TSJones
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby TSJones » 08 Jul 2015 21:08

Poor Bobby. Just a little too much Gora for the home crowd. And just too, too ambitious.

svinayak
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby svinayak » 08 Jul 2015 21:17

UlanBatori wrote:President BaaaBee Gin-Dal out to Save India's Soul
Republican presidential aspirant Bobby Jindal has sought steps by the United States to take the mantel of global leadership saying even non-aligned nations like India and Vietnam are desperate and hungry for American leadership.

Trashing the foreign policy of the Obama Administration, Jindal, told the Fox News, “We would work not only with our allies, like Japan and South Korea and Taiwan. We'd work with non-aligned countries like India and Vietnam that are desperate and hungry for American leadership."


All the candidates will be using India for their speeches but do not support any pro India bills
Some of them will be indifferent to India and Indian interest

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby CRamS » 08 Jul 2015 21:27

TSJones wrote:Poor Bobby. Just a little too much Gora for the home crowd. And just too, too ambitious.


No he is not too much gora, he is a wannabe gora.

But his latest India utterance must because of some shameless Indian Amercians still filling his coffers to get some cheap publicity.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby svinayak » 08 Jul 2015 21:30

CRamS wrote:But his latest India utterance must because of some shameless Indian Amercians still filling his coffers to get some cheap publicity.

Past donors are not happy.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby A_Gupta » 08 Jul 2015 23:56


member_27845
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby member_27845 » 09 Jul 2015 07:54

TSJones wrote:Poor Bobby. Just a little too much Gora for the home crowd. And just too, too ambitious.


India / Indians never did form the home crowd for Bobby Jindal : TSJ is just being a smartaleck as usual
His home crowd is white Christian folks in the US

And I remember watching this moron's reply to one of Obomber's State of the Union address - it was so insipid and vapid that it was quite evident this guy would never be Presidential material

Only America's worst enemies would wish this guy gets elected as President of the US

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Philip » 10 Jul 2015 15:50

US Presidential campaign 2016: Bernie Sanders-the socialist Senator going after billionaires and mega-banks - and garnering widespread support

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 79060.html

US Presidential campaign 2016: Bernie Sanders - the socialist Senator going after billionaires and mega-banks - and garnering widespread support.
Mr Sanders is saying things that other Democrat candidates for the White House don't dare – and, what's more, he's catching rival Hillary Clinton fast
David Usborne

Bernie Sanders doesn’t kid around a lot, but having fluffed one of his applause lines on the stump, he allowed himself a chuckle. It wasn’t the line about going after billionaires or getting their money out of politics. Or the one about opposing free trade or switching to an NHS-style single-payer system for healthcare. It was about smashing the mega-banks that got taxpayer bailouts not long ago.

“If that bank is too big to exist, that bank…” Cue the only pause in an hour-long rhetorical thunder-roll delivered without autocue. “I got that wrong. If that bank is too big to fail, that bank is too big to exist.” Mr Sanders, the independent US Senator from Vermont who is seeking the Democrat 2016 nomination, needn’t have worried. No one could possibly have mistaken where he was coming from. The left.

The whole country is starting to find out. After launching what most in the political establishment considered an eccentric and quixotic bid to outrun Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nod in next year’s election, Bernie – his chosen campaign identity – is catching fire. Never mind that he’s 73 years old and identifies himself as a “democratic socialist”. Socialism and American politics don’t usually go together.

The evidence is in the numbers. It was Monday evening and an astonishing crowd of 7,500 had funnelled into the Cross Arena in Portland to see him, a bigger crowd than Ms Clinton got at her first big rally in New York last month or Jeb Bush managed for his official announcement in Miami. It has been like that everywhere. A Sanders rally in Wisconsin last week drew nearly 10,000 people. When 2,500 came to see him in Council Bluffs, Iowa, a few days ago, it set a record in that state for this election cycle.

His polling has seen distinct movement too, notably in the states that will set the pace in the nominating process early next year. A CNN poll in New Hampshire shows Mr Sanders just eight points behind Ms Clinton. In Iowa, he is 19 points behind her, according to a Quinnipiac survey. But in May, the gap was 45 points, so he is catching up fast. The other thing telling us to pay attention is that the Clinton campaign is paying attention.

“We are worried about him, sure. He will be a serious force for the campaign, and I don’t think that will diminish,” Jennifer Palmieri, the Clinton campaign’s communications director, admitted to an interviewer on MSNBC this week. That Senator Sanders is pitching himself as the real progressive choice for Democrats has apparently started to get under Ms Clinton’s skin. Bernie Sanders speaking to a crowd of 7,500 at a campaign rally in Portland, Maine Bernie Sanders speaking to a crowd of 7,500 at a campaign rally in Portland, Maine

“I take a backseat to no one when you look at my record in standing up and fighting for progressive values,” she declared at a rally in Hanover, New Hampshire, last weekend. Asked later about Mr Sanders’ apparent surge, she offered: “We each run our own campaigns and I always knew it would be competitive. I want to have free debate in the primary and caucuses around the country.”

Read more: • Voldemort polls better than many Republican candidates
• Sanders officially joins Hillary as her only Democratic competition
• Hillary Clinton reveals four key goals of her presidential campaign
• Candidate Ted Cruz apologises for mean joke about Joe Biden

Senator Sanders, rumpled and stern, faces huge hurdles. He vows to refuse billionaire donations, a stand that delighted the crowd here, but which will put him at a disadvantage in a race where money obviously does matter. Last week his campaign said it had raised $15m (£9.7m) since April through small donations averaging $35 from about 250,000 people – a decent number that also speaks to the grassroots groundswell he is creating. But Ms Clinton raised a handier $45m.

And he lacks the caution of most politicians, itself central to his appeal. “I think he just speaks from the heart,” noted Alida Duncan, 32, who had driven to Portland from Vermont where she has known the Senator “all my life”. To his fans, Bernie is the genuine article, without the artifice of Ms Clinton.

As he scrolled through the issues that ignite him – all under the theme of restoring the balance between the very rich and everyone else – Mr Sanders hailed his own bluntness. “Let me not equivocate, let me be as clear as I can be, because we are going to send a message to the billionaire class and that message is: ‘You can’t have it all!’” he blasted. “You can’t get huge tax breaks, when children in America go hungry… Your greed has got to end and we are going to end it for you!”

He promised that as president his first pick to join the Supreme Court would first have to undertake publicly to undo Citizens United, the Court’s 2010 ruling that essentially lifted the last limits on the very rich using their fortunes to assist candidates they like. In this, he singled out the industrialists David and Charles Koch, who reportedly plan to spend as much as $1bn supporting their favoured Republican runners. (For the Kochs and their allies a Sanders presidency would seem akin to Earth exploding.)

“What you are looking at is not called democracy. It is called oligarchy and we are going to end that,” he declared here, sending the crowd once more into a foot-stamping chorus of “Bernie! Bernie”. He went on: “The United States and our government are not for sale!”

Unlikely as his candidacy sounds, this could be Mr Sanders’ moment, even if at the end of the day it’s limited to pulling Ms Clinton leftwards. It would be a happy culmination of a decades-long political career that began when as a young man he left his native Brooklyn for Vermont, where in 1971 he joined the Liberty Union Party, a movement born out of the anti-war fervour of those years. It was in Vermont, a liberal bastion still today, that in 1981 he was elected Mayor of Burlington, its biggest city, on a leftist platform, and thereafter to the US Congress in 1990 and the US Senate in 2006.

It is his moment because liberals in the Democratic Party are sceptical of the progressive bona fides of Ms Clinton, who has padded her own pockets with exorbitant speaker’s fees and played footsie with big donors and Wall Street. And because, as he told the overflow crowd here, the income and wealth gap in America is set to become one of the most debated issues of the coming campaign.

It is no surprise his rallies are packed, he declared. “The answer, I think, is pretty obvious. From Maine to California… the American people understand that establishment politics and establishment economics are not working for the middle class.”

He went on: “They understand that the greed of Wall Street and the greed of corporate America is destroying the great middle class of this country and people are saying from coast to coast, ‘You can’t keep getting away with that’. And people understand that it is not acceptable that a handful of billionaires are now controlling our political process.”

It is hardly clear whether Mr Sanders, with his unapologetically leftist pitch, can stop the Clinton train, let alone persuade the whole country to put him in the White House. But some here are starting to dream. “At first I thought he just wanted to influence the conversation,” offered Ms Duncan, whose drive from Vermont had taken four hours. “But with these big crowds, I think he might really make it.”

Radical wish list: Sanders’ pledges
•Raise taxes on the rich and on corporations, closing all loopholes.
•Expand Obamacare into a European-style, single-payer system, where every American would qualify for Medicare, currently only available for the over-65s.
•Introduce obligatory paid sick and holiday leave, including 12 weeks paid maternity/paternity leave.
•Offer free tuition in public colleges and universities, funded by “speculation tax”, essentially a Wall Street levy.
•Bring back public funding for elections, like in Britain.
•Put a break on all future free trade deals.
•Introduce a federal minimum wage of $15 an hour and end the pay gap between men and women.

Philip
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Philip » 10 Jul 2015 16:51

From Greece to the US pres. election,the gap between the billionaire class and beggar class is becoming the major issue. There is a limit as to how much the underpriviliged can "stomach",being repeatedly asked to "tighten their belts". Now the Pope himself is throwing his moral authority to denounce crony capitalism and the discrimination for aeons against the indigenous "Indians" of the Americas.

Unbridled capitalism is the 'dung of the devil', says Pope Francis

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... pe-francis
Unbridled capitalism is the 'dung of the devil', says Pope Francis

The pontiff condemns the impoverishment of developing countries by the world economic order and apologised for the church’s treatment of native Americans

Pope Francis makes his speech in Santa Cruz, Bolivia, where he called for the poor to have the “sacred rights” of labor, lodging and land.

Reuters
Friday 10 July 2015

Pope Francis has urged the downtrodden to change the world economic order, denouncing a “new colonialism” by agencies that impose austerity programs and calling for the poor to have the “sacred rights” of labor, lodging and land.

In one of the longest, most passionate and sweeping speeches of his pontificate, the Argentine-born pope used his visit to Bolivia to ask forgiveness for the sins committed by the Roman Catholic church in its treatment of native Americans during what he called the “so-called conquest of America”.

The pontiff also demanded an immediate end to what he called the “genocide” of Christians taking place in the Middle East and beyond, describing it as a third world war.

“Today we are dismayed to see how in the Middle East and elsewhere in the world many of our brothers and sisters are persecuted, tortured and killed for their faith in Jesus,” Pope Francis said.

“In this third world war, waged piecemeal, which we are now experiencing, a form of genocide is taking place, and it must end.”

Pope's South American tour recalls a divided church – and a dirty war

Quoting a fourth century bishop, he called the unfettered pursuit of money “the dung of the devil”, and said poor countries should not be reduced to being providers of raw material and cheap labour for developed countries.

Repeating some of the themes of his landmark encyclical Laudato Si on the environment last month, Francis said time was running out to save the planet from perhaps irreversible harm to the ecosystem.

Pope Francis shakes hands with a mining worker’s leader watched by Bolivia’s president Evo Morales, right, in Santa Cruz, Bolivia. Photograph: Rodrigo Abd/AP

Francis made the address in the city of Santa Cruz to participants of the second world meeting of popular movements, an international body that brings together organisations of people on the margins of society, including the poor, the unemployed and peasants who have lost their land. The Vatican hosted the first meeting last year.

He said he supported their efforts to obtain “so elementary and undeniably necessary a right as that of the three “Ls”: land, lodging and labour”.

His speech was preceded by lengthy remarks from the left-wing Bolivian president Evo Morales, who wore a jacket adorned with the face of Argentine revolutionary Ernesto “Che” Guevara. He was executed in Bolivia in 1967 by CIA-backed Bolivian troops.

Nuns on their way to Pope Francis’ mass in Santa Cruz on Thursday. Photograph: Mario Tama/Getty Images

“Let us not be afraid to say it: we want change, real change, structural change,” the pope said, decrying a system that “has imposed the mentality of profit at any price, with no concern for social exclusion or the destruction of nature”.

“This system is by now intolerable: farm workers find it intolerable, labourers find it intolerable, communities find it intolerable, peoples find it intolerable. The earth itself – our sister, Mother Earth, as Saint Francis would say – also finds it intolerable,” he said in an hour-long speech that was interrupted by applause and cheering dozens of times.

Since his election in 2013, the first pope from Latin America has often spoken out in defence of the poor and against unbridled capitalism but the speech in Santa Cruz was the most comprehensive to date on the issues he has championed.

Francis’ previous attacks on capitalism have prompted stiff criticism from politicians and commentators in the United States, where he is due to visit in September.

The pontiff appeared to take a swipe at international monetary organisations such as the IMF and the development aid policies by some developed countries.

“No actual or established power has the right to deprive peoples of the full exercise of their sovereignty. Whenever they do so, we see the rise of new forms of colonialism which seriously prejudice the possibility of peace and justice,” he said.

“The new colonialism takes on different faces. At times it appears as the anonymous influence of mammon: corporations, loan agencies, certain ‘free trade’ treaties, and the imposition of measures of ‘austerity’ which always tighten the belt of workers and the poor,” he said.

Last week, Francis called on European authorities to keep human dignity at the centre of debate for a solution to the economic crisis in Greece.

He defended labor unions and praised poor people who had formed cooperatives to create jobs where previously “there were only crumbs of an idolatrous economy”.

In one of the sections on colonialism, he said: “I say this to you with regret: many grave sins were committed against the native peoples of America in the name of God.”

Conservatives' collective tantrum over the pope has been a wonder to behold

He added: “I humbly ask forgiveness, not only for the offences of the church herself, but also for crimes committed against the native peoples during the so-called conquest of America.

“There was sin and an abundant amount of it.”

The audience gave Francis a standing ovation when he put on a yellow miner’s hat that was given to him at the end of his speech.

The pope made his speech at the end of his first full day in Bolivia, where he arrived on Wednesday. On Thursday morning he said a mass for hundreds of thousands of people and said that everyone had a moral duty to help the poor, and that those with means could not wish they would just “go away”.

Francis praised Bolivia’s social reforms to spread wealth under Morales. On Friday, he will visit Bolivia’s notoriously violent Palmasola prison.

The pope looked bemused on Wednesday night when Morales handed him one of the more unusual gifts he has received: a sculpted wooden hammer and sickle – the symbol of communism – with a figure of a crucified Christ resting on the hammer.
Francis leaves on Friday for Paraguay, the last stop on his “homecoming” trip

JE Menon
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby JE Menon » 10 Jul 2015 16:54

^^Hmmm... Devilshyte

Francis must have missed the briefing on Vatican finances.

Tuvaluan
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Tuvaluan » 12 Jul 2015 20:23

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/inside-track-6/

US whining about the well-deserved full-body cavity search in all of ford foundations orifices. FF must be pretty important in creating mayhem if the US state dept. feels so strongly about it.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby A_Gupta » 14 Jul 2015 01:49

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 065_1.html
The first India-US Strategic and Commercial Dialogue would be held here in September, a top American diplomat announced today while highlighting that it would give the two countries a new platform to build on past results and work towards future progress.

From the US side, the dialogue, the announcement for which was made in New Delhi in January during the India visit of US President Barack Obama, would be co-chaired by Secretary of State John Kerry and the Commerce Secretary Penny Pritzker.

The Indian delegation to the first of its kind dialogue, the dates for which have not been announced yet, would be led by External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj and Commerce Minister Nirmala Sitharaman.

ramana
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ramana » 14 Jul 2015 01:52

TSJ, You are commenting on Bobby Jindal because of his Indian origins and not his politics.
I suggest you give it up.
Thanks, ramana

TSJones
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby TSJones » 14 Jul 2015 08:32

ramana wrote:TSJ, You are commenting on Bobby Jindal because of his Indian origins and not his politics.
I suggest you give it up.
Thanks, ramana


Ramana, I don't have any problems with his India heritage. Doesn't matter to me in the slightest. I was pointing out that others on this forum seem to have problems with it because of his politics and his personal choice of Christianity and diverting from his parents Hindu heritage. the fact that he is a conservative politician shouldn't make any difference about his choice of a first name or religion. And all of that has been considered fair game by others on this forum. I don't vote conservative but I feel sorry for the guy for having to put up with comments about his personal choices.

Pulikeshi
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Pulikeshi » 14 Jul 2015 09:26

^^^TSJ - even a president's sexual exploits are the public's business today - so why to spare Bobby Jindal onlee?
A politicians religious belief, ethnicity, nanny, tax returns, teenage experiments with chemicals... nothing spared.
If his Christianity is necessary to be successful in the US, then his rejection of his Hindu heritage is fair game
for those that are still Hindu onlee. The minute he became a politician (a public figure) he made himself fair game -
a'int no fairness to it!

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby nachiket » 14 Jul 2015 09:40

I remember Jindal once saying that the GOP has to stop being the stupid party. Then after the recent marriage equality decision he made statements about getting rid of the courts etc., proving he is no different than the other EJ whackjobs that the GOP is filled with.

JE Menon
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby JE Menon » 14 Jul 2015 10:21

He probably has to stop being the stupid politician.

Sagar G
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Sagar G » 14 Jul 2015 19:40

TSJones wrote:Poor Bobby. Just a little too much Gora for the home crowd, and not enough for the gora crowd. And just too, too ambitious.


Therein lies the irony of being a coconut :rotfl:

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby TSJones » 14 Jul 2015 20:09

^^^^^

"coconut" is considered to be a racial slur in many parts of the world.


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