India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 09 Oct 2015 09:12

Gus: the sect is aghOri. Agora is a market place.

habal · Post by **habal** » 09 Oct 2015 09:22

this is as good a time as any to put enormous pressure on USA to give up David Coleman Headley, Tahawwur Rana or else raise a resolution at UN over USA sponsoring and harboring terrorists and guess what .. the world will believe us.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 09 Oct 2015 09:45

Gus wrote: Hypatia is depicted in the movie 'agora' (unrelated to our agora/agori). well acted by rachel weisz.

A book very very well worth reading in this context is "The Passion of the Greeks: Christianity and the Rape of the Hellenes" by Evanggelos Vallianatos. There's incredible detail and heartfelt sorrow by the author in there. Parts of it are sickeningly familiar...

I think it should be compulsory school reading in India - as it contains very meaningful lessons for us as a civilizational state.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 09 Oct 2015 15:06

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/pak-probably-most-dangerous-country-for-world-excia-official/article7742884.ece

Pakistan is probably the most dangerous country for the world as it is ripe with the threats of terrorism, a failing economy and the fastest growing nuclear arsenal, a retired CIA official has said.

“While Pakistan is not the most dangerous country in the world, it is probably the most dangerous country for the world, and as such, a serious case for close and continued U.S. engagement with Pakistan can be made,” Kevin Hulbert, a former top intelligence officer who retired in June 2014, wrote in an op-ed in The Cipher Brief.

“As a country ripe with the triple threat of terrorism, a failing economy, and the fastest growing nuclear arsenal, Pakistan has the potential to create more nightmare scenarios for U.S. policymakers than any other country,” said Mr. Hulbert, who previously served multiple overseas tours as CIA Chief of Station and Deputy Chief of Station.

Like it or not, Pakistan is similar to a bank or company considered too big to let fail because of the ripple effect it might cause across the entire economy.

The spectre of the sixth largest country in the world being a failed state is a hypothetical catastrophe that would unleash a world of unintended consequences, he said.

“Rather than risk it, and as much as we might like to move on, we really should increase the level of engagement with Pakistan, not decrease it,” he recommended.

Mr. Hulbert said many of the trend lines in Pakistan now seem to be moving in the wrong direction.

For years, Pakistan felt justified in its use of jihadist militias to attack India in a war of attrition.

It pursued a perverse double-dealing game where they supported ‘good’ radical Muslim extremists that helped them in their proxy war against India, while at the same time trying to hold the line against the ‘bad’ radical Muslim extremist elements who were focused on bringing down the Pakistani state, he observed.

A large percentage of the Pakistan population does not view jihadi groups, including the Taliban and other militant religious groups, as dangerous elements, but rather as good soldiers of Islam comprised of men performing their religious duty, he said.

“The fight against al-Qaeda in Pakistan was largely seen as a U.S. fight, not a Pakistan fight, and Pakistan’s unwillingness to make the hard choices required to confront the growing menace of radical extremism, created a monster,” the former CIA official said.

Today, Pakistan finds itself in a very complicated security situation where there is little differentiation among radical groups, he noted.

Terrorist groups, such as Lashkar-e-Taiba, are suddenly allied with al-Qaeda, while Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, the Pakistan Taliban, the Afghan Taliban, and other assorted miscreants and non-state actors are intent on bringing down the elected government of Pakistan.

While the Pakistan government dithered, the militancy in the country took firm hold, he said.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 09 Oct 2015 15:57

Gus wrote:
Dipanker wrote:Noting to do with "rah rah usa usa.. ", it's about being objective. If you start from a biased perspective the only person you end up fooling is yourself, nobody else.
are you objectively comparing the enforcement, incarceration and length of sentencing of whites V blacks ?
first do that and then you can pass statements like "do the crime, do the time"
clearly crime is being subjectively treated in america. not objective.

argue the points above, instead of subjective comments about who's biased or fooled.

The Atlantic October 2015 has devoted most of the latest issue to this very subject. Worth reading, for both quantitative and subjective discussions. No endorsement implied: it's just that I got a free copy in a meeting where there was no power outlet nearby and I had forgotten the password so I couldn't browse the 'Net.

Headline:

The Black Family in the Age of Mass Incarceration

American politicians are now eager to disown a failed criminal-justice system that’s left the U.S. with the largest incarcerated population in the world. But they've failed to reckon with history. Fifty years after Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s report “The Negro Family” tragically helped create this system, it's time to reclaim his original intent.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 09 Oct 2015 16:10

^^^ Is it bracelet or is it bangles?

(Nothing wrong with bangles, but being called "bangle-wearers" upsets Pakistani manhood.)

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 09 Oct 2015 16:28

SSridhar wrote: Ashraf Ghani is a US selection. He danced to Pakistani Army tunes. The US allowed China & Pakistan to take centrestage in Afghanistan. The US was complicit in keeping India out of the Round Table Conf. in London in c. 2010 and others following that.

Because we do not want to engage in providing tangible output on the ground. We want to sit aside watch while everyone melee and then sneak and claim a piece of pie.

Building hospital and roads can only earn brownie points but we cannot claim stake.

For those against pakistan it is a warmongering state who punches above its weight. But for years pakis for the west are the people who take risk, adventurous and can bear wounds. Taking on a neighbour like India every now and then is not a small thing. Yes, they many not become rich and prosperous but they can do the work on ground for them. It is a role pakistan has assumed in this world ecosystem. And risk has certain rewards. Because China is on paki side they will reap the benefits too.

I am not advocating to become american proxy. But if we want to become relvevant in geopolitics then we need to hold cards that can change the game. Like openly support independent balochistan. Start hosting conferences berween afghan pashto sindhi and baloch on the border issues will force the west to notice our presence.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 09 Oct 2015 16:33

^^^Very good assessment SSridharji. Thank you!

This means Ghani is feeling the heat in Kabul and risks label as the Second Shah Shuja if he does not turn more anti paki . Thumbs up to the Panjshiris and Karzai for playing a great game.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 09 Oct 2015 18:33

UlanBatori wrote: The Atlantic October 2015 has devoted most of the latest issue to this very subject. Worth reading, for both quantitative and subjective discussions. No endorsement implied: it's just that I got a free copy in a meeting where there was no power outlet nearby and I had forgotten the password so I couldn't browse the 'Net.

Headline:

The Black Family in the Age of Mass Incarceration

American politicians are now eager to disown a failed criminal-justice system that’s left the U.S. with the largest incarcerated population in the world. But they've failed to reckon with history. Fifty years after Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s report “The Negro Family” tragically helped create this system, it's time to reclaim his original intent.

Thanks O Yak-herder-in-chief

Dipanker, pl read that before any reply. Thanks.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 09 Oct 2015 18:59

svenkat, being a CIA toadie the guy is well-versed in how to use propaganda to secure their benefits and mask their real intent. What I mean is the following claim:

Like it or not, Pakistan is similar to a bank or company considered too big to let fail because of the ripple effect it might cause across the entire economy.

The spectre of the sixth largest country in the world being a failed state is a hypothetical catastrophe that would unleash a world of unintended consequences, he said.

So whom is this guy kidding? If TSP implodes as it should, the world won't even feel a pin prick given how much TSP contributes to world economy. Furthermore, if US is really serious about how dangerous TSP is, a weeks' worth of sustained bombing of Rawalpindi, will bury the TSP threat forever. In fact, contrary to his claims, the world will be much much more safer and peaceful without a dangerous TSP. And the biggest beneficiary of such a development will of course be INDIA. Now there is the rub. So, like a real CIA spooke, he masks the real intentions of why US must be in cahoots with TSP: BIG BAAD INDIA. Instead of stating that, he sets up a false premise, and that repeated ad nauseum will become Gospel truth that even Indian elites will pick and repeat like parrots.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 09 Oct 2015 21:49

pandyan wrote:until there is a direct road connectivity between India-Afg, we should stay put and wait and watch.Iran port would enable some direct linkage.

This is the job Afghan security and US special forces. They need to take over GB area and then "lease" to India to show the sincerity in partnership and goodwill so India can intervene with 900% full capability to maintain the peace in the region.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Oct 2015 05:56

In the massan race, assuming Trump vs Clinton finale.. a slight Donald Duck slip is enough for Clinton to trump him down!
/JMT

both are crazy though

Used the wrong finger?
Not using the 'right' hand?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Oct 2015 20:02

6 flip flops from Hillary ‘Real Person’ Clinton

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 14 Oct 2015 11:13

India, US totalization agreement on the right track

India and the US were able to make “good progress” in negotiating the long-pending totalisation agreement that has emerged as a major hurdle for Indian companies seeking to invest and operation in America.

It seems the matter was discussed at length during the India-US Strategic and Commercial Dialogue that took place in the US last month, preceding Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit there.

“On a totalisation agreement, we had a second round of talks between both the governments. The last discussion was held in summer. We look forward to continue these discussions. I think the gaps in understanding each other’s systems are narrowing, which is good,” US Ambassador to India Richard Verma said here on Tuesday.

Indian workers account for almost 50 per cent of employment-based US green cards and 40-50 per cent of the H1-B and L-1 professional visas. These workers make yearly contributions of about $2 billion towards US’ social security system.

However, according to the US’ norms, these workers need to complete 10 years for being eligible to enjoy the benefits of this contribution. As a result, workers going there for work for a short period are not able to repatriate their contributions.

“We have certain statutory requirements that we have to meet, we have to better understand India’s coverage scheme for social security and I think when people sit across the table and share their detailed information it’s helpful and I think we made good progress on the subject of totalisation,” Verma added, while launching the US government’s Select USA initiative aimed at facilitating Indian investments to the US. India, on its part, also seems to be bullish that the negotiations for a totalisation agreement were also “progressing satisfactorily”. However, it will not be anytime soon that the agreement will be sealed due to wide gaps in the ongoing talks, a senior official told Business Standard .

So far, only five rounds of talks have taken place ever since the talks started in 2010.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 14 Oct 2015 19:22

There as a delightful report in the media about "Jaws",aka Robin Raphael,Pakistan's "Mata Hari" in Foggy Bottom. Jaws is the wife of the former US ambassador to Pak,who joined Gen. Zia on his ascent or descent into the next world to meet his maker on that infamous "mango flight",the C-130 Hercules which took them to their doom. At that time the smart money was on the CIA being responsible,as the good Gen. wasn't toeing the Yanqui line,but was radicalising the Paki faithful and those fighting in Afghanistan, who were terribly anti-US like one OBL.

Anyway,the grieving widow,took it upon herself to be the Paki "point-woman" in the US ,who for two decades we are told ,fed the US such a load of Paki bull,and thrashed India's reputation ad nauseum,that ensured billions upon billions of milware and aid to flow into the pockets of the Paki military,the ISI,their armed forces,and a meager trickle to the public at large.However,Jaws came a cropper when she was investigated for passing on sensitive,classified info to her bosom chums in Pak. Jaws was absolutely guilty of treason,but has been let off the hook becayse to prosecute Jaws would mean prosecuting another fair lady by name Hillary C,whose e-mails were being scrutinised by an army of anti-Hillary investigators. Hillary is getting off the hook because she is the front runner to win the Democratic nomination and that if she was to be prosecuted then America's celebrated Gen.,Gen Petr-Ars* would go to jail for sharing top secret military secrets with his mistress!

Look how backscratching works and rules are bent in the great US of A. The Pakis now have to find another willing rent-boy or wh*re to do their dirty work in Washington.Armed with billions of drug money from their control of the heroin trade in Afghanistan,the ISI will find a queue lining up for its 30 pieces of silver.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Oct 2015 19:45

>> Indian workers account for almost 50 per cent of employment-based US green cards and 40-50 per cent of the H1-B and L-1 professional visas. These workers make yearly contributions of about $2 billion towards US’ social security system.

they can understand and finish this in 3 months if they had any intent. but who wants to lose free money. the H1 and L1 fees have also been jacked up to create another steady revenue stream.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 14 Oct 2015 20:07

Now what happens if somebody has to leave after 7 or heck even 9 years if the U.S. economy goes south and there are no jobs to be found? If anybody is out of a job after a grace period they go out of status and have to return home. Do they get to repatriate their SS contributions?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Oct 2015 22:17

Looks Like Hillary Clinton won the debate and most likely will get elected for two reasons: Republicans are collapsing and its time for US to elect a woman leader.

If this is the reality one statement at the end of the debate as to what are the future threats facing US? She replied nuclear proliferation. Others said Muddle East and China.

If she becomes President expect three/four letter treaties to be at the forefront of her agenda.

pravula · Post by **pravula** » 14 Oct 2015 22:56

vayu tuvan wrote:Now what happens if somebody has to leave after 7 or heck even 9 years if the U.S. economy goes south and there are no jobs to be found? If anybody is out of a job after a grace period they go out of status and have to return home. Do they get to repatriate their SS contributions?

AFAIK, it depends on which country's citizen you are when you apply. If India had SS, then no. Otherwise, normal SS rules apply. You need to put in some amount of credits before you become eligible.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 Oct 2015 02:09

body language says it is SDRE vs TFTA

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 15 Oct 2015 06:00

ramana wrote:Looks Like Hillary Clinton won the debate and most likely will get elected for two reasons: Republicans are collapsing and its time for US to elect a woman leader.

Her laugh/guffaw/or whatever one calls it after Sen. Sanders endorsed her (in my in-the-box thinking) is curtains for Sen. Sanders. Is he angling for a VP nomination on HC's ticket? Of course, she can always talk to others and side track Sen Sanders. He is too old to have another go at the top job (of the US).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Oct 2015 07:00

>>Do they get to repatriate their SS contributions?

No. indians (incl me) have already lost billions due to this despite the fact we have PPF and PF for ages.

as I said, nobody likes to let go of free money. they have no intention of ever signing this agreement.

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 15 Oct 2015 07:08

SS contributions are available after contributing for 40 credits. 1 calendar quarter = 1 credit. Hence 40 credits means 10 years of contribution. After this you will be eligible to receive SS benefits on reaching retirement age.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 15 Oct 2015 08:02

U.S. International Social Security Agreements
IRS: Totalization Agreements

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 15 Oct 2015 08:37

As things stand now, after 40 credits, you can draw benefits after retirement , wherever you are in the world.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Oct 2015 08:47

most H1s (say those who go through services cos) do not file for gc to stick around counting till 40. they return at some point on end of contract or onsite assignment.
they are baked in to lose all their contributions.

I think L1 also has same issue. services cos use a lot of L1 also.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 15 Oct 2015 11:05

^^

Considering effective federal income tax in India is much higher than in the USA, its not a loss. Of whatever would have been paid to the Indian government, perhaps 50% is paid to social security.

member_28985 · Post by **member_28985** » 15 Oct 2015 21:10

President Obama announcing extension of US troops stay in Afghanistan : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlIfiiIBZ18&t=31m25s

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 15 Oct 2015 22:06

Social Security is sort of a pension for old age. Which means that if you work for 10 years (at a minimum wage) and filed your income Tax report (really made money) then once you retire at the age of 66 you will start receiving the Social Security benefits (based on how much you contributed).

A typical person working in an IT field see these in his/her check
1. Federal Tax.
2. State Tax.
3. Local Tax (Township Tax, School Tax,etc).
4. Social Security (FICA).
5. Medicare.
6. 401 contributions (also retirement plan from where you can withdraw once 66). (You must be vested for some time to start withdrawing when you are 66., it typically means if you contributed n number of amount your company will match n% to that if you stay with the company for the vested time then you have all the money, otherwise company takes their money and gives you your pre-tax money)
7. Medical/Dental/Eye insurance (single around $300 family around $700+ per month you children can be under your medical insurance till they are 25).
8. Optional Life insurance (any amount upto $50.)

This is just what's on your monthly/weekly/bi-weekly paycheck.

Then every time you buy something/sell something you pay tax (depends on the state anywhere from 5-9% of the transaction amount).
You pay property tax (monthly) on your house (part of mortgage depends upon where you live)
You pay inheritance tax when you inherit some estate of your deceased relative.

and so forth!

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 15 Oct 2015 22:09

So H1s and L1s at the age of 66 should get their SS and 401 contributions as per US law.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 15 Oct 2015 23:55

Only if they contributed for 40 quarters. Moreover one needs PR for claiming SS benefits. Taxesin and themselves are not as unfair as FICA. At least they are using the infra an services provided by Fed, State, County, and local govts. May be it is just "cost of doing business/working" for them.

Abhay_S · Post by **Abhay_S** » 16 Oct 2015 00:13

SBajwa wrote:So H1s and L1s at the age of 66 should get their SS and 401 contributions as per US law.

401 k has nothing to do with VISA status.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 16 Oct 2015 03:06

I am talking about FICA. That money is essentially gone into (non)lockbox.or whatever term the Congress is going to come up with. Money in that lockbox will do a Houdini in front of our eyes.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 16 Oct 2015 12:04

Most of you hoping to get social security are going to be in for a big surprise, when US reneges on its own promises. Are you aware the underfunding of most social security schemes, pension schemes in most US states. Except for Washington, most SS and P funds are in deficit. Good luck in getting anything at the end.

kit · Post by **kit** » 16 Oct 2015 15:28

http://www.janes.com/article/55303/us-t ... outh-korea
Quite similar to that very special india cell in pentagon for military transfers .. did anyone think india had a special status ..its all money baby !

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 16 Oct 2015 20:43

^^ no one said that and I hope the us weapon purchase thing doesn't become a habit. Although dealing with Russia over everything isn't ideal either, it didn't had all the western hypocrisy and baggage. Relying on western weapon systems is only going to tighten the noose around our neck. Just keep it to peripheral systems and end the deal ASAP.

Westerners just can't mind their own business and it's quite risky to allow such entities to have a free reign in our internal and external affairs. There was some wiki leak document from 2006 that talked about subverting india by becoming it's largest arms selling partner. I'll dig it out and post here when I get some time

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 23 Oct 2015 00:19

Months and months after Indian diplomat Devayani Khobragade was strip-searched by US Marshals, a dailykos liberal says that: "Strip Searches Are Sexual Assault".
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/2 ... al-Assault

arun · Post by **arun** » 23 Oct 2015 22:18

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

Austin wrote:US most relevant 3rd party intervention to Kashmir issue: Pakistan

Chidanand Rajghatta reports that the US has turned down the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s plea for intervening in India-Pakistan affairs rather promptly in a press briefing specifically for correspondents of India-based or India-centric media on the topic of the Islamic Republic’ Prime Minister's visit to the US:

Won't interfere, sort out issues with India bilaterally: US to Pakistan

arun · Post by **arun** » 24 Oct 2015 06:30

^^^ Till date there seems to be no transcript of the press briefing specifically for correspondents of India-based or India-centric media on the topic of the Islamic Republic’ Prime Minister's visit to the US.

A benign omission on the part of the US or a sly attempt to lay the ground work for denying what was said in the future?

I do hope our Ministry of External affairs will seek clarification from the US and thereafter hold a media briefing.

arun · Post by **arun** » 24 Oct 2015 06:32

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

Transcript of our Ministry of External Affairs comment on the US visit of the Prime Minister of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Questions on US supply of F-16’s, US funding of Diamer Bhasha dam construction on territory of India occupied by the Islamic Republic, Islamic Republic sponsored Mohammadden Terrorism, and threat of Nuclear weapons deployed by the Islamic Republic etc:

Transcript of Media Briefing by Official Spokesperson (October 23, 2015)