India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

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A_Gupta
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby A_Gupta » 11 Aug 2015 18:05

White House Press Briefing, August 7, 2015, relevant sections:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-of ... est-872015

The question is by Mark somebody.
PS: only Mark I could find in the current White House Press Corps is Mark Knoller of CBS Radio News.

Q And secondly, several times from this podium you have said that countries like India, Japan, South Korea are not going to be part of any additional sanctions against Iran if this deal is not (inaudible.) Is this based on a reduction of --

MR. EARNEST: Well, I think it’s both. And let me explain to you why. You’ll recall that when these sanctions were originally put in place three or four years ago that the United States traveled around the world including to India, sat down with the Indian government and asked them to curtail the amount of Iranian oil that they imported into the country. And we acknowledged in the context of those discussions that this would be an economic sacrifice that the people of India and that the economy of India would have to make. But Indian leaders agreed to it by saying that this is something that they were willing to do if they can advance our effort to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon through diplomacy.

In essence, that was the agreement -- that countries like India had agreed that they would take these steps, even at their own expense, to try to reach this broader international agreement. And the good news is that that agreement has been reached. And it is an agreement that is supported by the international community -- 99 percent of the world, as the President has described it.

And that’s why it would be so damaging to the standing of the United States for the United States Congress to act unilaterally to kill this deal. No longer would countries like India, who have been making a substantial sacrifice over the years, have any interest or incentive to continue to enforce those sanctions against Iran. There is no basis, there is no credible claim for why they would be willing to do that. And there is no denying the significant negative impact on United States credibility for the United States to be isolated in this way.

That’s why the President has said if Congress were to move forward to kill this deal or kill this agreement, it would, in fact, yield a better deal for Iran. Because what we would see is that Iran would get sanctions relief; they would have the ability to sell oil to India and get the proceeds of doing so without having to reduce their nuclear stockpile by 98 percent, without having to put 13,000 centrifuges in storage, without having to gut their heavy-water plutonium reactor, and without having to submit to the most intrusive set of inspections that have ever been imposed on a country’s nuclear program.

That’s why I’ve long said that the case before Congress is that Iran is going to get sanctions relief. The question is whether or not the United States and the international community is going to get anything for it. And that is ultimately the choice before members of Congress right now, and it’s why we continue to be confident that we’ll be able to build substantial support -- at least in the Democratic caucus -- in both the House and the Senate in support of this agreement.


Q Thanks very much. Two questions. One, there are so many engagements going on between U.S.-India relations and including Assistant Secretary of State for South Asian Affairs Nisha Desai made statements in New York, and also I got email from Ambassador Richard Verma from the U.S. Embassy in Delhi where he said that under his administration, during his six months in India, the embassy staff has done so much as far as U.S.-India relations are concerned in space and trade and other matters. My question is here, now, Silicon Valley is ready to welcome Prime Minister Modi next month in a huge celebration and function like in New York he received a welcome. Has the Prime Minister has been invited to the White House by President Obama before he leaves for the celebration of the U.N. 70th anniversary in New York?

MR. EARNEST: Goyal, I’m not aware of any planned visits by Prime Minister Modi to the White House in conjunction with his travel to the United States for the U.N. General Assembly.

Q Second, this week marks the third anniversary of the hate crimes at the Oak Creek, Wisconsin Sikh gurdwara. Tomorrow, the members of the Sikh community is going to march from the Lincoln Memorial to the U.S. Capitol and the White House. And several lawmakers also registered, including Congressman Joe Crowley, against hate crimes against the Sikh community. Any statement from the President? Also if anything has been done? Because they are asking anything for their safety because of their look.

MR. EARNEST: Well, Goyal, when this event -- when this tragic event originally occurred, we expressed our profound sorry at the innocent loss of life and offered our sincere condolences to the families of those who have loved ones that were killed in this vicious attack. And I think what I would remind you of is that this administration has made countering violent extremism like the violent extremism that we saw in Oak Creek, Wisconsin a top priority. And this kind of extremism manifests itself in a variety of ways. And this administration is determined to work effectively with local elected officials and local law enforcement and with community leaders across the country in communities large and small to counter it.

And this is a challenge and a risk that the administration doesn't take lightly. And our efforts, thanks to the good, hard work of our national security professionals continue 24 hours a day, seven days a week, to try to protect the American people.

Q And finally, my personal greetings and happy birthday to the President and I wish him all the best and God bless him.

MR. EARNEST: Thank you, Goyal.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ramana » 11 Aug 2015 19:28

svinayak wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:
The question remains, what would India's policy be if the Iran deal falls through because of the US Congress?

India has to look after Indian Interest



WH Spokesman already said India will be free to pursue its interests. The not buying oil from Iran was part of an earlier one time agreement in interests of Middle East peace.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby arun » 12 Aug 2015 12:22

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

Economic Times prints Op-Ed by Seema Sirohi under the title “US doesn’t have the stomach to deal with Pakistan in a realistic fashion”, on the detrimental to India pandering of the terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan by the United States:

US doesn’t have the stomach to deal with Pakistan in a realistic fashion

The article by Daniel Runde titled “Pakistan: The Next Colombia Success Story?” referenced by Seema Sirohi was posted by Sudhan on BRF’s STFUP thread on Aug 5th : Clicky.

The article by (US Citizen?) Sameer Lalwani titled “Pakistan's Shocking Strategic Shift” in The National Interest which appeared on Aug. 3, I do not recollect seeing on BRF so here is the link:

Pakistan's Shocking Strategic Shift

Then there was yesterday in the NYT the below piece by Bina Shah on the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s prowess in IT, no not IT of Islamic Terrorism variety but rather Information Technology.

Seems that there is a deliberate coordinated effort going on in the US to spin the idea that it is not a case of IslamaBad but rather a case of IslamaGood:

arun wrote:New York Times provides the platform to peddle the theory that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan will become a global IT export hub, that is IT of the Information Technology and not IT of the Islamic Terrorism variety where the Islamic Republic is a leading exporter.

Article in NYT, as is not uncommon of articles authored by citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, one Bina Shah in this case, has its usual share of Madrassah Maths. Claim of the volume of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s IT exports at USD 1,600 Million is highly exaggerated going by Pakistan Software Export Board statistics (Clicky) which had projected IT exports of USD 500 Million in 2015 and reported USD 370 Million of IT exports in 2014:

Pakistan, the Next Software Hub?

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Prem » 12 Aug 2015 22:17

http://www.firstpost.com/world/goddess- ... 85298.html
Goddess Kali showcased on the Empire State building in NYC and here's why
(pictures in the link)

Goddess Kali took over New York City last week, quite literally and it's breathtaking!
The Hindu goddess was displayed on the facade of the building that is synonymous with New York, the iconic Empire State building.Artist Android Jones designed the fierce portrait of Kali, who is the Goddess of Time, Change, Power and Destruction, to make the point that Mother Nature now more than ever needs a fierce avatar to fight the dangers of pollution and extinction.It was the last, most captivating artwork in the exhibition by filmmaker Louie Psihoyos called Projecting Change, which projected pictures of endangered creatures onto the NYC skyline with San Francisco based Obscura Digital.It was meant to spark awareness of massive wildlife extinction, and to draw attention to the alarming rate at which species are dying. The show ended with a representation of Kali - the goddess of darkness - imploring people world over to fight the darkness and to take up conservation.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Prem » 12 Aug 2015 22:19


Vayutuvan
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Vayutuvan » 12 Aug 2015 23:42

Is that second video of Anita Fuentes a spoof? No matter, it is 15 minutes of rip-roaring hilarity.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Austin » 13 Aug 2015 11:55

Wonder this was posted

US warns of ‘chilling effect’ after India’s crackdown on foreign NGOs

"I read with some concern the recent press reports on challenges faced by NGOs operating in India," Verma said.

"Because a vibrant civil society is so important to both of our democratic traditions, I do worry about the potentially chilling effects of these regulatory steps focused on NGOs."

Verma said civil society organisations were an integral part of the struggle for advances in health, inclusive economic growth, environmental protections, human rights and the strengthening of democracy.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Mort Walker » 13 Aug 2015 17:01

^^^Dick Werma couldn't say anything more. Money talks and sh*t walks. As long as India is on the trajectory of growth, all else will be ignored.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Austin » 13 Aug 2015 17:16

There is an History to it for NGO and its work , no wonder US is worried about Democracy in India

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/p ... sts/224710

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Prem » 14 Aug 2015 02:25

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-i ... story.html

Indian immigrants are tech's new titans

's no secret that parents in India urge their kids to excel in math and science, believing that it's the clearest path up the social ladder.But education is only part of the reason Indian immigrants are reaching the top executive ranks at major U.S. corporations — most recently Google Inc.'s appointment of Sundar Pichai this week to chief executive. That followed Microsoft Corp.'s promotion of Satya Nadella to CEO last year.Along with Indian immigrants leading companies such as Adobe Systems, Nokia, Global Foundries and Mastercard, Pichai and Nadella are evidence that a generation of Indians has benefited from upbringings in a culture that, at its best, values humility, close-knit family ties and respect for all walks of life, according to cultural experts and Indian executives themselves.Such traits are highly valued in the corporate suite, not just in the U.S. but at any global corporation.Mix in India's ongoing cultural chaos, which, for those who survive it, offers real-life lessons in cooperation, teamwork and leadership, and experts say it makes sense that executives might emerge, capable of steering a sprawling workforce through rapid change."A very strong educational base and technical skills are key to many parts of the tech ecosystem," said Silicon Valley venture capitalist Vinod Khosla, who co-founded Sun Microsystems. "Strong entrepreneurial skills and work ethic ... and growing up and dealing with scarce resources give the Indian community an advantage."It's not just top executives, either. There are 89,000 Indians living in Silicon Valley, according to the Migration Policy Institute, with most of the families involved in the tech industry. Another 86,000 Indians live in San Francisco and Oakland.Many have jumped into the start-up economy. Vivek Wadhwa, who teaches at Stanford and Duke universities and has studied Indian American entrepreneurs, found that by 2012, nearly 16% of start-ups in Silicon Valley had an Indian co-founder even though Indians represented just 6% of the region's population. The figure for Indian start-ups is even higher in some areas, such as business software.Venktesh Shukla, a venture capitalist and president of the Silicon Valley networking group the Indus Entrepreneurs, said even in the smallest of villages, Muslims live next to Hindus and white-collar professionals next to weavers. Languages, dress and hobbies diverge. Shukla said they were taught to see the "different" people as neither superior nor inferior."Treating people with respect comes very naturally to Indians," he said. "People from homogenous societies need that as an acquired skill."The respect showed through small gestures when running his own software start-up, Shukla said. He'd offered his ear especially to employees who weren't talking much. He kept decision-making open-ended in favor of blanket policies. It added up to more viewpoints and greater success, he concluded.
Unlike the people in some cultures, Indians learn to challenge authority, a legacy of the country's fight for independence from Britain. Indians learn English in school, and because the best-educated speak it fluently, they assimilate well into global-oriented businesses, where English is the primary language."You don't leave behind a middle-class existence to become dirt," Wadhwa said. "They are the top 1% of India, and now you put them in the fertile ground of Silicon Valley and you have the magic."With more U.S.-educated Indians choosing to return to India to start companies, there's concern a brain drain might cause the Indian influence to wane. Several start-ups in India have surpassed $1-billion valuations on the private market, and they're poaching some top Silicon Valley executives.But the Indians who stick around have one trend to be excited about. Smart technology leaders with enough business sense are increasingly being elevated in companies, giving a leg up to Indians who traditionally have fewer sales and marketing skills. That's part of why Pichai quickly rose up through the ranks at Google over the last 11 years. Shukla called it a tribute to Google and Microsoft that Pichai and Nadella had reached the top positions."They are relentless in identifying talent in early stages of their careers and providing opportunities for people who are so different to end up at the top," he said. "It's a reflection of the meritocratic cultures of these companies."There's another positive sign too. About a third of the 2 million people in the Indian diaspora in the U.S. are children :wink: of immigrants, according to the Migration Policy Institute.Wadhwa worried a decade ago whether the next generation would be as successful, but he's realizing as his son's generation nears its 30s that they are on a path to be strong performers. Success stories include Indian born but Toronto-raised Apoorva Mehta, who's grocery delivery start-up Instacart has been valued at more than $2 billion by its investors.The second generation has the best of both worlds," Wadhwa said. "They have my values yet all the American advantages. They can achieve the same as my generation at much younger age."

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Vayutuvan » 14 Aug 2015 03:27

Austin: It was posted.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Philip » 14 Aug 2015 13:36

Sources said the government was particularly surprised by the letter of U.S. Ambassador Samantha Powers that said the U.S. was “open to a modest expansion” of the membership, and wanted specific countries that would be considered to be named in advance, thereby rejecting the current text-based process that India had been pushing for. “This document puts into doubt everything the U.S. has conveyed to India bilaterally on the issue,” one diplomat told The Hindu.


How the US regularly shafts India.This has been done to accommodate the Paki interests,the US's everlasting lust for its favourite rent-boy Pak.So much for our great "strategic partner"!

India should immediately retaliate and cancel many of the lucrative defence deals with the US on the anvil.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Paul » 15 Aug 2015 16:08

Image

Brown sepoy parade. Who is on Verma's left?

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Tuvaluan » 15 Aug 2015 17:20

C. Rajamohan -- Indian strategerist from Singapore who writes in the Indian express.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Shreeman » 15 Aug 2015 19:02

Philip wrote:
Sources said the government was particularly surprised by the letter of U.S. Ambassador Samantha Powers that said the U.S. was “open to a modest expansion” of the membership, and wanted specific countries that would be considered to be named in advance, thereby rejecting the current text-based process that India had been pushing for. “This document puts into doubt everything the U.S. has conveyed to India bilaterally on the issue,” one diplomat told The Hindu.


How the US regularly shafts India.This has been done to accommodate the Paki interests,the US's everlasting lust for its favourite rent-boy Pak.So much for our great "strategic partner"!

India should immediately retaliate and cancel many of the lucrative defence deals with the US on the anvil.


Dont be silly Phillip. The US will retaliate with visas and student restrictions and travel warnings and so on. Besides given the sales pitches, I have a feeling the forum will be collectively poorer if that were to occur.

And with no YelSeaYay or C17s or C130 spares, the IYayF will be flying gnats again. The Navy will have to cancel vishal and the trenton will sink.

You cant be a minor client and talk up to your supplier. Where will the fixes come from?

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Manny » 15 Aug 2015 21:57

THE ANTI CHRIST GODDESS KALI AND THE “THUGS”

http://www.desicontrarian.com/?p=1373

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby chaanakya » 15 Aug 2015 22:50

Philip wrote:
Sources said the government was particularly surprised by the letter of U.S. Ambassador Samantha Powers that said the U.S. was “open to a modest expansion” of the membership, and wanted specific countries that would be considered to be named in advance, thereby rejecting the current text-based process that India had been pushing for. “This document puts into doubt everything the U.S. has conveyed to India bilaterally on the issue,” one diplomat told The Hindu.


How the US regularly shafts India.This has been done to accommodate the Paki interests,the US's everlasting lust for its favourite rent-boy Pak.So much for our great "strategic partner"!

India should immediately retaliate and cancel many of the lucrative defence deals with the US on the anvil.

Shreeman wrote:Dont be silly Phillip. The US will retaliate with visas and student restrictions and travel warnings and so on. Besides given the sales pitches, I have a feeling the forum will be collectively poorer if that were to occur.

And with no YelSeaYay or C17s or C130 spares, the IYayF will be flying gnats again. The Navy will have to cancel vishal and the trenton will sink.

You cant be a minor client and talk up to your supplier. Where will the fixes come from? :wink:


That will be blessings in disguise.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby krisna » 16 Aug 2015 04:25

^^^^
IIRC initially USA agreed to help India with relation to nuclear use for peaceful purposes but reneged on its promise. As India exploded nuc bum due to adverse neighbours and unkil turning blind eye to it. They penalised India. But India came out better in the bargain. Now it has its own well developed nuclear industry.
Same happened with LCA help. The usa threw our scientists/LCA folks from USA when visiting their facilities during the 2nd nuc bum. All help stalled.
During this time LCA was stifled but some new developments happened which helped in many other ways. I don't remember exact details. APJK mentioned this in his talk at Chennai. The spinoffs were exported to others including USA. Like to LM airbus bopping something related to fly by wire (am not sure).

usa tried to screw ISRO thru dual military peaceful applications nonsense- but India beat them against all odds- recall Nambiu Harahan episode and many others.

Possibly there are many that I don't know.

Overall the main thing is USA(or for that matter any other dominant western Christian power) does not want other powers to develop.
It is related to denial of technology, money business and others included.


To be a superpower- 1)one should lead
2) prevent others from acquiring what you have actively or passively.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby TSJones » 16 Aug 2015 12:11

Just where is it written that the US has to accept India's demands to reform the security council?

Just because the US has agreed that India should be on the security council doesn't mean we have to accept all kinds of demands from India also concerning admitting Brazil or anything else for that matter.

That's not gonna happen and Russia and China agrees with us by their vote.

You wanna be on the security council? OK, we're for that.

But don't think India is going to tell us how to reform the security council.

Because it's not happening. No way. No how.

India didn't like a WTO agricultural agreement and India didn't sign it. Fine.

We don't like a reform proposal based on India's admittance to the security council and we're not signing it. Fine.

Neither did Russia or China.

Epic fail.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Shreeman » 16 Aug 2015 12:29

TSJ,

"Reforming" the security council! That will be the day. Adding one member, same as others, radical as it sounds is an up or down vote preposition.

These reform ideas on the other hand are unworkable nonsense going on from the days of league of nations. Its a way for the US to say 2015-17 are domestoc issue based years. We have got to debate illegal immigrants over here for a bit, why dont we pick this up in say 2018?

Dont know why India thought they were getting on the council, let alone in 15-17. There is about as much chance of this as India joining NATO.

The Russia, china business on this is a side show. Just as much as france or uk.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby TSJones » 16 Aug 2015 12:58

India should have identified all the factions on the security council who were in favor of India's admittance. That way, India could have made sure her supporters were on the same page with no reservations and worked behind the scenes to overwhelm those factions who were against it.

Instead, India made a list for reforms to include other countries also, whom her supporters may *not* have agreed to. Thus ensuring refusal for India's acceptance to the security council.

In the future, please make sure all your supporters are on the same page and in agreement before forcing a vote for reform..

It would be nice if India would do that.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby rsingh » 16 Aug 2015 16:42

What we loose if we withdraw from UN? Me think UN is to loose more in such case. Imagine 1/5 of humanity not represented. Many more countrie will follow us. WTF we are taken as =Luxemburg=Somalia= Bourkina Faso= Maldive. Hell with UN. What is rational behind veto power for France? Modi ji has to solve this nainsafi.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Shreeman » 16 Aug 2015 18:02

Rsingh,

The UN is more than general assembly. Everything from navigation, transport and trade falls under some "convention" not to mention possible precedents of bakis moving resolutions without any opposition. National court judges can be paid off or conned into believing anything -- a la assange.

As meaningless as the general assembly is, sitting there keeps things moving beyond your borders without mischief. It would be naive to think you can avoid it, or Taiwan and Palestine types wont be trying to get in for decades.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby rsingh » 16 Aug 2015 18:13

Shreeman wrote:Rsingh,

The UN is more than general assembly. Everything from navigation, transport and trade falls under some "convention" not to mention possible precedents of bakis moving resolutions without any opposition. National court judges can be paid off or conned into believing anything -- a la assange.

As meaningless as the general assembly is, sitting there keeps things moving beyond your borders without mischief. It would be naive to think you can avoid it, or Taiwan and Palestine types wont be trying to get in for decades.


used to think on these lines,but Swiss are doing great without UN. Let's have discussion on it. Somebody has to start dedicated thread on it where we can list pro & cons of leaving UN. Just the hints of India considering this step would change the world.JMT

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby uddu » 16 Aug 2015 18:15

That's the difference. We dont enter through the back door. Reform is something that's talked about for long and if there is opposition from the U.S, Russia and China. India and other countries can pull out and form it's own U.N with all the members in the African Union and small countries following. The U.N will be reduced to a G-20 kind of block.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Shreeman » 16 Aug 2015 18:23

RSingh,

India is not the Swiss. A tiny homogeneous european cash dump. And the swiss arent as without the UN as you think. India on the other hand has way too many fissures. The UN security council is a non issue. Except for pride, who gives two hoots? Did the UAE types care before they attacked Libya? Or Saudi before Yemen? Or Isarel before Palestine, Lebanon, Syria or Iraq? Do what you need to. There is no need to walk off the hundreds of negotiation tables you are seated at, just because you are miffed because of the SC thing.

Want a seat? Get a functioning, expeditionary military. Invade a place or two.

uddu, You still believe in santa clause? You do understand that the UN (and the banana republic governments) function as a rubber stamp. There was a non-aligned experiment wasnt there? I recall Mugabe being prominent. Sure you want to try again? This isnt how diplomacy functions. Have a stick first, then talk all you want. No stick, no mic.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby uddu » 16 Aug 2015 19:13

What i meant is moving U.N to New Delhi with a different name with all the reforms and all the members eventually. :)

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby TSJones » 16 Aug 2015 19:43

Shreeman wrote:RSingh,

India is not the Swiss. A tiny homogeneous european cash dump. And the swiss arent as without the UN as you think. India on the other hand has way too many fissures. The UN security council is a non issue. Except for pride, who gives two hoots? Did the UAE types care before they attacked Libya? Or Saudi before Yemen? Or Isarel before Palestine, Lebanon, Syria or Iraq? Do what you need to. There is no need to walk off the hundreds of negotiation tables you are seated at, just because you are miffed because of the SC thing.

Want a seat? Get a functioning, expeditionary military. Invade a place or two.

uddu, You still believe in santa clause? You do understand that the UN (and the banana republic governments) function as a rubber stamp. There was a non-aligned experiment wasnt there? I recall Mugabe being prominent. Sure you want to try again? This isnt how diplomacy functions. Have a stick first, then talk all you want. No stick, no mic.


more importantly, cough up the cash. oodles and oodles of it.

and not just 22% for general operations but also pick up 28% of the tab for peacekeeping missions, and services in kind, various military support ships and planes and fuel.

you want some power? dig deep, pilgrim.
Last edited by TSJones on 16 Aug 2015 19:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Singha » 16 Aug 2015 19:45

i have a theory wrt to hiroshima and nagasaki.

i think it was not militarily necessary nor the tokyo fire bombing that killed even more people.

at the time , japans navy had been destroyed, and her air force almost so. B-29s were roaming around at high level with impunity with P51 type escorts and bombing whatever mattered.

they could if they wanted have levelled the imperial palace in tokyo and the emperor with it. they could destroyed the power grid, fuel refineries and food stockpiles for a few months to immobilize the economy. suicide boats were being prepped but again all ports could have been demolished.

i think it was done to send a message to the soviet union not to get active in western europe (and asia with the mao-stalin alliance) beyond their agreed upon share of the spoils. and hiroshima sure did light a fire in stalin's belly...he got the soviet n-bomb made in a miraculous timeframe.

japan was the only place left to bomb by then as the war in europe and africa was over. too bad 300k souls were snuffed out to deliver this strategic message....but thats how the big boys play....riding roughshod over anything in the way.

stalin would have done the same thing.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby TSJones » 16 Aug 2015 19:56

Japan wanted conditions for their surrender.

The US demanded unconditional surrender.

However we relented and let the emperor live.

He would serve the warlord MacArthur who supervised and guided Japan's constitution and government.

The Air Lord Curtis LeMay was told to stand down and go home. He did. And initiated the Berlin Airlift assumed control of SAC.
He never was made chairman of the Joint Chiefs due to his hatred of the Navy. :D

MacArthur was never made chairman either. They were afraid he would be Caesar. :)
Last edited by TSJones on 16 Aug 2015 20:09, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Shreeman » 16 Aug 2015 20:00

TSJones wrote:
Shreeman wrote:RSingh,

India is not the Swiss. A tiny homogeneous european cash dump. And the swiss arent as without the UN as you think. India on the other hand has way too many fissures. The UN security council is a non issue. Except for pride, who gives two hoots? Did the UAE types care before they attacked Libya? Or Saudi before Yemen? Or Isarel before Palestine, Lebanon, Syria or Iraq? Do what you need to. There is no need to walk off the hundreds of negotiation tables you are seated at, just because you are miffed because of the SC thing.

Want a seat? Get a functioning, expeditionary military. Invade a place or two.

uddu, You still believe in santa clause? You do understand that the UN (and the banana republic governments) function as a rubber stamp. There was a non-aligned experiment wasnt there? I recall Mugabe being prominent. Sure you want to try again? This isnt how diplomacy functions. Have a stick first, then talk all you want. No stick, no mic.


more importantly, cough up the cash. oodles and oodles of it.

and not just 22% for general operations but also pick up 28% of the tab for peacekeeping missions, and services in kind, various military support ships and planes and fuel.

you want some power? dig deep, pilgrim.


TSJ,

The money part is a fallacy. Like military aid to Egypt and israel. This is a bribe to New York. For all the subsidization, NY gets many times over in diplomatic expenses. And today its china's money that is being spent anyway.

Yes, there is a prptectionist bribe being paid to NY to keep UN. But it is hardly charitable. Way too many countries will jump over it if the US were to cut UN lose, if only to gain from Gadhafi type tent rent.

Nope, its the demonstration of will and determination, be it hiroshima/nagasaki, the falklands, mali, south china sea, or ukraine.

TSJ -- no point in passing on those fallacies on japan. Someone needed to die with the bomb. Surrender or no surrender. This window dressing doesnt make that act any more palatable.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby krishna_krishna » 17 Aug 2015 04:13

Dear TSJ Ji,
You are quiet correct when you say US has right not to accept India's demand how to reform SC. In the same coin it is also right that India has (1/5th of humanity) to alter or let the old structures collapse under its dead weight of oldies. If they believe by doing all this it will stop India like they tried during 71 , pokhran tests, the list goes on and on. I am sorry my friend, sweet dreams "No Way Jose, its not happening" it did not happen in past and it never will. Well every one has right to keep trying however "insanity" by definition is trying to do same things over and over again expecting different results each time.

You can see in coming years keep popcorn handy from BRICS bank to silk road whole world is changing even though you don't like it that is the reality we live in. Subham astu

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Kakkaji » 17 Aug 2015 05:01

India should withdraw from the Commonwealth first, before withdrawing from the UN.

Instead of withdrawing from the UN, just scale down involvement.

In today's world, it is the bilateral relationships that matter. The UN is just a talking shop.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby A_Gupta » 17 Aug 2015 05:07

If the Iran nuclear deal comes through and actually works, it will be a plus for multilateralism, and so UN and UNSC.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Kakkaji » 17 Aug 2015 05:33

A_Gupta wrote:If the Iran nuclear deal comes through and actually works, it will be a plus for multilateralism, and so UN and UNSC.


The US Congress can reject it, and throw the multilateralism out the window.

The US Congress will make its decision based upon domestic US politics.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Manny » 17 Aug 2015 06:54

India should leave the UN..one way or the other.. Make a stand that it does not represent the world. Its an undemocratic cabal. A Cartel.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Tuvaluan » 17 Aug 2015 07:06

Manny wrote:India should leave the UN..one way or the other.. Make a stand that it does not represent the world. Its an undemocratic cabal. A Cartel.


UNSC is a forum to play power politics, and holding veto power is not something anyone in the UNSC is going to hand over to others -- not a chance. As for India just ignoring the UN, leave alone leaving it, don't hold your breath for that to happen -- by all appearances the jokers in Charge and going to keep pushing for a seat in the UNSC and waste more time and effort as they have for the past two decades.....even as they complain about a lack of human resources in the MEA to do what's necessary etc. Five years down the line, you will see the same people whine about how the UNSC needs reform and why India deserves a UNSC seat because you know, one-fifth of humanity. What an utter farce that is played as "foreign policy".

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby krishna_krishna » 17 Aug 2015 07:58

Tuvaluan ji, I agree with your thoughts on MEA baboons, but I disagree on India's need to UNSC for mickey mouse Singh portrayed it was absolute necessary. But I think it has changed from necessary to nice to have currently to absolutely not needed in the future.

From Govt's perspective (This is my view so take it with a bag of salt) is that if this takes or makes our climb to top faster and easier than it is worth pursuing otherwise we do it like how we have done the hard way. And I don't blame them for trying for the easier path.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Philip » 17 Aug 2015 18:06

Since we are going to overtake China as the world's most populous nation in a decade's time,there is no way that the UNSC can retain its legitimacy without India. Ramping up our thorium N-plant independence in nuclear fuel with FBRs, and increasing our N-arsenal to several thousands of warheads,plus a variety of delivery systems of the triad along with space-based weaponry,it would matter little if India was not a member even then.The UN needs India more (peacekeeping troops) than frankly we need the UN! AS said many a time,the UN is a fancy bordello,where the P-5 get to f*ck the rest of the world,the US for free,with a rotating system of voyeur nations in the UNSC,while the P-5 have their "pick" of the the General Assembly to roger at their hearts content.

Thus nations like Yugoslavia,Iraq,Afghanistan,Libya,etc.,have been r*ped and s*domised by some of the P-5 along with their catamite cronies ,whose stature today is so insignificant (apart from the N-weapons) that they scarcely qualify to be waiters at the UNSC caféteria!

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Shreeman » 17 Aug 2015 19:52

^^^Phillip,

Status quo flows like the molasses. Even if you were in the UNSC, the membership would not deliver what you really want from it. There is no point in having or expressing this anguish -- look at russia.

Big stick == voice. Population is not a big stick. Else china would be ruling phillipines to taiwan long time ago. Money to spread around, or good old expeditions like the mughals. Those are the two ways. What about taking over Fiji to begin with?


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