Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10, 2015

[partha]

Ajit Doval's full speech at SASTRA on DailyMotion:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2njwui

Edit: uploaded by "Daily Mail", supposedly an ISI propaganda publication

[SSridhar]

So a muslim sacks a city where the ruling entity were muslims and that marked a huge strategic failure of Muslim power in India and suddenly Islam was in danger?

The general belief is that it was Sheikh Sirhindi (a Naqshbandi Sufi) of Delhi (again early 17th century) who sowed the seeds of separatism. Those who believe that Sufis are very mild must read the following chilling exposition from Sheikh Ahmed Sirhindi.

He ensured that the ijtihad of Akbar did not allow the influence of Hinduism on Islam.His time coincided with that of Jehangir. Shaikh Ahmad had decreed that the Shiites were apostates and had to be put to the sword. and Jehangir’s grandson Aurangzeb was greatly influenced by Sirhindi. Many credit Sirhindi for having introduced communalism tht led to the creation of Pakistan three centuries later. He reportedly praised cow-slaughter in India as a great Islamic act. He admired the assassination of the Fifth Sikh Guru, Guru Arjan Dev as a great act. He said, “Kufr and Islam are opposed to each other. The progress of one is possible only at the expense of the other and co-exstence between these two contradictory faiths is unthinkable. The honour of Islam lies in insulting kufr and kafirs. One who respects kafirs dishonours Muslims. To respect them does not merely mean honouring them and assigning them a seat of honour in any assembly, but it also implies keeping company with them or showing considerations to them. They should be kept at an arm’ length like dogs. If some worldly business cannot be performed without them, in that case only a minimum of contact should be established with them but without taking them into confidence. The highest Islamic sentiment asserts that it is better to forego that worldly business and that no relationship should be established with the kafirs. The real purpose of levying jizya on them is to humiliate them to such an extent that on account of fear of jizya they may not be able to dress well and live in grandeur. They should constantly remain terrified and trembling. It is intended to hold them under contempt and to uphold the honour and might of Islam. Cow-sacrifice in India is one of the noblest of Islamic practices. The kafirs may probably agree to pay jizya but they shall never concede to cow-sacrifice. The execution of the accursed kafir of Gobindwal is an important achievement and is the cause of great defeat of accursed Hindus. Whatever might have been the motive behind the execution, the dishonor of the kafirs is an act of highest grace for the Muslims. Before the execution of the kafirs, I had seen in a vision that the Emperor had destroyed the crown of the head of Shirk. Verily, he was the chief of the Mushriks and the leader of the kafirs”.

One of his descendants is Sibghatullah Mujadiddi, Afghanistan's first president chosen by the mujahideen in exile in Peshawar in 1989. In Pakistan, there is one particular terororist group, Tanzeem-al-Ikhwan run by Maulana Akram Awan in Chakwal, that is based strictly on Sirhindi’s teachings. This particular tanzeem has close Army connections. By the way haqqanis are also Naqshbandi Sufis !

Sirhindi's words were echoed by Jinnah when he told Mahatma Gandhi ‘We are a nation with our own distinctive culture and civilization, language and literature, art and architecture, names and nomenclature, sense of value and proportions, legal laws and moral codes, customs and calendar, history and tradition, aptitudes and ambitions, in short we have our own distinctive outlook on life and of life. By all canons of International Law we are a nation’.

Now, it is clear how Sirhindi influenced after three centuries the course of events in Hindustan.

[A_Gupta]

Doval at Sastra: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2njwui

[A_Gupta]

The specific idea that MJ Akbar blames is "Islam in danger", which he attributes to Shah Waliullah.

One can find many strands leading to the present denouement, there is a long political history behind it.
Point is that we did not blunder into it, at least not in a small, discrete set of errors.

PS: If Islam khatre mein nahin hai, the two-nation-theory wouldn't gain much appeal, because everyone was used to diversity.

[Paul]

Ishar Dar is the FIL of Shahbaz Sharif's daughter.

[A_Gupta]

The consideration of economic consequences in this context, was introduced in a post by Ekalavya, who wrote that the leadership of India would have to make the decision of whether the economic costs were worth it.

Now, with what little economics I know, to the extent war costs are incurred in rupees, it might even provide a Keynesian boost to the economy. The foreign exchange component of military assets is another matter. But perhaps the main impact is via the foreign investment that PM Modi requires for his economic plans.

[A_Gupta]

I'd also say that if the top Indian leadership does not have an accurate intelligence assessment of Pakistan's nuclear capabilities and likewise its red-lines, then India is in a world of trouble anyway. Unlike us on BRF, they should not have to guess.

[A_Gupta]

A SAAG paper on Waliullah: http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/paper629

[Peregrine]

Ajit Doval's full speech at SASTRA on DailyMotion:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2njwui

Edit: uploaded by "Daily Mail", supposedly an ISI propaganda publication

Doval at Sastra: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2njwui

partha Ji & A_Gupta Ji :

Many, many thanks for the Link.

Cheers

[SSridhar]

A SAAG paper on Waliullah: http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/paper629

That's an excellent paper. thanks for posting.

[Falijee]

Altaf Bhai Fights Back - Demands UN intervention In Karachi

Altaf asks workers to demand UN, White House, NATO for troops in Karachi

DALLAS: Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) Chief Altaf Hussain has asked his party workers to stage protests in front of United Nations, White House and NATO and raise a demand for sending their troops to Karachi.

Altaf Hussain was addressing MQM’s Annual Convention in the[*] US city of Dallas via telephone.

[*] The Paki administration, it appears, have pressured the media not to carry his live broadcasts from Londonistan

Altaf said, India itself is a coward country, if it had some honor it would not have allowed 'bloodshed of Mohajirs' on Pakistani soil. He reiterated the demand for a separate province for Mohajirs.

Has he not already been designated as an RAA agent

He dismissed money laundering charges and said all the bank accounts in London had been frozen and the party members were dealing with a difficult situation there.

Interesting times ahead

[Ashok Sarraff]

The problem with MJ Akbar's (as apparent in his talk) is that he continues to see the repeated Islamic invasions of India in neutral, if not positive, tone. He like, Javed Akhtar and Tarek Fateh, still harps about the alleged "syncretic, Ganga-Jamuni" culture. This view completely negates the violent insertion of Islam into India and somehow conveys that things were complelty hunky-dory for the Hindus till Jinnah's demand for partition. In this view, Islamic invasions were seemingly legimate, if not necessary, just like the the British Invasion was for the seculars like MMS. While this Islamic Ganga-Jamuni view is somewhat less hostile than the JeM idea of hoisting the Islamic flag on the Red Fort by blowing up the country, it still romanticizes Arabic Islam and the Islamic rule over India. In my view, this allegedly peaceful Ganga-Jamuni notion is only different form of Sufiism, that we know acted as gentler agents of Islamism.

True progress will be made when we hear MJ Akbar and his ilk saying that Islam was a violent invading force that brought untold misery to India and that it should be repulsed back to the place from where it arose. Till this realization occurs, the idea of Pakistan will continue to exist even if the current state of Pakistan is broken into thousand pieces.

[Falijee]

Pak Backing Out Of NSA Meeting?

ISLAMABAD: New Delhi has suggested August 23–24 as proposed dates for a meeting in New Delhi between Pakistan's National Security Adviser Sartaj Aziz and his Indian counterpart Ajit Doval.

Pakistan has so far not confirmed any dates[*] [/b]for the NSA-level meeting, but Foreign Office is expected to formally reply to the Indian proposal by the second week of August.

[*] Interesting to see if agenda items can be agreed upon [/b]

[Hari Seldon]

>>Tarek Fatah ‏@TarekFatah Jul 29
After the Water Car, Pakistan's extraordinary scientist #AQKhan makes fighter camel-jets for GhazwaHind.

[RamaY]

The problem with MJ Akbar's (as apparent in his talk) is that he continues to see the repeated Islamic invasions of India in neutral, if not positive, tone. He like, Javed Akhtar and Tarek Fateh, still harps about the alleged "syncretic, Ganga-Jamuni" culture. This view completely negates the violent insertion of Islam into India and somehow conveys that things were complelty hunky-dory for the Hindus till Jinnah's demand for partition. In this view, Islamic invasions were seemingly legimate, if not necessary, just like the the British Invasion was for the seculars like MMS. While this Islamic Ganga-Jamuni view is somewhat less hostile than the JeM idea of hoisting the Islamic flag on the Red Fort by blowing up the country, it still romanticizes Arabic Islam and the Islamic rule over India. In my view, this allegedly peaceful Ganga-Jamuni notion is only different form of Sufiism, that we know acted as gentler agents of Islamism.

True progress will be made when we hear MJ Akbar and his ilk saying that Islam was a violent invading force that brought untold misery to India and that it should be repulsed back to the place from where it arose. Till this realization occurs, the idea of Pakistan will continue to exist even if the current state of Pakistan is broken into thousand pieces.

Long time ago that Secular Indian guy had a interesting debate with another Muslim from Africa and raised these very questions.

It went like this...

Are the various Islamic Invaders into Indian sub-continent are true representatives of Islam? If the answer is Yes, then we must accept that genociders like Khilzi, Ghazni, Ghouri, Babar, Akbar, Tuglaq represent Islam thus making Islam inherently genocidal & colonial.

If the answer is no, then 99% of Muslims are forced into Islam in a wrong way and hence wrong Muslims. This wrong Islam should leave Indian sub-continent first so real Islam can interact and enter Indian sub-continent thru peace and love.

Don't remember how that debate ended.

[CRamS]

Pakistan has so far not confirmed any dates[*] [/b]for the NSA-level meeting, but Foreign Office is expected to formally reply to the Indian proposal by the second week of August.

[*] Interesting to see if agenda items can be agreed upon [/b]

You know it, I know it, TSP knows, its 3.5 know it, Doval knows it, ModiJi knows; except maybe "secularist" gullible Indians; that these so called talks are a bloody farce, a sham, and complete waste of time; unless of course, India agrees to make concessions to TSP that it and its 3.5 demand.

India wants to put TSP on the dock on terror, while TSP wants these very same talks to somehow obfuscate, confuse, chaosticize (sorry for inventing a new Eng word, the verb form of chaos ) its role in terror and talk about everything else that it thinks it has an advantage over India (Kashmir for a start); and above all, shoe-horn and establish a parity with India that it has legitimate grouses that India must address for the sake of "piss". (And in this objective, whether or not TSP is correct, it does have its 3.5 wholly and squarely on its side for whom TSP's core objective of undoing India is no skin off their back. Add that to TSP's own 5th column in India, and the circle is complete. ModiJi is entering into dangerous territory, maybe he knows it, but doesn't have a choice given India's overall power limitations).

[Peregrine]

PM Nawaz narrowly escapes attack in Islamabad

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif narrowly escaped an attack on his convoy Sunday night while en route to Islamabad.

According to sources in the PM House, the prime minister, along with his family, was travelling to the capital when another car tried to overtake the convoy and hit his car.

The car was immediately forced to pull over and the driver was taken into custody, sources said, adding that the car had a fake number plate. Sources said the prime minister is safe.

The incident was also reported by Radio Pakistan.

The suspect is being interrogated by security officials.

A government official told AFP the man claimed to be a retired air commodore from the Pakistan Air Force and was travelling with his own family in a white land cruiser.

“He is in custody of the Prime Minister’s security team and his vehicle has also been impounded,” he said.

The official said that the incident took place a few kilometres outside the capital Islamabad.

Following the death of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi leader Malik Ishaq in a police encounter earlier this week, police officials and security experts fear the banned outfit and other terrorist groups affiliated with it may avenge the killing.

Cheers

[Vayutuvan]

>>Tarek Fatah ‏@TarekFatah Jul 29
After the Water Car, Pakistan's extraordinary scientist #AQKhan makes fighter camel-jets for GhazwaHind.

[img...]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLEYftoUMAAcFyt.jpg:large[/img]

Couple that with what one mullah says about muslim women should provide sex even while riding camel - interesting possibilities for 72 seekers.

[ramana]

A SAAG paper on Waliullah: http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/paper629

Very old paper. When saag was SAAG.

[SSridhar]

PM Nawaz narrowly escapes attack in Islamabad
. . . that the car had a fake number plate.

LeJ/HuJI terrorists tried to ram Pres. Musharraf's car with huge explosives at the height of his Presidency! What a fall! Where has that spirit gone?

[shiv]

Sridhar, correct me if I am wrong. I thought LeJ survived in Pakjab because of support from the Sharif family (Shabaz?) Do you think Sharif was involved in killing that guy? Is it LeJ targeting Nawaz Sharif

[RCase]

PM Nawaz narrowly escapes attack in Islamabad
. . . that the car had a fake number plate.

LeJ/HuJI terrorists tried to ram Pres. Musharraf's car with huge explosives at the height of his Presidency! What a fall! Where has that spirit gone?

A car with no explosive power, a TFTA Air Commodore of the Fizzalya with no soosai vest - this story is a fizzle. I think it is just a case of a TFTA fauji showing off his brashness of overtaking the convoy of the damn civilian PM, just like his compatriot claimed shooting down 6 planes in a minute in a dog fight.

There was no sunroof lever too. Nah, NS did not narrowly escape an attack. This is just a case of Banjabi mardangi on display.

[arun]

From the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, a fine example of using belligerence to make abject begging palatable to oneself not to mention a fine example of an exaggerated sense of entitlement . Display of these arts by head of Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM), Altaf Hussain:

................. The MQM chief also called India a cowardly nation for “allowing the bloodshed of the Mohajirs” in Pakistan. He said India would have intervened on the community’s behalf if it had “a little sense of honour”. .................

From Express Tribune:

Karachi situation: Altaf urges supporters to petition UN, Nato for troops

[SSridhar]

Sridhar, correct me if I am wrong. I thought LeJ survived in Pakjab because of support from the Sharif family (Shabaz?) Do you think Sharif was involved in killing that guy? Is it LeJ targeting Nawaz Sharif

You are quite right Shiv about the deep connection between the Sharifs and the LeJ (or for that matter all Punjab-based Sunni terrorist organizations). Of course, there is a deep connection between all terrorist tanzeems and the Punjab High Court too. Not for nothing has it earned the sobriquet, 'terrorist-pasand'. That too helped Malik Ishaque as he was released in case after case.

For Shabaz Sharif, the existence of the tanzeems and encouragement given to them even through state funding etc are all right provided they did not indulge in terrorism within the state. Remember his pleading with them, tears welling up in his eyes after an attack, "I am with you, and therefore do not attack Punjab"? This was his problem with Ishaque.

In the case of LeJ's Malik Ishaque, Shabaz Sharif asked the ASWJ (nee SSP) chief Maulana Mohammed Amed Ludhianvi to negotiate a secret deal with him to lie low after he is released. He agreed to that and the very 'principled' Chief Justice of Pakistan Iftikar Chaudhry released him citing, what else, lack of evidence ! There were 44 cases against him at one point of time. He was set free in July 2011 but as per the secret deal, he was put under 'house arrest' by the Punjab police. When a journalist asked him what he intended to do now, he replied with all sincerity that he would continue the "good work" that he was always doing. The 'house arrest' was only in name because he was freely moving about otherwise with impunity, just as Hafeez Saeed did after he too was put under 'house arrest'. Then, the Punjab government extended the 'house arrest' at which time, the Lahore High Court's Review Board intervened and set him free in January 2012. As usual, the Punjab Government paid stipend to the detenue during the 'house arrest'. Just two days prior to his release, there was a blast at Khanpur killing two dozen Shias, orchestrated by LeJ in anticipation of the freedom of Malik Ishaque. The Punjab Government implicated Malik Ishaque in that case and filed an FIR and arrested him. He was released again towards end-2012 and he re-started his 'good work' immediately by killing 200 Shias in Quetta in late February 2013. As there was enough evidence (the LeJ accepted that) and as anger arose among the Shias, Ishaque was once again arrested in late Feb 2013. He was finally released in December 2014, surprisingly after the government decided to deal firmly with all terror tanzeems following the Peshawar Army School massacre. He was again taken into custody on July 24, 2015 by Counter Terrorism officers of the Punjab police. We have to wait to know if the State had come to the conclusion that he would only cause more problems for the Shariffs and decided to bump him off, his two sons and the entire top leadership of LeJ or it was a real encounter. The latter looks less likely for me given the fact that Malik Ishaque had been arrested countless times and one more arrest would not have made any difference. After all, he had all the amenities available to him even under arrest. I therefore conclude that Shahbaz Sharif decided to eliminate him.

The PA may be slightly handicapped by ishaque's elimination because it was using his cadres as the 'first line' in Balochistan after the Supreme Court came down heavily on the Army for the disappearance of thousands of Balochis. I guess that these cadres would now be merged with some other tanzeem or become part of the ISI-sponsored AQIS. They have to 'take care' of these orphans as otherwise they would join the IS !

[Kashi]

Sridharji, an insightful analysis as always. I do not have the depth of understanding on all things Paki as you and Hakim sa'ab among others, but from my limited perception on things, I have felt that the Paki deep state are happy to "absorb" some "collateral damage" (some being an operative word since it can range from few "infidels" killed to entire towns flattened) as long as the entities are willing to do their bidding wholeheartedly.

As you pointed out that LeJ has been a "frontline ally" (I do love the AmirKhan's choice of words) of the establishment against a myriad of opposition- the Baloch, the Gilgitis and Balwaristanis, the Iran-backed tanzeem and thus, they have allowed LeJ to run amok against those who may not have been considered posing a significant threat (Hazras for instance).

The question is that why would they sacrifice and risk alienating a Pakjab based tanzeem with a significant armed posse? There was hardly any international pressure calling for LeJ to be curtailed (hardly any when compared to actions against Afghan Taliban or LeT). There was little to suggest any significant fall out between LeJ and the establishment. It's not that the sunni-infested establishment has suddenly developed bhaichaara for Iran and all things Shia. LeJ was and may still remain a valuable tool against the "upstarts" in Sindh, Balochistan and KP that may dare to challenge the Pakjabi hegemony.

Do the two Sharifs actually have the testicular fortitude to go so brazenly against the establishment in this manner? They would recall the attacks that were unleashed against Musharraf when he took on the Taliban and LeT and the Baloch. The Sharifs (and their families) are even more vulnerable against a Pakajb-based tanzeem.

I have not come across the names of the "policemen" involved in this "encounter", but could it be that some of them were Shia, who took it upon themselves to avenge the deaths of their humnawaaz knowing fully well that the state would never do so?

[schinnas]

Are the various Islamic Invaders into Indian sub-continent are true representatives of Islam? If the answer is Yes, then we must accept that genociders like Khilzi, Ghazni, Ghouri, Babar, Akbar, Tuglaq represent Islam thus making Islam inherently genocidal & colonial.

If the answer is no, then 99% of Muslims are forced into Islam in a wrong way and hence wrong Muslims. This wrong Islam should leave Indian sub-continent first so real Islam can interact and enter Indian sub-continent thru peace and love.

Don't remember how that debate ended.

The spread of Islam in India is not all due to violence. Many converted voluntarily inspired by genuine Islamic mystics and Sufi saints. Many areas that never had Islamic rule in India, for example, parts of western and southern TN has sizable muslim population that converted out of their own free will due to true islamic gnanis. To totally deny their existence is to believe in pretend history. These saints did practice a very mystical form of Islam that was non fanatical and were often prosecuted by fanatic muslim rules. You might have heard the story of Mansoor Al Hallaj shouting Anal-haq (I am That / Truth) in meditative ecstacy and killed because of that "blashphemy". Anal-Haq is almost the same as Aham Brahmashmi or Tat-Tvam-Asi. The mystical, experience based religion of these fakirs resonated with Indians long used to following Enlightented Siddhas and Sanyasi's with their own unique paths.
It is a tragedy that Sufi path also had its own share of fanatics and in the end lost its true mysticism. I do no think that some suggestions made in the forum quoting one or two Sufi fanatics to paint whole of sufism as fanatical is correct.

An unbiased, fact based research is needed to understand how many Indians became muslims through violence, vs through peaceful means. How nearly all of them became fanatics and slowly abandoned the culture and tradition of their ancestors is another wonder. Understanding these two critical areas without superficial condemnation or conclusions would be necessary to find peaceful and long term solution to resolving fanaticism of sub continental muslims.

[SSridhar]

Kashi, at this point I can only guess. It is too early to come to a conclusion. I could be widely off-mark too.

See, LeJ is violently anti-Shia. So is IS, but not Al Qaeda or LeT. The Pakistani Establishment might have suspected that there is a likelihood of collusion between IS & LeJ. After all, The Establishment is scared of IS. So, it went into a decapitation first strike against them. Purely guess work with nothing to substantiate it. Take it FWIW.

[Kashi]

SSji, you are right, it's too early to tell. Who knows what churning is going inside the establishment. Interesting times ahead.

I do wonder though, if the Gurdaspur terror attack was an attempt to kill two birds with the same stone- test Narendra Modi's resolve and blunt any potential backlash from LeJ and affiliated tanzeems, since any attempt on their part can be easily be blamed as a Indian response to Gurdaspur via proxies- easy for the fauj to go after them.

The timing is quite close to be completely coincidental.

[Baikul]

I may have missed what's happening on the ground, but as a general BR reader it seems to me that, MQM shenanigans aside, in the past few weeks or even months there seems to be a perceptible lowering of 'incidents', strife and general f@ckery that so characterised b'loved Paa'stan. There used to be a time not very far back that one could almost guarantee reading about some green on green bloodbath every time one came to this dhaaga. Now it seems everything had gone quiet (er).

It could be just my erroneous perception. But if not, I have to ask- what's going on over there? Has Pakfauj managed to shut the lid down or is this a temporary phenomenon? Is Gurdaspur partly a fallout of the generals feeling their oats?

[chetak]

Are the various Islamic Invaders into Indian sub-continent are true representatives of Islam? If the answer is Yes, then we must accept that genociders like Khilzi, Ghazni, Ghouri, Babar, Akbar, Tuglaq represent Islam thus making Islam inherently genocidal & colonial.

If the answer is no, then 99% of Muslims are forced into Islam in a wrong way and hence wrong Muslims. This wrong Islam should leave Indian sub-continent first so real Islam can interact and enter Indian sub-continent thru peace and love.

Don't remember how that debate ended.

The spread of Islam in India is not all due to violence. Many converted voluntarily inspired by genuine Islamic mystics and Sufi saints. Many areas that never had Islamic rule in India, for example, parts of western and southern TN has sizable muslim population that converted out of their own free will due to true islamic gnanis. To totally deny their existence is to believe in pretend history. These saints did practice a very mystical form of Islam that was non fanatical and were often prosecuted by fanatic muslim rules. You might have heard the story of Mansoor Al Hallaj shouting Anal-haq (I am That / Truth) in meditative ecstacy and killed because of that "blashphemy". Anal-Haq is almost the same as Aham Brahmashmi or Tat-Tvam-Asi. The mystical, experience based religion of these fakirs resonated with Indians long used to following Enlightented Siddhas and Sanyasi's with their own unique paths.
It is a tragedy that Sufi path also had its own share of fanatics and in the end lost its true mysticism. I do no think that some suggestions made in the forum quoting one or two Sufi fanatics to paint whole of sufism as fanatical is correct.

An unbiased, fact based research is needed to understand how many Indians became muslims through violence, vs through peaceful means. How nearly all of them became fanatics and slowly abandoned the culture and tradition of their ancestors is another wonder. Understanding these two critical areas without superficial condemnation or conclusions would be necessary to find peaceful and long term solution to resolving fanaticism of sub continental muslims.

not all sufi are non violent peaceful types!

many sufi actually act as advance troops to get the lay of the land and lull the local populace into confidence before the islamic hordes swoop down on them and massacre all in their path, looting and taking women and children as slaves.

Salafi Violence and Sufi Tolerance? Rethinking Conventional Wisdom

by Mark Woodward, Muhammad Sani Umar, Inayah Rohmaniyah, and Mariani Yahya

Abstract

It is often assumed that there is a strong correlation, if not a causal relationship between varieties of Muslim thought and violent tendencies. Salafism is often associated with intolerance and violence and Sufism with tolerance and nonviolence. In this article we demonstrate that these assumptions are baseless. Based on analysis of historical and contemporary cases from Southeast Asia and West Africa, we show that there is no significant correlation between theology and violent tendencies. Some violent groups are Sufi and others Salafi, while some non-violent groups are Salafi, others Sufi. Policy makers are therefore ill-advised to use theological orientation as a factor in assessing the violent potential of Muslim movements and organisations.

Keywords: Sufism, Salafism, violence, West Africa, Southeast Asia

[shiv]

The spread of Islam in India is not all due to violence.

I wish to make a point in this regard:

I have 23 children. Not all were conceived by my raping women. I am legally wedded to wives who begat 12 of my children. Whenever anyone accuses me of rape and the illegitimate children I had I need to pipe up and remind them of all my happy marriages and my children born in holy wedlock. I need to be let off and praised for that rather than be constantly pestered and reminded about bad things

[Shreeman]

One would ask why those who are questioning the narrative of peaceful conversion of the relijion-e-pieces are alone in their opinion?

You plant a sapling, with a kataar, and there is totally a forest in the place after 600 years. A sea of greener than green. Those who kweschen whether martial practices were necessary are ignoring that the dalits were already under the heavy wheel of the caste system. Suffering. The hindus were all out of land, with even kings forced to pray in small dark places. They had only rice to eat. Would you need to force such a people? I mean, force much? They were shown the gilory of the one green lord, by demolishing a dark cave here and a statue there. And readily they built new buildings celebrating their release, all on their own. A few women did indeed change hands, but then dont women change hands between the converted? I mean even young wimmens? Total girls? It is better than performing saati after a death. And they begat, and begat, and begat. Thus their was a forest. Of green.

Where is the bad thing in this. Stop commulanizing the renaissance in the mislum subcontinent. Without which there would be no bakistan. And on august 14,1947 bakistan like all the begetting, begot hindoosthan. There would not be a hindoosthan without the begetting.

So disturb not the harmony-e-communal for if there had not spread the sea of green east to west and north to south, would not there be a hanudisthan to practice your ceremonial eating of rice. Sure, after the ghazwa, we might change the flag a little bit.

But until then, be thankful, of the vast open spaces ceded piecefully so you may enjoy being small, and dark, dont forget the dark, and also rice be eating.

Stop scheming, or sending the refuse west by land, sea, or air. In particular, control that chankian fella, for it is our ghazwa and our behind. Cast not any aspersions on it. So there!

[jash_p]

can anybody post Fair baby's latest on terrorist attack on Punjab ?

[Gagan]

Another of Pakistani canards is about to be demolished in the NSA talks - the Samjhauta express blast case.
NSA doval will bring up the issue of LET's hand in killing Pakistanis and Indians on Indian soil.
The pakis know this, their prop-e-gandu is going to bite them in their butt, with a full media circus, and the BJP not mincing any words.

No wonder the enthusiasm for these talks is waning in Slum-abad

[williams]

Another of Pakistani canards is about to be demolished in the NSA talks - the Samjhauta express blast case.
NSA doval will bring up the issue of LET's hand in killing Pakistanis and Indians on Indian soil.
The pakis know this, their prop-e-gandu is going to bite them in their butt, with a full media circus, and the BJP not mincing any words.

No wonder the enthusiasm for these talks is waning in Slum-abad

Knowing Doval Ji, I don't think there will be any chai bikoot circus. I am expecting a direct reading of riot act with active elements of follow up consequences already in place. If there is no cooperation from the other side silent punishing devastation will follow. I know Namo Ji has sanctioned such policy already and if the Pakis do not understand it, it is their loss. Don't expect such policies to be published in MSM that will only propagate nauseating debates.

[chetak]

Another of Pakistani canards is about to be demolished in the NSA talks - the Samjhauta express blast case.
NSA doval will bring up the issue of LET's hand in killing Pakistanis and Indians on Indian soil.
The pakis know this, their prop-e-gandu is going to bite them in their butt, with a full media circus, and the BJP not mincing any words.

No wonder the enthusiasm for these talks is waning in Slum-abad

they should keep the press out and stop the pakis from manipulating the presstitutes, male and female, in the Indian press. The pakis are past masters at this and have deep connections in the Indian press and above all, no joint statement of any sort.

[chetak]

can anybody post Fair baby's latest on terrorist attack on Punjab ?

Christine Fair ‏@CChristineFair 24h24 hours ago
Gurdaspur attack: India can't afford a tepid response - The Economic Times on Mobile http://www.ecoti.ms/5g_lJY

Read the article.

[Falijee]

Former Dir Gen , Paki F.I.A Plea For Honest Investigation Into 26/11 Mumbai Attack Falls On Deaf Ears

THE Mumbai terror attacks were claimed by India to be its 9/11. For more than 66 hours, 10 highly trained militants played havoc in India’s commercial metropolis, spraying bullets and shedding the blood of innocent civilians and tourists in November 2008, bringing the two nuclear neighbours to the brink of an all-out war.

Pakistan has to deal with the Mumbai mayhem, planned and launched from its soil. This requires facing the truth and admitting mistakes. The entire state security apparatus must ensure that the perpetrators and masterminds of the ghastly terror attacks are brought to justice. [*][/b]The case has lingered on for far too long. Dilatory tactics by the defendants, frequent change of trial judges, and assassination of the case prosecutor as well as retracting from original testimony by some key witnesses have been serious setbacks for the prosecutors. However, cognizance was taken by the Islamabad High Court which directed the trial to be concluded within two months.

[*] Fine words, this khayali Pulao, but Deep State is not listening to this " nonsense" from the ex in-charge of the B.B. murder case !

After an exchange of multiple investigation dossiers with the Indian police authorities, the trial court was requested to give approval to obtain voice samples of the alleged commander and his deputies for comparison with the recorded voices. The court ruled that the consent of the accused should be obtained. Obviously, the suspects refused. Then a plea was submitted before the sessions court to authorise the investigators to take the voice samples despite the lack of consent. The plea was denied on account of there being no such provision in the Evidence Act or the antiterrorism law applicable at that time. [*][/b]The investigators then went in appeal before the High Court. That appeal, I believe, is still pending. The Fair Trial Act, 2013 caters for admissibility of such technical evidence. However, its application with retrospective effect is a moot point.

[*] Fine words again , this khayali Pulao, but Deep State is not listening to this " nonsense" from the ex in-charge of the B.B. murder case !

Are we as a nation prepared to muster the courage to face uncomfortable truths[*][/b] and combat the demons of militancy that haunt our land? That is the question!

[*] Fine words again , this khayali Pulao, but Deep State is not listening to this " nonsense" from the ex in-charge of the B.B. murder case !

[arun]

X Posted from the Islamism thread.

Journalist Minhaz Merchant pillories attempts to provide a burqa to Mohammadden Terrorism by creating false equivalence titles such as Hindu Terrorism:

Bottom line: Terror truly has no religion. LTTE terrorists in Sri Lanka were Hindus. Irgun terrorists in Israel were Jews. Red Army Faction terrorists in Germany were Christians. The difference lies in degree and scale. Islamist terror is a global scourge. The others are or were local. Treating them on par is blinding oneself to reality.

From Daily O at the below link:

Busting Hindu terror and other myths : The attempt to seek equivalence between Islamist and saffron terror is as fraudulent as Pakistan's constant bid to achieve 'terror-equivalence' with India.

[chetak]

absolute lunatics. comes of deep in breeding and effing their squint eyed cousins.

LDUR??? even their surface railways don't work.

WTF are railway passengers going to do with access to the bay of bengal?? make paper boats??

India is going to keep quiet while the pakis are merrily digging away under Indian territory?? Just like we own the airspace, we also own the space underneath our land, no??

Pakistan Defence ‏@pk_defence Jul 30
Indians have Pakistani ancestry. But their false education system has always hidden this fact.
32 retweets 11 favorites

Pakistan Defence ‏@pk_defence Jul 31
A lot of Indians abroad when asked about their nationality say that they are Pakistanis.This is to avoid embarrassment.
4:52 AM - 31 Jul 2015 ·

Pakistan Defence ‏@pk_defence 10h10 hours ago
Pakistan must get its share of the Kohinoor.They should cut it half if required. Giving it entirely to India is not acceptable.
0 retweets 2 favorites

Pakistan Defence ‏@pk_defence 10h10 hours ago
Shocked to see Britain thinking of Giving Kohinoor Diamond to India without considering Pakistan.Its our property too.
2 retweets 5 favorites

Pakistan Defence ‏@pk_defence 24h24 hours ago
In 1971India denied us airspace. We had to travel more than 5000 kms circling india to reach east Pakistan. LDUR will solve that purpose.
2 retweets 6 favorites

Gen Hameed Gul ‏@GenHameedGul 20h20 hours ago
Lahore Dhaka Underground Railways (LDUR) will ensure continuous Islamic land from Morocco in West to Bangladesh in East .#LDUR


Pakistan Defence ‏@pk_defence 24h24 hours ago
Connecting Lahore to Dhaka via under ground railway/ roadways will give Pakistan access to 1: Bay of Bengal 2: ASEAN countries.