India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

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RoyG
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby RoyG » 13 Jun 2016 02:01

SwamyG wrote:Second amendment could have made sense in 18th century. People being armed to save themselves from other Militia or even the Monarchy was kind of acceptable in the 17th and 18th century. Irrespective of the exact year or incident that assured in some form of modern democracy in England, by 1776 and the end of 18th century the tussle between Monarchy and Parliamentary was not still settled in various corners of the World. Guns made sense because it was a continuation of previous traditions and could harm less number of people in short time.

In the 21st century, with the development of weapons it is ridiculous to hang on to the second amendment. The entire thing is now controlled by the arms lobby and lunatics assuming imaginary freedom and liberty. Currently elections are the best form, and that is the only peaceful way to change governments. Armed revolution is dangerous and ridiculous ploy to sell more of these weapons.

International arms trade adds another dimensions to this wretched cycle of destruction.


Oh whatever. At the end of the day, he'll go down as the most embarrassing terrorist in history.

There are "good" targets and embarrassing ones.

He hit up a GAY NIGHTCLUB in some run down locality in ORLANDO, FL. :rotfl:

Conservative white christian america who are waging a crusade on his people could care less about some multi ethnic homosexuals.

Sounds more to me like he was in the closet and had mental issues. Decided to take out his frustrations on his own kind and phone ISIS before the attack.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Karan Dixit » 13 Jun 2016 02:11

IndraD wrote:what are chances of this carnage transferring more votes for Trump, since it has been done by one Omar?


It will be hard to criticize Trump if he decides to revive "Ban Moslems" nara.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby member_22733 » 13 Jun 2016 02:12

In the true spirit of the second amendment, I propose that, in order to overturn a tyrannical GOTUS, if and when it occurs, that every citizen of massa-land be armed with a nuke. Since the GOTUS has access to nukes, there is no other weapon that can give anyone a chance to overturn the government, if and when the need for such a step occurs.

For the mmurica rakshaks from the land of the brave on this board, who are for some reason very thin skinned, here is a disclaimer from moi: /SARC

ramana
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ramana » 13 Jun 2016 02:21

All right enough bantering.
A gruesome tragedy has happened in Orlando Florida where a gunman shot 103 people o whom 50 died and quite a few are in critical condition.
Not time for schadenfreude.
Gunman was on FBI watch list twice 2013 and 2014.
Yet he is security guard with active firearms licence which requires him to keep up his skills.
He beat up his wife and got divorced sometime ago.
He bought his AR-15 class rifle and a handgun last week legally.
CAIR has given statement condemning terrorism and svarted whining about hate crimes against Muslims!
Obama gave some platitudes.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Y. Kanan » 13 Jun 2016 02:30

This incident does vindicate Trump's anti-Muslim stance but will be spun by US democrats to make the Republicans look bad due to their long-standing opposition to gun control.

I hope this helps more Americans wake up to the danger of empowering radical Islam. Actually there is no radical Islam; it's just Islam.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby member_22733 » 13 Jun 2016 02:32

Skilled psychopath with zero empathy for anyone (including himself).

The psycho chose the location and timing well, very noisy, very crowded and by the time people figured out what was going down he had done a lot of damage. Two am is near closing times when the clubs go very loud to get people excited and get them to come back for more.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ramana » 13 Jun 2016 02:39

11 policemen had to fire on him. Was he wearing armor?

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby member_22733 » 13 Jun 2016 02:53

Not sure how it went down (probably will come out later), but seems like they got him to shoot at something while distracted. That marked him and they were able to take him down. The SWAT guys move in large teams and their response are pretty much automatic once the target is identified : which is to fire at the chest/heart area to stop the threat.

He did manage to injure a couple of (non SWAT) cops I believe. I am sure this will be analyzed in great detail in the coming days.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ramana » 13 Jun 2016 03:06


Satya_anveshi
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Satya_anveshi » 13 Jun 2016 03:48

is there anything solid to substantiate Pulse club as 'Gay' club other than as alleged/claimed in news reports?
unable to go their site to see their actual positioning but did not get a feel based on the yelp reviews and other photos of it on net.

May be I am wrong but this part looks smelly

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ArmenT » 13 Jun 2016 06:35

ldev wrote:
Tamang wrote:<quote="ldev">^^
Born in the US to immigrants from Afghanistan. </quote>

Doesn't sound like Afghan name. Definitely from Pak/BD ancestory.


It is possible that his parents are originally Pakistani. Apparently the records indicate immigration/refugees from Afghanistan, but Pakis are known to masquerade as anyone to try and get into the West and have succeeded. The father is apparently Mir Siddique. And the shooter's full name is Omar Saddiqui Mateen

BBC is reporting that the shooter's name used to be Omar Mir Siddique, but he changed it in 2006 to Omar Mir Siddiqui Mateen.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36513468

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ArmenT » 13 Jun 2016 06:43

Satya_anveshi wrote:I am thinking the reference to him being 'private security guard' could mean he is a (blackwater/kalapani type) contractor gone wrong?? yet another fort hood type (and may be even san Bernardino) incident.

Apparently he used to work for G4S security solutions since 2007. Part of that company's business is to provide armed security guards for special events, additional security contracting etc. Company's website shows that they offer 3 grades of security officer. First two grades are ex-military, ex-SF, police academy grads etc., third level is more rent-a-cop variety.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Cosmo_R » 13 Jun 2016 06:50

"Imam, speaking in Orlando just this past April, explaining that gays must be killed to save them from hell – “it’s an act of compassion”. Defending its invitation to have the imam appear at the mosque and pass on his ideas on how to deal with homosexuals: “just get rid of them”, the mosque’s leader said, “we can invite anyone we like; it’s a private event”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqq ... e=youtu.be

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby habal » 13 Jun 2016 07:02

surprising that a semi-automatic in single burst mode can create so many casualties, people can escape after a few shots are fired. Night club owners had locked rear door to prevent people from fleeing without paying cover charges, that may have helped the gunman.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ArmenT » 13 Jun 2016 07:16

^^^
In a crowded area, a single bullet can pass through more than one person. Plus if the exit is narrow, panicked people can't escape that easily.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby CRamS » 13 Jun 2016 07:16

RoyG wrote:
Oh whatever. At the end of the day, he'll go down as the most embarrassing terrorist in history.

There are "good" targets and embarrassing ones.

He hit up a GAY NIGHTCLUB in some run down locality in ORLANDO, FL. :rotfl:

Conservative white christian america who are waging a crusade on his people could care less about some multi ethnic homosexuals.

Sounds more to me like he was in the closet and had mental issues. Decided to take out his frustrations on his own kind and phone ISIS before the attack.


Among all the anal-yses I heard and read on CNN/Fox/NYT/NPR today, nothing will come close to these pithy, succinct, and insightful observations. I mean what a bloody coward to choose a bunch of harmless gays to vent out his hatred. And it is nauseating to see evey d!ck on the aforementioned news outlets go through all kinds of convolutions to link this with Islamic terror. Almost trivializing genuine Islamic terror of the kind India faces at the hands of USA's Paki munnas. In the end, this guy was a psychopath who had easy access to guns and other lethal fire power (note not much discussion about that, easy to talk about his alleged closeness to ISIS), and just vented out his hate against gays. Nothing more than this.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby shiv » 13 Jun 2016 08:10

Lilo wrote:
There is complete lack of police and policing in India(in percapita terms) therefore state backed armed groups like village defence committee s in J&K and Maoist areas are the logical recourse.

Completely OT. India is too big for the generalization made above. There are humongous numbers of civilized Indians with policing that is adequate to prevent the kind of heinous crimes one hears about in Bihar and Naxal infested regions. So one size fits all cannot hold in a society that is so variable in its security and policing.

Having been a gun lover all my life I have some strong views now and forfeited my own licensed right to own a firearm based on my views. I still love guns and shooting.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby disha » 13 Jun 2016 08:15

CRamS wrote:Among all the anal-yses I heard and read on CNN/Fox/NYT/NPR today, nothing will come close to these pithy, succinct, and insightful observations. I mean what a bloody coward to choose a bunch of harmless gays to vent out his hatred. And it is nauseating to see evey d!ck on the aforementioned news outlets go through all kinds of convolutions to link this with Islamic terror. Almost trivializing genuine Islamic terror of the kind India faces at the hands of USA's Paki munnas. In the end, this guy was a psychopath who had easy access to guns and other lethal fire power (note not much discussion about that, easy to talk about his alleged closeness to ISIS), and just vented out his hate against gays. Nothing more than this.


Point is., the bolded statement may be true - however it is Islam that provided the base and the cover for the nutcase. Personally., I think the fault is not of the nutcase., it is of Islam to provide that base and cover and all the #islamocysts like CAIR explaining away that base and cover.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Yagnasri » 13 Jun 2016 08:36

Killing kafirs and gays is required as per Islamic edicts. So he did nothing wrong as per Islam. If fact he did his duty as per Islamic law. So he will go to heaven. Virgins and young boys will be waiting for him there. So problems there for him.

The problem is FBI knows what he was for some time and yet allowed him to run free due to lack of evidence etc. One wonders how hard they looked. It is time for them to spend more time and effort to locate such people and get some serious evidence on them.

Politically, I think HC is now in a serious problem. DT will now attack her mercilessly on Jihad, and she is very vulnerable there now.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby saip » 13 Jun 2016 08:57

It is also possible many of the people who died might have died by Police bullets. What is difficult to understand is why it took 3 hours to kill the gunman.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby habal » 13 Jun 2016 09:14

saip wrote:It is also possible many of the people who died might have died by Police bullets. What is difficult to understand is why it took 3 hours to kill the gunman.


you bet. Was about to post this but I missed it in some humdrum. If you watch the clip shown on CNN of a bystander shooting the moment police storms the nightclub, it is shot in pitch darkness and one can see nothing. But the entry of police is preceeded by a hail of bullets.

that pretty much is reason behind majority of casualties rather than a terrorist with a semi-automatic ar-15 and a handgun and he was holding hostages to boot. The police 'storming' the nightclub would have accounted for most of the casualties among hostages I presume.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Philip » 13 Jun 2016 09:27

This senseless tragedy only underscores what Trump has been saying.How do you spot a jihadi ? The most effective way is to reduce the number of immigrants from Islamic states,especially those with a proven track record of supporting terrorist entities like Pakista,Turkey,etc. IF homegrown Muslims can be so easily turned into terrorists by simply watching ISIS on social media and in Britain by radical imamns measures preaching hatred from the mosques,then pro-active measures must be taken.

After being disappointed with the US's impotence to reign in China on India's NSG membership,Indian media says that Mr.Modi has now lobbied Pres.Putin to weigh in for India as the SCO summit nears. On Latitude last evening,the panelists,a former ambassador and manoj Ji=oshi wondered what this "special defence relationship" with the US actually meant. Non-NATO mil ally is well known,Pres.Bush awarded Pak that status,but compared with what Russia was giving us,N-sub tech,N-subs,BMos,etc.,US items offered would be small beer. Moreover,they said that India's primary interests lie to the West,where in the Persian Gulf region,millions of Indians were working there,sending us valuable forex, the source of most of our petro products too and why was the US deliberately keeping us out of joint exercises in that region and only wanted us to be a card to be used against China?
They also wondered whether the apparent bonhomid between Mr.Modi and O'Bomber would be carried on by the next US administration.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Singha » 13 Jun 2016 09:32

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/or ... tcmp=hpbt1

he was deeply plugged into radical islamist networks in florida and had already been interviewed by FBI and let off for lack of clear evidence. however given the company he kept was only a matter of time ...

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Singha » 13 Jun 2016 09:35

the usual american tradition of laying flowers and posters saying "stop the hate" is in progress.
the hate will never stop no matter what the kufar does to accomodate is lost to the sheeple.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby chetak » 13 Jun 2016 10:33

Singha wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/orlando-gunman-tied-to-radical-imam-released-from-prison-last-year-say-law-enforcement-sources.html?intcmp=hpbt1

he was deeply plugged into radical islamist networks in florida and had already been interviewed by FBI and let off for lack of clear evidence. however given the company he kept was only a matter of time ...


This can't be good for aunty hillary, no??

given her soft approach to islamic terror, it could complicate her presidential bid efforts

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby arun » 13 Jun 2016 10:35

X posting from the Islamism thread the below news story even though it is off topic owing to the multiple posts on the subject of the Orlando, US night club in this thread.

Mohammadden man Omar Mateen claiming allegiance to Mohammadden religion based group Islamic State aka IS aka ISIS attacks nightclub frequented by gays in Orlando in the United States killing 50. CNN reports that “Mateen called 911 during the attack to pledge allegiance to ISIS and mentioned the Boston Marathon bombers, according to a U.S. official.”:

Orlando shooting: 50 killed, shooter pledged ISIS allegiance

NBC corroborates story that Orlando gay nightclub attack was motivated by Mohammadden religion by also linking Mohammadden attacker Omar Mateen to Mohammadden group Islamic State aka ISIS. NBC reports that “Law enforcement sources told NBC News he swore allegiance to the leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, in a phone call to 911 moments before the rampage at Pulse”:

Gunman Omar Mateen Described as Belligerent, Racist and 'Toxic'

Meanwhile US Presidential candidate Donald Trump tweets that the Mohammadden attacker of Orlando nightclub frequented by homosexuals had raised Mohammadden religious slogan of “Allah Hu Akbar” during the attack:

Twitter

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby member_27845 » 13 Jun 2016 10:43

Having been interrogated by the FBI in 2013 , it is surprising that he was able to buy an assault rifle + a gun and didn't set off a red flag

Unless he did so with a fake ID

The FEDs and intelligence agencies dropped the ball on this one

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Yagnasri » 13 Jun 2016 10:45

Cross post from NGO thread.

Yagnasri wrote:FP gang minted a new word "anti pural".

http://www.firstpost.com/world/its-not- ... p_internal

Sicular auties like Pagalika and Burkah are all aunty purals?


In US it will be Hillary, Elizebeth and Huma will be top class Aunty purals. But people may not want to elect them in November. Pity.

What FBI can do if they can not get evidence etc. If they keep people in watch then it will be Islamofobia etc. All said and done even FBI needed to be politically correct na.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby schinnas » 13 Jun 2016 11:02

Cosmo_R wrote:"Imam, speaking in Orlando just this past April, explaining that gays must be killed to save them from hell – “it’s an act of compassion”. Defending its invitation to have the imam appear at the mosque and pass on his ideas on how to deal with homosexuals: “just get rid of them”, the mosque’s leader said, “we can invite anyone we like; it’s a private event”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqq ... e=youtu.be


This (rabid fundamentalistic preachings) should be the crux of the debate in US media. Otherwise, the debate can get distracted with debates on mental health issues of the attacker, etc. Radicalised Islamic view preaches a sort of hateful-compassion against gays and apostates and possibly Kafirs as well. How to deal with it and how to force a reform process in Islam should be the primary focus of discussion in US media.

US can start with banning rabid islamic priests and denying visa to all Islamic preachers and Imams from outside of US to stop any further radicalization of US muslims.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Cosmo_R » 13 Jun 2016 17:31

schinnas wrote:

This (rabid fundamentalistic preachings) should be the crux of the debate in US media. Otherwise, the debate can get distracted with debates on mental health issues of the attacker, etc. Radicalised Islamic view preaches a sort of hateful-compassion against gays and apostates and possibly Kafirs as well. How to deal with it and how to force a reform process in Islam should be the primary focus of discussion in US media.

US can start with banning rabid islamic priests and denying visa to all Islamic preachers and Imams from outside of US to stop any further radicalization of US muslims.


Well it's not going be the center of anything. There is an all out effort to bury such things.

"Several American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) attorneys took to Twitter to blame the “Christian Right” for Sunday’s deadly terrorist attack at a nightclub in Orlando, Fla., which left 50 dead and 53 injured.

Chase Strangio, a staff attorney with the ACLU’s LGBT and AIDS Project, claimed the social and political environment cultivated by Christian conservatives in recent months was to blame for the shooting at Pulse, a nightclub popular with Orlando’s LGBT community."

http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/12/aclu- ... or-attack/

It's a bit like Groucho Marx: "who you gonna believe, me or your lyin' eyes?" :)

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby SwamyG » 13 Jun 2016 17:59

Right Winger 'Islam is the cause"; Left Winger "guns are the cause". Dharmic "both are the cause".

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby IndraD » 13 Jun 2016 18:03

Singha wrote:the usual american tradition of laying flowers and posters saying "stop the hate" is in progress.

OT but does that mean there is scope for a Kejriwal in US also? That laying flower & play card championship looks like AAPtards looking for a leader :mrgreen: !

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby IndraD » 13 Jun 2016 18:15

Seddique Mateen condemns son for nightclub attack and appears to suggest it is for God to enact punishment on gay people

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016 ... -up-to-god

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby nirav » 13 Jun 2016 18:18

IndraD wrote:
Singha wrote:the usual american tradition of laying flowers and posters saying "stop the hate" is in progress.

OT but does that mean there is scope for a Kejriwal in US also? That laying flower & play card championship looks like AAPtards looking for a leader :mrgreen: !
Bhai jocks mat maaro .. :rotfl:

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby vera_k » 13 Jun 2016 18:27

VijayR wrote:Having been interrogated by the FBI in 2013 , it is surprising that he was able to buy an assault rifle + a gun and didn't set off a red flag

Unless he did so with a fake ID

The FEDs and intelligence agencies dropped the ball on this one


No fake id is needed. Terrorists can buy guns legally under current law.

Terrorist watchlist no bar

"Membership in a terrorist organization does not prohibit a person from possessing firearms or explosives under current federal law," the Government Accountability Office also reported in 2010.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Hari Seldon » 13 Jun 2016 18:28

^Pls x-post in the 'bositive noose' dhaga as well.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Lilo » 13 Jun 2016 19:53

SwamyG wrote:Right Winger 'Islam is the cause"; Left Winger "guns are the cause". Dharmic "both are the cause".

Chankian and not navel gazing type Dharmic : Agrees with RW and says Islam is the cause,Guns are not the issue.Trump for president. :mrgreen:

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby member_27845 » 13 Jun 2016 19:56

vera_k wrote:
VijayR wrote:Having been interrogated by the FBI in 2013 , it is surprising that he was able to buy an assault rifle + a gun and didn't set off a red flag

Unless he did so with a fake ID

The FEDs and intelligence agencies dropped the ball on this one


No fake id is needed. Terrorists can buy guns legally under current law.

Terrorist watchlist no bar

"Membership in a terrorist organization does not prohibit a person from possessing firearms or explosives under current federal law," the Government Accountability Office also reported in 2010.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
^^^^^^

I'm just saying that it did not set off an alarm when he went and bought those guns

So there is a lacuna in their monitoring algorithms

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ShauryaT » 13 Jun 2016 20:07

Loved the way G.Parthasarathy spoke.


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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ramana » 13 Jun 2016 20:08

Some of our members were invited to be there in the above seminar. Don't know if they attended.


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