India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

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shiv
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby shiv » 06 Dec 2015 10:15

For old codgers like me - 'San Bernadino' in happier days..that was the America we dreamed of while smoking pot. What have you done to yourself?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAAqAho_BsU

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ramana » 06 Dec 2015 10:28

BRF used to predict Al Britiania ruled from Londonistan.

Meanwhile US has already become Dar-ul-Islam with its own Caliph.

Paki razakars raid kafirs and dhimmis with impunity.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby member_22733 » 06 Dec 2015 10:49

shiv wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:^^^ shiv! now you may understand why Americans and Pakistanis get along so well, they both shut out anything that may collide with their ideology. Because research on gun deaths might bring up inconvenient facts, that research is shutdown. Because some NASA satellites might make the evidence for climate change incontrovertible, they are trying to shutdown that program. Because liberals are committed to the idea that the truth about Islam will lead to persecution of a minority, they stubbornly stick to the "religion of peace", "terrorism has no religion". Etc, etc. it is only us SDREs that on our better days, go with Satyameva Jayate, or Veritas Liberabit.

Ah thanks! I had noticed the connection but you have given a credible explanation for it. I mean I understood that both Pakistan and the US doggedly stick to certain self declarations about themselves - did not realize the underlying mechanism, at least for the US. You have turned on a light in my mind.


Many moons ago, I had posted this and I completely forgot about it, thanks for reminding me :) :

viewtopic.php?p=1695137#p1695137

The "cool" were always American, the "uncool" were unAmerican. That in short is what Americanism is. It externalizes failure. We Americans do not fail, if we fail we are not American. This has an interesting parallel to the situation in our retarded neighbors to the west, Bakistan where Muslims dont kill Muslims... only non Muslims do. Muslim failure is not a failure of Islam, it’s a failure of those people who do not follow Islam properly and are thus not Muslim. Muslims following Islam will not fail.

This externalizing of failure helps Americans to absorb insane amount of injustices mounted on them. That senator did something that is not cool, so they externalized his action and laughed it off. They call him retarded etc. In India, if something like this happens, we internalize it, generalize it and we shame ourselves. The way we view "Indianism" is exactly opposite of how Americans look at "Americanism". We internalize our failure and shame ourselves into believing we are worthless. They exteranlize it and say, its unAmerican and maintain their self-esteem, while trying to correct what they perceive as wrong. I don’t know what is the right way, because the American way of dealing with failure is disastrous. I outline a couple of them below.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby shiv » 06 Dec 2015 10:53

LokeshC wrote:
Many moons ago, I had posted this and I completely forgot about it, thanks for reminding me :) :

viewtopic.php?p=1695137#p1695137

The "cool" were always American, the "uncool" were unAmerican. That in short is what Americanism is. It externalizes failure. We Americans do not fail, if we fail we are not American. This has an interesting parallel to the situation in our retarded neighbors to the west, Bakistan where Muslims dont kill Muslims... only non Muslims do. Muslim failure is not a failure of Islam, it’s a failure of those people who do not follow Islam properly and are thus not Muslim. Muslims following Islam will not fail.

This externalizing of failure helps Americans to absorb insane amount of injustices mounted on them. That senator did something that is not cool, so they externalized his action and laughed it off. They call him retarded etc. In India, if something like this happens, we internalize it, generalize it and we shame ourselves. The way we view "Indianism" is exactly opposite of how Americans look at "Americanism". We internalize our failure and shame ourselves into believing we are worthless. They exteranlize it and say, its unAmerican and maintain their self-esteem, while trying to correct what they perceive as wrong. I don’t know what is the right way, because the American way of dealing with failure is disastrous. I outline a couple of them below.

Beautiful!

Many Indians I know with low Indian self esteem acquire high American self esteem and come across as lecturing prats. But your dissection is wonderful.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby member_22733 » 06 Dec 2015 11:03

Oh yes, that is the MUTU phenomena. The attempt to scrub ones extremely poor self-image and then morph into an identity that one respects. Outwardly they appear well adjusted Americans, but that is just skin deep. Deep inside, they are ashamed and they would react either by trying to shame the Indians (lecturing prats) or completely dissociating themselves from Desis (Dinesh D'Souza style).

BTW: Thx :)

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby KLNMurthy » 06 Dec 2015 11:25

shiv wrote:...
Beautiful!

Many Indians I know with low Indian self esteem acquire high American self esteem and come across as lecturing prats. But your dissection is wonderful.

+1 LokeshC.

Your analysis provides a good deal of clarity both about the mechanism of transformation from Indian-mindset to American-mindset as well as the psychological motivation behind it.

The transformation is the switch from internalization of failure to externalization.

The driver for the transformation is the sheer emotional stress and exhaustion from constant and continual internalization of failure. So, the moment a viable alternative becomes available to shed that burden, we take it readily.

So, why do so many Americanized Indians continue to push for India-dwelling Indians to keep internalizing failure? As in abusing Modi / deriding space program etc.? Perhaps it is because (a) contrast with those (till recently) like us still suffering from failure internalization makes our own newfound delight of externalization that much more pleasurable and (b) probably the internalization / externalization modes are instinctively triggered by context (what the ancients called the "vaasana")--we externalize in the physical American context and internalize in the Indian one.

Among other reasons, Modi is hard to understand for many because he is that rare creature, a stitha-prajna who can put failure in its own context, neither external nor internal.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby member_22733 » 06 Dec 2015 12:06

^^^ KLNM Re: Modiji.

A rooted person like Modiji is able to dissociate emotions and actions. Dissociate results and efforts. The need for placing "shame" and placing "failure" as an internal or external entity then goes away.

The secret to achieving a strong self-identity and self-worth is all there in Hindu Yogic practices, which got adopted into Buddhist Mindfulness practices and now being digested by the west.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Vayutuvan » 06 Dec 2015 12:12

sanjaykumar wrote:So was this a terror attack or was it a case of a Muslim being well integrated and Americanised?

The gun control lobby wants to know.

Your wry bromide kills me with its sheer dryness - especially now it is so bloody cold here in some parts of the U.S. and Canada, it is very difficult to bear so much of dry impersonality as yours unless one is on the last of ones life. :(

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby JE Menon » 06 Dec 2015 13:50

sanjaykumar - tweet it for fux sakes. These are gems not to be just left here on the discussion dust of BRF.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Singha » 06 Dec 2015 14:47

Now you know why i pisted that tyrion lannister quote in nukkad yesterday

I am going to print it tomorrow and paste it in my sons room.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby chetak » 06 Dec 2015 15:07

TERROR COCKTAIL, SHAKEN IN PAKISTAN, SERVED IN US



TERROR COCKTAIL, SHAKEN IN PAKISTAN, SERVED IN US

Sunday, 06 December 2015 | Kanchan Gupta | in Coffee Break

Former US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had spoken of “snakes in Pakistan's backyard”. With the San Bernardino attack, one of them has sunk its poison fangs into the hand that so lovingly feeds Pakistan

For all the vaunted homeland security measures, including Orwellian intrusion into private spaces and legally sanctioned eves-dropping into electronic communications, initiated after 26/11, America and Americans may claim greater safety but are in no manner entirely immune from terrorism fuelled by jihadi hate ideology. The ghastly Boston bombings have been surpassed by the grisly massacre of December 2 at San Bernardino, California, when Syed Rizwan Farook, a born-in-US American citizen of Pakistani origin, and his wife Tashfeen Malik, a Pakistani who grew up in Saudi Arabia, shot dead 14 people and injured 21 others.

The death toll would have been manifold had the jihadi couple got to use the deadly arsenal, including assault rifles, 4,500 bullets and improvised explosive devices attached to children’s toys (much like the remote-controlled ‘doll bombs’ that are the latest fetish of Islamic State barbarians) they had put together. Ironically, the guns and bullets they used to kill Americans in cold blood were acquired in America, legally. Regular mass killings, including the slaughter of children in schools, racially motivated attacks and targeting of Jews, have done nothing to change stupid laws that allow Americans to buy weapons of assault and run amok.

If that’s the downside, the admirable bit is about the remarkable speed and accuracy with which the first respondents, the police, in acts of terrorism react in the US. Farook and Tashfeen fled the scene of the massacre but were tracked to their home. They tried to escape in their SUV. A gunfight follfoll. They were shot dead. But that’s only one part, possibly the most inconsequential part, of the story. Jihadis are conditioned to kill mercilessly; they are prepared to die a ruthless dead. No tears need to be shed for them.

Treacly stories have appeared of how Farook and Tashfeen left their six-month-old child with her grandmother, how a bleak future lies ahead for her. There is no denying that the child shall grow up parentless and carry the burden of her parents’ crimes. She is as much a victim as those who died or suffered injuries, a testimony to the veracity of what Golda Mier said in a not-so-different context: “Peace will come when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us.” We could well adapt that wisdom to our terrible and terrifying times: “Peace will come when Islamists love their children more than they hate the rest of the world.”

There were two initial responses to the San Bernardino killings. The first was organised by the Council on American-Islamic Relations. It was the usual hackneyed stuff about how “shocked we are”. Farook’s brother-in-law was trotted out to inform the world that he was not aware of what was being planned. This is now a perfectly honed standard operating procedure for CAIR which is also in the forefront of branding critics of Islamic fanaticism as Islamophobes and hounding them with the help of Left-liberals in academia, politics and people at large. There is no shortage of them in America. But even CAIR’s crocodile tears are inconsequential and must not distract us.

The second response came from investigators who suggested the killers were driven by the impulse of “sudden jihad”. That’s a new inclusion to the ever-expanding lexicon of terrorism as well as counter-terrorism. Beyond that it means nothing. Subsequent revelations bear out this point. Also demolished once again are bleeding heart notions of denial, deprivation, lack of education, joblessness, discrimination, in brief, imagined victimhood, fuel the jihadi impulse. Farook was educated, had a reasonably good job with San Bernardino County, while Tashfeen came from a well-off family and had studied pharmacology. Workplace colleagues do not appear to have been non-inclusive. They lived in a home and neighbourhood far more decent than they would have in Pakistan.

So what do we know now that should worry America and make us feel concerned? Three revelations by the FBI, which has designated the killings as ‘terrorism’, are of import. First, Farook visited Saudi Arabia where he met and married Tashfeen. He may also have met his jihadi mentors there. Farook is likely to have been in touch with one or more terrorist organisations. It is unlikely his conversion from chasing the American dream to chasing the jihadi dream was of recent vintage. Like the beard he grew, the jihadi impulse must have taken time to overwhelm his critical thinking after being planted in his mind.

Second, before they embarked upon their shoot-to-kill mission, Tashfeen is believed to have declared her allegiance to the Islamic State. Her crossing the line and entering the zone of no return would have followed contemplation and reasonable exposure to jihad’s dark ideology and acceptance as well as internalisation of the Islamic State’s message of recreating the caliphate on the foundation of hate. Nobody crosses over just like that. The years she spent in Saudi Arabia, imbibing Wahaabi fanaticism, would have prepared her for the final step.

Third, Tashfeen, who grew up in Saudi Arabia after moving there at the age of two with her parents, returned to Pakistan to study pharmacology. Investigators say she came in contact with Maulana Abdul Aziz who is the chief cleric at Islamabad’s infamous Lal Masjid with which she was subsequently associated. Lal Masjid became a terror den during Gen Pervez Musharraf’s time, taunting the military and mocking him. Matters came to a pass when Lal Masjid thugs went after Chinese workers. To pacify an enraged Beijing, Musharraf ordered a raid on Lal Majid and its fortified madarsas for men and women. Aziz tried to escape in a burqa but was caught.

That was in 2007. Two years later Aziz was back in business after being set free by Pakistan’s sainted judges occupying seats in its hallowed courts of justice. All he had to do was plead “Not guilty”. The state, as always, did not press for prosecution. Aziz has since named the library at Lal Masjid after Osama bin Laden, set up a network of madarsas that are cradles of future terrorists, declared allegiance to the Islamic State and refused to condemn the 2014 Peshawar School carnage in which 148 children aged eight to 15 were killed by the Pakistani Taliban. Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s alleged civilian Government and the Pakistani Army mollycoddle him.

So it’s a deadly cocktail of Army, Allah and America, shaken in Saudi Arabia, stirred in Pakistan and served in America. Hillary Clinton spoke of “snakes in Pakistan’s backyard”. One of them has sunk its poison fangs into the hand that so lovingly feeds Pakistan. Deceit and duplicity, when used as instruments of dollar-funded ‘strategic diplomacy’, can never fetch anything that is even remotely good. A second lesson: Both Paris and San Bernardino suggest we will increasingly witness female jihadis playing a prominent role in terrorist attacks. Paris was a repeat of 26/11 in both tactics and strategy. San Bernardino was more a ‘lone wolf’ attack. Paris proved, at a grievous cost to human lives, that our cities remain vulnerable in the face of unrelenting Islamism, especially of the vicious Islamic State variety. San Bernardino has shown what we are up next.

(The author is a current affairs journalist based in NCR)

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby member_29247 » 06 Dec 2015 15:40

The most amazing transformation is that the people of US have been completely brain washed and made to toe the line of what ever propaganda is touted by the so called free press and TV.

In that sense I find very sad that the ordinary citizens have become completely oblivious of the manipulation much deeper that in SU or PRC at the height of cold wa r era

The control of the mind of the people has always been A project well pursued but it is now completely achieved I think

The " embedded press corps " is the height of joke.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby chetak » 06 Dec 2015 15:46

Spinster wrote:The most amazing transformation is that the people of US have been completely brain washed and made to toe the line of what ever propaganda is touted by the so called free press and TV.

In that sense I find very sad that the ordinary citizens have become completely oblivious of the manipulation much deeper that in SU or PRC at the height of cold wa r era

The control of the mind of the people has always been A project well pursued but it is now completely achieved I think

The " embedded press corps " is the height of joke.



depends on which orifice of the amreki body politic the press corp is embedded in.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby habal » 06 Dec 2015 17:24

barack obama is cia creation. His mother was working for the ford foundation. From mothers side both his grand parents were CIA.

http://www.infowars.com/bombshell-barac ... -creation/

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby shiv » 06 Dec 2015 20:51

I just had a look at the US's first amendment. The practice of religion cannot be prevented. Jihad, technically cannot be opposed because it is part of Islam. Illegal acts resulting from jihad cannot be prevented because they have to be done first to be illegal.

The US is going to face a constitutional crisis. The last time this happened IIRC was after 9-11 when the US went right ahead and restricted some freedoms (am I right?). What will happen this time?

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby NRao » 06 Dec 2015 20:57

Every nation has a clause to suspend their constitution. Indra Gandhi did in India, France is doing it now and push comes to shove, if "Jihad" becomes an issue, the US better do it.

But ....................... what has any of this to do with India-US relations? What has this killing in the US got to do with India and relations with the US?

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby A_Gupta » 06 Dec 2015 21:02

Moved to "Understanding USA" thread.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 07 Dec 2015 00:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby A_Gupta » 06 Dec 2015 21:02

deleted.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 07 Dec 2015 00:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ramana » 06 Dec 2015 21:49

Moreover the Paki couple who went jihadi could be mistaken for desis. So be aware and don't become a victim.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby NRao » 06 Dec 2015 21:51

A_Gupta wrote:
NRao wrote:Every nation has a clause to suspend their constitution. Indra Gandhi did in India, France is doing it now and push comes to shove, if "Jihad" becomes an issue, the US better do it.

But ....................... what has any of this to do with India-US relations? What has this killing in the US got to do with India and relations with the US?




Just to understand the US better.


Precisely why it needs another thread.

Leave this for India-US relations please.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby RoyG » 07 Dec 2015 02:25



Inner Jihad is strong with Dalila Mogahed. They all respectfully shoot her down.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Sumeet » 07 Dec 2015 06:08

RoyG wrote:

Inner Jihad is strong with Dalila Mogahed. They all respectfully shoot her down.



Arsa Noumani is Indian American muslim. She was born in Mumbai and she has expressed it clearly that Islam needs reformation especially of its core Jihadi ideology.

She should be brought on tv shows along with Tarak Fateh.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby RoyG » 07 Dec 2015 06:31

This needs to nurtured carefully. They are using secularism to reform Islam, but secularism itself needs to stay away from the dharmic traditions.

Almost every non-muslim that I talk to now is sick of these muzzies. Even people who were as left as you can imagine have done a complete 180.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby member_28042 » 07 Dec 2015 07:12

Found this on thegatewaypundit :rotfl:

Image

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Sumeet » 07 Dec 2015 10:51

RoyG wrote:This needs to nurtured carefully. They are using secularism to reform Islam, but secularism itself needs to stay away from the dharmic traditions.

Almost every non-muslim that I talk to now is sick of these muzzies. Even people who were as left as you can imagine have done a complete 180.



Roy who are your refering to when you say "these muzzies" ?

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby JE Menon » 07 Dec 2015 12:27

The chick in the photoshopped pic looks like Khalid Shaikh Mohammed...

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby JE Menon » 07 Dec 2015 13:07

http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/2015/ ... fe_in.html

On a separate, more aesthetic, note here's a wonderful bit of Americana. Couldn't help but share it. Gorgeous visualisation, conceptualisation, photograpy by Matt Henry

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby chetak » 07 Dec 2015 17:22

It's official, the WSJ says so, Mrs san bernardino terrorist was a paki onlee.




Wall Street Journal ‏@WSJ 9h9 hours ago
San Bernardino wife believed to be driving force to radicalism
http://on.wsj.com/1R47Swr
Image
149 retweets 113 likes

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby panduranghari » 07 Dec 2015 17:35

habal wrote:barack obama is cia creation. His mother was working for the ford foundation. From mothers side both his grand parents were CIA.

http://www.infowars.com/bombshell-barac ... -creation/


Rise of Obama Sr. sounds awefully like a certain mufflerman.

Mboya received a $100,000 grant for the airlift from the Kennedy Foundation after he turned down the same offer from the U.S. State Department, obviously concerned that direct U.S. assistance would look suspicious to pro-Communist Kenyan politicians who suspected Mboya of having CIA ties. The Airlift Africa project was underwritten by the Kennedy Foundation and the African-American Students Foundation. Obama, Sr. was not on the first airlift but a subsequent one.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby panduranghari » 07 Dec 2015 17:41

NRao wrote:Every nation has a clause to suspend their constitution. Indra Gandhi did in India, France is doing it now and push comes to shove, if "Jihad" becomes an issue, the US better do it.

But ....................... what has any of this to do with India-US relations? What has this killing in the US got to do with India and relations with the US?


AFAIK, USA is a constitutional republic. They claim its one step beyond democracy. If US suspends its constitution, they become LUTU- Less Uncle than Uncle.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Satya_anveshi » 07 Dec 2015 19:35

Source: ZH
Posting without comment:
San Bernardino Attack Eye-Witness: "Three Tall White Men Did It"

In a phone interview with CBS Abdelmageed explained:
"I heard shots fired and it was from you know an automatic weapon. [...] very unusual. Why would we hear shots? As we looked out the window a second set of shots goes off [...] and we saw a man fall to the floor. Then we just looked and we saw three men dressed in all black, military attire, with vests on they were holding assault rifles. As soon as they opened up the doors to building three [...] one of them [...] started to shoot into the room."

When asked what the gunman that shot into the room looked like the eyewitness replied:

"I couldn’t see a face, he had a black hat on […] black cargo pants, the kind with the big puffy pockets on the side [...] long sleeve shirt [...] gloves [...] huge assault rifle [...] six magazines […] I just saw three dressed exactly the same”.

“You are certain you saw three men,” the newscaster asked Abdelmageed.

“Yes,” said Abdelmageed.

“It looked like their skin color was white. They look like they were athletic build and they appeared to be tall.”

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Satya_anveshi » 07 Dec 2015 19:41

There were Tall and they were Fair. I think athletic built means they had T A as well.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby NRao » 07 Dec 2015 20:31

panduranghari wrote:
NRao wrote:Every nation has a clause to suspend their constitution. Indra Gandhi did in India, France is doing it now and push comes to shove, if "Jihad" becomes an issue, the US better do it.

But ....................... what has any of this to do with India-US relations? What has this killing in the US got to do with India and relations with the US?


AFAIK, USA is a constitutional republic. They claim its one step beyond democracy. If US suspends its constitution, they become LUTU- Less Uncle than Uncle.


Per Wiki, so is India (India is a federal constitutional republic). And, I was around when Indiraji declared a state of emergency - I had clients, who were lawyers and they never saw their clients again!!! :(

It happens.

Despite that info, personally I supported I Gandhi.

(BTW, not sure if you are aware, 1972, Indian railway strikes, my buddies had to take buses from Nagpur to Delhi. As they traversed in interior of India, they paid for bus fair in Indian Rs., but they received change in Chinese currency!!!! A couple of years later, Gandhi declares emergency. Less said the better, but suffice to say I think it was worth it. Some people were not defended by the Indian "constitution".

It happens.

Here are some Americans who discuss the matter.

Every nation HAS to have a way out to manage threats. I just cannot see any nation not having that clause.

More to this from an Indian PoV.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Singha » 07 Dec 2015 20:33

#3 being on the loose must be why a batallion of police descended on the mall last night where a robbery took place.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Satya_anveshi » 07 Dec 2015 20:37

IMO, if there were 3, all there are on loose

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby habal » 07 Dec 2015 20:50

It is best if you leave terror strikes in US all alone, that is first class example of animal farm if ever there was one. Leave them to their guns, periodic shooting, shooting dead unarmed black youth etc. It is their speciality. For past few terror strikes there were drills conveniently in vicinity. Tashfin was short ?

both of them are conveniently shot dead, so nobody to negate official version.

circle of misery will be complete when hitlery klingon assumes office.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Satya_anveshi » 07 Dec 2015 21:00

Pakistan should be called Patsystan

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby habal » 07 Dec 2015 21:09

btw President Obama is now Mr. Obama on CNN. Should be clear indicator on which way water is flowing.

and Mr. Assad is now ocassionaly President Assad on CNN. Grudging acknowledgement ...

Vladimir Putin was always President Putin except for short period during Crimea and MH17 when he was Putin.

ldev
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Posts: 2007
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ldev » 07 Dec 2015 21:43

Syed Rizwan Farook and his wife Tashfeen Malik passing through US customs at O'Hare airport, Chicago in July 2014.
Image

TSJones
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby TSJones » 07 Dec 2015 21:49

ldev wrote:Syed Rizwan Farook and his wife Tashfeen Malik passing through US customs at O'Hare airport, Chicago in July 2014.
Image


gawd, I would luv to put those faces on a target for my mini 30 at the shootin' range.

I would have instant coolness status amongst my colleague peer group there.


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